Fatal on River nearBullhead-OUI

[Mr. C]

So far there are only two known facts about the incident, one, a thirteen year old girl was killed, and two, the person that struck and killed her was drunk.

The number of posters ignoring those facts while substituting their own versions of events is disturbing to say the least.

Actually it said he was intoxicated:rolleyes I didn't see a BAC in the article. He could of only been .07(also could of been .23) but because he was in an accident he' gonna get screwed either way.

just sayin.



RIP little one!!

 

[riverroyal]

It is statements like this from people who represent agencies that are supposed to keep the lake safe that get to me.
I have several family friends that refuse to go to Havasu or Parker because they read on the Internet it is not safe for families.
Granted you state it is your opinion, but as an employee of the federal government your opinion should not even be stated in threads like this. You need to take a lesson from BoatCop, he kept to the facts until he retired.
I have been boating Havasu with my kids for over 15 years without any safety concerns. With that said you have to pick your location and weekends but IMO that is normal for any large lake. I saw more accidents during college when I boated the Chain of Lakes in Chicago then I do in Havasu.

to the lower river due to MY personal safety concerns. I also will not go to Parker for the same reasons. Avoiding a boat accident mean your either turn left or right, neither of these places have the option. I have no issues with safe boating on Havasu. I do not boat on holidays, I will be there just on the beach.

 

[sirbob]

Come on - the statements here are all over the board with blame and cause.

The fact is based on the FACTS posted in this thread we really don't know what happened other than a girl was killed and somebody was arrested.

Peace be with the young girl and her family...[emoji120]

 

[cicchetti_24]

It is statements like this from people who represent agencies that are supposed to keep the lake safe that get to me.
I have several family friends that refuse to go to Havasu or Parker because they read on the Internet it is not safe for families.
Granted you state it is your opinion, but as an employee of the federal government your opinion should not even be stated in threads like this. You need to take a lesson from BoatCop, he kept to the facts until he retired.
I have been boating Havasu with my kids for over 15 years without any safety concerns. With that said you have to pick your location and weekends but IMO that is normal for any large lake. I saw more accidents during college when I boated the Chain of Lakes in Chicago then I do in Havasu.

Couldn't have said it any better myself...

His comments make me feel like they are looking for ways to shut this down all together.

 

[grumpy88]

Personally Id like to see a boating drivers license. For all things on water. I have NO issues taking a test, written or otherwise. If it means the other boaters have had the same test I would welcome it.
DONT start with the 'its another level of government crap' either. If you are operating a boat you should have a boat license, pretty simple. That includes all RENTALs. If that kills the rental businesses oh well. Would it save lives? yes. Stop drunk operators? no.

ANYONE can go into a dealer and buy a boat and be on the water that day. ZERO experience required. That has never made sense to me. 70mph PWC's that anyone can finance, stupid.

In the late 90s I volunteered with the SD harbor patrol teaching jet ski safety. At that time mission bay was a absolute disaster with these things. I did it for about a year, this was while I was racing so it also got me ' get out jail card' when we practiced at mission bay. I knew all the patrol guys. I couldn't do it anymore, the amount of common sense you need to operate a PWC was just too much for most people. The entire idea of giving it gas to turn was beyond most people. They turn the bars and slow down to believe they will turn, this really doesn't work.
So, in a panic situation, which this tragedy may have been the brain and reaction is to NOT give the machine more throttle. Your reaction is this will make it worse. So, no throttle and turn the bars. Its then too late. Boats are similar, there are no brakes and turning the wheel is more effective due to the 'rutter' you have hanging off the back. But you still DONT drive it like a car. Unfortunately the new boater has no idea, all they know is how to avoid a accident in a car.

Everyones a bad ass driving a boat or PWC, no way these volunteer training courses will make a difference. It needs to be mandatory or get a ticket. Save one life and sign me up for a license

I'm just curious but do you think people should have to obtain a safety class or special license to operate a dirt bike or sxs to go off roading ?

 

[Sleek-Jet]

There is no evidence showing a license requirement would have prevented this accident.

Nor any evidence pointing to who was at fault.

