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For the Real Estate Drop in sales and price Naysayers HOLD ONTO YOUR HATS

LargeOrangeFont

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I was asking a legitimate question. I was genuinely curious why a hedge fund would buy at the peak?

I wouldn’t touch a house in Phoenix even with someone else’s money. Of course, unless it was a primary residence for the long haul.

Ive always had the position that we will give back the covid gains (more in 2nd home areas). I’m just an average joe with an opinion.

I’m gonna let you guys take this from here.

Connecting a couple dots here... If the notes @c_land posted are what the industry is pricing in or predicting, that starts to make sense why hedge funds would be buying now.
 

kurtis500

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I’ve ran an Airbnb at my Phoenix house for 4 seasons now. This year NOBODY but one person booked during this summer. Usually it’s booked 75% of the days for the 3 summer months. This year just the one booking. Strange.. gas prices or ??? I pulled it off and we’re moving my recently graduated son in to it for his internship. If we needed the income we would be getting in trouble real quick.
 

2FORCEFULL

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This is exactly why rents will never go down, and in fact trend up more aggressively in the future.
what about my deal???? I paid 300k for 2 units.... they rent there from 12-1400 each..... I was gonna buy a house.... for 400k ,...rent for 12-1400....???? did I do ok???
 
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EmpirE231

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The .gov employment numbers have always been a farce.

What I said before and say now is the same thing. I still see businesses all over looking for help. What you explained illustrates my point. Servers aren't homeowners, they are sitting at home or wherever, and higher paying positions are still understaffed. We are not shedding jobs, we are not net loosing jobs yet. I would expect 50K mortgage processors got laid off this year.. there are no mortgages to do right now. but we are still hiring, for now anyway.

Now we are back to the broad brush strokes of "almost everyone"? Pools didn't exist before 2020? No one got remodels before then? Most people weren't doing "smart money" things with their cash out refi monies in the last 2 years? 😄 Yes there has been high demand for stuff in the last 2 years, but it didn't all happen since 2020.

We all keep going round and round on this - you keep saying everyone is dumb and leveraged to the hilt, and is going to get bit. I agree many will, but it is not going to be the majority of people in the country that need to exit their homes. The bottom line of this thread is that you need people exiting their homes in huge numbers for RE prices to drop significantly. And that may happen in some markets, and they may drop significantly. If a 5% average drop nationally in 2023 happens as predicted above, I have no reason to get that worked up over it, and all the RDP Smart Money won't be buying anything.. they will be sitting with their arms crossed on the sidelines.

20% drop on a million bucks is significant I'd say.

5% is hard number to buy.... we've already seen some 5% drops within a few months in socal area.... didn't you say your place would sell for less now than when you sold it?

pools and remodels existed before 2020, but lets be honest.... when people got locked up, after the 2 weeks of panic settled, everyone started doing stuff to their homes. Go ask some pool builders how busy they were in 2018 compared to 2021.... they are in fact so busy, that most peoples pools that were supposed to be finished, are still under construction today. People will only do some many kitchens, pools, patios... within x amount of years. I'd say the masses have gotten what they want, , meaning a lot of those industries are poised for a major slow down in business.
 

2FORCEFULL

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I’ve ran an Airbnb at my Phoenix house for 4 seasons now. This year NOBODY but one person booked during this summer. Usually it’s booked 75% of the days for the 3 summer months. This year just the one booking. Strange.. gas prices or ??? I pulled it off and we’re moving my recently graduated son in to it for his internship. If we needed the income we would be getting in trouble real quick.
you don't think he'll pay the rent???
 

