Big brother is watching....from somewhere near the I40 bridge in Topock

[mjc]

Was there any of these tickets happening before the attempted closer or are we just now hearing about something that has been going on for years?

 

[Patyacht]

Yes, we are. The routes being taken by most individuals trespass across FWS land where OHVs are prohibited, as well as likely on the BNSF ROW and State Trust land. However, I have also gone out there with both Chip Venezio of Topock 66 and Autumn Boyle Robinson (?) of the Topock 66 Foundation to show them our trespass areas and help them find a legal route around us. Ms. Robinson used the information I provided and contacted other land owners and came up with a route around us which they promoted during a Poker Run they held up there. If people follow that route and are street legal for the portion they must drive on road (and of course helmets for kids and the other standard AZ laws), then there is no problem with them going to Topock 66. Generally speaking the route enters at Needles Mountain Road, goes under the railroad, to east and the north, and then pops out on Polaris Road south of town. Ms. Robinson would be the best point of contact for waypoints etc.

What Changed? For years we followed the RR tracks with no issues but all of a sudden about 2013 or 2014 U.S. Fish and Wildlife started patrolling and issuing warnings at 1st then tickets. So what changed or better yet was it new leadership that decided to start closing down the off-road access to Topock66. 2nd was there ever a public announcement of your plan to close the off-road access. 3rd was there ever any discussion of the possible negative effect on a local business. Thanks.

 

[alexJ]

Wow, sorry I missed a day. Where to begin?

I honestly don't even want to acknowledge t&y but using a giant font to call me out, labeling me a douche for life in ALL CAPS, and having to use an animated emoticon to flip me off is hard to ignore, especially considering he is so very uneducated on the situation.

I guess a easy way to prove that, since he seems to be very concerned about people in the no wake zone, would be to post all the other pictures he took of the other non Law Enforcement boats comitting what he believes to be a violation. Surely he must have some... every time I've been through Thompson bay I've seen boats and jet ski's creating wake.

If that is truly the case, I'll apologize.

[My opinion] stands with me until proven otherwise.

Not that it is any of his business, or that I would ever be interested in an apology from someone like him, but I did take photos and a video of other boats that day, none of which were LEOs... in the closed ride spot. sRice isn't getting any of them- can't see the hull #'s anyway. I took the shots because I want to show in my next letter that last year's USFWS unjustified closures only targets law abiding citizens, rather than the 1% of troublemakers. By closing the area, experienced boating families are being forced to ski on the main lake, while sh!theads continue to break the rules daily. I've already PM'd you through the forum and will send these photos to your email if you like, in raw format so that you can see the time stamp is on the same day as the shot of the USFWS boat.

As for that other photo, (including the colored one sRice specifically asked for) I'm sorry I didn't have time to adjust the angle and lighting, frame the foreground nicer, get my dad's head or the bimini out of the way... It is because I wasn't stalking them but instead floating with my family, with my little sister in the water, when my mom asked, "aren't those the guys that shut down the ride spot?" Considering our history (as well as their love of new camera tickets) when I saw the wake inside the buoy line i dug my phone out of the glove box, turned it on, found the camera, and snapped a pic, barely getting them while they were still in the zone- next time for your sake I will be sure to switch to recording video mode.

We good? Anything else you need T&Y?

 

[SRice]

What Changed? For years we followed the RR tracks with no issues but all of a sudden about 20wq13 or 2014 U.S. Fish and Wildlife started patrolling and issuing warnings at 1st then tickets. So what changed or better yet was it new leadership that decided to start closing down the off-road access to Topock66. 2nd was there ever a public announcement of your plan to close the off-road access. 3rd was there ever any discussion of the possible negative effect on a local business. Thanks.

Paty, sorry I pecked out a longer answer and then apparently deleted it. Short version is that both 50 CFR 27.31 prohibiting off road driving on all national wildlife refuges and state law prohibiting trespass on the railroad easement have both been laws for a long time. People were occasionally caught trespassing back there before Topock 66 opened and were cited, but after 66 reopened the trespass went through the roof and we started spending a lot more time up there and realized what was really occurring. Arizona State Trust regs on OHV access are confusing enough I'll just recommend that you visit their website (and buy an access permit from them) and BLM just completed a mandatory inventory of trails being used by OHV's which included an assessment of which they would designate as trails and which were not legal (generally you must be on a designated trail on BLM and cannot simply ride anywhere, but again I'd refer you to Amanda Deeds of BLM Havasu for the best info on that agency). Richard Spencer is a good contact for Arizona State Trust and Lance Cencelewski is the criminal investigator for railroad trespass if you would like further info. Call me at 928-667-4144 in next couple days if I can help further (after that I'll be away for a bit).

 

[SRice]

What Changed? For years we followed the RR tracks with no issues but all of a sudden about 2013 or 2014 U.S. Fish and Wildlife started patrolling and issuing warnings at 1st then tickets. So what changed or better yet was it new leadership that decided to start closing down the off-road access to Topock66. 2nd was there ever a public announcement of your plan to close the off-road access. 3rd was there ever any discussion of the possible negative effect on a local business. Thanks.

Here is a link to the Arizona law prohibiting trespass on the railroad right of way. http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/01502.htm

 

[t&y]

Wow, sorry I missed a day. Where to begin?

