TWO NEW WILD CATS AT CHEETAH...

[riverroyal]

So the horizon magic and cheetahs have the same hull guy? You sure? I was told rusty at ultra did the new magic.



And were off

 

[fmo24]

For those of us with absolutely no knowledge of how boats are laid,lade up .could someone put the schedule into layman' terms and what this means ... Asking for a friend.

The schedule is how the different materials are specified. There are woven and non-woven materials these each have their own strengths. In lamination there are multipe layers of materials used and the Schedule is which material and what order these are laid down in the mold.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

The schedule is how the different materials are specified. There are woven and non-woven materials these each have their own strengths. In lamination there are multipe layers of materials used and the Schedule is which material and what order these are laid down in the mold.

In the beginning,..I thought schedule was the date the boat would be finished...but after having a couple dozen new boats built, I found that the only schedule boat builders use is payment...getting a boat finished anywhere close to completion date is pure luck

 

[2FORCEFULL]

So the horizon magic and cheetahs have the same hull guy? You sure? I was told rusty at ultra did the new magic.



And were off

the new magic isn't started rigging yet, last boat horizon did that I know of was rigged by greg at cheetah...

 

[TCHB]

I would think the average boat hull build is pretty close to the same schedule.

Materials are most likely coming from the same place.

 

[fmo24]

I would think the average boat hull build is pretty close to the same schedule.

Materials are most likely coming from the same place.

Ya there are only so many resin and glass suppliers. It is all in the weight of the material.

 

[TCHB]

I still remember all the chopper gun boats. Many are still running around today 40 years later. Not as strong but light and they held up. Most had around 350HP with jets on the back. They did not even have full stringers going forward.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

here's the formula for boats,... boat vs water conditions vs common sense...get anyone of them wrong... bad things happen...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

same applies with a light layed up boat with 1 by stringers,... it's built for one thing, fastest possible on smooth water... that boat in the wrong hands will get ugly

 

[2FORCEFULL]

So any way,...this thread was more of a welcome to the new boat company owner, not a comparison to the other builders.... It takes a big sac of balls and a big sac of doe to jump in to the boating industry,... reputation of said builder will be history made... look at stoker and DCB...I say give the guy a chance to get out of the gate, and we'll see what he can do...is there really a such of thing as pre-bash???? he has just took over, and already has 2 wild cats out of the mold....best of fortune and luck to the new cheetah

 

[2FORCEFULL]

I wanted to pull the trigger on the new blue cheetah,..but, I have over a million invested in boating right now,... some of which i'm getting no ROI, as in vech, homes and boats,..at some point you just need to draw a line...

 

[guest hs]

I’m not bashing the new Cheetah owners I hope they do good honestly but the old molds need to go away build the new wildcats and maybe pick up a couple of the molds out of Moscows lot I know the 280 Cole is over there and the new 27-28 Cole cat mold that is brand new and never had a hull pulled from it. That would give you a nice line up a deck boat a cat and a bee bottom with very little investments on the molds. Hmmm maybe they should higher me I have lot of great ideas. I love challenges and turn things around to be successful

 

[beaverretriever]

From skimming this thread, this is what I gathered.

This guy lays up Cheetah fiberglass between 12am and 5am

And this guy lays up Advantage glass during normal business hours.

I am completely kidding by the way. We know everyone in the boat industry is ugly.

 

[westair]

I’m not bashing the new Cheetah owners I hope they do good honestly but the old molds need to go away build the new wildcats and maybe pick up a couple of the molds out of Moscows lot I know the 280 Cole is over there and the new 27-28 Cole cat mold that is brand new and never had a hull pulled from it. That would give you a nice line up a deck boat a cat and a bee bottom with very little investments on the molds. Hmmm maybe they should higher me I have lot of great ideas. I love challenges and turn things around to be successful

So you're sayin Cheetah in the 50+ years of building boats has not been successful?

 

[2FORCEFULL]

I’m not bashing the new Cheetah owners I hope they do good honestly but the old molds need to go away build the new wildcats and maybe pick up a couple of the molds out of Moscows lot I know the 280 Cole is over there and the new 27-28 Cole cat mold that is brand new and never had a hull pulled from it. That would give you a nice line up a deck boat a cat and a bee bottom with very little investments on the molds. Hmmm maybe they should higher me I have lot of great ideas. I love challenges and turn things around to be successful

I with you here... start with what works good already... then advance...maybe just build the one and stay busy...

