1988 Vector V-drive

[Blownbillybob]

[GALLERY=][/GALLERY]
Picked up this Vector at the end of July out of N.Carloina boat was originally from SoCal-AZ area so if any 1 remembers this boat would like some background info if possible. I found it in 1of those v-drive videos on YouTube from 2004 lake Irvine kinda kool!!!

Any who!! The motor is a 502 stock bottom end dart iron heads B&M 420 blower intercooled solid roller 2-850s was on 7 psi TH400 c500 1.29 gear 3 blade prop @5300 WOT. 92mph. 55 gal fuel not bad motor was blowing chunks out the breathers after a med length run once it got into boost !!! So Winter project has started motor and trans are out and disassembled??????

More pics to come!!!!!

 

[Blownbillybob]

A little trans work!!
Basically stock with manual reverse pattern. Gonna rebuild with all heavy duty clutches any ideas on upgrades they do to marine 400s
Not sure yet if I’m gonna paint,polish or powder coat ???

 

[Blownbillybob]

Some cyl head work!!!!
These are brand new OG Australian Pro Top Lines 320cc been in the closet waiting on a winter project!!!

 

[RaceTec]

View attachment 608427 View attachment 608428
A little trans work!!
Basically stock with manual reverse pattern. Gonna rebuild with all heavy duty clutches any ideas on upgrades they do to marine 400s
Not sure yet if I’m gonna paint,polish or powder coat ???

Usually the first upgrade would be a 300m input shaft and front drum and sprag...

 

[AzGeo]

92 MPH @ 5300 RPMs with 1.29 gears, tells me you want to protect that prop with your LIFE .

10% slip on a V-drive set up is "really NICE" ...............

 

[Blownbillybob]

Usually the first upgrade would be a 300m input shaft and front drum and sprag...

Front drum cause?????

Upgrade to 6pk clutch or jus a stronger drum or both ??

Thanks

 

[welldigger00]

92 MPH @ 5300 RPMs with 1.29 gears, tells me you want to protect that prop with your LIFE .

10% slip on a V-drive set up is "really NICE" ...............

I need that prop


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[Blownbillybob]

[GALLERY=][/GALLERY]
A little transom work today!!!

 

[Blownbillybob]

A little relieved found my water leak!

What’s the name of the putty supposed to use??

Thanks

 

[Dalton]

marine tex I believe

 

[vdcruiser]

I see you bought the boat in North Carolina, are you on the east coast?

 

[Blownbillybob]

I see you bought the boat in North Carolina, are you on the east coast?

Nor cal. FRISCO!!!

 

[Blownbillybob]

[GALLERY=][/GALLERY]
So motor sounded good oil pressure was good jus had a little blow by when it got in to boost?? No big deal so the plan was for a quick freshen up and new blower set up!!
Well 1 lobe is no bueno!!
Couldn’t even tell which lifter it was cause they ALL looked perfect?? Motor never made any noises to indicate a bad lobe because where the wear is at and lifter still being good !!
After talking to John a DRC cams he said it could have been a bad grind maybe stone went dull on last lobe ??
So looking to see if I can get this 1 reground??

 

[mesquito_creek]

That is crazy that the cam would show that defect with no evidence of a problem on the lifter. Maybe the owner swapped them out at the sale to keep the "good" cam or something. I can't see regrinding that cam really saving much money over a new cam or even a new cam and lifters.

 

[vstdispatch]

I need that prop


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That's exactly what I was thinking....

 

[RaceTec]

Front drum cause?????

Upgrade to 6pk clutch or jus a stronger drum or both ??

Thanks

It is cheap to upgrade it all while it is apart! Usually the drum and input shaft are sold together. Two reasons, undercut on the splines on the drum and the hardness of the new input shaft versus stock drum splines. Call California Transmissions and see if you can talk to Art Carr, or try to get a hold of Steve Culhane... Sorry I only do pistons now, I have been out of the transmission game for a couple decades... Some of the V-drive or drag race guys on here should be able to give you good info on who does builds now?

 

[welldigger00]

That's exactly what I was thinking....

With this prop, my boat might be the first 21rc to break 150 mph.


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[Outdrive1]

It is cheap to upgrade it all while it is apart! Usually the drum and input shaft are sold together. Two reasons, undercut on the splines on the drum and the hardness of the new input shaft versus stock drum splines. Call California Transmissions and see if you can talk to Art Carr, or try to get a hold of Steve Culhane... Sorry I only do pistons now, I have been out of the transmission game for a couple decades... Some of the V-drive or drag race guys on here should be able to give you good info on who does builds now?

Mines an Art Carr. It has a hardened shaft and it’s welded in the drum.


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[Outdrive1]

With this prop, my boat might be the first 21rc to break 150 mph.


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Can I borrow it when you guys are done?


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[vdcruiser]

Mind telling us what size and Mfg. the prop is ? I'm always looking for a better prop for my 21' Howard.

