Good Lord Boeing

[HotRod82]

Looks like a job for Flex Seal
Phil Swift for quality control! View attachment 1348663 View attachment 1348664

My duct tape is only rated for 200mph.......I wonder where Boeing gets theirs?

 

[hallett21]

It's required. A flight crew member does the walk before they enter the cockpit and passengers board.

That’s only upon initial start up though right? On flights like Phoenix to LAX and back are the crews just letting people on/off and going again?

 

[86403]

That’s only upon initial start up though right? On flights like Phoenix to LAX and back are the crews just letting people on/off and going again?

Nope. Every flight.

 

[hallett21]

Nope. Every flight.

So after they wave to the last passenger they go outside and do their walk?

 

[86403]

So after they wave to the last passenger they go outside and do their walk?

Anytime before the next departure.

 

[Orange Juice]

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

View attachment 1348748

Should be dressed warmer and have an O2 bottle should the door pop at cruising altitude.

 

[hallett21]

Should be dressed warmer and have an O2 bottle should the door pop at cruising altitude.

Take a big gulp of air and cowboy up for a minute or 2

 

[4Waters]

Take a big gulp of air and cowboy up for a minute or 2

That's what she said

 

[FreeBird236]

That's what she said

If you gota hold your breath, you should probably have her wash it.

 

[WYRD]

I find this ('technical even') extremely difficult to believe.

Im going to stick my neck out and say the crew did something like bumping the columns etc -- and there's a bunch of ass coveriing going on.

EDIT:
Looks like a big possibility of operator - (pilot or flight attendant) error.

There's even a name for this.

Looks like someone may have been getting some air head

 

[MeCasa16]

This thread is pure entertainment..

 

[DaveH]

all these F*&^ ups and yet this morning i saw an interesting stat. 2023 was the safest year in aviation history, not ONE death WORLDWIDE from a major airline crash incident. think about how many commercial flights there are in a single day.

maybe all this press is because Boeing is donating to Trump or something? or the damn media just needs to sensationalize everything to keep us glued to them. i dunno.

 

[lbhsbz]

all these F*&^ ups and yet this morning i saw an interesting stat. 2023 was the safest year in aviation history, not ONE death WORLDWIDE from a major airline crash incident. think about how many commercial flights there are in a single day.

maybe all this press is because Boeing is donating to Trump or something? or the damn media just needs to sensationalize everything to keep us glued to them. i dunno.

There's quite a few planes in the sky at any given point....most don't really realize the scope.

 

[Taboma]

There's quite a few planes in the sky at any given point....most don't really realize the scope.

View attachment 1349204 View attachment 1349204

Well damn !!!!
We don't need no stinkin Chemical Geoengineering. Hell, the solar reflection alone from all them planes should be chillin our bones.

 

[coolchange]

all these F*&^ ups and yet this morning i saw an interesting stat. 2023 was the safest year in aviation history, not ONE death WORLDWIDE from a major airline crash incident. think about how many commercial flights there are in a single day.

maybe all this press is because Boeing is donating to Trump or something? or the damn media just needs to sensationalize everything to keep us glued to them. i dunno.

Be interesting to see how many shorts are out when this news surfaces. Could be market manipulation for sure.

 

[CLdrinker]

BA stock holding steady in the 180’s. That’s damn good all things considered

 

[Oggie]

Worked at Puget Sound Boeing for 32 years, retired during covid. The place took a slow decline after Boeing bought Mcdonnall Douglas. Mcdonnall Douglas executives took over, got rid of any engineers that had a say on how to actually build great planes. Alan Mulally who was head engineer of the 777 was thought to be next in line to run the place. He was a great engineer and once they drove him out he did a great job as CEO of Ford. Jim McNerney became CEO and started outsourcing everything he could and froze pensions in 2016. The 787 was a disaster. There were many more problems getting that plane right than was known to the public. They have lowered the standards to get a job Now they cannot get good employees to stay working there.

