A Question...?

[The Doctor]

The board has been so universally aligned with Governor Romney that I was wondering why I wasn't.

I doubt it has occurred to you that many on this board, like myself, are business owners. These business owners are smart enough to see the failed policies of this administration and they openly support Romney to replace this failure. They've clearly seen the results of failed leadership over the past few years. I've been in business for myself for the past 40+ years and most of my clientele are business owners as well. With very few exceptions, they are struggling to keep their heads above water with the economy struggling as it has. Now, you could believe the government's unemployment numbers if you choose but, in reality, these numbers are sadly skewed as millions drop out of the unemployed figures when they stop looking for work and millions of others are struggling to keep their businesses afloat, such as my clients are. These numbers also don't show millions of professionals such as stock brokers, insurance sales people, real estate professionals, etc. that are never counted in unemployment numbers but they are smart enough to see the complete and total failure of the past four years. They openly support Romney as well but you think it's some kind of conspiracy? It's common sense being applied and rational thinking ruling the day. We are not alone.

[video=youtube;JEhvF8b8Mrg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEhvF8b8Mrg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEhvF8b8Mrg[/video]

 

[was thatguy]

I'll list one. Post #62.
You can find the rest.

 

[Old Texan]

A joke from the beginning as the OP has no intention of seeing anything good about Romney. Another blind O supporter trying his best to justify an over his head unqualified far left wing backed charlatan who was put in place by a "machine". Conspiracy? No way as O couldn't have gotten anywhre near this level witout behind the scenes support. Ayers and Soros subversives who feed off the voting power of special interests then put up a charade to reel in the liberal feel good crowd and they have the votes to pull it off. Put up a smiling minority dummy who can talk shit on the street corner and cleans up well, and instantly pull in the bottom feeding voters who in the past couldn't distinguish the Polls from the Poles they parked their stolen shopping carts next to up to that point in their worthless lives. But this guy promised them a life and by golly we'll try this vote for money gig he's come up with....Plus to insure he gets support and in so doing he makes the enviro nutz happy to follow in stride, he immediately rewards son to fail green companies with gov tax dollars under the guise of stimulating the economy.

O and his circus is so bad, so obvious in it's nature, and such a failure as far as helping the nation recover, it's pathetic......Yet here we go again with another smug arrogant backer trying to play his lil' game.

Chapter 2 of this thread should be, tell us what O has done to deserve a second term......But he won't and it's just as well because on 11/6, the nation will tell that story when O is run out of town.

And as far as the elitist theory of more parties being the solution, well gee how does that work if no one votes for the 3rd party???????? How many elections need to be thrown away trying to prove a point??????? If Ron Paul or Johnson or Mickey Mouse can establish a ways and means to get elected then DO IT.......Voting 3rd party and trying to accomplish something without a viable chance is akin to wishing in one hand and taking a shit in the other, all you end with is a handfull of shit.

 

[Old Texan]

I'll list one. Post #62.
You can find the rest.

Tommy, do you notice the style resembles the old homeless somewhere guy with the canoe avatar?

 

[Paul65k]

Why do you guys continue to respond to this obvious left wing plant......this guy has no boating interests and is targeting RDP due to our high post counts....these are the same guys that call into to conservitive talk shows just to try and discredit thinking people.

I'll bet if we did some research we would find this is a previously banned troll who has wormed his/her way back in through some backdoor......ignore him and he'll go away

 

[boatdoc55]

Why do you guys continue to respond to this obvious left wing plant......this guy has no boating interests and is targeting RDP due to our high post counts....these are the same guys that call into to conservitive talk shows just to try and discredit thinking people.

I'll bet if we did some research we would find this is a previously banned troll who has wormed his/her way back in through some backdoor......ignore him and he'll go away

Exactly while I have not thrown my 2 cents in!!!! He ain't any rural Orygon person I care to know. He's one of them 3 city asshats that f$$k this state up for us true Oregon people.

 

[wsuwrhr]

And as far as the elitist theory of more parties being the solution, well gee how does that work if no one votes for the 3rd party???????? How many elections need to be thrown away trying to prove a point??????? If Ron Paul or Johnson or Mickey Mouse can establish a ways and means to get elected then DO IT.......Voting 3rd party and trying to accomplish something without a viable chance is akin to wishing in one hand and taking a shit in the other, all you end with is a handfull of shit.

Agreed, love it or hate it, we have an established two party system.

As much as I wish Racey and others were right, it is obvious to be false.

Brian

 

[Old Texan]

Why do you guys continue to respond to this obvious left wing plant......this guy has no boating interests and is targeting RDP due to our high post counts....these are the same guys that call into to conservitive talk shows just to try and discredit thinking people.

I'll bet if we did some research we would find this is a previously banned troll who has wormed his/her way back in through some backdoor......ignore him and he'll go away

Pesrsonally, I get bored with the same old same old dialogue with the same folks. New meat so to speak......His bait was very transparent and it was fun to see how long he could hold back his true self. Inspite of his arrogant retorts it was readily apparent he didn't have the game to hang. Once in while we get a good one. This guy showed his colors way early in the game.

If nothing else his feigned indignation and scolding was worth a good laugh.....And he talked like a real educated feller which probably will impress the hell out of WhiteWorks if he stops over slumming the PF. It excites a lot of folks. He'll give DJ wood and Tyro will give the guy 10 off on his next set of floor mats for the Prius, 25 if he goes with the matching pink steering wheel cover.

 

[squeezer]

Oh Man, Where do I start...

I'll be true to my task and look at the linked post.

"Here are a couple things I just saw Romney say.

1) "I will not blame my predecessor".

2) " I will increase drilling permits on Federal lands on day 1"

3) " I will start a review of coal production to ID And increase clean coal production"

4) " I will begin a review and repair of obamacare to fix the cost issues involved" (paraphrase)

Just a partial list."

Two out of three of theses are in the tone of "I am not President Obama" Scratch 1 & 4. 2 and 3 are future looking energy policy positions that you may or may not agree with. (I agree with #2 but really would like to see development of a cleaner burner source than coal)

Taking a step back I have yet to see anybody list qualifications based on Governor Romneys record, either as governor or the head of Bain. He himself should be throwing specific details out at every turn except the specifics, when really scrutinized don't look that good. For as many examples at Bain you could find that are positive there are probably an equal amount that is negative. The Governorship doesn't play all that well either... 30% approval rating and currently loosing that state by double digits are the first clue. The legislative record includes over 800 vetos (they have line item in that state). Wont go on as shooting the guy down was not and is not my intention.

