The OCM saga has come to a close

[Dalw]

Who's got a picture of Ruby?

there is a picture of Tim and Ruby a few pages on if you keep reading the thread.

 

[eddie]

So the party during Desert Storm is off in 2016 then? Man they always had Bud Light Lime on tap, that's hard to find! All kidding aside sorry to hear about the people that lost/loosing money. Tim and his wife were likable people from the little time I spent with them.

 

[Tank]

Tim and his wife were likable people form the little time I spend with them.

Most con men are that's the problem!!

My buddy just called me thanking me for finally talking him into everything. The guy that "bought" the boat showed up to get it an hour after he picked it up. He was just blown away at how convincing Tim was that everything was ok although the walls were closing in all around him.

 

[Enen]

Most con men are that's the problem!!

My buddy just called me thanking me for finally talking him into everything. The guy that "bought" the boat showed up to get it an hour after he picked it up. He was just blown away at how convincing Tim was that everything was ok although the walls were closing in all around him.

Glad to hear your buddy got his boat. Sucks for the buyer. What happened to his Conquest?

 

[Tank]

Glad to hear your buddy got his boat. Sucks for the buyer. What happened to his Conquest?

Reported it stolen and had a repo buddy help track it down. They found it and should be getting it back today. Again, sucks for the buyer.

 

[sirbob]

Most con men are that's the problem!!

My buddy just called me thanking me for finally talking him into everything. The guy that "bought" the boat showed up to get it an hour after he picked it up. He was just blown away at how convincing Tim was that everything was ok although the walls were closing in all around him.

Reported it stolen and had a repo buddy help track it down. They found it and should be getting it back today. Again, sucks for the buyer.

It will be interesting to see how that plays out - it's been said many times here in this topic, but I'm thinking the people that legally bought the boat from a broker that was legally given authority to sell... Might be the ones that are entitled to the boat.

I hate to say good for your buddy - that just means the others are screwed. On the other hand i'd like nothing better than to see Tim as the only one screwed in this deal.

Keep us posted what the police say about him taking the boat out from under the buyer and repoing the other one

 

[Tank]

It will be interesting to see how that plays out - it's been said many times here in this topic, but I'm thinking the people that legally bought the boat from a broker that was legally given authority to sell... Might be the ones that are entitled to the boat.

I hate to say good for your buddy - that just means the others are screwed. On the other hand i'd like nothing better than to see Tim as the only one screwed in this deal.

Keep us posted what the police say about him taking the boat out from under the buyer and repoing the other one

Yea. I understand where you're coming from and it sucks for everyone involved. Police were there when he got the eliminator and the guys releasing the eliminator knew the buyer and informed the police that the buyer was coming to get it. Boat was released to the title owner.

Regarding the conquest if it was sold it was sold with false or no documents. Havasu PD took the stolen vessel report so it's officially stolen. But yea, we'll see how it plays out.

 

[rivrrts429]

Yea. I understand where you're coming from and it sucks for everyone involved. Police were there when he got the eliminator and the guys releasing the eliminator knew the buyer and informed the police that the buyer was coming to get it. Boat was released to the title owner.

Regarding the conquest if it was sold it was sold with false or no documents. Havasu PD took the stolen vessel report so it's officially stolen. But yea, we'll see how it plays out.

That's what I was wondering, if he was one of those that gave over title or not.

Sounds like he held title.

Lots of collateral damage. It just keeps peeling away layers like an onion.

 

[Whitecaps]

Ex ocm had a man from Las Vegas come in today looking for his Laser boat, nothing there. an on an on an on it goes:grumble:.......

 

[Singleton]

Ex ocm had a man from Las Vegas come in today looking for his Laser boat, nothing there. an on an on an on it goes:grumble:.......

I think more and more of these folks will be popping up. Owners will be calling OCM to get an update and no answer will trigger them to finalize realize boat is gone and so is Tim.

 

[rrrr]

did you ever hear the ted binnion story??? thumb cuffs and beat the fuc out of leo with a phone book...I think tabish is still in the pen....

I have a cousin that was a Vegas pit boss in the 70's...those stories about baseball bats in the desert aren't made up fellas.

 

[spectracular]

I asked my wife about all of this. As an attorney, I wanted to get her opinion on all of this. Forewarning...this is all just her view on the matter as well as what she knows about this area of law. She does not specialize in this area. These are her opinions and nothing more.

