Canada tariffs? What about can ams!

[Mr. Jones]

Blaming demand is not popular.

No, it's not. But tariffs making things F-150s more expensive and lumber more expensive so we can stop drugs from Mexico is just punishing the non-users for the users' inability to stop shooting up. Though I have reservations that the tariffs are really aimed at drugs, I don't know that huge amounts of drugs flow from Canada to the US.

 

[thetub]

If it was that cut and dry the foreign companies and governments wouldn't be freaking out over it....

Tariffs are a negotiating tool primarily.

A tool to stop the bleeding secondly....

We are not operating in free trade, the US has over-regulated almost every industry to the point where we have driven the bulk of our actual productive manufacturing overseas. We over enforce rules here, while these low pay markets enforce nothing. We let them flood our markets with goods, they have protective tariffs and trade restrictions that prevent us from selling into theirs.

If it was an even playing field the "free market" argument would actually hold water, it doesn't.

Even the father of free trade, Adam Smith, admitted this to be true in the 1700s, a man who was greatly opposed to tariffs blatantly said that they ARE effective in trade wars to get the offending countries to come back to an even playing field. A fact that is arrogantly ignored by free marketers of today.

The government promised the citizens that as we sold out our manufacturing in the 80s we would transition into "higher skill jobs". This never happened, we traded machinists, mill wrights, mechanics, foundrymen, chemists, and engineers, for Baristas, waitresses, bartenders, cooks, uber drivers, etc.... And then all of a sudden they stop talking about these higher skilled jobs for the average worker, and start about the "Service Sector".... The problem is, the service sector is 100% consumptive, the manufacturing sector is productive. One drains wealth, while the other creates it.

Now we are reliant on foreign adversaries for basic inputs of life, from metals, to textiles, to microchips and pharmaceutical precursors.

This country will not exist in 50 years if we continue down the path we have been on.

right on the money Racey...

and to add its done by design... our beautiful little politicians are lobbied (bribed/paid off) by these foreign countries to do so...

these politicians in return are also given board seats, stock options ,insider trading to said companies... God knows what else...

now thats in our best interest ??? 530 believes so...

 

[riverroyal]

Back on topic....what about canned hams?

 

[mash on it]

Seems like a good deal?

Dan'l

Edit - hmmm, 454

 

[530RL]

Back on topic....what about canned hams?

The US is the second largest exporter of hams, shoulders and cuts in the world. The largest exporter to Mexico.

America should have plenty of canned hams available with the countervailing tariffs enacted by China, Mexico and Canada.

 

[DLC]

Buy a couple bottles of tequila & maple syrup before the end of the year…


Can am buy it now or wait for summer ….

 

[lbhsbz]

The US is the second largest exporter of hams, shoulders and cuts in the world. The largest exporter to Mexico.

America should have plenty of canned hams available with the countervailing tariffs enacted by China, Mexico and Canada.

you need a taller hat

 

[530RL]

you need a taller hat

I’m glad we sold our pig farms. Maybe we can buy them back cheap.

 

[HotRod82]

Didn't everyone freak out about tariffs last time Trump was president and nothing actually happened?

 

[Mr. Jones]

Didn't everyone freak out about tariffs last time Trump was president and nothing actually happened?

It made inflation worse because we couldn't get as much cheap stuff from China. Ever wonder why solar panels for a house are so expensive? Not saying one way is good or bad, but that is the effect.

 

[HNL2LHC]

Back on topic....what about canned hams?

Some on the best canned ham known to man….

SPAM® Brand

Enjoy the best canned meat meals using easy recipes and a variety of delicious, high-quality SPAM® meat. See what SPAM® Brand can do!

www.spam.com

 

[HotRod82]

It made inflation worse because we couldn't get as much cheap stuff from China. Ever wonder why solar panels for a house are so expensive? Not saying one way is good or bad, but that is

It made inflation worse because we couldn't get as much cheap stuff from China. Ever wonder why solar panels for a house are so expensive? Not saying one way is good or bad, but that is the effect.

Yes, I get the overall theory.....however, inflation was not up overall while Trump was president. There were targeted tariffs (solar panels were one of them) that made certain items more expensive but inflation overall was relatively low. That all changed when the Government (trump administration included) went apeshit with the crazy government Covid spending.

I highly doubt Trump is going to do blanket tariffs that negatively affect the economy overall, it's all a negotiating tactic at this point.

 

[Orange Juice]

If everything goes as planned, we will be paying $4-$7 a gal for regular unleaded gas next year, and Tesla will be the new Ford. That's how Im budgeting for next year.

