Trevay Martin Pictures

[Tom Brown]

Everyone is out protesting ....

Everyone?

How about a head count. 1% of the US population would be over 3 million people protesting. No? 0.1% of the US population would be over 300,000 people. Still no? One thousandth of one percent of the US population would be about 3500 people. That sounds closer to accurate, to me.

I think the president's words on the subject were salient. I will be extremely surprised if the case is tried again but the stand your ground law may end up being contested.

 

[Instigator]

So I have a question regarding this case and the outcome.... Everyone is out protesting because they don't agree with the outcome and want to take it to the federal level, why??? What would be done differently?? More expensive federal lawyers fight for a different outcome that will make the other side happy??? I dont get it, I havent followed the case in depth but based on what I have heard and based on simple facts about a man protecting himself I agree with the outcome of the trial. Someone please explain the federal court portion to me....

F...... Liberals:thumbsdown

 

[Meaney77]

Everyone?

How about a head count. 1% of the US population would be over 3 million people protesting. No? 0.1% of the US population would be over 300,000 people. Still no? One thousandth of one percent of the US population would be about 3500 people. That sounds closer to accurate, to me.

I think the president's words on the subject were salient. I will be extremely surprised if the case is tried again but the stand your ground law may end up being contested.

My bad, not everyone...

 

[Meaney77]

The Motor City Mad man has hit the nail on the head?

http://rare.us/story/nugent-zimmerm...3822740419&SREF=CustomerSite&SFBState=Unknown

So this guy?s neighborhood has been burglarized off and on and the residents are very concerned for their safety and well-being. Neighbors agree to upkick their vigilance and overall level of awareness to watch out for each other and keep an eye out for suspicious individuals and behavior. It could be considered by an official designation such as ?Neighborhood Watch?, but officially labeled or not, it is the purest form of Americans watching out for each other and being good neighbors.

So far so good.

So George Zimmerman sees what he believes is a suspicious individual in suspicious circumstances, and intelligently and responsibly pays attention and calls 9-1-1 to report what he sees to the officials. This gesture is proof positive he was not looking to do anyone harm or break any laws, but rather perform the fundamental responsibility of a neighbor who cares.

Doing nothing illegal or improper, he follows the individual while answering all the questions from the 9-1-1 operator to the best of his ability, keeping an eye on the individual so the authorities can hopefully intercept and determine exactly what is going on.

For reasons unknown, though I will comment on momentarily, after expressing racism and hostility on the phone to a friend in response to being followed, the suspect now changes course and turns towards George and immediately initiates a hostile verbal confrontation that quickly escalate to a violent physical assault. Within seconds, the suspect has overwhelmed George, has gained the advantage on top, pinning George to the ground, and further escalates the assault to deadly force by smashing George?s face, breaking his nose, and violently slamming his skull onto the concrete with all his youthful athleticism.

George screams frantically for help as Trayvon Martin pummels his face and head furiously, inflicting damaging and potentially life threatening wounds. Fearing for his life and about to lose consciousness at the hands of an enraged, violent attacker, George Zimmerman does what anyone who wishes to live would do, and he reaches for his concealed handgun, firing a single shot to neutralize the deadly force being wreaked upon him.

This represents the purest form of self-defense there is. It is exactly why people who believe in good over evil carry a gun to protect themselves from the well documented violence that plagues our country, in order to save our lives from a life threatening attack. Period.

Based on all evidence available to them, the professional law enforcement officers did not hold George Zimmerman on charges later that night. They saw it for what it was: cut and dried self-defense.

And so it was for a few weeks until the race-baiting industry saw an opportunity to further the racist careers of Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, the Black Panthers. President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder, et al, who then swept down on the Florida community refusing to admit that the 17-year-old dope smoking, racist gangsta wannabe Trayvon Martin was at all responsible for his bad decisions and standard modus operendi of always taking the violent route.

With an obvious racist chip on his shoulder, referencing the neighborhood watch guy as a ?creepy ass cracker? to his fellow racist female friend who admitted under oath that that is how non-blacks are referred to normally in their circles, Trayvon had no reason not to attack, because it was the standard thug thing to do. See Chicago any day of the week.

With nearly 700 examples of this truism played out in Chicago in 2012 alone, no one can possibly dispute the recent surge in black racism increasing throughout Barack Obama?s presidency. To attempt to claim otherwise is a laughable lie.

The jury got it right, and non-racist America rejoices that there is still common sense, honesty and decency aware of identifying justice in this country. America also believes that the entire prosecutorial team should be ashamed of themselves and disbarred for ignoring the obvious and kowtowing to the pure racism that forced the politically correct lie that only black lives killed by non-blacks matter, which is why there are no headlines, no protests, no prosecutions and no Barak Obama or Eric Holder meddling in the nonstop black-on-black slaughter in their gun-free zone of Chicago.

Martin Luther King Jr. is rolling over in his grave that he sacrificed his life for the cause of judging people by the content of their character instead of the color of their skin, as so many of his own race carry in in self-destructive behavior while professional race mongers blame everything on racism. It is painful and heartbreaking to say and write this, but horrifically it is true. Blacks kill more blacks in a weekend in Chicago than the evil, vile Ku Klux Klan idiots did in 50 years. Truly earth shattering insane. And not a peep from Obama or Holder. Tragic.