Now for the personal attacks... Somebody through out the term indignant, sorry if I cam across that way, I'm not anything of the kind. Amused and having fun maybe...not indignant. (On Edit, I was an am indignant about the rape dialog going on in this election. Not aimed at anybody here and not an over reaction based on my core values)

Some of you think I am a plant, or a coached troll, "obviously not a boat guy".

Boat guy credentials are pretty light compared to many around here... I learned to ski behind a G3 40 years ago, the family graduated to a Kona (460/Pump) in the 80's. The first boat I owned was a Laveycraft (bought from George Nordling, the Lavey circle boat champ from years back) Sold it in a moment of weakness and started the below thread when looking to undo that mistake. (Will pick up a 24' Schiada in the future, I don't finance toys and all cash reserves are going into rental properties right now)

http://www.riverdavesplace.com/forums/showthread.php?76928-Boat-advice

Not a heavy duty boat guy by CA/AR/NV standards but pretty committed by Portland (3 month season, 65 degree water) standards.

Some question my understanding of business. I was lucky enough to pick a field of study that has a comfortable pay scale. Have worked for 4 different fortune 500 companies, 2 tech start-ups, a few other ventures in between and have found myself a comfortable spot as an Innovation Director for an injection molding company. I know my way around a job site, machine shop, factory floor, and board room. Spend 12 or so weeks a year in Europe and Asia on business and can speak from personal experience on job creation, out sourcing, and in sourcing. 15 years crossing the Pacific every 3 months broadens ones perspective a bit. I have started and ran 2 very small business, one consulting based one real estate based. Don't do much consulting anymore but the real estate thing is working very very well right now. I probably fund 4-5 man years of labor per year in that venture and by that metric class myself as a job creator.

I am in the middle of the road as far social issues and believe the folks on the extremes are nut jobs. I have voted both Republican and Democrat and would like to believe you vote for the person not the party. That belief has softened over the last few election cycles however.

Lastly I did not start this thread to talk about President Obama, if it matters I voted for him the last time (I Liked John McCain, he lost my vote with Palin). And have decided to vote for him this time, due in small part to the dialog here. I still really do not understand who Romney is and what his values are and really don't think may people here do either. Hell with his change of position on so many things during the campaign I don't see much evidence that HE knows what his values are.

Regards

Chris

 

[was thatguy]

Whatever you say genius.
I have a friend just like you.
Can talk and write paragraph after paragraph and not actually say a damned thing.
Yet THINKS he is all knowing.
I am glad you created this thread.
It reveals as well as anything just how full of shit you lefties are.

You start it under false pretense, ignore or catagorize all responses, and really just show yourself to be a self righteous POS attempting to "correct" any response.
Kind of like your hero in office.
Thankfully you and yours will be rendered insignificant in a few short days.

 

[Racey]

Agreed, love it or hate it, we have an established two party system.

As much as I wish Racey and others were right, it is obvious to be false.

Brian

One person, one vote at a time, or we just give up and continue doing exactly what we have been doing by unenthusiastically voting for "the lesser of two evils", and we'll continue getting what we've been getting out of washington, sounds like a well thought out solution..... Just keep voting 2 parties even though we don't really agree with their policies as much as some other candidates from a 3rd party, but since he can't win i won't vote that way..... The end goal of voting 3rd party is not necessarily to get a 3rd party elected, it's to try and sway the 2 parties to earn those votes back by addressing those policies and principles...... We all know that it's the independent middle voters that win elections, make one of the 2 parties come earn those votes, or they can ignore those issues and continue loosing hundreds of thousands of possible supporters.

This is chess, not checkers people.

 

[squeezer]

Whatever you say genius.
I have a friend just like you.
Can talk and write paragraph after paragraph and not actually say a damned thing.
Yet THINKS he is all knowing.
I am glad you created this thread.
It reveals as well as anything just how full of shit you lefties are.

You start it under false pretense, ignore or catagorize all responses, and really just show yourself to be a self righteous POS attempting to "correct" any response.
Kind of like your hero in office.
Thankfully you and yours will be rendered insignificant in a few short days.

Funny is it easier to attack me than to answer the original question...?

Again I am still after verify examples from Governor Romney's history that justifies the level of support he has garnered... The responses here have not done that to a standard that meets any sort of criteria.

This is going to be a close election, current news pundits say it is very likely that Governor Romney will win the popular vote and loose the electoral vote. The Senate will be closely divided with a very slight Democratic majority. The house will be just the opposite. The idea that half of the voters in this country will be rendered insignificant under these conditions points out a flaw in the system.

Attack me, don't attack me. Label me as a lefty, liberal, socialist whatever. Beat President Obama up don't beat him up... It really doesn't mean much in a political forum two layers deep in a boating web sight.

What does mean something in as trivial and transparent as this thread is that I have certainly learned something about myself, and possibly learned something about some of you.

知彼知己，百戰不殆；不知彼而知己，一勝一負；不知彼，不知己，每戰必殆

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle."

 

[Old Texan]

Oh good grief, is someone ever full of themself......Hey it's just my opinion, but anyone who can't see through what O is and can't see the actual condition of the nation and O's responsibility for it beyond their own portfolio has missed the boat.

Question for squeezer......It's 1980, Carter or Reagan?

It's my personal opinion Romney is and will be the second coming of Reagan, which to me is a good thing and can't come soon enough. Reagan turned the country around after the last panty wasted socialist wannabe upset the applecart.

Fuck the search for magic beans in Romney's pockets, he's actaully done things in life that have been successful, he's a leader which is evident from just listening to him, and he actually understands what he's talking about based on nothing more than the fact he can actually clearly communicate without a teleprompter or ear bud. Anybody makes these same claims about O is smoking magic beans.

Go ahead and vote for O, you know you will regardless if Romney had a magic wand that could make the debt and other issues disappear. But somewhere down the road if by chance O wins, you WILL kick yourself in the asse 'cause if you got it, he'll get it.......:rolleyes

 

[Old Texan]

One person, one vote at a time, or we just give up and continue doing exactly what we have been doing by unenthusiastically voting for "the lesser of two evils", and we'll continue getting what we've been getting out of washington, sounds like a well thought out solution..... Just keep voting 2 parties even though we don't really agree with their policies as much as some other candidates from a 3rd party, but since he can't win i won't vote that way..... The end goal of voting 3rd party is not necessarily to get a 3rd party elected, it's to try and sway the 2 parties to earn those votes back by addressing those policies and principles...... We all know that it's the independent middle voters that win elections, make one of the 2 parties come earn those votes, or they can ignore those issues and continue loosing hundreds of thousands of possible supporters.