 

[Smitty7]

Worked at Puget Sound Boeing for 32 years, retired during covid. The place took a slow decline after Boeing bought Mcdonnall Douglas. Mcdonnall Douglas executives took over, got rid of any engineers that had a say on how to actually build great planes. Alan Mulally who was head engineer of the 777 was thought to be next in line to run the place. He was a great engineer and once they drove him out he did a great job as CEO of Ford. Jim McNerney became CEO and started outsourcing everything he could and froze pensions in 2016. The 787 was a disaster. There were many more problems getting that plane right than was known to the public. They have lowered the standards to get a job Now they cannot get good employees to stay working there.

How much does it pay? If thats all they need is someone to do half assed work I can handle that.

 

[530RL]

all these F*&^ ups and yet this morning i saw an interesting stat. 2023 was the safest year in aviation history, not ONE death WORLDWIDE from a major airline crash incident. think about how many commercial flights there are in a single day.

maybe all this press is because Boeing is donating to Trump or something? or the damn media just needs to sensationalize everything to keep us glued to them. i dunno.

It is incredibly safe. Safer than walking.

But as things become safer, we become pickier. We just don't want safe, we want perfect, on-time, no weather delays, no flames, and no occasional door popping off.

Just think how good the systems have to be to keep the human error down to what it is today compared to the past.

Amazing progress.

People would shit themselves if they had to fly on this old workhorse today.

 

[lbhsbz]

It is incredibly safe. Safer than walking.

But as things become safer, we become pickier. We just don't want safe, we want perfect, on-time, no weather delays, no flames, and no occasional door popping off.

Just think how good the systems have to be to keep the human error down to what it is today compared to the past.

Amazing progress.

People would shit themselves if they had to fly on this old workhorse today.

That's badass

 

[Oggie]

How much does it pay? If thats all they need is someone to do half assed work I can handle that.

LOL, you sound perfect.... IAM 751 wage card below, copy the URL. Most common machinist entry level is Grade 4 and it takes 6 years to get the top wage This could be why they have trouble keeping mechanics. Looks like low pay to me. There coming up for a new contract. One can negotiate starting pay. DOE.

WAGE Card

First three digits of a job number is the job family. The last two digits of the job number is the pay grade.

www.iam751.org

 

[caribbean20]

Surprised the shareholders haven’t broomed that whole Board. Calhoun has been on the Board since 2009, he needs to go, he is part of the problem. The Board and senior management need a thorough housecleaning, and the shareholders just have to expect increased costs in the near term as quality is again inculcated into the Boeing DNA. Painful to see this happening to an American icon.

. . . and yet, as pointed out, commercial aviation remains the safest form of transportation. I have no worries boarding any Boeing or Airbus planes, and do often.

 

[Oggie]

Surprised the shareholders haven’t broomed that whole Board. Calhoun has been on the Board since 2009, he needs to go, he is part of the problem. The Board and senior management need a thorough housecleaning, and the shareholders just have to expect increased costs in the near term as quality is again inculcated into the Boeing DNA. Painful to see this happening to an American icon.

. . . and yet, as pointed out, commercial aviation remains the safest form of transportation. I have no worries boarding any Boeing or Airbus planes, and do often.

I agree. No issues for me either. I just flew an Alaska 737 to Palm Springs yesterday. There is so much scrutiny right now it is most likely a good time to fly!!

 

[Sandlord]

Worked at Puget Sound Boeing for 32 years, retired during covid. The place took a slow decline after Boeing bought Mcdonnall Douglas. Mcdonnall Douglas executives took over, got rid of any engineers that had a say on how to actually build great planes. Alan Mulally who was head engineer of the 777 was thought to be next in line to run the place. He was a great engineer and once they drove him out he did a great job as CEO of Ford. Jim McNerney became CEO and started outsourcing everything he could and froze pensions in 2016. The 787 was a disaster. There were many more problems getting that plane right than was known to the public. They have lowered the standards to get a job Now they cannot get good employees to stay working there.