Has anyone driven a Chinese-made vehicle? Are they like a Lexus?

 

[NIKAL]

It made inflation worse because we couldn't get as much cheap stuff from China. Ever wonder why solar panels for a house are so expensive? Not saying one way is good or bad, but that is the effect.

Yes, I get the overall theory.....however, inflation was not up overall while Trump was president. There were targeted tariffs (solar panels were one of them) that made certain items more expensive but inflation overall was relatively low. That all changed when the Government (trump administration included) went apeshit with the crazy government Covid spending.

I highly doubt Trump is going to do blanket tariffs that negatively affect the economy overall, it's all a negotiating tactic at this point.

Exactly! While the costs of some items went up, many in my industry, overall the Country was doing better with the tariffs in place. The Trump tariffs did not cause the inflation, the current administration did that.

I blame the economy going to crap on the China flu and how they poorly handled it, just handing out Billions of dollars to keep people sitting on their couch. And the current administration poor handling of the economy from the start of their term till now.

I as I mentioned in the previous post, Biden kept the Trump Teriffs in place and actually increased them on several items like EV’s “Solar Panels” & batteries. I think he increased them up to 100% tariff. The idea and goal was to force those industries to bring that manufacturing back to the U.S. and quit sharing the technology with China.

I’d like to see Trump, FDA Martin Makary & RFK bring 100% of our pharmaceutical manufacturing back to the U.S. To me that’s got to be one if the biggest national security issues we face. If we get cut off, or if they were to lace the medication it could kill our country in months.

 

[Mr. Jones]

Exactly! While the costs of some items went up, many in my industry, overall the Country was doing better with the tariffs in place. The Trump tariffs did not cause the inflation, the current administration did that.

I blame the economy going to crap on the China flu and how they poorly handled it, just handing out Billions of dollars to keep people sitting on their couch. And the current administration poor handling of the economy from the start of their term till now.

I as I mentioned in the previous post, Biden kept the Trump Teriffs in place and actually increased them on several items like EV’s “Solar Panels” & batteries. I think he increased them up to 100% tariff. The idea and goal was to force those industries to bring that manufacturing back to the U.S. and quit sharing the technology with China.

I’d like to see Trump, FDA Martin Makary & RFK bring 100% of our pharmaceutical manufacturing back to the U.S. To me that’s got to be one if the biggest national security issues we face. If we get cut off, or if they were to lace the medication it could kill our country in months.

The cynic in me would say that the same lobbyisist who influenced Trump influenced Biden. Similarly, the conspiracy theoriest in me would say the same thing of a Tik Tok ban. Who benefits from that (Facebook)?

I have some skepticism that tariffs are being sought for the greater good and not to appease lobbyists. Especially when the stated reason is to stop drugs which tariffs have basically nothing to do with. Drugs can be solved if Americans stopped doing a ton of them. No need for tariffs.

 

[C-Lo]

Haha. Sometimes steps need to be taken to get production in “our” country. Back on track.

Can Am had never been produced in the US

 

[Andy B.]

Trudeau was in Mar-a-Lago yesterday meeting with Trump hmmmm.

 

[JDKRXW]

Trudeau was in Mar-a-Lago yesterday meeting with Trump hmmmm.

Invited on short notice for Friday night dinner meeting at Trumps home resteraunt.
I hope someone on Trudeau's team remembers how that worked in Goodfellas.

 

[Taboma]

Before Trump implements specific Tariffs, is he or his staff researching these targeted items prior, in terms of current USA manufacturing & distribution capability etc., in order to predetermine the potential outcome ? Or just throwing arbitrary shitballs at the wall, simply because he can ?
I find it difficult to believe that the merit of his actions can be judged with any certainty over the span of his entire term, let alone a year or two.

 

[lbhsbz]

Maybe someone from Canada can comment @spectras only

When I ship stuff to Canada, the recipient is always contacted by the shipper (DHL, FedEx, etc) for more money before delivery can occur....I've done some limited research and it seems Canada applies some import taxes to everything. Isn't this in violation of Nafta? If Canada is doing it, there's no reason we shouldn't be doing it too. I currently get stuff in from Canada with no additional taxes or anything applied.

 

[boblins]

Maybe someone from Canada can comment @spectras only

When I ship stuff to Canada, the recipient is always contacted by the shipper (DHL, FedEx, etc) for more money before delivery can occur....I've done some limited research and it seems Canada applies some import taxes to everything. Isn't this in violation of Nafta? If Canada is doing it, there's no reason we shouldn't be doing it too. I currently get stuff in from Canada with no additional taxes or anything applied.