 

[JD D05]

It is statements like this from people who represent agencies that are supposed to keep the lake safe that get to me.
I have several family friends that refuse to go to Havasu or Parker because they read on the Internet it is not safe for families.
Granted you state it is your opinion, but as an employee of the federal government your opinion should not even be stated in threads like this. You need to take a lesson from BoatCop, he kept to the facts until he retired.
I have been boating Havasu with my kids for over 15 years without any safety concerns. With that said you have to pick your location and weekends but IMO that is normal for any large lake. I saw more accidents during college when I boated the Chain of Lakes in Chicago then I do in Havasu.

Perfect.

 

[boatnam2]

Horrible news and to the little girl may her soul RIP.

 

[riverroyal]

I'm just curious but do you think people should have to obtain a safety class or special license to operate a dirt bike or sxs to go off roading ?

I haven't really thought about it. If your on private property no. On a track like PALA where you pay and sign in, no. I believe SxS you must be 16 I think, so yes I do think you should have some type of certification. A normal drivers license possibly would be enough since it operates like a car and 'should' be insured. Dirt bikes, Im really not sure how I feel. Most accidents on these only hurt the operator. Its your own risk, if you get hurt its on you. If you hit someone due to inexperience then it gets ugly.

I know this a slippery slope with members here and the civil liberties debates. Im not gonna solve anything or get in that conversation. But I do feel something can change, it can get better.
AZ law is no one under 12 can operate a water craft / boat with over 8HP. 12 seems very very low to me. I know guys have kids that can drive great, but for the typical 12 year old they cant. Unfortunately there are dumb parents (and non parents) out there and it takes a law to compensate for the lack of common sense. I very rarely see kids driving boats on havasu, when I do its midweek and they look safe to me. Now PWC is completely opposite. But you cant separate the 2.

I sat with Sea Doo 20 years ago to discuss the long term effects of PWC's getting faster, heavier and more dangerous. The out come was we all felt it would be just like the 3 wheelers Honda got crushed over. Its profit verses pay out, they went profit as did all the other. Early lawsuits on PWC were based on design flaws, you cant stop or steer. But you also bought it and the disclaimers are everywhere on the units. Similar to ATV's with the 'no passenger' signs mold into the seats. They didn't have that in the beginning.
I helped with early testing with see doo on sponsons that would pop out during steering and a braking system. They claimed it was for performance, it was actually to avoid the ever increasing lawsuits.

I do know the motorcycle manufactures offer training courses when you make the initial purchase. They are typically free from what I remember. But NOBODY takes them, theres no law saying you have too.
If you have a street bike you need a license, its a tough argument to say just because its dirt and not asphalt under you that a license is not required. Except the street license has taxes associated with it for roads etc.

yeah I don't know...for me personally if I needed a license or cert for a dirt bike I wouldn't have a problem with it. I know a lot would. In my head it I would be thinking 'ok i just had a accident, dirt bike verse dirt bike' I had training and the other guy didn't. When this goes to court which it will, I want that piece of paper.
I would like to think a license for a boat or bike would actually teach you a few things, right of way etc. Maybe this eliminates some accidents. Maybe

 

[riverroyal]

There is no evidence showing a license requirement would have prevented this accident.

Nor any evidence pointing to who was at fault.

but acquiring a license or certification means you may have more operation knowledge which CAN help to avoid accident. Not WILL avoid them just help

 

[Singleton]

but acquiring a license or certification means you may have more operation knowledge which CAN help to avoid accident. Not WILL avoid them just help

While I agree with this, IMO the major issue is inexperienced operators. CA now has a law phasing in licenses for boat operators, however renters are excluded. If you need a DL to rent a car, you should need the boat license to rent a boat/PWC. Yet CA excluded that group.
Education will help, but accidents occurs so this will not stop but maybe decrease. AZ usually follows CA (due to political pressure), so I am sure AZ will have a boat operator law within 5 years. Hopefully they get it right and do something about renters.

 

[On Cruise]

Personal watercraft are often operated by inexperienced operators,as JETS are a different animal and letting off the throttle does not cut it. The Missouri River banned the use of them on certain parts of the River which was celebrated by most back there. according to the Bullhead City Council and BHC Police Dept. 90% of watercraft are rentals and getting worse.I have heard many visitors state what a gross destroying of a beautiful waterway.This will continue and probably get worse.Many comments here are being made by members who do not live here and do not live this Cluster Fuck on a daily basic.The City of Bullhead should never have allowed the rentals in the first place.

