Diesel Pusher Shopping

[whiteworks]

Had another thought on used rigs, I’d be very skeptical of anything that was built during all that Covid bullshit. I know for a fact that the manufacturers were slapping shit together with what ever parts and pieces were available, “frankenrigs” if you will.

One of my friends is an rv dealer, he panicked when covid first hit and cleared the lots, then quickly realized that it was game on and had to scramble to get inventory to replenish what he dumped.

So the profile may be pre 2020 bus, owened by a Midwest farmer, stored inside his heated barn next to a million dollar combine, maintained by in-house staff on the farm, 6-8k miles a year, enough to get down to the southern end of the country to escape the winters each season. He’s tired of shaking turds out of the tube and bought a condo in Boca Raton and it’s time to sell the prevost bonus points if he has an engineering background

 

[spectras only]

Prevost/Marathon is the pinnacle of motorhomes! Newell next. Newmar is a real good make, friend and his brother have had the Ventana and the Dutchstar. Dutchstar is way above the Ventana. Londonaire is top.
This Dutchstar is a real beauty, and in the 200K range used , it's a smoking deal, considering they're now over 600K CDN.

 

[spectras only]

2025 Newmar factory tour

 

[clarence]

I’m starting to feel like spending hundreds of thousands on a headache may be the wrong idea.

SUV and hotel reservation.

 

[Bowtiepower00]

My 0.02…

Have you owned a RV before? There is absolutely no way that I would buy a high end pusher as my first RV. There is a bit of a learning curve that comes with RV ownership, and the bigger/ nicer the rig the steeper the curve is. What is a minor oops on a smaller cheaper unit could be a big repair bill on a nicer one.

The smaller an RV is, the more you will typically use it. If you aren’t planning on spending a minimum of 6 weeks a year in the thing, it’s going to be a waste of money. I believe your kids are younger, that is the best time to travel if they aren’t homeschooled. Once they start school it becomes difficult to use one that much. We did 2+ months a year before my son was in school, now it’s trips for spring/ fall break and a couple during the summer. Plus a few weekends at Glamis during the winter.

I’m not sure where you plan on using it, but not all parks/ campgrounds can accommodate a 40’+ pusher. Also, a high dollar RV stands out, similar to how a nicer boat stands out- when traveling through certain areas that is not always a good thing.

I grew up in motor homes of all sizes, and am on my second toyhauler. You already have a diesel truck, I would be shopping for a clean used Toyhauler to use for a year to make sure you like RVing. You will lose a lot less money if you decide you hate it.

I like being able to have my truck to drive when I get to my destination, and still be able to haul a SxS or other toys with me. If your plan is to haul the Hallett around I understand why you would want the motorhome instead.

Another option is to find a nice Class A gas RV to drive for a year or two before you make the plunge into a 300k+ unit.

Personally, if I was going to spend big money on a large RV it would be a Super C with Big Block power. It’s going to be in the shop for repairs frequently so I would want the easiest platform to work on.

If you buy new, try to purchase from a dealer close to home, as it will be making several return trips for repairs- and the purchasing dealer is usually going to be easier to deal with than the others. Plan on using it as much as possible to get the bugs worked out under warranty- keeping in mind each time you take it in they will probably have it for several weeks.

 

[BHC Vic]

My 0.02…

Have you owned a RV before? There is absolutely no way that I would buy a high end pusher as my first RV. There is a bit of a learning curve that comes with RV ownership, and the bigger/ nicer the rig the steeper the curve is. What is a minor oops on a smaller cheaper unit could be a big repair bill on a nicer one.

The smaller an RV is, the more you will typically use it. If you aren’t planning on spending a minimum of 6 weeks a year in the thing, it’s going to be a waste of money. I believe your kids are younger, that is the best time to travel if they aren’t homeschooled. Once they start school it becomes difficult to use one that much. We did 2+ months a year before my son was in school, now it’s trips for spring/ fall break and a couple during the summer. Plus a few weekends at Glamis during the winter.