The only racism on that night was perpetrated by Trayvon Martin, and everybody knows it.

Here?s the lesson from all this, America: Teach your children to not attack people for no good reason whatsoever. Conduct yourself in a responsible, civil manner, and everything will be just fine. Try to kill someone and that someone just may be exercising his or her Second Amendment rights and you could get shot. It?s called self-defense, and it is the oldest, strongest and most righteous instinct and God-given right known to man.
- See more at: http://rare.us/story/nugent-zimmerm...merSite&SFBState=Unknown#sthash.tWpkolzH.dpuf

 

[500bbc]

Everyone?

How about a head count. 1% of the US population would be over 3 million people protesting. No? 0.1% of the US population would be over 300,000 people. Still no? One thousandth of one percent of the US population would be about 3500 people. That sounds closer to accurate, to me.

I think the president's words on the subject were salient. I will be extremely surprised if the case is tried again but the stand your ground law may end up being contested.

Nope, not a federal beef tommy. Stand your ground or variance thereof is a state law on the books in over thirty states.

Do you even know what it means? It means you don't have to give up and run away, you know, go French.

You are still free to do so any time you're confronted by 'natives "again.

 

[was thatguy]

Then you must respect the court for adhering to law & procedure on this one. Similar scenario, domestic argument, but instead of killing the person, the lady shoots the wall not injuring anyone. Arguing the "Stand Your Ground" defense, same as Zimmerman. She was sentenced to a mandatory 20 years, for firing a warning shot:

http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-trial-turns-spotlight-another-florida-self-defense-005758230.html

I would say that this women was screwed by Zimmerman.
Meaning that he sucked all the media and focus away from more pedestrian cases such as hers.
So it's JJ's fault for being late to her party.

 

[DtB]

I read that Trayvon weighed 158

 

[fly2hii]

I wonder how much press this would have gotten if Zimmerman would have been the one to take the bullet?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

 

[Old Texan]

Then you must respect the court for adhering to law & procedure on this one. Similar scenario, domestic argument, but instead of killing the person, the lady shoots the wall not injuring anyone. Arguing the "Stand Your Ground" defense, same as Zimmerman. She was sentenced to a mandatory 20 years, for firing a warning shot:

http://news.yahoo.com/zimmerman-trial-turns-spotlight-another-florida-self-defense-005758230.html

Alexander filed a "Stand Your Ground" claim, but a judge ruled against her because Alexander chose to go back into the house with her gun.

Few people actually understand "Stand Your Ground" as a defense. When claimed, each case is offered up to a Judge who decides on the spot if it qualifies. Since she left and came back, SYG was dismissed.

You are correct, the court did it's job.

With the political pressure and the idiot Angela Corey pushing, Zimmerman wasn't allowed a fair defense on SYG. He was tried on 2nd degree murder, which in itself was not a correct charge per the majority of legal experts analyzing his case, and he won because the prosecution failed to present a case that lived up to what 2nd degree is, then they ruled against manslaughter which was thrown in as cover/backup charge. Zimmerman was viewed as acting in self defense.

The other case is entirely different form Zimmerman's and shouldn't be compared.

How about the NY state case where a black homeowner shot and killed a white teen who was breaking into cars with his 2 friends? The homeowner was ruled innocent for shooting in self defense. The white kid's family and friends are crying foul but it hardly is even a blip on the news. Shows more and more the Zim/Mar Circus is media driven and far too many folks right up to the WH are throwing fuel on the fire trying to make it into a racist event.

 

[Old Texan]

I wonder how much press this would have gotten if Zimmerman would have been the one to take the bullet?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk 2

None outside the local news.

 

[Faceaz]

Few people actually understand "Stand Your Ground" as a defense. When claimed, each case is offered up to a Judge who decides on the spot if it qualifies. Since she left and came back, SYG was dismissed.

You are correct, the court did it's job.

With the political pressure and the idiot Angela Corey pushing, Zimmerman wasn't allowed a fair defense on SYG. He was tried on 2nd degree murder, which in itself was not a correct charge per the majority of legal experts analyzing his case, and he won because the prosecution failed to present a case that lived up to what 2nd degree is, then they ruled against manslaughter which was thrown in as cover/backup charge. Zimmerman was viewed as acting in self defense.

The other case is entirely different form Zimmerman's and shouldn't be compared.

How about the NY state case where a black homeowner shot and killed a white teen who was breaking into cars with his 2 friends? The homeowner was ruled innocent for shooting in self defense. The white kid's family and friends are crying foul but it hardly is even a blip on the news. Shows more and more the Zim/Mar Circus is media driven and far too many folks right up to the WH are throwing fuel on the fire trying to make it into a racist event.

I understand you think the courts are doing a fine job.... I think they are being inconsistent. Possibly following the letter of the law, but the laws / punishment have become completely inconsistent with the severity of the crime.

 

[Cdog]

I read that Trayvon weighed 158

158+ 147 Grains.skull

 

[Instigator]

I understand you think the courts are doing a fine job.... I think they are being inconsistent. Possibly following the letter of the law, but the laws / punishment have become completely inconsistent with the severity of the crime.

The Jury decided that there wasn't a crime in the Zimmerman case.:thumbup:

 

[Old Texan]

I understand you think the courts are doing a fine job.... I think they are being inconsistent. Possibly following the letter of the law, but the laws / punishment have become completely inconsistent with the severity of the crime.

