Diesel Pusher Shopping

[FROGMAN524]

Mods: I would put this in the correct sub forum but afraid I wouldn’t get any traction there, so move if you must.

My wife and I are looking to either buy a brand new diesel pusher or super C in the next month or two. I was talking to my neighbor about it yesterday, who owns a trucking company, and also has a 2006 Newmar Essex with the 14.9L Cummins, 500hp, pre-emissions.

He warned me to buy a diesel pusher that’s 2008 or older without DPF/DEF or I’d be having a lot of headaches, especially on a brand new unit. He also told me if I buy a new unit and delete it, there are required inspections every other year, no matter what county you registered in l, if the GVWR is over 50,000lbs, and if I get caught, it’s like a $50,000 fine.

Does any of this sound correct to you guys?

I want a newer unit or a new unit because we want bunkbeds and the overhead bunk unit that comes down above the driver seat, kind of like a Ventana 4340, but we could also save a lot of money and get a bigger engine if I go back 10 or 15 years and get something like a Mountain Aire, Essex, King Aire or Tiffin Allegro Bus.

Please opine

 

[Wizard29]

What state?

 

[monkeyswrench]

He is dead nuts on pre-DEF crap. If you get a new one, and delete it, a Cummins dealer is not "supposed" to work on it. (That's the official statement of Velocity Truck Centers as of a few months ago.) I don't know if the fines are that heavy for private use, haven't had any first hand yet.

A 500ISM, pre-EGR (and also pre-DEF), is a pretty badass motor. They are pretty trouble free. Not the most fuel efficient, but make pretty good power.

 

[Singleton]

You could always buy pre-DEF then remodel it.

 

[FROGMAN524]

Other issue I’ve been finding on the RV forums is that the pre-2010 Cummins ISX engines, like his, were DOHC and had major issues with dropping valves in the #6 cylinder. This may have been remedied with the 2010 and up engines with the SOHC. Doesn’t seem to be an issue on ISL, ISM or ISB engines. ISX is the big boy and will be in any 45’ pusher I’d be interested in so that puts me into emissions territory but I’d rather deal with emissions than dropping valves.


@Wizard29 We’re in AZ but can do the Montana LLC like all the other “clever” folks around here do.

 

[Justsomeguy]

I would take monkeywrenches advice. He seems to be well versed in these motors. Singleton has the idea i think.

South Dakota does not require residency or an llc.

 

[Done-it-again]

You can also buy an extended warranty
Check out wholesale warranties. They cover just about everything. My father had it and replaced quite a few things Worked out well for him.

Not sure of your budget. But this guy gets some good stuff, prices are slightly higher, but they go over the complete coach in detail

You have to call them as they don’t list everything they have.

Motorcoach Showroom - The Motorcoach Store

www.themotorcoachstore.com

Also Check Andrew’s YouTube channel

RVing with Andrew Steele

Being in the RV industry, I come across all kinds of cool RV related stuff that I would like to share with the world.

m.youtube.com

 

[monkeyswrench]

Other issue I’ve been finding on the RV forums is that the pre-2010 Cummins ISX engines, like his, were DOHC and had major issues with dropping valves in the #6 cylinder. This may have been remedied with the 2010 and up engines with the SOHC. Doesn’t seem to be an issue on ISL, ISM or ISB engines. ISX is the big boy and will be in any 45’ pusher I’d be interested in so that puts me into emissions territory but I’d rather deal with emissions than dropping valves.


@Wizard29 We’re in AZ but can do the Montana LLC like all the other “clever” folks around here do.

The ISX in the coaches seem to have pretty limited issues, but I'm also pretty limited on how many I see...if that makes sense. The "DEF module" can be problematic, but that's the same in anything really, and the actual EGR pipe. Not the cooler or any of that, the actual exhaust pipe thing. I think the replacement part is updated though, and doesn't have the same issue of cracking.

