A Question...?

[Old Texan]

Realistically the US can change the world by utilizing what we have more efficiently and we are trying to do that. In order to get rid of cheap and more ever present Chinese products is to allow our technologies to build things better and build them cheaper. The burdens of OCare and government bureaucracy are what prevents this from happening. So many things pile onto private enterprise it's fiscally impossible to be competitive. Litigation sits waiting to pounce on every shelf and around every corner.

Government does not create jobs, it creates a positive environment to allow jobs to happen. Unfortunately DC for the most part does not get it.

Energy can be clean and cheap if government gets out of the way and allows private industry to develop and incorporate proper technology. Subsidies and grants are proven out to be a waste and plain ain't working, unless you count political payback and graft. The people own this nation and tomorrow the people will take it back

 

[was thatguy]

The point is, and I did a very poor job of getting it across, China is not going to develop the technology to clean up the air in this decade anymore than our major cities were during the industrial revolution. Its starts with us, we have ride our way out of this situation on the back of technology that we develop because we have to to continue to do business. This is not a 4 year process, this is not an 8 year process. We are 25 years away from seeing the benefits of that work maybe a few less if we get lucky. We have exactly ONE way to deal with China and thats by changing consumption habbits. Tarrifs dont work, monetary sanctions don't work, idle threats don't work. Our most important vote is with our dollars. You want to change China (and the situation here at home) overnight... Stop buying products made in China today, this can't be politically mandated as thats financial suicide. It has to be at the consumer level and we have to be diligent about it. Oddly enough if we did that well enough I wouldn't have a job... Not my current one anyway. We blame Washington, we blame Wall street, but the real problem is on main street. We say we want good jobs here at home while listening to Rush Limbaugh on our way to Wallmart. We say we want fiscal responsibility out of our governments but invent an entire economy based on spending the so called equity in our homes. (Yea there were Washington and Wall street factors that helped that along, but ultimately the decision is made by the individual)... And worse much much worse we actually piss and wine about our president because he has not helped us "recover". We are recovered... This is it. if you are not able to make money doing what you are doing right now...do something else. Obama didn't save you, Romney cant save you, and the rest of us while generous and kind cant feed you forever. Here is my very simple guidline for future success. If you derive your living from an industry that requires people to borrow money to partake in it, look for something different. If your main strategy for improving your fiscal position is to bitch about the occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania while waxing nostalgic about the good old days under George Bush... you are phuched. You are taking a cash advance on your reality check and the lender is a shark.

You know, I get your points just fine. They are valid IF one perceives others along the narrow ideals you describe.
But the truth is I know a lot of people suffering in MY narrow view strictly along my industry.
NONE of them fit the description you present.
(Except maybe going to Walmart, but thanks to O removing their jobs they are forced to scrimp to eat)

Your categorizations are broad, all inclusive, and inaccurate.

The investors in my industry are not borrowers, they are lenders.
The clients do not borrow, they hedge with co-investors.
ALL of them are sitting on millions/ billions waiting for this autobiography writing co-author to be displaced from the Oval Office.

Now there is a real, valid, and narrow view just like yours.
Can you acknowledge that as I have acknowledged your equally narrow view?

 

[was thatguy]

Realistically the US can change the world by utilizing what we have more efficiently and we are trying to do that. In order to get rid of cheap and more ever present Chinese products is to allow our technologies to build things better and build them cheaper. The burdens of OCare and government bureaucracy are what prevents this from happening. So many things pile onto private enterprise it's fiscally impossible to be competitive. Litigation sits waiting to pounce on every shelf and around every corner.

Government does not create jobs, it creates a positive environment to allow jobs to happen. Unfortunately DC for the most part does not get it.

Energy can be clean and cheap if government gets out of the way and allows private industry to develop and incorporate proper technology. Subsidies and grants are proven out to be a waste and plain ain't working, unless you count political payback and graft. The people own this nation and tomorrow the people will take it back

Tex, In our business we see it daily. It is real and in our face.
Others seem to wax about theory and ideology that just doesn't fit with our everyday examples.