And I understand you garner your facts and make your decisions based on personal observation and assumptions. Or so it seems. The 2 cases you presented were completely different scenarios. Plus one had outside intervention based on political reasons.
I'm basing my opinions on listening to the reasonings of legal experts. My take is just my opinion, but I've at least tried to reach my conclusions based on opinions from legal professionals. And even those have to be drilled down as to get to the base facts of the legal system itself.

Please explain the inconsistencies you perceive the courts to be making and from what perspective you've followed to get there.

 

[Paul65k]

I understand you think the courts are doing a fine job.... I think they are being inconsistent. Possibly following the letter of the law, but the laws / punishment have become completely inconsistent with the severity of the crime.

The Jury decided that there wasn't a crime in the Zimmerman case.:thumbup:

Hmmm..........Seems that they may not be as inconsistent as they are inconsistent with the way some people feel their idea of the verdicts should go!

Any chance that we (I'll include myself in this) are only coming to these conclusions based on the soundbites we get through various sources vs. sitting through each and every case and then making a conclusion.......even then without the benefit of legal expertise??:hmm

 

[DtB]

158+ 147 Grains.skull

That's what you see
What I see is a kid that coulda dropped a couple of pounds and probably boxed 147
He's a spittin image of a young man I coach who is currently at Ft Leonard Wood in Missouri
fulfilling his military end of a school scholarship and will be back in our gym in the fall.
But yeah Zimmerman was within the law to shoot him and Trayvon got what he deserved, if that makes you happy,
you're different from me.

 

[Old Texan]

That's what you see
What I see is a kid that coulda dropped a couple of pounds and probably boxed 147
He's a spittin image of a young man I coach who is currently at Ft Leonard Wood in Missouri
fulfilling his military end of a school scholarship and will be back in our gym in the fall.
But yeah Zimmerman was within the law to shoot him and Trayvon got what he deserved, if that makes you happy,
you're different from me.

I follow where you're coming from as far as trou8bled kids' potentials. I also realize every kid can't/won't be saved. Aaron Hernandez comes to mind.

Trayvon didn't get what he deserved so much as he got what he earned. He could have gone back to his apartment but from the court testimony, he did not.

No matter the rhetoric on this forum or anywhere else, the issue is not that folks are happy Trayvon got shot. They are saddened that it had to end as it did. Good chance that if Zimmerman had not been armed he would have been beaten soundly. I know at least 6 incidents personally of death or long term damage resulting from street/bar fights. The evidence concluded Trayvon was the aggressor in the physical portion of the episode. He didn't deserve to die, but Zimmerman didn't deserve to get beaten either.

The whole incident like so many others was avoidable.

 

[Faceaz]

And I understand you garner your facts and make your decisions based on personal observation and assumptions. Or so it seems. The 2 cases you presented were completely different scenarios. Plus one had outside intervention based on political reasons.
I'm basing my opinions on listening to the reasonings of legal experts. My take is just my opinion, but I've at least tried to reach my conclusions based on opinions from legal professionals. And even those have to be drilled down as to get to the base facts of the legal system itself.

Please explain the inconsistencies you perceive the courts to be making and from what perspective you've followed to get there.

- She had never been in trouble with the law.
- They were estranged & she was living at her mother's house.
- He went to her mother's house & had held her against her will in the bathroom.
- She already had a Protective Order against him, the system had determined he was a threat to her.
- She stood her ground, in her mother's house, to a person who was there unlawfully.

I would bet 10 to 1 that nearly every person here would feel it's their right to maintain the sanctity of their home & not legally have to abandon their house because of an intruder. I don't see the person in this case, who was physically restrained yet did not injure a sole, deserving of 20 years in prison.

The Trevon Martin shooting was avoidable, had he heeded the advise of the dispatcher. Zimmerman had the option of avoiding it, Martin may or may not have. IMO, this case really comes down to who actually started the physical altercation & unfortunately there's only 1 side of the story to be told.

I believe based on the severity of the resulting injuries (Instigator), the laws / verdicts are inconsistent.

 

[Faceaz]

Any chance that we (I'll include myself in this) are only coming to these conclusions based on the soundbites we get through various sources vs. sitting through each and every case and then making a conclusion.......even then without the benefit of legal expertise??:hmm

Yes :thumbsup

 

[Paul65k]

Yes :thumbsup

 

[squeezer]

.... Good chance that if Zimmerman had not been armed he would have been beaten soundly...

And an even better chance that he would not have tried to play tough guy and follow the suspicious looking teenager.

 

[WTRR]

And an even better chance that he would not have tried to play tough guy and follow the suspicious looking teenager.

Did you watch any of the trial? The defense in their closing arguments asked the court for 4 minutes of silence. That was the amount of time that passed by after GZ told the 911 operator that he had lost the suspect and the time of the attack. They played the tape and listened to the conversation and GZ returned to a spot to wait on the police to arrive. Four minutes of total silence in the court room seemed like an hour. After the time had elapsed, the defense attorney simply asked the question of what was TM thinking for that four minutes. He could have walked on home totally unharmed but he chose to return and confront GZ. The evidence supported that and the jury also saw it that way. TM had the chance to walk on home but he chose to return and confront a creepy ass cracker. He fucked up. End of story. Move on...

