6 volt or 12 volt in coach

[wallnutz]

if you have a I/2 gallon of water in one jug, and 2 quart jugs of water.... both are 1/2 a gallon.... true 12volt batterys are big and harder to find, my alpine had two of them... you would have to have 4 6volt wired series parrell to equal 2 true deep cycle batterys wired parallel ...

Just run your ego booster a couple hours a day and charge em back up.
I get a lot more life out of two
6 volts then one 12 volt. I can run my heater , fridge, and lights for two solid nights from two 6’s. The one 12 would make it one night and power the fridge part of the next day. That’s with no egg booster.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

like I said, I wanna use my solar, and be able to watch a movie at night off an inverter...I have a 12 chassis battery, and two (new)true deep cycle 6 volt battery's in series...my battery tray has all three in there..I installed a 43'' tv in the front, with a dvd player... and a 32'' with dvd player in the bedroom... they both are hooked up to separate 400 watt in verters… the bed room one works great..ran the tv for 4 hours with hardly any draw off the battery's...I think total is about 200 watts...I have it plugged into the 10 amp cig lighter type that is on the wall in the bed room... there is about a full volt drop at the plug because of the small wire... so when there is 13.4 at the battery's... only 12.4 at the plug... running for 4 hours... it dropped to 12.1 but it was 12.8 at the battery's...on the front tv, I think it's more like 300watt draw.. soon as I turn on both the tv and the dvd player it lowers the power at the plug to in the 11 volt range...laziness is biting me in the ass right now as I know that the inverters need bigger wire, and to be closer to the batterys.. on my new coach, the whole 120v system runs through a 2000 watts inverter,.. so far it works great,.. only time the gen needs to run off grid is to run micro and ac's..

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Just run your ego booster a couple hours a day and charge em back up.
I get a lot more life out of two
6 volts then one 12 volt. I can run my heater , fridge, and lights for two solid nights from two 6’s. The one 12 would make it one night and power the fridge part of the next day. That’s with no egg booster.

I have to disagree..unless you are using one hybred 12volt... one true deep cycle 12volt will have the same rating as as two series 6 volt deep cycle.... but, what I did on my born free was run 2 deep cycle hybred 12 batterys,... had nothing but problems,... yeah, the battery's were guaranteed, and they kept giving me new ones, but what a pain in the ass... every time they dropped to 6 or 7 volts...done...forgetting to shut the coach off when parked would kill the batterys, all the parasitic draw with every thing off would suck the batterys to zero volts after time... so, back to auto zone to change out the batterys

 

[2FORCEFULL]

I have learned this though, there is a lot of self proclaimed wizards when it comes to setting up off grid

 

[2FORCEFULL]

soooo. another thing I learned..the easiest way to get to the battery storage of 2 true deep cycle 12v battery's and cheeper is to go with 4 true deep cycle 6 volt batterys wired series parallel , that's why the rv builders do it that way...it is also said that using 2v batterys is even better...????

 

[2FORCEFULL]

So because it doesn't bother you, it's okay? It's not always a "tiny quiet Honda" either. Music is also subject to the same noise rules as generators. Want to make noise all night? Go somewhere else where it won't annoy anybody or spend the money on a setup that doesn't force others to listen to your needs for convenience. I did...6V batteries in the diesel pusher, by the way for info for the OP. Only way to go for stuff like this.

Have some consideration for others. It's as simple as that.

what you are asking for is consideration and respect... not real common with Californians..they have the idea that they will never see you again, so do what ever they want... true campers know that the unwritten law of quiet time is sun down to sun up...to live off grid, you learn to be awake during those hours...don't need much power when you sleep..

 

[wallnutz]

I have learned this though, there is a lot of self proclaimed wizards when it comes to setting up off grid

Ya I’m no wizard Just life experience. I will never claim I know how it works or that it is the best set up, I just know what works best for my set up. We have camped for 5 days at Coral Pinks without running the generator once and that was with two cold nights that we ran the furnace.
When we do camp when we need power all night we do take in consideration of other campers. That’s why we run the little Yamaha ego booster pointing away from others and blocked by the trailer or coach. Never had one complaint.

