Dive boat fire

[Boozer]

Let the investigators do their jobs. Suppositions and assumptions are of no value.

If neither had value on this forum this forum wouldn’t exist. We make a lot of assumptions here, it makes for great conversation.


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[boatpi]

I know these old boats, in the end more regulations are needed. The diving and charter industry has had the same rules from USCG for decades. You do not need to be a brain surgeon on this, a number of issues caused this fire. Leaking hydro lines, fuel leaks, overheating, this is not be too difficult to determine.

My point is this incident could be prevented, and in the end better regulations will be seen to prevent such a tragedy. This is the part that sucks, prevention by decent safety rules.

 

[Travmon]

This is not back seat quarterbacking, BUT, barring that this was not an explosion. How does this even happen in modern times. I have been around a lot of stuff in my lifetime that is constantly trying to kill you , Drag boats , drag cars ,cranes, chemicals, welding shop that I own, paint shop that I own and through our efforts and those from the govt. we are constantly making things safer.
As the lawyers , coast guard regulators , fire investigators sift through the wreckage and find cause there will also be the WHAT CAN WE DO TO BE SAFER ? I find it incredible that certain requirements must not be requirements ? Sprinklers , smoke detectors , emergency exits ,chemical fire systems , breathing oxygen and many other items to keep death to a minimum. Through the years my friends and I have had to spend so much money on this years new safety item or idea ( Hans device , halon systems , update belts , re-cert cages , personal physicals and all this so we don't kill OURSELVES let alone a group of people we are profiting off of. Sorry for the rant but this just seems like one of those accidents that should have been avoidable , a death or 2 caused by panic is one thing but to lose 85% of onboard occupants that were less then 10 feet from fresh air or water seems preventable ?
Up here in the Seattle area we have those duck boat rides and a few years ago we had one on a major bridge break a axle knuckle and sail across the center-line and took out a cruise bus with several fatalities and injuries , When the investigation got going it was quite evident that the duck boat company had terrible mechanical practices and failed to repair known issues . But at least there were rules in place designed to prevent such tragedies had the company followed procedure. I know every time I open my business's and let the public and our employees in I had better be read for all the WHAT IF's ? Like all major instances I am sure there will be some changes made to try to prevent this it just sucks that those things were not already in place... P.S. Im still pissed we let 4 jackoffs with box knifes cripple this country on 9-11..I have always been very Pro-active person so it is difficult to live in a Re-active environment...R.I.P. to those that perished , may some good come from the tragedy..

 

[Travmon]

Sorry I had that in paragraph form not sure which button screwed me !

 

[rrrr]

But at least there were rules in place designed to prevent such tragedies had the company followed procedure.

How do you (and Boat PI) know that rules weren't followed in this instance and negligence caused this?

Based on what was left of the boat, the fact it sank, and that when it's raised it'll be in pieces, I'm not optimistic the cause of the fire will be determined.

 

[ChumpChange]

How do you (and Boat PI) know that rules weren't followed in this instance and negligence caused this?

Based on what was left of the boat, the fact it sank, and that when it's raised it'll be in pieces, I'm not optimistic the cause of the fire will be determined.

Five crew members in different rooms will lead to some truths.

 

[musicFunsun]

So sad. Prayers sent

 

[Travmon]

How do you (and Boat PI) know that rules weren't followed in this instance and negligence caused this?

Based on what was left of the boat, the fact it sank, and that when it's raised it'll be in pieces, I'm not optimistic the cause of the fire will be determined.

They could very well be in compliance , That does not exclude owners from fault . Lets play court room here .You be the CEO .I'll be the victims lawyer.

• ME : Was your vessel approved for service by any and all governing bodies that would require involvement for you to run a safe business involving passengers ?
• YOU : Absolutely ,and I might add we have a stellar safety record over these vast many years.
• ME : Can I ask if you ever did any testing outside of mandated policy to see the results of waking 30 people out of their sleep in a smoke filled cabin to see the results of all getting out safely before succumbing to fume or flame ?
• YOU : We go over evacuation and safety before we leave the dock.
• ME :I understand a vessel like this is quite specialized and unless you had spent considerable time on board you may have a hard time negotiating to exits in an emergency situation. So do you have a video of the test evacuation ?
• YOU : No video exists
• ME : Start writing checks sir !