PaPaG

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Wait .... current interest rates are 5%-6% and 69% of home buyers are re-thinking buying because of that!! ... these are certainly crazy times for sure! .... lol .. they could really regret that someday!
Not only interest rates that are going up, up and up again starting at the end of the month when the Fed raises rates as much as 1%, then again maybe .75 in Sept, then again on the following rate increase. I have absolutely no clue if our rates will ever be down to 2 or 2.5% again in a long time and as they go back to the historical normal rates of 6 and maybe even 7/8% buyers will slow down big time I am 100% for sure on that (I think anyone who has any business, economic, real estate experience or sense knows that as well), no more free money or super low interest rates will guaranteed have an effect on future sales and prices of homes and the market. The only caveat is that since Covid craziness who really knows exacts, my comments are based on my experience, economic data and trend research that I have done and do on a daily basis. I am NO EXPERT by any means and I don't care if anyone buys or sells during any market or what they pay for anything, I just know that for myself and my family I always try to be ready so when/not if the drop occurs it opens up a lot more opportunities for cash purchases and profits down the road.
 

Sportin' Wood

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I’ve ran an Airbnb at my Phoenix house for 4 seasons now. This year NOBODY but one person booked during this summer. Usually it’s booked 75% of the days for the 3 summer months. This year just the one booking. Strange.. gas prices or ??? I pulled it off and we’re moving my recently graduated son in to it for his internship. If we needed the income we would be getting in trouble real quick.

"Dumb Money" Finacial report from S.Wood

STR in Flathead Valley MT is something we have been watching. Medium feature houses, the kinds blue collar folks might book used to be reserved a year in advance during the season. They seem booked until Sept fairly steady, but 2023 seems a ghost town. Even the 4th of July is not booked. These homes used to be booked a year in advance as thick as thieves.

High-dollar stuff is still looking pretty good. some of these get booked by wedding parties and family reunions. Spread out the costs.

"I suspect the pain comes later this year into the fall. I imagine STRs start hitting the market if the spring booking looks weak." Said Dumb Money ace S.Wood

"IMHO many of the houses up here doubled in perceived value from 2019 to 2022. If they give back 75% of that I will be happy. We are playing for retirement and hope to get a little more house than what we want to pay today. STRs are exactly the kinds of places I am attracted to". Wood continued.

Follow Dumb Money wherever you waste time on social media. "It's Contagious"
 

530RL

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Like I said, I personally do not know or ever heard anyone calling for doom and gloom during the Trump administration, maybe a slight housing correction but that is always cyclical throughout the housing market history. Doom and Gloom...Nope. Opportunity to buy more property YUP.
How about February of 2018. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

 

c_land

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20% drop on a million bucks is significant I'd say.

5% is hard number to buy.... we've already seen some 5% drops within a few months in socal area.... didn't you say your place would sell for less now than when you sold it?

pools and remodels existed before 2020, but lets be honest.... when people got locked up, after the 2 weeks of panic settled, everyone started doing stuff to their homes. Go ask some pool builders how busy they were in 2018 compared to 2021.... they are in fact so busy, that most peoples pools that were supposed to be finished, are still under construction today. People will only do some many kitchens, pools, patios... within x amount of years. I'd say the masses have gotten what they want, , meaning a lot of those industries are poised for a major slow down in business.
YES and that's why real estate is important in the macro view of the economy at large. The NAHB estimates the the housing and RE sectors accounts for ~15% of GDP. It's also highly dependent on credit availability and cost.

From what I listened to this morning there are a significant number (i think she said 50+%) of homeowners now financed at a rate lower than 4%.

How many people took some money out and remodeled a kitchen, bought a new car, put in a pool? How many refied and are saving a significant amount per month and have been spending that in the economy elsewhere?

Then there are existing home sales and the impact to GDP those represent. Professional services involved in the transaction, new home furnishings, etc.

Then new home sales. Builders purchasing land, employing contractors, contractors employing labor, lenders, bank earnings on loans, etc.

So then go back to that 50% of homeowners at a rate under 4%. Those people are uninterested in refinancing at a higher rate, and they are uninterested in moving to a new expensive house at a higher rate. All the spending activities associated with the housing sector summarized above slow or stop.

With rising rates, that 15% GDP tailwind that housing represents turns into a headwind. That's why it's said that housing is a key transmission mechanism of fed policy.
 