 

[cicchetti_24]

but acquiring a license or certification means you may have more operation knowledge which CAN help to avoid accident. Not WILL avoid them just help

When I use to sell boats back in the early 00's we talked about this a lot.

I always felt there should be a safety/Operational course that new boaters should take.

When we delivered boats we would spend time on the water showing and talking to the new boat owners about operation and rules of the water way. It was never enough. I'd like to see some incentive maybe by the Insurance companies or something to encourage people to get educated. Will it fix all? No not at all, but maybe we can limit the accidents and make boating safer for all.

 

[5oclocksomewhere]

While I agree with this, IMO the major issue is inexperienced operators. CA now has a law phasing in licenses for boat operators, however renters are excluded. If you need a DL to rent a car, you should need the boat license to rent a boat/PWC. Yet CA excluded that group.
Education will help, but accidents occurs so this will not stop but maybe decrease. AZ usually follows CA (due to political pressure), so I am sure AZ will have a boat operator law within 5 years. Hopefully they get it right and do something about renters.

This is so typical of that stupid fucking California. The people who rent are the least experienced and need the license and training the most (not saying that we all couldn't us it). This type of California legislature is why that state is so fucked up anymore.

 

[PaPaG]

http://www.havasunews.com/news/bull...cle_be76fb2c-3ba7-11e6-93b0-abb2c1ee4eaa.html

Poor little girl, may she rest in peace.

AN IDIOT that felt that he could drink and drive and even more so I bet justify it by saying something idiotic like "I drive better drunk or I drive better with some alcohol than most inexperienced boaters that don't drink" needs to be put away for 25 years and make an example out of him.....I am sure the little girls dad would have him put to sleep if he had his say, and he would deserve it.......ANYONE that makes stupid statements or actually feel that way are nothing but IDIOTS.

AMAZING that so many idiots that drink and drive still defend their actions or blame anything else but the drive being LEGALLY DRUNK.... If one of their loved ones got killed by a drunk driver on the roads or waterways I am sure they would be changing their tune...I pray that never happens and these idiots come to their senses. Just sick and tired of all the idiots that say it is ok to drink TO THE POINT that they are impaired and drive.

 

[Bigbore500r]

I can tell you this - I treat all PWC's the same as i treat kids playing in the street. I never assume they are going to do anything, and I never rule out the fact that they are going to dart out into me at any time. I don't overtake them on the river until i know they have made eye contact with me and then scoot over. Even then....proceed with caution and give tons of room. And if its busy with oncoming traffic or multiple PWC's in front...I just slow down and keep my distance. Especially when you can see its a PWC with 3 youngsters on it / etc.

It's an accident waiting to happen and I dont want to be the guy who runs them over, even if they are at fault.

It's all you can do. Yea it sucks but better safe than sorry. As the facts 2FF posted about waterway rules show - no matter how stupid they are driving, if they are in front of you they are the stand on vessel and you're at fault if your passing and clip one.

 

[purrfecttremor]

The person driving the PWC was 42 years old. As for DC-88's answer, there has been no indication that the PWC was a rental. Several other posters have blamed the crash on driver inexperience or claimed that it was a rental without any factual basis.

So far there are only two known facts about the incident, one, a thirteen year old girl was killed, and two, the person that struck and killed her was dru
The number of posters ignoring those facts while substituting their own versions of events is disturbing to say the least.

Believe me when I say I don't approve of drinking and driving however I have been the victim of inexperienced jet skiers and have been t boned twice on the Parker strip.

In the article from Saturday it states the boat driver was intoxicated. Does that simply mean his BAC exceeded .08?
The way things are today I believe even if the driver was below .08 and there was a fatality he would be charged anyway. Am I correct?

 

[On Cruise]

Poor little girl, may she rest in peace.

AN IDIOT that felt that he could drink and drive and even more so I bet justify it by saying something idiotic like "I drive better drunk or I drive better with some alcohol than most inexperienced boaters that don't drink" needs to be put away for 25 years and make an example out of him.....I am sure the little girls dad would have him put to sleep if he had his say, and he would deserve it.......ANYONE that makes stupid statements or actually feel that way are nothing but IDIOTS.