Get charged with sales tax and fees for clearing customs. Import taxes depend on where the item is from originally and what it is. Not all items are covered in the trade agreement in either direction.

 

[spectras only]

Maybe someone from Canada can comment @spectras only

When I ship stuff to Canada, the recipient is always contacted by the shipper (DHL, FedEx, etc) for more money before delivery can occur....I've done some limited research and it seems Canada applies some import taxes to everything. Isn't this in violation of Nafta? If Canada is doing it, there's no reason we shouldn't be doing it too. I currently get stuff in from Canada with no additional taxes or anything applied.

I buy auto parts from the US via Ebay/Amazon. There's a note that import taxes may apply, however, never paid duty other than the GST/PST thats' calculated on the bill along with shpping charges/. On some purchases like vintage parts, some sellers make notes on the bill that the part is classic or vintage part. Only got ripped by UPS once, those guys try to charge brokers fees. Most of my stuff shipped by DHL or Amazon contractors.
Getting vintage parts from England you have to make sure to click exempt of VAT, those limeys automatically add the VAT if you don't pay attention. They do refund though, but a PITA to do the transaction twice.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

And that should certainly be your choice.

But, for example, if someone can’t afford to buy from the snap on truck for their new career as an automotive technician, they should certainly be free to chose a cheaper option so they too can thrive despite just starting out on a limited budget.

And as they thrive, they may just choose as you do. But that should be their choice.

You actually think Snap On tools are still made here?

 

[530RL]

You actually think Snap On tools are still made here?

Most of the hand tools are but not all. Some of them are made in Taiwan, Japan and China.

Snap On understands not everyone can afford $379 bucks for a seven piece wrench set when others are available for $19.95 that will work perfectly fine for most applications.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Let me offer another perspective for consideration.

When I was a small business owner I viewed things through the lens of of what was around me. I've been a W2 for a dozen years at a global corporation and my lens has significantly changed.

Corporations take every opportunity to increase margins. Consumers blame geopolitical circumstances, not the greedy corporations and turn the anger away from the companies producing the goods. They raise prices multiple times a year by small percentages. All while looking for cost savings. Corporations serve shareholders, not customers.

Offshoring labor provides a massive opportunity to increase margins and ultimately the profitability. We all can see the quality of goods is significantly less then 10-20 years ago. That is what we are willing to accept. We want the bling, we deal with the poor performance.

The tariffs will hopefully reset the playing field and American corporations who have taken advantage of cheaper labor markets will have to figure out how to maintain margins while producing items here, and the American consumer will realize buying cheap China crap has consequences. Most of the saw mills and wood processing plants have been closed in Montana, we have to buy lumber from Canada. All those jobs evaporated. The Mine just north of us recently closed (palladium) because the foreign markets tanked the price and flooded the market with government subsidized extraction. More job loss that will pretty much kill that rural town.

This is not just cars and CanAm's

I'm in favor of these tariffs even with it negatively affecting my job. Because I don't like money leaving our country. I want to see it all stay here. I'm selfish that way.

In so far as a new CanAm, what was wrong with the one you had? Is it worth it to buy a new one? Seems CanAm tapped the easiest of value propositions-Status. Resale values should go up on used machines. I hope, I'll sell mine and buy a VW baja bug. Plastic panels suck anyway.

 

[530RL]

Let me offer another perspective for consideration.

When I was a small business owner I viewed things through the lens of of what was around me. I've been a W2 for a dozen years at a global corporation and my lens has significantly changed.

Corporations take every opportunity to increase margins. Consumers blame geopolitical circumstances, not the greedy corporations and turn the anger away from the companies producing the goods. They raise prices multiple times a year by small percentages. All while looking for cost savings. Corporations serve shareholders, not customers.

Offshoring labor provides a massive opportunity to increase margins and ultimately the profitability. We all can see the quality of goods is significantly less then 10-20 years ago. That is what we are willing to accept. We want the bling, we deal with the poor performance.

The tariffs will hopefully reset the playing field and American corporations who have taken advantage of cheaper labor markets will have to figure out how to maintain margins while producing items here, and the American consumer will realize buying cheap China crap has consequences. Most of the saw mills and wood processing plants have been closed in Montana, we have to buy lumber from Canada. All those jobs evaporated. The Mine just north of us recently closed (palladium) because the foreign markets tanked the price and flooded the market with government subsidized extraction. More job loss that will pretty much kill that rural town.