 

[squeezer]

You know, I get your points just fine. They are valid IF one perceives others along the narrow ideals you describe.
But the truth is I know a lot of people suffering in MY narrow view strictly along my industry.
NONE of them fit the description you present.
(Except maybe going to Walmart, but thanks to O removing their jobs they are forced to scrimp to eat)

Your categorizations are broad, all inclusive, and inaccurate.

The investors in my industry are not borrowers, they are lenders.
The clients do not borrow, they hedge with co-investors.
ALL of them are sitting on millions/ billions waiting for this autobiography writing co-author to be displaced from the Oval Office.

Now there is a real, valid, and narrow view just like yours.
Can you acknowledge that as I have acknowledged your equally narrow view?

Real estate/land developement...? Thats one of the more common areas that people can sit on that much cash and wait.

Sounds like trickle down economics at its level best. "My guys have millions and billions but don't want to spend it with a Dem at the wheel..." I am sure their reasons are valid but not many of us rely on billionaires for our direct paychecks. Just the opposite really, most billionaires rely on wage earners to help them build that fortune. More power to them but I would rather rely on building an economy based on 10,000 guys with 100,000 dollars to build my business model than one guy with a billion. The odds are much better...

Oh and for the record... I am laughing my ass off at the idea that we should feel sorry for a group of investors sitting on millions and billions. Thats your position...really?

 

[530RL]

Oh and for the record... I am laughing my ass off at the idea that we should feel sorry for a group of investors sitting on millions and billions. Thats your position...really?

I don't think anyone feels sorry for the people sitting with millions on the sidelines, they all own those houses north of the keys. What we should all do, regardless of political affiliation, is try to create an environment, or elect people who will create an environment, where the rich folk will invest domestically so that maybe a few more jobs can be created because if we do not, the rich folk will simply invest where they can achieve the highest return risk adjusted. Without laying blame, we simply do not have that now.

 

[wsuwrhr]

I don't think anyone feels sorry for the people sitting with millions on the sidelines, they all own those houses north of the keys. What we should all do, regardless of political affiliation, is try to create an environment, or elect people who will create an environment, where the rich folk will invest domestically so that maybe a few more jobs can be created because if we do not, the rich folk will simply invest where they can achieve the highest return risk adjusted. Without laying blame, we simply do not have that now.

...or just sit on the money.

You are correct.

I don't understand why people can't think outside of their doorstep.

 

[The Doctor]

Real estate/land developement...? Thats one of the more common areas that people can sit on that much cash and wait.
So, can you name a dozen successful business owners that don't fit into this category? I been selling land for thirty-five years and I can confirm what was thatguy has said. Many, if not most of my clientele have no interest in the purchase or sale of land with the uncertainty in the White House. In times past, these investors drove markets that rivaled Wall Street and stimulated economic conditions as they transacted business doing such. Today, consumer confidence is the lowest it's been in my 62 year life and it will worsen substantially tomorrow if your Kenyan wins the election. Many investment markets will crash in a major way. Conversely, if Romney wins, before he ever takes office you will see an economic surge that will bolster businesses across America. I know, my clientele, with whom I speak daily, have confirmed their desires to expand rather than lay off which they will have to do if the Kenyan is elected. Are you aware of the number of defense jobs we stand to lose before the end of the year if your Kenyan wins?





Oh and for the record... I am laughing my ass off at the idea that we should feel sorry for a group of investors sitting on millions and billions. Thats your position...really?

Does everything fly right over your head? It's not the investors that will suffer. It's the middle class that won't benefit from these funds being put back into circulation as these investors hunker down.

 

[Racey]

...or just sit on the money.

You are correct.

I don't understand why people can't think outside of their doorstep.

Even when a lot of people sit on their money it still has the positive side effect of lowering prices, strengthing the buying power of your money. :thumbsup

Our problem is the government bureaucrats and politicians seem to think strong consumption is what causes a strong economy, not that strong consumption is simply a side effect of a strong economy, so when people sit on their capital, when prices should be falling from falling demand, the government steps in and creates some type of stimulus, or credit easing, which stops prices from falling, or makes them rise, without actual real production backing the rising prices.

