Boating Accident-Posted on June 20th, 2017 at 10:05 AM

[LargeOrangeFont]

I know the exact area where this happened. This is right in front of Coyote Cove (a little north of Black Meadow). Looking at the position of the boat on the lake, it looks as though they were driving on the right side and this is a wide open area.

Complete speculation here, but it seems like the jet ski may have come out of that cove at full speed (white line). Boat makes makes evasive maneuver to avoid hitting and the momentum took the boat to the spot where it ended up. I circled the lighthouse in red for reference.

My question is, how could the jet ski not hear him coming??!!


View attachment 568755

This is where I thought this happened as well.

Without knowing all the details, it is impossible to know. The jet ski rider may have seen and saw the boat but did not anticipate the closing rate of a 80-100 MPH vessel.

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

This is where I thought this happened as well.

Without knowing all the details, it is impossible to know. The jet ski rider may have seen and saw the boat but did not anticipate the closing rate of a 80-100 MPH vessel.

I know......just like to speculate sometimes!

 

[Bobby V]

I know the exact area where this happened. This is right in front of Coyote Cove (a little north of Black Meadow). Looking at the position of the boat on the lake, it looks as though they were driving on the right side and this is a wide open area.

Complete speculation here, but it seems like the jet ski may have come out of that cove at full speed (white line). Boat makes makes evasive maneuver to avoid hitting and the momentum took the boat to the spot where it ended up. I circled the lighthouse in red for reference.

My question is, how could the jet ski not hear him coming??!!


View attachment 568755

Police report said Havasu Palms. Not Black Meadow. Look at the lighthouse in the picture I posted. The Grays Harbor Lighthouse is on the CA side by the Palms. The Barnegot lighthouse is on the AZ side by Black Meadows. Not sure what side of the lake the pic was taken.

 

[Andy01]

I know the exact area where this happened. This is right in front of Coyote Cove (a little north of Black Meadow). Looking at the position of the boat on the lake, it looks as though they were driving on the right side and this is a wide open area.

Complete speculation here, but it seems like the jet ski may have come out of that cove at full speed (white line). Boat makes makes evasive maneuver to avoid hitting and the momentum took the boat to the spot where it ended up. I circled the lighthouse in red for reference.

My question is, how could the jet ski not hear him coming??!!


View attachment 568755

Your in the wrong part of the lake Joe, it was north of that area. Closer to Steamboat as they reported bringing folks from there.

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

Police report said Havasu Palms. Not Black Meadow. Look at the lighthouse in the picture I posted. The Grays Harbor Lighthouse is on the CA side by the Palms. The Barnegot lighthouse is on the AZ side by Black Meadows. Not sure what side of the lake the pic was taken.

Your in the wrong part of the lake Joe, it was north of that area. Closer to Steamboat as they reported bringing folks from there.

Gotcha. I read the Speed On The Water Article and it said Black Meadow and the pic Walt posted could have been either location. If it is Havasu Palms, IMO that is the most dangerous part of the lake to be running at speed. I know that 80 - 100 is cruising for this boat but still, that area is sketchy.

 

[Andy01]

Gotcha. I read the Speed On The Water Article and it said Black Meadow and the pic Walt posted could have been either location. If it is Havasu Palms, IMO that is the most dangerous part of the lake to be running at speed. I know that 80 - 100 is cruising for this boat but still, that area is sketchy.

Yes Plams, yes not a great area to be running at speed. Likely not the case here. I bet they were just cruising and something jumped out in front of them. These boats don't work great till higher speeds. They can be sloppy and hard to turn at slower speeds, CAN BE. I've done that turn in a 40 at 125mph and ripped the corner. Not the boats fault, likely a third element. If memory serves me correct is this not the same turn the Silver M35 went over behind the 41?

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

Yes Plams, yes not a great area to be running at speed. Likely not the case here. I bet they were just cruising and something jumped out in front of them. These boats don't work great till higher speeds. They can be sloppy and hard to turn at slower speeds, CAN BE. I've done that turn in a 40 at 125mph and ripped the corner. Not the boats fault, likely a third element. If memory serves me correct is this not the same turn the Silver M35 went over behind the 41?

