Big brother is watching....from somewhere near the I40 bridge in Topock

[Bobby V]

Do we really need more supervision on the water??

Lets see. We have how many agencies patrolling Havasu waters?

SanBernardino County Sheriff Boat
Mohave County Sheriff Boat
Havasu PD Boat
Blm Boat
Arizona Game and fish Boat
And now Us Fish and Wildlife Service Cameras?

The stats show our waterways are safer than ever.

I have a hard time believing this is about safety. And if it's about giant anchor ripping wakes, well that should be easy to fix.

Coast Guard ?

 

[SRice]

As for sRice, you should know I was never interested in writing a ticket - mostly because that wouldn't do anyone any good; I'm looking for solutions to make the lake better and mostly to reverse last year's unjust closures. Pissing off an agent (or really the entire agency), getting someone in trouble, and putting an even bigger target on my boat doesn't benefit anyone- least of all myself. Trying to intimidate me by some law or section or whatever it was that you sited (that i opted not to google/read) was laughable. I DO think that your response proves our point perfectly though. The point of that photo was to allow you the perspective to be on the other side of these tickets that started this thread.

I hope that you now understand that you gave yourself/officers a page of defense with many excuses for your agent's actions- a liberty we do not have. You were willing to pay a fine, while not admitting guilt, but not willing to put yourself up against the $5000, jail time choice we possibly face and are threatened with to prove our innocence. We have the option of signing it and admitting guilt OR driving from San Diego to Flagstaff, with the threat of $5000, misdemeanors, jail time, etc. In your eyes this seems fair; I think most logical people would argue otherwise.

For the record, there is no doubt in my mind (and those present) that he ran a wake in a no wake zone, but in my mind this incident is over- use it as an opportunity for education rather than punishment/citations. Tell the new guy to slow down on busy weekends if he wants to set a good example for the other rookies on the lake OR don't (I really don't care)- one of my closest friends is a cop, he deals with an incredible amount of crap in a difficult stressful position, and I fully support it as a perk of the job. I just want to reiterate from our perspective that education is better than punishment in most of these situations.




I do stand behind Dave's statements about it being illegal and I think you would agree that the agency did not even follow its own protocal. I'd like to think common sense and objective data would be enough to replace the buoys where they belong- but USFWS doesn't believe in those things. You suggest I should just get a lawyer... as if it is so easy. If only if I had a ridiculous amount of $ it would already be done. Justifying your agencies actions by the prohibitive cost of hiring a federal lawyer to fight the federal government in Flagstaff is a joke, and you know it.

You stated you wanted to pay a fine to a charity, I don't think that is necessary for you to do at all... but if you are looking to make a donation, I'm sure the #savetheridespot lawyer fund would glady take your money.

I already made that donation to Big Brothers as promised.

To further clarify the citation process (which again represents about 1/20 of the number of warnings given based on this photo enforcement to date)- any time I send out a citation my name and phone number appear at the bottom. I have had individuals call and say, for example, "I sold that boat last year and here is the transfer of title." Or "Yeah, those are my numbers but somebody's using them on a different boat." It takes a few minutes on the phone to dismiss a ticket like that and we have done it with no further action required. If however the photos clearly show a violation and clearly show the responsible party and you're just angry about photo enforcement, we're not likely to dismiss that but you may still chose to go tell the Court how you feel.

Our judge, bailiffs, and clerk also drive from the Federal court in Flagstaff to Kingman once a month in the summer to set up at the Mohave Superior Court in an effort to make it a little easier on people cited in Mohave County to argue their case. And if you have limited financial means the judge will appoint a public defender to represent you if you like. Plenty of folks do chose to take things to court.

 

[77charger]

Replace pwc'er in his statement with jet boter.
I don't believe he meant to single out pwc.....although it's typically what we see, lol.[emoji6]

I forgot to add wakeboard board damn it its the beer already tonight.:eek

 

[SRice]

Well said exactly! He's also getting dis respected because of the petty tickets he has given in the off road community. Yes it's his job but he also has an opportunity to educate not just write tickets and on top of it hide in the bushes then send people tickets . From the sounds of it SRice has wrote a lot of tickets for very petty stuff. Bottles, passing rough a small section of USFW property, going 6 mph in a no wake zone the list goes on and on. I've heard plenty on the off road forums the boating forums just put it over the top for me. I am all for safety and if you have some jack ass doing 20 mph in a no wake zone and knows what he is doing or kids with out life jackets etc. they deserve tickets . most of us have common sense. From the sounds of it SRice is a little ticket happy. Obviously there is probable cause for all the dis respect.