This is not just cars and CanAm's

I'm in favor of these tariffs even with it negatively affecting my job. Because I don't like money leaving our country. I want to see it all stay here. I'm selfish that way.

In so far as a new CanAm, what was wrong with the one you had? Is it worth it to buy a new one? Seems CanAm tapped the easiest of value propositions-Status. Resale values should go up on used machines. I hope, I'll sell mine and buy a VW baja bug. Plastic panels suck anyway.

Fair points. Couple questions.

What do you say to those in America that make goods that are exported. Farmers, Ranchers, aerospace workers, mineral fuels, distillates, machinery, nuclear reactors and the list goes on? What about the over 3 trillion of goods and services Americans export to other countries creating opportunity and wealth for those American businesses? Wouldn’t it be reasonable to expect countervailing tariffs that impact American companies that export goods and services?

Second question, you state that “corporations serve shareholders, not customers”. How does this work? Given the myriad of choices, if a corporation simply increases profits for shareholders, while ignoring the customer, do they not quickly go out of business? Isn’t that why we have such a robust and well exercised bankruptcy system in America, because companies ignore the customer?

I’ll give you an example. I tried to keep manufacturing in Phoenix of POS terminals for a long time. We had our own plant fully depreciated that produced very high quality product. But they were not the least expensive no matter how hard we tried. I didn’t close it until the customers simply would not buy terminals from that plant unless I was willing to sell them at a very large loss. The exact same terminal with the exact same BOM was half the price if manufactured outside of the US. And it was not just due to labor costs, but all costs. And no tariff will remedy that fact. The customer demanded we move manufacturing by their specific behavior of demanding more for every dollar they spent. If we had not moved manufacturing, we would have gone out of business as the customer would have bought from our fellow American companies that moved manufacturing before I did. In hindsight, I failed our customers, our employees and our shareholders as a business leader by keeping manufacturing here longer than I should have.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Fair points. Couple questions.

What do you say to those in America that make goods that are exported. Farmers, Ranchers, aerospace workers, mineral fuels, distillates, machinery, nuclear reactors and the list goes on? What about the over 3 trillion of goods and services Americans export to other countries creating opportunity and wealth for those American businesses? Wouldn’t it be reasonable to expect countervailing tariffs that impact American companies that export goods and services?

Second question, you state that “corporations serve shareholders, not customers”. How does this work? Given the myriad of choices, if a corporation simply increases profits for shareholders, while ignoring the customer, do they not quickly go out of business? Isn’t that why we have such a robust and well exercised bankruptcy system in America, because companies ignore the customer?

I’ll give you an example. I tried to keep manufacturing in Phoenix of POS terminals for a long time. We had our own plant fully depreciated that produced very high quality product. But they were not the least expensive no matter how hard we tried. I didn’t close it until the customers simply would not buy terminals from that plant unless I was willing to sell them at a very large loss. The exact same terminal with the exact same BOM was half the price if manufactured outside of the US. And it was not just due to labor costs, but all costs. And no tariff will remedy that fact. The customer demanded we move manufacturing by their specific behavior of demanding more for every dollar they spent. If we had not moved manufacturing, we would have gone out of business as the customer would have bought from our fellow American companies that moved manufacturing before I did. In hindsight, I failed our customers, our employees and our shareholders as a business leader by keeping manufacturing here longer than I should have.

I make a reasonable attempt to keep my employment a secret for obvious reasons. We have google alerts pounding people on the regular, so please respect my wish to keep it off the web.

These are my personal beliefs, not those of my employer.

Everything has a value, the trick is the alignment of the proposition. If people want what we are selling they will pay for it. If we want what they are selling we will buy it. The rub is that consumers raced to the bottom and like cheap goods. if you really want a foreign car, you'll pay because it is better, not because it is cheaper.

Yes, I assume a trade war and reciprocating tariffs. I'm don't hide my isolationist views. I buy plenty of cheap China shit I don't need. I'm cool if Harbor Freight has a price increase, I'm cool if Hobby Lobby has a price increase.

I think we'll be just fine

September 2024 Trade Gap is $84.4 Billion | U.S. Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA)

The U.S. goods and services trade deficit increased from $70.8 billion in August (revised) to $84.4 billion in September, as exports decreased and imports increased. The goods deficit increased $14.2 billion to $109.0 billion, and the services surplus increased $0.6 billion to $24.6 billion.

www.bea.gov

Farmers/ranchers will benefit when we pull back regulations and allow them to produce in alignment with imports. It's funny how we hold such high expectations for environmental protection in the US, but we ignore those regulations when we allow imports from gross polluter counties. I know our loggers would love to go back to work in Montana.