This is chess, not checkers people.

Racey, I just can't get my head around the phiosophy of wasting votes. But I don't think the nation can survive O-Term II and you seem to think it irrelevant.......

My whole argument against your theory is still, this is the most important election in our lifetime and O must be defeated. Bush vs Clinto, sure I'll chase a vote on a solid 3rd party candidate, but his election is far to crucial to take any kind of chance.

On a side note, I did vote for some Libertarian state judges in hopes of getting the court headed in that direction. But I can't chance going that way for the big seat.

 

[AzGeo]

Hope it meets your approval as a 'valid answer' to your original question. #1, Mitt has taken 'family wealth' and made it into a larger pile of cash, while staying out of jail, and being philanthropic along the way. #2, he led and managed the Olympics and that venture was one of only a few that MADE MONEY in the past couple of decades. #3, Romney was elected as Governor of Mass. inspite of being a GOP in a 'moderately left leaning' state. He was able to work with all the people there, no matter what party as long as the work was for the benefit of the state. Just like everyone who walks this earth, he is only a man. At this time I am looking for a man (or woman) who can 'at least work with all parties', so it seems to me that Mitt has that point and a couple more on his resume'. He has a 'track record' in business (of all kinds) and we need to use proven business leadership to change the course of our economy, right now.

 

[squeezer]

Question for squeezer......It's 1980, Carter or Reagan?
p:rolleyes

I was not of age to vote in 1980 but that was the first election that I was old enough to understand what was going on. I hated Carter with a passion and actually recorded RR's inaugural on cassette tape using a wired microphone. The country needed somebody like Regan and even 30 years later I believe he was the right choice but during those 30 years the wisdom of Carters policies have also become apparent. I believe Carters push for energy independence through conservation was valid. Short term economics were not his strong suite but Reagan didn't do all that much better the first few years. He had to implement the biggest tax increase in recent times in 1982 to stop the decline. And lets not discount the fact that Regan was the worst president history for debt.

http://www.businessinsider.com/who-increased-the-debt-2012-9

Foreign policy wise I cant tell the difference between any of the administrations going back to Johnson. The face they put on it may be difference but one level down its all pretty much the same.

Actual numbers aside we liked Regan... he made us feel good about being Americans in spite of worse policies and worse real results than what we talking about now.

There is no discounting the importance of that.


Right back at you: Its 1992 Bush or Clinton ? (Why) (For the record I did not vote for Clinton the first time...)

 

[squeezer]

Hope it meets your approval as a 'valid answer' to your original question. #1, Mitt has taken 'family wealth' and made it into a larger pile of cash, while staying out of jail, and being philanthropic along the way. #2, he led and managed the Olympics and that venture was one of only a few that MADE MONEY in the past couple of decades. #3, Romney was elected as Governor of Mass. inspite of being a GOP in a 'moderately left leaning' state. He was able to work with all the people there, no matter what party as long as the work was for the benefit of the state. Just like everyone who walks this earth, he is only a man. At this time I am looking for a man (or woman) who can 'at least work with all parties', so it seems to me that Mitt has that point and a couple more on his resume'. He has a 'track record' in business (of all kinds) and we need to use proven business leadership to change the course of our economy, right now.

Ding Ding Ding....

This is as good of an answer as I was hoping for, no real specifics but hell it did not mention our current president once and that all I was really looking for.

This was a fools errand, from the start I believed there was no way to factually answer the question as asked. The politics of this country have been reduced to the rallying cry of "Look how bad other guy sucks..." and running to the far right or far left to placate your base.

Remember Vote Early and Vote Often

Chris



And just so the guys that want to brand me a lefty have some fodder... Here is 5 minutes of Republican dialog that we all should be able to agree on.

[video=youtube;ByzxFQSlyDA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByzxFQSlyDA&sns=fb[/video]

 

[Old Texan]

I was not of age to vote in 1980 but that was the first election that I was old enough to understand what was going on. I hated Carter with a passion and actually recorded RR's inaugural on cassette tape using a wired microphone. The country needed somebody like Regan and even 30 years later I believe he was the right choice but during those 30 years the wisdom of Carters policies have also become apparent. I believe Carters push for energy independence through conservation was valid. Short term economics were not his strong suite but Reagan didn't do all that much better the first few years. He had to implement the biggest tax increase in recent times in 1982 to stop the decline. And lets not discount the fact that Regan was the worst president history for debt.

http://www.businessinsider.com/who-increased-the-debt-2012-9

Foreign policy wise I cant tell the difference between any of the administrations going back to Johnson. The face they put on it may be difference but one level down its all pretty much the same.

Actual numbers aside we liked Regan... he made us feel good about being Americans in spite of worse policies and worse real results than what we talking about now.

There is no discounting the importance of that.


Right back at you: Its 1992 Bush or Clinton ? (Why) (For the record I did not vote for Clinton the first time...)

I voted for Bush Sr and I'd do it again. Clinton grew government too much and was party along with the GOP led congress causing the Dot.com fiasco. Clinton worked across the aisle but to me he was coupled to a poor GOP group.

I'm not sure Bush Sr would have been a lot better domestically in his second term as he was visibly slipping from what Reagan had started, but on foreign policy he was better than Clinton. Clinton set a lot of precendents for today's issues with trade imbalance and allowing the Chinesse to get an upper hand. Bush and Reagan before him were far better in this area inspite of Perot's sucking sound. This was a tough call on which was better/worse during their combined terms. Both left a lot of baggage to be cleaned up.

Back to Carter, his creation of the Dept of Energy to me was a true disaster and one we still are fighting today. He was far and away the worst foreign policy POTUS of modern times.

 

[was thatguy]

Funny is it easier to attack me than to answer the original question...?

Again I am still after verify examples from Governor Romney's history that justifies the level of support he has garnered... The responses here have not done that to a standard that meets any sort of criteria.

This is going to be a close election, current news pundits say it is very likely that Governor Romney will win the popular vote and loose the electoral vote. The Senate will be closely divided with a very slight Democratic majority. The house will be just the opposite. The idea that half of the voters in this country will be rendered insignificant under these conditions points out a flaw in the system.

Attack me, don't attack me. Label me as a lefty, liberal, socialist whatever. Beat President Obama up don't beat him up... It really doesn't mean much in a political forum two layers deep in a boating web sight.