No that was just about a couple football fields north. Same area in my mind.

 

[mbrown2]

The boat to the starboard has the right of way I thought and I don't think speed is a determining factor in that case. That being said the vessel overtaking the slower vessel is responsible if they are traveling the same direction. We don't know the speed of the Skater. It could have happened at 50mph where those types of boats are more prone to roll and not spin out.

My understanding in a crossing situation where two vessels will intersect one crossing from west to east and one from north to south, the boat that has the crossing boat on its starboard gives way. If this skater is heading north to south and a jet ski comes out of the cove on the Cali side going west to east that would be the Skater's Starboard and the Skater would give way to the crossing jet ski....Again this assumes the boat is maintaining safe speed where their maneuver can be obvious and made in good time to the other boat.

That said, I continue to take evasive maneuvers weekly at less than fast speeds cause jet ski's are operated by folks that don't understand the maritime rules of the water...its unfortunate and not looking to legislate but something has to give as lakes get more crowded....this was a Tuesday ...not a crowded lake day so it is even more surprising evasive actions had to be taken.

Hope everyone turns out ok.

 

[hallett21]

Wishing everyone a speedy recovery. [emoji1303]

Curious. If the cops come up on a scene and see go pros attached to the boat are they allowed to take them into evidence? Or are they still your property to turn over if so choose?

 

[Outdrive1]

My understanding in a crossing situation where two vessels will intersect one crossing from west to east and one from north to south, the boat that has the crossing boat on its starboard gives way. If this skater is heading north to south and a jet ski comes out of the cove on the Cali side going west to east that would be the Skater's Starboard and the Skater would give way to the crossing jet ski....Again this assumes the boat is maintaining safe speed where their maneuver can be obvious and made in good time to the other boat.

That said, I continue to take evasive maneuvers weekly at less than fast speeds cause jet ski's are operated by folks that don't understand the maritime rules of the water...its unfortunate and not looking to legislate but something has to give as lakes get more crowded....this was a Tuesday ...not a crowded lake day so it is even more surprising evasive actions had to be taken.

Hope everyone turns out ok.

That's what I was getting at.


All that being said. Right of way or not. If the two paths are going to intersect you're instinctively going to make an evasive maneuver. No one is going to run another vessel over and say well I had the right of way.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Good thing, no fatalities. Havasu Palms could clearly be seen in the background of one of the early photos. As Boat Cop stated last week, boats/PWCs shooting out of a cove do not have the right of way over anybody. They must safely merge into the flow of any lake traffic.

Years ago we had a boat totaled by a 10 and 8 yr old on a PWC going at a high rate of speed. Investigating LEO asked me, "Now, what was the course and speed of the PWC?" I told him, "That's like asking me what was the course and speed of a fly". LEO smiled and said he understood. Fortunately there were no injuries. Actually the boys knew they were out of control and had jumped off prior to hitting us.

 

[Hallett Dave]

Too many unanswered questions and lack of data for me to form an opinion of the incident.
I am just glad that there were no fatalities.
HD

 

[ductape1000]

In the last discussion about right of way, I understood it that someone entering into traffic does not instantly gain right of way. Someone coming off the shore or out of a cove has a responsibility to enter into the main flow safely.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

That's what I was getting at.


All that being said. Right if way or not. If the two paths are going to intersect you're instinctively going to make an evasive maneuver. No one is going to run another vessel over and say well I had the right of way.

Exactly what I was think when I read all these comments about "stand on" and "give way" vessels.

 

[rivermobster]

Dressed for the crash. Thank god everyone will be ok. :thumbsup

 

[JD D05]

Wishing everyone a speedy recovery. [emoji1303]

Curious. If the cops come up on a scene and see go pros attached to the boat are they allowed to take them into evidence? Or are they still your property to turn over if so choose?

They take them, don't ask....