I work in a global economy in the segments you listed above. The other countries don't like us, they don't like buying our products. I've had fantastic discussions with international coworkers. Even my co workers FN hate us. BUT they all want to be us. That experience has made me an isolationist. If I was king I would expand our borders, starting with Canada. Except Quebec, France can have that.

Second question:

These 11 Companies Control Everything You Buy

Is freedom of choice an illusion?

capitaloneshopping.com

Go ahead, stop buying from them, they don't care. That's why they put poison in the food.
https://lsa.umich.edu/psych/news-ev...y-foods-were-brought-to-you-by-big-tobac.html

Free market capitalism works just fine to your point, that you must serve customers, but the corporations are so big now and have such power, your example does not work. I don't disagree with you, I just see things differently when it comes to the public companies. They care about the stock price because that is how the C-suite gets paid. In many cases the founder has been dead for a century or more. The people running the companies care about money, that is it.

I think your example actually is a favorable example of why Tariffs will work.

Now maybe we should dwell on how disruption of the global marketplace will cause all sorts of chaos. Exporting our dollars to less fortunate countries could potentially make things a bit spicy.

Disclaimer: I am one of the crazy people that hopes Trump turns the entire world upside down and break things. So the more crazy shit he does the better. I also think he is negotiating right now and we won't see such extreme action.

 

[C-Lo]

Didn't everyone freak out about tariffs last time Trump was president and nothing actually happened?

Morning happened? The price of metals for stupid expensive. And how about lumber?

 

[Mr. Jones]

Tariffs to bring back or protect manufacturing are one thing. Those are usually targeted, like against solar panels, steels, or semi conductor parts. But a blanket tariff to stop drugs smuggling is a tough sell--especially against Canada where the only drugs being smuggled are their cheaper prescription drugs made by the same manufacturer in America =P

For Mexico, the tariff I guess is meant to make them less corrupt and play ball? But for a Country and government that seemingly tolerates horrible human violence, I question if they'll care much about tariffs. We're the ones paying the higher prices, not them. It'll be our avocados, watermelon, coffee makers, trucks, and furniture that will cost 25% more.

I have no data to back this part, but I think 25% it's not enough to bring manufacturing back here. We don't work for slave wages, but the citizens of Mexico in Central America apparently do. Americans want minimum wages of $10-$20 per hour, full benefits, workers compensation, disability, etc. I feel like all of that will be more than the 25% tariff so the price of goods will just go up. The government will collect its 25%. And the American consumer will be filling the government's coffers with every avocado or f-150 they buy.

 

[lbhsbz]

Tariffs have a better chance of working if they’re applied at the correct time….

Let’s take brake rotors for example. Back in the ‘late ‘80s or early ‘90s, a company called Aimco started producing rotors in China for the US market and put a significant hurt on the US / North American producers. Around that time, Wagner, Bendix, and the few others went to congress for help. In about 2010 or so…long after most all North American production had been shut down and the tooling scrapped, congress imposed anti-dumping duties on Chinese brake rotors….which further fucked all the companies that wanted it in the first place.

It would be a massive undertaking to tool up a factory today to produce the full line of these parts….and there isn’t a single player in the game that’s in a position to do it.

I buy as much of my product as possible from North American factories, but the fact of the matter is that not only is China a bit less expensive…and in some cases more expensive…but the product I get from China is simply better quality than that produced here. Tariffs are gonna sting a bit, but it’s what it is.

Look at harbor freight….40 years ago very few “normal” people could afford to set up such elaborate home shops as they have today…and had it not been for cheap chinese tools and machinery. One could argue that our quality of life is better due to these things.

I'm not sure what the answer is....but imagine a USA where we make everything we consume....what would the cost of those good be? High. Everyone wants to make $100K/year and that simply isn't sustainable for remedial jobs in manufacturing where one person does the same brainless task over and over and over again. So then factories automate because they need to in order to stay in business....now those jobs are gone again, but we're paying for all the robots. Sort of a win, but not really.

3rd world countries have people that seemingly don't mind doing remedial shit for days or years on end...Someone should take advantage of that....WTF else are those people gonna do? This is how it was in the US not that long ago.

The problem is that the more expensive everything gets, the more expensive everything gets. If everyone could live the good life and afford whatever they wanted and got paid what they feel they're worth....there would be no competition or effort to improve/grow.

