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21 Crossfire by Nordic

138

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I just checked it all out. Gave me a good chuckle. I'm not exactly sure what I will be skiing at parker. I might start skiing in the men's marathon, or just stay in the mini. Will you be driving this year?
I think I will ski the mini drive the mens and ladys race and just try and have some fun away from the business. I think you need to go to the men's lol ......Your new boat is very kick ass.
 

twmurray143

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I think I will ski the mini drive the mens and ladys race and just try and have some fun away from the business. I think you need to go to the men's lol ......Your new boat is very kick ass.

Thanks man. My dad and I are really excited about it and I can't wait to put it all together. It's still in the rigging process but its coming along nicely. I am looking forward to this year, and I am glad to hear you will be competing again.
 

138

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Thanks man. My dad and I are really excited about it and I can't wait to put it all together. It's still in the rigging process but its coming along nicely. I am looking forward to this year, and I am glad to hear you will be competing again.

Thanks and I hope you move out of the mini. Good luck with all you have left to do on the new boat. What power are you dropping into the new Nordic?
 

GregG

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Greg, I saw your list and rankings, and you put the 21 crossfire as #5. The fact remains in my mind your just some kook collecting inaccurate "data" for the sake of it and taking bits and pieces of it to match what you think fits the bill. And btw 138 is completely right about that 20 nordic.

blah, blah, blah.....Well wildone, you only got one thing correct. I am a kook, I'll give you that much........:)

Now, shall we have fun and examine the facts?

1. I could give a hoot which of the 5 boats ends up on top over at S+F. I'm just the scribe and a frozen one at that, it's 16 degrees here in NYC
2. I didn't start this thread (it was started 2 years ago) nor did I start the 1200 post "Fastest SOB" S+F thread. I did start the separete 5 boat "Vote Now" thread
3. I'm the one who introduced Nordic, thinking not many S+F'ers even knew it existed and it would be a great boat to add to the conversation
4. The S+F comparison is not MIT/NASA sanctioned, it's the internet. I save the real heavy lifting for my litigation work. That said good data is valuable and fun
5. Each of those 5 S+F boats is equipped with a stock 300XS for power. Go to DBR and you'll see that is 306HP. 138 refuses to believe this but its true
6. Tuff, Progression, Sutphen are production layup boats. Every customer gets the same exact thing and each boat is weighed. Some are bagged, some infused
7. The Bernico F2 Xtreme I can't be sure on, but I am told that the weight on that hull reflects "recreational use" and that feedback is directly from the factory
8. No one at S+F gives a crap about pulling a skier. The thread is about which 21 SOB is "fastest" set up for top speed and still excellent in rough water
9. Let me repeat #8 - No one gives a crap about pulling a skier, at any race location world wide. I had a hard time getting RD to understand that one.

Now, onto your specific Nordic 21 wildone. You said, earlier in this thread that you own a 2008 Nordic SR-21 with "medium layup" for combination use of both ski racing and recreation. I'm fairly confident that your "medium layup" SR-21's hull and deck weight is at least a little below the 1475lbs that RD posted for the Crossfire-21. Would you agree? I thought so.
Garenteed my boat is lighter then a crossfire.

With that in mind and recognizing that the hull bottoms on both the SR-21 and Crossfire-21 are 100% identical I then used your speed of 86MPH in my S+F post.
from what you are describing my SR-21 is as close to what you would get weight wise to a "production boat" I say this because its carbon skin with a fiberglass interior. And when the motor has been raised with a big prop and only 2 seats we get it right around 86MPH.

That's right, your boat is probably a touch lighter (and yours is Kevlar skinned like the Tuff) then a production Nordic Crossfire-21 with a liner but I thought it was reasonable to use your top SR-21 speed, as posted by you, in this thread, even though a Crossfire-21 might have been a little slower because each 100lbs decreases speed by 1MPH. That is pretty fair as I see it would you agree? I thought so. Now RD said that your ski pole thingy weighs like 50lbs because you also use it as a stripper pole at Havasu so here is what I suggest. Take off the ski pole thingy, get all the ladies out of your boat, put a big speed prop on your own darn SR-21 with that stock 300XS, and try to get the boat to go faster then your own stated 86MPH. If you can't drive it above that speed then get someone at Nordic who can. When you do that, and get a new top speed, then get back to me, but until then you really have nothing to say. This kook could give a chit that your boat has a ski four blade prop, that the Sporty is too low because you pull two people up, that you can't control it above 86 et al, et al, et al. Don't make your problem my problem. Set it up for speed and then we will all know what a "medium layup" recreational Nordic SR-21 with a stock 300XS will do in perfect water conditions. My personal opinion is that your Nordic SR-21 is faster then 86MPH but I'll leave that to you wise guys to figure out. Until then please shut your pie hole. See that, I said please. The Canadian Calvary and the Strong Island Mafia (I'm a part of neither) says the Tuff 21 does 102.5MPH, standard layup. I think it is like 80 degrees out there so you should be able to get a fresh speed this weekend. I'm pulling for you to do 90+ and I mean that. Get to work. I like the Nordic SR-21 and Crossfire-21 a lot. I'm like Switzerland, whoever is better is fine by me, as I'm just the scribe and don't own any of the 5 boats in question because I don't have the coin 138 has. I have kids in College LOL.