I’m not sure where you plan on using it, but not all parks/ campgrounds can accommodate a 40’+ pusher. Also, a high dollar RV stands out, similar to how a nicer boat stands out- when traveling through certain areas that is not always a good thing.

I grew up in motor homes of all sizes, and am on my second toyhauler. You already have a diesel truck, I would be shopping for a clean used Toyhauler to use for a year to make sure you like RVing. You will lose a lot less money if you decide you hate it.

I like being able to have my truck to drive when I get to my destination, and still be able to haul a SxS or other toys with me. If your plan is to haul the Hallett around I understand why you would want the motorhome instead.

Another option is to find a nice Class A gas RV to drive for a year or two before you make the plunge into a 300k+ unit.

Personally, if I was going to spend big money on a large RV it would be a Super C with Big Block power. It’s going to be in the shop for repairs frequently so I would want the easiest platform to work on.

If you buy new, try to purchase from a dealer close to home, as it will be making several return trips for repairs- and the purchasing dealer is usually going to be easier to deal with than the others. Plan on using it as much as possible to get the bugs worked out under warranty- keeping in mind each time you take it in they will probably have it for several weeks.

This is a solid post from everything I’m learning now as a new RV owner. One day a high end unit will be in the backyard. But I’m so happy I’m learning on what we have first.

 

[FROGMAN524]

SUV and hotel reservation.

Not easy traveling with a bunch of kids in car seats and a large German Shepherd, but I’ve done it before, like to Lake Tahoe, and it is possible, it’s just not the same deal. you don’t get the camping experience like when going out riding in the desert or seeing national parks.

 

[FROGMAN524]

My 0.02…

Have you owned a RV before? There is absolutely no way that I would buy a high end pusher as my first RV. There is a bit of a learning curve that comes with RV ownership, and the bigger/ nicer the rig the steeper the curve is. What is a minor oops on a smaller cheaper unit could be a big repair bill on a nicer one.

The smaller an RV is, the more you will typically use it. If you aren’t planning on spending a minimum of 6 weeks a year in the thing, it’s going to be a waste of money. I believe your kids are younger, that is the best time to travel if they aren’t homeschooled. Once they start school it becomes difficult to use one that much. We did 2+ months a year before my son was in school, now it’s trips for spring/ fall break and a couple during the summer. Plus a few weekends at Glamis during the winter.

I’m not sure where you plan on using it, but not all parks/ campgrounds can accommodate a 40’+ pusher. Also, a high dollar RV stands out, similar to how a nicer boat stands out- when traveling through certain areas that is not always a good thing.

I grew up in motor homes of all sizes, and am on my second toyhauler. You already have a diesel truck, I would be shopping for a clean used Toyhauler to use for a year to make sure you like RVing. You will lose a lot less money if you decide you hate it.

I like being able to have my truck to drive when I get to my destination, and still be able to haul a SxS or other toys with me. If your plan is to haul the Hallett around I understand why you would want the motorhome instead.

Another option is to find a nice Class A gas RV to drive for a year or two before you make the plunge into a 300k+ unit.

Personally, if I was going to spend big money on a large RV it would be a Super C with Big Block power. It’s going to be in the shop for repairs frequently so I would want the easiest platform to work on.

If you buy new, try to purchase from a dealer close to home, as it will be making several return trips for repairs- and the purchasing dealer is usually going to be easier to deal with than the others. Plan on using it as much as possible to get the bugs worked out under warranty- keeping in mind each time you take it in they will probably have it for several weeks.

This is a very good post with a lot of good points and we’re on the same page in our thought process. I grew up RVing. My parents started renting Ford c class gas rvs from cruise America and then we owned a fifth wheel and then a class A front engine Diesel and then a tag trailer and of the 4, I really liked the class A at the most.

 

[FROGMAN524]

Can somebody explain the difference between allegro bus and a phaeton?

I understand one has a side radiator and one has a rear radiator but the date looks just to be about the same. It’s a little bit less money and it has the front drop down bunk, which is nice.

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www.transwest.com

 

[Done-it-again]

Can somebody explain the difference between allegro bus and a phaeton?