I honestly don't even want to acknowledge t&y but using a giant font to call me out, labeling me a douche for life in ALL CAPS, and having to use an animated emoticon to flip me off is hard to ignore, especially considering he is so very uneducated on the situation.



Not that it is any of his business, or that I would ever be interested in an apology from someone like him, but I did take photos and a video of other boats that day, none of which were LEOs... in the closed ride spot. sRice isn't getting any of them- can't see the hull #'s anyway. I took the shots because I want to show in my next letter that last year's USFWS unjustified closures only targets law abiding citizens, rather than the 1% of troublemakers. By closing the area, experienced boating families are being forced to ski on the main lake, while sh!theads continue to break the rules daily. I've already PM'd you through the forum and will send these photos to your email if you like, in raw format so that you can see the time stamp is on the same day as the shot of the USFWS boat.

As for that other photo, (including the colored one sRice specifically asked for) I'm sorry I didn't have time to adjust the angle and lighting, frame the foreground nicer, get my dad's head or the bimini out of the way... It is because I wasn't stalking them but instead floating with my family, with my little sister in the water, when my mom asked, "aren't those the guys that shut down the ride spot?" Considering our history (as well as their love of new camera tickets) when I saw the wake inside the buoy line i dug my phone out of the glove box, turned it on, found the camera, and snapped a pic, barely getting them while they were still in the zone- next time for your sake I will be sure to switch to recording video mode.

We good? Anything else you need T&Y?

Sorry, been busy with cop shit all day long. What are we talking about again... that's right, the closure of your ride spot and the photo's you are taking of boats who in your opinion are breaking the rules. No need to email me your photo's, I wouldn't share my email with you anyways. Nothing personal, I just don't do that. If you claim you have photo's I'm good with it. Like I told Dave, my initial response may have been a bit harsh.

Like promised, regardless of whether you want it or not, I APOLOGIZE if my initial assesment of you was wrong:thumbsup

As far as anything else, nope, keep doing what you are doing. I've got a tad bit bigger issues to deal with in real life than a wake boarding or water skiing spot or a Fish and Game boat creating wake in Thompson bay.

 

[milkmoney]

Sorry, been busy with cop shit all day long. What are we talking about again... that's right, the closure of your ride spot and the photo's you are taking of boats who in your opinion are breaking the rules. No need to email me your photo's, I wouldn't share my email with you anyways. Nothing personal, I just don't do that. If you claim you have photo's I'm good with it. Like I told Dave, my initial response may have been a bit harsh.

Like promised, regardless of whether you want it or not, I APOLOGIZE if my initial assesment of you was wrong:thumbsup

As far as anything else, nope, keep doing what you are doing. I've got a tad bit bigger issues to deal with in real life than a wake boarding or water skiing spot or a Fish and Game boat creating wake in Thompson bay.

You actually apologized. Take one beer off the tab. I know ur email , and those school kids are way more important than any wake board boat. [emoji12][emoji202]

 

[alexJ]

As far as anything else, nope, keep doing what you are doing. I've got a tad bit bigger issues to deal with in real life than a wake boarding or water skiing spot or a Fish and Game boat creating wake in Thompson bay.

Thank you for your apology, I'm sure you'll think im an ass for correcting you but it isn't fish and game or Thompson bay... The agency everyone is upset with is US Fish and Wildlife, and that photo was taken on the CA side.
I'm not a cop, but I have a real job too and as you said tad bigger issues as well. I am a dentist at a non profit children's clinic, so I also have better things to do than go back and forth with you on this board- and I'd much rather focus on the issue at hand; trying to keep USFWS in check and protecting the community.
For those of you who don't know, here's why...
(The secret is out- I'm Alex)

PS- RD, i took a photoshop class in high school, I use a combination of that and the basic paint program.

 

[Hullbilly]

Sorry, been busy with cop shit all day long. What are we talking about again... that's right, the closure of your ride spot and the photo's you are taking of boats who in your opinion are breaking the rules. No need to email me your photo's, I wouldn't share my email with you anyways. Nothing personal, I just don't do that. If you claim you have photo's I'm good with it. Like I told Dave, my initial response may have been a bit harsh.

Like promised, regardless of whether you want it or not, I APOLOGIZE if my initial assesment of you was wrong:thumbsup

As far as anything else, nope, keep doing what you are doing. I've got a tad bit bigger issues to deal with in real life than a wake boarding or water skiing spot or a Fish and Game boat creating wake in Thompson bay.

Well well well, you won't give out your email huh.....how about you give out your work number. I know I've seen it before.

 

[Hullbilly]

Just a general question, as I have not lived in havasu for almost two years now. Have any "town hall" style meetings been held between the boating community/residents and the involved LE agencies? Maybe this could be helpful...maybe Im just out of the loop

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Just a general question, as I have not lived in havasu for almost two years now. Have any "town hall" style meetings been held between the boating community/residents and the involved LE agencies? Maybe this could be helpful...maybe Im just out of the loop

That would require the federal gov't to actually have somewhat of a dialog with the people. We know that's not gonna happen. That's why Dave and others have urged everybody to ease up on SRice as he is most likely our best connection to the powers that be.

 

[Hullbilly]

That would require the federal gov't to actually have somewhat of a dialog with the people. We know that's not gonna happen. That's why Dave and others have urged everybody to ease up on SRice as he is most likely our best connection to the powers that be.