It is way to much of a litigious world to not have done everything possible to prevent such tragedies , Now ..not knowing cause we can only speculate as to the what if's. As sure as the sun will rise the owner of this business should he weather the storm that is coming his way will definitely make some changes that better the chances of survival.. THAT IS THE RE-ACTIVE AMERICA we have today..

 

[monkeyswrench]

As of a radio news report at 11:30, 25 bodies had been recovered. 5 still unaccounted for. The hull capsized, coming to rest inverted on the sea floor.(KFI report) I believe this is hindering both salvage, and recovery.

No doubt there are rules and regulations in place already to help prevent loss of life. Weather or not they were followed will be what's next. Somewhere after will be the cause.

We, as humans, are not masters of our domain. As the Havasu people saw this weekend, and people in the Bahamas saw as well. Things can change in the blink of an eye, and sometimes we're just along for the ride.

 

[4Waters]

@TPC and @Singleton is everyone accounted for in your camps, been on my mind all night.

 

[Singleton]

Yuck. This post just hit home. My wife’s ex-husband borrowed some of our equipment and went diving this weekend.

Sure as hell hope we don’t need to call my step-sons with this news. Wife already had to call her ex’s GF to find out what boat he was on and she does not know! Fuck me, going to be a long day.

Wife’s ex and kids biological father accounted for.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

In situations like this I only believe about 10% of what the news says, and even that is taken with a large grain of salt.

In the end maybe the operator will be totally at fault, but going on and on about how you know what happened based on what the news is feeding you often runs to false conclusions.

I can think of at least a half-a-dozen reasons a fire can become uncontained on a boat. Isn't that why the Navy spends so much timing training sales in fire fighting?

God speed the victims, and condolences to the families.

 

[Singleton]

@TPC and @Singleton is everyone accounted for in your camps, been on my mind all night.

Yes for my step-sons. However sounds like some friends of friends were on the boat

 

[Old Texan]

We need to let the investigation be done before making assumptions. BUT, the big question I have that can be answered by the crew, is: Was their a secondary escape hatch/door? If not, why the hell not? If so, what kept it from being used?

If the main entry is blocked by fire, there "must" be a second way out.....There should be no need for a regulation or law to have enough exits to save lives. That's just common sense.

I never stay in a hotel or other building without knowing how to get the hell out and where the backup exits are located. A boat carrying overnight passengers is no different

 

[boatpi]

Lets be clear, I never stated the rules were not followed by the operator.

Question is, are the current USCG rules enough, should they be updated to a point where this could have been avoided. Fires occur, often not preventable, what safety rules and devices like escape hatches, alarms, auto extinguishers are in place can prevent injury or death. This investigation I believe will result in better safety rules/regulations on charter vessels. Wait and see, we can always do better, this should not have happened.

 

[buck35]

I think darkness, smoke and chaos was a huge issue here. Passengers were stacked like cordwood down there. Very sad deal.

 

[K-DOG]

The latest reports are saying that the fire in the galley was so bad it blocked access to the passengers down in the bunks. The crew attempted to get to them but couldn't. I don't think the locked door report is accurate.

 

[spectras only]

The article here of capsizing the Leviathan II in Tofino, killing six passengers. It was re-fitted with an extra superstructure on top making it top heavy.So, no, coast guard should not have allowed that vessel to operate, carrying 27 passengers. Just my worthless opinion. I've been on a modern 65' alu construction vessel in Tofino that looked safe, would have never boarded on the LEVIATHAN ii
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Leviathan_II

 

[TPC]

Just as I thought, news just said crew escaped and no secondary hatch available, as this is an old boat. One way in and out unlike newer boats. They had no way out, just tragic. Cause aside, I fault government for not having better requirements for safety. Things will change after this.