 

[skater40]

Does anybody know if the boat has been recovered or did the cops sit there all day and watch it sink?

 

[Kailuaboy89]

Sad stuff to hear, but glad there were no death's in this accident. hope everyone recovers quickly.

 

[Raffit78]

Hope for a speedy recovery to all involved.

 

[stephenkatsea]

If a collision appears likely/imminent, each operator is obligated to take such appropriate action to avoid the collision. Stand on and Give way goes out the door at that point.

 

[Tank]

Just spoke to Bobbit, sounds like Larry is out of surgery and in recovery but still out. Sounds like the wound was pretty bad. Hope everyone gets well quick with out long term damages.

 

[CLdrinker]

If a collision appears likely/imminent, each operator is obligated to take such appropriate action to avoid the collision. Stand on and Give way goes out the door at that point.

True but my opinion is if someone cuts me off it's not going to cost my passengers their lives. Panick turns didn't happen when we got cut off. We would pull throttles back and turn as much as we could.

I know it sounds shity but I'm not pitching out my passengers because of a dumb jet skier. I'd rather be in jail than have killed my family and friends. Sad but true, sorry if this hurts feelings.

 

[BoatCop]

Looks like there might be a GoPro or recording device on the deck?
View attachment 568751

Looks more to me like the combination bow light.

I thought the bigger vessel always had right away cause it's harder to stop or maneuver

Take a class. You're dead wrong.

The only time size matters is when a ship is constrained by its draft and can only maneuver in a specific channel.

Does anybody know if the boat has been recovered or did the cops sit there all day and watch it sink?

The SO would have recovered and impounded the boat to examine it for mechanical malfunction.

 

[ductape1000]

True but my opinion is if someone cuts me off it's not going to cost my passengers their lives. Panick turns didn't happen when we got cut off. We would pull throttles back and turn as much as we could.

I know it sounds shity but I'm not pitching out my passengers because of a dumb jet skier. I'd rather be in jail than have killed my family and friends. Sad but true, sorry if this hurts feelings.

This.

At some point, the safety of my passengers and myself takes precedence.

 

[Bradsrvrtoy.]

If a collision appears likely/imminent, each operator is obligated to take such appropriate action to avoid the collision. Stand on and Give way goes out the door at that point.

This is correct. It is the responsibility of both watercraft operators to avoid a collision and at the point of a possible collision the stand on and give way vessel rules go out the window. That said I am not putting my family/passengers at risk over a crazy jetskier if it is unavoidable to prevent a collision..the skier will lose. I am glad to hear that everyone will survive this...

 

[BoatCop]

True but my opinion is if someone cuts me off it's not going to cost my passengers their lives. Panick turns didn't happen when we got cut off. We would pull throttles back and turn as much as we could.

I know it sounds shity but I'm not pitching out my passengers because of a dumb jet skier. I'd rather be in jail than have killed my family and friends. Sad but true, sorry if this hurts feelings.

How about just slowing down when any other traffic is anywhere in the area. The throttle has other settings than WFO and dead stop.

If you expect that every boat/PWC within 200 yards is going to turn in front of you, you won't be surprised when they do. If you have to make a panic stop or panic turn, you're going too fast for "prevailing circumstances and conditions. "

Rule 6.

Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she can take proper and effective action to avoid collision and be stopped within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions.

And except for a couple of speculations and "someone said" rumors, there isn't any indication (at this point) that another vessel, PWC or otherwise, was involved.

 

[CLdrinker]

How about just slowing down when any other traffic is anywhere in the area. The throttle has other settings than WFO and dead stop.

If you expect that every boat/PWC within 200 yards is going to turn in front of you, you won't be surprised when they do. If you have to make a panic stop or panic turn, you're going too fast for "prevailing circumstances and conditions. "

Rule 6.

Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she can take proper and effective action to avoid collision and be stopped within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions.

And except for a couple of speculations and "someone said" rumors, there isn't any indication (at this point) that another vessel, PWC or otherwise, was involved.

How about you before you pipe off you ask for a specific example of the situation that this came into play?