PaPaG

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what about my deal???? I paid 300k for 2 units.... they rent there from 12-1400 each..... I was gonna buy a house.... for 400k ,...rent for 12-1400....???? did I do ok???
300k for 2 - 2 bed 2 bath condos in Vegas is a great price right now, and as long as you get decent renters you will be just fine. Lets hope NV does not screw all its landlords again and let people live there for rent free for almost 2 years while the owners still have to pay mortgages, repairs and HOAs while the renters got away without having to pay a penny, we had clients with property totals of over 5k units in Vegas not paying rent and if they were not Multi-Million dollar owners or low or no debt free owners they got in a lot of financial trouble. I know you know your shit that is for sure.
 

COCA COLA COWBOY

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Offers are still coming in, but lots of low ball offers well below comps and list price. Lots of inventory where people put their homes on the market for pricing of 3 months ago. I've seen this time and time again. Those that want to sell, will reduce and get their homes sold. Those that are only willing to sell if they get their number, will eventually hold onto the home and ride the market. Those that sell are setting the numbers for futures comp's which is lower....and lower and lower showing the decline in the market.

Typically, the first year of a transition is the biggest, after that initial 12 month decline, the numbers may go down, but will be nominal. This will be the time the investors come out of the woodwork and buy buy buy as they numbers make great sense for rentals and long term investments.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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20% drop on a million bucks is significant I'd say.

5% is hard number to buy.... we've already seen some 5% drops within a few months in socal area.... didn't you say your place would sell for less now than when you sold it?

pools and remodels existed before 2020, but lets be honest.... when people got locked up, after the 2 weeks of panic settled, everyone started doing stuff to their homes. Go ask some pool builders how busy they were in 2018 compared to 2021.... they are in fact so busy, that most peoples pools that were supposed to be finished, are still under construction today. People will only do some many kitchens, pools, patios... within x amount of years. I'd say the masses have gotten what they want, , meaning a lot of those industries are poised for a major slow down in business.

Yes my old house is already off the peak numbers. We have 6 months to go in 2022, and what they are saying is we will stay relatively stable through 2023, is how I am reading it.

We all know there were refis the last couple years. We keep asking the question where are these people going to go? Inflation and rent increases won’t really let them move, and it takes what, a year to foreclose on a house, and everyone imperiled will be looking to the .gov for a reprieve.

Why do you think I’m waiting until next year to do a pool? 😉

Pool people are busy yes, but they can’t even get the materials to do the pools when they need them.These guys I talked to could have done 30% more pools if they had the supply of materials.
 
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Havasu blue label

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Don’t forget your new home is up 50 percent mr putting a call into Jim Cramer you would be a great guest
 

westair

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How about February of 2018. 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

That was a good read ....lol
 

ChumpChange

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Other than @BHC Vic (btw when’s he unbanned lol) talking about his buddy who shared his whole life on Facebook. I haven’t seen anyone post about first and second hand knowledge of over leveraged real estate.

@HTMike spoke about neighbors over extended with Ford Broncos.
I have plenty of knowledge about it. Just haven’t posted it.
 

MSum661

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Latest analysis from Redfin says home sales cancellations for June 2022 were the highest on record.

"Nationwide, roughly 60,000 home-purchase agreements fell through in June, equal to 14.9% of homes that went under contract that month. That’s the highest percentage on record with the exception of March and April 2020, when the housing market all but ground to a halt due to the onset of the coronavirus pandemic. It compares with 12.7% a month earlier and 11.2% a year earlier."

The table below measures pending sales that fell out of contract as a percentage of overall pending sales, and is sorted from highest to lowest. A metro must have had at least 1,000 pending-home sales in June 2022 to be included.
2022-07-14 at 13-16-34 The Deal Is Off Home Sales Are Getting Canceled at the Highest Rate Sin...png
 

77charger

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Just looked my neighborhood the other day at some houses that were recently listed and seen price drops as well as another sold.Im not concerned as ours is almost paid for and we aint going anywhere.
 

EmpirE231

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will be interesting to see what this does to Chinese home markets & banks

 

Done-it-again

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pools and remodels existed before 2020, but lets be honest.... when people got locked up, after the 2 weeks of panic settled, everyone started doing stuff to their homes. Go ask some pool builders how busy they were in 2018 compared to 2021.... they are in fact so busy, that most peoples pools that were supposed to be finished, are still under construction today. People will only do some many kitchens, pools, patios... within x amount of years. I'd say the masses have gotten what they want, , meaning a lot of those industries are poised for a major slow down in business.