 

[guest hs]

From skimming this thread, this is what I gathered.

This guy lays up Cheetah fiberglass between 12am and 5am

And this guy lays up Advantage glass during normal business hours.

I am completely kidding by the way. We know everyone in the boat industry is ugly.

Now that’s funny!

 

[guest hs]

So you're sayin Cheetah in the 50+ years of building boats has not been successful?

Anyone that can stay in business for 50 + years is obviously successful I’m just saying ditch the old outdated molds and rebuild the company with some new product get the public excited about the company’s direction. You have to agree that their old Fast Cat deck boats are very outdated looking same goes for the 22 and 26 Advantage Party Cats. I know it’s been years since Advantage has laid up any of those two models but are selling XFlights as fast as they can build them! If this doesn’t make sense to some of you it would floor me!

 

[westair]

Anyone that can stay in business for 50 + years is obviously successful I’m just saying ditch the old outdated molds and rebuild the company with some new product get the public excited about the company’s direction. You have to agree that their old Fast Cat deck boats are very outdated looking same goes for the 22 and 26 Advantage Party Cats. I know it’s been years since Advantage has laid up any of those two models but are selling XFlights as fast as they can build them! If this doesn’t make sense to some of you it would floor me!

Actually I completely agree with this, I didn't think it through when I first read your post but yeah some of those models are very old..... a good opportunity now for the new owners!

 

[guest hs]

Thank you finally. Look at Tahiti and yes I have owned a couple of them over the years and their quality isn’t the best but they sold a lot of boats over the years. I’m actually excited about the Tahiti brand now and the directions it’s heading I think the product looks great I think the price is great and that is great for the consumers. Hopefully the new owners of Cheetah mock their direction and be successful as well

 

[retaocleg]

you mean Gary Lynch.....?

and using Lynch as a badge of quality is pretty comical in the industry circles in havasu…...at least from those that witnessed it first hand, and are knowledgeable about the molding process...he built for many builders doing overflow throughout the years, and not to go into details, but had some quality issues during the boom...caused some to bring their glass work back in house to control the quality issues....

this is like de ja vue, all over again, with this nonsense...…..(shout out to yogi)

cheetah laid up the same as eticket?.....no, not even close
use the same materials?...nope
everyone quoted uses the same materials?...….unh uh, false
everyone quoted has the same basic layup schedule...……….c'mon, really?

cheetah is a turd pile.....no, def not

not here to throw bombs...….just trying to correct the falsehoods and giving first hand knowledge to board members, without bashing...

......again, I might add(this thread has some ground hog day to it) @2FORCEFULL ​

..and to be clear, even the lower tier builders of today are better than the better builders of 20 years ago......materials wise...and to a large extent, craftsmanship

the boat building community is small in the lhc, a lot of he talent roam from shop to shop...…..we all know what the layups are from shop to shop, and who is doing what....with what materials..every shop is diferent…..does that mean it is bad?.....no...….some use better quality materials?....absolutely......the difference between a decent drum of resin and the best is about 3X...with a couple drums per boat=$.....and some will say they use the same resin as top builders, which might be true...….they skin the boat with the good stuff(first layer), but then build out with the inexpensive gp resin...….....bi directional glass is good, quad is much better...but again, $......several rolls per...….……...you know how many use quad?...…..not many, only the guys getting top whack...….which is why they get top whack.....same for using non plywood for the skeleton of the boat...….the list goes on and on......



ps...…...good luck to cheetah2...….I am sure there will be changes to what was done in the past, and I like their deckboats a lot.....they don't need to be eticket or advantage...….just be the best cheetah they can be...…..the bottom line is cheetah is not a bad boat at all, especially compared to cheetahs past...…...but they are not in the elite league, but most aren't...…I would have no prob rocking a cheetah...…..and the gel is as good as anyone(advantage Patricio is my boy!)…...…..everyone has a niche
carry on...…..