 

[Paul65k]

And an even better chance that he would not have tried to play tough guy and follow the suspicious looking teenager.

You don't know that.......PERIOD!!!!!

 

[squeezer]

You don't know that.......PERIOD!!!!!

A bit of a syntax/context lesson for you.

When somebody posts something with the phrase in it that includes a reference to "chance" they probably don't know it for sure. I will use OT's post as an example.

Good chance that if Zimmerman had not been armed he would have been beaten soundly.

OT doesn't "Know that.....PERIOD!!!!!!" but we can all agree that there was a good chance of Zimmerman getting his ass handed to him.

In the same line of thinking I bet there is an equal if not better chance that GZ would have known that as well and would not have taken the same action he took without the concealed handgun.

 

[Instigator]

Hey Squeezer.
Why aren't you out protesting with all the other idiots rather than posting your Opinions here?
I am sure that they would find your opinions better to their liking that we do.

 

[squeezer]

Hey Squeezer.
Why aren't you out protesting with all the other idiots rather than posting your Opinions here?
I am sure that they would find your opinions better to their liking that we do.

Why on earth would I need you to like my opinion??? I would much rather my opinion challenge peoples assumptions and prompt the debate.

 

[was thatguy]

Why on earth would I need you to like my opinion??? I would much rather my opinion challenge peoples assumptions and prompt the debate.

Your opinions do not challenge assumptions.
Your opinions, in this case, challenge what was found to be "true" according to testimony, evidence, and a verdict by jury.
I think it is indicative of your normal BS. Your "MO" as it were.

Just keep shoveling out your lame ass drivel.
If nothing else it is entertaining at times, kind of like a political section jester, but more stupid than funny.

 

[was thatguy]

Hey squeeze. I copied this from around the way. I couldn't copy and paste the picture, but if you google the name there are images available. Cute kid. Or was.
Opinion?




Hello. Don?t recognize me? That?s OK; I understand.



My name was Antonio West. I was the 13-month old child who was shot in the face at point blank range by two black teens, who were attempting to rob my mother, who was also shot.



I think my murder and my mommy?s wounding made the news for maybe a day, and then disappeared.



A Grand Jury of my mommy's peers from Brunswick , Georgia ruled the black teens who murdered me will not face the death penalty... too bad it was me who got the death sentence from my killers instead, because Mommy didn?t have the money they demanded.


See, my family made the mistake of being white in a 73% non-white neighborhood, but my murder wasn?t ruled a ?hate crime?.



Oh, and President Obama didn?t take a single moment to acknowledge my murder. He couldn?t have any children who could possibly look like me - so why should he care?

I?m one of the youngest murder victims in our great Nation's history, but the media didn?t care to cover the story of my being killed in cold blood.

There isn?t a white equivalent of Al Sharpton, because if there was he would be branded a ?racist?. So no one?s rushing to Brunswick , Georgia to demonstrate and demand ?justice? for me. There?s no ?White Panther? party, either, to put a bounty on the lives of the two black teens who murdered me.



I have no voice, I have no representation, and unlike those who shot me in the face while I sat innocently in my stroller - I no longer have my life.



Isn?t this a great country?

So while you?re out seeking ?justice for Trayvon?, please remember to seek ?justice? for me. Tell your friends about me, tell you families, get tee-shirts with my face on them, and make the world pay attention, just like you did for Trayvon.

I won?t hold my breath.



I don?t have to anymore.

 

[squeezer]

Hey squeeze. I copied this from around the way. I couldn't copy and paste the picture, but if you google the name there are images available. Cute kid. Or was.
Opinion?




Hello. Don?t recognize me? That?s OK; I understand.



My name was Antonio West. I was the 13-month old child who was shot in the face at point blank range by two black teens, who were attempting to rob my mother, who was also shot.



I think my murder and my mommy?s wounding made the news for maybe a day, and then disappeared.



A Grand Jury of my mommy's peers from Brunswick , Georgia ruled the black teens who murdered me will not face the death penalty... too bad it was me who got the death sentence from my killers instead, because Mommy didn?t have the money they demanded.


See, my family made the mistake of being white in a 73% non-white neighborhood, but my murder wasn?t ruled a ?hate crime?.



Oh, and President Obama didn?t take a single moment to acknowledge my murder. He couldn?t have any children who could possibly look like me - so why should he care?

I?m one of the youngest murder victims in our great Nation's history, but the media didn?t care to cover the story of my being killed in cold blood.

There isn?t a white equivalent of Al Sharpton, because if there was he would be branded a ?racist?. So no one?s rushing to Brunswick , Georgia to demonstrate and demand ?justice? for me. There?s no ?White Panther? party, either, to put a bounty on the lives of the two black teens who murdered me.



I have no voice, I have no representation, and unlike those who shot me in the face while I sat innocently in my stroller - I no longer have my life.



Isn?t this a great country?

So while you?re out seeking ?justice for Trayvon?, please remember to seek ?justice? for me. Tell your friends about me, tell you families, get tee-shirts with my face on them, and make the world pay attention, just like you did for Trayvon.

I won?t hold my breath.



I don?t have to anymore.

OK... I'll bite. What do you want to do about it? This is as tragic if not more (Way more by my standards) than the TM execution. And the last time I checked there were not many people on this board who would even acknowledge we have a gun violence problem in this country let alone suggest any sort of workable solution to it.

