Fatal on River nearBullhead-OUI

[cicchetti_24]

So when you send me PM's on this forum preaching to a stranger about a couple of my posts and ask me to call you at your office that is a personal opinion? Like I said in the PM stop trolling me and fuck off.

ding ding ding


This is exactly my point!

 

[BHC Vic]

I'll never understand why it's tough for people to wait until the boat is put away to start drinking. I take one beer for me in the cooler and rarely finish it because of how hot it gets. Yes that's drinking but I won't boat for another 4 hours after consuming it. My passengers can drink all they want and feel good knowing I'll get them home at day's end. You can't stop accidents but the chance of avoiding them is greater imho.

If I can stop drinking and smoking there is no excuse anyone can give me that's acceptable. Mr black out drunk who used to drink and smoke daily. I have a great time on the water without being altered 😎

 

[BHC Vic]

God bless this little girl and her family.

As to the DUI/BUI. As one of the non-drinkers here, I get it. I've walked in both set of shoes. Back in the day, I was "that guy." I had an epiphany and could have killed a handful of folks doing so. I was given a second chance. I quit completely. I have this obsessive personality, every thing I do, I do to the absolute reasonable limit. That included my drinking.

I couldn't even imagine boating or going out to dinner without drinking. As time went on, It became normal and now, don't miss it at all. Hell, I just got addicted to something else.

The loss of a child. . . Just try put yourself in the shoes of this family, yet here we are arguing about being able to drink and boat. Petty.

👍👍👍

 

[2FORCEFULL]

I'll never understand why it's tough for people to wait until the boat is put away to start drinking. I take one beer for me in the cooler and rarely finish it because of how hot it gets. Yes that's drinking but I won't boat for another 4 hours after consuming it. My passengers can drink all they want and feel good knowing I'll get them home at day's end. You can't stop accidents but the chance of avoiding them is greater imho.

If I was you, I wouldn't put the one beer in the cooler... some thing happens, first thing always said..was alchol involved? answer... we don't know for sure.... but he only had one beer left in his cooler

 

[Mr. C]

If I can stop drinking and smoking there is no excuse anyone can give me that's acceptable. Mr black out drunk who used to drink and smoke daily. I have a great time on the water without being altered 

Big huge difference in being a black out drunk and spreading out out 3-4 coors lights over 6-8 hours. Which I can do and not be drunk or altered.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

The fact of the matter is that someone crashed into someone else. The scapegoat is that the very first "cause" indicator is alcohol was a factor. This means that without alcohol it wouldn't have happened. This is the flaw in the data. There is no data that shows this individual would do anything differently sober. So like I said with or without alcohol people will continue to get into accidents. There are fatal accidents everyday with people who don't drink at all. This means there are bad drivers everywhere. These same bad drivers have a drink and go drive and it's suddenly the alcohols fault. There is no one size fits all like we are going for.

the point, or law is percentage..if you are not susposed to be there, and you are , you are 100% in the wrong,... and no matter what the other does... you will still be 100% guilty...

if you are sober and driving reckless, and so is the other... it becomes just and accident..lets say your drunk,..some kid runs a red light and you hit them....who's gonna believe you had the green??? first thing that will happen is you will get 100% blame..... because you and you car were not susposed to be on the road way...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Big huge difference in being a black out drunk and spreading out out 3-4 coors lights over 6-8 hours. Which I can do and not be drunk or altered.

nothing wrong with you or what your doing... but... if something happens they will use it against you..all beer drikers only drink 2 beers, the first one and the last one...

some don't remember how many in between so they don't answer..:skull

the real problem in havasu is the one sided patrol....they need to go out just like they do to catch drinkers.. and start handing out free tickets to the court house for people driving in an unpredictable , reckless manner....and citing parents for child endangerment that let they kids run off and go crazy ...those things go way too fast for aan un expericed young/old rider..


not say'n all,.. but odds say you would be hard pressed to find one kid on a jet ski that even knows one boating law... hell90% of the boating parents don't either..:eek

 

[2FORCEFULL]

here's what I say... first educate... then incriminate:thumbsup

 

[2FORCEFULL]

If I can stop drinking and smoking there is no excuse anyone can give me that's acceptable. Mr black out drunk who used to drink and smoke daily. I have a great time on the water without being altered 

I think you might get kicked in the balls here with that statement...but... good job buddy... that's bragg'n rights for sure:thumbsup

 

[2FORCEFULL]

I don't know if they still have it, mayby boat cop can answer...I haven't had a ticket in years, but I noticed every time I did get a ticket, and the cop put an X in the HBD box...

everyone else would get a small fine and no points on their record...me X in the box, full points and max fine:grumble::grumble::grumble::finger

 

[BHC Vic]

Big huge difference in being a black out drunk and spreading out out 3-4 coors lights over 6-8 hours. Which I can do and not be drunk or altered.