What does mean something in as trivial and transparent as this thread is that I have certainly learned something about myself, and possibly learned something about some of you.

知彼知己，百戰不殆；不知彼而知己，一勝一負；不知彼，不知己，每戰必殆

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle."

Well know this champ.
I was reading Sun Sui (Sp) before you were in HS.

 

[Racey]

Racey, I just can't get my head around the phiosophy of wasting votes.

Neither can I, no vote is a wasted vote.

This can't be the most important election of our lifetimes, because 2016, 2020, and 2024, etc, etc, are going to also be the most important elections of our lifetimes, just as 2000, 2004, and 2008 were They can't ALL be the most important

 

[squeezer]

Clinton grew government too much and was party along with the GOP led congress causing the Dot.com fiasco. Clinton worked across the aisle but to me he was coupled to a poor GOP group.
.

With respect OT I cant find data to back this statement up...

http://economistsview.typepad.com/e...-capita-government-spending-by-president.html

(The debunking in the middle of this thread refers to how Obama compares not Clinton specifically which I was looking for)

 

[elcajones]

Ding Ding Ding....

This is as good of an answer as I was hoping for, no real specifics but hell it did not mention our current president once and that all I was really looking for.

This was a fools errand, from the start I believed there was no way to factually answer the question as asked. The politics of this country have been reduced to the rallying cry of "Look how bad other guy sucks..." and running to the far right or far left to placate your base.

Remember Vote Early and Vote Often

Chris



And just so the guys that want to brand me a lefty have some fodder... Here is 5 minutes of Republican dialog that we all should be able to agree on.

[video=youtube;ByzxFQSlyDA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByzxFQSlyDA&sns=fb[/video]

A fools errand indeed.

 

[Old Texan]

With respect OT I cant find data to back this statement up...

http://economistsview.typepad.com/e...-capita-government-spending-by-president.html

(The debunking in the middle of this thread refers to how Obama compares not Clinton specifically which I was looking for)

Not talking about spending overall, talking about government jobs. Bureaucracy if you will....Cut the military on one hand, and add bureacrats on the other. No as bad as O, but typical Dem none the less as a Rpub Congress kept him in check somewhat.

 

[Old Texan]

Neither can I, no vote is a wasted vote.

This can't be the most important election of our lifetimes, because 2016, 2020, and 2024, etc, etc, are going to also be the most important elections of our lifetimes, just as 2000, 2004, and 2008 were They can't ALL be the most important

Nope, you're wrong.....This election needs to put O out to pasture.

 

[squeezer]

Not talking about spending overall, talking about government jobs. Bureaucracy if you will....Cut the military on one hand, and add bureacrats on the other. No as bad as O, but typical Dem none the less as a Rpub Congress kept him in check somewhat.

Again not consistent with published numbers...

(This is a cut and paste and not verified...)

"According to the U.S. Office of Personnel Management, which tracks the number of employees per year, the data shows that the ?conservatives? for small government are really just big government conservatives. I know that is an oxymoron, but numbers don?t lie.

Let?s start with President Carter.

On December 31st 1976 (Not Carter?s term yet), total nonmilitary personnel was 2,883,000. By December 31st 1980 the end of his term (minus a month), the total in nonmilitary personnel was 2,875,000.

Federal government nonmilitary employees shrunk by 8,000 employees under Carter.

On January 21st, 1981, President Reagan started with 2,875,000 nonmilitary federal employees.

By the end of Reagan?s terms the total number of nonmilitary federal employees was 3,113,000. That is an INCREASE of 238,000

Let?s move on to President George H.W. Bush.

On January 20th, 1989, total federal nonmilitary employment was 3,113,000
by the end of his only term, President George H.W. Bush had 3,083,000 federal nonmilitary employees on the books. That is a REDUCTION of 30,000 employees.

President Bill Clinton came into office with 3,083,000 and by the END of his TWO TERMS he reduced the number of Federal employees to 2,703,000. That is a reduction of 380,000 federal employees.

Now finally, President George W. Bush came into office with 2,703,000 nonmilitary employees and by the time his terms were through, the total nonmilitary federal employees on the books were 2,756,000, which is an INCREASE of 53,000 employees.


TOTAL NONMILITARY EMPLOYEES IN 1980 ? 2,875,000
TOTAL NONMILITARY EMPLOYEES IN 2010 ? 2,840,000

We have 35,000 less nonmilitary employees under President Obama than we had 30 years ago.

"

 

[Racey]

Nope, you're wrong.....This election needs to put O out to pasture.

can't wait to see what you're saying in 4 years. "this is the second most important election in our lifetimes" :rolleyes

 

[The Doctor]

Nope, you're wrong.....This election needs to put O out to pasture.

From my observation, he's far more interested in busting the two-party system than ridding America of the fraud. Fact is, he would welcome another term of him in hopes it would somehow turn the world independent/libertarian/vegetarian/whatevertarian.

 

[Old Texan]

From my observation, he's far more interested in busting the two-party system than ridding America of the fraud. Fact is, he would welcome another term of him in hopes it would somehow turn the world independent/libertarian/vegetarian/whatevertarian.

Mad Maxx becomes reality type deal maybe?:skull

 

[Old Texan]

Again not consistent with published numbers...

(This is a cut and paste and not verified...)

"According to the U.S. Office of Personnel Management, which tracks the number of employees per year, the data shows that the ?conservatives? for small government are really just big government conservatives. I know that is an oxymoron, but numbers don?t lie.

Let?s start with President Carter.

On December 31st 1976 (Not Carter?s term yet), total nonmilitary personnel was 2,883,000. By December 31st 1980 the end of his term (minus a month), the total in nonmilitary personnel was 2,875,000.

Federal government nonmilitary employees shrunk by 8,000 employees under Carter.

On January 21st, 1981, President Reagan started with 2,875,000 nonmilitary federal employees.

By the end of Reagan?s terms the total number of nonmilitary federal employees was 3,113,000. That is an INCREASE of 238,000

Let?s move on to President George H.W. Bush.

On January 20th, 1989, total federal nonmilitary employment was 3,113,000
by the end of his only term, President George H.W. Bush had 3,083,000 federal nonmilitary employees on the books. That is a REDUCTION of 30,000 employees.

President Bill Clinton came into office with 3,083,000 and by the END of his TWO TERMS he reduced the number of Federal employees to 2,703,000. That is a reduction of 380,000 federal employees.