I understand one has a side radiator and one has a rear radiator but the date looks just to be about the same. It’s a little bit less money and it has the front drop down bunk, which is nice.

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www.transwest.com

I’m sure you will see the difference in the interior. Side radiators cool better and the bus will give you 15k towing if you need that. Prior to Thor owning them and AB had more hp.

My OP I would go newmar Ventana for a production rig vs a tiffin thor product.

 

[CANUCK007]

Can somebody explain the difference between allegro bus and a phaeton?

I understand one has a side radiator and one has a rear radiator but the date looks just to be about the same. It’s a little bit less money and it has the front drop down bunk, which is nice.

Loading…

www.transwest.com

Bus has full body paint. Power day and night shades. Ifs power glide chassis. Phaeton does not. I’m sure other opinions too

 

[CLdrinker]

This thread makes me want a trailer/toy hauler to avoid all the headaches.

That’s what I was thinking.

 

[Done-it-again]

Maybe this floor plan might be best if you can find a used one (2 bedroom unit). Not sure if Newmar will still build one.

Newmar Ventana 4329​

 

[Done-it-again]

That’s what I was thinking.

It sucks with kids/dogs driving. Truck gets small fast.

 

[Singleton]

Not easy traveling with a bunch of kids in car seats and a large German Shepherd, but I’ve done it before, like to Lake Tahoe, and it is possible, it’s just not the same deal. you don’t get the camping experience like when going out riding in the desert or seeing national parks.

That same car seat, dog issues occurs when you do Truck w/ToyHauler. Once at camp, you get the room.
But getting from point A to B, everyone is jammed in the truck.
One thing to remember, less than 10% of RV sites within National Parks accommodate a rig over 40’.
36’ is the number, 80% of sites within a National Parks accommodate RV/Trailer 36 or smaller.

Parks outside will accommodate rigs over 40’.

 

[monkeyswrench]

It sucks with kids/dogs driving. Truck gets small fast.

I was thinking about trailers vs coaches a bit. I think some people may be more comfortable driving one over the other. Me personally, I really prefer a 40+ft trailer behind a large truck. It's just a lot more familiar to me. Having just driven a 45ft DP with a 26ft trailer this week...not my cup of tea. Backing and maneuvering is quite a bit different than what I'm accustomed to.

 

[FROGMAN524]

That same car seat, dog issues occurs when you do Truck w/ToyHauler. Once at camp, you get the room.
But getting from point A to B, everyone is jammed in the truck.
One thing to remember, less than 10% of RV sites within National Parks accommodate a rig over 40’.
36’ is the number, 80% of sites within a National Parks accommodate RV/Trailer 36 or smaller.

Parks outside will accommodate rigs over 40’.

Could get an allegro bus in the 35’ range without a tag. Would be cheaper unless room and 1 bath I think.

 

[Done-it-again]

I was thinking about trailers vs coaches a bit. I think some people may be more comfortable driving one over the other. Me personally, I really prefer a 40+ft trailer behind a large truck. It's just a lot more familiar to me. Having just driven a 45ft DP with a 26ft trailer this week...not my cup of tea. Backing and maneuvering is quite a bit different than what I'm accustomed to.

100% backing up towing a trailer sucks and forget about doing it if flat towing. But I can drive further in a DP vs truck/trailer and I’m not as beat at the end of a driving day.

 

[Singleton]

Could get an allegro bus in the 35’ range without a tag. Would be cheaper unless room and 1 bath I think.

We were looking at the Allegro Bus years ago, before we got the ToyHauler.
Had the drop down bed, which was an option we required.

What my research showed, prior to C19, very few DP’s were built for a family. Covid made manufactures change it up and switch floor plans and become more family friendly. Problem is, Covid coaches had quality issues. Once Thor purchased Tiffin, we went another direction. With Tiffin family members back in leadership positions, I think the quality issue they had in Covid will finally go away.

 

[Done-it-again]

That same car seat, dog issues occurs when you do Truck w/ToyHauler. Once at camp, you get the room.
But getting from point A to B, everyone is jammed in the truck.
One thing to remember, less than 10% of RV sites within National Parks accommodate a rig over 40’.
36’ is the number, 80% of sites within a National Parks accommodate RV/Trailer 36 or smaller.