Has anybody here actually gotten a ticket from me or have first hand knowledge of what tickets I've written and under what circumstances?

 

[rivermobster]

Did you see Ziggys post. ? He has a small motor boat. Kinda like Boat Cop and RiverMobster. :skull

If I remember right he said he doesn't boat on weekends and mostly during the off season.

I'm in good company then...

[emoji106]

 

[Bobby V]

I'm in good company then...

[emoji106]

Good company as in SRice and you. :thumbsup

 

[SRice]

Officer Rice
Untrained boaters put everyone at risk, from the point they hook the trailer to their car until they get home, no question. Rental agency customers being the biggest offenders. Ignorance they claim.
The blanket approach your agency is taking stomps on everyones rights, but mostly on those of us that enjoy the lake regularly. We are not the ones you should be focused on, we know the rules and regulations. It's the untrained ones, or those that have barely two hours hands on experience(pardon that jab).
If the goal is prevention it never has made sense to me to punish after the fact instead of preventing it beforehand. Make contact with the obvious newbie before they kill or mame someone, that's what I'd consider preventative.
.
Also, I'm aware of the girl that died near Laughlin, passenger on a seadoo if I'm correct. You keep referencing this incident and hoping to prevent such horrible deaths....as do we all. But somehow I feel as though you are condeming boaters for this accident and not PWC operators.
This heavy handed enforcement will only cause us experienced boaters to get stronger in numbers, defend, fight and stop all this nonsense that keeps interfering with our freedoms and lifestyle.

I totally agree that untrained boaters are a big part of the safety concern on Lake Havasu. Arizona is one of the very few remaining states that does not require boater education, and that is an opportunity for this community to flex its muscle for something really positive by demanding mandatory boater education from the state legislature. I reference the Laughlin accident because it is the most recent in the area involving a motorized vessel, but Havasu is no stranger to boating fatalities.

 

[Bradsrvrtoy.]

I totally agree that untrained boaters are a big part of the safety concern on Lake Havasu.

Lets start with your officers so I dont have to worry about my safety if they stop me.


Arizona is one of the very few remaining states that does not require boater education, and that is an opportunity for this community to flex its muscle for something really positive by demanding mandatory boater education from the state legislature.

Az legislature hasnt passed that law because the NEED for it isnt justified based on accidents vs. Users....however az does follow california so I would bet it is coming in a few years

 

[SRice]

Well done. Thanks for directly posting an answer. Much easier to decipher than trying to read every post you make, and try to put those pieces together. :thumbsup Aint nobody got time for that!

Here's another hint for ya...

When I say "hey mother fucker" and put a "" after it, it means we (all of us on here) are joking around with you. I don't joke around with people I don't like. Does that explain it well enough for you?

Now about your statement I bolded...

How long have you been boating here??? What are you basing that statement on??

Alan (boatcop), RD and myself will all be happy to tell you, the lake is safer than ever. There are stats to prove that as well. I've been boating on Havasu, since 74 or so. I can pretty much walk my talk about knowing a tiny bit about Lake Havasu and Parker.

I'm pretty sure you mentioned that you're new to Lake Havasu. Not only that, you just hired a non boater to police that lake?? Are you serious dude?? How about if I come down to your office (having zero LE experience), and try and tell YOU how to do YOUR job?!?!??!?! Do you think that would fly? Would you listen to me? Yeah, I'm think'n probably not. Hire some people with massive amounts of boating experience. Hard to believe there aren't lots of people that would actually love that job.

Let's take the issue with the little girl...

Did you read some of those posters remarks, that are regulars in that area? If you did, you will see that particular area is a regular problem, due to the PWC rental places there. So, let's take that information and see what we can do with it; how about you police that area EVERY weekend, so the rental people will tell their customers "be careful, the cops are Always around here. Don't do anything wrong!" Easy huh? Think that would help? You can learn a LOT just hanging around, and reading what's posted on here.

God gave you two ears and one mouth. Know why? Cause you're supposed to use em in that proportion...

Stick around Steve. You might learn a few things if you do.