I support manufacturing wherever it makes the most sense to do so....I would prefer it to be here, but the arrogance of some of the manufacturers I've had the displeasure of dealing with is simply a turnoff.


I import chinese brake calipers....I would much rather source them from US suppliers. I contacted the foundry who I know possesses the tooling to manufacture a particular part number and asked them how many I need to order for them to blow the dust of the patterns and start making me castings....they just said no. I call China and have parts delivered within 4 weeks.

Spoke with several machine shops about making some bleeder screws....they were all 3-4 months out, and kept giving me the run around bitching about how hard the detail callouts on my print would be....called a factory in China (this was on a monday) and had 10,000 of them sitting on my doorstep that Friday, manufactured perfectly to print. I go to China (or wherever I go) because that particular factory gives me the service I need. I've never asked about price, because I don't care. I have many friends in various industries with similar stories. I wish it was different, but it's not.

 

[was thatguy]

China is shipping 4 legs and square top to Mexico, having a cheap laborer put 4 screws in making it a table, and it’s then it’s able to be imported into USA with no tariffs with a “hencho in Mexico sticker.” Complete crap.

Everyone is taking advantage of the USA, we’ve been too nice for too long.

We have the capabilities to make a cheap toolbox here in America. However, there is no incentive when we can use slave labor with zero regulation overseas and 10x the bottom line.

We need to learn how to be the exterminator so our grandkids don’t have to worry about bugs on the windshield.

Aren’t you in the Union?

He left out the part where he is the one building the cheap boxes in S Korea.

 

[HotRod82]

Morning happened? The price of metals for stupid expensive. And how about lumber?

IMO - not all of that was due to Tariffs. There were some products that went up for sure, but most of that crazy pricing was due to out of control Covid spending. Products (especially food) from here in the US tripled, having not been affected by Tariffs. The price of plywood more than tripled, but the tariff was only increased from 8% to 14.5%. I believe there is a new soft wood tariff which was applied by Biden in August....so Tariffs are not exclusive to Trump.
I think Tariffs are a great bargaining chip, however there is a chance you will get dinged if you are in the wrong industry.

 

[was thatguy]

Trudeau was in Mar-a-Lago yesterday meeting with Trump hmmmm.

 

[Mr. Jones]

I wonder if people would be as supportive of tariffs if we called them a tax and were clear that the money from the tariffs is going to the government.

There is a funny dichotomy at play. A small government and low taxes approach, which I guess would be more libertarian than republican in today's world, would say that the government should not be so powerful it control the prices of imported goods that consumers pay. Put differently, a small government approach would say that the market should decide the price of goods. If American consumers wanted to punish countries for the manufacturing and distribution of illegal drugs, they can create their own boycotts without needing the government to do it for them.

 

[NIKAL]

Fair points. Couple questions.

What do you say to those in America that make goods that are exported. Farmers, Ranchers, aerospace workers, mineral fuels, distillates, machinery, nuclear reactors and the list goes on? What about the over 3 trillion of goods and services Americans export to other countries creating opportunity and wealth for those American businesses? Wouldn’t it be reasonable to expect countervailing tariffs that impact American companies that export goods and services?

Prior to Trumps first term president tariffs. China had always had higher importing tariff taxes on finished goods coming from the U.S. into China. It was China’s way to make sure its Country made everything they needed. Because our dependency on China’s manufacturing of U.S. goods, no prior president was willing in increase China export tariffs into the USA.

I don’t remember the exact percentage, but I read that China’s tariffs on US made cars was something like 25% before Trump imposed his Tariffs. So it made it to expensive to bring US cars into China. The trade war was never fair, and Trumps original Tariffs was to try to equal the playing field.

BTW Biden who opposed the Trump tariffs never removed any of the Trump tariffs and has actually increased tariffs on EV’s Battery’s and Solar panels to 100% tariffs. Funny the media did not bring it up or cause any concern when Biden did it.

 

[530RL]

Prior to Trumps first term president tariffs. China had always had higher importing tariff taxes on finished goods coming from the U.S. into China. It was China’s way to make sure its Country made everything they needed. Because our dependency on China’s manufacturing of U.S. goods, no prior president was willing in increase China export tariffs into the USA.

I don’t remember the exact percentage, but I read that China’s tariffs on US made cars was something like 25% before Trump imposed his Tariffs. So it made it to expensive to bring US cars into China. The trade war was never fair, and Trumps original Tariffs was to try to equal the playing field.

BTW Biden who opposed the Trump tariffs never removed any of the Trump tariffs and has actually increased tariffs on EV’s Battery’s and Solar panels to 100% tariffs. Funny the media did not bring it up or cause any concern when Biden did it.