One other thing before I move on to the next topic. You know darn well that an I/O SR-21 is identical to an O/B SR-21 except for the splashwell Nordic adds so why post on S+F that the SR-21 I used is an I/O? It is irrelevant and I thought the colors of the SR-21 I used were sweeeeet so I wanted to use that particular hull to help folks see how great that boat looked.

Now, next topic and onto the Nordic SR-20 Race Boat. First of all 138 enlightened me that although Nordic lists the SR-20 on there website as 20' long, it is actually 21' long - fiberglass only. Then I'm on the phone with RD (I apologized for his trip to Nordic) today and he is telling me that the SR-21/Crossfire-21 may actually be like 23' long. I can't for the life of me understand why the folks at Nordic would do that, but hey the owner is rich so he can do what he wants. That said 138, don't give me chit if I did not know the SR-20 was actually 21' long, I just went from what the Nordic website listed. For those that don't know the S+F thread is over 1200 posts long and the entire focus was the fastest 21'-22' SOB. I think RD read less then 50 pages of it before forming his opinion. Now, to me, the SR-20 is an entirely different hull then the SR-21/Crossfire-21. I think it has a lot less freeboard then an SR-21/Crossfire-21 plus less bow deadrise and that is a major criteria for the SOB's being compared over at S+F. The boats being compared are not only the fastest, but serve as family boats when they are not going 86MPH-102.5MPH. Come to NYC harbor with 6' ferry rollers and you'll understand why the extra freeboard of the SR-21 is needed. Being swamped is no fun. I routinely run from the Statue of Liberty to West Point, Statue of Liberty to Westport Ct, and Statue of Liberty into the Atlantic ocean to the Shark River inlet so I understand the value of a little extra freeboard. That said I am happy to be proven wrong about the freeboard of the two boats.

wildone, you're the one who actually provided the data on the lower freeboard of the SR-20 .............
The SR-20's perform great. Probably a foot less freeboard and a slightly tweaked bottom that gives it a lot better ride when trimmed out. It's a race boat boat all around. The SR-21 is an amazing boat all around. Family, race, pleasure, 2 seats 6 seats how ever you want it.

Now RD and I discussed the freeboard issue and he volunteered to go over to Nordic next week to measure a SR-20 and SR-21 from waterline chine to top of gunnel just behind the drivers seat and get back to all of us with the measurement. I told him don't do it for me, because I am just kook, but he insisted. I will happily pay both you, wildone and you, 138 a crisp George Washington if the freeboard is identical between the SR-20 and SR-21. Why would I do that? Because that would catapult the SR-20 (actually 21' - Nordics marketing is fughed up) into a higher spot over at the S+F community. Now, don't talk to me about some 500lb SR-20 potatoe chip doing 99MPH. Keep it consistent with a medium layup ocean use hull just like the other 4 boats being compared at S+F. It may be possible that both your SR-21 wildone and an SR-20 138 would be on the list when this internet circle jerk is done.

In closing, I own a Warlock and an Ultra from the West Coast. I also bought my 280 SS from Prime Marine who were incredibly gracious and helpful. I have been thrown out of my boat at 81MPH and spent 5 days in ICU. Point being is I am a left coast fan in general so please don't get up in my cage and call me names, I've never been "right" since the ICU stay. When you both do smackdown, try and construct proper sentences so I understand what the hell your trying to convey. I'm actually a pretty easy going guy but your barbs hurt my delicate feelings. If I ever run into any of you three jokers (wildone, 138, RD) I will hope to buy you all a cocktail.........or maybe not.