Now finally, President George W. Bush came into office with 2,703,000 nonmilitary employees and by the time his terms were through, the total nonmilitary federal employees on the books were 2,756,000, which is an INCREASE of 53,000 employees.


TOTAL NONMILITARY EMPLOYEES IN 1980 ? 2,875,000
TOTAL NONMILITARY EMPLOYEES IN 2010 ? 2,840,000

We have 35,000 less nonmilitary employees under President Obama than we had 30 years ago.

"

Damn........I'm gonna run down to the polls and see if I can change my vote to O cause I just din't know all this.

Aw shit they're closed!!!!!

Oh well....Drat, I wished I'd a waited now.:skull

 

[was thatguy]

Damn........I'm gonna run down to the polls and see if I can change my vote to O cause I just din't know all this.

Aw shit they're closed!!!!!

Oh well....Drat, I wished I'd a waited now.:skull

Oh well. In my state it won't matter anyway.
But at least I might make a difference with some of the props.

While I do agree with racey on some points concerning the party system, changing it from the top down is not realistic. Any real change to the status quo will be from the bottom up. If you can get a local guy to make it to say Govorner maybe without bending to a party, maybe you might have someone special.
But proving a point or a philosophy at this stage is a total waste and is a vote for O.

 

[wsuwrhr]

Oh well. In my state it won't matter anyway.
But at least I might make a difference with some of the props.

While I do agree with racey on some points concerning the party system, changing it from the top down is not realistic. Any real change to the status quo will be from the bottom up. If you can get a local guy to make it to say Govorner maybe without bending to a party, maybe you might have someone special.
But proving a point or a philosophy at this stage is a total waste and is a vote for O.

Agreed.

 

[wsuwrhr]

can't wait to see what you're saying in 4 years. "this is the second most important election in our lifetimes" :rolleyes

Racey, after this election, if we don't get on track, it won't matter much anyway.

I'll vote your candidate with a smile.

Put in a vote for Romney and see if a businessman can make a change.

Brian

 

[The Doctor]

 

[squeezer]