 

[Bpracing1127]

6v are old technology. You guys need to get into lithium ion batteries! Eventually all cars will have one and get away from lead acid

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

soooo. another thing I learned..the easiest way to get to the battery storage of 2 true deep cycle 12v battery's and cheeper is to go with 4 true deep cycle 6 volt batterys wired series parallel , that's why the rv builders do it that way...it is also said that using 2v batterys is even better...????

Did you learn that yesterday when I explained it on the last page?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

6v are old technology. You guys need to get into lithium ion batteries! Eventually all cars will have one and get away from lead acid

 

[Wizard29]

Lololol. Complaining about a 60-70 db genset in the desert, while pg&e is allowed to kill hundreds of people, thousands of homes , and 100's of thousands of forests, with no consequences. Liberal tree hugging programmed union sheep at its finest.

Actually, I'm pretty Republican for the most part and try to operate on fairness and just plain common sense. You should try it sometime.

You got shot down pretty good in the other topic just because you refuse to acknowledge the facts and how things actually work. Unfortunately, your opinions do not take precedence over reality.

Over here in this generator/battery topic, it's simply about being considerate of others. It's also about obeying the law. At Glamis which has been my primary place of reference here, running generators after 10PM is prohibited. Some guys choose to ignore that because they claim "it doesn't bother anybody" or "it's the desert." The real reason they do it is because they are inconsiderate of others and they won't spend (or don't have) the money to get a system that can go all night without a generator. I'm happy to call them out on both.

Why should those of us who have been going to Glamis for 30+ years and can appreciate the quiet nights by the fire out there have to tolerate this new breed moving in and changing things? Steve is right. There used to be common courtesy for others. Gone now and it especially shows up in much of the Glamis "live the life" and LAM types. Obey the rules or go somewhere else those rules don't exist and then do what you want.

Or Dave, as was suggested in the other topic, run for office and get things changed. How's that bid for election going?

 

[RCDave]

Actually, I'm pretty Republican for the most part and try to operate on fairness and just plain common sense. You should try it sometime.

You got shot down pretty good in the other topic just because you refuse to acknowledge the facts and how things actually work.

Bullshit. I'm just not programmed by my union employer handlers.

As for genset, I actually tend to agree with you in most camping locations. Like mountains, country side, etc. (My rv has 6 6v's and solar panels to try and minimize gen usage). Just not in places like Dumont, glamis, etc. It's so loud out there, a quiet genset is inconsequential relative to the noise levels.

 

[Waffles]

"Men" complaining about genset noise levels while camping at the desert in their 100k rigs....first world problems lmao

Sent from my FRD-L14 using Tapatalk

 

[rivrrts429]

I’d sleep like a baby if I could hear blower surge outside my window all night [emoji106]

 

[EBT531]

3- 6V 105 Trojans here. Same as others have said, just watch the water levels. I have a kit that links all of the batteries, you stick the hose in a bottle of water and pump the bulb till its hard. Tops off all of the batteries that way vs removing all of the caps etc.

 

[RCDave]

3- 6V 105 Trojans here. Same as others have said, just watch the water levels. I have a kit that links all of the batteries, you stick the hose in a bottle of water and pump the bulb till its hard. Tops off all of the batteries that way vs removing all of the caps etc.

That kit is the bomb. I have one as well. Makes battery service a 1-3 minute affair

 

[pwerwagn]

I guess I dont get WTF everyone does in their campers all day that they need 19 batteries and 10kW of gen?

I have 2 cheap crappy 12V deep cycles, and a 100W solar panel in my Super C. I have only dry camped, NEVER camped anywhere with hookups. We can go ~10 days in the desert/lake/mountains with no generator, and finally the 10/11th day mark is where we need water.

Does everyone just leave lights on all day? Let their kids watch TV for 24 hours straight? I just dont get it. If I wanted to sit inside a little air conditioned area while my kids watch TV, Ill just stay at home.