 

[2FORCEFULL]

well, now that everyone is happy again....get me a beer

 

[steak&lobster]

well, now that everyone is happy again....get me a beer

I’m having 1


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[2FORCEFULL]

you mean Gary Lynch.....?

and using Lynch as a badge of quality is pretty comical in the industry circles in havasu…...at least from those that witnessed it first hand, and are knowledgeable about the molding process...he built for many builders doing overflow throughout the years, and not to go into details, but had some quality issues during the boom...caused some to bring their glass work back in house to control the quality issues....

this is like de ja vue, all over again, with this nonsense...…..(shout out to yogi)

cheetah laid up the same as eticket?.....no, not even close
use the same materials?...nope
everyone quoted uses the same materials?...….unh uh, false
everyone quoted has the same basic layup schedule...……….c'mon, really?

cheetah is a turd pile.....no, def not

not here to throw bombs...….just trying to correct the falsehoods and giving first hand knowledge to board members, without bashing...

......again, I might add(this thread has some ground hog day to it) @2FORCEFULL ​

..and to be clear, even the lower tier builders of today are better than the better builders of 20 years ago......materials wise...and to a large extent, craftsmanship

the boat building community is small in the lhc, a lot of he talent roam from shop to shop...…..we all know what the layups are from shop to shop, and who is doing what....with what materials..every shop is diferent…..does that mean it is bad?.....no...….some use better quality materials?....absolutely......the difference between a decent drum of resin and the best is about 3X...with a couple drums per boat=$.....and some will say they use the same resin as top builders, which might be true...….they skin the boat with the good stuff(first layer), but then build out with the inexpensive gp resin...….....bi directional glass is good, quad is much better...but again, $......several rolls per...….……...you know how many use quad?...…..not many, only the guys getting top whack...….which is why they get top whack.....same for using non plywood for the skeleton of the boat...….the list goes on and on......



ps...…...good luck to cheetah2...….I am sure there will be changes to what was done in the past, and I like their deckboats a lot.....they don't need to be eticket or advantage...….just be the best cheetah they can be...…..the bottom line is cheetah is not a bad boat at all, especially compared to cheetahs past...…...but they are not in the elite league, but most aren't...…I would have no prob rocking a cheetah...…..and the gel is as good as anyone(advantage Patricio is my boy!)…...…..everyone has a niche
carry on...…..

Well well well, not to argue.... but...this is the innernet ….so I'm going back to around 2008 or so.... I needed some gel repair, so I went to see gary lench….the boat was a force off shore,.... and we also had a cheetah 28 fast cat...so while there,.. talking to Gary.... the owner.... I asked.... whats the deal with cheetah's, and where did the wild cat come from.... he said they built the mold and lay them up for cheetah...and that then have been doing it for some time.... so I had to ask... whats the differace between the cheetah hulls and the other boat hulls they do.... he...(the owner) said... not a damn thing, just a buch of rumors going around the inter net...so I asked again... other than the mold,.. all are the same...YEP!! he went on to say... do you think I would do one boat one way and another different... ?? it my name on the hull and I have to warranty the work..., look over there... see all them 55 gal. barrals of resin... they all are the same..and see all the rolls of glass..all the same..so I said... I'm thinking of buying a wild cat and was wondering...


So, I read all the posts like yours,... and went and asked the actual person doing the layup...as of now... I'm still to this day reading the same posts on boat forums...and until gary tells me that he lyed to me.... who do I believe...

 

[guest hs]

you mean Gary Lynch.....?

and using Lynch as a badge of quality is pretty comical in the industry circles in havasu…...at least from those that witnessed it first hand, and are knowledgeable about the molding process...he built for many builders doing overflow throughout the years, and not to go into details, but had some quality issues during the boom...caused some to bring their glass work back in house to control the quality issues....

this is like de ja vue, all over again, with this nonsense...…..(shout out to yogi)

cheetah laid up the same as eticket?.....no, not even close
use the same materials?...nope
everyone quoted uses the same materials?...….unh uh, false
everyone quoted has the same basic layup schedule...……….c'mon, really?

cheetah is a turd pile.....no, def not

not here to throw bombs...….just trying to correct the falsehoods and giving first hand knowledge to board members, without bashing...