All this is of course in good fun.........it's after all boat banter and the internet. Wow, this post was almost a full Caymus :D

ps: RD (when he's not posting ski race videos) says Nordic will come East with a wacker SR-20 and SR-21 for a shootout against the other 4. Maybe you shiadart(138) or you H2oSki2Fast(wildone) should start a thread over at S+F and suggest it. I'm Switzerland and could give a chit LOL :thumbsup

NordicSR-21300XS.jpg
2008NordicSR-21CloseUp.jpg
2008NordicSR21Trailer.jpg
NordicCrossfire21Front.jpg
Nordic21Bottom.jpg
Nordic20and21SidebySide.jpg
2008NordicSR-21Idle.jpg
 
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RiverDave

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blah, blah, blah.....Well wildone, you only got one thing correct. I am a kook, I'll give you that much........:)

Now, shall we have fun and examine the facts?

1. I could give a hoot which of the 5 boats ends up on top over at S+F. I'm just the scribe and a frozen one at that, it's 16 degrees here in NYC
2. I didn't start this thread (it was started 2 years ago) nor did I start the 1200 post "Fastest SOB" S+F thread. I did start the separete 5 boat "Vote Now" thread
3. I'm the one who introduced Nordic, thinking not many S+F'ers even knew it existed and it would be a great boat to add to the conversation
4. The S+F comparison is not MIT/NASA sanctioned, it's the internet. I save the real heavy lifting for my litigation work. That said good data is valuable and fun
5. Each of those 5 S+F boats is equipped with a stock 300XS for power. Go to DBR and you'll see that is 306HP. 138 refuses to believe this but its true
6. Tuff, Progression, Sutphen are production layup boats. Every customer gets the same exact thing and each boat is weighed. Some are bagged, some infused
7. The Bernico F2 Xtreme I can't be sure on, but I am told that the weight on that hull reflects "recreational use" and that feedback is directly from the factory
8. No one at S+F gives a crap about pulling a skier. The thread is about which 21 SOB is "fastest" set up for top speed and still excellent in rough water
9. Let me repeat #8 - No one gives a crap about pulling a skier, at any race location world wide. I had a hard time getting RD to understand that one.

Now, onto your specific Nordic 21 wildone. You said, earlier in this thread that you own a 2008 Nordic SR-21 with "medium layup" for combination use of both ski racing and recreation. I'm fairly confident that your "medium layup" SR-21's hull and deck weight is at least a little below the 1475lbs that RD posted for the Crossfire-21. Would you agree? I thought so.


With that in mind and recognizing that the hull bottoms on both the SR-21 and Crossfire-21 are 100% identical I then used your speed of 86MPH in my S+F post.


That's right, your boat is probably a touch lighter (and yours is Kevlar skinned like the Tuff) then a production Nordic Crossfire-21 with a liner but I thought it was reasonable to use your top SR-21 speed, as posted by you, in this thread, even though a Crossfire-21 might have been a little slower because each 100lbs decreases speed by 1MPH. That is pretty fair as I see it would you agree? I thought so. Now RD said that your ski pole thingy weighs like 50lbs because you also use it as a stripper pole at Havasu so here is what I suggest. Take off the ski pole thingy, get all the ladies out of your boat, put a big speed prop on your own darn SR-21 with that stock 300XS, and try to get the boat to go faster then your own stated 86MPH. If you can't drive it above that speed then get someone at Nordic who can. When you do that, and get a new top speed, then get back to me, but until then you really have nothing to say. This kook could give a chit that your boat has a ski four blade prop, that the Sporty is too low because you pull two people up, that you can't control it above 86 et al, et al, et al. Don't make your problem my problem. Set it up for speed and then we will all know what a "medium layup" recreational Nordic SR-21 with a stock 300XS will do in perfect water conditions. My personal opinion is that your Nordic SR-21 is faster then 86MPH but I'll leave that to you wise guys to figure out. Until then please shut your pie hole. See that, I said please. The Canadian Calvary and the Strong Island Mafia (I'm a part of neither) says the Tuff 21 does 102.5MPH, standard layup. I think it is like 80 degrees out there so you should be able to get a fresh speed this weekend. I'm pulling for you to do 90+ and I mean that. Get to work. I like the Nordic SR-21 and Crossfire-21 a lot. I'm like Switzerland, whoever is better is fine by me, as I'm just the scribe and don't own any of the 5 boats in question because I don't have the coin 138 has. I have kids in College LOL.

One other thing before I move on to the next topic. You know darn well that an I/O SR-21 is identical to an O/B SR-21 except for the splashwell Nordic adds so why post on S+F that the SR-21 I used is an I/O? It is irrelevant and I thought the colors of the SR-21 I used were sweeeeet so I wanted to use that particular hull to help folks see how great that boat looked.