Why on cruise ships they have fire and evacuation drills with designated crew member

@TPC and @Singleton is everyone accounted for in your camps, been on my mind all night.

No returned texts, their Facebook page is silent too. We're hoping for the best.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Those who have been on a USCG Certified Passenger Carrying Vessel are familiar with the required Safety Briefing given by the Capt or a crew member as soon as you depart the dock. Typically PFDs, Life Rafts etc are discussed. Perhaps mention and 'demonstration' of the emergency escape exit from the bunk area could have saved many lives. As of now, I do not believe that demonstration is a USCG requirement. That overhead emergency exit would have been nearly impossible to locate in that extreme smoke and fire filled environment, unless you knew exactly where it was. The Conception was a very well run operation. The owners took very good care of the vessel. May the victims RIP. The Capt and crew are in my thoughts and prayers.

There was prior mention of a video of negotiating the Emergency Exits. Display of a video like that would be a valuable addition to the required pre departure Safety Briefing, assuming the passengers were giving it the attention it deserves.

 

[Old Texan]

Those who have been on a USCG Certified Passenger Carrying Vessel are familiar with the required Safety Briefing given by the Capt or a crew member as soon as you depart the dock. Typically PFDs, Life Rafts etc are discussed. Perhaps mention and 'demonstration' of the emergency escape exit from the bunk area could have saved many lives. As of now, I do not believe that demonstration is a USCG requirement. That overhead emergency exit would have been nearly impossible to locate in that extreme smoke and fire filled environment, unless you knew exactly where it was. The Conception was a very well run operation. The owners took very good care of the vessel. May the victims RIP. The Capt and crew are in my thoughts and prayers.

That's a good point many likely forget, the heavy smoke. The quarters likely filled immediately before many could even fully awaken to the disaster.

I'd be curious to know if there were any portholes for fresh air ventilation or if the cabin was just air conditioned and closed off. Either way the smoke had to be a major issue. Terrible way to go.

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

I wonder if any of the surviving passengers were sleeping on deck? I know if I was on that boat I would not have been able to sleep down there and would have grabbed my pillow and camped out topsides.

 

[Waterjunky]

I have dove off that exact boat multiple times as had friends and family off that exact boat in July. I did not go due to having pneumonia. The idea that the "doors were locked" was just stupid! there were physically no doors to lock between the bunkroom and the galley. The only doors were some interior style slatted doors between the galley and the back deck. Trust me, if there was an emergency, those would have been just a speedbump as people crashed right through them. Additionally they were hardly ever closed, the restrooms were on the outside of them. Yes there was an emergency hatch from the bunkroom into the back half of the dining area of the galley. I am not claiming to know what happened here, I am also saying people should not arm chair quarterback this so much. We have people drastically overshooting what little is known. The media is just shooting off their mouths about anything they can to sound relevant. I know this is RPD and that is what is done but in extreme cases like this we should try to dial it back a little. I only knew a few on this trip (crew) but there was a real concern that was not the case. Someone known was on a Truth Aquatics sister boat.
A few other details that directly contradict what people are spouting off about here: The boat was fiberglass not wood. All the crew but one are bunked on the bridge above the galley. Five of the six crew survived, if you think about it, that math works...... There is a safety briefing given at the beginning of every trip talking about where emergency exits and such are. And just to be clear, no doors were locking people in!

 

[Waterjunky]

I wonder if any of the surviving passengers were sleeping on deck? I know if I was on that boat I would not have been able to sleep down there and would have grabbed my pillow and camped out topsides.

Given the layout of the boat, not so much.........
I do not think the crew would have allowed anyone to overnight on deck.

 

[Waterjunky]

I am positive no one was locked into any where on the boat. That was the ridiculous response from the CG radio operator. The exits from the bunk area of the Conception go into the galley. There would have been an additional escape hatch. No doors were locked.