Well SRice, looks like maybe this is something you should spearhead.....Sucessful LE thrives on positive community relations.

Just a thought....

 

[alexJ]

Just a general question, as I have not lived in havasu for almost two years now. Have any "town hall" style meetings been held between the boating community/residents and the involved LE agencies? Maybe this could be helpful...maybe Im just out of the loop

If you fast forward to about 3:50 in that video embedded above, you can see a shot of one of the three town hall meetings from this spring. I've never been to a city council meeting with even a tenth of the turnout, unfortunately all of these citizen's concerns seemed to fall on deaf ears. While new proposed closures were prevented, they conveniently completely ignored our protests of last year's closures.

 

[alexJ]

As for sRice, you should know I was never interested in writing a ticket - mostly because that wouldn't do anyone any good; I'm looking for solutions to make the lake better and mostly to reverse last year's unjust closures. Pissing off an agent (or really the entire agency), getting someone in trouble, and putting an even bigger target on my boat doesn't benefit anyone- least of all myself. Trying to intimidate me by some law or section or whatever it was that you sited (that i opted not to google/read) was laughable. I DO think that your response proves our point perfectly though. The point of that photo was to allow you the perspective to be on the other side of these tickets that started this thread.

I hope that you now understand that you gave yourself/officers a page of defense with many excuses for your agent's actions- a liberty we do not have. You were willing to pay a fine, while not admitting guilt, but not willing to put yourself up against the $5000, jail time choice we possibly face and are threatened with to prove our innocence. We have the option of signing it and admitting guilt OR driving from San Diego to Flagstaff, with the threat of $5000, misdemeanors, jail time, etc. In your eyes this seems fair; I think most logical people would argue otherwise.

For the record, there is no doubt in my mind (and those present) that he ran a wake in a no wake zone, but in my mind this incident is over- use it as an opportunity for education rather than punishment/citations. Tell the new guy to slow down on busy weekends if he wants to set a good example for the other rookies on the lake OR don't (I really don't care)- one of my closest friends is a cop, he deals with an incredible amount of crap in a difficult stressful position, and I fully support it as a perk of the job. I just want to reiterate from our perspective that education is better than punishment in most of these situations.

Dave, I won't argue with you other than to say if FWS behaved illegally then somebody should sue FWS and get the buoys taken down. When two sides have different opinions on a point of law, they go to court where one side wins and one side loses (or they both lose and the lawyers make a lot of money).

I do stand behind Dave's statements about it being illegal and I think you would agree that the agency did not even follow its own protocal. I'd like to think common sense and objective data would be enough to replace the buoys where they belong- but USFWS doesn't believe in those things. You suggest I should just get a lawyer... as if it is so easy. If only if I had a ridiculous amount of $ it would already be done. Justifying your agencies actions by the prohibitive cost of hiring a federal lawyer to fight the federal government in Flagstaff is a joke, and you know it.

You stated you wanted to pay a fine to a charity, I don't think that is necessary for you to do at all... but if you are looking to make a donation, I'm sure the #savetheridespot lawyer fund would glady take your money.

 

[t&y]

Well SRice, looks like maybe this is something you should spearhead.....Sucessful LE thrives on positive community relations.

Just a thought....

Appears to me like he is trying:thumbsup

 

[RiverDave]

SRice how many citations did you write? Is there a reason for the pitch forks? Just wondering I don't see. Any other agencies or officers getting attacked quite like you. Just trying to figure out why I was told about this thread and it is such a big deal. Reminds me of when I worked in downtown LA and there was one officer known to hide and be a little shady he got called out everywhere. I don't think that's you with all respect but sounds similar. You could almost have your own reality show. "Steve The Glass Bottle Hunter"

Well if you look around he's the only one from USFWS that stepped up and posted on here.

There are others posting in this thread that work for other government agencies as well.

Was there any of these tickets happening before the attempted closer or are we just now hearing about something that has been going on for years?

That's a good question.. I had never heard of any of this up until recently.


On that note something to make clear, as it was made to me. SRice isn't responsible for policy. He doesn't determine what happens or doesn't happen in there.. He just enforces what has been put in place.

I talked to him briefly yesterday on the phone and he brought up the point that the USFWS didn't put the no wake zone near Topock, but they are charged with enforcing it because it is in the refuge.

I believe, after talking to him, there is an answer to this and it's called "minimum wake zones" that are in other parts of the country. So we as boaters should talk to the people that put the NWZ there and see if that area can be changed to that instead. There's some hurdles with it, but it's possible.

 

[Ziggy]

Appears to me like he is trying:thumbsup

Mostly he has told us how wrong we all are...sue the agency.
Awesome advice.[emoji23] Sound like the typical Federal MO.
.
We do something illegal but believe we're in the right we get tossed in jail.
They do something illegal but believe they're in the right, we get the middle finger and are told to sue them.
.
Last time I saw something similar with the feds the common folk got desperate and took over a unoccupied Ranger outpost..........and we all know how turned out[emoji17] [emoji22]

 

[Hullbilly]

Appears to me like he is trying:thumbsup

That he is, but my thought was more along the lines of "live in person" as much is lost and left subject to interpretations when in text.

 

[spectra3279]

Appears to me like he is trying:thumbsup

Seems more like he is here to tell us how wrong we are. And trying to justify the illegal closure.