218 Reasons to vote for Obama... (count em')

Extended child tax credits and marriage-penalty fixes
Created an Advanced Manufacturing Fund to invest in peer-reviewed manufacturing processes
Required economic justification for tax changes
Implemented ?Women Owned Business? contracting program
Changed standards for determining broadband access
Established a credit card bill of rights
Expanded loan programs for small businesses
Extended the Bush tax cuts for lower incomes
Extended the 2007 Alternative MinimumTax patch
Closed the ?doughnut hole? in Medicare prescription drug plan
Expanded the Senior Corps volunteer program
Required insurance companies to cover pre-existing conditions
Gave tax credits to those who need help to pay health premiums
Required large employers to contribute to a national health plan
Required children to have health insurance coverage
Expanded eligibility for Medicaid
Expanded eligibility for State Children?s Health Insurance Fund (SCHIP)
Required health plans to disclose how much of the premium goes to patient care
Established an independent health institute to provide accurate and objective information
In non-competitive markets, forced insurers to pay out a reasonable share of their premiums for patient care
Eliminated the higher subsidies to Medicare Advantage plans
Expanded funding to train primary care providers and public health practitioners
Increased funding to expand community based prevention programs
Reinstated executive order to hire an additional 100,000 federal employees with disabilities within five years.
Increased the Veterans Administration budget to recruit and retain more mental health professionals
Expanded the Veterans Administration?s number of ?centers of excellence? in specialty care
Appointed a special adviser to the president on violence against women
Fully funded the Violence Against Women Act
Directed military leaders to end war in Iraq
Began removing combat brigades from Iraq
Created a military families advisory board
Ended the abuse of supplemental budgets for war
Made U.S. military aid to Pakistan conditional on anti-terror efforts
Opened ?America Houses? in Islamic cities around the globe
Allocated Homeland Security funding according to risk
Created a real National Infrastructure Protection Plan
Increased funding for local emergency planning
Extended monitoring and verification provisions of the START I Treaty
Appointed a White House Coordinator for Nuclear Security
Initiated a grant and training program for law enforcement to deter cyber crime
Improved relations with Turkey, and its relations with Iraqi Kurds
Launched an international Add Value to Agriculture Initiative (AVTA)
Created a rapid response fund for emerging democracies
Granted Americans unrestricted rights to visit family and send money to Cuba
Restored funding for the Byrne Justice Assistance Grant (Byrne/JAG) program
Established an Energy Partnership for the Americas
Expanded the Nurse-Family Partnership to all low-income, first-time mothers
Required new hires to sign a form affirming their hiring was not due to political affiliation or contributions.
Provided affordable, high-quality child care
Recruited math and science degree graduates to the teaching profession
Reduced subsidies to private student lenders and protect student borrowers
Encouraged water-conservation efforts in the West
Increased funding for national parks and forests
Increased funding for the Land and Water Conservation Fund
Encouraged farmers to use more renewable energy and be more energy efficient
Expanded Pell grants for low-income students
Pursued a wildfire management plan
Removed more brush, small trees and vegetation that fuel wildfires
Expanded access to places to hunt and fish
Pushed for enactment of Matthew Shepard Act, which expands hate crime law to include sexual orientation and other factors
Repealed ?Don?t Ask, Don?t Tell? policy
Restored funding to the EEOC and the U.S. Department of Labor?s Office of Federal Contract Compliance Programs
Reformed mandatory minimum sentences
Created a White House Office on Urban Policy
Fully funded the Community Development Block Grant (CDBG)
Established program to convert manufacturing centers into clean technology leaders
Established ?Promise Neighborhoods? for areas of concentrated poverty
Worked toward deploying a global climate change research and monitoring system
Funded a major expansion of AmeriCorps
Created a Social Investment Fund Network
Bolstered the military?s ability to speak differentlanguages
Appointed the nation?s first Chief Technology Officer
Provided grants to early-career researchers
Worked to overturn Ledbetter vs. Goodyear
Created a national declassification center
Appointed an American Indian policy adviser
Created new financial regulations
Increased funding for land-grant colleges
Banned lobbyist gifts to executive employees
Signed a ?universal? health care bill
Created new criminal penalties for mortgage fraud
Required 10 percent renewable energy by 2012
Released oil from Strategic Petroleum Reserve
Raised fuel economy standards
Invested in all types of alternative energy
Enacted tax credit for consumers for plug-in hybrid cars
Asked people and businesses to conserve electricity
Required more energy-efficient appliances
Created a ?Green Vet Initiative? to promote environmental jobs for veterans
Created job training programs for clean technologies
Required states to provide incentives for utilities to reduce energy consumption
Supported high-speed rail
Supported airline service in small towns
Invested in public transportation
Equalized tax breaks for driving and public transit
Considered ?smart growth? in transportation funding
Shared environmental technology with other countries
Doubled federal spending for research on clean fuels
Provided grants to encourage energy-efficient building codes
Increased funding for the Environmental Protection Agency
Raised the small business investment expensing limit to $250,000 through the end of 2009
Extended unemployment insurance benefits and
temporarily suspend taxes on these benefits
Supported network neutrality on the Internet
Reversed restrictions on stem cell research
Killed Osama bin Laden
Doubled funding for the Manufacturing Extension Partnership, a program that encourages manufacturing efficiency
Included environmental and labor standards in trade agreements
Created an international tax haven watch list
Made permanent the Research & Development tax credit
Required automatic enrollment in 401(k) plans
Required automatic enrollment in IRA plans
Created a consumer-friendly credit card rating system
Created a $60 billion bank to fund roads and bridges
Required full disclosure of company pension investments to employees
Provided easy-to-understand comparisons of the Medicare prescription drug plans
Invested in electronic health information systems
Phased in requirements for health information technology
Required that health plans utilize disease management programs
Required providers to report measures of health care costs and quality
Held hospitals and health plans accountable for disparities in care
Implemented and funded proven health intervention programs
Prevented drug companies from blocking generic drugs
Allowed Medicare to negotiate for cheaper drug prices
Worked with schools to create more healthful environments for children
Improved recruitment of public health workers
Mandated insurance coverage of autism treatment
Fully funded the Combating Autism Act and Federal Autism Research Initiatives
Doubled federal funding for cancer research
Increased participation in cancer-related clinical trials
Fully funded the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA)
Set a national goal to provide re-screening for all 2-year-olds for developmental disorders
Commissioned a study on students with disabilities and their transition to jobs or higher education
Set goals and timetables for implementing Section 503 of the Rehabilitation Act
Created a best practices list for private businesses in accommodating workers with disabilities
Launched educational initiative for employers on tax benefits of hiring employees with disabilities
Reduced the threshhold for the Family and Medical Leave Act from companies with 50 employees to companies with 25 employees
Provided a $1.5 billion fund to help states launch programs for paid family and medical leave
Required employers to provide seven paid sick days per year
Streamlined the Social Security disability approval process
Expanded Veterans Centers in rural areas
Established standards of care for traumatic brain injury treatment
Made the Veterans Administration a national leader in health reform
Reduced the Veterans Benefits Administration claims backlog
Instituted electronic record-keeping for the Veterans Benefits Administration
Expanded housing vouchers program for homeless veterans
Launched a supportive services-housing program for veterans to prevent homelessness
Expanded the Family Medical Leave Act to include leave for domestic violence or sexual assault
Fully funded debt cancellation for heavily indebted poor countries
Created a fund for international small and medium enterprises (SME)
Launched robust diplomatic effort with Iraq and its neighbors
Provided $30 billion over 10 years to Israel
Limited Guard and Reserve deployments to one year for every six years
Ended the ?Stop-Loss? program of forcing troops to stay in service beyond their expected commitments
Fully and properly equipped troops
Created a Civilian Assistance Corps that would organize private sector professionals to help in times of need
Included humanitarian international missions in long-term budgeting
Reviewed weapons programs
Modernized ships and invested more in small vessels
Set standards for when the government should hire defense contractors
Restored the government?s ability to manage contracts by rebuilding our contract officer corps
Created a system of incentives and penalties for defense contracts
Establish a Global Education Fund
Strengthened the Proliferation Security Initiative (PSI) aimed at stopping spread of weapons of mass destruction
Organized successful Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT) Review Conference in 2010
Expanded federal bioforensics program for tracking biological weapons
Developed a comprehensive cyber security and response strategy
Mandated standards for securing personal data
Required companies to disclose personal information data breaches
Worked to persuade the European Union to end credit guarantees to Iran
Seek to negotiate a political agreement on Cyprus
Restructured and streamlined USAID
Increased the size of the foreign service
Urged China to stop manipulation of its currency value
Pressed China to end its support for regimes in Sudan, Burma, Iran and Zimbabwe
Created a public ?Contracts and Influence? database
Required Cabinet officials to host Internet town hall meetings
Conducted regulatory agency business in public
Promoted more pre-school education
Expanded Early Head Start and Head Start
Reformed No Child Left Behind
Doubled funding for Federal Charter School Program and require more accountability
Addressed the dropout crisis by giving schools incentives for more dropout prevention
Created Teacher Residency Programs that will send teachers to high-need schools
Expanded teacher mentoring programs and provide incentives for more planning time
Promoted innovative ways to reward good teachers
Simplified the application process for financial aid
Increased the number of high school students taking college-level courses
Created incentives for tree planting and promote carbon sequestration
Improved water quality
Regulated pollution from major livestock operations
Strengthened federal environmental justice programs
Increased funding for organic and sustainable agriculture
Partnered with landowners to conserve private lands
Created a community college partnership program
Increased funding for progams that conserve lands and habitat for select species such as the Osceola turkey
Supported wetlands protection
Promoted economic development in Mexico
Supported repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA)
Vigorously pursued hate crimes and civil rights abuses
Signed the Deceptive Practices and Voter Intimidation Prevention Act into law
Supported regional innovation clusters
Helped low-income areas get phone and Internet service
Created a Homeowner Obligation Made Explicit (HOME) score for mortgage comparisons
Increased the supply of affordable housing throughout metropolitan regions
Invested in transitional jobs and career pathway programs
Fully funded the COPS program
Improved emergency response plans
Capped interest rates on payday loans and improve disclosure
Expanded public/private partnerships between schools and arts organizations
Improved climate change data records
Supported improved weather prediction program
Offered prizes for advances in consumer technology
Encouraged contests and programs to interest students in science
Increased research opportunities for college students
Strengthened the levees in New Orleans
Directed revenues from offshore oil and gas drilling to increased coastal hurricane protection
Shook loose federal money for rebuilding the Gulf Coast

 

[Tinkerer]

HA HA HA HA HA
DRINK SOME MORE KOOLAIDE
OBUMMER lackey.

This guy is just one of the reasons the USA is in trouble.

Blind support for a stupid communist.

ME - just another business owner.

 

[Tinkerer]

And just ONE reason NOT to vote for OBUMMER - HE IS BANKRUPTING THIS COUNTRY.