Thank you for trying to inject some logic and rational thought into the thread.....

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The latest reports are saying that the fire in the galley was so bad it blocked access to the passengers down in the bunks. The crew attempted to get to them but couldn't. I don't think the locked door report is accurate.

That is what I heard as well, and the report i heard this morning said there were 2 exits, both were blocked.

Blocked and Locked could get confused on a distress call, or on the phone with some journalist who knows nothing about anything.. and it gets repeated a million times on TV. The news reporting is ALWAYS inaccurate, especially right after an incident. Look how many times they have gotten details wrong that are actually provable that we can confirm were inaccurate.

 

[TPC]

That is what I heard as well, and the report i heard this morning said there were 2 exits, both were blocked.

Blocked and Locked could get confused on a distress call. The news reporting is ALWAYS inaccurate, especially right after an incident. Look how many times they have gotten details wrong that are actually provable that we can confirm were inaccurate.

KTLA Ch 5 is the only news outlet playing the entire MayDay call. Entirely different, longer and way more understandable than what the other medias are playing.
It's what's setting the locked hatch and no escape hatch talk in gear. The CG dispatcher was focused and on point and on his game.

Our friends and RDP members just contacted us. They are OK and use the sister dive boat.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

KTLA Ch 5 is the only news outlet playing the entire MayDay call. Entirely different, longer and way more understandable than what the other medias are playing.
It's what's setting the locked hatch and no escape hatch talk in gear. The CG dispatcher was focused and on point and on his game.

Our friends and RDP members just contacted us. They are OK and use the sister dive boat.

Agreed.. I edited my post, the blocked and locked jumble was probably made by reporters.

 

[Wicky]

6 degrees of seperation. My best friend lost his cousin, Charlie.rip

 

[500bbc]

Those who have been on a USCG Certified Passenger Carrying Vessel are familiar with the required Safety Briefing given by the Capt or a crew member as soon as you depart the dock. Typically PFDs, Life Rafts etc are discussed. Perhaps mention and 'demonstration' of the emergency escape exit from the bunk area could have saved many lives. As of now, I do not believe that demonstration is a USCG requirement. That overhead emergency exit would have been nearly impossible to locate in that extreme smoke and fire filled environment, unless you knew exactly where it was. The Conception was a very well run operation. The owners took very good care of the vessel. May the victims RIP. The Capt and crew are in my thoughts and prayers.

Stairs and escape hatch from the bunkroom typically go into the galley on every sport boat I've fished on.

 

[Taboma]

Those who have been on a USCG Certified Passenger Carrying Vessel are familiar with the required Safety Briefing given by the Capt or a crew member as soon as you depart the dock. Typically PFDs, Life Rafts etc are discussed. Perhaps mention and 'demonstration' of the emergency escape exit from the bunk area could have saved many lives. As of now, I do not believe that demonstration is a USCG requirement. That overhead emergency exit would have been nearly impossible to locate in that extreme smoke and fire filled environment, unless you knew exactly where it was. The Conception was a very well run operation. The owners took very good care of the vessel. May the victims RIP. The Capt and crew are in my thoughts and prayers.

Is there not any requirement for a Passenger Carrying Vessel to have a crewman to be standing watch when hanging on the hook ?

 

[gqchris]

I think darkness, smoke and chaos was a huge issue here. Passengers were stacked like cordwood down there. Very sad deal.

I find it crazy that 30 people fit down there on such a small boat. I wouldnt catch a wink of sleep stacked up like that. Im the type of person that cant sleep on a plane either, no matter how tired I am.

Prayers to the victims and families. I cannot even FATHOM the horror of this below deck when it happened.

 

[TPC]

Agreed.. I edited my post, the blocked and locked jumble was probably made by reporters.

My first take was the crew called from the good samaritan boat. News media conjectured that otherwise.
Sheriff is now on the news straightening that all out, getting it all in context.
Sheriffs and CG are both investigating, Captain jumped ship before explosions is what's got the buzz now.

