Dive boat fire

[Taboma]

It is very likely the fire started from battery charging failure... underwater light/camera/sea scooter/laptop/ect. Most likely in the galley/salon where it had time to grow rapidly and unnoticed with tons of things to quickly burn in there. Overhead hatch will lead to back of galley/salon, stairs lead to front of galley/salon. Ventelation was running, which was most likley pumping fumes and black smoke into bunk are. It is just all bad. If u cant get out the stairwell due to fire, to locate and fight to get out the overhead in the dark is almost impossible given the amount of people down there, which also leads into the fire.

Well that's about a useless friggin escape hatch, fire or sinking scenario. Those bunks shouldn't be allowed there, only a ladder leading straight up through the hatch.
I can't imagine 30 or so frantic passengers trying to escape using that route, instant log jam even in the best conditions.

 

[Ballyhoo]

Fishing, yes. I can't see divers getting ready to dive before 2 hours before the sun start coming up.

Very typical as they are cooking for almost 40 people.

 

[HCP3]

It is very likely the fire started from battery charging failure... underwater light/camera/sea scooter/laptop/ect. Most likely in the galley/salon where it had time to grow rapidly and unnoticed with tons of things to quickly burn in there. Overhead hatch will lead to back of galley/salon, stairs lead to front of galley/salon. Ventelation was running, which was most likley pumping fumes and black smoke into bunk are. It is just all bad. If u cant get out the stairwell due to fire, to locate and fight to get out the overhead in the dark is almost impossible given the amount of people down there, which also leads into the fire.

Wow. That is downright scary to visualize. Especially with the picture of the escape hatch. It truly is just a hatch...

 

[stephenkatsea]

Not to be a prick, but I think some wording in that title is just wrong to use.

But I'm not a journalist, I'm sure they went to school and all.

A person from the NTSB reported they questioned the crew at length for a number of hours. Said all were very cooperative. Drug and alcohol testing of the crew is standard after an accident. Although, random unannounced drug and alcohol screening is also done. Not many occupations are subject to that. Some, but not many. How about brain surgeons or public school teachers? I believe they would be very likely candidates for random screening.

 

[Racer56]

My educated guess is that there was a grease fire in the galley. It's the only type of fire that could spread so quickly unnoticed. I think the fire started on the main deck above the sleeping quarters, blocking any possibility of escaping. Very sad and freak set of circumstances. Goodspeed to all involved.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Keep in mind prior to construction drawings are submitted to the USCG for approval, USCG is on site during construction, upon completion there is another thorough inspection and sea trial, then an annual USCG inspection at a minimum. The location and method of emergency escape was approved at every one of those events. But, that doesn't matter. Bottom line, it didn't work. Even had they made it up and out of that hatch they likely would have been entering a fully engulfed fire in the galley.

 

[4Waters]

Keep in mind prior to construction drawings are submitted to the USCG for approval, USCG is on site during construction, upon completion there is another thorough inspection and sea trial, then an annual USCG inspection at a minimum. The location and method of emergency escape was approved at every one of those events. But, that doesn't matter. Bottom line, it didn't work. Even had they made it up and out of that hatch they likely would have been entering a fully engulfed fire in the galley.

^^^^^^this

 

[RitcheyRch]

I wonder if the USCG makes them do emergency escape drills like they do on commercial airplanes. Boeing has to demonstrate to the FAA that all the occupants on an airplane can escape safely in a certain time frame. These tests are done before the airplane is delivered.

Keep in mind prior to construction drawings are submitted to the USCG for approval, USCG is on site during construction, upon completion there is another thorough inspection and sea trial, then an annual USCG inspection at a minimum. The location and method of emergency escape was approved at every one of those events. But, that doesn't matter. Bottom line, it didn't work. Even had they made it up and out of that hatch they likely would have been entering a fully engulfed fire in the galley.

 

[Old Texan]

Well that's about a useless friggin escape hatch, fire or sinking scenario. Those bunks shouldn't be allowed there, only a ladder leading straight up through the hatch.
I can't imagine 30 or so frantic passengers trying to escape using that route, instant log jam even in the best conditions.

My opinion also. Escape hatch should lead directly to open deck, preferably away from areas that would have fire hazard.