 

[Mr. C]

Mostly he has told us how wrong we all are...sue the agency.
Awesome advice.[emoji23] Sound like the typical Federal MO.
.
We do something illegal but believe we're in the right we get tossed in jail.
They do something illegal but believe they're in the right, we get the middle finger and are told to sue them.

Pretty much. He lost me when he tried to justify some actions with the newbie / inexperienced line and then the well you know how many people i saw doing it comment. those type of comments wouldn't fly for any of us. And he also knows that if there was someone around to write the ones he saw a ticket they would of gotten them.

 

[rivermobster]

Mr. Rice...

You want to know why you're getting disrespected all the time??

Let me give you a bit of background...

A LOT of us on this board are good friends in real life. We talk on a regular basis, and have some laughs about what goes on around here! We are not just random words on a screen. Most of us are family types. Wives, kids, sports, good jobs, productive members of society. We get on here to talk shit, have a good time, and enjoy the place we all love, the river! Make no mistake, we have talked about you.

I've asked you here on the board, and it a PM, what IS your agenda here???

Crickets. No answer. That bothers me, and others, deeply.

You want respect around here, then earn it mother fucker!

I've offered you a boat ride so you can see who your dealing with. RD has offered you the same. As far as I know, you haven't taken up either of us. I'm sure lots of peeps on this board would happily do the same. We aren't criminals bro, just good guys trying to have a good time, and blow off some steam on the weekends. (well not me, i'm a mid week off season kinna guy). I don't do well with idiots out on the water.

So here are a few friendly tips from me to you, so you can post on here without getting hammered...

First, get to know us face to face. The fact that you won't do that, makes it look like your hiding. You're not hiding anything, are you??

Second, don't defend bad behavior. No excuses. Nuf said.

Third, go after the fucking bad guys!!! If your guys see a family out on a boat, doing something stupid, say hi and give em a warning. You see some flatbiller on a jet ski, doing donuts in a no wake zone? Throw the fucking book at him!!!!!!! Make an example of him so he tells all his friends. Educate him properly, and do the rest of us a huge favor.

And last but more importantly...

Why exactly are you on these forums???

Balls in your court. Peace out.

 

[Patyacht]

Paty, sorry I pecked out a longer answer and then apparently deleted it. Short version is that both 50 CFR 27.31 prohibiting off road driving on all national wildlife refuges and state law prohibiting trespass on the railroad easement have both been laws for a long time. People were occasionally caught trespassing back there before Topock 66 opened and were cited, but after 66 reopened the trespass went through the roof and we started spending a lot more time up there and realized what was really occurring. Arizona State Trust regs on OHV access are confusing enough I'll just recommend that you visit their website (and buy an access permit from them) and BLM just completed a mandatory inventory of trails being used by OHV's which included an assessment of which they would designate as trails and which were not legal (generally you must be on a designated trail on BLM and cannot simply ride anywhere, but again I'd refer you to Amanda Deeds of BLM Havasu for the best info on that agency). Richard Spencer is a good contact for Arizona State Trust and Lance Cencelewski is the criminal investigator for railroad trespass if you would like further info. Call me at 928-667-4144 in next couple days if I can help further (after that I'll be away for a bit).

Thanks. I have been going to Topock for years both by SxS and boat. It appears to me that the step up in restrictions and enforcement both on the water and land has occurred all about the same time. Having worked in a gov't job for many years I know the doers did not initiate it. It comes from the top. So was there new leadership put in place in the past 3-4 years? What triggered the change? Topock66 was open for a long time until Chet bulldozed it but now it's even better. Has there been other complaints from other business or the RR or is this just your agency doing this?

 

[spectra3279]

I think they are trying to build a case to close it all down

 

[SRice]

Well SRice, looks like maybe this is something you should spearhead.....Sucessful LE thrives on positive community relations.

Just a thought....

FWS did hold three public meetings at the Avi Casino and in Lake Havasu City- probably well in excess of 1000 people attended and my Refuge Manager and the Regional Management were there to hear public comment. Unfortunately in my opinion, we were all directed to listen to the public comment but the established rules did not allow FWS employees to respond. I know Dave and Alex and probably many other members of this forum attended; I was off stage but also present for all three.

 

[SRice]

Well if you look around he's the only one from USFWS that stepped up and posted on here.

There are others posting in this thread that work for other government agencies as well.



That's a good question.. I had never heard of any of this up until recently.


On that note something to make clear, as it was made to me. SRice isn't responsible for policy. He doesn't determine what happens or doesn't happen in there.. He just enforces what has been put in place.

I talked to him briefly yesterday on the phone and he brought up the point that the USFWS didn't put the no wake zone near Topock, but they are charged with enforcing it because it is in the refuge.

I believe, after talking to him, there is an answer to this and it's called "minimum wake zones" that are in other parts of the country. So we as boaters should talk to the people that put the NWZ there and see if that area can be changed to that instead. There's some hurdles with it, but it's possible.

Thanks, Dave. I enjoyed talking with you and look forward to meeting up in person some time. Maybe Boat Cop would join us for a beer too?

 

[Singleton]

FWS did hold three public meetings at the Avi Casino and in Lake Havasu City- probably well in excess of 1000 people attended and my Refuge Manager and the Regional Management were there to hear public comment. Unfortunately in my opinion, we were all directed to listen to the public comment but the established rules did not allow FWS employees to respond. I know Dave and Alex and probably many other members of this forum attended; I was off stage but also present for all three.