AMAZING that so many idiots that drink and drive still defend their actions or blame anything else but the drive being LEGALLY DRUNK.... If one of their loved ones got killed by a drunk driver on the roads or waterways I am sure they would be changing their tune...I pray that never happens and these idiots come to their senses. Just sick and tired of all the idiots that say it is ok to drink TO THE POINT that they are impaired and drive.

SO YOU KNOW SHE DID NOT BLOW OFF THE BEACH RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM WITHOUT LOOKING FIRST?

Maybe some day this same thing happens to you when stone sober and will be interesting the outcome.

Come up here and sit on the beach at Davis Camp and witness all the responsible jet ski operators and all the drunk boat operators:grumble::skull

 

[relaxalot]

RIP to the little girl. Life is fragile... boating is filled with risks.. those risks are increased when drinking and driving occurs... be safe out there!

 

[underpressure]

Couldn't have said it any better myself...

His comments make me feel like they are looking for ways to shut this down all together.

^^^^

I had exactly the same thought. We don't need any more LEO's with a predisposed opinion about boating on Havasu. Note that in an earlier thread he also commented about having a 35mph speed limit.

If you don't want to boat on Havasu in your personal time, please don't. And please leave your bias at home when you're working "for the people"...

 

[cicchetti_24]

^^^^

I had exactly the same thought. We don't need any more LEO's with a predisposed opinion about boating on Havasu. Note that in an earlier thread he also commented about having a 35mph speed limit.

If you don't want to boat on Havasu in your personal time, please don't. And please leave your bias at home when you're working "for the people"...

We already have a 35 mph here in CA on some of our lakes.

I don't like his approach here on this forum, and I don't feel it's very genuine at all.

It feels like he is here to get an idea on how we do things so he can report to his higher ups. In a lot of his posts he posts personal opinions and what he believes should be done. I get he has an opinion like the rest of us, but when you are in his position and you start stating those opinions publicly it just leads me to believe you have ulterior motives on why you are here.

 

[SRice]

Unfortunately this is and will always be a hot debate item. People have been dying in boats and automobiles since they were invented. If alcohol disappears off the planet the fact is people will still get in fatal accidents. Just a fact of being human. There is absolutely no proof that without alcohol there are less accidents. Just the fact that x amount of people who were in accidents had alcohol in their systems. So for argument purposes the boat operator had alcohol in his system and or dumped it after the accident. No matter what he is now at fault. Scapegoat system we live in.

Aka619er, I'm sorry but claiming OUI/DUI does not cause accidents is one of the most absurd, irresponsible things I've ever read. Fact is, anybody above a .05 BAC is impaired and more likely to cause an accident and that is why hard drinking countries like Ireland and Australia have already lowered the DUI threshold to that level. The fact that you have not read any of the research does not mean that there is not a huge amount of research documenting the dangers of drinking and driving/boating. You can start with the literature cited here by the CDC if you are sincere about your skepticism and would like to educate yourself. http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm And of course there will still be accidents, but if the number of families mourning a dead child can be reduced 25% or more then only an amoral narcissist would argue that their right to get drunk outweighs the rights of every other man, woman, child on the water.

 

[SRice]

It is statements like this from people who represent agencies that are supposed to keep the lake safe that get to me.
I have several family friends that refuse to go to Havasu or Parker because they read on the Internet it is not safe for families.
Granted you state it is your opinion, but as an employee of the federal government your opinion should not even be stated in threads like this. You need to take a lesson from BoatCop, he kept to the facts until he retired.
I have been boating Havasu with my kids for over 15 years without any safety concerns. With that said you have to pick your location and weekends but IMO that is normal for any large lake. I saw more accidents during college when I boated the Chain of Lakes in Chicago then I do in Havasu.

I do not represent my agency when I respond on my own time and explicitly state that I am offering my own opinion. Were I in agreement with you, I suspect you would celebrate my defection but regardless every person in this country has a right to have and express an opinion, and I shall continue to do so. I was a boating officer in Florida and worked on a boat in Alaska. A coworker was Coast Guard in multiple jurisdictions and we both agree that Lake Havasu is the scariest place we've worked on the water. if you don't like anecdotal evididence, that's fine- take a look instead at national statistics compiled by the Coast Guard. Year after year, Havasu is one of the most dangerous waterways in America.