 

[rivergames]

Such a tragic and devastating deal on that boat.

Typically, sportfishers and dive boats only have 1 way in and 1 way out of the galley. If there is an extra escape hatch, most of the passengers have 0 clue where it is located.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Is there not any requirement for a Passenger Carrying Vessel to have a crewman to be standing watch when hanging on the hook ?

Yes, Passenger Carrying Vessels are required to have a roving watchman in that situation.

I've worked on, operated and been involved with USCG Certified Passenger Carrying Vessels since the mid 60s. I've never seen, or heard of, a propane powered galley. Prior to all electric galleys there were diesel powered stoves. Perhaps the most dangerous were the alcohol stoves once found in the galley of some private boats.

 

[LowRiver2]

Boat PI has the right ideas
The Coast Guard has the ball on regulations for this class of boats.
It’s much less stringent than larger vessels.
Guidelines will change as a result.
The galley is always one of the lead causes of Fire on ships.
The answers as to what happened will be found.

A lot of my work diving peers have been on that boat, was just luck none of them were on this trip.
Some will be headed up to assist with the investigation.

 

[TPC]

I find it crazy that 30 people fit down there on such a small boat. I wouldnt catch a wink of sleep stacked up like that. Im the type of person that cant sleep on a plane either, no matter how tired I am.

Prayers to the victims and families. I cannot even FATHOM the horror of this below deck when it happened.

I never liked Cattle Boats either.
Our boat was 33' and slept 9 people comfortably.

I remember on our ocean cruiser boat the galley stove was either electric or an oily kinda white gas that was poured into a gimbaled kinda jackass burner.

I always was leary of the fuel method. Always held the thought one mistake in the rocking and rolling, even at anchor, spill the fuel container on the counter, accidental pour the fuel in when it's hot or on electric,, a million ways to screw up and the galley could ignite and go apeshit real quick.
Always fired up the generator and cooked on electric.

 

[Willie B]

I never liked Cattle Boats either.
Our boat was 33' and slept 9 people comfortably.

I remember on our ocean cruiser boat the galley stove was either electric or an oily kinda white gas that was poured into a gimbaled kinda jackass burner.

I always was leary of the fuel method. Always held the thought one mistake in the rocking and rolling, even at anchor, spill the fuel container on the counter, accidental pour the fuel in when it's hot or on electric,, a million ways to screw up and the galley could ignite and go apeshit real quick.
Always fired up the generator and cooked on electric.

...When I lived aboard rule of thumb was to not use a propane stove ...as propane is a low lying gas and potentially could drop directly into the bilge...alcohol stoves were recommended...don’t know what this boat used for cooking???...

 

[stephenkatsea]

In this tragedy it is likely both the forward staircase exit and the aft emergency escape hatch exit from the bunk area led to a fire and smoke filled galley. The below main deck bunk area likely filled with smoke and other fumes. The occupants would have soon lost consciousness from inhalation of smoke and fumes.

 

[Waterjunky]

...When I lived aboard rule of thumb was to not use a propane stove ...as propane is a low lying gas and potentially could drop directly into the bilge...alcohol stoves were recommended...don’t know what this boat used for cooking???...

Everything was electric, powered by a diesel generator that ran 24/7.

it was a cattle boat, sleep was a bit of an issue......

 

[Moneypit]

Many stories floating around various news organizations as to the cause... NONE are confirmed. One I heard involved crew filling/checking dive tanks on deck while galley cook was firing up for the morning meal... NOT confirmed oxygen mix drifted down into galley and ka boom... There is one crew member missing. Reportedly a female, possibly the cook???
Ray

 

[TPC]

Many stories floating around various news organizations as to the cause... NONE are confirmed. One I heard involved crew filling/checking dive tanks on deck while galley cook was firing up for the morning meal... NOT confirmed oxygen mix drifted down into galley and ka boom... There is one crew member missing. Reportedly a female, possibly the cook???
Ray

They use a mix of Nitrogen and compressed air - Nitrox or simply compressed air. Never Oxygen nor blended oxygen on the civilian Dive boats.