Or back to more normal amount of work/revenue.... You can't call what was going on the past 3-4 yrs the norm.... In any case anyone in the industries above better have saved some $$$$ cause they will not be breaking record profits.
 

PlanB

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My neighbor here in SoCal has crews painting his houses (primary and guest) right now with the intent to sell. I am kind of hoping he missed the market because I don't want to roll the dice on getting some new neighbors who are assholes. 😁
 

MSum661

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will be interesting to see what this does to Chinese home markets & banks


Banks runs starting in China at the same time...


 

LargeOrangeFont

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what about my deal???? I paid 300k for 2 units.... they rent there from 12-1400 each..... I was gonna buy a house.... for 400k ,...rent for 12-1400....???? did I do ok???

Dude nice pickup. I am looking for deals like that now.
 

boatpi

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Any decent three bedroom house with a garage in Las Vegas as long as not in a hood rat area renting for below $1900 will rent quickly.

I have several in that range and then I have a larger house about 4000 ft.² five bedroom with a pool in it’s 3000+ all day long. It’s a different world now in Las Vegas and even three years ago.
 

kurtis500

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you don't think he'll pay the rent???
He's definitely going to pay some but he cant afford the house. We are taking what we payed to his university and applying it to the house. He has a friend he grew up with renting a room also. Its 3500sqft 4bed 3 bath in north central phoenix so a bit much for one or two people.
 

Badchoices03

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Well my mom is selling her house, she bought in in 2018, her listing goes live tomorrow...we will see how she does.
 

kurtis500

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"Dumb Money" Finacial report from S.Wood

STR in Flathead Valley MT is something we have been watching. Medium feature houses, the kinds blue collar folks might book used to be reserved a year in advance during the season. They seem booked until Sept fairly steady, but 2023 seems a ghost town. Even the 4th of July is not booked. These homes used to be booked a year in advance as thick as thieves.

High-dollar stuff is still looking pretty good. some of these get booked by wedding parties and family reunions. Spread out the costs.

"I suspect the pain comes later this year into the fall. I imagine STRs start hitting the market if the spring booking looks weak." Said Dumb Money ace S.Wood

"IMHO many of the houses up here doubled in perceived value from 2019 to 2022. If they give back 75% of that I will be happy. We are playing for retirement and hope to get a little more house than what we want to pay today. STRs are exactly the kinds of places I am attracted to". Wood continued.

Follow Dumb Money wherever you waste time on social media. "It's Contagious"
Fortunately we've owned the house for 24 years and rented it out occasionally on AirBNB for the last 4. Never to make money really but to cover some expenses as opposed to letting it sit. Since we screen guests we've only had one bad group in 4 years. Its been a pleasant expereince but likely because we weren't strapped financially to it and spread out the guests. About 1 in 4 guests we knew or had referrals from friends. Here it is/was. still shows some of July open but we wont accept any bookings now.. https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/434888...1641594438_moraOmqwd8A4N6Rw&guests=1&adults=1
 

Englewood

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Englewood

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I didn’t know he was a clown, however I can respect a clown with a 200 million real estate portfolio in 40 years, any given Sunday.
He’s a good salesman 100%. He doesn’t live by his own rules.

Anyone who says the information below is not only a clown, but they are ALREADY wrong.

Are Home Prices Dropping?​

The short answer: no. Home prices are based on supply and demand. And there are currently way more people that want homes than there are homes to put them in. What you can learn from this (and from the historical data that backs it up):
  • Home prices are not dropping. They will continue to rise for the next five years—just at a slower rate.
  • The market is not going to crash.
  • As the market slows down and supply increases, we expect to see supply and demand level out in the next few years.
 

Roosky01

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Yes my old house is already off the peak numbers. We have 6 months to go in 2022, and what they are saying is we will stay relatively stable through 2023, is how I am reading it.