I'm not trying to argue I completely understand what you are saying. Back in the day it would take a 6pack just to get a buzz going. I don't know when I black out. At .26 I was not blacked out. At .34 I wasn't completely blacked out but it was pretty fuzzy. Beer effects people differently. The .34 was 19 shots and a couple beers. I know this because it was on the bar tab I walked out on which is why the police were called. On the other foot, my wife has one beer she's trashed

 

[BHC Vic]

I think you might get kicked in the balls here with that statement...but... good job buddy... that's bragg'n rights for sure:thumbsup

Was expecting it earlier. Seems like he new guy is taking all the heat though 😜😎

 

[SRice]

Still waiting on your email...

:rolleyes

Oh and, how about you post those statistics.

Eight OUI arrests out of 128 boats stopped- that's about one drunk boater per 16 vessels you encounter out on the water. Now scale that up to say 5,000 boats on a busy weekend.

 

[rivermobster]

Eight OUI arrests out of 128 boats stopped- that's about one drunk boater per 16 vessels you encounter out on the water. Now scale that up to say 5,000 boats on a busy weekend.

That's great.

When did this happen?

Now how exactly does that compare to the rest of the country during the same time interval?

Were these at check points, or normal encounters?

Holliday weekends? Or not?

Inquiring minds want to know...

 

[rivermobster]

God bless this little girl and her family.

As to the DUI/BUI. As one of the non-drinkers here, I get it. I've walked in both set of shoes. Back in the day, I was "that guy." I had an epiphany and could have killed a handful of folks doing so. I was given a second chance. I quit completely. I have this obsessive personality, every thing I do, I do to the absolute reasonable limit. That included my drinking.

I couldn't even imagine boating or going out to dinner without drinking. As time went on, It became normal and now, don't miss it at all. Hell, I just got addicted to something else.

The loss of a child. . . Just try put yourself in the shoes of this family, yet here we are arguing about being able to drink and boat. Petty.

X2

 

[yz450mm]

Eight OUI arrests out of 128 boats stopped- that's about one drunk boater per 16 vessels you encounter out on the water. Now scale that up to say 5,000 boats on a busy weekend.

That's only accurate if you stopped each and every boat on the water in that time period.

 

[SRice]

That's great.

When did this happen?

Now how exactly does that compare to the rest of the country during the same time interval?

Were these at check points, or normal encounters?

Holliday weekends? Or not?

Inquiring minds want to know...

This is from 6/25 Sobriety Checkpoint at Site 6.

 

[rivermobster]

This is from 6/25 Sobriety Checkpoint at Site 6.

Still doesn't back up your statement.

Could we see the actual stats your referencing please?

 

[SRice]

That's only accurate if you stopped each and every boat on the water in that time period.

Protocol is to start with every boat that enters the marked zone. If officers are overwhelmed, only every 2nd or 3rd boat is sent in. So you do have the random selection aspect that a statistician would want to see before attempting to extrapolate to a larger population.

 

[SRice]

Still doesn't back up your statement.

Could we see the actual stats your referencing please?

AZGFD indicated they will be releasing a press statement. I asked for and received approval to give arrest and boat numbers only and will let agency release the rest as they deem appropriate.

 

[Joker]

Eight OUI arrests out of 128 boats stopped- that's about one drunk boater per 16 vessels you encounter out on the water. Now scale that up to say 5,000 boats on a busy weekend.

Out of curiosity, is there any idea of approximately how many boaters used the ramp while the tests were being conducted and are there officers watching who decides not to use the ramp due to the checkpoint? I'm not sure if there's a way to back out at that point as we don't boat in Havasu.

 

[rivermobster]

AZGFD indicated they will be releasing a press statement. I asked for and received approval to give arrest and boat numbers only and will let agency release the rest as they deem appropriate.

Your Statement was Havasu is the most dangerous place in the country. Don't forget to include all the other check point data as well.

Hate to think you were just talking out of your ass when you made a statement like that.