......again, I might add(this thread has some ground hog day to it) @2FORCEFULL ​

..and to be clear, even the lower tier builders of today are better than the better builders of 20 years ago......materials wise...and to a large extent, craftsmanship

the boat building community is small in the lhc, a lot of he talent roam from shop to shop...…..we all know what the layups are from shop to shop, and who is doing what....with what materials..every shop is diferent…..does that mean it is bad?.....no...….some use better quality materials?....absolutely......the difference between a decent drum of resin and the best is about 3X...with a couple drums per boat=$.....and some will say they use the same resin as top builders, which might be true...….they skin the boat with the good stuff(first layer), but then build out with the inexpensive gp resin...….....bi directional glass is good, quad is much better...but again, $......several rolls per...….……...you know how many use quad?...…..not many, only the guys getting top whack...….which is why they get top whack.....same for using non plywood for the skeleton of the boat...….the list goes on and on......



ps...…...good luck to cheetah2...….I am sure there will be changes to what was done in the past, and I like their deckboats a lot.....they don't need to be eticket or advantage...….just be the best cheetah they can be...…..the bottom line is cheetah is not a bad boat at all, especially compared to cheetahs past...…...but they are not in the elite league, but most aren't...…I would have no prob rocking a cheetah...…..and the gel is as good as anyone(advantage Patricio is my boy!)…...…..everyone has a niche
carry on...…..

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU someone that understands the difference in quality materials!!

 

[2FORCEFULL]

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU someone that understands the difference in quality materials!!

Rumors,… it has yet to be proven that the materials are differant

 

[retaocleg]

Well well well, not to argue.... but...this is the innernet ….so I'm going back to around 2008 or so.... I needed some gel repair, so I went to see gary lench….the boat was a force off shore,.... and we also had a cheetah 28 fast cat...so while there,.. talking to Gary.... the owner.... I asked.... whats the deal with cheetah's, and where did the wild cat come from.... he said they built the mold and lay them up for cheetah...and that then have been doing it for some time.... so I had to ask... whats the differace between the cheetah hulls and the other boat hulls they do.... he...(the owner) said... not a damn thing, just a buch of rumors going around the inter net...so I asked again... other than the mold,.. all are the same...YEP!! he went on to say... do you think I would do one boat one way and another different... ?? it my name on the hull and I have to warranty the work..., look over there... see all them 55 gal. barrals of resin... they all are the same..and see all the rolls of glass..all the same..so I said... I'm thinking of buying a wild cat and was wondering...


So, I read all the posts like yours,... and went and asked the actual person doing the layup...as of now... I'm still to this day reading the same posts on boat forums...and until gary tells me that he lyed to me.... who do I believe...

posts like mine?...…..lolz
have a good weekend

 

[2FORCEFULL]

I just wonder this.... if Nordic or Advantage had bought out cheetah and was doing the wild cat.... would the discussion be the same????

I've owned a lot of Nordics, a lot of advantage, and a lot of halletts….as far as the hulls go,... I don't see anyflag raising difference between any of them....I would buy a Nordic tomorrow if I had the money.... wife and I really love the rage...even after banging my head getting into the open bow...

I don't work some where... no one will hire me... so I've always had to be the owner

 

[steak&lobster]

I just wonder this.... if Nordic or Advantage had bought out cheetah and was doing the wild cat.... would the discussion be the same????

I've owned a lot of Nordics, a lot of advantage, and a lot of halletts….as far as the hulls go,... I don't see anyflag raising difference between any of them....I would buy a Nordic tomorrow if I had the money.... wife and I really love the rage...even after banging my head getting into the open bow...

I don't work some where... no one will hire me... so I've always had to be the owner

If I had the money. . . LoL


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[2FORCEFULL]

posts like mine?...…..lolz
have a good weekend

thankyou, you do the same.... I don't know how long you have been at Nordic...but you doing what you do, you would know way more than most...but I wanna say this... pretty awesome the work you are turning out..

 

[2FORCEFULL]

If I had the money. . . LoL


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I should have said, if my wife would give me some of her money....

 

[steak&lobster]

I should have said, if my wife would give me some of her money....

Thank you! I felt you were being disingenuous to me.


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[2FORCEFULL]

Thank you! I felt you were being disingenuous to me.