GO INTO THE LIGHT.

 

[The Doctor]

Sorry but your list is flawed. Taxmageddon is headed our way because #8 is simply not true. More democrat lies. I couldn't read after the lies were loud and clear.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/48674247/How_Much_Will_It_Cost_You_If_Bush_Tax_Cuts_End_A_Lot

 

[AzGeo]

Established an Energy Partnership for the Americas, I just could not hold back my laughter. As YOU have stated many times "worthless without proof", and what kind of effect have these 'actions' done in the past 3 1/2 years ? Verifiable GOOD or BAD RESULTS ? I did look over the entire list and I didn't see "the list of paid CZARS that are able to give Arizona a bad time, but can't even begin to work on the economic problems".

 

[The Doctor]

What a shame that you spent a dozen or more pages saying "give me proof" and then you post up that joke of a list.

You have less interest in the truth than MSNBC does about Benghazi.

 

[was thatguy]

I think he mistitled it.
218 reasons NOT to vote O is what he meant.

 

[squeezer]

A cut and paste from the net to take a shot at the 17 reasons not to vote for him above it. I don't like some of them either...

This one is going to be close.. Feel as good about this election as hitting a 16 against a face card in Vegas. You might win you might loose, but you would rather be playing a different hand.

For the business men on the board who think Romney is their savior I say good luck either way, from my perspective our recovery is going to continue at a slow rate no matter who wins this election...

 

[The Doctor]

For the business men on the board who think Romney is their savior I say good luck either way, from my perspective our recovery is going to continue at a slow rate no matter who wins this election...

That would be me and my clientele. We already saw what a failure your hero was while he blamed prior administrations and campaigned his entire term - except when he was giving stand down orders as our men died or selling firearms to drug-lords, where our men died or giving our tax dollars to his campaign contributors.

Please remember your hero begged for this job. He promised the world in an effort to get it and he thought he had a plan but he failed. It's really that simple. If he did have a clue, the budget he submitted to congress probably have garnered at least one democrat's vote but it didn't. That's how far off your boy is. Clueless doesn't begin to describe him. Now he wants us to vote for "Revenge." Can you explain that one?

No pal, this is the great divider. He's taken racism to new levels, actually asked all black people to vote for him (can you imagine Romney asking for all white peoples' vote? Don't bother, he has far too much class and no interest in dividing this country. Every single businessman I know is ready for real change from your hero's agenda. Every single one!

 

[squeezer]

That would be me and my clientele. We already saw what a failure your hero was while he blamed prior administrations and campaigned his entire term -

Sounds like you guys need a better business model... Think about it, if Obama can't blame Bush you can't blame Obama. There are a lot of people making a lot of money everyday. have you ever considered the fact that it is not survival of the fittest but survival of the most adaptable?

You admit to seeing what a failure he was/is OK thats fair. What did you do with that knowledge that nearly 50% of this country doesn't have? Since I am dumb for thinking he deserves a bit more time to point things in the direction I feel most comfortable with how on earth can I even be smart enough to pay my bills? Better yet how on earth have I managed to just about double my equity position in the last four years? I must be some sort of idiot to believe what I do.

If a business was supported by the to good to be true building/housing/refinancing bubble that burst under GW and you are mad at President Obama for not being able to bring that bubble back and more importantly have not adapted to the reality that that business is not coming back... You should pray to god that Obama does get elected because at least he will protect the social safety net that is going to keep you from starving to death. And yea its my tax dollars that are going to pay for that... and further more I don't mind. I have been flat broke to the point of being hungry, it sucks. I don't think anybody in this country should be hungry. I have lost family members to treatable conditions because they did not have health coverage and the condition went past the point of no return before they went to the doctor. I think universal health care should be a constitutional right. (And its good business) I have seen the difference a high quality education can make to the life of a raunchy orphan with a mechanical aptitude who realized working in a body shop and driving truck along with healthy student loans could get him through Engineering... Education is the magic bullet, and not just college, not everybody needs to go to college but everybody should have that option. As well as apprenticeships and training programs for all the other skills and trades that we need to be competitive.

Demonize Obama all you want but remember that you are not defined by what other people get (weather you think they deserve it or not) You are not defined by what you have as that can disappear in the flash of a fire or the splash of a wave. You are defined by the relationships you make and the people you choose to help along the way.

Call it Lefty, call it Liberal, call it what you want. I know I would not be here without help from others and cant imagine not having the desire to pay that debt forward.

 

[Old Texan]

Good grief, post 143 sounds like O himself.....skull

If nothing else squeezer, you've led a full life and done it all from the sounds of things.

Sounds like you share O and his mentor/possible biological father, Frank Davis' views on a socialistic state being the answer to things. Why will it work here when it's failed everywhere else? Human nature won't allow for such a thing, it will always be abused and cause even more class separation and stagnation. That's the path O wants to take, thinking he can make it work of course, he's a really smart fella, in his own mind anyway, and believes he can "Do It".....

 

[AzGeo]

Business owners can be 'the fittest and the most adapable', but there is no excuse for our own President to be putting up so many obstacles in the way of US business. Why has he ordered his Attorney General to go after Arizona ? Won't the new Az laws be ajudicated in the courts without Federal intervention ? He tells his followers that he is 'moving the US towards cleaner energy', but no one can just stop doing business one way and change directions the next day. It's not "let's start making a change", he's just created a 'war on US energy' and we are all paying for it, today and in the future. His business model comes directly from his college days, when you need more money JUST RAISE the TUITION, no matter who or how it effects the people.........

 

[Paul65k]

Business owners can be 'the fittest and the most adapable', but there is no excuse for our own President to be putting up so many obstacles in the way of US business. Why has he ordered his Attorney General to go after Arizona ? Won't the new Az laws be ajudicated in the courts without Federal intervention ? He tells his followers that he is 'moving the US towards cleaner energy', but no one can just stop doing business one way and change directions the next day. It's not "let's start making a change", he's just created a 'war on US energy' and we are all paying for it, today and in the future. His business model comes directly from his college days, when you need more money JUST RAISE the TUITION, no matter who or how it effects the people.........

Think about it George; This guy spent his entire life on "The Big Nipple" in one way or another.....and he has spent his first 4 years as POTUS making the "Nipple" bigger!!!