Thats pretty much spot on. And the same as what is being said on some Boeing retirees pages on facebook. I had the pleasure of working at Rockwell, Boeing, and Boeing under MD for over 35 years in El Segundo, Palmdale, Edwards AFB, Boeing Field in Seattle, and San Antonio for both the Commercial and the Defense side. I retired in 2015. I got to experience a lot of different managment styles.
The decline started with the merger of McD and Boeing under Phil and Harry and both were forced out after affairs and illegal contract bidding. Alan Mulally would have been a great choice to lead the company. McNerney was a disaster. The Charleston expansion was probably a bad idea. Seattle didn’t send their best, St Louis sent employees that wanted to do things their way and the support from the PNW in many areas was lacking. The 737 Max line was rolled out too quickly and right around the same time as Renton was adding another assembly line. I could go on with my opinion about the 787 and the 747-8, but thats another story.

 

[rmarion]

Alt Skull's Charnel House

A tour of the Boeing factory floor. …sigh… @AltSkull48

t.me

 

[rmarion]

 

[530RL]

Surprised the shareholders haven’t broomed that whole Board. Calhoun has been on the Board since 2009, he needs to go, he is part of the problem. The Board and senior management need a thorough housecleaning, and the shareholders just have to expect increased costs in the near term as quality is again inculcated into the Boeing DNA. Painful to see this happening to an American icon.

. . . and yet, as pointed out, commercial aviation remains the safest form of transportation. I have no worries boarding any Boeing or Airbus planes, and do often.

As opposed to committing to a clean sheet design, Boeing stuck LEAP engines under an early 60’s design that didn’t have the appropriate ground clearance.

So they got crushed by the A320 family from Airbus a late 80’s design.

Boeing has to bite the bullet and commit to a clean sheet design as the Max simply can not compete with the A320 family. Or live with smaller market share and lower margins attempting to compete with their inferior product.

 

[regor]

DNyuz - Latest Breaking U.S. News

Latest Breaking News, U.S. and World Politics, Crime, Business, Science, Technology, Autos, Entertainment, Culture, Movie, Music, Sports.

dnyuz.com

In February last year, a new Southwest Airlines Boeing 737 Max plane was on one of its first flights when an automated stabilizing system appeared to malfunction, forcing the pilots to make an emergency landing soon after they took off.

Less than two months later, an Alaska Airlines 737 Max plane with eight hours of total flight time was briefly grounded until mechanics resolved a problem with a fire detection system. And in November, an engine on a just-delivered United Airlines 737 Max failed at 37,000 feet.

“For years, we prioritized the movement of the airplane through the factory over getting it done right, and that’s got to change,” Brian West, the company’s chief financial officer, said at an investor conference last week.


That is the Airline’s responsibility!!!!!!

 

[rrrr]

As opposed to committing to a clean sheet design, Boeing stuck LEAP engines under an early 60’s design that didn’t have the appropriate ground clearance.

So they got crushed by the A320 family from Airbus a late 80’s design.

Boeing has to bite the bullet and commit to a clean sheet design as the Max simply can not compete with the A320 family. Or live with smaller market share and lower margins attempting to compete with their inferior product.

Airbus is far from perfect, yet their faults have been completely ignored by the press that is clamoring for Boeing blood.

The A320neo has much bigger problems than the 737MAX, that being significant and costly repairs needed for the fleet's Pratt & Whitney geared turbofan (GTF) engines. The engines have had problems for years, which has required periodic groundings of the fleet, restrictions to overwater flight, and expensive fixes to design flaws. But now there is another issue looming. There are approximately 1,500 A320s that require an inspection process which will take years and cost airlines billions of dollars in lost revenue.

The latest issue, cracks in turbine discs, have caused P&W's parent, RTX (formerly Raytheon), to take a $4.5 billion charge against earnings to fix the faults and compensate airlines for revenue losses. It involves hundreds of aircraft, will require the removal of the engines to perform, and will remove each aircraft inspected out of service for an estimated 10 months.

There are already more than 1,300 A320neos parked and out of service, waiting for openings in maintenance queues to occur. Airlines worldwide are scrambling to find A320ceo replacements to offset the groundings. That model is the predecessor of the A320neo, and almost all available are more than 15 years old. Many are currently in longtime storage at desert airports. Maintenance, avionics upgrades, and fleet conformity modifications will take time and money to accomplish.

Problems with the GTF engine have been a huge issue for over ten years, yet P&W and Airbus have escaped the scrutiny applied to Boeing aircraft. The faulty engines have already cost airlines more than a billion dollars.