 

[Singleton]

I do not represent my agency when I respond on my own time and explicitly state that I am offering my own opinion. Were I in agreement with you, I suspect you would celebrate my defection but regardless every person in this country has a right to have and express an opinion, and I shall continue to do so. I was a boating officer in Florida and worked on a boat in Alaska. A coworker was Coast Guard in multiple jurisdictions and we both agree that Lake Havasu is the scariest place we've worked on the water. if you don't like anecdotal evididence, that's fine- take a look instead at national statistics compiled by the Coast Guard. Year after year, Havasu is one of the most dangerous waterways in America.

For someone in your position, you don't get to have a personal opinion. You represent a federal agency on and off the clock!
Example, I work for a very large software company in a senior sales leadership position and while I agree and sometimes disagree with decisions the company makes, I don't get personal opinions on those decisions. That is a huge CLM, since I represent the company 24/7 until I leave the company.

 

[JD D05]

I do not represent my agency when I respond on my own time and explicitly state that I am offering my own opinion. Were I in agreement with you, I suspect you would celebrate my defection but regardless every person in this country has a right to have and express an opinion, and I shall continue to do so. I was a boating officer in Florida and worked on a boat in Alaska. A coworker was Coast Guard in multiple jurisdictions and we both agree that Lake Havasu is the scariest place we've worked on the water. if you don't like anecdotal evididence, that's fine- take a look instead at national statistics compiled by the Coast Guard. Year after year, Havasu is one of the most dangerous waterways in America.

So when you send me PM's on this forum preaching to a stranger about a couple of my posts and ask me to call you at your office that is a personal opinion? Like I said in the PM stop trolling me and fuck off.

 

[AEA]

For someone in your position, you don't get to have a personal opinion. You represent a federal agency on and off the clock!
Example, I work for a very large software company in a senior sales leadership position and while I agree and sometimes disagree with decisions the company makes, I don't get personal opinions on those decisions. That is a huge CLM, since I represent the company 24/7 until I leave the company.

Your example is valid for your situation, not his. He gets to express his opinion. He has not been castrated by his employer as have some others have.

 

[PaPaG]

SO YOU KNOW SHE DID NOT BLOW OFF THE BEACH RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM WITHOUT LOOKING FIRST?

Maybe some day this same thing happens to you when stone sober and will be interesting the outcome.

Come up here and sit on the beach at Davis Camp and witness all the responsible jet ski operators and all the drunk boat operators:grumble::skull

Who gives a shit, the drunk killed a little girl, chances are if he was not DRUNK DRIVING he could have possibly avoided it. Again with the excuses for Drunk Drivers. I have been on the river, lake Mohave and Mead all my life so trust me I have seen it all NOTHING EXCUSES a DRUNK DRIVER.

 

[PaPaG]

SO YOU KNOW SHE DID NOT BLOW OFF THE BEACH RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIM WITHOUT LOOKING FIRST?

Maybe some day this same thing happens to you when stone sober and will be interesting the outcome.

Come up here and sit on the beach at Davis Camp and witness all the responsible jet ski operators and all the drunk boat operators:grumble::skull

AND if it did happen to me GUESS WHAT?? It would NOT BE BECAUSE I was a DRUNK DRIVER it would be a terrible accident. And only an IDIOT would even suggest something like this happening to someone standing up against DRUNK DRIVERS.

 

[dribble]

This is what always scared the hell out me of about drinking and boating. I'm not saying I've never done it because I have. I'm not saying this is the case but say I've a had enough beers to barely put me over the limit and some dumb ass seadoo driver pulls in front of me while I'm hauling ass.....bam, I'm in jail and fucked even though it wasn't my fault.

You are absolutely right. I won't risk ten years because I had one too many beers. You know how it is on Folsom. The PWC's are always crossing in front of you without looking.

Sad deal though.