Parks outside will accommodate rigs over 40’.

Campgrounds inside National Parks typically don’t have full hookups. Usually only water/power or power only.

Might not be possible with a bunch of kids and not used to that type of camping.

 

[Singleton]

100% backing up towing a trailer sucks and forget about doing it if flat towing. But I can drive further in a DP vs truck/trailer and I’m not as beat at the end of a driving day.

This 100%.
I was always mentally drained after 6-8 hours with truck/trailer. 6-8 in the RV still allows me to be a happy camper each night.

 

[NicPaus]

Not easy traveling with a bunch of kids in car seats and a large German Shepherd, but I’ve done it before, like to Lake Tahoe, and it is possible, it’s just not the same deal. you don’t get the camping experience like when going out riding in the desert or seeing national parks.

My Friend bought a Mercedes sprinter camper to travel to and from his destinations. With 3 young kids and 3 dogs. He tried every SUV. Said its a game changer. He leaves a huge park model at the river for summer. The sprinter can haul the boat from storage. No stopping to pee. Kids can sleep comfortably while traveling.

He had a huge toterhome, diesel pusher and numerous trailers.

 

[propcheck]

One thing I am learning the expensive way is look at an engine with sleeved cylinders so your repairs are a whole lot less . As for my .02 I feel 2006-2009 diesel pushers have Some of the best build quality. I did not buy a COVID coach specifically because of the mix match component crap that was going on. I bought an old pusher knowing it was getting gutted and updated because I have a long history of tearing apart new stuff just to make it my own so I saved money there I had not planned on a new engine but Shit happens and I am still not but hurt over the cost Of the whole thing because it is paid for.

 

[hallett21]

My Friend bought a Mercedes sprinter camper to travel to and from his destinations. With 3 young kids and 3 dogs. He tried every SUV. Said its a game changer. He leaves a huge park model at the river for summer. The sprinter can haul the boat from storage. No stopping to pee. Kids can sleep comfortably while traveling.

He had a huge toterhome, diesel pusher and numerous trailers.

I keep joking about this. I may need to consider it lol.

 

[NicPaus]

I keep joking about this. I may need to consider it lol.

The easier it is the more often you use it.

 

[Justsomeguy]

I keep joking about this. I may need to consider it lol.

My sister really wants one. My neighbor has one for sale. Looks like it needs some love though.

 

[baja-chris]

Here is my pre-Covid, pre-Winnebago, 2019 Newmar Dutch Star 4362, $265k. In Havasu.

Newmar RV Owners - Buy/Sell - info | 2019 Newmar Dutch Star 4362 | Facebook

2019 Newmar Dutch Star 4362. $265k, 40k miles. Very recent full service of both coach and chassis including all new tires and batteries (both coach and chassis). Has Airforce 1 tow brakes, Starlink...

www.facebook.com

 

[monkeyswrench]

100% backing up towing a trailer sucks and forget about doing it if flat towing. But I can drive further in a DP vs truck/trailer and I’m not as beat at the end of a driving day.

I will say, after driving this thing, it's comfy A'F! I was asked to do some audio work to it, for the TV's and such. My ass would need a big system in it...driver's seat is nicer than most recliners, and the suspension feels like a Cadillac. This one is 20 years old, I can't imagine how nice the new ones must feel.

 

[Cooter01]

The easier it is the more often you use it.

Ain't this the damn truth!!!! I use my 28' toy hauler way more then the big fifth wheel. Was going to buy a 40' RV a year ago and the misses said we have the big toy hauler that use a handful of times per year yet use the small trailer every month.

 

[FROGMAN524]

Here is my pre-Covid, pre-Winnebago, 2019 Newmar Dutch Star 4362, $265k. In Havasu.