Not to be out of line at this point or callous, but that cabin layout was a disaster waiting to happen. So sad this happened and those poor souls getting trapped is horrible.

Hopefully new directives are established to prevent it from ever happening again.

 

[stephenkatsea]

This arrangement and method of emergency egress is by no means unique to the Conception. There are numerous CG Certified vessels all over the country with similar arrangements. Don't know what kind of liability will be placed on the owner of the Conception given the prior guidance and approval from the CG on this emergency hatch. There doesn't appear to be negligence on behalf of the owner on this portion of the tragedy. Starting to hear more about the charging of the passenger's Lithium Ion batteries at outlets in the galley. Believe that is not illegal. But, when those batteries should happen to blow it is rapid, violent and creates extreme heat. These are not simple cell phone batteries. In this case they could have been large batteries for the passenger's underwater lights and cameras. Certainly a potential cause of the violent fire.

 

[stephenkatsea]

I wonder if the USCG makes them do emergency escape drills like they do on commercial airplanes. Boeing has to demonstrate to the FAA that all the occupants on an airplane can escape safely in a certain time frame. These tests are done before the airplane is delivered.

Typically Fire, MOB and abandon ship drills are conducted at the annual CG inspection with the crew of the vessel. Demonstration of the emergency escape hatch would be at the discretion of the on scene CG inspector.

 

[monkeyswrench]

A person from the NTSB reported they questioned the crew at length for a number of hours. Said all were very cooperative. Drug and alcohol testing of the crew is standard after an accident. Although, random unannounced drug and alcohol screening is also done. Not many occupations are subject to that. Some, but not many. How about brain surgeons or public school teachers? I believe they would be very likely candidates for random screening.

Honestly I just thought the word "grill" was a piss poor choice.

As for drug and alcohol testing, I believe it should be a requirement for any job that makes you responsible for the well being of others. Teachers not getting random testing is up there...my wife's a teacher, and she's for it. I've done heavy construction and been around heavy equipment.. damn right I want sober operators. You don't want to make the call, or get the call. Plain and simple.

 

[stephenkatsea]

When I was in junior high and high school there always seemed to be a particular teacher or two who often smelled of alcohol. Now days add the legal use of pot in many states. And in states like CA the teacher's labor unions will never permit random testing of those teachers.

 

[RiverDave]

It is very likely the fire started from battery charging failure... underwater light/camera/sea scooter/laptop/ect. Most likely in the galley/salon where it had time to grow rapidly and unnoticed with tons of things to quickly burn in there. Overhead hatch will lead to back of galley/salon, stairs lead to front of galley/salon. Ventelation was running, which was most likley pumping fumes and black smoke into bunk are. It is just all bad. If u cant get out the stairwell due to fire, to locate and fight to get out the overhead in the dark is almost impossible given the amount of people down there, which also leads into the fire.

That’s crazy. One exit out the front, and then one escape hatch that takes you to the same spot?

I figured escape hatch meant straight to deck.

 

[stephenkatsea]

That’s crazy. One exit out the front, and then one escape hatch that takes you to the same spot?

I figured escape hatch meant straight to deck.

Going to be interesting to see if the owner will have liability exposure over this issue, since it was all preapproved and inspected by the CG. And I've heard it said you can't sue the government. So then what? You just know the sleaze bag F'in attorneys are running to get in line for thi$.

 

[Tooms22]

Going to be interesting to see if the owner will have liability exposure over this issue, since it was all preapproved and inspected by the CG. And I've heard it said you can't sue the government. So then what?

The insurance companies will likely turn over the entire policy limit whether there is much liability or not. The financial damages are massive, from a human loss standpoint, and the policy is likely a drop in the bucket to get the insurance company's name out of the spotlight immediately.

So you have to think there is boat insurance, general business liability insurance, and possibly an umbrella policy. $10 million? $15 million maybe?

Either way, there is not even 1/25th enough money to pay families for the loss of life here. Obviously, there is never enough money for loss of life but I am referring to what a jury would decide the final judgment should be.

 

[H20 Toie]

I would guess they have 10mil in liability which would be considered enough in most cases. No one would have thought that so many people would be lost in a single accident. they had lots of safety measures on that boat and was considered safe until now
This tragedy is going to change the way dive operations work all over the country if not the world.