 

[riverroyal]

So when you send me PM's on this forum preaching to a stranger about a couple of my posts and ask me to call you at your office that is a personal opinion? Like I said in the PM stop trolling me and fuck off.

kinda a new twist.....

 

[NicPaus]

AND if it did happen to me GUESS WHAT?? It would NOT BE BECAUSE I was a DRUNK DRIVER it would be a terrible accident.

And most likely you would be sued for wrongful death although it was 100% the fault of the seadoo.

Just heard a similar one where the boat operator was not at fault but lost the million dollar wrongful death lawsuit as they day he did not show compassion for the ski operator while laid out dead on the beach waiting on coroner. Imagine if he had just 1 beer which is totally legal.

 

[AZMIDLYF]

Facts or no facts...bottom line here is the "Adults" dropped the ball on being responsible and a child lost their life as a result. :thumbsdown

 

[boatpi]

Just so others understand, even if the boat operator was OUI, he may NOT be the primary cause, but if he is determined to be OUI, he is a contributing cause. Details, but important ones if someone is OUI. BoatCop can insert himself more on this.

 

[PaPaG]

AND if it did happen to me GUESS WHAT?? It would NOT BE BECAUSE I was a DRUNK DRIVER it would be a terrible accident.

And most likely you would be sued for wrongful death although it was 100% the fault of the seadoo.

Just heard a similar one where the boat operator was not at fault but lost the million dollar wrongful death lawsuit as they day he did not show compassion for the ski operator while laid out dead on the beach waiting on coroner. Imagine if he had just 1 beer which is totally legal.

You are correct in regards to the suit but a huge percentage are lost. EITHER way I would be completely devastated if something like this ever happened to me or my family on either end. Luckily I would never be in this position because I do not drink and drive and I am extra careful and would never pass anybody without having enough room and ability to avoid a collision.

 

[BHC Vic]

I like the guy 😎

 

[rivermobster]

I do not represent my agency when I respond on my own time and explicitly state that I am offering my own opinion. Were I in agreement with you, I suspect you would celebrate my defection but regardless every person in this country has a right to have and express an opinion, and I shall continue to do so. I was a boating officer in Florida and worked on a boat in Alaska. A coworker was Coast Guard in multiple jurisdictions and we both agree that Lake Havasu is the scariest place we've worked on the water. if you don't like anecdotal evididence, that's fine- take a look instead at national statistics compiled by the Coast Guard. Year after year, Havasu is one of the most dangerous waterways in America.

Still waiting on your email...

:rolleyes

Oh and, how about you post those statistics.

 

[NicPaus]

You are correct in regards to the suit but a huge percentage are lost. EITHER way I would be completely devastated if something like this ever happened to me or my family on either end. Luckily I would never be in this position because I do not drink and drive and I am extra careful and would never pass anybody without having enough room and ability to avoid a collision.

I hear Ya. On the Strip we have usually about 50' between us. It only takes a second for a new supercharged ski to be right in front of you. Or one to take off from shore and b line across the river never looking. I only let a few people ride the one I owned as it is the equivalent of riding a Hayabusa down the 405 freeway. You really have to know what you are doing which most Adults I know do not. I know a few kids that are better but they are River Rats. Not out for 1 trip of the year.

 

[aka619er]

Aka619er, I'm sorry but claiming OUI/DUI does not cause accidents is one of the most absurd, irresponsible things I've ever read. Fact is, anybody above a .05 BAC is impaired and more likely to cause an accident and that is why hard drinking countries like Ireland and Australia have already lowered the DUI threshold to that level. The fact that you have not read any of the research does not mean that there is not a huge amount of research documenting the dangers of drinking and driving/boating. You can start with the literature cited here by the CDC if you are sincere about your skepticism and would like to educate yourself. http://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/alcohol-use.htm And of course there will still be accidents, but if the number of families mourning a dead child can be reduced 25% or more then only an amoral narcissist would argue that their right to get drunk outweighs the rights of every other man, woman, child on the water.