Newmar RV Owners - Buy/Sell - info | 2019 Newmar Dutch Star 4362 | Facebook

2019 Newmar Dutch Star 4362. $265k, 40k miles. Very recent full service of both coach and chassis including all new tires and batteries (both coach and chassis). Has Airforce 1 tow brakes, Starlink...

www.facebook.com

Can you copy the add and photos here? I don’t have FB

 

[ArizonaKevin]

Can you copy the add and photos here? I don’t have FB

It appears to be a gorgeous coach, but I'd say no chance in hell it sleeps 6 comfortably. To someone's point earlier, most of these are designed for retired folks that may have to accommodate a grandkid or two every now and then, not necessarily an active family.

I believe you have a relatively young one, one good thing we discovered with my parents phaeton is that the rear bathroom makes a great spot for a pack n play, almost like an extra bedroom. Just need to make sure your showers are all done prior to the little ones bedtime.

 

[Ladsm]

That’s what I was thinking.

I would never buy a new motorhome. Buy used that has had the bugs worked out.

 

[rush1]

Looking at new Newmar diesel coaches in California at Mike Thompson and they have CARB clean air stickers on them. Do these have even more emissions shit than the Florida coaches I’m looking at?

No there the same, all it means is that they meet California standards

 

[baja-chris]

Ours sleeps 4. Pull out bed with air mattress plus the king sleep number.

Edit: It sold yesterday. Now in market for an X15 powered Newmar. LMK if you have one for sale.
I think 2019 is the sweet spot for these, pre-Covid, pre-Winnebago, and DEF issues pretty much a thing of the past.
Might look at some older Foretravel, Newell or Prevost but we insist on zero carpet (including slides) so those are likely out of $$ reach for us.

 

[FROGMAN524]

Anybody have a preference on K2 Spartan vs Freightliner? Spartan is additional $15,000 on a Dutch Star.

 

[FROGMAN524]

Ours sleeps 4. Pull out bed with air mattress plus the king sleep number.

Edit: It sold yesterday. Now in market for an X15 powered Newmar. LMK if you have one for sale.
I think 2019 is the sweet spot for these, pre-Covid, pre-Winnebago, and DEF issues pretty much a thing of the past.
Might look at some older Foretravel, Newell or Prevost but we insist on zero carpet (including slides) so those are likely out of $$ reach for us.

Congrats on the quick sale. Was the ISL not enough juice? I’ve heard the X15 has all the power but you give up 3MPG or so.

 

[Fastech382]

Not sure if this has been said but the 8.7 L cummins is junk. They never should have moved away from the 8.9. same block but tuned to match the power and it didn't work.

 

[FROGMAN524]

Not sure if this has been said but the 8.7 L cummins is junk. They never should have moved away from the 8.9. same block but tuned to match the power and it didn't work.

It's an ISL 8.9L/ Never heard of an 8.7 unless you mean a 6.7 ISB.

 

[69hondo]

I have ISL 8.9 in my 40ft Allego bus and its been great.
I constantly pull 10k

 

[monkeyswrench]

Anybody have a preference on K2 Spartan vs Freightliner? Spartan is additional $15,000 on a Dutch Star.

K2 rides a lot better, but I don't know about steering radius. The other options that come with the K2 may cause the bump too, like the air and hydraulic leveling stuff. I don't know if Freightliner's is inclusive, and I don't know if it's any different.

 

[PRORACER7474]

It appears to be a gorgeous coach, but I'd say no chance in hell it sleeps 6 comfortably. To someone's point earlier, most of these are designed for retired folks that may have to accommodate a grandkid or two every now and then, not necessarily an active family.

I believe you have a relatively young one, one good thing we discovered with my parents phaeton is that the rear bathroom makes a great spot for a pack n play, almost like an extra bedroom. Just need to make sure your showers are all done prior to the little ones bedtime.

You are right on that we have had 3 Newmars, currenty a London Aire and it is designed for a couple

 

[PRORACER7474]

Ours sleeps 4. Pull out bed with air mattress plus the king sleep number.

Edit: It sold yesterday. Now in market for an X15 powered Newmar. LMK if you have one for sale.
I think 2019 is the sweet spot for these, pre-Covid, pre-Winnebago, and DEF issues pretty much a thing of the past.
Might look at some older Foretravel, Newell or Prevost but we insist on zero carpet (including slides) so those are likely out of $$ reach for us.