 

[squeezer]

Your opinions do not challenge assumptions.
Your opinions, in this case, challenge what was found to be "true" according to testimony, evidence, and a verdict by jury.
I think it is indicative of your normal BS. Your "MO" as it were.

Just keep shoveling out your lame ass drivel.
If nothing else it is entertaining at times, kind of like a political section jester, but more stupid than funny.

Isn't it just a bit of an irony that you claim I don't challenge assumptions but then type "true" in quotes above... (Not that anything I type could penetrate your bullet proof intellect on a conscious level... but down deep just maybe there is hope for you yet)

 

[was thatguy]

Isn't it just a bit of an irony that you claim I don't challenge assumptions but then type "true" in quotes above... (Not that anything I type could penetrate your bullet proof intellect on a conscious level... but down deep just maybe there is hope for you yet)

Wow. That went STRAIGHT over your head, didn't it?

 

[Old Texan]

And the last time I checked there were not many people on this board who would even acknowledge we have a gun violence problem in this country let alone suggest any sort of workable solution to it.

Guns are just the delivery medium for the violent acts of out of control people. Why is the AG and others not focusing on stopping these people and the environment that inspires/creates/supports them?

I've yet to se a gun load itself and go out and shoot someone. The gun requires a willing and violent human being.

These same people would just switch to another weapon if guns were removed from society. And removing guns would put innocent people in danger.

Why make responsible gun owners change what they do because irresponsible gun owners/thieves create problems???????

Why don't the real issues receive the attention and demands for change???????

 

[squeezer]

Guns are just the delivery medium for the violent acts of out of control people. Why is the AG and others not focusing on stopping these people and the environment that inspires/creates/supports them?

I've yet to se a gun load itself and go out and shoot someone. The gun requires a willing and violent human being.

These same people would just switch to another weapon if guns were removed from society. And removing guns would put innocent people in danger.

Why make responsible gun owners change what they do because irresponsible gun owners/thieves create problems???????

Why don't the real issues receive the attention and demands for change???????

I would argue that this is not a penal problem but a social one...

We have the highest incarceration rate of any developed nation on earth. The population in our prisons is overwhelmingly black... The AG is doing his job and then some in this respect. Thinking we can fix this or even influence it with courts and prisons is stupid.

Overlay violence and poverty on the same map and you will get a 1:1 correlation in pretty much any city you care to examine. Poverty goes hand in hand with lack of education...


So here is a question for the right wingers on the board.

Would you rather feed/educate or incarcerate?

And the line that guns don't kill people is starting to wear pretty thin.

 

[Mr. C]

So here is a question for the right wingers on the board.

Would you rather feed/educate or incarcerate?

Aren't we doing all 3 right now?

 

[poncho]

Guns are just the delivery medium for the violent acts of out of control people. Why is the AG and others not focusing on stopping these people and the environment that inspires/creates/supports them?

I've yet to se a gun load itself and go out and shoot someone. The gun requires a willing and violent human being.

These same people would just switch to another weapon if guns were removed from society. And removing guns would put innocent people in danger.

Why make responsible gun owners change what they do because irresponsible gun owners/thieves create problems???????

Why don't the real issues receive the attention and demands for change???????

That is about as clear and concise as it gets. You cannot disarm honest people and leave them at the mercy of the dishonest ones. Either every one gets to defend themselves or no one does, don't give the bad guy the edge....I can't believe any one can find a counter argument.

I would argue that this is not a penal problem but a social one...

We have the highest incarceration rate of any developed nation on earth. The population in our prisons is overwhelmingly black... The AG is doing his job and then some in this respect. Thinking we can fix this or even influence it with courts and prisons is stupid.

Overlay violence and poverty on the same map and you will get a 1:1 correlation in pretty much any city you care to examine. Poverty goes hand in hand with lack of education...


So here is a question for the right wingers on the board.

Would you rather feed/educate or incarcerate?

And the line that guns don't kill people is starting to wear pretty thin.

No easy answer here. Trying to help people that either don't want it or don't appreciate it has no end game either.

 

[WTRR]

I would argue that this is not a penal problem but a social one...

We have the highest incarceration rate of any developed nation on earth. The population in our prisons is overwhelmingly black... The AG is doing his job and then some in this respect. Thinking we can fix this or even influence it with courts and prisons is stupid.

Overlay violence and poverty on the same map and you will get a 1:1 correlation in pretty much any city you care to examine. Poverty goes hand in hand with lack of education...


So here is a question for the right wingers on the board.

Would you rather feed/educate or incarcerate?

And the line that guns don't kill people is starting to wear pretty thin.

Maybe Bill O'Reilly can shed a little light on the problem...talking points from 7/22

Total grand slam outta the park, but some people have a hard time with the truth.

http://www.billoreilly.com/video?chartID=556&vid=880310020969520385

 

[Old Texan]

I would argue that this is not a penal problem but a social one...

We have the highest incarceration rate of any developed nation on earth. The population in our prisons is overwhelmingly black... The AG is doing his job and then some in this respect. Thinking we can fix this or even influence it with courts and prisons is stupid.

Overlay violence and poverty on the same map and you will get a 1:1 correlation in pretty much any city you care to examine. Poverty goes hand in hand with lack of education...


So here is a question for the right wingers on the board.

Would you rather feed/educate or incarcerate?

