A.O.C Healthcare is a "right"

[was thatguy]

Thank You for that...

The horror stories of the Canadian system are usually centered around the urgency of whatever procedure you may need.

Went to school at the UofS, was playing a game of hockey in my Jr Year and stepped into a guy wrong. Tore a miniscus pretty bad... Bad enough that the flap would fold over and lock my leg up. ( After dropping me to the ground of course...) Got things diagnosed, met with the Surgeon and we were 8 months out for surgery. I was not happy about that but hey that was the only option. Four months later I was in a truck accident and broke a bone fragment off in the ankle of the other leg... Met with the same surgeon who said that it had to come out ASAP. When the swelling went down they went in and did BOTH procedures... One was urgent was was not, the Dr made the decisions and I am not sure I could have asked for any more.

So yea let’s go ahead and school me on Canadian health care...

I’ve already stated I have no personal experience with Canadian health care.
Why would I?

I can say that your experience is (thankfully) 180 degrees out for the most part from what my Canadian coworkers relate to me.

 

[Uncle Dave]

Wait times are obviously a function of indicated need.

The Dr needed actionable imaging immediately and got it immediately.

And he is a retired 72 year old without special coverage.

Awesome for your FIL

Wait times seem to be a function of need and access to both the tech, and the specialist - seems like things aligned for him.

UD

 

[squeezer]

Deb had emergency MRIs same day at UC Davis when we would notice strange behavior due to her brain tumors.
When I tell Canadians about our journey through the cancer maze they are usually incredulous.

About 20 years ago my mom was diagnosed with colon cancer. A few weeks later my mother in law was diagnosed with breast cancer. Mom here in Oregon and MIL in Saskatchewan. Mom was 62 without any form of health coverage. MIL had standard Socialized coverage. Mom was dead in 6 months, MIL is heading home from the recovery room with my wife right now.

I am not going to pretend that the lethality rates of the two forms of cancer are compareable but what I will say is early detection and quick follow-up would have given Mom the fighting chance MIL had. You see she had been complaining about bowel problems for many years. The lack of coverage and finances prevented her from getting help.

 

[was thatguy]

About 20 years ago my mom was diagnosed with colon cancer. A few weeks later my mother in law was diagnosed with breast cancer. Mom here in Oregon and MIL in Saskatchewan. Mom was 62 without any form of health coverage. MIL had standard Socialized coverage. Mom was dead in 6 months, MIL is heading home from the recovery room with my wife right now.

I am not going to pretend that the lethality rates of the two forms of cancer are compareable but what I will say is early detection and quick follow-up would have given Mom the fighting chance MIL had. You see she had been complaining about bowel problems for many years. The lack of coverage and finances prevented her from getting help.

Sorry to hear that. Sincerely.

What do you see as the solution?
It seems obvious that Saskatchewan is quite different than Canadian health care as a whole.
Much like the fact that Deb could get zero helpful treatment in Redding as compared to Sacramento.

 

[boatdoc55]

Really? You speak for the entire USA?

Well then, there is me, you certainly do NOT speak for me, I am pretty sure there are AT LEAST 500 people on this website whom you do not speak for either....

I don't give a FUCK about people who are irresponsible with childcare or pregnancy or their health. Forcing others to see the world as you wish it to be is going to get you fucking killed.

That is a dictatorship, not freedom. Not the principles that this country was founded on, and what "I" was raised on.

Soon enough I am sure with tech that is advancing, you will be able to donate as much of your income as you like, to whatever makes you happy.

Until that time, please, sincerely, take your attempts to FORCE me to pay for YOUR guilt about your station/crimes/humanitarianism bullshit and shove them deep up your ass.

Bravo Bravo Bravo

 

[RodnJen]

Bravo Bravo Bravo

Nutswing much?

 

[boatdoc55]

Nutswing much?

How many old people did you throw out of their 50 year house today??? Burn any Bibles?? How many babies did you kill today, 3, 4 maybe 8 or 9 between you and squeeze?? Did you make sure you were pointed at Mecca when you did your prayers today?? Fricken idiot.