 

[cofooter]

I wonder if the USCG makes them do emergency escape drills like they do on commercial airplanes. Boeing has to demonstrate to the FAA that all the occupants on an airplane can escape safely in a certain time frame. These tests are done before the airplane is delivered.

I'd be very skeptical if any of the escape models they run on an airplane are even close to reality. I would guess there is zero chance of everything going as planned in an emergency situation on an aircraft. I've always thought if anything went wrong requiring an emergency evacuation, I'd be pretty much fucked. Just like the boat, what you plan and what reality is is two entirely different things.

 

[stephenkatsea]

The insurance companies will likely turn over the entire policy limit whether there is much liability or not. The financial damages are massive, from a human loss standpoint, and the policy is likely a drop in the bucket to get the insurance company's name out of the spotlight immediately.

So you have to think there is boat insurance, general business liability insurance, and possibly an umbrella policy. $10 million? $15 million maybe?

Either way, there is not even 1/25th enough money to pay families for the loss of life here. Obviously, there is never enough money for loss of life but I am referring to what a jury would decide the final judgment should be.

So in the end the families of the victims have suffered terrible loses. The insurance companies will suffer huge monetary loses, which will be passed on to the consumer. Many vessel owners will be required to make expensive escape modifications. And once again, mostly only the friggin' attorneys will realize a gain from this tragedy. Although, boatyards will likely receive ample work if there are required modifications put in place. This will effect the entire recreational diving and fishing industry. Which are not easy ways to make a buck to begin with. But, it is obvious changes should be made.

 

[=River Perfection=]

That’s crazy. One exit out the front, and then one escape hatch that takes you to the same spot?

I figured escape hatch meant straight to deck.

No, although the hatch does open close to the exit of the salon area, it is still inside of it. Its metal too. it could have been very hot. I think the smoke/fumes got so bad so quick down in the bunks ,it quickly over took everyone.

 

[500bbc]

My opinion also. Escape hatch should lead directly to open deck, preferably away from areas that would have fire hazard.

Not to be out of line at this point or callous, but that cabin layout was a disaster waiting to happen. So sad this happened and those poor souls getting trapped is horrible.

Hopefully new directives are established to prevent it from ever happening again.

That cabin layout has been standard since at least WWII, this has not happened before.

 

[=River Perfection=]

It is very standard, and that was a big boat. Been on a lot smaller.

 

[was thatguy]

I'd be very skeptical if any of the escape models they run on an airplane are even close to reality. I would guess there is zero chance of everything going as planned in an emergency situation on an aircraft. I've always thought if anything went wrong requiring an emergency evacuation, I'd be pretty much fucked. Just like the boat, what you plan and what reality is is two entirely different things.

They can work as demonstrated on the Hudson River. Everyone got out while floating. I’d say that’s a successful plan.
Or they don’t work as demonstrated by the airliner (don’t remember where) that caught fire on the taxiway and people died inside.

 

[cofooter]

They can work as demonstrated on the Hudson River. Everyone got out while floating. I’d say that’s a successful plan.
Or they don’t work as demonstrated by the airliner (don’t remember where) that caught fire on the taxiway and people died inside.

I think the plane that landed on the water had a ton of time, like an hour...... if it was a fire it would have been a completely different story.

 

[4Waters]

Testing and reality are 2 different things. In testing, there is no emergency everyone knows what to do and where to go and in what order, in a real emergency all it takes is 1 or 2 people to make or break an evacuation.

 

[cofooter]

Testing and reality are 2 different things. In testing, there is no emergency everyone knows what to do and where to go and what order, in a real emergency all it takes is 1 or 2 people to make or break an evacuation.

Just observe 300 people de-plane in a non-emergency situation, what a cluster. Row 32 takes 30m. People are clueless and all it takes is one.

 

[Tooms22]

The company/insurance are already attempting to limit liability.

https://ktla.com/2019/09/05/owners-...-cruz-island-file-lawsuit-to-limit-liability/

 

[JB in so cal]

If you all haven't noticed @stephenkatsea knows his shit. Trust me on this...

 

[cofooter]

Heartbreaking all around to the poor souls that lost their lives and those that have to live with it.

 

[4Waters]

@TPC haven't heard from you, everything ok in your camp?