 

[530RL]

Even when a lot of people sit on their money it still has the positive side effect of lowering prices, strengthing the buying power of your money.

I think most people in Japan over the last 20 years would disagree with this theory. It may lower prices short term, but in Japan during the 90's and partly into the 00's, money sitting on the sidelines, a consolidation of the banking industry to a few large institutions combined with lax monetary policy (a targeted government interest rate of .1%) generated a liquidity trap where there was very low economic growth and a muted barely existent recovery.....oh wait a minute....that sounds familiar.....

 

[Racey]

I think most people in Japan over the last 20 years would disagree with this theory. It may lower prices short term, but in Japan during the 90's and partly into the 00's, money sitting on the sidelines, a consolidation of the banking industry to a few large institutions combined with lax monetary policy (a targeted government interest rate of .1%) generated a liquidity trap where there was very low economic growth and a muted barely existent recovery.....oh wait a minute....that sounds familiar.....

Exactly, the governments manipulations counteracted the fact that there was less money being spent, more being saved, whatever way you wish to look at it, When prices should have been falling bringing demand back, the market finding equilibrium, the governments actions stifled it from occurring. Then investors are scared to spend any money as they are unsure as to what the next and worse problem that is coming down the tracks will be. Interest rates go super low, but only qualified people can get those loans, they already have plenty of assets and don't need the loans, people at the bottom can't get the loans based on no collateral whatever (not saying they should be given the loans, just saying they weren't getting them)..... All leading to stagnant activity.

 

[was thatguy]

Real estate/land developement...? Thats one of the more common areas that people can sit on that much cash and wait.

Sounds like trickle down economics at its level best. "My guys have millions and billions but don't want to spend it with a Dem at the wheel..." I am sure their reasons are valid but not many of us rely on billionaires for our direct paychecks. Just the opposite really, most billionaires rely on wage earners to help them build that fortune. More power to them but I would rather rely on building an economy based on 10,000 guys with 100,000 dollars to build my business model than one guy with a billion. The odds are much better...

Oh and for the record... I am laughing my ass off at the idea that we should feel sorry for a group of investors sitting on millions and billions. Thats your position...really?

Oil and gas drilling. I am a directional driller/ drilling consultant.
In better times I run a DD contractor labor pool.

O is our sworn enemy, as you can imagine.
Our investors are the oil and gas producers. And their investors are generally banking conglomerates.

Feeling sorry for them is not what I am about.
But their money IS what pays thousands of families bills.
My guys earn around $250K annual on average.
And I can generate about 3 million in cash flow when I have the work.

 

[thetub]

I think most people in Japan over the last 20 years would disagree with this theory. It may lower prices short term, but in Japan during the 90's and partly into the 00's, money sitting on the sidelines, a consolidation of the banking industry to a few large institutions combined with lax monetary policy (a targeted government interest rate of .1%) generated a liquidity trap where there was very low economic growth and a muted barely existent recovery.....oh wait a minute....that sounds familiar.....

this is the road I believe we are on.

 

[shueman]

Good to see some intelligence at work, for a change...:thumbsup

 

[Old Texan]

Oh and for the record... I am laughing my ass off at the idea that we should feel sorry for a group of investors sitting on millions and billions. Thats your position...really?

This is where "you" don't get it and the many other like thinkers to your phiolosophy the same thought process. No one is feeeling sorry for them at all, just making the point theyhavethe money sitting to invest but choose not to risk it under the circumstances of legislators like O who continue to change the game.

You're coming across as an idealist and idealists have a lot of trouble with the simplicities of reality. Reality in this case being the investors can choose and that is what is pissing this current admin off the most, they can't find away to corner those investors and grab the loot......

 

[Old Texan]

Good to see some intelligence at work, for a change...:thumbsup

Up until post #163.......skull

:rotflmao:

 

[squeezer]

Oil and gas drilling. I am a directional driller/ drilling consultant.
In better times I run a DD contractor labor pool.

O is our sworn enemy, as you can imagine.
Our investors are the oil and gas producers. And their investors are generally banking conglomerates.