The problem was they'd crack, and then give the system messed up readings. Then, the infamous limp mode. It was a common enough issue a fee years back every dealer it seemed had 2 or 3 on the shelf.

 

[FROGMAN524]

The ISX in the coaches seem to have pretty limited issues, but I'm also pretty limited on how many I see...if that makes sense. The "DEF module" can be problematic, but that's the same in anything really, and the actual EGR pipe. Not the cooler or any of that, the actual exhaust pipe thing. I think the replacement part is updated though, and doesn't have the same issue of cracking.

The problem was they'd crack, and then give the system messed up readings. Then, the infamous limp mode. It was a common enough issue a fee years back every dealer it seemed had 2 or 3 on the shelf.

X15 came out in 2016 coaches? Or 2017 coaches with 2016 engines?

I want the big engine, Spartan chassis, bath and a half that has bunks. Having a hard time finding anything older than about 2 years with these options. Looking at Newmar and Tiffin, American Coach and Entegra. In that order.

 

[FROGMAN524]

Here’s an ISM 500 with bath and a half but no bunks. I’d remodel it with lighter interior like the newer ones have. Seems all the old ones were very dark interiors only.

Check out this 2011 Newmar ESSEX 4524 shared from the RVTrader iOS App.
https://hr4kf.app.goo.gl/FCtoK

 

[Singleton]

On the newer ones (post DEF), they have to be run. Sitting for long periods of time seems to cause issues.

When my renegade visited the shop, the maintenance manager at Velocity Flagstaff said, run it at highway speed at least once a month and never use DEF from the pump if you plan on parking it for a few weeks after fueling

 

[TripleB]

What will you be using the rv for?
Where will you be using it?
what seasons will you be using it?
As far as used, batterie, tires and roof can make a good deal bad.

 

[n2otoofast4u]

My buddy is XYZ big something with Tiffin. He was just in FL at the Tampa (I think) RV show representing them from clear out here in Washington. I can get you connected with him if interested.

 

[Cooter01]

I have been researching for a diesel pusher and been around diesels since 2005 to current in consumer trucks. I am personally avoiding the emission models as they are headaches. They liked to be worked and worked hard, sitting with def kills the sensors like e85 does in a car. They do offer spartan chassis on older models, you will have to search for them and layout. I am willing to give up a small layout for a rock solid drivetrain setup. Also with the older models you can get tuning done to them to add hp and torque, usually an extra 100 hp and 3-500 ft lbs can be added safely. The one draw back to older models is the legal towing capacity of them as times where much different on chassis and testing. If you plan on using the rv a lot and often you could get emission wise, not saying they are all bad, just more headaches then they are worth. One buddy has constant def sensors issues, he lives in a cold/snow state. The def sensor will freeze and put his unit in limp mode. He has to warm up the sensors to draw out the moisture and burn them off to get the unit to idle and run. He now drives it once a month to keep things happen.

 

[monkeyswrench]

X15 came out in 2016 coaches? Or 2017 coaches with 2016 engines?

I want the big engine, Spartan chassis, bath and a half that has bunks. Having a hard time finding anything older than about 2 years with these options. Looking at Newmar and Tiffin, American Coach and Entegra. In that order.

The bath and a half with bunks seems to be a newer thing, that's for sure. The '04 Travel Supreme I've been messing with is a Spartan K2 chassis. Funny you mention remodeling, that's what this guy is thinking. He'd like to go with more modern colors and millwork. He has an unfair advantage though, he owns a cabinet company, and knows his way around woodwork. As for chassis and motors, the model year of the coach can be one, and even as much as two years different from the drivetrain. The Spartan chassis drive, and ride, really nice. To me, much better than the Freightliner chassis. The drawback, some of the steering and suspension components are Spartan only, which means they can be pricey, and certified shops are a bit scarce. The advantage though, Spartan themselves will actually help you with email questions and info.