Well, thank you for that, motherfucker😉. I've been at Havasu for four years. Prior to that I spent three years boating full time in South Florida and several summers boating in Alaska. While I think the statistics probably support your claim that Havasu has gotten safer over the decades, my perspective is based on comparing Havasu today to other places where I have boated and this place is by far he most dangerous boating environment I have experienced. One of my coworkers just left to take a job in Hawaii. He was former Coast and also had significant time in Florida, Alaska, and numerous other postings and he shared my opinion that Havasu is still high on the list of most dangerous waterways. And finally, Google "most dangerous waterways" and see what the Coast Guard and your local paper have to say. We have just hired two officers who were centrally recruited by folks in DC- both come to us with significant law enforcement experience and one of the two has about 15 years of marine law enforcement. The newer officer will get a lot of opportunities to train with experienced staff before we throw him to the wolves. I'd be very happy to spend some time up in Laughlin. You just need to persuade Representative Gosar to expand the boundaries of the National Wildlife Refuge another 50 miles upriver...😏

 

[SRice]

I believe he said he has a 10hp boat to fish in with his son.

Yep.

 

[alexJ]

FWS did hold three public meetings at the Avi Casino and in Lake Havasu City- probably well in excess of 1000 people attended and my Refuge Manager and the Regional Management were there to hear public comment. Unfortunately in my opinion, we were all directed to listen to the public comment but the established rules did not allow FWS employees to respond. I know Dave and Alex and probably many other members of this forum attended; I was off stage but also present for all three.

Refuge manager Linda Miller was there!? She faced all the citizens she was trying to force her crazy will on? ...NO.
I personally only made it to 2 of the 3 meetings as I couldn't miss that much work driving to different states midweek, but I know many people asked to speak to Linda (myself included at both meetings) but were told she was unavailable.

 

[Bradsrvrtoy.]

Refuge manager Linda Miller was there!? She faced all the citizens she was trying to force her crazy will on? ...NO.
I personally only made it to 2 of the 3 meetings as I couldn't miss that much work driving to different states midweek, but I know many people asked to speak to Linda (myself included at both meetings) but were told she was unavailable.

Bet ya she's the "paddle sports" type! Wont listen to anything ya gotta say...

 

[Gelcoater]

Well, thank you for that, motherfucker. I've been at Havasu for four years. Prior to that I spent three years boating full time in South Florida and several summers boating in Alaska. While I think the statistics probably support your claim that Havasu has gotten safer over the decades, my perspective is based on comparing Havasu today to other places where I have boated and this place is by far he most dangerous boating environment I have experienced. One of my coworkers just left to take a job in Hawaii. He was former Coast and also had significant time in Florida, Alaska, and numerous other postings and he shared my opinion that Havasu is still high on the list of most dangerous waterways. And finally, Google "most dangerous waterways" and see what the Coast Guard and your local paper have to say. We have just hired two officers who were centrally recruited by folks in DC- both come to us with significant law enforcement experience and one of the two has about 15 years of marine law enforcement. The newer officer will get a lot of opportunities to train with experienced staff before we throw him to the wolves. I'd be very happy to spend some time up in Laughlin. You just need to persuade Representative Gosar to expand the boundaries of the National Wildlife Refuge another 50 miles upriver...

Welcome to RDP,mutherfucker.

I been reading in here periodically,haven't read every post and I haven't posted till now.Some of the inmates have given you a bit of a verbal smacking around and others have been a bit more cool.Some others yet are just dicks.

Its good to see you lighten up a little while still getting your points across and being informative.
You know what you may consider?And maybe it has been proposed?

If one or more of the inmates would entertain the idea of taking you out on their boat,off duty,on your personal time to really experience the place from a recreational stand point.
Get to know the real demographic of Havasu boaters,not just the rental people and noobs.
Get to know the lake.
I'm sure you have to stick to the hot spots on duty.So,you see the "worst of worse" conditions and people doing stupid shit.
Go see the lake,the rest of it.Florida boating is just that,Florida boating.Alaskan boating is,well?Cold I imagine,lol.
Havasu is Havasu.Before you pass judgment that it's the most dangerous place You have seen,go see it all.
At least in Havasu there's no chance of getting eaten by a gator when you jump in to cool off.:cool

 

[Ziggy]

Welcome to RDP,mutherfucker.

I been reading in here periodically,haven't read every post and I haven't posted till now.Some of the inmates have given you a bit of a verbal smacking around and others have been a bit more cool.Some others yet are just dicks.

Its good to see you lighten up a little while still getting your points across and being informative.
You know what you may consider?And maybe it has been proposed?