 

[69hondo]

3- 6V 105 Trojans here. Same as others have said, just watch the water levels. I have a kit that links all of the batteries, you stick the hose in a bottle of water and pump the bulb till its hard. Tops off all of the batteries that way vs removing all of the caps etc.

Do you have a link to said kit?

 

[HitIt]

3- 6V 105 Trojans here.

3? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You could either wire them in parallel for 6V output or series for 18V output. Neither is compatible with run-of-the-mill RV stuff. Is this for an RV or something different?

 

[rivermobster]

I’d sleep like a baby if I could hear blower surge outside my window all night [emoji106]

Clearly you've never camped in Glamis!

 

[Deja_Vu]

Thought I would add this wiring diagram for peeps switching over.

 

[Uncle Dave]

soooo. another thing I learned..the easiest way to get to the battery storage of 2 true deep cycle 12v battery's and cheeper is to go with 4 true deep cycle 6 volt batterys wired series parallel , that's why the rv builders do it that way...it is also said that using 2v batterys is even better...????

Series parallel is the way to go if you can.

A bank made up of separate cell 2Volts throws more lead at it.

UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

6v are old technology. You guys need to get into lithium ion batteries! Eventually all cars will have one and get away from lead acid

Soon....
The recreational market is just now coming up with the proper profiles for lithium on the charge side and the draw side.

Thought I would add this wiring diagram for peeps switching over.

View attachment 702516

The diagram on the left is not optimal.

It would be better balanced if the ground fed to from the lowest battery vs the top.
Set up this way you will kill your first battery.

UD

 

[Bigbore500r]

I guess I dont get WTF everyone does in their campers all day that they need 19 batteries and 10kW of gen?

I have 2 cheap crappy 12V deep cycles, and a 100W solar panel in my Super C. I have only dry camped, NEVER camped anywhere with hookups. We can go ~10 days in the desert/lake/mountains with no generator, and finally the 10/11th day mark is where we need water.

Does everyone just leave lights on all day? Let their kids watch TV for 24 hours straight? I just dont get it. If I wanted to sit inside a little air conditioned area while my kids watch TV, Ill just stay at home.

I hear ya. Our TH has 3 12V costco deep cycles (2 for the toy hauler, one on an isolator that just runs the inverter we installed). Never really suck them down too far. We also have 150 gallon fresh, seems like we bring 1/2 that back after 5 days in the desert. But we pretty much just cook and sleep in the TH, kids watch a movie at night to go to bed. We do have all the lights swapped to LED's. Run the 2000 mini generator for 2-3 hours per day total when making coffee / microwave food. That's about it

 

[Uncle Dave]

Change just a few wires and the whole thing works much better -

balancing charge and drain equally enhances the performance and life of a bank dramatically.

Heres a really good article.

http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html

 

[Uncle Dave]

Not connecting from opposite ends is the single biggest mistake I see in wiring battery banks.
Its the main reason why guys only get a few seasons out of a bank that should be good for an easy 5-8.


There are really 2 "Glamis's" a big weekend experience and a midweek or minor weekend experience.

Going to a big weekend to get a peaceful experience and good nights sleep is laughable.
Sure kill the genset at 10, but the gasoline powered blender RXRS,. quads and rails, trucks and everything else running all night makes gensets seem like white noise generators.

Weekday Glamis /minor weekend glamis can be that serene experience. I love calm cold night by a crackling fire a nip off 5th or a pint and some good ole campfire talking.

On big weekends -
As a power strategy during the day a bunch of tiny gas gensets all running at diff RPM's is lame and noisy
I act as a central station for base loads.
My neighbors covet their spots every trip and basically get a free 10-20 amps - from 7AM-10PM on big weekends.

I plug at least 2-3 nearby units into my diesel genset that just purrs and sips gas providing a hot campsite during the day for everything but remote AC units - but Ive even powered remote AC's before (keep a newborn cool during the day) with my massive baby caterpillar genset that just sips fuel and is piped into my RV gas tank. It runs a constant 1800RPM low and slow regardless of load. Id rather give away the energy than listen to a bunch of little gensets ramping up and down all day every time someone turns on a light.