 

[milkmoney]

And we're off , again.

Jus glad everyone survived and here's to a speedy recovery and back boating soon [emoji106] [emoji4] [emoji202]

 

[grumpy88]

And we're off , again.

Jus glad everyone survived and here's to a speedy recovery and back boating soon [emoji106] [emoji4] [emoji202]

I couldn't find the phrase but you did just fine !

 

[stephenkatsea]

True but my opinion is if someone cuts me off it's not going to cost my passengers their lives. Panick turns didn't happen when we got cut off. We would pull throttles back and turn as much as we could.

I know it sounds shity but I'm not pitching out my passengers because of a dumb jet skier. I'd rather be in jail than have killed my family and friends. Sad but true, sorry if this hurts feelings.

WTF - Safety of those on your boat is always primary. The rule does not say make a violent turn and pitch yourself and your family into the water. The point of this rule is that at that point "each" operator shall take appropriate action to avoid a collision. Also known as "Common Sense".

 

[DaBank]

Larry is a good friend and it looks like he will be fine but it was still a serious accident and now he has to recover as do his passengers.As I was told they where testing the boat. Larry has more seat time in high performance boats than most everyone here. I been with him for years in boats hitting the mid 100's and have full confidence in his skills regarding mine and my family's life's. This is just a reminder that things can happen at anytime and you need to be prepared.......this story could have went a different direction with a unskilled Captain and running over a jet skier. Please everyone be safe on the water and aware of your surroundings.

 

[Outdrive1]

True but my opinion is if someone cuts me off it's not going to cost my passengers their lives. Panick turns didn't happen when we got cut off. We would pull throttles back and turn as much as we could.

I know it sounds shity but I'm not pitching out my passengers because of a dumb jet skier. I'd rather be in jail than have killed my family and friends. Sad but true, sorry if this hurts feelings.

Good to know that if someone cuts you off instead of trying everything possible to avoid a collision you're going to run them over and hope for the best. That's a great idea. [emoji1418]please post when you're on the lake so the rest of us can stay out of your way.

 

[Outdrive1]

How about you before you pipe off you ask for a specific example of the situation that this came into play?

Wow. Pipe off. A guy that spent his life in the Coast Guard and as police officer on the water. I'm pretty sure I'd rather read Allan's posts with his advice/knowledge and learn from him then having you tell him not to pipe off.

 

[milkmoney]

Wow. Pipe off. A guy that spent his life in the Coast Guard and as police officer on the water. I'm pretty sure I'd rather read Allan's posts with his advice/knowledge and learn from him then having you tell him not to pipe off.

Tru dat [emoji106] [emoji202]

 

[DaBank]

I was not there and up to now no one else here was either. There is always a perfect storm leading to a accident. Things could have went way better or way worst. I am sure no Captain wants to get ejected or to hit and/or kill someone.


As to accidents in general People have very little reaction time in real life at real time and people have all the time in the world to come up with what they would or wouldn't do after the fact. I will say that usually there are many things leading up to accidents that would be contributing factors for the end result.......most negative and some positive but at the end of the day obviously a accident occurred and that is where the armchair quarterbacks come in and fight about what was done wrong or right or what they would do..........guess what it was a accident shit went wrong!! In life you need to be aware of dangers everyday around you and move with caution if not stay home in a bubble but then you would have to worry if a plane crashes into your house.

 

[JB in so cal]

Pipe off? Lol

BC probably has more time in a friggen coastal patrol/rescue boat than you have in your entire boating life...

Pipe off... Classic

 

[2Driver]

This thread went to shit in under 6 pages.

 

[ultra26shadow]

Glad no fatalities and hope to a speedy recovery. It's a beautiful boat.

 

[done]

My guess would be the jet skier zipped out from a cove and the big boat had almost no time to react. he probably did the best he could to avoid running over
him.

 

[lbhsbz]

I'm likely out of place here, but I don't care.