If one or more of the inmates would entertain the idea of taking you out on their boat,off duty,on your personal time to really experience the place from a recreational stand point.
Get to know the real demographic of Havasu boaters,not just the rental people and noobs.
Get to know the lake.
I'm sure you have to stick to the hot spots on duty.So,you see the "worst of worse" conditions and people doing stupid shit.
Go see the lake,the rest of it.Florida boating is just that,Florida boating.Alaskan boating is,well?Cold I imagine,lol.
Havasu is Havasu.Before you pass judgment that it's the most dangerous place You have seen,go see it all.
At least in Havasu there's no chance of getting eaten by a gator when you jump in to cool off.:cool

And his son. Bet both would have ear to ear grins at some point. [emoji106]

 

[Gelcoater]

And his son. Bet both would have ear to ear grins at some point. [emoji106]

No doubt.:thumbsup

 

[SRice]

Welcome to RDP,mutherfucker.

I been reading in here periodically,haven't read every post and I haven't posted till now.Some of the inmates have given you a bit of a verbal smacking around and others have been a bit more cool.Some others yet are just dicks.

Its good to see you lighten up a little while still getting your points across and being informative.
You know what you may consider?And maybe it has been proposed?

If one or more of the inmates would entertain the idea of taking you out on their boat,off duty,on your personal time to really experience the place from a recreational stand point.
Get to know the real demographic of Havasu boaters,not just the rental people and noobs.
Get to know the lake.
I'm sure you have to stick to the hot spots on duty.So,you see the "worst of worse" conditions and people doing stupid shit.
Go see the lake,the rest of it.Florida boating is just that,Florida boating.Alaskan boating is,well?Cold I imagine,lol.
Havasu is Havasu.Before you pass judgment that it's the most dangerous place You have seen,go see it all.
At least in Havasu there's no chance of getting eaten by a gator when you jump in to cool off.:cool

Yeah, but I hear you have piranha! We do pretty much just patrol from Contact Point to I40, but occasionally up further upriver or down to the Bill Williams River NWR. We keep another boat down there though and usually just drop it in the water to patrol at the south end of the lake. My favorite activity on the lake though is loading our camping gear up and going downlake to use those BLM sites, but October to April only. After that I'm not interested in camping or being in a small, slow boat, still rent a pontoon from time to time though. I do appreciate the offer and someday maybe I'll take you all up on it. I have back surgery on Tuesday and after that it'll be awhile before I'm allowed on any boat according to the surgeon. Play nice with my officers while I'm out.

 

[lIQUIDATEDdAMAGES]

I totally agree that untrained boaters are a big part of the safety concern on Lake Havasu. Arizona is one of the very few remaining states that does not require boater education, and that is an opportunity for this community to flex its muscle for something really positive by demanding mandatory boater education from the state legislature. I reference the Laughlin accident because it is the most recent in the area involving a motorized vessel, but Havasu is no stranger to boating fatalities.

I've tried to stay out of the shit throwing contest in this thread so far but the boater education subject made me want to comment.

I agree that there are too many uneducated boaters on the water. I run into them all the time. At the river and in the ocean which is even crazier. I worked at the fuel dock in Newport for two years. I've seen people who just picked up their first boat (60' yacht) literally rip the cleats out of the fuel dock when hitting the gas instead of the gear shift...then proceed to yell at the people trying to help.

With that said I have also lived in a state that required boater education, Washington. Senior year of college I stayed in state for my internship and had the old 12' inflatable tender from my parents boat with an 18hp tohatsu for a fishing vessel. I followed the law and took the course. It was the dumbest shit I've ever seen. Granted, I have been boating probably a thousand times in my 27 years but it was literally fucking worthless even if I had never been on a boat in my life.

I don't disagree with mandatory education but I think it should be something worthwhile with an option to test out of it if you actually know what the fuck you are doing.

IMHO taking photos of people making a wake in a no wake zone is ticky tac bullshit. It's not making anyone safer. No body is dying in a no wake zone 99.99% of the time and if they are it's a prop strike or carbon monoxide...

Better ways to address the issue. How about a required training before renting boats maybe 30 minutes? eg- sea doo's don't have brakes, give it gas to turn, watch out behind you and don't do donuts in narrow waterways...