We will be waiting...

 

[SRice]

Your Statement was Havasu is the most dangerous place in the country. Don't forget to include all the other check point data as well.

Hate to think you were just talking out of your ass when you made a statement like that.

We will be waiting...

River mobster, I was asked earlier in this thread for numbers on the Site 6 checkpoint. I have provided the number of arrests and number of boaters contacted. The protocol probably makes it statistically reasonable to cautiously extrapolate a bit beyond the actual sample size, in my opinion. Your question about the relative safety of Lake Havasu is best answered by looking at data compiled annually by the US Coast Guard. Havasu News Herald ran an article a few weeks back about the current stats, but without quoting. If you care to do your own Google search of "Havasu most dangerous waterway" you will find articles stating that historically Havasu has been ranked the 6th most dangerous waterway in the US and that the Colorado River, Mohave Lake, Lake Mead, and Lake Powell all made the top 15 most dangerous waterways (in fact I think all were near the top of the list). I'll let you do some of your own homework since each question I answer for you (i.e. "Prove you're a cop.", "Prove your badge isn't fake."etc) seems to just lead to another.

 

[SRice]

Out of curiosity, is there any idea of approximately how many boaters used the ramp while the tests were being conducted and are there officers watching who decides not to use the ramp due to the checkpoint? I'm not sure if there's a way to back out at that point as we don't boat in Havasu.

Joker, buoys were placed on the Arizona side of the lake outside the marina itself. Any vessel entering the zone was subject to being directed to an officer waiting on the shore. Captured primarily boats passing the island and going south to north, but also a few boaters who violated nav rules by running south along the Arizona shoreline. I don't believe anybody launching was directed back in but I am not 100% on that. Once a boater does enter the marked zone, they may not simply decide to back out.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Eight OUI arrests out of 128 boats stopped- that's about one drunk boater per 16 vessels you encounter out on the water. Now scale that up to say 5,000 boats on a busy weekend.

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

You just caught the 6 people to drunk to avoid the checkpoint. Maybe you caught all of the OUI offenders. And why 5000 boats, why not 1500 to make the numbers bigger?

 

[OCMerrill]

May this 14 year old Girl RIP. As I read through the various news stuff it appears she was not operating.

Years ago a beer or two here or there, throughout the day while on the river was really no big deal. Then I had kids and decided while they are on the boat I don't need beer. This is what got me into iced tea and different brews to take along. My wife hates beer so it was pretty easy.

So 6 years ago, minus a couple months, I became involved in a 10 ton vessel and because I can drive fairly well and have Ocean experience I am elected to do just that, drive or captain or Pilot or whatever you call it. Beer? Yeah...no.

 

[SRice]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

You just caught the 6 people to drunk to avoid the checkpoint. Maybe you caught all of the OUI offenders. And why 5000 boats, why not 1500 to make the numbers bigger?

You're misusing that particular fallacy, but you are correct that proving causation would require both a random sample from population and random application of an experimental treatment. In this case, I'm just talking about statistical sampling. I took graduate level stats too and hoped I'd never use it as a cop. The 5000 is a wild ass guess. I've read 2-3 million users per year and know more people use the Lake in June than January, so I don't think 5000 on 4th of July is An exaggeration but take 6% of whatever number you believe is accurate. It's still gonna be too many.

 

[MSum661]

SRice, since you're already here on this thread just wanted to squeeze in a quick question for you.
Any word when the public might see the MOU regarding the HNWR? Thx.

 

[Taboma]

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

You just caught the 6 people to drunk to avoid the checkpoint. Maybe you caught all of the OUI offenders. And why 5000 boats, why not 1500 to make the numbers bigger?

I've watched this operation while sitting on my deck. Essentially you're not going to know you're in it, until you are. Oh sure there's a couple of buoys spread out in a line far apart. There's also a few guys you won't recognize as cops on jet skis hovering around, but they won't approach you until you're passed the buoy line --- gotcha. The afternoon I was watching it didn't seem to me that any boats intentionally turned away as if they suddenly realized what was up.

From the lake you're not going to see the action taking place further back in the bay at Site 6 until you drive in the bay. Looking down the lake as you'd approach it wouldn't really appear as if anything was going on ---- unless you notice what seems to be a few extra jet skis hovering around.