As pointed out above, DEF motors need to be worked regularly. This was one of the main issues with all the little diesel trucks. People would by them up here for running around, and Home Depot runs. We don't have any real highway speed areas for miles. Big problems. Honestly, it's the same for the newer John Deere and Kubota tractors. New property owners buy these new units to tend 5 and 10 acre properties. They idle them around, never building any heat. The DEF systems need a certain temperature to do their thing. If you do get a coach that has all this stuff, I suggest you get a scanner that can check codes, and also force a regen. It is nice to have, and can save you a bunch of headaches.

 

[spectras only]

I would buy an older unit, no DEF for sure. This unit is pretty cheap, 67,000 us, depreciation done long time. I'd have to win the powerball to pull the trigger on a new unit

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This is a better unit though, 161,000. US Friend has a Tiffin, nice mohos

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Marketplace is flooded with mohos, many retirees giving up rving

 

[rush1]

Other issue I’ve been finding on the RV forums is that the pre-2010 Cummins ISX engines, like his, were DOHC and had major issues with dropping valves in the #6 cylinder. This may have been remedied with the 2010 and up engines with the SOHC. Doesn’t seem to be an issue on ISL, ISM or ISB engines. ISX is the big boy and will be in any 45’ pusher I’d be interested in so that puts me into emissions territory but I’d rather deal with emissions than dropping valves.


@Wizard29 We’re in AZ but can do the Montana LLC like all the other “clever” folks around here do.

ISL<ISM<ISB dont have overhead cam

 

[rush1]

X15 came out in 2016 coaches? Or 2017 coaches with 2016 engines?

I want the big engine, Spartan chassis, bath and a half that has bunks. Having a hard time finding anything older than about 2 years with these options. Looking at Newmar and Tiffin, American Coach and Entegra. In that order.

Entegra has a 2x4 floor the smallest water leak and its junk .

 

[rush1]

The bath and a half with bunks seems to be a newer thing, that's for sure. The '04 Travel Supreme I've been messing with is a Spartan K2 chassis. Funny you mention remodeling, that's what this guy is thinking. He'd like to go with more modern colors and millwork. He has an unfair advantage though, he owns a cabinet company, and knows his way around woodwork. As for chassis and motors, the model year of the coach can be one, and even as much as two years different from the drivetrain. The Spartan chassis drive, and ride, really nice. To me, much better than the Freightliner chassis. The drawback, some of the steering and suspension components are Spartan only, which means they can be pricey, and certified shops are a bit scarce. The advantage though, Spartan themselves will actually help you with email questions and info.

As pointed out above, DEF motors need to be worked regularly. This was one of the main issues with all the little diesel trucks. People would by them up here for running around, and Home Depot runs. We don't have any real highway speed areas for miles. Big problems. Honestly, it's the same for the newer John Deere and Kubota tractors. New property owners buy these new units to tend 5 and 10 acre properties. They idle them around, never building any heat. The DEF systems need a certain temperature to do their thing. If you do get a coach that has all this stuff, I suggest you get a scanner that can check codes, and also force a regen. It is nice to have, and can save you a bunch of headaches.

Spartan chassis are the closest ride to a Prevost ride there is .

 

[Mandelon]

Note that some RV parks don't allow units that are over 10 years old. I know that has nothing to do with the power and comfort, but if higher end parks are in your plans it is something to consider.

 

[rush1]

I have been researching for a diesel pusher and been around diesels since 2005 to current in consumer trucks. I am personally avoiding the emission models as they are headaches. They liked to be worked and worked hard, sitting with def kills the sensors like e85 does in a car. They do offer spartan chassis on older models, you will have to search for them and layout. I am willing to give up a small layout for a rock solid drivetrain setup. Also with the older models you can get tuning done to them to add hp and torque, usually an extra 100 hp and 3-500 ft lbs can be added safely. The one draw back to older models is the legal towing capacity of them as times where much different on chassis and testing. If you plan on using the rv a lot and often you could get emission wise, not saying they are all bad, just more headaches then they are worth. One buddy has constant def sensors issues, he lives in a cold/snow state. The def sensor will freeze and put his unit in limp mode. He has to warm up the sensors to draw out the moisture and burn them off to get the unit to idle and run. He now drives it once a month to keep things happen.