Some 3,000 engines, including PW1000Gs of all types and IAE V2500s, built from mid-2015 through mid-2021, may have parts with contaminated powder metal (PM). Cracking from PM contamination has been found in high-pressure turbine (HPT) Stage 1 and 2 disks, or hubs, installed in the powerplants. Pratt is also inspecting some high-pressure compressor (HPC) disks built at the same time, RTX revealed. Most of the affected engines are PW1100Gs found on A320neo-family aircraft.

Clogged engine overhaul shops and a fast-tracking of necessary inspections on higher-time PW1100G GTFs will likely drive repair turnaround times to up to as many as 300 days per engine and could ground 650 Airbus A320neos at one time early next year, RTX disclosed. According to Aviation Week Network’s Fleet Discovery database, 1,354 Pratt-powered A320neo-family aircraft are currently in service, parked, stored or in parked/reserve status.

Fleet groundings will “average” 350 at any given time through 2026, according to RTX President and Chief Operating Officer Chris Calio.

Pratt GTF Repair Plan Jolts Beleaguered Airline Industry | Aviation Week Network

Pratt & Whitney has been working for months to figure out how to schedule needed PW1100G repairs. The fleet management plan is painful for everyone involved.

aviationweek.com

 

[530RL]

Airbus is far from perfect, yet their faults have been completely ignored by the press that is clamoring for Boeing blood.

The A320neo has much bigger problems than the 737MAX, that being significant and costly repairs needed for the fleet's Pratt & Whitney geared turbofan (GTF) engines. The engines have had problems for years, which has required periodic groundings of the fleet, restrictions to overwater flight, and expensive fixes to design flaws. But now there is another issue looming. There are approximately 1,500 A320s that require an inspection process which will take years and cost airlines billions of dollars in lost revenue.

The latest issue, cracks in turbine discs, have caused P&W's parent, RTX (formerly Raytheon), to take a $4.5 billion charge against earnings to fix the faults and compensate airlines for revenue losses. It involves hundreds of aircraft, will require the removal of the engines to perform, and will remove each aircraft inspected out of service for an estimated 10 months.

There are already more than 1,300 A320neos parked and out of service, waiting for openings in maintenance queues to occur. Airlines worldwide are scrambling to find A320ceo replacements to offset the groundings. That model is the predecessor of the A320neo, and almost available are more than 15 years old. Many are currently in longtime storage at desert airports. Maintenance, avionics upgrades, and fleet conformity modifications will take time and money to accomplish.

Problems with the GTF engine have been a huge issue for over ten years, yet P&W and Airbus have escaped the scrutiny applied to Boeing aircraft. The faulty engines have already cost airlines more than a billion dollars.

Some 3,000 engines, including PW1000Gs of all types and IAE V2500s, built from mid-2015 through mid-2021, may have parts with contaminated powder metal (PM). Cracking from PM contamination has been found in high-pressure turbine (HPT) Stage 1 and 2 disks, or hubs, installed in the powerplants. Pratt is also inspecting some high-pressure compressor (HPC) disks built at the same time, RTX revealed. Most of the affected engines are PW1100Gs found on A320neo-family aircraft.

Clogged engine overhaul shops and a fast-tracking of necessary inspections on higher-time PW1100G GTFs will likely drive repair turnaround times to up to as many as 300 days per engine and could ground 650 Airbus A320neos at one time early next year, RTX disclosed. According to Aviation Week Network’s Fleet Discovery database, 1,354 Pratt-powered A320neo-family aircraft are currently in service, parked, stored or in parked/reserve status.

Fleet groundings will “average” 350 at any given time through 2026, according to RTX President and Chief Operating Officer Chris Calio.

Pratt GTF Repair Plan Jolts Beleaguered Airline Industry | Aviation Week Network

Pratt & Whitney has been working for months to figure out how to schedule needed PW1100G repairs. The fleet management plan is painful for everyone involved.

aviationweek.com

Although certainly a dispatch problem for airlines and its customers, that's really not an Airbus airframe or design problem but a Pratt problem and the CFM's certainly are having a better maintenance record.