I was really hoping somebody in a big cat would unwisely decide to pull off an late afternoon banzai run just to watch everybody scatter

 

[rivermobster]

River mobster, I was asked earlier in this thread for numbers on the Site 6 checkpoint. I have provided the number of arrests and number of boaters contacted. The protocol probably makes it statistically reasonable to cautiously extrapolate a bit beyond the actual sample size, in my opinion. Your question about the relative safety of Lake Havasu is best answered by looking at data compiled annually by the US Coast Guard. Havasu News Herald ran an article a few weeks back about the current stats, but without quoting. If you care to do your own Google search of "Havasu most dangerous waterway" you will find articles stating that historically Havasu has been ranked the 6th most dangerous waterway in the US and that the Colorado River, Mohave Lake, Lake Mead, and Lake Powell all made the top 15 most dangerous waterways (in fact I think all were near the top of the list). I'll let you do some of your own homework since each question I answer for you (i.e. "Prove you're a cop.", "Prove your badge isn't fake."etc) seems to just lead to another.

Well there is good reason for that, and I'd say statistically reasonable to extrapolate from your posts (with all due respect), you're totally full of shit! lol

But, I did take your advice...

http://www.uscgboating.org/library/accident-statistics/Recreational-Boating-Statistics-2015.pdf

On page 70, you'll see the stats posted for fatalities vs. actual registration numbers. Looks like CA and AZ are pretty low. There are some states with MUCH higher % numbers than us, so I would say the river is a pretty safe place to be.

There are some REAL surprises in that document though. The PWC accident numbers, are far lower than I thought they would be. And, the age of boaters involved in accidents?? Well, so much for it being the kids! :yikes The experience numbers are surprising too, who woulda thought the boaters with the most experience, are the ones with the most accidents.

I like how the total number of boating accidents has dropped steadily, since they started compiling this data. Good on us as boaters for sure. :thumbsup

Also, alcohol is about half as likely to get you into an accident, as Operator inattention is.

Quite a few surprises here all in all. Not Including the accuracy of your posts. :rolleyes

Have a nice day.

 

[2Driver]

Eight OUI arrests out of 128 boats stopped .

More accurately expressed:

128 presumed guilty people were detained for interrogation. After a detailed intrusion, 120 were determined to be innocent and had to be let go.

Hate Drunks & Hate loss of freedoms. Not sure what to do, but if everyone stopped driving drunk both would go away and AZGF could go back to educating us about zebra mussels.

 

[460]

Wonder if people would still place blame on the pwc operators if it was their child or someone's close that was killed by a drunk idiot. No matter how you shake it someone drinking killed someone.

 

[Ballyhoo]

Your Statement was Havasu is the most dangerous place in the country. Don't forget to include all the other check point data as well.

Hate to think you were just talking out of your ass when you made a statement like that.

We will be waiting...

It sounded like he gave his opinion based on his many years as a LEO, on several different waterways in the U.S.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

Found something Arizona is really good at.

http://azdailysun.com/six-of-most-d...cle_ee47a1f6-3778-5dac-b26c-af5d62358ec0.html

 

[SBMech]

Found something Arizona is really good at.

http://azdailysun.com/six-of-most-d...cle_ee47a1f6-3778-5dac-b26c-af5d62358ec0.html

Good at fluff?

1.5 million boaters a year at Havasu with (according to the article) 150 accidents per year.... .001%.

Seems like it's pretty fucking safe to me rofl.

Your odds of getting mugged or in a car accident are far higher than that. :thumbsup

 

[poncho]

That's why they call them accidents, it was. Problem is if you are over the limit you are the bad guy regardless of cause.

Been out on the Atlantic the last 3 weekends with a bunch of guests, last weekend we tied up to a really popular waterfront restaurant and everyone was getting their freak on, tough not to join in.

My friend asked why I was taking it easy and I told him "I promise you I will get you and your kids home safe", when this thing is in it's slip we will have a good time......to me its that easy.

I just reread this and the kid thing might be misleading, they are 17 and 19 and have more ocean time than most fisherman...irregardless they are getting home safe.

 

[hallett21]

First and foremost RIP to that little girl and prayers to the family.

Does anyone have an accurate amount of boaters who use any Arizona waterway per year?

According to the Coast Guard Website between Bullhead and Parker there have been the following number of accidents from 2011-2015. This data doesn't say how the accident occurred.