Feeling sorry for them is not what I am about.
But their money IS what pays thousands of families bills.
My guys earn around $250K annual on average.
And I can generate about 3 million in cash flow when I have the work.

Thats a tougher gig than real estate... Half of my closest friends work in the energy sector in Alberta. All i really know about it is sometimes they spend big in Vegas and sometimes they spend really big in Vegas. Had the chance to get into that field out of college and went the product design direction instead. I don't regret that decision but do wonder what life would be like the other way.

@OT... I am a bit of an idealist thats for sure, when you put enough blood sweat and tears into life you either become and idealist or a cynic. Maybe I have not been at it long enough yet. Time will tell.


"if your Kenyan wins the election. Many investment markets will crash in a major way."

I agree... I agree so much that all of my households portfolio was converted into cash equivalents a few weeks ago. I think this along with the fiscal cliff fiasco that we are about to witness is going to drive the market to its knees. Will jump back in when things trend back up . (Holly crap maybe I am a cynic... Or a realist wrapped in an idealists cloak...) Not kidding here either, this is exactly what we have done with market invests this month.

 

[regor]

This is where "you" don't get it and the many other like thinkers to your phiolosophy the same thought process. No one is feeeling sorry for them at all, just making the point theyhavethe money sitting to invest but choose not to risk it under the circumstances of legislators like O who continue to change the game.

You're coming across as an idealist and idealists have a lot of trouble with the simplicities of reality. Reality in this case being the investors can choose and that is what is pissing this current admin off the most, they can't find away to corner those investors and grab the loot......

This is what these morons just can't handle Tex. The man with the dough ALWAYS calls the shots. Instead of aspiring to become one of these shot callers, they cry foul. I have NEVER seen any administration demean success, like this current group of bitches.

If your life is not living up to your expectations, get off your ass and work harder. My dad always told me, "Life isn't fair kid, get use to it." Don't let your leader fool you with his "fair share" rhetoric libtards, he will lead you down the loser path in life, history has proven it time and time again.

 

[DtB]

This is what these morons just can't handle Tex. The man with the dough ALWAYS calls the shots. Instead of aspiring to become one of these shot callers, they cry foul. I have NEVER seen any administration demean success, like this current group of bitches.

If your life is not living up to your expectations, get off your ass and work harder. My dad always told me, "Life isn't fair kid, get use to it." Don't let your leader fool you with his "fair share" rhetoric libtards, he will lead you down the loser path in life, history has proven it time and time again.

Not enough jobs for everyone that wants one
Try again

 

[Old Texan]

Not enough jobs for everyone that wants one
Try again

Winners take what's available and grow with it.....Losers sit around and bitch, often passing up opportunity because it's beneath them or requires effort.

 

[Old Texan]

@OT... I am a bit of an idealist thats for sure, when you put enough blood sweat and tears into life you either become and idealist or a cynic. Maybe I have not been at it long enough yet. Time will tell.

Either / or......Everything isn't always black or white. Gray is more often reality than not.

 

[squeezer]

Either / or......Everything isn't always black or white. Gray is more often reality than not.

We are 170 posts into a healthy debate... You don't get that by loudly expounding the virtues of Gray. :cool

 

[squeezer]

Winners take what's available and grow with it.....Losers sit around and bitch, often passing up opportunity because it's beneath them or requires effort.

Tex We Agree on Something !!!!

I didn't want to come right out and call all the people sitting around bitching about president Obama "losers" but now that you have done it I will boldly support your analysis.

 

[regor]

Not enough jobs for everyone that wants one
Try again

"Life isn't fair kid, get use to it"

 

[AzGeo]

We are 170 posts into a healthy debate... You don't get that by loudly expounding the virtues of Gray. :cool

You have seen a lot of 'black and white' and understand that most of it is covered with BROWN ! (not Mr Brown, just brown)

 

[squeezer]

You have seen a lot of 'black and white' and understand that most of it is covered with BROWN ! (not Mr Brown, just brown)

First OT calls all the guys complaining about President Obama losers... Now you are implying they are full of shit!

Man this thread is changing some minds around this place. I never expected such a positive result...:cool

 

[Tom Brown]

Can anybody explain to me why they think he is a good candidate without using a negative reference to Democrats or our President...??