When the genset shuts down Ive got a 3K inverter (can run microwave) a 6 battery bank and some solar - need to bump the solar though with newer panels and charge controller.



UD

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Run the 2000 mini generator for 2-3 hours per day total when making coffee / microwave food.

Inconsiderate asshole. You probably bring the rats from your neighborhood and release them into other peoples camps too!

 

[Roaddawg]

Soon....
The recreational market is just now coming up with the proper profiles for lithium on the charge side and the draw side.



The diagram on the left is not optimal.

It would be better balanced if the ground fed to from the lowest battery vs the top.
Set up this way you will kill your first battery.

UD

I saw some of the new toy haulers are coming with 1 or 2 12v lithium ion batteries. How do these compare with whats out there now?

 

[2FORCEFULL]

the other law most abused...pack it in pack it out...M Fers come out to the camp areas and just throw their shit everywhere, who the fuc they think is coming to clean up after they leave...?????

Did you learn that yesterday when I explained it on the last page?

I'm still try'n to learn you....

 

[Uncle Dave]

I saw some of the new toy haulers are coming with 1 or 2 12v lithium ion batteries. How do these compare with whats out there now?

Havent see the configs or the prices.
Typically they put the cheapest shit on the planet in terms of chargers and inverter/converters in these things.

UD

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Change just a few wires and the whole thing works much better -

balancing charge and drain is equally enhances the performance and life of a bank dramatically.

Heres a really good article.

http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html


View attachment 702519

here's a question for you,... my desert coach came with a solar panel on the roof with a controller,... running the rear tv and dvd player, the gauge on the controller says about 1.2 amps draw...that's with a 2 plug 400 watt inverter..it has a start up of 800 watts... with the batterys at 13.4... the inverter drops to 13.1v the one in the rear is closer to the converter panel in the rear of the RV...in the front I have a 43'' tv with a separate dvd and the same 400 watt inverter...when I turn on the tv it drops to 10.4 and starts beeping... with it off it's at 13.v...so... the wire is set up for 10 amps..cig plug type.... would I be able to run better with the same wire if I went to a bigger size inverter like say a 750 watt?

 

[Bpracing1127]

From what I have seen the lithium batteries run 24-48 hours no problem and only take a hour to charge with a 200w solar panel. They are also a lot smaller and lighter than normal lead acid

 

[NorCalRiverRat]

I have a question for all you dry camping electrical engineers who brag about how long they can dry camp. it has to do with the grey & black holding tanks. ok so I don't dry camp. I like to take daily showers and use as much water as I feel like. I use the toilet freely, its all going some place else. not sure if I even want to ask but what are you doing with your waste ?

 

[Bigbore500r]

Inconsiderate asshole. You probably bring the rats from your neighborhood and release them into other peoples camps too!

Well they infest the generator, when i fire that bad bitch up they escape and look for new RV's to live in

 

[Uncle Dave]

here's a question for you,... my desert coach came with a solar panel on the roof with a controller,... running the rear tv and dvd player, the gauge on the controller says about 1.2 amps draw...that's with a 2 plug 400 watt inverter..it has a start up of 800 watts... with the batterys at 13.4... the inverter drops to 13.1v the one in the rear is closer to the converter panel in the rear of the RV...in the front I have a 43'' tv with a separate dvd and the same 400 watt inverter...when I turn on the tv it drops to 10.4 and starts beeping... with it off it's at 13.v...so... the wire is set up for 10 amps..cig plug type.... would I be able to run better with the same wire if I went to a bigger size inverter like say a 750 watt?

hmmmm

I dont think upping the inverter at that end will help.

The gauge wire and run length you can get away is determined by the voltage not the size of the inverter at the end of it.
12 volts to the far end needs stout wire what you are describing 10 AMP cig wire isnt going to do it.

That said It sounds like the 400 may be a little small to run the front TV -on top of having a gauge or more too thin on the wire on a long run to the front.

If I had a micro inverter Id loan it to you to try I only have a whopping outback 2000 standing by.
Whose 400? Something like the little morningstar is bitchin.