2015- 42 Accidents. Vessels Involved 65. Deaths 2

2014- 32 Accidents. Vessels Involved 44. Deaths 2

2013- 36 Accidents. Vessels Involved 61. Deaths 3

2012- 25 Accidents. Vessels Involved 39. Deaths 1

2011- 61 Accidents. Vessels involved 93. Deaths 3

Its also hard to tell exactly where the accidents happened on the website. For instance some years give a total for Lake Havasu and others actually break it down by location i.e. Site six, Cattail Cove etc. In all these numbers I included the Colorado River stat as well. Not sure if that number is double counted since Havasu Bullhead and Parker are part of the Colorado River.

Looking at these numbers boating seems pretty safe to me. Now I also know you can manipulate stats to show whatever you want.

Obviously there are much more cars than boats but according to CA.gov there were 3,074 traffic fatalities in 2014.





https://bard.cns-inc.com/Screens/PublicInterface/Report1.aspx

http://www.ots.ca.gov/OTS_and_Traffic_Safety/Score_Card.asp

 

[rrrr]

Well there is good reason for that, and I'd say statistically reasonable to extrapolate from your posts (with all due respect), you're totally full of shit! lol

But, I did take your advice...

http://www.uscgboating.org/library/accident-statistics/Recreational-Boating-Statistics-2015.pdf

Also, alcohol is about half as likely to get you into an accident, as Operator inattention is.

Quite a few surprises here all in all. Not Including the accuracy of your posts. :rolleyes

Have a nice day.

.


As I said in earlier posts, "accident" means hitting a dock, running aground, driving the boat over the trailer, and all sorts of other minor incidents. You've ignored the statistic on page 22 which shows that alcohol use is the cause of most deaths. Ninety one people were killed in "accidents" where alcohol was the primary contributing factor, fifty eight were killed in incidents categorized as operator inattention.

There are several posts in this thread where posters argue that alcohol use is incidental to accidents caused by other factors, and it's just bad luck some poor bastard was caught at .085. But on page 25 it also shows that 122 people were killed in incidents where alcohol was a contributing factor.

Add the 122 to the 90 killed in incidents where alcohol use was the primary cause, and you have a nice number of 212 people killed in 2015 alcohol related incidents.

The report also says alcohol was the primary cause of death in 17% of fatal accidents, more than any other cause. (page 6)

So you guys just keep convincing yourselves that it's not a problem and users are getting a bum rap. Posters are actually defending the guy that killed a little girl, yet a witness saw him dumping his alcohol in the river after the fatal crash.

 

[460]

.


As I said in earlier posts, "accident" means hitting a dock, running aground, driving the boat over the trailer, and all sorts of other minor incidents. You've ignored the statistic on page 22 which shows that alcohol use is the cause of most deaths. Ninety one people were killed in "accidents" where alcohol was the primary contributing factor, fifty eight were killed in incidents categorized as operator inattention.

There are several posts in this thread where posters argue that alcohol use is incidental to accidents caused by other factors, and it's just bad luck some poor bastard was caught at .085. But on page 25 it also shows that 122 people were killed in incidents where alcohol was a contributing factor.

Add the 122 to the 90 killed in incidents where alcohol use was the primary cause, and you have a nice number of 212 people killed in 2015 alcohol related incidents.

The report also says alcohol was the primary cause of death in 17% of fatal accidents, more than any other cause. (page 6)

So you guys just keep convincing yourselves that it's not a problem and users are getting a bum rap. Posters are actually defending the guy that killed a little girl, yet a witness saw him dumping his alcohol in the river after the fatal crash.

Pretty ridiculous. Nevermind the dude was drunk, pwc riders don't know what they are doing.

 

[rivermobster]

.


As I said in earlier posts, "accident" means hitting a dock, running aground, driving the boat over the trailer, and all sorts of other minor incidents. You've ignored the statistic on page 22 which shows that alcohol use is the cause of most deaths. Ninety one people were killed in "accidents" where alcohol was the primary contributing factor, fifty eight were killed in incidents categorized as operator inattention.

There are several posts in this thread where posters argue that alcohol use is incidental to accidents caused by other factors, and it's just bad luck some poor bastard was caught at .085. But on page 25 it also shows that 122 people were killed in incidents where alcohol was a contributing factor.

Add the 122 to the 90 killed in incidents where alcohol use was the primary cause, and you have a nice number of 212 people killed in 2015 alcohol related incidents.