Let's be honest, those meetings only took place after a few senators/representatives got wind of what was going on and pushed the issue.
IMO your leadership has an agenda and you are not sharing what that is.
I also think you would get more credit if you started reaching out in person and having honest conversations about why the change (increased enforcement on land, water and via cameras). Maybe you host an open house and explain why and what concerns your agency currently has.

 

[milkmoney]

Mr. Rice...

You want to know why you're getting disrespected all the time??

Let me give you a bit of background...

A LOT of us on this board are good friends in real life. We talk on a regular basis, and have some laughs about what goes on around here! We are not just random words on a screen. Most of us are family types. Wives, kids, sports, good jobs, productive members of society. We get on here to talk shit, have a good time, and enjoy the place we all love, the river! Make no mistake, we have talked about you.

I've asked you here on the board, and it a PM, what IS your agenda here???

Crickets. No answer. That bothers me, and others, deeply.

You want respect around here, then earn it mother fucker!

I've offered you a boat ride so you can see who your dealing with. RD has offered you the same. As far as I know, you haven't taken up either of us. I'm sure lots of peeps on this board would happily do the same. We aren't criminals bro, just good guys trying to have a good time, and blow off some steam on the weekends. (well not me, i'm a mid week off season kinna guy). I don't do well with idiots out on the water.

So here are a few friendly tips from me to you, so you can post on here without getting hammered...

First, get to know us face to face. The fact that you won't do that, makes it look like your hiding. You're not hiding anything, are you??

Second, don't defend bad behavior. No excuses. Nuf said.

Third, go after the fucking bad guys!!! If your guys see a family out on a boat, doing something stupid, say hi and give em a warning. You see some flatbiller on a jet ski, doing donuts in a no wake zone? Throw the fucking book at him!!!!!!! Make an example of him so he tells all his friends. Educate him properly, and do the rest of us a huge favor.

And last but more importantly...

Why exactly are you on these forums???

Balls in your court. Peace out.

And that right there is spot on and Joe is damn glad to met you. [emoji202]


Fuckoffjoe [emoji41]

 

[SRice]

Mr. Rice...

You want to know why you're getting disrespected all the time??

Let me give you a bit of background...

A LOT of us on this board are good friends in real life. We talk on a regular basis, and have some laughs about what goes on around here! We are not just random words on a screen. Most of us are family types. Wives, kids, sports, good jobs, productive members of society. We get on here to talk shit, have a good time, and enjoy the place we all love, the river! Make no mistake, we have talked about you.

I've asked you here on the board, and it a PM, what IS your agenda here???

Crickets. No answer. That bothers me, and others, deeply.

You want respect around here, then earn it mother fucker!

I've offered you a boat ride so you can see who your dealing with. RD has offered you the same. As far as I know, you haven't taken up either of us. I'm sure lots of peeps on this board would happily do the same. We aren't criminals bro, just good guys trying to have a good time, and blow off some steam on the weekends. (well not me, i'm a mid week off season kinna guy). I don't do well with idiots out on the water.

So here are a few friendly tips from me to you, so you can post on here without getting hammered...

First, get to know us face to face. The fact that you won't do that, makes it look like your hiding. You're not hiding anything, are you??

Second, don't defend bad behavior. No excuses. Nuf said.

Third, go after the fucking bad guys!!! If your guys see a family out on a boat, doing something stupid, say hi and give em a warning. You see some flatbiller on a jet ski, doing donuts in a no wake zone? Throw the fucking book at him!!!!!!! Make an example of him so he tells all his friends. Educate him properly, and do the rest of us a huge favor.

And last but more importantly...

Why exactly are you on these forums???

Balls in your court. Peace out.

RiverMobster,

When you phrase it as an "agenda" it is already implying something nefarious and I'm generally not going to respond when people call me a "motherfucker" or imply that I'm friggin' Dr. Evil. I will try to explain my "agenda" as I have in bits and pieces elsewhere.

You all recommend an educational approach and I believe in that as well- hence the fact that warnings on these issues have outnumbered tickets by about 20 to 1 so far this summer. I am on here trying to further that educational goal. I have answered MANY questions both on the forum and in PM. I have volunteered other information and I have tried to jump start a conversation by offering an occasional personal opinion. Why? Because I genuinely believe that the lake has become overcrowded with too many intoxicated and untrained boaters going faster than reasonable under the circumstances and not paying sufficient heed to their environment. That last bit is one of those personal opinions, but it is what motivates me to get on this forum night after night and get yelled at. A little girl died up in Laughlin not too long ago. You all expressed your sympathy, but I think it needs to go beyond that and look for ways to prevent it from happening here. That's about the extent of it.

To your second point, Dave asked me last night about getting together off the clock sometime and I accepted. But to mirror your point, if you want to hang out and have a beer with me cursing me probably isn't a good starting point.

 

[UltraLucky]

RiverMobster,

When you phrase it as an "agenda" it is already implying something nefarious and I'm generally not going to respond when people call me a "motherfucker" or imply that I'm friggin' Dr. Evil. I will try to explain my "agenda" as I have in bits and pieces elsewhere.