 

[RodnJen]

How many old people did you throw out of their 50 year house today??? Burn any Bibles?? How many babies did you kill today, 3, 4 maybe 8 or 9 between you and squeeze?? Did you make sure you were pointed at Mecca when you did your prayers today?? Fricken idiot.

Howard Jarvis was in commercial real estate, just like yor daddy. It was never about keeping old people in their homes. You may not know it but daddy sure did.

Edit: my bad, that was actually directed at theTub.

 

[SBMech]

Howard Jarvis was in commercial real estate, just like yor daddy. It was never about keeping old people in their homes. You may not know it but daddy sure did.

That is a pretty bold statement, do you have proof his parents were slumlords?

Baseless accusations only hurt us all, I know you will be with us if shit goes down Rod, but damn, do you really feel that different from the rest of us?

D comments aside and I know you want different things from the future, but shit man, don't you want your kids to grow up with freedom?

 

[Flying_Lavey]

This is really pretty simple folks...

Ask yourself a few questions:

First, are You willing to let people die in Emergency room parking lots.

Yes or No .... ????

If Yes, then this conversation is over.

If No then here is the next question...

Who pays for that care now?

This one is open to some discussion but I bet we could all agree that whatever formulas, ratios of taxes to private plans, etc, etc that we’re thrown out there the ultimate answer would be WE DO.

If you can agree to that point we can move on to the next question.

Are we getting good value for the $$$ spent?

Now is where opinions can differ as judging quality and quantity of care depends on chosen metrics with respect to both costs and outcomes.

I suspect that healthcare spending as a percentage of GDP would be easy enough to agree on... If there is a more substantive indicator of costs please suggest what it is and we can refine the conversation.

As far as outcomes as a success metric I suspect, based on posts in the lounge... That many of you only care about the cost of your Viagra prescription and the quality of your 3rd wife’s fake tits. Don’t need Viagra and have not had the opourtunity to examine the quality of all that many of your wives boobs... So unless Dave let’s us start posting better pictures let’s use infant mortality rates and expected lifespan to judge outcomes...

With that to get us started please list all developed countries that spend more $$$ per capita on healthcare than we do.

I'm not going to continue to go through and read all the BS to make sure if this has been covered or not so if it has, I apologize.

Do some research on child birth and the drastic rise in C-section births over the last few decades. It's only been the past 10 years (less than, we'll just use that as a nice round number for the discussion) that there has been a connection made and a direct correlation made between the incredible increase in use of pitosin (spelling?) And other induction techniques and the increase of C-sections. It's been shown that doctors and hospitals will push a C-section as it allows them to bill for more money, gets moms and babies in and out of birthing facilities faster, and it allows them to fit births into "their" schedule. Problem is, that is not the way the body is designed to give birth which leads to far higher chances of complications and much higher death rates.

Now I know you like charts, and sources cited, etc, etc... But I don't have time to locate all that. Go to a hospital that has received a baby friendly certification that is not an enormous metropolitan hospital and talk to a few labor and delivery nurses. Not the doctors. They still get paid per patient and many have their head in the sand.

Infant mortality rate is NOWHERE NEAR a good indicator of quality of health care in this country for overall ranking as per this discussion. I think it can be used to show how greed and the dark financial side of the health care industry can jeopardize ones health.

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[squeezer]

I'm not going to continue to go through and read all the BS to make sure if this has been covered or not so if it has, I apologize.

Do some research on child birth and the drastic rise in C-section births over the last few decades. It's only been the past 10 years (less than, we'll just use that as a nice round number for the discussion) that there has been a connection made and a direct correlation made between the incredible increase in use of pitosin (spelling?) And other induction techniques and the increase of C-sections. It's been shown that doctors and hospitals will push a C-section as it allows them to bill for more money, gets moms and babies in and out of birthing facilities faster, and it allows them to fit births into "their" schedule. Problem is, that is not the way the body is designed to give birth which leads to far higher chances of complications and much higher death rates.

Now I know you like charts, and sources cited, etc, etc... But I don't have time to locate all that. Go to a hospital that has received a baby friendly certification that is not an enormous metropolitan hospital and talk to a few labor and delivery nurses. Not the doctors. They still get paid per patient and many have their head in the sand.

