87 Ford F250 feedback/ Yea or Nea Inmate Opinions Needed

[Lunatic Fringe]

Agree.... I looked everywhere for that wire.... no way it ever worked without power I wouldn't think. I reckon with all that vibration it could've just shook loose but on both ends? Dang mystery... waiting to hear from builder dude.

Maybe a copper thief who lives within his means.

He'll steal another wire next week.

 

[4Waters]

Here are pics of your P/U from this thread including a zoomed in screenshot from a video. Compare these to what is on the electric choke, it's a little hard to see but looking at the truck now you might be able to see if there was a wire.

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

Here are pics of your P/U from this thread including a zoomed in screenshot from a video. Compare these to what is on the electric choke, it's a little hard to see but looking at the truck now you might be able to see if there was a wire.
View attachment 1394371 View attachment 1394372 View attachment 1394373

Good work but I zoomed all the way in and can see the black ground but due to filter cant make out any other wires.

Edit; I went back zoomed in and actually I think I see where there was no live wire next to Black ground wire with curls.

 

[4Waters]

Good work but I zoomed all the way in and can see the black ground but due to filter cant make out any other wires.

Edit; I went back zoomed in and actually I think I see where there was no live wire next to Black ground wire with curls.

That's what I see how do the spades look on the electric choke on the truck compared to the pics

 

[Willie B]

… I suppose it is possible that you have an issue other than the 12 V wire to your choke…

 

[TimeBandit]

Good work but I zoomed all the way in and can see the black ground but due to filter cant make out any other wires.

Edit; I went back zoomed in and actually I think I see where there was no live wire next to Black ground wire with curls.

Where is the vacuum line to the distributor? Vacuum advance is usually good for more MPG.

 

[mash on it]

Where is the vacuum line to the distributor? Vacuum advance is usually good for more MPG.

Good catch.

Dan'l

 

[bonesfab]

Also edelbrocks have a feature that locks out the secondaries until the choke comes off. So you might have been running around only on the primaries. Choke will not work without 12 volts. And make sure it is 12 volts and not reduced voltage.

 

[lbhsbz]

Where is the vacuum line to the distributor? Vacuum advance is usually good for more MPG.

Its a carburated 460.....it doesn't have MPGs

 

[mash on it]

Its a carburated 460.....it doesn't have MPGs

Wfo or idle, 8 mpg
Been there.

Dan'l

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

Also edelbrocks have a feature that locks out the secondaries until the choke comes off. So you might have been running around only on the primaries. Choke will not work without 12 volts. And make sure it is 12 volts and not reduced voltage.

Hmmmmm.... I guess my question would be why did this choke issue only start now? By that I mean, I never noticed this rough idling the entire winter months when I'd fire up in say 45-50 degrees cold and that choke worked perfectly with a lil blip on gas after exiting garage and back to normal idle. Thats got me most curious.... help me understand that and please do so as if speaking with a 5 year old Thanks!

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

That's what I see how do the spades look on the electric choke on the truck compared to the pics

"Spades?"

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

Where is the vacuum line to the distributor? Vacuum advance is usually good for more MPG.

Thats over my head knowledge... if it has anything to do with pollution restrictions all that was removed by builder/ owner prior to me. But I can tell ya this runs off a single 17 gal tank and Fernando never met a fuel pump he didn't love.

 

[4Waters]

"Spades?"

Sorry, the connections on the choke

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

Its a carburated 460.....it doesn't have MPGs

Just Smiles/ Gal

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

Sorry, the connections on the choke

Terminals look clean if thats your question..... look at me using proper terminology... thanks YouTube

 

[4Waters]

Terminals look clean if thats your question..... look at me using proper terminology... thanks YouTube

How do they look compared to the pics, do the pics look like something is on both when comparing to the choke

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

How do they look compared to the pics, do the pics look like something is on both when comparing to the choke

Sorry my friend... I'm trying to grasp what you are asking but can't get there. If you'd like to try again I'm all ears and will answer best I can.

 

[4Waters]

Sorry my friend... I'm trying to grasp what you are asking but can't get there. If you'd like to try again I'm all ears and will answer best I can.

The pics are hard to see but if you have something to compare to then you might be able to tell if there were 2 wires on the choke

 

[4Waters]

Sorry my friend... I'm trying to grasp what you are asking but can't get there. If you'd like to try again I'm all ears and will answer best I can.

If this in fact one of the 2 connections on the electric choke then you definitely didn't have a wire on it

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

If this in fact one of the 2 connections on the electric choke then you definitely didn't have a wire on it
View attachment 1394912

 

[4Waters]

View attachment 1394924

Definitely didn't have one on before

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

For anyone still wanting to add input heres some feedback/ ideas generated from a Ford 460 forum [First one] Followed by my builders comments after I'd shared that forum comment with him....