 

[Ziggy]

All the best on your surgery[emoji106]

 

[bluebleeder]

Vin for sure but I feel it is appropriate. 😂

[video=youtube_https;j_eH229fMfM]https://youtu.be/j_eH229fMfM[/video]

 

[Havasteve]

Well, thank you for that, motherfucker. I've been at Havasu for four years. Prior to that I spent three years boating full time in South Florida and several summers boating in Alaska. While I think the statistics probably support your claim that Havasu has gotten safer over the decades, my perspective is based on comparing Havasu today to other places where I have boated and this place is by far he most dangerous boating environment I have experienced. One of my coworkers just left to take a job in Hawaii. He was former Coast and also had significant time in Florida, Alaska, and numerous other postings and he shared my opinion that Havasu is still high on the list of most dangerous waterways. And finally, Google "most dangerous waterways" and see what the Coast Guard and your local paper have to say. We have just hired two officers who were centrally recruited by folks in DC- both come to us with significant law enforcement experience and one of the two has about 15 years of marine law enforcement. The newer officer will get a lot of opportunities to train with experienced staff before we throw him to the wolves. I'd be very happy to spend some time up in Laughlin. You just need to persuade Representative Gosar to expand the boundaries of the National Wildlife Refuge another 50 miles upriver...

Havasu and the river are as safe as they've ever been. There's just no reason for any of this.

So you say "this place is by far he most dangerous boating environment I have experienced" That's your opinion. You have to be pretty timid or sensitive to think it's that bad. I mean come on. I've been on this river for decades, I call BS on your assessment. It's not the way you describe it. Also comparing Havasu with some other body of water makes little to no sense. Where did that come from. Why does that make sense?

 

[Bradsrvrtoy.]

Havasu and the river are as safe as they've ever been. There's just no reason for any of this.

So you say "this place is by far he most dangerous boating environment I have experienced" That's your opinion. You have to be pretty timid or sensitive to think it's that bad. I mean come on. I've been on this river for decades, I call BS on your assessment. It's not the way you describe it. Also comparing Havasu with some other body of water makes little to no sense. Where did that come from. Why does that make sense?

Googling havasu will give ya a bunch of shit and will show OUTDATED statistics! Just like someone saying Arizona has the most boats per capita than any other state....Yeah it did in the late 70s because no one lived in Az! This is all bullshit propaganda by people trying to justify thier jobs who have no place or knowledge of the power boaters lifestyle or experience to make these laws!

 

[throttle]

I feel so much better after reading all that :grumble:... outside of all of the politics and opinions about this thread, the one thing that is disturbing to me and caught my attention is to read about how little experience a new employee/agent has behind the wheel of an enforcement boat that he is driving.

Mr. Rice, all my best to you for taking it from the inmates here. I don't judge, but I am guessing that the boating lifestyle we support may not be the same as yours. I would encourage you to learn more about what motivates us and drives our passions within this community.

Boating is a lifestyle to us, we care about the lake and the waterways above and below it.

We will be here till the race ends!

 

[Ziggy]

I feel so much better after reading all that :grumble:... outside of all of the politics and opinions about this thread, the one thing that is disturbing to me and caught my attention is to read about how little experience a new employee/agent has behind the wheel of an enforcement boat that he is driving.

Mr. Rice, all my best to you for taking it from the inmates here. I don't judge, but I am guessing that the boating lifestyle we support may not be the same as yours. I would encourage you to learn more about what motivates us and drives our passions within this community.

Boating is a lifestyle to us, we care about the lake and the waterways above and below it.

We will be here till the race ends!

So eloquent [emoji4]
.
Our lifestyle is also very social. We gather in numbers to socialize with friends, it seems, more than most other lifestyles. It makes us a tight knit "community". We encourage and welcome others to enjoy it as much as we do.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Well, thank you for that, motherfucker😉. I've been at Havasu for four years. Prior to that I spent three years boating full time in South Florida and several summers boating in Alaska. While I think the statistics probably support your claim that Havasu has gotten safer over the decades, my perspective is based on comparing Havasu today to other places where I have boated and this place is by far he most dangerous boating environment I have experienced. One of my coworkers just left to take a job in Hawaii. He was former Coast and also had significant time in Florida, Alaska, and numerous other postings and he shared my opinion that Havasu is still high on the list of most dangerous waterways. And finally, Google "most dangerous waterways" and see what the Coast Guard and your local paper have to say. We have just hired two officers who were centrally recruited by folks in DC- both come to us with significant law enforcement experience and one of the two has about 15 years of marine law enforcement. The newer officer will get a lot of opportunities to train with experienced staff before we throw him to the wolves. I'd be very happy to spend some time up in Laughlin. You just need to persuade Representative Gosar to expand the boundaries of the National Wildlife Refuge another 50 miles upriver...😏

Yeah, but I hear you have piranha! We do pretty much just patrol from Contact Point to I40, but occasionally up further upriver or down to the Bill Williams River NWR. We keep another boat down there though and usually just drop it in the water to patrol at the south end of the lake. My favorite activity on the lake though is loading our camping gear up and going downlake to use those BLM sites, but October to April only. After that I'm not interested in camping or being in a small, slow boat, still rent a pontoon from time to time though. I do appreciate the offer and someday maybe I'll take you all up on it. I have back surgery on Tuesday and after that it'll be awhile before I'm allowed on any boat according to the surgeon. Play nice with my officers while I'm out.