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I tell ya,.. the money I've spent to be involved in havasu...I'd much rather be in a van down by the river and have a miller jet boat...

 

[guest hs]

You have to be nuts if you think Nordic Advantage or Eliminator have the same lamination schedule !

 

[guest hs]

I tell ya,.. the money I've spent to be involved in havasu...I'd much rather be in a van down by the river and have a miller jet boat...

Hey I have a Miller jet sitting in my garage let’s go camping lol

 

[2FORCEFULL]

You have to be nuts if you think Nordic Advantage or Eliminator have the same lamination schedule !

I was nuts long before this thread.....

 

[guest hs]

Let’s go

 

[guest hs]

steveo come on down to Needles and let’s shut this place down!

 

[jeepdog]

It reminds me of the old joke...
Wanna go camping

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[2FORCEFULL]

Not to say I don't believe what I read on the internet.....but, if all the stuff lench did was bad.... then I guess I really don't know any more than what he said..but I did ask him....and of all the cheetahs I've owned... never had a problem with the hull,

but again.... cheetah of the past is the past....

 

[2FORCEFULL]

steveo come on down to Needles and let’s shut this place down!

going to mead in the morning,.. and to havasu sunday...

 

[guest hs]

Needles Saturday come on!

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Needles Saturday come on!

so when will you be in havasu???

 

[2FORCEFULL]

as far as boat builders go....they all use the same schedule...2 more weeks,...

 

[guest hs]

as far as boat builders go....they all use the same schedule...2 more weeks,...

Now that is Comedy Steve so love it!

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Here's what Ihave found in my life of building,....there are craftsmen , and there are butchers......using the same materials,... some finish with a work of art...and, even when trying their hardest, others using the same materials and tools.....just can't seem to get there...the artistic ability, attention to detail is just not there... there is all ways the one's that say, that's good enough for what they are paying.... and at the same time , there are the ones that say, they don't pay enough for me to work here...when I used to run work,.. I found that you'd get better work out of a guy if he had to sign his name on the work when done...even with concrete....the same mud out of the same truck, two different guys get different results....signature work is the key,.. guys that do stuff that are proud of their finished product, VS production workers....one of the big down falls to boat building is the finished product....and I think it really has a lot to do with the upholstery ….you can have the best gelcoater do the hull , and have it ruined by bad upholstery...and poor rigging...


so,... what going on here is this,... the real craftsmen just don't want , and shouldn't have to be in the same group with the "that's good enough group"... when I had my body shop, painting streetrods,... I'd always get the guy that would tell me.... they'll never see that... I would say... but I see it now so fix it... and then there where the guys that I would look at their work and say, damn that looks good... those where the guys that would not work on the same car as the other guy...

I personaly watched a guy that comes on here and raves and self pats himself on the back about his highest quality work, while installing a under bed gas tank. miss the hole for the filler neck....to me... the wood needed to be replaced... as it was a mistake... to him.... he took a screw driver and chiseled the wood till the filler neck dropped in,..then told me, " I'll make a cover for it and you will never see it".... I said..." Like a toilet seat lid?"....the look he gave me was priceless...so with all that has been said about fit and finsh, and quality build.....we are talking in the past, as the first boat hasn't been finished,...if the new owner takes the time to inspect whats being done...and has the needed eye for quality, and the ability to take the cheetah's to the next level, a signature type product...it will be a nice boat to own.....so,... we'll see is all I can say...

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Also, I wanna add this about the new owner... for those of you that have been to cheetah,you'll know what I'm talking about... while there, this was said...we are not doing anything till I get this mess cleaned up....the place is clean now and looking good, remodeled and professional

 

[270]

Steve did your old and current wild cats have the same twin step bottoms?

 

[robby dmax]

I should have said, if my wife would give me some of her money....

What Steve the muffler shop just a front..and Sue has all the money??

 

[TCHB]

I tell ya,.. the money I've spent to be involved in havasu...I'd much rather be in a van down by the river and have a miller jet boat...

Steve we did the same thing many years ago in our 19 bubble deck. We slept in banana chairs!

 

[Singleton]

What Steve the muffler shop just a front..and Sue has all the money??

Steve is retired, Sue still brings home a paycheck and supports Steve’s habits