OK I see that the choke has two wire connection ... Some chokes are internally grounded, but this choke is externally grounded.. The black wire I believe is a ground and the other terminal is for 12 Volt key on power.. It might have worked all winter as it is choked all the time.. without the 12Volt power wire the choke is not operating (opening)...
The two screws on the side of the bowls are for IDLE fuel mixture only. Once the rpm' are above like 1200 the idle circuit is out of its operation range. That's why you need to achieve a 650 or 700 rpm at idle. Then adjust them as I explained earlier.. If you can't get the idle down to those numbers you have other problems IE. Vacuum leak, stuck linkage or timing.

That’s good info that’s why I think it has something to do with something hitting the linkage or restricting its movement but if you had a vacuum leak, you could actually hear it and it will always be there a vacuum leak doesn’t come and go. It’s constant and if you had a 2000 RPM idol whether you just started it or have been driving it for 100 miles and it’s still at 2000 RPMs that’s the vacuum leak.

Thoughts?.... I'm getting all this feedback to help direct a local Mexican mechanic who works on my neighbors cars outside my building. I'll be having him look under hood some time this week and want to point him in a direction.....

---

 

[Gelcoater]

For anyone still wanting to add input heres some feedback/ ideas generated from a Ford 460 forum [First one] Followed by my builders comments after I'd shared that forum comment with him....

OK I see that the choke has two wire connection ... Some chokes are internally grounded, but this choke is externally grounded.. The black wire I believe is a ground and the other terminal is for 12 Volt key on power.. It might have worked all winter as it is choked all the time.. without the 12Volt power wire the choke is not operating (opening)...
The two screws on the side of the bowls are for IDLE fuel mixture only. Once the rpm' are above like 1200 the idle circuit is out of its operation range. That's why you need to achieve a 650 or 700 rpm at idle. Then adjust them as I explained earlier.. If you can't get the idle down to those numbers you have other problems IE. Vacuum leak, stuck linkage or timing.

That’s good info that’s why I think it has something to do with something hitting the linkage or restricting its movement but if you had a vacuum leak, you could actually hear it and it will always be there a vacuum leak doesn’t come and go. It’s constant and if you had a 2000 RPM idol whether you just started it or have been driving it for 100 miles and it’s still at 2000 RPMs that’s the vacuum leak.

Thoughts?.... I'm getting all this feedback to help direct a local Mexican mechanic who works on my neighbors cars outside my building. I'll be having him look under hood some time this week and want to point him in a direction.....

---

Have you tried the ether trick to locat the leak?

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

Have you tried the ether trick to locat the leak?

Over my head as a non tech/ mechanic type but making a note should this case go that vacuum leak direction. [dont forget my tech/ engine builder said any vacuum leak will be noticeable by sounds it makes as well as rpms staying high during entire cold/ warm operation] My uneducated gut is leaning in the direction of the linkage travel being interfered with at this point but staying very open minded before I sick the mechanic on it. I've learned reading many of these tech forum posts that one can go down a lot of rabbit holes chasing several solution ideas and thankfully this carburetor appears to be a pretty simple unit.

 

[TimeBandit]

The choke should still "set" when cold without any wires at all. the hot wire or key on 12v positive would heat the choke and open it.

Eventually heat from the engine should open the choke that's how chokes work that don't have a heater element in them.

Pressing the accelerator once slowly to the floor then releasing it should set the choke and the fast idle.

Once the engine is hot it no longer needs choke and the idle should come down.

Your complaint was a fast idle on the hot engine so I'm thinking vacuum leak or something sticking on the carburetor like the choke linkage or the secondary butterfly valve...

You need a mechanic with some gray hair to take a look at it.

 

[Gelcoater]

Over my head as a non tech/ mechanic type but making a note should this case go that vacuum leak direction. [dont forget my tech/ engine builder said any vacuum leak will be noticeable by sounds it makes as well as rpms staying high during entire cold/ warm operation] My uneducated gut is leaning in the direction of the linkage travel being interfered with at this point but staying very open minded before I sick the mechanic on it. I've learned reading many of these tech forum posts that one can go down a lot of rabbit holes chasing several solution ideas and thankfully this carburetor appears to be a pretty simple unit.

Is a pretty simple deal.
Ether (quick start spray)

If you spray a little around all the vacuum ports, carb base plate, etc and you have a leak the idle will momentarily iincrease.