We all know there were refis the last couple years. We keep asking the question where are these people going to go? Inflation and rent increases won’t really let them move, and it takes what, a year to foreclose on a house, and everyone imperiled will be looking to the .gov for a reprieve.

Why do you think I’m waiting until next year to do a pool? 😉

Pool people are busy yes, but they can’t even get the materials to do the pools when they need them.These guys I talked to could have done 30% more pools if they had the supply of materials.
Are they seeing cancellations on pool contracts? I'd imagine that would be about the first thing to get cut from a budget?
 

CarolynandBob

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We just got back from a trip to El Paso to see the grandkids. We ate out the whole trip. A lot of empty tables in restaurants and never had to wait for a table. Service was pretty good. Does this mean anything? I don't know. Just giving data. This was after the 4th weekend, so that may have had something to do with it.

Roads we pretty busy with truckers, but didn't think there was a ton of cars. On a side note, it was the first time I had witnessed truckers being asshole drivers.
 

LargeOrangeFont

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Are they seeing cancellations on pool contracts? I'd imagine that would be about the first thing to get cut from a budget?
As of a month ago they said no, but that may have changed.
 

HB2Havasu

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Prices are going to drop, they already have. Depending on who you believe they may drop anywhere from 10-60%.
I believe price adjustments will depend a lot on where the home is located. People are still bailing out of California by a rate of approx 120K per month (1.4 million annually) and moving to Red States. That number could double or triple if we hit a hard recession or depression and people start losing jobs 😱

States like Texas, Florida, Tennessee, Arizona etc will see prices flatten or dip slightly until a new administration takes over DC in 2025. I agree that Blue States like California, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Washington, etc could easily see the 10%-60% dip your speaking of by 2025.

I hope yore wrong!
 

Done-it-again

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We just got back from a trip to El Paso to see the grandkids. We ate out the whole trip. A lot of empty tables in restaurants and never had to wait for a table. Service was pretty good. Does this mean anything? I don't know. Just giving data. This was after the 4th weekend, so that may have had something to do with it.

Roads we pretty busy with truckers, but didn't think there was a ton of cars. On a side note, it was the first time I had witnessed truckers being asshole drivers.
We have dinner at Lawry’s in Beverly Hills Sunday. Will see if it’s busy.

To be honest. Dinning out has been horrible this past year or so, and this include the service. I think people are finally seeing this and refusing to pay and eat at home.

Not denying restaurant prices have increased.
 

Done-it-again

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I believe price adjustments will depend a lot on where the home is located. People are still bailing out of California by a rate of approx 120K per month (1.4 million annually) and moving to Red States. That number could double or triple if we hit a hard recession or depression and people start losing jobs 😱

States like Texas, Florida, Tennessee, Arizona etc will see prices flatten or dip slightly until a new administration takes over DC in 2025. I agree that Blue States like California, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Washington, etc could easily see the 10%-60% dip your speaking of by 2025.

I hope yore wrong!
I don’t see CA dropping 30-60%. 10-20% sure and that is pre covid pricing. To much overseas money still buying CA.
 

angiebaby

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We have dinner at Lawry’s in Beverly Hills Sunday. Will see if it’s busy.

To be honest. Dinning out has been horrible this past year or so, and this include the service. I think people are finally seeing this and refusing to pay and eat at home.

Not denying restaurant prices have increased.
This is us. Reason #1- many places are closed Mon-Tues due to staffing shortages. We consider going out these nights but remind ourselves that the restaurant is probably, or we are certain, closed. Reason #2- if it is open, like on a Fri-Sat, due to staffing shortages and fewer tables available, there is probably a huge wait. That leaves us with 3 nights a week to choose from if we want to eat out. Reason #3- Price versus food quality- The prices have gone up 25-30 percent, and the quality of the food has gone down by about the same percentage. Food is either overcooked, undercooked, or just "meh," edible but not an enjoyable experience for the price. Basically just a mediocre meal, but we don't have to cook or do dishes. We've found not doing dishes is no longer worth the price for a so-so meal. In response, we've found we prefer to spend more effort making nice meals at home.
 
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