Now, next topic and onto the Nordic SR-20 Race Boat. First of all 138 enlightened me that although Nordic lists the SR-20 on there website as 20' long, it is actually 21' long - fiberglass only. Then I'm on the phone with RD (I apologized for his trip to Nordic) today and he is telling me that the SR-21/Crossfire-21 may actually be like 23' long. I can't for the life of me understand why the folks at Nordic would do that, but hey the owner is rich so he can do what he wants. That said 138, don't give me chit if I did not know the SR-20 was actually 21' long, I just went from what the Nordic website listed. For those that don't know the S+F thread is over 1200 posts long and the entire focus was the fastest 21'-22' SOB. I think RD read less then 50 pages of it before forming his opinion. Now, to me, the SR-20 is an entirely different hull then the SR-21/Crossfire-21. I think it has a lot less freeboard then an SR-21/Crossfire-21 plus less bow deadrise and that is a major criteria for the SOB's being compared over at S+F. The boats being compared are not only the fastest, but serve as family boats when they are not going 86MPH-102.5MPH. Come to NYC harbor with 6' ferry rollers and you'll understand why the extra freeboard of the SR-21 is needed. Being swamped is no fun. I routinely run from the Statue of Liberty to West Point, Statue of Liberty to Westport Ct, and Statue of Liberty into the Atlantic ocean to the Shark River inlet so I understand the value of a little extra freeboard. That said I am happy to be proven wrong about the freeboard of the two boats.

wildone, you're the one who actually provided the data on the lower freeboard of the SR-20 .............


Now RD and I discussed the freeboard issue and he volunteered to go over to Nordic next week to measure a SR-20 and SR-21 from waterline chine to top of gunnel just behind the drivers seat and get back to all of us with the measurement. I told him don't do it for me, because I am just kook, but he insisted. I will happily pay both you, wildone and you, 138 a crisp George Washington if the freeboard is identical between the SR-20 and SR-21. Why would I do that? Because that would catapult the SR-20 (actually 21' - Nordics marketing is fughed up) into a higher spot over at the S+F community. Now, don't talk to me about some 500lb SR-20 potatoe chip doing 99MPH. Keep it consistent with a medium layup ocean use hull just like the other 4 boats being compared at S+F. It may be possible that both your SR-21 wildone and an SR-20 138 would be on the list when this internet circle jerk is done.

In closing, I own a Warlock and an Ultra from the West Coast. I also bought my 280 SS from Prime Marine who were incredibly gracious and helpful. I have been thrown out of my boat at 81MPH and spent 5 days in ICU. Point being is I am a left coast fan in general so please don't get up in my cage and call me names, I've never been "right" since the ICU stay. When you both do smackdown, try and construct proper sentences so I understand what the hell your trying to convey. I'm actually a pretty easy going guy but your barbs hurt my delicate feelings. If I ever run into any of you three jokers (wildone, 138, RD) I will hope to buy you all a cocktail.........or maybe not.

All this is of course in good fun.........it's after all boat banter and the internet. Wow, this post was almost a full Caymus :D

ps: RD (when he's not posting ski race videos) says Nordic will come East with a wacker SR-20 and SR-21 for a shootout against the other 4. Maybe you shiadart(138) or you H2oSki2Fast(wildone) should start a thread over at S+F and suggest it. I'm Switzerland and could give a chit LOL :thumbsup

Greg I will be responding to this on my next break from machining.. There's a few things on here that have me scratching my head.

RD
 

GregG

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Sure thing Dave. Happy to hear your opinions and change whatever was wrong with my diatribe :p
 

wildone

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Greg I said i was done with this thread, but I'll leave 1 last statement. Everything I posted, I was under the presumption that you were interested in buying a boat and Needed a comparison to a stock crossfire. Not to be used as "Factual Data" as you have been using it. My complaint is simple. You were not honest with your intentions when you first started PMing me, and Asking questions about the boat. You had RD go to a manufacture and weigh a boat. May not have anything to do with me, but i am sure he could have simply got a weight with out putting on on a scale. If you simply put 21 Nordic Cyclone SR "Medium Lay up" Set up for ski racing weight unknown. I probably wouldn't have been pissed. But instead you posted pictures of my boat, and quoted me out of context. Then you started PMing about not mentioning Scream And fly and tried to cover your tracks. I answered your questions as best as i could after TELLING YOU GREG that NO 21 Crossfire has been rigged and set up for the purposes you mentioned.You don't need to re-quote 600 times. you dont need to rebuttal 18 times over on this. Its done.