And the line that guns don't kill people is starting to wear pretty thin.

The AG and his boss are more than willing comment on incident after incident that is out of their job description, so why should they not offer up some creative options to end the real issues of violence?

Educate the offenders? Let's use college sports as example of where that gets us. Look to "the" Ohio State University, as some proudly emphasize the "the"....4 players, 2 starting stars have been suspended for off field violent actions in the past couple weeks. Kids who have full ride scholarships and potential big money in the NFL, if not big money in college, special privileges at least. What is education doing for them?

How many Bloods and Crips are being offered higher (or lower for that matter) education to change their change ways? How many would accept it and change if offered? How many street corner drug dealers or teen age runners would take a minimum wage job and a seat in a high end school to give up the neighborhood prestige among bandits and the money they make?

Squeeze, like the AG and the voices of the society that spawns the criminals, you are missing in action when a solution......

By the way the guns don't kill line may be thin, but it's a fact.

Educating them and giving them good grades to get a job is growing far more thin and it is no where near a fact of being a working solution.

 

[squeezer]

That is about as clear and concise as it gets. You cannot disarm honest people and leave them at the mercy of the dishonest ones. Either every one gets to defend themselves or no one does, don't give the bad guy the edge....I can't believe any one can find a counter argument.



No easy answer here. Trying to help people that either don't want it or don't appreciate it has no end game either.

Why is it that anytime the topic of gun violence prevention comes up the right jumps to the conclusion that the end result is going to be disarming honest people.


Do drivers licenses keep good drivers off the road?

What about registering your car? How about insurance???


Why in the hell is setting a minimum standard of fitness (mental, physical, tactical, storage) with respect to gun ownership so scary to people?

 

[squeezer]

The AG and his boss are more than willing comment on incident after incident that is out of their job description, so why should they not offer up some creative options to end the real issues of violence?

Educate the offenders? Let's use college sports as example of where that gets us. Look to "the" Ohio State University, as some proudly emphasize the "the"....4 players, 2 starting stars have been suspended for off field violent actions in the past couple weeks. Kids who have full ride scholarships and potential big money in the NFL, if not big money in college, special privileges at least. What is education doing for them?

How many Bloods and Crips are being offered higher (or lower for that matter) education to change their change ways? How many would accept it and change if offered? How many street corner drug dealers or teen age runners would take a minimum wage job and a seat in a high end school to give up the neighborhood prestige among bandits and the money they make?

Squeeze, like the AG and the voices of the society that spawns the criminals, you are missing in action when a solution......

By the way the guns don't kill line may be thin, but it's a fact.

Educating them and giving them good grades to get a job is growing far more thin and it is no where near a fact of being a working solution.

Poverty leads to violence... You can dance around the issue all you want but the fundamental problem is we would rather take care of corporations than people.

Kids are not born wanting to join gangs. But they are born into situations where that is the best option they have. As far as being MIA when a solution is required I think you underestimate the value I put on preventing the problem in the first place rather than dealing with the symptoms. Social safety nets and education seed opportunity. Opportunity gives people that chance to make better choices. Thats my working solution, a population of high school seniors that can not only afford to continue their education but also have the reading/math/science skill to be qualified to.

 

[Paul65k]

Poverty leads to violence...

And I would opine that all the entitlement programs available (Food Stamps, Welfare, 99 Weeks of unemployment, etc....) lead to dependency and laziness that ultimately drive even more poverty....it's a vicious circle and each and every one of these programs were designed to help the poor and underprivileged, they have had the opposite effect which in the end makes them nothing but MORE poor and underprivileged.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[was thatguy]

Why is it that anytime the topic of gun violence prevention comes up the right jumps to the conclusion that the end result is going to be disarming honest people.


Do drivers licenses keep good drivers off the road?

What about registering your car? How about insurance???


Why in the hell is setting a minimum standard of fitness (mental, physical, tactical, storage) with respect to gun ownership so scary to people?

Using your analogy.
How many people pulled over at, say, 03:00 hours for expired tags (or anything really) have no license, no insurance, no current registration, and have dope, booze, and weapons in the car?

Your gun restrictions do nothing to lower crime. Either from so called criminals or from people who may just snap. A cursory examination of any of the gun restricted cities bears this out.

Also, if I posses any of the everyday equipment I had in Alaska, which is 100% legal there, I will go straight to jail here in Kalifornia. Why??

 

[was thatguy]

Poverty leads to violence... You can dance around the issue all you want but the fundamental problem is we would rather take care of corporations than people.

Kids are not born wanting to join gangs. But they are born into situations where that is the best option they have. As far as being MIA when a solution is required I think you underestimate the value I put on preventing the problem in the first place rather than dealing with the symptoms. Social safety nets and education seed opportunity. Opportunity gives people that chance to make better choices. Thats my working solution, a population of high school seniors that can not only afford to continue their education but also have the reading/math/science skill to be qualified to.

Define "best".

How many corners you been on?
I've been on a few. EVERY dope dealer I have known, and trust me it is more than a few, would NEVER give up that EASY money.
You make it sound like these kids are trapped. They are not.

The Black Men that know this do NOT blame whites, the "Man", or anyone other than the kids themselves.
They are roundly and quickly shouted down before their message can be heard.
The easy way is the short term profitable way, for the kids, the entitlement promoters such as the regime you support, and of course the racism machine.