 

[Hammer]

Great Thread. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Blownbillybob]

Can’t find a name it says 12. 15
But I measured from center out to the edge of 1 blade and got 5.5. So looks like it’s been worked over

 

[Blownbillybob]

View attachment 609544 View attachment 609545

Can’t find a name it says 12. 15
But I measured from center out to the edge of 1 blade and got 5.5. So looks like it’s been worked over

And I could be wrong on the gear?? I was told it has 30% over gear!!!

Casale doesn’t have a 30 over? a 29 & 32 so I could be wrong on the gear I’m assuming 29s. The case is stamped. 25s. And Andy said he built it with 25s back in 87. But I know FOR SURE someone has been in it??

 

[welldigger00]

We’re just fucking with you[emoji6]


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[vdcruiser]

Looks like it could possibly be a Menkens, is it stainless steel ?

 

[Blownbillybob]

Looks like stainless!!

 

[Blownbillybob]

A little work this weekend not a whole lot. Some motor mounts and the cross brace

 

[Blownbillybob]

New motor plate mounts finished with a mock up motor

 

[Blownbillybob]

I noticed also that the engine had been moved forward 6 1/4 inches so I’m thinking this boat probably came with an N/A motor the blower motor must have been installed later on

Moving it forward that much what did it do to the handling of the boat at speed I’ve seen the ski race boat motors placed pretty far forward??

 

[Blownbillybob]

Some block work today
Parallel decked the block on my storm vulcan
Torque plate & plateau honed the cyls in the CK10
I went with the icon forged piston not a bad piston for the price wish the skirt would’ve been a tad longer put I like the equalizer grove between the ring grooves +.004 my cyl walls were in pretty good shape bore size is 4.470 now with plenty of room left down the road with the 4.250 stroker it makes 533.5 cid

 

[AzGeo]

Looks like it could possibly be a Menkens, is it stainless steel ?

See the 90 degree CUP, I've been trying to explain ? It's a thin sharp edge, that interrupts the "laminar flow" .

I have Dallas cup all the way around the end of the blade tips .

Looking at the top photo, the top blade; that cup ends about 3/4" too short from being a "full radius 90 degree cup"

Doing that reduces "tail lift" even with 3 blades over 110 .

 

[Blownbillybob]

See the 90 degree CUP, I've been trying to explain ? It's a thin sharp edge, that interrupts the "laminar flow" .

I have Dallas cup all the way around the end of the blade tips .

Looking at the top photo, the top blade; that cup ends about 3/4" too short from being a "full radius 90 degree cup"

Doing that reduces "tail lift" even with 3 blades over 110 .

So this prop should be OK up to 100 mph???

 

[AzGeo]

So this prop should be OK up to 100 mph???

I don't know how much your boat weighs, but the 3 blades that I have been using were all 11 3/4" and smaller, on 16" pitch .

This 20' open bow went 102 @ 6000, and 114 @ 6700, with one of those Menkens SS 3 blades with the cup . (11 1/4" X 16, on 1.29's)

The blue one went 86 @ 5400, same gear and prop, but small hot 177 blower .

 

[sintax]

Any updates on the planned work on the TH400?

 

[Blownbillybob]

Any updates on the planned work on the TH400?

Getting parts together wright now will do a big spread when I assemble it!

 

[AzGeo]

I would have it X-RAY'D before use, and every year thereafter . Especially I would do it after anything strikes or makes contact with it .

X-RAY, not Magnaflux, different worlds .........

 

[Blownbillybob]

A little head work this weekend fresh cut int & exh seats
Still have to check the gasket match and double check guide clearance

 

[Blownbillybob]

Mocking up the strut brace making sure it’s not going to hit pan and making some more angle brackets on the mill for the brace

 

[Blownbillybob]

Strut brace finished. Jus have to do some clean up on it

 

[obnoxious001]

I saw this too late to comment on the cam, but more likely a problem with the hardening on that lobe I think. I had one freshened up that looked like that and it didn't last, so I would definitely not suggest just doing a re-grind on that one.

 

[Blownbillybob]

So here I go on the trans!!!!
First of all I’m not a trans expert nor do I claim to be, all tho I’ve built about 250 big Allison trans for transit this is jus what I did and some of the upgradeds, some guys may say I didn’t have to do some of them and that’s OK but since I’m doing it in house saving $$$ on Labor I was able to spend some in other places and bargain hunt!!!! And some guys may say I should have done more and that’s OK also this is jus how I did mine

First of all I talked to a couple of friends and customers of mine and asked around the net to get some advice on the build. And sat down when I got it apart and figured out how it work what clutches were applied and which planetary sets were used for each gear, figured the usage per gear and load and set a plan to upgrade each part if I seen necessary

The planetary sets and output shaft for what I’m doing was strong enough not much load in first maybe some super hard starts in second, all in third which no planetarys are turning in third there locked!!

 

[Blownbillybob]

So I’m gonna try and explain operation correctly???? Ha!!

So on the left hand side of pic is ur input shaft receives input and power from ur engine / torque converter or power adapter ,locked to the forward drum ,turns constantly with engine (marine) 1st gear. Forward clutch pack is applied locks clutches and turns main shaft in clockwise rotation at same time sun gear shaft and direct drum are turning counter clockwise low roller is locked, u can’t see it but it’s in the left side silver planetary carrier ,both planetary gear sets are turning 1 in to the other to reduce ratio for first gear!!!