 

[squeezer]

Business owners can be 'the fittest and the most adapable', but there is no excuse for our own President to be putting up so many obstacles in the way of US business. Why has he ordered his Attorney General to go after Arizona ? Won't the new Az laws be ajudicated in the courts without Federal intervention ? He tells his followers that he is 'moving the US towards cleaner energy', but no one can just stop doing business one way and change directions the next day. It's not "let's start making a change", he's just created a 'war on US energy' and we are all paying for it, today and in the future. His business model comes directly from his college days, when you need more money JUST RAISE the TUITION, no matter who or how it effects the people.........

I spend 12 plus weeks a year in Asia on business. 3-4 of those 12 weeks are spent in Guangdong China. This is in the heart of South China and pretty much the outsourced manufacturing center of the world. The business lounge in the hotel we stay in is on the 19th floor. Of the close to 100 days I have stayed in that hotel I have been able to see the ground from the 19th floor exactly twice... the air quality is so bad you cant see the ground 60 meters down. Thats why this matters. I bet there are folks on this board who remember being sent home from school for "smog days" in Riverside in the 70's... CARB is a militant pain in the ass by anybodys standard but the air in SoCal is cleaner now than then with what 3-4 times the miles driven. CAFE standards were supposed to kill performance cars as we know them. A base level modern Vette will run circles around any big block Vette of the muscle era and get 3X the millage doing it (Except maybe an L88... all hail the L88). Things don't change unless there is an outside force to change them. Its not easy and some get left behind, hell thats to soft a language. Its brutal and bloody and some literally don't make it out alive but its necessary and unstoppable.

The Arizona situation is ridiculous on both sides of the argument... Take a run like that at a Chicago politician and you don't expect retaliation... I don't believe its right, think it should be above the office of the president but the old saying of never bring a knife to a gunfight has to mean something here.

 

[Old Texan]

I spend 12 plus weeks a year in Asia on business. 3-4 of those 12 weeks are spent in Guangdong China. This is in the heart of South China and pretty much the outsourced manufacturing center of the world. The business lounge in the hotel we stay in is on the 19th floor. Of the close to 100 days I have stayed in that hotel I have been able to see the ground from the 19th floor exactly twice... the air quality is so bad you cant see the ground 60 meters down. Thats why this matters. I bet there are folks on this board who remember being sent home from school for "smog days" in Riverside in the 70's... CARB is a militant pain in the ass by anybodys standard but the air in SoCal is cleaner now than then with what 3-4 times the miles driven. CAFE standards were supposed to kill performance cars as we know them. A base level modern Vette will run circles around any big block Vette of the muscle era and get 3X the millage doing it (Except maybe an L88... all hail the L88). Things don't change unless there is an outside force to change them. Its not easy and some get left behind, hell thats to soft a language. Its brutal and bloody and some literally don't make it out alive but its necessary and unstoppable.

The Arizona situation is ridiculous on both sides of the argument... Take a run like that at a Chicago politician and you don't expect retaliation... I don't believe its right, think it should be above the office of the president but the old saying of never bring a knife to a gunfight has to mean something here.

Is there a point in that first paragraph other than the poor air quality in China? We're selling them the fuel and resources to do what they are doing yet we hear few complaints about getting them to stop. One of the biggest gripes I have with enviro fanatics is they don't look far beyond the nation's borders to do anything. China is a cesspool yet we do nothing to push for them to clean up their act.

Our technologies are working and the US is far cleaner and will continue towards maintaining that record. But what O does with unrealistic legislation and using the EPA as a tool to control industry is completely wrong. Like with many other things, he's using energy as a political weapon and it will cost him tomorrow.

 

[shueman]

That would be me and my clientele. We already saw what a failure your hero was while he blamed prior administrations and campaigned his entire term - except when he was giving stand down orders as our men died or selling firearms to drug-lords, where our men died or giving our tax dollars to his campaign contributors.

Please remember your hero begged for this job. He promised the world in an effort to get it and he thought he had a plan but he failed. It's really that simple. If he did have a clue, the budget he submitted to congress probably have garnered at least one democrat's vote but it didn't. That's how far off your boy is. Clueless doesn't begin to describe him. Now he wants us to vote for "Revenge." Can you explain that one?

No pal, this is the great divider. He's taken racism to new levels, actually asked all black people to vote for him (can you imagine Romney asking for all white peoples' vote? Don't bother, he has far too much class and no interest in dividing this country. Every single businessman I know is ready for real change from your hero's agenda. Every single one!

Just about covers it...:rolleyes

 

[squeezer]

Is there a point in that first paragraph other than the poor air quality in China? We're selling them the fuel and resources to do what they are doing yet we hear few complaints about getting them to stop. One of the biggest gripes I have with enviro fanatics is they don't look far beyond the nation's borders to do anything. China is a cesspool yet we do nothing to push for them to clean up their act.

Our technologies are working and the US is far cleaner and will continue towards maintaining that record. But what O does with unrealistic legislation and using the EPA as a tool to control industry is completely wrong. Like with many other things, he's using energy as a political weapon and it will cost him tomorrow.

The point is, and I did a very poor job of getting it across, China is not going to develop the technology to clean up the air in this decade anymore than our major cities were during the industrial revolution. Its starts with us, we have ride our way out of this situation on the back of technology that we develop because we have to to continue to do business. This is not a 4 year process, this is not an 8 year process. We are 25 years away from seeing the benefits of that work maybe a few less if we get lucky. We have exactly ONE way to deal with China and thats by changing consumption habbits. Tarrifs dont work, monetary sanctions don't work, idle threats don't work. Our most important vote is with our dollars. You want to change China (and the situation here at home) overnight... Stop buying products made in China today, this can't be politically mandated as thats financial suicide. It has to be at the consumer level and we have to be diligent about it. Oddly enough if we did that well enough I wouldn't have a job... Not my current one anyway. We blame Washington, we blame Wall street, but the real problem is on main street. We say we want good jobs here at home while listening to Rush Limbaugh on our way to Wallmart. We say we want fiscal responsibility out of our governments but invent an entire economy based on spending the so called equity in our homes. (Yea there were Washington and Wall street factors that helped that along, but ultimately the decision is made by the individual)... And worse much much worse we actually piss and wine about our president because he has not helped us "recover". We are recovered... This is it. if you are not able to make money doing what you are doing right now...do something else. Obama didn't save you, Romney cant save you, and the rest of us while generous and kind cant feed you forever. Here is my very simple guidline for future success. If you derive your living from an industry that requires people to borrow money to partake in it, look for something different. If your main strategy for improving your fiscal position is to bitch about the occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania while waxing nostalgic about the good old days under George Bush... you are phuched. You are taking a cash advance on your reality check and the lender is a shark.