You all recommend an educational approach and I believe in that as well- hence the fact that warnings on these issues have outnumbered tickets by about 20 to 1 so far this summer. I am on here trying to further that educational goal. I have answered MANY questions both on the forum and in PM. I have volunteered other information and I have tried to jump start a conversation by offering an occasional personal opinion. Why? Because I genuinely believe that the lake has become overcrowded with too many intoxicated and untrained boaters going faster than reasonable under the circumstances and not paying sufficient heed to their environment. That last bit is one of those personal opinions, but it is what motivates me to get on this forum night after night and get yelled at. A little girl died up in Laughlin not too long ago. You all expressed your sympathy, but I think it needs to go beyond that and look for ways to prevent it from happening here. That's about the extent of it.

To your second point, Dave asked me last night about getting together off the clock sometime and I accepted. But to mirror your point, if you want to hang out and have a beer with me cursing me probably isn't a good starting point.

" "

 

[Havdesert]

Mr. Rice...

You want to know why you're getting disrespected all the time??

Let me give you a bit of background...

A LOT of us on this board are good friends in real life. We talk on a regular basis, and have some laughs about what goes on around here! We are not just random words on a screen. Most of us are family types. Wives, kids, sports, good jobs, productive members of society. We get on here to talk shit, have a good time, and enjoy the place we all love, the river! Make no mistake, we have talked about you.

I've asked you here on the board, and it a PM, what IS your agenda here???

Crickets. No answer. That bothers me, and others, deeply.

You want respect around here, then earn it mother fucker!

I've offered you a boat ride so you can see who your dealing with. RD has offered you the same. As far as I know, you haven't taken up either of us. I'm sure lots of peeps on this board would happily do the same. We aren't criminals bro, just good guys trying to have a good time, and blow off some steam on the weekends. (well not me, i'm a mid week off season kinna guy). I don't do well with idiots out on the water.

So here are a few friendly tips from me to you, so you can post on here without getting hammered...

First, get to know us face to face. The fact that you won't do that, makes it look like your hiding. You're not hiding anything, are you??

Second, don't defend bad behavior. No excuses. Nuf said.

Third, go after the fucking bad guys!!! If your guys see a family out on a boat, doing something stupid, say hi and give em a warning. You see some flatbiller on a jet ski, doing donuts in a no wake zone? Throw the fucking book at him!!!!!!! Make an example of him so he tells all his friends. Educate him properly, and do the rest of us a huge favor.

And last but more importantly...

Why exactly are you on these forums???

Balls in your court. Peace out.

Well said exactly! He's also getting dis respected because of the petty tickets he has given in the off road community. Yes it's his job but he also has an opportunity to educate not just write tickets and on top of it hide in the bushes then send people tickets . From the sounds of it SRice has wrote a lot of tickets for very petty stuff. Bottles, passing rough a small section of USFW property, going 6 mph in a no wake zone the list goes on and on. I've heard plenty on the off road forums the boating forums just put it over the top for me. I am all for safety and if you have some jack ass doing 20 mph in a no wake zone and knows what he is doing or kids with out life jackets etc. they deserve tickets . most of us have common sense. From the sounds of it SRice is a little ticket happy. Obviously there is probable cause for all the dis respect.

 

[Ziggy]

Officer Rice
Untrained boaters put everyone at risk, from the point they hook the trailer to their car until they get home, no question. Rental agency customers being the biggest offenders. Ignorance they claim.
The blanket approach your agency is taking stomps on everyones rights, but mostly on those of us that enjoy the lake regularly. We are not the ones you should be focused on, we know the rules and regulations. It's the untrained ones, or those that have barely two hours hands on experience(pardon that jab).
If the goal is prevention it never has made sense to me to punish after the fact instead of preventing it beforehand. Make contact with the obvious newbie before they kill or mame someone, that's what I'd consider preventative.
.
Also, I'm aware of the girl that died near Laughlin, passenger on a seadoo if I'm correct. You keep referencing this incident and hoping to prevent such horrible deaths....as do we all. But somehow I feel as though you are condeming boaters for this accident and not PWC operators.
This heavy handed enforcement will only cause us experienced boaters to get stronger in numbers, defend, fight and stop all this nonsense that keeps interfering with our freedoms and lifestyle.

 

[Shortdeck]

RiverMobster,

When you phrase it as an "agenda" it is already implying something nefarious and I'm generally not going to respond when people call me a "motherfucker" or imply that I'm friggin' Dr. Evil. I will try to explain my "agenda" as I have in bits and pieces elsewhere.

You all recommend an educational approach and I believe in that as well- hence the fact that warnings on these issues have outnumbered tickets by about 20 to 1 so far this summer. I am on here trying to further that educational goal. I have answered MANY questions both on the forum and in PM. I have volunteered other information and I have tried to jump start a conversation by offering an occasional personal opinion. Why? Because I genuinely believe that the lake has become overcrowded with too many intoxicated and untrained boaters going faster than reasonable under the circumstances and not paying sufficient heed to their environment. That last bit is one of those personal opinions, but it is what motivates me to get on this forum night after night and get yelled at. A little girl died up in Laughlin not too long ago. You all expressed your sympathy, but I think it needs to go beyond that and look for ways to prevent it from happening here. That's about the extent of it.

To your second point, Dave asked me last night about getting together off the clock sometime and I accepted. But to mirror your point, if you want to hang out and have a beer with me cursing me probably isn't a good starting point.