That's going to be a tough given how campaigning works.

I thought McCain blew it by not campaigning on his own attributes. All we heard was that Obama was a terrorist, Bill Ayers, blah, blah, blah, when McCain had a record as an extreme fiscal conservative over multiple decades of working in congress. If McCain didn't bother to mention his record, that's pretty fucked.

It comes down to hate the other guy more than me. At least, that's what I'm hearing from the Republican side.

 

[AzGeo]

First OT calls all the guys complaining about President Obama losers... Now you are implying they are full of shit!

Man this thread is changing some minds around this place. I never expected such a positive result...:cool

BOY, I can't believe you didn't understand what I said. You ARE CORRECT: "maybe I have not been at it enough yet. Time will tell." I was making a 'play on words' as to GREY = OLDER maybe WISER and BROWN = most polititcans, their verbage the 'sheep who follow them' and don't understand/care what is going on in this country. If someone has been in business or really knows anything about actually operating a 'for profit' small/mid business, they would never vote for Obama on his record and naturally vote for Mitt because of his record. The 'big money guys' like Immelt and Oprah follow the President because they 'expect favors', not because he will 'help this country', they are way beyond 'the little people'. Those who 'want to work, will work, and more of them will work when we have better government policies'. Exactly the opposite policies of our current President.

 

[Bobby V]

BOY, I can't believe you didn't understand what I said. You ARE CORRECT: "maybe I have not been at it enough yet. Time will tell." I was making a 'play on words' as to GREY = OLDER maybe WISER and BROWN = most polititcans, their verbage the 'sheep who follow them' and don't understand/care what is going on in this country. If someone has been in business or really knows anything about actually operating a 'for profit' small/mid business, they would never vote for Obama on his record and naturally vote for Mitt because of his record. The 'big money guys' like Immelt and Oprah follow the President because they 'expect favors', not because he will 'help this country', they are way beyond 'the little people'. Those who 'want to work, will work, and more of them will work when we have better government policies'. Exactly the opposite policies of our current President.

The owner of my company voted for Obama. We have only been in business since 1969.

 

[regor]

The owner of my company voted for Obama. We have only been in business since 1969.

He's lying to keep you union boys from crying.

 

[wsuwrhr]

The owner of my company voted for Obama. We have only been in business since 1969.

Good for him. For you too. Probably doesn't want to hear your shit. Just keep workin.

 

[530RL]

My wife read the republican platform and voted for Obama. When I asked her why, she stated that we were smart enough to maneuver around whatever Obama throws at us economically but the Republican platform language on abortion, marriage, birth control, conception and the war on drugs was just too much government intervention into peoples personal liberty for her.

 

[wsuwrhr]

My wife read the republican platform and voted for Obama. When I asked her why, she stated that we were smart enough to maneuver around whatever Obama throws at us economically but the Republican platform language on abortion, marriage, birth control, conception and the war on drugs was just too much government intervention into peoples personal liberty for her.

Interesting take.

 

[regor]

My wife read the republican platform and voted for Obama. When I asked her why, she stated that we were smart enough to maneuver around whatever Obama throws at us economically but the Republican platform language on abortion, marriage, birth control, conception and the war on drugs was just too much government intervention into peoples personal liberty for her.

Go Rodney King on her!

 

[wsuwrhr]

[SUP][/SUP]

Go Rodney King on her!

That is just wrong.

Which one?

The one in the street or the one in the pool?

Too soon?

 

[Tom Brown]

My wife read the republican platform and voted for Obama. When I asked her why, she stated that we were smart enough to maneuver around whatever Obama throws at us economically but the Republican platform language on abortion, marriage, birth control, conception and the war on drugs was just too much government intervention into peoples personal liberty for her.

There are a lot of disillusioned Republicans these days. I think Ron Paul did an excellent job of shining light into some dark spaces. It would be great if something positive comes of that in the future.

 

[Bobby V]

He's lying to keep you union boys from crying.

What about the non-union office and shop guys. :rolleyes

Good for him. For you too. Probably doesn't want to hear your shit. Just keep workin.