UD

 

[wallnutz]

I have a question for all you dry camping electrical engineers who brag about how long they can dry camp. it has to do with the grey & black holding tanks. ok so I don't dry camp. I like to take daily showers and use as much water as I feel like. I use the toilet freely, its all going some place else. not sure if I even want to ask but what are you doing with your waste ?

Does a bear shit in the woods? I don’t know, but I do.

 

[Bigbore500r]

[QUOTE="LargeOrangeFont, post: 3158199, member: 17700"]Inconsiderate asshole. You probably bring the rats from your neighborhood and release them into other peoples camps too![/QUOTE]

If they bitch about the 2200 ryobi......i drag out the Generac 4000

 

[Bigbore500r]

I have a question for all you dry camping electrical engineers who brag about how long they can dry camp. it has to do with the grey & black holding tanks. ok so I don't dry camp. I like to take daily showers and use as much water as I feel like. I use the toilet freely, its all going some place else. not sure if I even want to ask but what are you doing with your waste ?

Don't let your mother in law take 20 minute showers, pee outside when you can (desert camping) and watch the kids when they use water. Dump when you get home or at a dump station. Some guys eventually overflow the grey, and will dig a hole / crack the valve and let it drain a bit (which is illegal...) but if its just shower water it isn't the worst thing in the world. They do have expansion tanks with wheels you can dump into when your main tanks get full, but screw that - i'm not hosing those out after using them lol

 

[Uncle Dave]

I have a question for all you dry camping electrical engineers who brag about how long they can dry camp. it has to do with the grey & black holding tanks. ok so I don't dry camp. I like to take daily showers and use as much water as I feel like. I use the toilet freely, its all going some place else. not sure if I even want to ask but what are you doing with your waste ?

"I like to take daily showers and use as much water as I feel like. I use the toilet freely,"

Is not compatible with long duration dry camping.

Some easy strategies that require minimal sacrifice that can help are -

1. Men -Piss outside, solids only in the shitter.
2. Invest in a grey to black, which allows more flexibility.

After the easy stuff - its discipline and doing a sink /washcloth bath vs a shower.



UD

 

[Uncle Dave]

Steve-

If you put the 2nd micro-converter at the backend you can run 120 vs 12 to the front on the smaller gauge wire.

 

[Uncle Dave]

From what I have seen the lithium batteries run 24-48 hours no problem and only take a hour to charge with a 200w solar panel. They are also a lot smaller and lighter than normal lead acid

The filling station (panels) and the reservoir (lithium batt) are two diff things.

You are going to yield about 60 amps at 12V a day from 200-watt panel/s with a really good controller divide
that by 8 you get 7.5 amps an hour - so you aren't going to do a whole lot of charging with an hour of sun.

YOu have an nice sized light reservoir in terms of amp hours that has a longer cycle life, and isnt susceptible to puekert
They are very light and smaller, but very tricky to charge and if you get it wrong and charge too fast or much- you get a meltdown not a water boil off.
If you put too high a load on them too long - you get a meltdown not a boil off.

NO doubt bitchin, but the off the shelf combos today are just getting there.

UD

 

[2FORCEFULL]

so lets see if I'm even close to right... to convert amps to watts, amps x volts = watts....correct???
so if that's right... to convert watts to amps... watts divide by volt = amps... correct..???

so, if I have a 400 watt inverter, connected to 10 amps of 12v power...400 watt divide by 12v is 25 amps???... or should it be 400 divide by 120v which is only 2.5 amps...????… so if I double the inverter to say 800 watts, it would be able to pull 5 amps...???

so again...using that small of an amp draw,..plugged into a 10 amp socket... should work??? and does the 800 watt inverter use the same amount of power as the 400 watt with the same thing plugged in? also, the inverter is just for the tv'

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Steve-

If you put the 2nd micro-converter at the backend you can run 120 vs 12 to the front on the smaller gauge wire.

what my goal is , is to be able to run the front tv without the gen on,..and use the 10 amp power that is already there...I know the right way to do this would be to run a big enough gauge wire straight to the battery.... but the power needs to go to the cabinet above the dash,... and it would be a bitch to do...for some reason.... I'm thinking that the two tv 12v plugs are wired to the same fuse....15 amp....but I don't have a schematic for this coach... but again...if only using 2 or 3 amps, that would be only 240 or 360 watts...???? correct... so it should work... the 400 watt has an 800 watt surge with 400 watts continues

 

[2FORCEFULL]

hmmmm

I dont think upping the inverter at that end will help.