China imposed uniform tariffs averaging 8% on all its importers in January 2018, before the trade war began. By June 2019, tariffs on American imports had increased to 20.7%, while tariffs on other nations declined to 6.7%.

And as you point out, Biden certainly kept tariffs in place and expanded them. Tariffs have historically been a tool of liberal intervention in market based capitalism and as such no one is surprised when the left uses them.

Regardless of whether one supports additional tariffs or not, the evidence clearly shows when one nation raises its tariffs, countervailing tariffs are implemented by the target country. And the loser is always the consumer as they end up paying them.

 

[Racey]

China imposed uniform tariffs averaging 8% on all its importers in January 2018, before the trade war began. By June 2019, tariffs on American imports had increased to 20.7%, while tariffs on other nations declined to 6.7%.

And as you point out, Biden certainly kept tariffs in place and expanded them. Tariffs have historically been a tool of liberal intervention in market based capitalism and as such no one is surprised when the left uses them.

Regardless of whether one supports additional tariffs or not, the evidence clearly shows when one nation raises its tariffs, countervailing tariffs are implemented by the target country. And the loser is always the consumer as they end up paying them.

Lol "averaging".... yeah when you include all the shit that we don't actually make. China's high tariffs specifically target industries that either they compete with us directly in (protectionists) or ones where they want to get their hands on our technology by forcing foreign companies to open up factories inside their country, and those tariffs are way fucking higher than "mUh EiGhT PuRCenT"

 

[Uncle Dave]

Nobody forced American companies to go to China and give away our manufacturing expertise and tech - we did it out of greed wanting to sell into their market. Wall street and every stockholder with a 401K urged American corps to do it seeking endless growth at any expense.

Putting tariff on products you couldn't alternatively source here was nothing but a tax on Americans.
If Trumps team put the actual work in to do it selectively, while encouraging local industry to manufacture and build here so they could be sourced locally, it would have been a success story, instead it was a blanket punishment for both manufacturers and consumers under the lie of "China paying".

- Then much like the sub prime problem that started under one admin that the follow in admin kept going-

The follow on guy already addicted to the the money didnt do shit to stop the gravy train, but piled on with more of the same strategy.
Lazy, and greedy - he didnt think he'd pay the price for it.
At least the chips act got put in place but that was done in a bipartisan fashion so Biden only get partial credit for that, and at some point maybe a decade or two down the line we might be somewhat self sufficient on parts again, but one factory in Arizona isnt going to do much.

With the price of nearly every consumer good skyrocketing from unavoidable tariffs and printing trillions of course inflation was through the roof which ultimately was a factor in costing Biden the election.

Prices on consumer goods will continue to inflate as long as we keep tariffing parts that cant be sourced locally, which Trump has promised to do.

The gov takes more and more and more, while providing no long term solutions - and people vote for them to do it over and over, because both sides tell them someone else pays for it.

These guy are all laughing at us while hanging out together.

 

[C-Lo]

IMO - not all of that was due to Tariffs. There were some products that went up for sure, but most of that crazy pricing was due to out of control Covid spending. Products (especially food) from here in the US tripled, having not been affected by Tariffs. The price of plywood more than tripled, but the tariff was only increased from 8% to 14.5%. I believe there is a new soft wood tariff which was applied by Biden in August....so Tariffs are not exclusive to Trump.
I think Tariffs are a great bargaining chip, however there is a chance you will get dinged if you are in the wrong industry.

How about we don't fuck our own people with tariffs and we do the smart thing and put sanctions on the countries that won't comply...... Would make to much sense

 

[Mr. Jones]

How about we don't fuck our own people with tariffs and we do the smart thing and put sanctions on the countries that won't comply...... Would make to much sense

I struggle with the 'bargaining chip' part of these proposed taxes. I don't think Canada is sending us a whole lot of illicit drugs. So that justification for the proposed tax is out the window. Makes you wonder, what lobbyists got to Trump and Biden and said "We need these tariffs on Canada...find a justification".

We import something like 4.5million barrels of oil from there. Dodge Challengers, GMC Sierras, and a whole host of cars are made there and brought to the US. So if I were a cynic...I'd start looking at which groups stand to gain. The UAW trying to manufacturing back to the US and oil industry trying to get the ability to drill more here. The latter isn't necessarily bad, either, if it's done right. If we produce More, gas will be cheaper. But if we make more cars here... The union demands for paying benefits will keep their prices high still.