Stay away from the cat powered coaches that have electronic injection There's a reason why Cat stopped making on road engines . any older diesel coach you'll need 10 grand for tires , batteries, and new air bags and ride height valves . plus tv upgrades but they are the only coaches to buy. any smogged late model coach other than a Prevost is absolute junk, all of the high end manufactures are gone other than Newmar and Newmar was bought out and isn't the same company. American coach is a former shell of itself and the REV group that owns them is completely focused on quarter profits not long term quality coach like they use to build.

 

[boatnam2]

Man it blows you cant drop 400k on a newer rig because you're afraid it will break.

 

[Ducksquasher]

I would take monkeywrenches advice. He seems to be well versed in these motors. Singleton has the idea i think.

South Dakota does not require residency or an llc.

How does the South Dakota thing work for reg?

 

[BHC Vic]

What will you be using the rv for?
Where will you be using it?
what seasons will you be using it?
As far as used, batterie, tires and roof can make a good deal bad.

This x100 where and what are u using it for

 

[Singleton]

Note that some RV parks don't allow units that are over 10 years old. I know that has nothing to do with the power and comfort, but if higher end parks are in your plans it is something to consider.

And some parks don’t allow Super C’s.

 

[ArizonaKevin]

Unfortunately you kind of have to plan for where your headaches are going to be. Older coaches you'll dodge the emissions headache, but be prepared for a bunch of headaches on the inside with appliances, electrical issues etc. A lot of people have rose tinted glasses about pre-def coaches (rightfully so) but then have to drop a few thousand on a new fridge (windshield has to come out), roof issues, AC issues, water leaks, slide motors etc.

 

[Done-it-again]

If getting a new rig. Expect the 1st year getting the bugs worked out. That’s including Tiffins and Newmars. Would suggest a couple year old if you want newer.

 

[Cooter01]

Stay away from the cat powered coaches that have electronic injection There's a reason why Cat stopped making on road engines . any older diesel coach you'll need 10 grand for tires , batteries, and new air bags and ride height valves . plus tv upgrades but they are the only coaches to buy. any smogged late model coach other than a Prevost is absolute junk, all of the high end manufactures are gone other than Newmar and Newmar was bought out and isn't the same company. American coach is a former shell of itself and the REV group that owns them is completely focused on quarter profits not long term quality coach like they use to build.

Correct on CAT, I was going to mention that, yet not sure high far off of the deep end needed to go LOL. I find tires, batteries, and such are wear items and need to be replaced at some point in the life of the coach so to me not a huge factor. Plus some newer coaches they put the cheapest tires on them that will last for 1-3 years before needing replaced, same with batteries, invertors for solar, and other inferior parts. It is all relative on how you plan to keep the unit, maintain it and such. One thing to consider is insurance and registration. A 2020 coach I looked at was a grand a month for insurance versus $300 for a 2002 unit. Good savings there too. I plan to use mine once a month or so for weekend trips or long week trips. I also have a toy hauler for other trips, helps not being married to one unit for camping. Nice to have options. I am finding the older stuff is build better and less headaches once addressed and setup.

 

[DLC]

I was just talking to a friend yesterday about the DEF issues he has quite a few Big trucks & concrete boom pumps etc

He says if the the coach sits the def injectors clog up and then trips the rig into limp mode
an hour or 2 from home base & just when your headed out for an adventure ….

Bottom line they need to be ran

 

[Cooter01]

The biggest issue with DEF is it will crystallize and that is when the issues start. You could put a heater on the DEF tank to circulate the fluid when parked, drain the fluid and put in fresh junk, or leave it as is and run it. For a coach I would go older and avoid DEF if possible. Nothing like chasing bad money with good money on emission bs.