2nd. Center support piston applies intermediate clutches lock and stops direct drum from turning counter clockwise 34 element sprag holds drum and sun gear, low roller disengage cancels out the silver planetary carrier now only 1 planetary is turning 2nd gear ratio

3rd. Now direct drum clutch pack is applied locks clutches and turns direct drum in clockwise rotation at same speed as forward drum cancels out 2nd planetary set because everything is now turning at engine speed creating direct lock or 3rd gear

 

[Blownbillybob]

So this TH400 that came out of my boat sat behind a so called 800 hp blown 502 and was a late model bone stock trans except for the manual valve body and power adapter

Now is gonna have I hope a 950 hp blown 533 so now for some of the upgrades?????

First of all let’s start with clutch material?? There’s at least 1/2 dozen if not more different materials out there u can use , the first 1 u usually hear of is Red altos or blues which are very good clutches the problem in a marine app is there’s no converter un like a car when u come to a stop the converter slips not a big deal but in our boats there’s no converter, locked to crankshaft at engine speed so Input shaft is allways turning
The problem with a lot of fibers is there smooth and when u have them stacked with steels and trans fluid in between it wants to stay locked and not free up unlike a waffle cut wants to break away easier from the steels,also clutch stack clearance is critical!
.010 per fiber-steel stack so 4 of each is .040 min. 5 is .050. 6 is .060. A lot of races transmissions run tighter clearances so they apply faster due to the short distance the piston travels!
We don’t do much shifting!!!!!

Bottom left is similar to a Red alto, right bottom is a stock Raybestos and top is a Raybestos graphite waffle which is what I went with
My original trans set up did have some drag in neutral so when docking it was allways moving!!!

 

[Blownbillybob]

So this TH400 that came out of my boat sat behind a so called 800 hp blown 502 and was a late model bone stock trans except for the manual valve body and power adapter

Now is gonna have I hope a 950 hp blown 533 so now for some of the upgrades?????

 

[Blownbillybob]

So the front pump was worn on 1 side so got a hold of my buddy at the tranny shop and he had a good used core ,so took it home cleaned it up and got it ready for assembly, was going to order a high pressure spring for it but once I got them both apart I noticed that it allready had a bigger spring then the new 1,also with some spacers in it so of course I switched it.
The higher the pressure at the piston the more applied force at the clutches so is an easy upgrade for any trans for more clutch holding power!!!
A little trick when assembling the 2 half’s is to use the trans as a centering tool put a drill bit or transfer punch to line up the holes and torgue the bolts to 18 ft lbs. I also added 2 more bolts to the pump body, the holes were allready tapped in the housing so jus had to drill the pump
Make sure u can turn ur pump by hand after its all together!!!

 

[Blownbillybob]

I got this forward drum and shaft from CK performance it’s a stronger shaft with stock drum , the piston was also upgraded to an alum vs the stamped steal 1 which can flex and possibly crack, the main shaft hub was updated to a steal 1 which I found a great deal online and also the direct hub is now Billet steal from Coan transmissions
U can see the difference on the main shaft jus behind the splines stock on the right new 1 on the left

 

[Blownbillybob]

Center support not much going on here the old 1 had another stamped steal piston upgraded to an alum 1
The alum 1 was not very flat it was another used part that I got from the tranny shop stock ,so jus lapped it flat???

 

[Blownbillybob]

Direct drum. Now there’s a lot going on in here!!!!
First off this is a 4L80E new direct drum comes with a 34 element sprag bearing for more holding load in 2nd gear updated snap ring to a Spiro lock it also has an alum piston machined to fit a 6 stack the new Billet sun gear shaft presses into the drum which makes the drum run true to the center line and doesn’t prematurely wear the 34 element sprag in over run at high RPM
Also I dual feeded the piston????
So the direct dum operates 3rd and reverse it has to different chambers in 1 piston the smaller inner chamber is for 3rd and the bigger outer is for reverse, u remove the middle lip seal and make it 1 chamber drill a .040 hole in the drum to bleed off pressure when not applied , remove second ring on center support , blocked off hole to the right of the center support bolt in case and updated intermediate to a 4 stack

 

[Blownbillybob]

top pick new 1 on the left
Middle pick cutting down piston
Bottom pick check run out on sun gear shaft

 

[lenmann]

Holy crap, I understand about 25% of what you've said so far but I'm digging it. One of my long term life goals is to under stand how an automatic trans works. This is a good first step.

Until then, I'll still use Art Carr for my stuff.

Thanks for taking the time to document the process. I know first hand its a pain in the ass.

 

[Blownbillybob]

So u can see in these pics the 2 different chambers of the direct piston.
This is a stamped steel pistons with molded seals on the outer and very inner. These are throw aways!!
So the outer bigger dia is the reverse chamber and the smaller inner chamber is 3rd. U can see how doing this conversion which is very simple puts a lot more force on the entire area of the piston