For example Qatar completely scrapped their most recent NEO orders with Pratt power and moved back in line for NEO orders with CFM power.

Airbus certainly has its problems like Boeing, but on the narrow body high volume segment, Airbus has a better product over the MAX family. The MAX is fundamentally flawed given its gear/wing configuration and the necessity to move the engine up causing all sorts of aerodynamic compromises. The 73X family was "maxed" out before the Max. And now Boeing is paying for it.

 

[TPC]

I’ll stick to the airbus 321 from SFO to BOS thank you very much.

Flight attendants in our OHV group call them,,,, Scarebus.

 

[shintoooo]

Whoops!!

x.com

x.com

 

[JDKRXW]

As opposed to committing to a clean sheet design, Boeing stuck LEAP engines under an early 60’s design that didn’t have the appropriate ground clearance.

So they got crushed by the A320 family from Airbus a late 80’s design.

Boeing has to bite the bullet and commit to a clean sheet design as the Max simply can not compete with the A320 family.

They had another choice;

757's could have been updated .... and there is no issue in mounting LEAP engines.
And; the first thing Boeing did once the Max8 was done is started adding seats (Max9 &10) putting them squarely into 757 territory.... which is a generation newer that the original 737's.

The big gamble was trying to add all the technology and not need pilots to update/upgrade their type rating.

 

[4Waters]

Whoops!!

x.com

x.com

It's all good, that's why there are 2 others on that side

 

[napanutt]

But wait, there’s more.

https://ktvu.com/news/united-san-francisco-flight-to-paris-lands-in-denver-after-engine-problem

 

[JDKRXW]

It seems to me the MSM thinks that pre 737 Max8, no Boeing (or even Airbus) ever had any mechanical issues before takeoff or had to divert because something funky was happening.

MSM can't stop themselves from digging their own Graves

 

[Cray Paper]

Worked at Puget Sound Boeing for 32 years, retired during covid. The place took a slow decline after Boeing bought Mcdonnall Douglas. Mcdonnall Douglas executives took over, got rid of any engineers that had a say on how to actually build great planes. Alan Mulally who was head engineer of the 777 was thought to be next in line to run the place. He was a great engineer and once they drove him out he did a great job as CEO of Ford. Jim McNerney became CEO and started outsourcing everything he could and froze pensions in 2016. The 787 was a disaster. There were many more problems getting that plane right than was known to the public. They have lowered the standards to get a job Now they cannot get good employees to stay working there.

I have family members that have have worked at Boeing since before I was born and what you say is absolutely correct albeit subtle. You articulated what I mentioned much earlier in this but thread much better than I did.

For the Mcdonnall Douglas apologists, read this synopsis of what went wrong with Boeing.

The Merger That Brought Boeing Low | Opinion

The Boeing 737 MAX crisis highlights the consequences of corporate culture issues, supply chain mismanagement, and design errors.

www.newsweek.com

When engineering and manufacturing excellence fall to bean counters and stock holders ignorant self serving whims you get what has happened to an iconic US world class manufacture. Back in the late 90's the Bill Clinton drive was for the US to become a "service industry", I didnt understand what that meant at the time, but my dumb carpenter mind does now, stock evaluation. Meaning the product doesn't matter, as long as the stock valuation is holding strong. Factor in risk management, dumb asses that don't know shit about the product but think they can word smith value...that is what went wrong with Boeing and just about every US manufacturing industry since. Greed and incredibly short sighted and dumb people pulling the levers. Stock holders are also fit in to this category.

The Boeing family still lives in the PNW, I bet they are sick to their stomach seeing what has happened to their company.

Greed and stupidity by the smartest people in the room from the take over have led to this. Share holders need to look in the mirror, they own the majority of responsibility of what is happening to this once great ENGINEERING and manufacturing company.

Shit can the entire board of directors and replace them with engineer / builder types AND bring everything back in house and get back to total control is the only way Boeing gets back to what and where they need to be. Anything less and they will slowly dissolve in to the either us past influential manufacturing companies.

 

[Oggie]

I have family members that have have worked at Boeing since before I was born and what you say is absolutely correct albeit subtle. You articulated what I mentioned much earlier in this but thread much better than I did.