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

@Gelcoater @TimeBandit Thanks guys, great input. Yesterday I got my little Mexican dude under the hood. Isidro is 71 and cant be but a bit over 5' tall so I was curious how he'd access my motor. I got home from grocery run and he was nearby finishing up on neighbors car. I grabbed him and left engine running so he could inspect my carb situation. He went to his pickup and grabbed an old paint bucket, flipped it upside down and up he went reaching directly to unscrew my air filter. He knew just what to do setting those two screws up front and then reaching side for idle screw adjustment. He took some time listening to idle rpm rates adjusting those two front screws like YouTube showed me. Ultimately he got idling rpms at 700 which he said is perfect. He revved engine asking me what color if any smoke came out "Blue or Black" ... I like this guys knowledge so far. Then I directed his attention to that electric choke.... he discovered that single black wire actually has power and is not a ground afterall. I showed him that it connects at that black cylinder looking piece over by distributor on other side of engine. He said thats fine but he put his hand on it and said its way too hot placed there and suggested I get an aluminum bracket and move it away from motor to avoid it overheating and failing on me.

So todays question is.... does that make sense to you guys? Or perhaps this is one of my Mexican peoples hustles that I am SO accustomed to after 10 months Ya gotta love the way they've learned over the years to gently wean a few extra dollars out of you. Hookers, dancers, strippers or mechanics.... we gringos are a revenue source and thats just fine by me now that I know the ropes. What do ya think guys.... does that coil looking device that connects to distributor need to be relocated? Thanks as always!

 

[mash on it]

Apparently the coil is functioning, and if it's not leaking oil, I wouldn't worry about it, they tend to run warm to pretty warm. The choke being on that circuit would draw more current than just the coil alone. Crude but effective. Probably let it ride.

Dan'l

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

Apparently the coil is functioning, and if it's not leaking oil, I wouldn't worry about it, they tend to run warm to pretty warm. The choke being on that circuit would draw more current than just the coil alone. Crude but effective. Probably let it ride.

Dan'l

Oh okiedokie... by "Coil" you mean that round black thing the carb sources for power right? I cant recall what old dude told me that does.

 

[4Waters]

Oh okiedokie... by "Coil" you mean that round black thing the carb sources for power right? I cant recall what old dude told me that does.

The coil

 

[TimeBandit]

So the choke is connected to the positive side of the coil I assume.

If the ignition coil has a ballast resistor on the positive side I would not connect the choke there. Some cars actually have a resistor like old Chryslers, some use a wire with built-in resistance in either case you don't have full battery voltage at that location.

But I'm not a Ford guy so I'm not sure how they do it. it's not super critical anyway.

Give it a few weeks and see how his adjustments did.

It sounds like he's old enough to have seen a few.

I would still want a vacuum hose from ported vacuum to the distributor to help the big dog drink a bit less.

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

The coil
View attachment 1395702

Yup that thingy

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

So the choke is connected to the positive side of the coil I assume.

If the ignition coil has a ballast resistor on the positive side I would not connect the choke there. Some cars actually have a resistor like old Chryslers, some use a wire with built-in resistance in either case you don't have full battery voltage at that location.

But I'm not a Ford guy so I'm not sure how they do it. it's not super critical anyway.

Give it a few weeks and see how his adjustments did.

It sounds like he's old enough to have seen a few.

I would still want a vacuum hose from ported vacuum to the distributor to help the big dog drink a bit less.

I'll post a pick of where the hot choke wire meets the coil tomorrow so you can see. Not sure my earlier vids showed that. Good idea to take it out and drive a few times over next week too just to check adjustments effects out.

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

Lets see if this earlier video shows that coil/ choke connection... it did briefly but I'll get a better one tomorrow showing where its attached to coil.

 

[OC Mike]

...He said thats fine but he put his hand on it and said its way too hot placed there and suggested I get an aluminum bracket and move it away from motor to avoid it overheating and failing on me...

So todays question is.... does that make sense to you guys? Or perhaps this is one of my Mexican peoples hustles that I am SO accustomed to after 10 months Ya gotta love the way they've learned over the years to gently wean a few extra dollars out of you. Hookers, dancers, strippers or mechanics.... we gringos are a revenue source and thats just fine by me now that I know the ropes. What do ya think guys.... does that coil looking device that connects to distributor need to be relocated? Thanks as always!

Looks like the coil is in the 'Factory' position which should be ok.
However, done properly, there is no downside to moving it. An Aluminum bracket would help sink some heat.
Sounds like he has done this before. It may be a 'Mexico' thing as I hear it gets HOT there. Coils, that black cylindrical thingy, can fail from heat.
Would I do it? Not sure....

 

[90 Laveycraft]

Lets see if this earlier video shows that coil/ choke connection... it did briefly but I'll get a better one tomorrow showing where its attached to coil.

See that large open port on the bottom front of the carb ??

 

[90 Laveycraft]

See that large open port on the bottom front of the carb ??

Also the rubber plug to the right of it!