 

[Thing One]

What is up with Ca mandating smog inspections for all diesel motorhomes every six months?

 

[DarkHorseRacing]

What is up with Ca mandating smog inspections for all diesel motorhomes every six months?

Simple. To meet their environmental bs, the more rigs they can fail and take off the road the better the greenies feel about being the fun police.

 

[hallett21]

And some parks don’t allow Super C’s.

Really? How come?

 

[monkeyswrench]

I was just talking to a friend yesterday about the DEF issues he has quite a few Big trucks & concrete boom pumps etc

He says if the the coach sits the def injectors clog up and then trips the rig into limp mode
an hour or 2 from home base & just when your headed out for an adventure ….

Bottom line they need to be ran

What I've had pretty good luck doing with crystallized DEF, running the "pump test" on the scanner while running the truck. Instead of doing a metered pulse type thing, it opens it up and ramps pressure. Gets to be an issue annually out her our first really cold snap. It freezes the DEF, and I think separates/crystallizes the lines to the injector.

Spartan chassis are the closest ride to a Prevost ride there is .

Only driven 2 Prevost coaches. The first was 25 years ago, and I was scared shitless. I was 22, driving something worth more than any house I'd been in The second was just a few years back, airbag work. It was not a happy camper getting it home...and then the owner took it home when I was done.

 

[Bullhead bully]

We owned four different diesel motorhomes over the years and without a doubt my 09 allegro bus was my favorite. We had a gap where we didn’t own one until 2021 where we bought a brand new allegro bus and it was a complete nightmare. Got rid of it and took advantage of the inflation high demand bubble and got rid of it quickly. Right now without. But I do agree older is definitely better. The newer coaches are just a bummer so many problems.

 

[Singleton]

Really? How come?

Some of the higher end RV resorts.
Tried booking one in Vegas and got turned away

 

[Done-it-again]

Some of the higher end RV resorts.
Tried booking one in Vegas and got turned away

They are afraid you will be playing corn hole with loud music till 3am.

 

[RCDave2]

We owned four different diesel motorhomes over the years and without a doubt my 09 allegro bus was my favorite. We had a gap where we didn’t own one until 2021 where we bought a brand new allegro bus and it was a complete nightmare. Got rid of it and took advantage of the inflation high demand bubble and got rid of it quickly. Right now without. But I do agree older is definitely better. The newer coaches are just a bummer so many problems.

That the year Allegro Bus we own. Solid coach!

 

[brgrcru]

My little cat c-7 purrs just like a little kitten
No def and has plenty of power

Wish cat still made engines for large cars

I’d never buy a new emission diesel
For play

My 2022 x15 in my Pete had been trouble free
But it runs all day .

It’s just like the diesel pick ups
Run them hard, or buy a gasser

 

[FROGMAN524]

My buddy is XYZ big something with Tiffin. He was just in FL at the Tampa (I think) RV show representing them from clear out here in Washington. I can get you connected with him if interested.

Don’t think they make an M2 Super C but looked at a Phaeton last time the RV show was at Cardinals stadium. Wife liked the Allegro Bay 38 CB with bunks but it’s on the smaller S2RV chassis.

If going new, we’re thinking a new Ventana 4340, a Renegade Verona 40VBH or a DX3 or larger Dynamax on M2.

Would like to stay under $350,000 OTD anyway we go.

After reading everything here, may be better to go with a 15-20 year old 45’ DP and redo the interior like my neighbor did with his 2006 Essex on Spartan K3 chassis.

 

[FROGMAN524]

We owned four different diesel motorhomes over the years and without a doubt my 09 allegro bus was my favorite. We had a gap where we didn’t own one until 2021 where we bought a brand new allegro bus and it was a complete nightmare. Got rid of it and took advantage of the inflation high demand bubble and got rid of it quickly. Right now without. But I do agree older is definitely better. The newer coaches are just a bummer so many problems.

What motor in that 2009?