Infant mortality rate is NOWHERE NEAR a good indicator of quality of health care in this country for overall ranking as per this discussion. I think it can be used to show how greed and the dark financial side of the health care industry can jeopardize ones health.

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So let me get this right.

You are saying infant mortality rates are skewed in the USA because of the profit motive inherent in the system... So we SHOULDNT use this metric to judge the effectiveness of the system????

You are going to have to help me out here a bit.

 

[squeezer]

Sorry to hear that. Sincerely.

What do you see as the solution?
It seems obvious that Saskatchewan is quite different than Canadian health care as a whole.
Much like the fact that Deb could get zero helpful treatment in Redding as compared to Sacramento.

The solution starts with a complete and total rejection of the Pills/Procedures/Profits approach we have now. By default health providers have no incentive to provide “Health”. Healthy people don’t make them any money. ( There are exceptions to this, the Kaiser-Permanete model comes to mind). Insurance companies want to collect premiums and limit care... Where in this model does the health of the individual drive the decision making process?

Start here.

 

[wallnutz]

And the government is going to change this how? You aren’t just going to get rid of big pharma, they are in to many pockets, government pockets. The hospitals are still going to have to make money to stay a float. Dr’s need incentives to want to further their education to become more specialized, same with specialty nurses.

 

[RodnJen]

That is a pretty bold statement, do you have proof his parents were slumlords?

Baseless accusations only hurt us all, I know you will be with us if shit goes down Rod, but damn, do you really feel that different from the rest of us?

D comments aside and I know you want different things from the future, but shit man, don't you want your kids to grow up with freedom?

To answer your question, yes I want them to grow up with freedom and opportunity. I think my idea of it is just a little different than yours, not a lot, but a little.

Oh, and my remarks to boatoc55 were misdirected.

 

[thetub]

Howard Jarvis was in commercial real estate, just like yor daddy. It was never about keeping old people in their homes. You may not know it but daddy sure did.

Edit: my bad, that was actually directed at theTub.

blah blah blah. . let me direct my piss on yore face...

its meant to keep peoples hard earned money in their pockets and out of the hands of yore 4 families controlling the state.

keep asking who you married to in those 4 families or related to or are you just a brainwashed drooling imbecile ?



watch the video pea brain. our city is a subset of this controlled by a few corrupt families seen it first hand...

 

[Flying_Lavey]

So let me get this right.

You are saying infant mortality rates are skewed in the USA because of the profit motive inherent in the system... So we SHOULDNT use this metric to judge the effectiveness of the system????

You are going to have to help me out here a bit.

I didn't say effectiveness. I said quality or care. I think that one stat skews the metric far too much to incorporate it into a global comparison. That single statistic is not representative of someone that goes in for extreme flu symptoms. That kind of situation effects neither infant mortality nor does it truly have an impact of average lifespan.

My point really being, like just about any set of statistics, you cannot choose 1 a couple points to indicate the situation of an entire industry or sector. It must all be looked at in a complete manner.

Also, the for-profit causes I was referring to before is not present throughout the system. It's more prevelent in different areas and situations. As is the case with anyother industry. It's just this one particular stat is effected by it more so than most anyother in the medical industry from the research I have read and been educated on.

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[was thatguy]

blah blah blah. . let me direct my piss on yore face...

its meant to keep peoples hard earned money in their pockets and out of the hands of yore 4 families controlling the state.

keep asking who you married to in those 4 families or related to or are you just a brainwashed drooling imbecile ?



watch the video pea brain. our city is a subset of this controlled by a few corrupt families seen it first hand...

That’s what Rod agrees with.

 

[squeezer]

I didn't say effectiveness. I said quality or care. I think that one stat skews the metric far too much to incorporate it into a global comparison. That single statistic is not representative of someone that goes in for extreme flu symptoms. That kind of situation effects neither infant mortality nor does it truly have an impact of average lifespan.

My point really being, like just about any set of statistics, you cannot choose 1 a couple points to indicate the situation of an entire industry or sector. It must all be looked at in a complete manner.

Also, the for-profit causes I was referring to before is not present throughout the system. It's more prevelent in different areas and situations. As is the case with anyother industry. It's just this one particular stat is effected by it more so than most anyother in the medical industry from the research I have read and been educated on.