For the Mcdonnall Douglas apologists, read this synopsis of what went wrong with Boeing.

The Merger That Brought Boeing Low | Opinion

The Boeing 737 MAX crisis highlights the consequences of corporate culture issues, supply chain mismanagement, and design errors.

www.newsweek.com

When engineering and manufacturing excellence fall to bean counters and stock holders ignorant self serving whims you get what has happened to an iconic US world class manufacture. Back in the late 90's the Bill Clinton drive was for the US to become a "service industry", I didnt understand what that meant at the time, but my dumb carpenter mind does now, stock evaluation. Meaning the product doesn't matter, as long as the stock valuation is holding strong. Factor in risk management, dumb asses that don't know shit about the product but think they can word smith value...that is what went wrong with Boeing and just about every US manufacturing industry since. Greed and incredibly short sighted and dumb people pulling the levers. Stock holders are also fit in to this category.

The Boeing family still lives in the PNW, I bet they are sick to their stomach seeing what has happened to their company.

Greed and stupidity by the smartest people in the room from the take over have led to this. Share holders need to look in the mirror, they own the majority of responsibility of what is happening to this once great ENGINEERING and manufacturing company
Shit can the entire board of directors and replace them with engineer / builder types AND bring everything back in house and get back to total control is the only way Boeing gets back to what and where they need to be. Anything less and they will slowly dissolve in to the either us past influential manufacturing companies.

I agree with your statements. I could have gone on and on about a once great company that I saw devolve. It just makes me sad. My son started there in 2006. It was good for him at the time and for a few years. He got watch and still is watching the mistakes the company is making.

 

[Cray Paper]

I have a close family member that works in NDI, he keeps it close to the vest for the most part but some of the things he see's day and out is freighting from an aviation manufacture and has been since the mid 2000's. When people that run a company are only driven by profit margins and don't know anything about the product and don't care to know, you get what has happened to Boeing, it's entirely predictable. The blame falls directly to the MD take over and dipshits that ran the company in to the ground. The US is a golden goose for making money and shareholders and CEO's are directly to blame for the current down fall of US manufacturing and trade deficits, the goose is on it's last leg.

Airbus is EU subsidized manufacture and didn't compare to the quality of Boeing aircraft until the profit first mantra of MD led Boeing set in. There is zero reason Boeing should be in the position they are in other than piss poor leadership driven by profits.

 

[rmarion]

 

[Orange Juice]

 

[poncho]

I'm at the gate in Anchorage waiting to board.
They just announced a delay, I shit you not she said maintenance is on board working on a door.
Me thinks should have left that part out

 

[regor]

I'm at the gate in Anchorage waiting to board.
They just announced a delay, I shit you not she said maintenance is on board working on a door.
Me thinks should have left that part out

 

[4Waters]

I'm at the gate in Anchorage waiting to board.
They just announced a delay, I shit you not she said maintenance is on board working on a door.
Me thinks should have left that part out

At least you know the door is secure

 

[SoCalDave]

At least you can hope the door is secure

Fixed it for ya...

 

[wzuber]

Whoops!!

x.com

x.com

Ehh....whats a little dirty air amongst dynamic forces?

 

[wzuber]

View attachment 1353200

Heaven or hell depending on if you've been a good or bad boy.

 

[Cray Paper]

What has happened to Boeing over the last 25 years is the same thing that has happened in the industry I work in, large commercial construction projects. There are to many college educated people that don't know anything about how or what their employer builds that get elevated to upper management and ultimately steer the company. They silence / weed out the people that know how to build shit and provide knowledgeable feedback because they lack the spin / polish they are trained to adhere to. These people have been taught / bought in to the directed education they received and their main focus is on attaining upper status in big corporations by using the "values" they were taught. They are not able to think for themselves, make critical decisions on their own.

Not all, but a majority are not intelligent enough to adapt to input from less " educated" people than them and understand what really is an issue and how to correct it. With Boeing, layer upon multiple layers of management by these same people equal what is happening what is happening right now. Led by people that don't know how to build what they are selling to the public and shareholders. It is rampant with a lot of US companies right now.

 

[rmarion]

At least you know the door is secure

which one???