 

[bluebleeder]

So in the end the families of the victims have suffered terrible loses. The insurance companies will suffer huge monetary loses, which will be passed on to the consumer. Many vessel owners will be required to make expensive escape modifications. And once again, mostly only the friggin' attorneys will realize a gain from this tragedy. Although, boatyards will likely receive ample work if there are required modifications put in place. This will effect the entire recreational diving and fishing industry. Which are not easy ways to make a buck to begin with. But, it is obvious changes should be made.

Could not agree more. Having many nights spent in bunk rooms, I have been picturing the places I laid my head on sporboats over and over. I have slept in much less desirable spots. The impact on the sportfishing and dive boat fleet will be dramatic and swift. There is very little profit to be made on these boats now add retrofitting to their yearly offseason to do list. I foresee many boats for sale. Unfortunately it takes situations like this to drive change.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[rrrr]

I'd be very skeptical if any of the escape models they run on an airplane are even close to reality. I would guess there is zero chance of everything going as planned in an emergency situation on an aircraft. I've always thought if anything went wrong requiring an emergency evacuation, I'd be pretty much fucked. Just like the boat, what you plan and what reality is is two entirely different things.

One thing that threatens your life in an emergency evacuation are the fucking idiots that stop to retrieve their crap from the overhead bins while fuel fed fires grow outside the fuselage.

If I'm ever in that situation, I plan on punching anyone doing so in the face to focus their attention on the task at hand.

 

[4Waters]

The one thing that threatens your life in an emergency evacuation are the fucking idiots that stop to retrieve their crap from the overhead bins while fuel fed fires grow outside the fuselage.

If I'm ever in that situation, I plan on punching anyone doing so in the face to focus their attention on the task at hand.

That is what I am talking about in testing, that shit doesn't happen.

 

[Singleton]

The company/insurance are already attempting to limit liability.

https://ktla.com/2019/09/05/owners-...-cruz-island-file-lawsuit-to-limit-liability/

Timing of that sucks for those dealing with a loss, but had to be done.

 

[boatpi]

https://www.latimes.com/california/...nia-boat-fire-victims-crew-members-passengers

 

[Singleton]

https://www.latimes.com/california/...nia-boat-fire-victims-crew-members-passengers

Lots of statements in that article that question the accuracy of the article.

 

[rrrr]

Lots of statements in that article that question the accuracy of the article.

Typical fake news click bait bullshit. They take rumors and elevate them to what appear to be facts.

 

[lbhsbz]

We, nor the media, know a single fucking thing right now.

It’s nothing but speculation.

There are 2 or 3 people involved in this thread that know what they’re talking about, but none of them were there and none of them know what happened. The people that were there don’t fully know what happened.

Let’s just all stop with this bullshit.

I think of myself as smarter than most people...able to solve situations like this, and I find myself left with 10+ possibilities.


Let the investigators do their jobs.

 

[Travmon]

I'd be very skeptical if any of the escape models they run on an airplane are even close to reality. I would guess there is zero chance of everything going as planned in an emergency situation on an aircraft. I've always thought if anything went wrong requiring an emergency evacuation, I'd be pretty much fucked. Just like the boat, what you plan and what reality is is two entirely different things.

Here is what I know about some testing scenario's , I sometimes work on and helped develop certain aspects of a fleet of trailers that look like large cargo trailers from the outside but when you step inside they are full copy's of different private jet models. What they are is disaster simulators so to speak. They fill with smoke and noise and move to off center axis for simulation purposes. It is a training tool for crew and pilots ( how to disembark a plane on fire while a bit disoriented.
When me and a buddy took our drag boat hobby to a faster level it then required us to be in a capsule , so to be able to get licensed in a capsule you have to go to cali. and they put you in a capsule upside down repeatedly in a pool of water to test your ability to free yourself.

 

[WhatExit?]

 

[TPC]

That’s crazy. One exit out the front, and then one escape hatch that takes you to the same spot?

I figured escape hatch meant straight to deck.

The news showed a small coast guard girl investigator try and crawl outta the sister ships front hatch and it wasn't easy nor quick. Awkward and hard to get thru.
Same Investigator said the fire started in the kitchen and got out of control and spread fast. Crew tried to evacuate the lower cabin before tackling the fire she went on to say.
Dunno if the cook survived the fire to give more details.
FBI, CG and VCSO are investigating.