Actually he is a very strong (D). I figured him for a (R).

 

[squeezer]

My wife read the republican platform and voted for Obama. When I asked her why, she stated that we were smart enough to maneuver around whatever Obama throws at us economically but the Republican platform language on abortion, marriage, birth control, conception and the war on drugs was just too much government intervention into peoples personal liberty for her.

And this fellow inmates is the single best post I have ever read on RDP...

 

[wsuwrhr]

What about the non-union office and shop guys. :rolleyes



Actually he is a very strong (D). I figured him for a (R).

People can say pretty much whatever they want. One of the great things left with the USA

Take brown for instance, get all involved in shit that means little to him, just for entertainment.

My guess is your boss doesn't want to hear your shit, so He just goes along with whatever you say. I mean, pretty good idea right? Makes you all warm and fuzzy and you show up everytday and make him tons of cash.

Plays you like a fiddle, maybe even a priceless strat'.

Brian

 

[wsuwrhr]

And this fellow inmates is the single best post I have ever read on RDP...

In your 4 months "here"?

Stick around, you will never believe this "shit" that brown posts.

 

[squeezer]

In your 4 months "here"?

Stick around, you will never believe this "shit" that brown posts.

I've lurked around for much longer than 4 months... Didn't feel the need to join up until the urge to buy a Schiada crept into my head.

 

[squeezer]

BOY, I can't believe you didn't understand what I said.

Boy I cant believe you didn't understand sarcasm.


Next...?

 

[Bobby V]

People can say pretty much whatever they want. One of the great things left with the USA

Take brown for instance, get all involved in shit that means little to him, just for entertainment.

My guess is your boss doesn't want to hear your shit, so He just goes along with whatever you say. I mean, pretty good idea right? Makes you all warm and fuzzy and you show up everytday and make him tons of cash.

Plays you like a fiddle, maybe even a priceless strat'.

Brian

Your guess would be wrong. I don't talk politics at work or at home. He is the one with a Obama sign in his rear window.

 

[squeezer]

I've lurked around for much longer than 4 months... Didn't feel the need to join up until the urge to buy a Schiada crept into my head.

Uh OH... I just outed myself as the ideal elitist!

 

[530RL]

Go Rodney King on her!

I think your confusing me with Chris Brown.

 

[regor]

I think your confusing me with Chris Brown.

Are you hitting the sherm again and forgetting your beat downs?

What about the non-union office and shop guys. :rolleyes

I'm stumped.:headscratch:

 

[thetub]

My wife read the republican platform and voted for Obama. When I asked her why, she stated that we were smart enough to maneuver around whatever Obama throws at us economically but the Republican platform language on abortion, marriage, birth control, conception and the war on drugs was just too much government intervention into peoples personal liberty for her.

Interesting take on it. We will follow suit like our forward thinking buddies in Greece and the Eurozone......

 

[regor]

And this fellow inmates is the single best post I have ever read on RDP...

Sneezer please, this post is the single worst, besides Wheeler's Prop 13 bullshit. Anyone who bases their vote in this election on anything other than the economy, is a fool.

 

[was thatguy]

The owner of my company voted for Obama. We have only been in business since 1969.

He must have an inside line to funds for "green" sprinkler systems...

 

[was thatguy]

Uh OH... I just outed myself as the ideal elitist!

More like the "Bi-Polar Express".
4 months and you are already quoting your own posts and talking to yourself.

 

[530RL]

Interesting take on it. We will follow suit like our forward thinking buddies in Greece and the Eurozone......

No question we are on a unsustainable fiscal path.

I think both of us would rather have a party that stayed out of the american people's wallets as well as their house and bedroom but that just does not exist. The U.S. has only ran a budget surplus for 3 years since 1970 so her view is that they are all in it to take from the taxpayers and give to their special interests. I hate it when she uses facts so I took a different tact.

I suggested to her that Romney and the Republicans were "more" fiscally conservative than the other party. She suggested that if a guy only sucks one dick, he is not "more" heterosexual than the guy that sucked two dicks, but that both guys suck dicks. I just sipped my coffee and went back to the paper.