The fact of the matter is that someone crashed into someone else. The scapegoat is that the very first "cause" indicator is alcohol was a factor. This means that without alcohol it wouldn't have happened. This is the flaw in the data. There is no data that shows this individual would do anything differently sober. So like I said with or without alcohol people will continue to get into accidents. There are fatal accidents everyday with people who don't drink at all. This means there are bad drivers everywhere. These same bad drivers have a drink and go drive and it's suddenly the alcohols fault. There is no one size fits all like we are going for.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

this how I understand the law...and why everyone busts my balls for wanting to slow down sues boat...

first thing.. you must operate the vessel at a speed to the conditions to avoid the collision....period....
secondary

the person operating in front of you must drive in a predictable manner...
third..

you add drinking to the deal....

when you add drinking to the deal,.. it goes to first, the reason being is that you are not susposed to be on the water at all...

so... lets skip the drinking for a moment...

you have a collision with some one in front of you, you get sued for 1 million..
a good attorney, will argue that you are only 50% of fault... because the other operater was driving in an un predictable manner

now on the plaintiff side, their attorney will argue the variations... tooo fast for the crowded area, area known for congestion of slow water craft

so now it goes to trail and they award the plaintiff with a reduced amount because the driver was 30 percent at fault for unpredictable driving....

now add had been drinking... I don't care how much, a good attorney will rip you apart... sir do you drink all the time....no... very rare, only had 2 beers all summer...

oh so you are like me... one beer and I'm high as a kite...

or , sir, do you drink all the time.. yep,.. and I can drive a boat better than anyone because i'm experienced at driving speed boats...oh so you drink all the time? so you really don't know the difference when you are sober , or impared...

one thing you never want is for an officer to check the HBD box...(had been drinking) you might excape criminal charges... but never ever civil...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

my self, I never drink and drive my boat....I have been in the boat when others have,,,..I've even been in my boat with some one driving....THE" I've only had two beers i'm fine""

but guess what, new 2FF law... no one drives anything of mine that has been drinking ever again... i'm just as liable,,,

this is a very sad sad deal... and a GOD smack down to all the speeding crazy driving, reckless driving, drinking boaters..

this what turns hey-lams.. to wtfaigdn....

 

[Old Texan]

After 10 pages we're still unsure of the details. A guy was intoxicated. A young girl died. No way I'm defending OUI but suggesting some objectivity to what we're discussing in the grand scheme of things. Accidents are always going to happen and the statistics rise as more vessels take to the waterways. I've been around boats and the water for all my life and seen accidents happen from small canoes to commercial vessels and even ships. Small lakes and even farm ponds to the ocean. Alcohol had nothing to do with the high majority of accidents I've been close to. Over 99% over them.

A couple kids tipped a small flat bottom over in a stock pond on a farm and 1 drowned. A seasoned shrimp trawler Capt towing a disabled trawler into port, had his towing line get out of position to his side capsizing his 60' trawler in the blink of an eye and he drowned trapped in the wheelhouse. Lost a HS friend when her canoe capsized in a swift stream. She hit her head on a rock and drowned. Had a friend 2 summers ago get struck broad side by a bass boat speeding to weigh in....5 dead. A friend lost his son when he hit a pier while speeding home on his PWC in the rain. Had friends lose a cousin when an inexperienced first time boat owner hit the throttle and t-boned them, crushing the teenager. I have many more, big and small. NONE involved alcohol. Mainly inexperience or in the case of the shrimp trawler, poor rigging in rough waters.

The whole point is boats and the water are potentials for incidents out of human control for any number of factors. Alcohol can be at fault, but typically it's just the nature of boating as it is with cars and trucks on the roads. Bad shit can happen in the blink of an eye. We've had 2 small plane crashes in Houston this month when inexperienced pilots panicked or were incapable of making normal landings.

Be aware, be careful, and know how to operate anything you turn the key on is the best advice. Drunks cause plenty of issues, but most tragedies are something altogether different.

 

[PaPaG]

I hear Ya. On the Strip we have usually about 50' between us. It only takes a second for a new supercharged ski to be right in front of you. Or one to take off from shore and b line across the river never looking. I only let a few people ride the one I owned as it is the equivalent of riding a Hayabusa down the 405 freeway. You really have to know what you are doing which most Adults I know do not. I know a few kids that are better but they are River Rats. Not out for 1 trip of the year.