How long have you been boating in Lake Havasu? It's always seemed overcrowded, and that's because it's a great place to vacation. So much so, I decided to move here. How do you expect to train and educate boaters by issuing tickets from a camera?
And Laughlin is far more crowded than Havasu when comparing bodies of water.

 

[rivermobster]

RiverMobster,

When you phrase it as an "agenda" it is already implying something nefarious and I'm generally not going to respond when people call me a "motherfucker" or imply that I'm friggin' Dr. Evil. I will try to explain my "agenda" as I have in bits and pieces elsewhere.

You all recommend an educational approach and I believe in that as well- hence the fact that warnings on these issues have outnumbered tickets by about 20 to 1 so far this summer. I am on here trying to further that educational goal. I have answered MANY questions both on the forum and in PM. I have volunteered other information and I have tried to jump start a conversation by offering an occasional personal opinion. Why? Because I genuinely believe that the lake has become overcrowded with too many intoxicated and untrained boaters going faster than reasonable under the circumstances and not paying sufficient heed to their environment. That last bit is one of those personal opinions, but it is what motivates me to get on this forum night after night and get yelled at. A little girl died up in Laughlin not too long ago. You all expressed your sympathy, but I think it needs to go beyond that and look for ways to prevent it from happening here. That's about the extent of it.

To your second point, Dave asked me last night about getting together off the clock sometime and I accepted. But to mirror your point, if you want to hang out and have a beer with me cursing me probably isn't a good starting point.

Well done. Thanks for directly posting an answer. Much easier to decipher than trying to read every post you make, and try to put those pieces together. :thumbsup Aint nobody got time for that!

Here's another hint for ya...

When I say "hey mother fucker" and put a "" after it, it means we (all of us on here) are joking around with you. I don't joke around with people I don't like. Does that explain it well enough for you?

Now about your statement I bolded...

How long have you been boating here??? What are you basing that statement on??

Alan (boatcop), RD and myself will all be happy to tell you, the lake is safer than ever. There are stats to prove that as well. I've been boating on Havasu, since 74 or so. I can pretty much walk my talk about knowing a tiny bit about Lake Havasu and Parker.

I'm pretty sure you mentioned that you're new to Lake Havasu. Not only that, you just hired a non boater to police that lake?? Are you serious dude?? How about if I come down to your office (having zero LE experience), and try and tell YOU how to do YOUR job?!?!??!?! Do you think that would fly? Would you listen to me? Yeah, I'm think'n probably not. Hire some people with massive amounts of boating experience. Hard to believe there aren't lots of people that would actually love that job.

Let's take the issue with the little girl...

Did you read some of those posters remarks, that are regulars in that area? If you did, you will see that particular area is a regular problem, due to the PWC rental places there. So, let's take that information and see what we can do with it; how about you police that area EVERY weekend, so the rental people will tell their customers "be careful, the cops are Always around here. Don't do anything wrong!" Easy huh? Think that would help? You can learn a LOT just hanging around, and reading what's posted on here.

God gave you two ears and one mouth. Know why? Cause you're supposed to use em in that proportion...

Stick around Steve. You might learn a few things if you do.

 

[Bigbore500r]

Here's a puppy and some boobs......
Can't we all just get along [emoji3]

 

[77charger]

Mr. Rice...

Third, go after the fucking bad guys!!! If your guys see a family out on a boat, doing something stupid, say hi and give em a warning. You see some flatbiller on a jet ski, doing donuts in a no wake zone? Throw the fucking book at him!!!!!!! Make an example of him so he tells all his friends. Educate him properly, and do the rest of us a huge favor.
.

IMO doing something stupid on a boat is the same as doing something stupid on a pwc why should one get a warning and other the book?IF it's a stupid move then get the cite. If it's a minor deal the. A warning no matter the propulsion. Don't care if it's a hi dollar cat or a beat up sea doo if they cut in front of a boat recklessly that's a stupid mistake which could kill

Now a minor deal like sit on Hatch but feet not touching floor could be a warning or a pwc who might not have slowed to no wake before the no wake but did within 10 ft of entering.

I have been cut off by pacs and almost hit by a big cat that probably had another 75-80 more mph on me passing.

 

[Bradsrvrtoy.]

Well done. Thanks for directly posting an answer. Much easier to decipher than trying to read every post you make, and try to put those pieces together. :thumbsup Aint nobody got time for that!

Here's another hint for ya...

When I say "hey mother fucker" and put a "" after it, it means we (all of us on here) are joking around with you. I don't joke around with people I don't like. Does that explain it well enough for you?

Now about your statement I bolded...

How long have you been boating here??? What are you basing that statement on??

Alan (boatcop), RD and myself will all be happy to tell you, the lake is safer than ever. There are stats to prove that as well. I've been boating on Havasu, since 74 or so. I can pretty much walk my talk about knowing a tiny bit about Lake Havasu and Parker.

I'm pretty sure you mentioned that you're new to Lake Havasu. Not only that, you just hired a non boater to police that lake?? Are you serious dude?? How about if I come down to your office (having zero LE experience), and try and tell YOU how to do YOUR job?!?!??!?! Do you think that would fly? Would you listen to me? Yeah, I'm think'n probably not. Hire some people with massive amounts of boating experience. Hard to believe there aren't lots of people that would actually love that job.