I've been boating for a long time...I've been pitched out of a boat (my fault, even though it wasn't, but no other crafts were there or involved so that's the way I called it). A few of these incidents lately with the claim that "jet ski cut me off" or "avoiding a collision with a jet ski that came out of nowhere".

Here's the bottom line...don't put yourself in a situation where another craft can come out of nowhere. Its not hard. I have a shitty 85mph 19' tunnel boat that I run on WOT every chance I get on the river...as soon as another boat comes into sight, I lift and make sure I'm at a manageable speed where not much can go wrong (usually under 40mph). Why? It's not because I doubt my skills, it's because I don't know what the other craft will do, or if they saw me.

If I'm running by cove entrances or situations where other craft can "appear" out of nowhere, I either go to the other side of the river or slow down. Operators who claim to be experienced have no excuse to do otherwise, unless they make the decision to roll the dice.

It is very easy to slip into this decision in any boat that gives you a tad bit of a rush, and while I can't speak from experience, I imagine a 30+ foot anything with the word "Skater" on the side would be even easier.

All of these situations are avoidable by the operator...one way or another. If something unexpected happens that causes hell, the operator should have had the forsight to avoid a situation where something like that could have happened.

Anything other than a parts failure is on the operator...period.

We all like to blame things on big wakes...whatever, but the bottom line is, those are conditions...boat for the conditions. Much like in road racing...we get a yellow flag for the first lap when a hazard exists, then a yellow flag with a stripe as the hazard becomes a characteristic of the track.

Best wishes and prayers to all involved.

There's a considerably better chance of not getting "surprised" by a jetski whilst running a 36ft boat on the ocean, where 36ft boats belong outside of a controlled course.

 

[rrrr]

.

I'm very happy to hear the injured will recover. :thumbsup

After that shit storm a couple of weeks ago, the last thing needed is another tragedy.

 

[BoatCop]

This thread went to shit in under 6 pages.

It doesn't have to be that way, if people just sit back, read the posts and take away what they can from them. People were hurt, and for that I'm sorry. I spent my entire adult life trying to STOP people from getting hurt on the water. But at the end of the day they will be going home, and THAT is a good thing.

Most of us ride or have ridden motorcycles. Would we look at this the same way, if we pulled out of our driveway or parking lot, only to be nearly (or) run over by someone in a Ferrari doing 150 MPH on a PUBLIC STREET. There's a time and place for everything. Closed courses for testing, early morning when no one else is out yet, mid-January, etc. A summer afternoon on Lake Havasu probably isn't the best time for a speed run, especially near resort areas.

Anyway, when all is said and done, I'm gonna launch my 30 MPH pontoon and the wife, grand kids and I are going to have as much (if not more) fun as someone going 140 MPH, white knuckled down the lake.

If you wanna talk "extreme" boating, come talk to me when you've done this.

 

[RCDave]

A racer car driver once said, try hard to not put yourself in a spot to "get collected" ( no judgement passed on this treads incident). Life is dangerous and all risk can't be eliminated.

 

[bripar77]

I agree with Boatcop and lbhsbz, don't know exactly what occurred here but you have to slow down for the conditions. With a Skater it is easy to slow down and speed back up
once you get some clear areas. Had my 36' Skater in that location plenty of times and on a crowded weekend and it was all defensive driving not speed runs. Good job the driver had everybody wearing Vest
and had his lanyard on.

 

[JD D05]

I'm likely out of place here, but I don't care.

I've been boating for a long time...I've been pitched out of a boat (my fault, even though it wasn't, but no other crafts were there or involved so that's the way I called it). A few of these incidents lately with the claim that "jet ski cut me off" or "avoiding a collision with a jet ski that came out of nowhere".

Here's the bottom line...don't put yourself in a situation where another craft can come out of nowhere. Its not hard. I have a shitty 85mph 19' tunnel boat that I run on WOT every chance I get on the river...as soon as another boat comes into sight, I lift and make sure I'm at a manageable speed where not much can go wrong (usually under 40mph). Why? It's not because I doubt my skills, it's because I don't know what the other craft will do, or if they saw me.