Don't get me wrong, I do not like river lice, they seem to cause so many issues and close calls and even worse the ones that are out for the 1 time trips really get out of control and have caused us many close calls, and having only 50' between boats or vessels is why we never go up into the congested areas if at all possible. Being typically the DD I tend to stay away from the crazy crowds because at the end of the day everyone got to relax and enjoy and I ended up tired from being ON POINT the entire time. I used to boat up at laughlin when harrahs first opened and it was busy then, the last time we saw the river up in that area I said NEVER during the weekend that is for sure.

 

[Ballyhoo]

Believe me when I say I don't approve of drinking and driving however I have been the victim of inexperienced jet skiers and have been t boned twice on the Parker strip.

In the article from Saturday it states the boat driver was intoxicated. Does that simply mean his BAC exceeded .08?
The way things are today I believe even if the driver was below .08 and there was a fatality he would be charged anyway. Am I correct?

Its always possible to charge you with DUI/BUI if your BAC is .08 or BELOW. At .08% BAC, the law presumes you are impaired.

 

[Ballyhoo]

For someone in your position, you don't get to have a personal opinion. You represent a federal agency on and off the clock!
Example, I work for a very large software company in a senior sales leadership position and while I agree and sometimes disagree with decisions the company makes, I don't get personal opinions on those decisions. That is a huge CLM, since I represent the company 24/7 until I leave the company.

That statement is not true as we live in country with a constitution and within that there is that pesky first amendment. On duty, there are policies to be followed and you would likely tow the company line. Off duty, you are free to exercise your free speech rights, just like anyone else. We can also vote just like anyone else. We wouldn't be able to do things off duty, wearing any of our issued stuff or uniforms and take stands on political or sensitive issues. I can see your situation in the private industry. If you did something or said something they could likely fire you immediately. For LEOs, as long as you are not out in public, on public forums, getting crazy while wearing uniforms or stating, "I work for River City PD" and this is the law or the way things are, you are fine.

 

[Joker]

I'll never understand why it's tough for people to wait until the boat is put away to start drinking. I take one beer for me in the cooler and rarely finish it because of how hot it gets. Yes that's drinking but I won't boat for another 4 hours after consuming it. My passengers can drink all they want and feel good knowing I'll get them home at day's end. You can't stop accidents but the chance of avoiding them is greater imho.

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

God bless this little girl and her family.

As to the DUI/BUI. As one of the non-drinkers here, I get it. I've walked in both set of shoes. Back in the day, I was "that guy." I had an epiphany and could have killed a handful of folks doing so. I was given a second chance. I quit completely. I have this obsessive personality, every thing I do, I do to the absolute reasonable limit. That included my drinking.

I couldn't even imagine boating or going out to dinner without drinking. As time went on, It became normal and now, don't miss it at all. Hell, I just got addicted to something else.

The loss of a child. . . Just try put yourself in the shoes of this family, yet here we are arguing about being able to drink and boat. Petty.

 

[milkmoney]

I'll never understand why it's tough for people to wait until the boat is put away to start drinking. I take one beer for me in the cooler and rarely finish it because of how hot it gets. Yes that's drinking but I won't boat for another 4 hours after consuming it. My passengers can drink all they want and feel good knowing I'll get them home at day's end. You can't stop accidents but the chance of avoiding them is greater imho.

How do u have passengers , u never invite me. Lol [emoji202]

 

[milkmoney]

There are some real stupid comments in this thread.

Godspeed little girl and thoughts to her family. [emoji107]

 

[allblowdup]

my thoughts on this. Drinking and boat in no way is something that should be going on but it does happen. When an accident happens and one person has been drinking it is usually an all out war on that [person regardless of how much they drank or what actually caused the accident. So much emphasis has been put on the drinking a driving aspect and has alot to do with things like MADD that they are underplaying or not paying attention to many other things that cause many accidents. I have been driving for 35 yrs and with regards to vehicles and boats I have never seen so many incompetent drivers around. Many of these people are extremely dangerous but because they are not speeding or drinking and driving they are ignored. Again drinking and driving is not acceptable but neither is not knowing how to properly operate a motorized vessel. Unfortunately one of those gets 90 percent of the attention.

 

[Joker]

How do u have passengers , u never invite me. Lol [emoji202]

[emoji1], ok my 1 passenger.