It is sad that people like yourself, who are apparently not exactly stupid, can be so misaligned with cause and perpetuation.

 

[Dan Lorenze]

I haven't read this entire thread and don't know if this has been posted yet, but this is a good read.
http://pjmedia.com/blog/the-lynching/

 

[squeezer]

And I would opine that all the entitlement programs available (Food Stamps, Welfare, 99 Weeks of unemployment, etc....) lead to dependency and laziness that ultimately drive even more poverty....it's a vicious circle and each and every one of these programs were designed to help the poor and underprivileged, they have had the opposite effect which in the end makes them nothing but MORE poor and underprivileged.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I don't believe for a moment that social safety nets cause poverty/dependency/laziness but will acknowledge there are a visible minority that make it look that way.

Having said that, lets suppose for a minute you are given absolute control over this countries social programs and your number one goal is to reduce violence.

Your budget consists of the entire prison budget, the entire welfare budget, and 50% of the municipal court budget. You will be rewarded with 10% of the money you save over a 20 year period but will only be given that money if you have met a stated goal of 50% violence reduction sustained for 5 years at the end of those 20 years.

How do you spend the $$$

Build more prisons right now...
Bolster at risk education systems...
Etc etc...

Tell me what you think turns this ship around.

 

[WTRR]

Thats my working solution, a population of high school seniors that can not only afford to continue their education but also have the reading/math/science skill to be qualified to.

Brilliant idea...who is going to make them get up and go to school and do their homework? You going to be that person?

This fine city I reside in has just surrendered their school charter and turned the entire Memphis City School system over to the county to run. You see, they had this little problem...they spent more money per student than any
other school system in the state but the TCAP scores for the city were in the lower 1/3 of the entire state. The school budget for last year was $1.7 Billion...just for the school system mind you. That averaged out to about $16,000 spent per student.

I put my five kids through private school from Grades 1-12. My youngest is a senior this year and his tuition is a little over $13,000. That's the highest I've ever paid...it keeps going up a little each year along with everything else.

So the question to ask is how come such a difference between the cost of a private versus public high school education. This is the best all boy's school in Memphis. Graduation rate is 100% the sports program is one of the top five in the state and the racial makeup is probably 65% white to 35% minority students. The Memphis City School system is 98% black and except for White Station High school and Central High School every high school failed to meet minimum scores on their TCAP tests.

So now the city is handing it over to the County school system which is 85% white and is ranked in the top 10 percent of TCAP scores in the state. The unified school system will officially begin in two weeks when schools reopen after summer break.

And for the last month or so there's been a steady parade of black politicians on the news jumping up and down and screaming that there aren't enough black school board members on the board. They don't give a fuck about the kids, don't give a fuck about the low test scores, just get me on TV so I can raise a bitch and talk about it come election time.

So throw all the money and social programs at the poverty problem that you can...that won't fix anything. You need a strong family unit to keep kids from getting in trouble and keep them in school. Every one of my kids got the best education I could afford to give them and you can bet your ass I stayed on them like stink on shit. Bad grades meant Daddy and Momma weren't going to be happy. I told them starting at a very early age...there is no excuse for bad grades. When they screwed up they paid for it.

The problem with your working solution is that you are leaving the most important part out of the solution...the PARENTS.

 

[Old Texan]

Poverty leads to violence... You can dance around the issue all you want but the fundamental problem is we would rather take care of corporations than people.

Kids are not born wanting to join gangs. But they are born into situations where that is the best option they have. As far as being MIA when a solution is required I think you underestimate the value I put on preventing the problem in the first place rather than dealing with the symptoms. Social safety nets and education seed opportunity. Opportunity gives people that chance to make better choices. Thats my working solution, a population of high school seniors that can not only afford to continue their education but also have the reading/math/science skill to be qualified to.

So how are "you" preventing the problem? And your AG and his boss, won't even address the problem. How many kids need to die in Chicago with all it's IL gun laws in effect to wake you folks up to your plan that is dong absolutely nothing to curb the violence. Where's the prevention? Apparently the only black kids in Chicago that got opportunity were trailing their pop to DC.

What happened in Detroit to your prevention plan? What happened to the participants and resulting humans of the 74% of out of wedlock birth in the black community? What opportunity did they miss and whose fault is it?

Good grief, do something about the gangs and the portion of society that glamorizes it. Whitey gets the blame for keeping black kids down, yet it's whitey, for the most part, that funds the institutions and offers the grants to attract the kids from low places. It's the denizens of low places that make the kids feel like traitors If they leave. They resent the kids that try and escape and do their best to employ them, hook them, or kill them. Mean while white guilt feeling fools want to limit the access of law abiding citizens who legally possess and responsibly own their guns. People that aren't part of the 94% of the black community that have murdered other blacks.

Opportunity is there, it just isn't being used and is being denied by the gangs and community organizers who feed off the strife.

Again where's your alternative "best" solution and your plan to clear the way of the societal impedance that keeps any positive plan and escape from happening???????

And I would opine that all the entitlement programs available (Food Stamps, Welfare, 99 Weeks of unemployment, etc....) lead to dependency and laziness that ultimately drive even more poverty....it's a vicious circle and each and every one of these programs were designed to help the poor and underprivileged, they have had the opposite effect which in the end makes them nothing but MORE poor and underprivileged.