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

Looks like the coil is in the 'Factory' position which should be ok.
However, done properly, there is no downside to moving it. An Aluminum bracket would help sink some heat.
Sounds like he has done this before. It may be a 'Mexico' thing as I hear it gets HOT there. Coils, that black cylindrical thingy, can fail from heat.
Would I do it? Not sure....

Yup, that was his comment exactly saying it can fail due to extreme heat. He suggested I buy an extra one to travel with or move it using aluminum bracket. climate is very mild here at shore but he placed his hand on it saying its too hot so I'll consider having him do it before I take any long trips down south where I'd be vulnerable. Just drives around town now or up across border into OC quarterly. Thanks for input!

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

Also the rubber plug to the right of it!

Yup I do... please finish your thought.... Thanks.

 

[TimeBandit]

Yup I do... please finish your thought.... Thanks.

The rubber plug needs replacing it's pretty cracked up.

and the large open pipe might be a vacuum leak.. place your finger over it while the engine is running if it is sucking on your finger. it also needs a rubber cap over it.

That larger pipe is usually connected to the PCV valve which is mounted to one of your valve covers?

 

[ibelio]

The rubber plug needs replacing it's pretty cracked up.

and the large open pipe might be a vacuum leak.. place your finger over it while the engine is running if it is sucking on your finger. it also needs a rubber cap over it.

That larger pipe is usually connected to the PCV valve which is mounted to one of your valve covers?

this is correct

 

[90 Laveycraft]

Yup I do... please finish your thought.... Thanks.

vacuum leaks ...greatly affect carb performance and adjustment.

 

[OC Mike]

Is a pretty simple deal.
Ether (quick start spray)

If you spray a little around all the vacuum ports, carb base plate, etc and you have a leak the idle will momentarily iincrease.

WD40 also works, Most people have it and less lethal.
Same drill as above, spray some around the carb, idle rises, you have a leak.

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

The rubber plug needs replacing it's pretty cracked up.

and the large open pipe might be a vacuum leak.. place your finger over it while the engine is running if it is sucking on your finger. it also needs a rubber cap over it.

That larger pipe is usually connected to the PCV valve which is mounted to one of your valve covers?

I took some poor pics today of these three capped off carb inlets.... any feedback on what they do/ dont do? Sorry too lazy to take filter off. Can get better pic manana if helps... also, whats that inlet back on passenger side of valve cover do? Or more like used to do? Thanks

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

So the choke is connected to the positive side of the coil I assume.

If the ignition coil has a ballast resistor on the positive side I would not connect the choke there. Some cars actually have a resistor like old Chryslers, some use a wire with built-in resistance in either case you don't have full battery voltage at that location.

But I'm not a Ford guy so I'm not sure how they do it. it's not super critical anyway.

Give it a few weeks and see how his adjustments did.

It sounds like he's old enough to have seen a few.

I would still want a vacuum hose from ported vacuum to the distributor to help the big dog drink a bit less.

Heres a pic of where that live choke wire connects to coil... it connects on right side

 

[rrrr]

There's nothing wrong with that coil location. Yeah, they get hot, but millions of Fords have gone hundreds of millions of miles without it failing.

There should be a 3/8" vent type hose from the PCV on the valve cover to a vacuum port on the intake manifold or carb base. You can plug the smaller connector on the PCV valve, it's used for pollution controls you don't have on the engine. It's been so long since I had a vehicle with an Edelbrock carb I barely remember which port it should connect to, it's the biggest one in the middle. Connect the smaller one on the right to the distributor vacuum port, if it has one. I'm not sure about that.

You figured out the 12V power to the choke. I don't recall if the choke mechanism is grounded, making a complete circuit. In the past have run a short ground wire from the connector on the choke body to a carb stud, using a 5/16" ring terminal, to insure a good ground.

Your high idle issue sounds like maybe the choke warmup linkage and cam is balky or the spring isn't doing its job. I use a little white lithium lube spray on that sort of stuff. It won't gum up and attract dirt like WD-40 will.

 

[mash on it]

Heres a pic of where that live choke wire connects to coil... it connects on right side
View attachment 1396300 View attachment 1396301

PCV valve. Positive crankcase Ventilation. Should be hooked up to the larger of the two vacuum ports on the front of the carb.

If the smaller of the two vacuum ports is ported, that should go to the vacuum advance pod on the distributor. It increases timing at light load high vacuum conditions, aka cruising down the freeway.

Dan'l

Edit - @rrrr beat me to it.

 

[Willie B]

… Don’t see how it could’ve legally passed smog in Ca… It’s that’s the way the vacuum was plumbed when you bought it…

 

[mash on it]

… Don’t see how it could’ve legally passed smog in Ca… It’s that’s the way the vacuum was plumbed when you bought it…

It didn't need to. It went to Mexico.
When slop counts for skill.

Dan'l