There ya go! Those 2 posts show a little personality and less robotic responces. That's good to see. Good luck with your surgery and if you can take up any of these guys on their boat ride offers, I guarantee you will truly enjoy it.

 

[TCHB]

I spend more time on Havaus than most people and I feel it is safe. Saturday is the busiest day and Sunday it really tapers off. During the week it is fairly empty.

Do we have a few people that drive unsafe? Yes just like any roadway or waterway.

 

[SRice]

Thought I'd share one sample from the 4th of July of the sort of stuff we're seeing in photographs which lead to actual citations. This is the dredged channel on the California side at the mouth of the river and a no-wake zone for several years.

 

[underpressure]

Thought I'd share one sample from the 4th of July of the sort of stuff we're seeing in photographs which lead to actual citations. This is the dredged channel on the California side at the mouth of the river and a no-wake zone for several years.
View attachment 496797

My son and I (separate boats) had just entered the no wake dragged channel today, about 10:30 am. Saw a similar deal...some azzhat comes flying by us between the channels markers and the island, probably doing 50+ in a Daytona. About half way thru I guess he figure it out and chops the throttle...idled off to the Cali side until my son got close and then yells over "how long does this last"? Umm, about another 100 yards dumbass...

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

My son and I (separate boats) had just entered the no wake dragged channel today, about 10:30 am. Saw a similar deal...some azzhat comes flying by us between the channels markers and the island, probably doing 50+ in a Daytona. About half way thru I guess he figure it out and chops the throttle...idled off to the Cali side until my son got close and then yells over "how long does this last"? Umm, about another 100 yards dumbass...

Should have said another 17 miles.. River is closed.

 

[McRib]

My son and I (separate boats) had just entered the no wake dragged channel today, about 10:30 am. Saw a similar deal...some azzhat comes flying by us between the channels markers and the island, probably doing 50+ in a Daytona. About half way thru I guess he figure it out and chops the throttle...idled off to the Cali side until my son got close and then yells over "how long does this last"? Umm, about another 100 yards dumbass...

Go after these types individually. If no wake zones are your problem areas then post up near them and educate or cite.

I will never discount a death on the water. Any death is tragic and avoidable. Ive seen seasoned vets have oh shit moments and weve all seen rookie bullshit. Drunk or sober.... shit can happen. Drunken stupidity to mechanical sober failure that can result in someones death just the same at being drunk.

With that said..... it will never stop! The water is 100 times safer than it was 20 yrs ago and boats are twice the size today. I tired of an unfortunate death leading to new laws and legislature that will never fix the problem. All it does is piss the 90% of GOOD boaters off because we have to pay for the 10%ers mistakes.

Sorry UP. I quoted the wrong post. I meant to quote the post with the big vbottom at speed in the no wake.

 

[Ziggy]

Thought I'd share one sample from the 4th of July of the sort of stuff we're seeing in photographs which lead to actual citations. This is the dredged channel on the California side at the mouth of the river and a no-wake zone for several years.
View attachment 496797

That is pretty clear cut.
Not a boat I can say I've seen before...
.
And there seems to be a serious ratio issue onboard[emoji15] [emoji1]

 

[DRYHEAT]

Is that an agency photograph or private citizen?

 

[throttle]

Thought I'd share one sample from the 4th of July of the sort of stuff we're seeing in photographs which lead to actual citations. This is the dredged channel on the California side at the mouth of the river and a no-wake zone for several years.
View attachment 496797

Mr Rice,

This example is worthy of a citation and a slap on his bum for being blatantly irresponsible with no due regard to the posted markers (not to mention the safety of his passengers and other boaters)!

However, I don't think the OP's citation / warning that was sent in the mail was anything to this extreme. It would be my opinion that the complaints about wake speed citations would be supported if they all looked like this example, but that was not the way I perceived the complaints about "big brother watching".

 

[SRice]

Is that an agency photograph or private citizen?

That is one of our photos. We got about 20 over the holiday weekend which were pretty egregious- skis and boats, private and rentals. I'm glad to see that most folks responding share my opinion that this is not acceptable.

 

[USMC2010]

I doubt anyone here would find this one acceptable. How does this compare to the no wake mailed whatevers from the bridge?