Exactly, they don't use programs as a stepping stone, they use them as a way of life. Pure abuse of the system.

 

[Old Texan]

Black males between the ages of 13 and 59 represent only 4% of the US population but commit over 60% of all violent crimes, rapes, murders, and armed robberies.

Maybe Holder, O, and squeeze need to work on solving this statistic......

 

[Old Texan]

I don't believe for a moment that social safety nets cause poverty/dependency/laziness but will acknowledge there are a visible minority that make it look that way.

Having said that, lets suppose for a minute you are given absolute control over this countries social programs and your number one goal is to reduce violence.

Your budget consists of the entire prison budget, the entire welfare budget, and 50% of the municipal court budget. You will be rewarded with 10% of the money you save over a 20 year period but will only be given that money if you have met a stated goal of 50% violence reduction sustained for 5 years at the end of those 20 years.

How do you spend the $$$

Build more prisons right now...
Bolster at risk education systems...
Etc etc...

Tell me what you think turns this ship around.

If you put as much thought into a solution as you did into your little anecdotal challenge, you might find some type of creative solution......Check out the WVA soph defensive tackle who's sitting in jail in Morgantown, WV after being ID'd as an armed home invader because he had his numbered program issued practice sweatpants on during the crime. You can't face that these kids don't care about getting educated, they need "Tat" money NOW.

That is the whole basis of the issue, they want and they take, fuck the rest of society. Then again maybe the "9" being held sideways was in control of the situation.....Guns have their own mind in the minds of fools ya know.:rolleyes

You're trying to change the result portion of societal segment that won't change it's core beliefs in order to make positive results possible. For every kid that reads a school book to get educated, you have 3 who steal it to sell it or destroy it so no one can benefit from it. Hate and resentment is ingrained in these kids and the loop has to be broken or nothing changes.......Squeeze on that thought and maybe yer ass'll wake up one day.

 

[poncho]

Why is it that anytime the topic of gun violence prevention comes up the right jumps to the conclusion that the end result is going to be disarming honest people.


Do drivers licenses keep good drivers off the road?

What about registering your car? How about insurance???


Why in the hell is setting a minimum standard of fitness (mental, physical, tactical, storage) with respect to gun ownership so scary to people?

I have no problem with preventing the wrong people from owning gun's. The problem is the wrong people don't wait for their application to go through, they get them off the streets. If you make having a handgun in public illegal i wont take the chance but the guy that's in between prison stay's has his and now i become his victim because the lib's thought the bad guy would play nice when told.

What scares most people is once a few small law's get through then the dam is opened to eventual disarmament of honest folk's (research 911 and the resulting intrusions into our civil liberties).

I just don't think it can be done, there are too many out there to try to control them so once again go after the source not the tool.

The media is funding the gun show. Recent shootings in nice neighborhoods sell advertising dollars not the daily shots that gangs lob at each other. So once again the cute cheerleader abducted from her home in the suburbs is all the news but 52 prostitutes all killed by the same man isn't even noticed till the toll is in the 40's.

People need to stop watching Nancy Grace.....she's not a real journalist.

 

[RUNNINHOTRACING163.1]

Brilliant idea...who is going to make them get up and go to school and do their homework? You going to be that person?

This fine city I reside in has just surrendered their school charter and turned the entire Memphis City School system over to the county to run. You see, they had this little problem...they spent more money per student than any
other school system in the state but the TCAP scores for the city were in the lower 1/3 of the entire state. The school budget for last year was $1.7 Billion...just for the school system mind you. That averaged out to about $16,000 spent per student.

I put my five kids through private school from Grades 1-12. My youngest is a senior this year and his tuition is a little over $13,000. That's the highest I've ever paid...it keeps going up a little each year along with everything else.

So the question to ask is how come such a difference between the cost of a private versus public high school education. This is the best all boy's school in Memphis. Graduation rate is 100% the sports program is one of the top five in the state and the racial makeup is probably 65% white to 35% minority students. The Memphis City School system is 98% black and except for White Station High school and Central High School every high school failed to meet minimum scores on their TCAP tests.

So now the city is handing it over to the County school system which is 85% white and is ranked in the top 10 percent of TCAP scores in the state. The unified school system will officially begin in two weeks when schools reopen after summer break.

And for the last month or so there's been a steady parade of black politicians on the news jumping up and down and screaming that there aren't enough black school board members on the board. They don't give a fuck about the kids, don't give a fuck about the low test scores, just get me on TV so I can raise a bitch and talk about it come election time.

So throw all the money and social programs at the poverty problem that you can...that won't fix anything. You need a strong family unit to keep kids from getting in trouble and keep them in school. Every one of my kids got the best education I could afford to give them and you can bet your ass I stayed on them like stink on shit. Bad grades meant Daddy and Momma weren't going to be happy. I told them starting at a very early age...there is no excuse for bad grades. When they screwed up they paid for it.

The problem with your working solution is that you are leaving the most important part out of the solution...the PARENTS.

:thumbup::thumbup:




http://www.ebay.com/itm/LED-BOAT-DR..._Accessories_Gear&hash=item2c6a7d116a&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BLUE-4-LED-...568?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c6fd92428

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-BOAT-TR..._Accessories_Gear&hash=item3cb4089d56&vxp=mtr



ROCK ON !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ITS A SKATER NATION !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!