With that officers limited time in a boat Id say he posed a serious risk to anyones fiberglass he wanted to stop and talk to and also posed a risk to families should he have panic'd and hit the throttle too close to other boats...boating is an aquired skill and takes proper training and time yo be good at it...a two day crash course and a couple hours on the water aint cutting it and that bothers me...

Lets ask the question to Srice...do you currently own a recreational power boat or recreationally boat on lake havasu? Most of us on this forum do.

 

[Ziggy]

IMO doing something stupid on a boat is the same as doing something stupid on a pwc why should one get a warning and other the book?IF it's a stupid move then get the cite. If it's a minor deal the. A warning no matter the propulsion. Don't care if it's a hi dollar cat or a beat up sea doo if they cut in front of a boat recklessly that's a stupid mistake which could kill

Now a minor deal like sit on Hatch but feet not touching floor could be a warning or a pwc who might not have slowed to no wake before the no wake but did within 10 ft of entering.

I have been cut off by pacs and almost hit by a big cat that probably had another 75-80 more mph on me passing.

Replace pwc'er in his statement with jet boter.
I don't believe he meant to single out pwc.....although it's typically what we see, lol.[emoji6]

 

[Bobby V]

Lets ask the question to Srice...do you currently own a recreational power boat or recreationally boat on lake havasu? Most of us on this forum do.

He answered that question about 5 pages ago.

 

[Ziggy]

Well done. Thanks for directly posting an answer. Much easier to decipher than trying to read every post you make, and try to put those pieces together. :thumbsup Aint nobody got time for that!

Here's another hint for ya...

When I say "hey mother fucker" and put a "" after it, it means we (all of us on here) are joking around with you. I don't joke around with people I don't like. Does that explain it well enough for you?

Now about your statement I bolded...

How long have you been boating here??? What are you basing that statement on??

Alan (boatcop), RD and myself will all be happy to tell you, the lake is safer than ever. There are stats to prove that as well. I've been boating on Havasu, since 74 or so. I can pretty much walk my talk about knowing a tiny bit about Lake Havasu and Parker.

I'm pretty sure you mentioned that you're new to Lake Havasu. Not only that, you just hired a non boater to police that lake?? Are you serious dude?? How about if I come down to your office (having zero LE experience), and try and tell YOU how to do YOUR job?!?!??!?! Do you think that would fly? Would you listen to me? Yeah, I'm think'n probably not. Hire some people with massive amounts of boating experience. Hard to believe there aren't lots of people that would actually love that job.



With that officers limited time in a boat Id say he posed a serious risk to anyones fiberglass he wanted to stop and talk to and also posed a risk to families should he have panic'd and hit the throttle too close to other boats...boating is an aquired skill and takes proper training and time yo be good at it...a two day crash course and a couple hours on the water aint cutting it and that bothers me...

Lets ask the question to Srice...do you currently own a recreational power boat or recreationally boat on lake havasu? Most of us on this forum do.

I believe he said he has a 10hp boat to fish in with his son.

 

[Bradsrvrtoy.]

He answered that question about 5 pages ago.

He did? about personally recreating on the water not just patrolling?

 

[Bobby V]

He did? about personally recreating on the water not just patrolling?

Yes. You can look up his past posts if you like.

 

[throttle]

looks like I have some reading to catch up on....

 

[Bradsrvrtoy.]

Yes. You can look up his past posts if you like.

Well shit im not going back thirty pages...my point is I highly doupt he does or ever has.

 

[SBMech]

Well shit im not going back thirty pages...my point is I highly doupt he does or ever has.

How will you know what is really going on if you don't catch up :headscratch:

 

[Bradsrvrtoy.]

How will you know what is really going on if you don't catch up :headscratch:

Well damn i thought i read it all

 

[Bobby V]

Well shit im not going back thirty pages...my point is I highly doupt he does or ever has.

Did you see Ziggys post. ? He has a small motor boat. Kinda like Boat Cop and RiverMobster. :skull

If I remember right he said he doesn't boat on weekends and mostly during the off season.

 

[SBMech]

Well shit im not going back thirty pages...my point is I highly doupt he does or ever has.

You were right anyhow

 

[Bobby V]

Well shit im not going back thirty pages...my point is I highly doupt he does or ever has.

Wow it took a whole 60 seconds to find his quote. Post 115. Ooops. Let me post the link.

http://www.riverdavesplace.com/foru...now-and-what-you-can-do&p=2393612#post2393612

 

[Havasteve]

Do we really need more supervision on the water??

Lets see. We have how many agencies patrolling Havasu waters?

SanBernardino County Sheriff Boat
Mohave County Sheriff Boat
Havasu PD Boat
Blm Boat
Arizona Game and fish Boat
Coastguard Patrool Boat
And now Us Fish and Wildlife Service Cameras?

The stats show our waterways are safer than ever.

I have a hard time believing this is about safety. And if it's about giant anchor ripping wakes, well that should be easy to fix.

 

[Bradsrvrtoy.]

Wow it took a whole 60 seconds to find his quote. Post 115. Ooops. Let me post the link.

http://www.riverdavesplace.com/foru...now-and-what-you-can-do&p=2393612#post2393612

Thanks...although a 9.9 pull start 12 ft aluminum row boat is a recreational powerboat I highly doupt he sympathizes with us performance or wakeboard boats would you agree? I dont think he is in tune with the boating "lifestyle" most of us enjoy...and my point being is I dont think many making boating decisions for the public or enforcing are!