If I'm running by cove entrances or situations where other craft can "appear" out of nowhere, I either go to the other side of the river or slow down. Operators who claim to be experienced have no excuse to do otherwise, unless they make the decision to roll the dice.

It is very easy to slip into this decision in any boat that gives you a tad bit of a rush, and while I can't speak from experience, I imagine a 30+ foot anything with the word "Skater" on the side would be even easier.

All of these situations are avoidable by the operator...one way or another. If something unexpected happens that causes hell, the operator should have had the forsight to avoid a situation where something like that could have happened.

Anything other than a parts failure is on the operator...period.

We all like to blame things on big wakes...whatever, but the bottom line is, those are conditions...boat for the conditions. Much like in road racing...we get a yellow flag for the first lap when a hazard exists, then a yellow flag with a stripe as the hazard becomes a characteristic of the track.

Best wishes and prayers to all involved.

There's a considerably better chance of not getting "surprised" by a jetski whilst running a 36ft boat on the ocean, where 36ft boats belong outside of a controlled course.

I agree with a lot of what you are saying but there is a some hypocrisy in your message. Running 85 in a shitty 19 foot boat is contradicting a good amount of your message in my opinion. There are all kinds of conditions that you can't adjust for in time at those speeds. I hit those speeds probably 5 times a year in my boat and I usually do it on lake powell with zero boats and zero canyon openings in an area I know well that I have already driven over that day or weekend. I still view it as a risk personally, and I am not willing to say I am prepared for everything I am responsible for. Not possible at 85.

 

[rrrr]

Does anybody know if the boat has been recovered or did the cops sit there all day and watch it sink?

That's a great attitude to have. I imagine the LEO were more concerned with any injured on the scene, and besides that, it shouldn't be the priority of law enforcement to keep a boat that was involved in an accident from sinking when injured are being dealt with.

I'm thankful the guys are alive and apparently going to recover. Who gives a **** about the boat?

 

[77charger]

How about just slowing down when any other traffic is anywhere in the area. The throttle has other settings than WFO and dead stop.

If you expect that every boat/PWC within 200 yards is going to turn in front of you, you won't be surprised when they do. If you have to make a panic stop or panic turn, you're going too fast for "prevailing circumstances and conditions. "

Rule 6.

Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she can take proper and effective action to avoid collision and be stopped within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions.

And except for a couple of speculations and "someone said" rumors, there isn't any indication (at this point) that another vessel, PWC or otherwise, was involved.

Great advice especially when you mention dont be surprised when every boat in front of you will will turn,I get nervous around pwcs as if i see them darting around i will just fall back and be more alert since most of my boating is upriver and yes it has happened but i have been far enough and slow enough to react.

Like i have said in other post if you adjust speed and drive for the conditions you most likely wont have a problem.

 

[rickym20]

Glad everyone will be ok, I don't know much about this area or admittedly might be considered a rookie compared to most. This guy who was operating this boat per other people's responses know him as a experienced boater. With that in mind and him boating on a Tuesday before 10am I would think this was a complete accident. I just can't picture it being busy at this time which would lead to the decision to open it up.

Would be good to hear his story once everything settles to learn something from it.

 

[lbhsbz]

That's a great attitude to have. I imagine the LEO were more concerned with any injured on the scene, and besides that, it shouldn't be the priority of law enforcement to keep a boat that was involved in an accident from sinking when injured are being dealt with.

I'm thankful the guys are alive and apparently going to recover. Who gives a **** about the boat?

X3.... since when has it been LEO's job to recover vessels unless they contain evidence? Want your vessel recovered?..pay for Boat US or sea tow, or have a good group of friends and a proper tow rope.

My tax dollars should not go to recovering a 36' skater, unless it'll get parked in my driveway with keys on the seat in a day or two....

 

[traquer]

Calm the F down people. I am just glad these guys are ok. No matter how experienced or careful we are we've ALL had "oh shit I'm never doing that again" moments. Let's all try to just learn from this ok