 

[FROGMAN524]

If going new, and EGR/DPF/DEF/SCR delete and tune is possible, are emissions required? Is anyone going to be checking me out with an SD or MT reg? Or even Mohave county AZ reg?

 

[Singleton]

If going new, and EGR/DPF/DEF/SCR delete and tune is possible, are emissions required? Is anyone going to be checking me out with an SD or MT reg? Or even Mohave county AZ reg?

Select shops will not work on them. Velocity will not work on a deleted chassis

 

[FROGMAN524]

Select shops will not work on them. Velocity will not work on a deleted chassis

This thread makes me want a trailer/toy hauler to avoid all the headaches.

 

[rivrrts429]

Stay away from the cat powered coaches that have electronic injection There's a reason why Cat stopped making on road engines . any older diesel coach you'll need 10 grand for tires , batteries, and new air bags and ride height valves . plus tv upgrades but they are the only coaches to buy. any smogged late model coach other than a Prevost is absolute junk, all of the high end manufactures are gone other than Newmar and Newmar was bought out and isn't the same company. American coach is a former shell of itself and the REV group that owns them is completely focused on quarter profits not long term quality coach like they use to build.

Correct on CAT, I was going to mention that, yet not sure high far off of the deep end needed to go LOL. I find tires, batteries, and such are wear items and need to be replaced at some point in the life of the coach so to me not a huge factor. Plus some newer coaches they put the cheapest tires on them that will last for 1-3 years before needing replaced, same with batteries, invertors for solar, and other inferior parts. It is all relative on how you plan to keep the unit, maintain it and such. One thing to consider is insurance and registration. A 2020 coach I looked at was a grand a month for insurance versus $300 for a 2002 unit. Good savings there too. I plan to use mine once a month or so for weekend trips or long week trips. I also have a toy hauler for other trips, helps not being married to one unit for camping. Nice to have options. I am finding the older stuff is build better and less headaches once addressed and setup.

CAT’s issues were more about meeting EPA/CARB requirements. They couldn’t get their on-road motors to clear the government environmental nazi’s requirements.

To the OP - I like this website to find nice pushers & pullers that have some age on them but are well taken care of and garage stored. They’re particular on what coaches they promote.

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[monkeyswrench]

Select shops will not work on them. Velocity will not work on a deleted chassis

Yep, and that's a pretty big deal as I think they are the biggest collection of Cummins dealers out west.

 

[dirtracer]

We have a 05 Dutchstar, got it with 16K miles on it, 100% garage kept. It has a 370 ISL, that has been flawless However pick where you want to throw your money at..
Slide toppers replaced, tires replaced, gaskets on the roof AC units replaced, roof re-coated, batteries replaced, 3 slide motors replaced, 2 slide controllers replaced, sewage valve replaced, Cat Generator has a coolant leak and voltage regulator is bad and they can't find a replacement so possiblylooking at a new Onan generator $$, Air Bags are next to be replaced, and a idler pulley on the motor... not to mention the paint is starting to check...and we have to deal with that
Also old motorhome parts are very hard to come buy, so we always buy spares. Currently looking for headlights as the old ones are not sealed and condensation builds in them...
Other than that it's bad ass! And while the motor is reliable, other things can be challenging...

 

[RCDave2]

What motor in that 2009?

8.9L Cummins. Mine makes 425hp and 1,250tq

 

[Singleton]

This thread makes me want a trailer/toy hauler to avoid all the headaches.

We started with the truck & ToyHauler.
Wife and kid prefers the comfort of the Renegade and flat towing Jeep.
We actually have been using the RV more then the ToyHauler

 

[CANUCK007]

My coach of less than a year is a 2010 allegro bus. Is deleted but ok so far in Canada. On way down in November it dropped exhaust seats outta number one. $35,000 repair. Don’t say it happened cuz it’s deleted as I found out during all this that it had same issue at 27,000 miles at two years old. 425 isl.