I just moved up from a 8.9 ISL Mountain Aire to a 15 liter 605 Cummins London Aire, it is a rocket ship power wise. I was coming up Tehachapi from Bakersfield and got caught behind 2 trucks trying to pass going 20mph, when I finally got by within 2 miles I hit 80MPH going uphill, my old ISL would be down to 45

 

[PRORACER7474]

Congrats on the quick sale. Was the ISL not enough juice? I’ve heard the X15 has all the power but you give up 3MPG or so.

The best mileage I ever got with my 2014 Newmar Mountain Aire was 6.4 MPG, with my 2019 London Aire with a 605 the 1st trip 1200 miles I averaged 7.3 MPG. I was always floored with the 450 ISL and now it just crusies at 1/4 throttle [of course i set the cruise at 76mph}

 

[monkeyswrench]

You are right on that we have had 3 Newmars, currenty a London Aire and it is designed for a couple

An old friend had his Prevost out at Glamis, maybe 25 years ago. I'd never been in one...it was gorgeous. Being a young pup, I asked him "how many does it sleep?"
His response: "Well, when the grandkids come, 4...one on the couch and one on the floor"

 

[PRORACER7474]

K2 rides a lot better, but I don't know about steering radius. The other options that come with the K2 may cause the bump too, like the air and hydraulic leveling stuff. I don't know if Freightliner's is inclusive, and I don't know if it's any different.

I have had 2 Spartan coaches and the last 2 were Frieghtliners, my new one is a Freightliner and it has both air and Hyd. leveling [the air leveling is badass when you are traveling and pull over for a quick night at a truck stop/rest area you push one button and got to bed and in the morning hit another button and no waiting for jacks to retract or air to build up] Both chassis have Comfort Drive which is a game changer. I switched to Freightliner because it is easier for parts and service

 

[monkeyswrench]

I have had 2 Spartan coaches and the last 2 were Frieghtliners, my new one is a Freightliner and it has both air and Hyd. leveling [the air leveling is badass when you are traveling and pull over for a quick night at a truck stop/rest area you push one button and got to bed and in the morning hit another button and no waiting for jacks to retract or air to build up] Both chassis have Comfort Drive which is a game changer. I switched to Freightliner because it is easier for parts and service

That's always been my issue with the K2 stuff...not a lot of sources. I have multiple Freightliner outlets within 100 miles though. To be fair, I really only work on stuff when it's broken, and out of warranty. Owning one is a bit out of my range.

 

[FROGMAN524]

I have had 2 Spartan coaches and the last 2 were Frieghtliners, my new one is a Freightliner and it has both air and Hyd. leveling [the air leveling is badass when you are traveling and pull over for a quick night at a truck stop/rest area you push one button and got to bed and in the morning hit another button and no waiting for jacks to retract or air to build up] Both chassis have Comfort Drive which is a game changer. I switched to Freightliner because it is easier for parts and service

Any regrets going FL? Spartan is another $12,500 if I order a DS. Sales has 4 FLs in stock in my 4340 floor plan and wants to sell me one bad.

 

[PRORACER7474]

Any regrets going FL? Spartan is another $12,500 if I order a DS. Sales has 4 FLs in stock in my 4340 floor plan and wants to sell me one bad.

not at all, they are both great chassis

 

[PRORACER7474]

Any regrets going FL? Spartan is another $12,500 if I order a DS. Sales has 4 FLs in stock in my 4340 floor plan and wants to sell me one bad.

are you going to be towing

 

[QC22]

I’ve heard the X15 has all the power but you give up 3MPG or so.

Diesel vehicle MPG is way more about load (weight, grade, rolling and air resistance) than displacement. Gas engines are an entirely different discussion. The difference is literally the power necessary to turn bigger stuff (pistons, rods, etc.) round and round. The smaller displacements are run at higher RPM too, so they give some back turning faster. Another way to think about it is engines don't get MPG, vehicles do.