The report also says alcohol was the primary cause of death in 17% of fatal accidents, more than any other cause. (page 6)

So you guys just keep convincing yourselves that it's not a problem and users are getting a bum rap. Posters are actually defending the guy that killed a little girl, yet a witness saw him dumping his alcohol in the river after the fatal crash.

You should read it again grasshopper...

There is a Big difference between primary cause and contributing factor.

This this issue was pointed out earlier in this thread, and you have your facts confused.

[emoji4]

 

[BajaT]

What I am hearing is that without any known facts, some believe it is possible that the boat operator may have broken the law (oui) but that it is possible he may not be responsible for causing the collision. Like lawfully entering an intersection dui and a sober driver runs red light and tags you. Others here are pissed for people having these thoughts. Is an illegal immigrant responsible for his own assault if he gets assaulted because he is here unlawfully? Are u partially responsible for your own stabbing if you enter a bar under influence of cocaine but minding your own business and someone does not like you and stabs you?

Accountability....


Prayers to the family of the lil one...

 

[SRice]

SRice, since you're already here on this thread just wanted to squeeze in a quick question for you.
Any word when the public might see the MOU regarding the HNWR? Thx.

What MOU are you talking about? Virtually anything is available through FOIA but I am not author on any MOU and of no direct help.

 

[Riverson]

?Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are pliable.?
― Mark Twain

Take responsibility numbers can be distorted to prove almost any premise.

Drinking and driving a Preformance Boat is ignorant, and why ruin the speed rush with a beer buzz?

I drink but never while captain. My crew has one person stay 100% sober, the rest can drink like fish. Driving a boat that costs well over 100k and goes 75++ drunk...it just sounds stupid!

Just my opinion.

 

[Advantage 1]

Statistics from AGFD. Since lots of us boat in AZ, here are their numbers. Inexperienced boaters are far more dangerous than drinking and boating. These are just snapshots from the reports, but if you want the full report, send me your email. Could not get 2010 or anything for 2012 +

2004



2005



2006



2007



2008



2009






2011

 

[rrrr]

You should read it again grasshopper...

There is a Big difference between primary cause and contributing factor.

This this issue was pointed out earlier in this thread, and you have your facts confused.

[emoji4]

Page 22, 91 deaths where alcohol was the "primary contributing factor" (also on page 7). Page 25, 112 deaths where "Alcohol use as a contributing factor".

There is a statement in the Executive Summary on page 6 which indicates these are two separate categories.

I'm not confused at all.

 

[rivermobster]

Page 22, 91 deaths where alcohol was the "primary contributing factor" (also on page 7). Page 25, 112 deaths where "Alcohol use as a contributing factor".

There is a statement in the Executive Summary on page 6 which indicates these are two separate categories.

I'm not confused at all.

So you realize that a contributing factor, is what Grads described...

Someone out minding their own Damm business, maybe a little buzzed, and someone else (the primary cause), causes the accident.

Now they are fucked, for nothing they did or caused.

Seems a bit unfair to me, since it IS legal to drink and drive on the water.

You are aware of all this, correct?

 

[BHC Vic]

So you realize that a contributing factor, is what Grads described...

Someone out minding their own Damm business, maybe a little buzzed, and someone else (the primary cause), causes the accident.

Now they are fucked, for nothing they did or caused.

Seems a bit unfair to me, since it IS legal to drink and drive on the water.

You are aware of all this, correct?

Legal... but stupid,irresponsible, and selfish... Can we agree to that? 😊

 

[rrrr]

What I am hearing is that without any known facts, some believe it is possible that the boat operator may have broken the law (oui) but that it is possible he may not be responsible for causing the collision.

It's not just possible he was drunk, it's a fact. From the Havasu News:

Police say the driver of the boat was charged with operating a watercraft while intoxicated.

 

[rivermobster]

Legal... but stupid,irresponsible, and selfish... Can we agree to that? 😊

Let's just say it's something I'd never do. The risk is too great in this world we live in.

Why take the chance of putting yourself in that situation? There is just way too much to loose.

So yeah, you're probably right. [emoji6]

 

[460]

So you realize that a contributing factor, is what Grads described...

Someone out minding their own Damm business, maybe a little buzzed, and someone else (the primary cause), causes the accident.

Now they are fucked, for nothing they did or caused.

Seems a bit unfair to me, since it IS legal to drink and drive on the water.

You are aware of all this, correct?

You are starting to sound like Dave. It's very unbecoming of you.