 

[throttle]

That is one of our photos. We got about 20 over the holiday weekend which were pretty egregious- skis and boats, private and rentals. I'm glad to see that most folks responding share my opinion that this is not acceptable.

So, I am curious... Can you make us feel better by telling us that the perpetrators you mention were cited, fined, had a safety inspection?

 

[DRYHEAT]

That is one of our photos. We got about 20 over the holiday weekend which were pretty egregious- skis and boats, private and rentals. I'm glad to see that most folks responding share my opinion that this is not acceptable.

The reason I asked, did your agency take any action at the time? I think it would've been a great time for a citation/education and or sobriety check, but the original post was unclear to me.
It sounded as though he was going to get a ticket in the mail.

 

[SRice]

So, I am curious... Can you make us feel better by telling us that the perpetrators you mention were cited, fined, had a safety inspection?

Those are going to receive tickets; others which were less severe are being sent warnings. There was no opportunity for a safety inspection of these.

 

[Singleton]

Thought I'd share one sample from the 4th of July of the sort of stuff we're seeing in photographs which lead to actual citations. This is the dredged channel on the California side at the mouth of the river and a no-wake zone for several years.
View attachment 496797

Looks like an overloaded situation as well. IMO if you post photos like this as examples, most folks on this site would be OK with a citation being issued.

 

[SRice]

Looks like an overloaded situation as well. IMO if you post photos like this as examples, most folks on this site would be OK with a citation being issued.

I picked that particular one because the boat is from Texas and I figured it was unlikely to be known to anybody on RDP. But If we agree on this one I think we'd agree on most if not all of the actual tickets that have gone out.

 

[throttle]

Those are going to receive tickets; others which were less severe are being sent warnings. There was no opportunity for a safety inspection of these.

Are your agendas as big of a secret as you want your camers's to be?

I don't think I understand the purpose of your agency being able to take pictures (other than to build a case against our waterways for closures) but can't stop a boat to issue ticket or do a safety inspection and possibly save someone's life by handling the problem right away.

You mention that some will receive tickets (in mail). That was a week ago, in that week of time that has gone by it could have been possible that those same boats and operators could have seriously injured or worse than that as even killed someone because their actions were not corrected at the time needed. I begin to ask more questions about the intent of your agency. Is there a mission statement that you care to share? Because I have lost some confidence.

 

[SRice]

Are your agendas as big of a secret as you want your camers's to be?

I don't think I understand the purpose of your agency being able to take pictures (other than to build a case against our waterways for closures) but can't stop a boat to issue ticket or do a safety inspection and possibly save someone's life by handling the problem right away.

You mention that some will receive tickets (in mail). That was a week ago, in that week of time that has gone by it could have been possible that those same boats and operators could have seriously injured or worse than that as even killed someone because their actions were not corrected at the time needed. I begin to ask more questions about the intent of your agency. Is there a mission statement that you care to share? Because I have lost some confidence.

I did not have any opportunity to stop this boat or the others we are discussing. If I could have stopped him then and there I would have done so. We would then have completed a vessel safety inspection and looked for any indication that he was impaired as we do with everybody we contact in real time. I do believe though that even a week later this individual will learn some lesson from getting a ticket in the mail. If not, the next time he is contacted he will likely be given a mandatory appearance citation and explain to the magistrate why he is continuing to operate recklessly. With many of our mandatories (for a wide variety of offenses from OUI to dumping) the magistrate has accepted pleas which include bans from FWS and BLM lands, so incrimentally we are getting rid of some of the chronic offenders.

 

[SRice]

Are your agendas as big of a secret as you want your camers's to Is there a mission statement that you care to share? Because I have lost some confidence.

https://www.fws.gov/help/about_us.html

 

[alexJ]

No argument on that one from me... But that's not a fair comparison to what's gone out in the past. Regardless of that... That's a legit photo... Solid lens focused on a moving target. Not a motion sensor bird blind. That photo was taken by a human; why exactly wasn't there an opportunity to cite/inspect/educate that individual in person?

 

[throttle]

https://www.fws.gov/help/about_us.html

Mr Rice, thank you for your responses. I thank you and your staff for your service and conservation efforts!

I was hoping a mission statement would help me better understand your efforts of educating boaters, safety or enforcement. Maybe I missed it.

My last question, what do you or your agency hope to improve with the boaters by mailing citations or warnings?

 

[94Nautique]

Mr Rice, thank you for your responses. I thank you and your staff for your service and conservation efforts!

I was hoping a mission statement would help me better understand your efforts of educating boaters, safety or enforcement. Maybe I missed it.