 

[TPC]

That is what I am talking about in testing, that shit doesn't happen.

Yeah they finally contacted everyone and are OK.

 

[4Waters]

Yeah they finally contacted everyone and are OK.

That's great

 

[coolchange]

We, nor the media, know a single fucking thing right now.

It’s nothing but speculation.

There are 2 or 3 people involved in this thread that know what they’re talking about, but none of them were there and none of them know what happened. The people that were there don’t fully know what happened.

Let’s just all stop with this bullshit.

I think of myself as smarter than most people...able to solve situations like this, and I find myself left with 10+ possibilities.


Let the investigators do their jobs.

Uh, ok.
Is it okay if I talk to my dive buddies on the phone about what happened?
Can I talk to my brothers at dinner tonight about what happened?
I guess I surely shouldn't talk to anybody at work about it.
I wouldn't want my little conversations to hamper any agencies investigations.

 

[stephenkatsea]

It was almost inconceivable this morning when the USCG COTP LA/LB said she wasn't versed on Roving Patrolmen on Passenger Carrying Vessels. I can't imagine one of her staff hadn't briefed her on that topic. I believe the CFRs state that when the passenger berthing area is occupied on a Passenger Carrying Vessel there shall be a roving patrolman. I believe at this time the status of a roving patrolman on the Conception remains unknown and/or unannounced. A roving patrolman is a critical requirement for the safety of the passengers and the rest of the crew.

 

[stephenkatsea]

If you all haven't noticed @stephenkatsea knows his shit. Trust me on this...

Now if you would just convince my wife of that. Lol

 

[500bbc]

Pray that this is true...

Victims of California dive boat fire appear to have died from smoke inhalation, authorities say

Stefanie Dazio
SANTA BARBARA, Calif.
The Associated Press
Published 3 hours agoUpdated September 6, 2019
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Dozens of people trapped on a scuba diving boat that caught fire off the Southern California coast appear to have died from smoke inhalation, not burns, authorities said Friday.

“The indicators are from the preliminary examination of the bodies that the victims died prior to being burned,” Santa Barbara County Sheriff Bill Brown said. “The burn damage to the victims was post-mortem.”

 

[rrrr]

When me and a buddy took our drag boat hobby to a faster level it then required us to be in a capsule , so to be able to get licensed in a capsule you have to go to cali. and they put you in a capsule upside down repeatedly in a pool of water to test your ability to free yourself.

I may not have this exactly correct, but offshore oil platform helicopter operations in the North Sea have very strict safety laws they must follow. Scrutiny of the fleet operations by government and EU inspectors was ratcheted up significantly after a couple of Eurocopter LC225 main rotor separation crashes in the last ten years that killed over 30 workers and pilots.

North Sea offshore workers have to take safety courses that include sessions in the dunk tank. The dunk rigs are usually aluminum shell mockups similar to the hulls of large helicopters used in transport, including Airbus H225, H175 and H145s, Sikorsky S-61 and S-92s, Bell 407s, and some other models.

On all offshore shuttle flights, the workers are required to wear Gumby immersion suits with rebreather apparatus during the flights, so the trainees are wearing them when they are strapped into the seats of the dunk rigs. The rig is dumped into the water, and can be inverted. The entire group of trainees must unbuckle themselves, move to emergency egress exits, open them, and swim to the surface.

I believe Gulf of Mexico flight ops are similar, but one thing that separates the two is water temperature. In the winter, North Sea water temps are as low as 35°F. In the Gulf, I think the coldest water is above 60°F. Survival time without immersion suits is just minutes in the North Sea.

Watch the video and imagine doing the real thing in 15' seas and 40°F water temperatures.

 

[dryhoze1]

25 year commercial helicopter pilot.
I’ve done the dunk tank and its very doable obviously.
Getting out of that boat at 3:30 am in the dark..
Not happening

 

[rrrr]

25 year commercial helicopter pilot.
I’ve done the dunk tank and its very doable obviously.
Getting out of that boat at 3:30 am in the dark..
Not happening

Did I describe the drill properly? I have flown a 206L to a crew boat exactly once, and that was 30 years ago. I quickly concluded renting a turbine helicopter to build time, become insurable, and an attractive hire was going to cost more money than I had made in my entire life up to that point.

I quit after 20 hours of dual and rented 172s after that.