The gauge wire and run length you can get away is determined by the voltage not the size of the inverter at the end of it.
12 volts to the far end needs stout wire what you are describing 10 AMP cig wire isnt going to do it.

That said It sounds like the 400 may be a little small to run the front TV -on top of having a gauge or more too thin on the wire on a long run to the front.

If I had a micro inverter Id loan it to you to try I only have a whopping outback 2000 standing by.
Whose 400? Something like the little morningstar is bitchin.

UD

it's an ever start that I bought at Walmart...the wire shows 13.1 volts... if I put too much amp load on the wire it would get hot and pop the fuse... right??? what i'm thinking is that the 400 watt is not a real measured 400 watt... but that would be only be 2.5 amp.... correct??

 

[Uncle Dave]

so lets see if I'm even close to right... to convert amps to watts, amps x volts = watts....correct???
so if that's right... to convert watts to amps... watts divide by volt = amps... correct..???

so, if I have a 400 watt inverter, connected to 10 amps of 12v power...400 watt divide by 12v is 25 amps???... or should it be 400 divide by 120v which is only 2.5 amps...????… so if I double the inverter to say 800 watts, it would be able to pull 5 amps...???

so again...using that small of an amp draw,..plugged into a 10 amp socket... should work??? and does the 800 watt inverter use the same amount of power as the 400 watt with the same thing plugged in? also, the inverter is just for the tv'

400 watts @ 120 V =3.3 amps

3.3 amps At 120 V "costs" your 12V battery bank 33 of its amps to drive that 3.3 amp 120 load - at 100% efficiency which no inverter is.

You have to have the wire sized correctly at each end.

I dont have a wire length amperage chart handy to see what gauge would carry X amps to eth front of your rig @ 120.

UD

 

[2FORCEFULL]

400 watts @ 120 V =3.3 amps

3.3 amps At 120 V "costs" your 12V battery bank 33 of its amps to drive that 3.3 amp 120 load - at 100% efficiency which no inverter is.

You have to have the wire sized correctly at each end.

I dont have a wire length amperage chart handy to see what gauge would carry X amps to eth front of your rig @ 120.

UD

hang on, I have to figure out a way to make my wrong answer right......lol...so what you are saying is I would need a bigger than 33 amp 12v fuse??

 

[Uncle Dave]

hang on, I have to figure out a way to make my wrong answer right......lol...so what you are saying is I would need a bigger than 33 amp 12v fuse??

if your 120V load was larger than 3.3 amps yup. Fuse and cable size.

The pull off the 12 battery bank is 10X @ 120V12 - plus the losses the cables induce, and the inverter loss + puekert.

UD

 

[DaveC]

You need a hotel

I don’t know about these other guys but my two limiting factors are food and booze

Lol

I have a question for all you dry camping electrical engineers who brag about how long they can dry camp. it has to do with the grey & black holding tanks. ok so I don't dry camp. I like to take daily showers and use as much water as I feel like. I use the toilet freely, its all going some place else. not sure if I even want to ask but what are you doing with your waste ?

 

[2FORCEFULL]

I have a question for all you dry camping electrical engineers who brag about how long they can dry camp. it has to do with the grey & black holding tanks. ok so I don't dry camp. I like to take daily showers and use as much water as I feel like. I use the toilet freely, its all going some place else. not sure if I even want to ask but what are you doing with your waste ?

I run a hose over to the guy's RV that ran his gen all night...while he's sleeping I dump my tanks, and on the way out I stop and tell the ranger that he dumped his tanks there...

 

[DaBank]

With all this battery talk does anyone have a connection with Lifeline Batteries?
I need 6 of there 4DL Agm batteries that are $500 apiece. They are 12 volt and are wired for 24 volt for my coach.