 

[Moneypit]

They use a mix of Nitrogen and compressed air - Nitrox or simply compressed air. Never Oxygen nor blended oxygen on the civilian Dive boats.

Oxygen on board for "first aid" purposes... Was the report...
Ray

 

[DragDad]

I've dove with Truth aquatics since 1984, all three boats. The Conception was probably my favorite. I killed the biggest fish I ever have on her at San Miguel. The crews were always top notch and the boat was easily one of the top five dive boats in California. I was at the lake on the houseboat when we got the news, and my heart broke. They were moored, last day of a multi-day trip, so it was unlikely that it was engine issues. On this particular boat, I can see it being very hard to be trapped downstairs during an engine fire. There's a fire system in the engine room, and it's aft. My guess (assumption, conjecture, whatever) is that this began in the hull under the bunk area and was fuel system of propane system related. Im sad, for the victims, families, and Truth Aquatics... and for the diving community as a whole.

 

[Waterjunky]

They use a mix of Nitrogen and compressed air - Nitrox or simply compressed air. Never Oxygen nor blended oxygen on the civilian Dive boats.

Actually this statement is not true. On this boat it is true and is the most common way. Most normal levels of Nitrox (Oxygen enriched air) are now just run through a membrane filter and you can bump up to about 40%. Think of how they do reverse osmosis water, just air and different filters and hardware but same concept. This is by far the cheapest and easiest way to do this. With the advent of the low cost membrane systems 15-20 years ago (possibly more, not sure) everyone has gone to that. It is also what they used on this boat. They would not be doing this in the middle of the night. If you want to go with a higher mix then they start talking blending tanked oxygen. There was compressed oxygen on the boat that is used in emergencies but again no one was using it in the middle of the night unless there was a preexisting issue and then everyone would be up and a fire would not have surprised everyone.
Even if there was a random oxygen source, what was the fuel?

 

[spectras only]

I've dove with Truth aquatics since 1984, all three boats. The Conception was probably my favorite. My guess (assumption, conjecture, whatever) is that this began in the hull under the bunk area and was fuel system of propane system related. Im sad, for the victims, families, and Truth Aquatics... and for the diving community as a whole.

How would this even be possible, having propane inside a boat? First question I was asked by marine insurance rep if I had propane onboard of my cabin cruiser. I had alcohol stove. They wouldn't insure me if I had propane anywhere on my boat. This was of course a long time ago [ 1974 ], safety systems improved since. I don't even like propane for my BBQ on my back deck.

 

[Waterjunky]

How would this even be possible, having propane inside a boat? First question I was asked by marine insurance rep if I had propane onboard of my cabin cruiser. I had alcohol stove. They wouldn't insure me if I had propane anywhere on my boat. This was of course a long time ago [ 1974 ], safety systems improved since. I don't even like propane for my BBQ on my back deck.

There was no propane on the boat. Even the outdoor BBQ was all electric. There was no alcohol for cooking on the boat.

 

[Old Texan]

How would this even be possible, having propane inside a boat? First question I was asked by marine insurance rep if I had propane onboard of my cabin cruiser. I had alcohol stove. They wouldn't insure me if I had propane anywhere on my boat. This was of course a long time ago [ 1974 ], safety systems improved since. I don't even like propane for my BBQ on my back deck.

Propane is common on shrimp trawlers. But bottles must be on open deck and secured in a dedicated rack.

 

[Carlson-jet]

What a sad deal for so many families.
If they were filling tanks, I wonder about the Hi pressure compressor that was being used. 5k psi compressors make a lot of heat at the top 3 stages and a small malfunction can go wrong quickly.

 

[DaveC]

So very sad for those lost.

That picture of the bunk house and stair case is a big old NOPE. That stair case looks scary. Fuck that

Does anyone know what the other escape hatch looks like? Stairs, Ladders, small hatch, door?????