And Greg, I don't have a scream and fly account "h20 skifast" no clue who that is
 
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RiverDave

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Sure thing Dave. Happy to hear your opinions and change whatever was wrong with my diatribe :p

Greg I said i was done with this thread, but I'll leave 1 last statement. Everything I posted, I was under the presumption that you were interested in buying a boat and Needed a comparison to a stock crossfire. Not to be used as "Factual Data" as you have been using it. My complaint is simple. You were not honest with your intentions when you first started PMing me, and Asking questions about the boat. You had RD go to a manufacture and weigh a boat. May not have anything to do with me, but i am sure he could have simply got a weight with out putting on on a scale. If you simply put 21 Nordic Cyclone SR "Medium Lay up" Set up for ski racing weight unknown. I probably wouldn't have been pissed. But instead you posted pictures of my boat, and quoted me out of context. Then you started PMing about not mentioning Scream And fly and tried to cover your tracks. I answered your questions as best as i could after TELLING YOU GREG that NO 21 Crossfire has been rigged and set up for the purposes you mentioned.You don't need to re-quote 600 times. you dont need to rebuttal 18 times over on this. Its done.


And Greg, I don't have a scream and fly account "h20 skifast" no clue who that is

To be honest Greg that's a little how I feel as well. It seems to me that you are hearing what you want to hear, and you are quoting things way out of context to make them fit some kind of bill, and then saying you have good intentions? Or switzerland?

I never said anything about some stripper pole action? or a couple other things you mentioned above? To be honest if you re-read my post above about the Nordic's vs whatevers.. that was 95% of our conversation just repeated on the phone. The other 5% was you telling me how the 20 is a low freeboard boat, to which you have in your head for some reason.. And me telling you it's not and they run them in the ocean no problems. You get hung up on weird out of context quotes, and hammer them as fact, convince yourself, and then won't listen to reality.. It's kind of weird?

RD
 

GregG

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What is weird RD? There is no smoking gun here, wildone owns an SR-21 with a 300XS and a 1.62 Sporty that only does 86MPH. I would think it would take all of 10 minutes to try a bigger prop on his boat and see how fast it might go. Try a 30, instead of his current 26 and maybe you will hit 90 right out of the box. If you can get to the limiter (6400RPM) and 90MPH then maybe you raise the motor to even with the pad and see what that that does for top end. Nordic really deserves a better number then 86MPH for there SR-21/Crossfire-21 model. I have no idea if a better speed is possible :(
 

Powerabout

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This whole thread seems to be trying to compare race boats to production boats, apples to oranges.
All ski racing boats have lots more potential top speed but thats not what they are built/rigged for
I do like the Nordic
 

138

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This whole thread seems to be trying to compare race boats to production boats, apples to oranges.
All ski racing boats have lots more potential top speed but thats not what they are built/rigged for
I do like the Nordic

O dam what a first post. Welcome Powerabout. This is way old but should be fun again..
 

RiverDave

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cheers
so nobody interested in Nordics anymore or no news in 2 years?

They haven't built a lot of the 21 cross fires.
I do know they built a couple more race boats (if memory serves) since this thread.
 

hallett21

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Just saw the one that ran SCOPE (I think it was the smallest participant) today in front of nautical. Very cool boat. Totally great for having a boat that could run to Catalina as well as run at the river.
 

Hallett_Whacker

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Bump.

What an interesting thread lol...

Anyway, I love the Crossfire. Have any been built in the last year or so that you guys know of?
 

RiverDave

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Bump.

What an interesting thread lol...

Anyway, I love the Crossfire. Have any been built in the last year or so that you guys know of?

I believe they have built a couple of the smaller ones (there's a bigger one and a smaller one) for ski racing. Not sure if anyone has built any for pleasure.

RD
 

Tommy Gun Images

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I believe they have built a couple of the smaller ones (there's a bigger one and a smaller one) for ski racing. Not sure if anyone has built any for pleasure.

RD


Todd Haig has one (pretty sure its a Crossfire) built as a pleasure boat with full interior and stereo etc. It is bad ass. And the price they can do these things for is pretty damn good considering.
 

Nielmcque

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I know it's an old thread but the crossfire boats sound really cool I wish there were more used ones on the market as I dont know if I'm currently in a position to buy a brand new one. Maybe soon though or maybe a used one or a ski race one will pop up for sale in the future.
 
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