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Noted...

Pick another quantifiable metric and discuss it.

 

[Uncle Dave]

We've (actually the province itself) established the waiting rate for a patients MRI is pretty ridiculous in Canada (for everyone other than your FIL) or apparently access based on need which means you don't get access for checkups without the long wait.

Socialized countries simply have less tech and wait times to get to it is much higher than the US where the machines and talent to run them are vast. Both of my wives complained about access to specialists.
Lots of private insurance is sold in Canada to combat this problem.

It'd be interesting to see what the wait is for a robotic surgery procedure lats I checked a few years ago Toronto had one DaVinci and a doctor flew in and out of the US to perform surgeries with it.

I was in one and had a kidney removed within 2 weeks of diagnosis. I got a cat the same day, an MRI the next day and surgery the following week.

These are even more expensive than MRIS and it takes years of training to use.



Now - I agree we pay way to much for this- but if you pay in , and you need it - it is there.
This is the main upside to the US system.



UD

 

[500bbc]

Howard Jarvis was in commercial real estate, just like yor daddy. It was never about keeping old people in their homes. You may not know it but daddy sure did.

Edit: my bad, that was actually directed at theTub.

So do you call the assessor every year and demand to pay what ever the current market value assessment is on your home?

 

[RodnJen]

So do you call the assessor every year and demand to pay what ever the current market value assessment is on your home?

No. Had a meeting yesterday and the split-roll legislation is polling 50/50 right now. The rhetoric in the coming months will be interesting.

 

[regor]

No. Had a meeting yesterday and the split-roll legislation is polling 50/50 right now. The rhetoric in the coming months will be interesting.

How did your group like the catering?

 

[500bbc]

No. Had a meeting yesterday and the split-roll legislation is polling 50/50 right now. The rhetoric in the coming months will be interesting.

"Helen Hutchison, president of the League of Women Voters California, said Proposition 13’s effects on schools have been devastating. Forty years ago, California schools were rated the top of the country and now they are rated near the bottom, she said."

You're so fucking stupid you think throwing more money down a rat hole will magically solve the problem.


Put your money where your mouth is, round up your fellow turds, and all you pay tax at the current assessment values you fuckin hypocrite.

Fucking idiot.

 

[thetub]

No. Had a meeting yesterday and the split-roll legislation is polling 50/50 right now. The rhetoric in the coming months will be interesting.

so now the big bad rich commercial owners pay and Rod skates free yet again ?

you know Rod not everyone is Trump status and are barely making their mortgages and repair costs but Fu-k them right ?

cmon Rod go pull a mortgage out buy a building deal with tenants,repairs, evictions and...

 

[500bbc]

so now the big bad rich commercial owners pay and Rod skates free yet again ?

you know Rod not everyone is Trump status and are barely making their mortgages and repair costs but Fu-k them right ?

cmon Rod go pull a mortgage out buy a building deal with tenants,repairs, evictions and...

He's a fucking drooling idiot, he actually thinks that increased taxes are not ultimately paid by all consumers, hitting the poor the hardest.

Fucking hypocritical fool.

 

[regor]

"Helen Hutchison, president of the League of Women Voters California, said Proposition 13’s effects on schools have been devastating. Forty years ago, California schools were rated the top of the country and now they are rated near the bottom, she said."

You're so fucking stupid you think throwing more money down a rat hole will magically solve the problem.


Put your money where your mouth is, round up your fellow turds, and all you pay tax at the current assessment values you fuckin hypocrite.

Fucking idiot.

OR

Stop flooding it with illegals and terminate every bi-lingual teacher in the state.

OR

Stop handing out ridiculous pensions for votes

OR

Stop building bullshit trains to pay back campaign donors

OR

Stop giving healthcare to non speaky English invaders

OR

Stop spending your money on your bullshit climate change

OR

Stop enormous administrative salaries in your worthless edumication system

 

[thetub]

He's a fucking drooling idiot, he actually thinks that increased taxes are not ultimately paid by all consumers, hitting the poor the hardest.