 

[rivrrts429]

Didn’t Lyndon Johnson impose tariffs on Toyota during his term? I think today a Toyota truck is more American made than Ford or GM lol

 

[Mr. Jones]

Didn’t Lyndon Johnson impose tariffs on Toyota during his term? I think today a Toyota truck is more American made than Ford or GM lol

It's crazy how expensive cars are. A regular F-150 4x4 costs 45 to 50,000. Even if tariffs are successful in bringing manufacturing back, that manufacturing will be done by the uaw. The latest uaw deal increase the price of Ford cars by about $900. Tariffs, and that instance, or just going to increase prices more even if they bring manufacturing back.

 

[done]

Perfect example,Box Anchor, what ever they are called in Lake Havasu. Talking to him one day, he said they made the anchors here in the back lot. Then he told me that
now he has everything made and shipped from China. He said cost and shipping is better for him doing it that way.We can't even produce a steel anchor that is mostly sold at that lake. I say greed american companies want to much profit. Do the Anchor people make that much more that way. Until american companies stop saying
buy American......as they import things and put Made in America, shit is made in China.

 

[530RL]

Perfect example,Box Anchor, what ever they are called in Lake Havasu. Talking to him one day, he said they made the anchors here in the back lot. Then he told me that
now he has everything made and shipped from China. He said cost and shipping is better for him doing it that way.We can't even produce a steel anchor that is mostly sold at that lake. I say greed american companies want to much profit. Do the Anchor people make that much more that way. Until american companies stop saying
buy American......as they import things and put Made in America, shit is made in China.

Is it greedy American companies in search of more profit, or price conscious customers in search of more for their dollar who drive this movement to constantly lower costs?

 

[Canuck 1]

Let me offer another perspective for consideration.

When I was a small business owner I viewed things through the lens of of what was around me. I've been a W2 for a dozen years at a global corporation and my lens has significantly changed.

Corporations take every opportunity to increase margins. Consumers blame geopolitical circumstances, not the greedy corporations and turn the anger away from the companies producing the goods. They raise prices multiple times a year by small percentages. All while looking for cost savings. Corporations serve shareholders, not customers.

Offshoring labor provides a massive opportunity to increase margins and ultimately the profitability. We all can see the quality of goods is significantly less then 10-20 years ago. That is what we are willing to accept. We want the bling, we deal with the poor performance.

The tariffs will hopefully reset the playing field and American corporations who have taken advantage of cheaper labor markets will have to figure out how to maintain margins while producing items here, and the American consumer will realize buying cheap China crap has consequences. Most of the saw mills and wood processing plants have been closed in Montana, we have to buy lumber from Canada. All those jobs evaporated. The Mine just north of us recently closed (palladium) because the foreign markets tanked the price and flooded the market with government subsidized extraction. More job loss that will pretty much kill that rural town.

This is not just cars and CanAm's

I'm in favor of these tariffs even with it negatively affecting my job. Because I don't like money leaving our country. I want to see it all stay here. I'm selfish that way.

In so far as a new CanAm, what was wrong with the one you had? Is it worth it to buy a new one? Seems CanAm tapped the easiest of value propositions-Status. Resale values should go up on used machines. I hope, I'll sell mine and buy a VW baja bug. Plastic panels suck anyway.

Many of the mills in BC and Alberta have been closed as well, maybe 20% running from what we had

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Is it greedy American companies in search of more profit, or price conscious customers in search of more for their dollar who drive this movement to constantly lower costs?

Yes

 

[Orange Juice]

Is it greedy American companies in search of more profit, or price conscious customers in search of more for their dollar who drive this movement to constantly lower costs?

You must be referring to two different strategies in a chess game, which both lead to stalemate.

 

[rivrrts429]

Is it greedy American companies in search of more profit, or price conscious customers in search of more for their dollar who drive this movement to constantly lower costs?

That theory would have to apply equally across all verticals to arrive at an accurate hypothesis. I don’t think it works in your broad assumption.

What one household considers cost another sees price.

 

[530RL]

Yes

That is exactly my point.

Individuals are simply doing what individuals do, trying to improve their individual lives regardless of whether they are a consumer or a producer.

This isn’t anyone taking advantage of us that needs government intervention, it is natural free market behavior by each individual participant.

 

[was thatguy]

That is exactly my point.

Individuals are simply doing what individuals do, trying to improve their individual lives regardless of whether they are a consumer or a producer.

This isn’t anyone taking advantage of us that needs government intervention, it is natural free market behavior by each individual participant.