My last question, what do you or your agency hope to improve with the boaters by mailing citations or warnings?

View attachment 496858

Uh oh, that's gonna leave a mark...[emoji41]

 

[Havdesert]

Mr Rice, thank you for your responses. I thank you and your staff for your service and conservation efforts!

I was hoping a mission statement would help me better understand your efforts of educating boaters, safety or enforcement. Maybe I missed it.

My last question, what do you or your agency hope to improve with the boaters by mailing citations or warnings?

View attachment 496858

Ha yes I think it's time USFW gets back to what they are supposed to be doing not petty tickets to meet their ticket quota

 

[Singleton]

Mr Rice, thank you for your responses. I thank you and your staff for your service and conservation efforts!

I was hoping a mission statement would help me better understand your efforts of educating boaters, safety or enforcement. Maybe I missed it.

My last question, what do you or your agency hope to improve with the boaters by mailing citations or warnings?

View attachment 496858

Biggest issue with that mission statement; Nothing is stated about continuing to allow recreational usage to these areas. I think the mission statement needs to be modified to include that verbiage.
Also, I think we have to many agencies patrolling Havasu (Needles Bridge to the Springs), with varying laws and we need consistency on the laws and enforcement practices.

 

[rivermobster]

I picked that particular one because the boat is from Texas and I figured it was unlikely to be known to anybody on RDP. But If we agree on this one I think we'd agree on most if not all of the actual tickets that have gone out.

We agree.

When it clear cut stupidity, throw the book at them! (educate them properly) [emoji6]

Written warnings are fine as well, if that what Needs to happen.

Educating the idiots Is the job you signed up for, and it's not an easy one. I don't envy you at all.

But please take any one of us up on our offer to come out and hang with us. MOST of us on here, aren't at the river to cause Any problems. We all love life, the river, our friends and our families.

Please don't lump us all together! Don't let the few asshats you have to deal with make the rest of us look bad.

Peace, from your friends at RDP...

 

[sirbob]

Thought I'd share one sample from the 4th of July of the sort of stuff we're seeing in photographs which lead to actual citations. This is the dredged channel on the California side at the mouth of the river and a no-wake zone for several years.
View attachment 496797

That is one of our photos. We got about 20 over the holiday weekend which were pretty egregious- skis and boats, private and rentals. I'm glad to see that most folks responding share my opinion that this is not acceptable.

Those are going to receive tickets; others which were less severe are being sent warnings. There was no opportunity for a safety inspection of these.

I have been watching most of this thread from the side line but when I see what you have said here it prompts me to wonder about something...

Is that all you got?

What I mean is this pic shows a long lens shot that does not accurately show the distance to the marker from the boat - is he approaching the no wake zone? The markers in the background look to me like they are marking a no wake zone lateral to the direction of the boat.

If this were me that received this document in the mail requesting me to pay a fine - we would get a chance to meet in court and have a chat about it.

In the last week I received a ticket in the mail of "my" car blowing off a toll booth on the Golden Gate Bridge - it was not my car - it has never been to San Fran!

6 months ago I received a ticket in the mail with a picture of my car in a toll lane on the 210 fwy with out paying - in an area of the 210 fwy that has NO TOLL lane...

I did not end up paying either fine.

I would not pay that fine either (legally) if that pic is all you got...

To be clear - I don't advocate blasting through no wake zones - it's just that that pic proves nothing to me.

 

[Bobby V]

I have been watching most of this thread from the side line but when I see what you have said here it prompts me to wonder about something...

Is that all you got?

What I mean is this pic shows a long lens shot that does not accurately show the distance to the marker from the boat - is he approaching the no wake zone? The markers in the background look to me like they are marking a no wake zone lateral to the direction of the boat.

If this were me that received this document. In the mail requesting me to pay a fine - we would get a chance to meet in court and have a chat about it.

In the last week I received a ticket in the mail of "my" car blowing off a toll booth on the Golden Gate Bridge - it was not my car - it has never been to San Fran!

6 months ago I received a ticket in the mail with a picture of my car in a toll lane on the 210 fwy with out paying - in an area of the 210 fwy that has NO TOLL lane...

I did not end up paying either fine.

I would not pay that fine either (legally) if that pic is all you got...

To be clear - I don't advocate blasting through no wake zones - it's just that that pic proves nothing to me.

To me the markers in the back ground start the no wake channel. Looks like the boater from Texas cut thru the lane to get in the no wake chanel. Maybe if the boat hit the marker next to him it would be more clear.