Fucking hypocritical fool.

they triple costs on everything then they complain about homelessness and affordable housing.

its beautiful ...

 

[thetub]

OR

Stop flooding it with illegals and terminate every bi-lingual teacher in the state.

OR

Stop handing out ridiculous pensions for votes

OR

Stop building bullshit trains to pay back campaign donors

OR

Stop giving healthcare to non speaky English invaders

OR

Stop spending your money on your bullshit climate change

OR

Stop enormous administrative salaries in your worthless edumication system

View attachment 733813

Reeg house around the corner near me just sold for 1.2 mil and the only ones to qualify for were a cop and a school teacher.

all the nieghbors were scratching their heads as to who the heck paid that much for this neighborHOOD

teacher ended up buying it. its all about the kids....

fu-king joke .

 

[Hullbilly]

OR

Stop flooding it with illegals and terminate every bi-lingual teacher in the state.

OR

Stop handing out ridiculous pensions for votes

OR

Stop building bullshit trains to pay back campaign donors

OR

Stop giving healthcare to non speaky English invaders

OR

Stop spending your money on your bullshit climate change

OR

Stop enormous administrative salaries in your worthless edumication system

View attachment 733813

I’ll go with “G” All of the Above

 

[500bbc]

OR

Stop flooding it with illegals and terminate every bi-lingual teacher in the state.

OR

Stop handing out ridiculous pensions for votes

OR

Stop building bullshit trains to pay back campaign donors

OR

Stop giving healthcare to non speaky English invaders

OR

Stop spending your money on your bullshit climate change

OR

Stop enormous administrative salaries in your worthless edumication system

View attachment 733813

RACIST!!!!!!!!

 

[RCDave]

they triple costs on everything then they complain about homelessness and affordable housing.

its beautiful ...

Definition of Stupidity

 

[RodnJen]

OR

Stop flooding it with illegals and terminate every bi-lingual teacher in the state.

OR

Stop handing out ridiculous pensions for votes

OR

Stop building bullshit trains to pay back campaign donors

OR

Stop giving healthcare to non speaky English invaders

OR

Stop spending your money on your bullshit climate change

OR

Stop enormous administrative salaries in your worthless edumication system

View attachment 733813

Your guy won, shit should be handled.

Enforce the immigration laws and implement campaign finance reform and much of your Xmas list goes away.

 

[regor]

Your guy won, shit should be handled.

Enforce the immigration laws and implement campaign finance reform and much of your Xmas list goes away.

My guy controls the direction of Prop 13?

What the fuck is wrong with you................besides being a Libturd?

And you accuse me of hitting the bong?

 

[500bbc]

Your guy won, shit should be handled.

Enforce the immigration laws and implement campaign finance reform and much of your Xmas list goes away.

"Our guy" did win but you American hating turds along with the Rinoturds have been fighting him on all fronts since day one.

Suicidal Fucking Idiot

 

[RodnJen]

"Our guy" did win but you American hating turds along with the Rinoturds have been fighting him on all fronts since day one.

Suicidal Fucking Idiot

“You lie!”

 

[Hullbilly]

“You lie!”

Go Rod Go!

 

[was thatguy]

“You lie!”

 

[500bbc]

“You lie!”

Pinche Idiota
Viva Los Communistas!

 

[pronstar]

You know, healthcare is a right, and the government should absolutely pay for it.

Now that I think about it, the Second Amendment is also a right, and the government should absolutely start buying me guns [emoji106]


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[94Nautique]

Your guy won, shit should be handled.

Enforce the immigration laws and implement campaign finance reform and much of your Xmas list goes away.

Would love to have the laws enforced, but every time we try you leftys go to the 9th circus.

Its a Fuckin joke, democrats are vote whores. No more, no less.

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[Old Texan]

Your guy won, shit should be handled.

Enforce the immigration laws and implement campaign finance reform and much of your Xmas list goes away.

It can't work 'cause the douchebags you elect are like spoiled kids that never learned the grace of losing and working with the winners. No self resect leads to no respect period.....Look in the mirror and you will see the nation's biggest problem and threat to our society staring back at you with a smug blank, deer in the headlights glaze over. Duhhhhhh

500, need another educational translation for the big dummy