Basically what she said was:

• FFFFUUUUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!
• the person who gave the boat to the broker should have been HIGHLY suspect about handing over the title...enough to suspect fraud right then and there, and enough to go elsewhere. Just because the broker was a smooth talker does not mean they should have handed over title...so it is partially the seller's fault for making this so easy.
• Timing is important: She said that the buyer of the boat, having believed that they were buying a boat though a legit transaction is offered protection and should keep the boat...however, after extended periods of time of not receiving title to the boat that they should suspect fraud. Having suspecting fraud, the buyer loses that protection...so it is partially the buyers fault for potentially not acting quick enough.
• Her general feeling was that this was a total cluster, but felt that the original owner should in most cases get their boat back because at some point the buyer should have suspected something was not right, and that the buyer would go to the broker to recoup their money.
• Because transactions were across multiple states, this should become a federal issue
• Because CG registered vessels were involved, this should become a federal issue
• If AZ chooses to, they can extradite broker to AZ to face charges (one hearing with multiple counts)
• Assuming person serves time in AZ, other states can also press charges and extradite in their state...rinse and repeat in the state of your choice

 

[2FORCEFULL]

I asked my wife about all of this. As an attorney, I wanted to get her opinion on all of this. Forewarning...this is all just her view on the matter as well as what she knows about this area of law. She does not specialize in this area. These are her opinions and nothing more.

Basically what she said was:

• FFFFUUUUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!
• the person who gave the boat to the broker should have been HIGHLY suspect about handing over the title...enough to suspect fraud right then and there, and enough to go elsewhere. Just because the broker was a smooth talker does not mean they should have handed over title...so it is partially the seller's fault for making this so easy.
• Timing is important: She said that the buyer of the boat, having believed that they were buying a boat though a legit transaction is offered protection and should keep the boat...however, after extended periods of time of not receiving title to the boat that they should suspect fraud. Having suspecting fraud, the buyer loses that protection...so it is partially the buyers fault for potentially not acting quick enough.
• Her general feeling was that this was a total cluster, but felt that the original owner should in most cases get their boat back because at some point the buyer should have suspected something was not right, and that the buyer would go to the broker to recoup their money.
• Because transactions were across multiple states, this should become a federal issue
• Because CG registered vessels were involved, this should become a federal issue
• If AZ chooses to, they can extradite broker to AZ to face charges (one hearing with multiple counts)
• Assuming person serves time in AZ, other states can also press charges and extradite in their state...rinse and repeat in the state of your choice

just about what I said in the beginning.... never never never give up the title without getting cash.... or till after funds clear at the bank...

if you wanna sell the banks boat.... pay off the bank and clear the title...

if you wanna buy the banks boat same... make them clear the title or walk....


if you don't get the funds when you give the title.... you might not ever...


if you dont get the title when you pay.... you might not ever

 

[Tank]

just about what I said in the beginning.... never never never give up the title without getting cash.... or till after funds clear at the bank...

if you wanna sell the banks boat.... pay off the bank and clear the title...

if you wanna buy the banks boat same... make them clear the title or walk....


if you don't get the funds when you give the title.... you might not ever...


if you dont get the title when you pay.... you might not ever

Yeeeeeeeep

 

[2FORCEFULL]

heres where it goes south.... if you get a broker involved...he acts as a escrow.... holds your cash... and holds the title...


now you have to deal with honesty and trust....



the check is in the mail....LMFAO

 

[spectracular]

heres where it goes south.... if you get a broker involved...he acts as a escrow.... holds your cash... and holds the title...

now you have to deal with honesty and trust....

the check is in the mail....LMFAO

Right...which is why it sounds like if things are handled quick enough, that the buyer could actually be victorious (is that even the right word?). I genuinely wonder, for the folks that recently bought a boat from a broker that goes out of business shortly after the transaction takes place...those buyers might actually have a chance it sounds. Most likely, they will be in the minority though.

 

[rmarion]

a few years ago I purchased a 5k M/C on ebay. The bike was in the mid west... we agreed on an escrow account... I gave the check, the check cleared the bank, the seller delivered the bike, I verified the bike and the funds where sent. All GOOD!!! WIN WIN

 

[Yellowboat]

this thread is making me both sadder and sadder and madder and madder.

 

[Willie B]

...I just realized I screwed up from the beginning of this fiasco,...friend of mine is an attorney and a judge,...I should've got him involved as an observer and possibly a poster from the beginning,...he's pretty sharp on this stuff???...

 

[C-2]

Different states, different laws, yes, what a mess.

Did any of these boats have open loans against them?

I thought in In AZ, there are no "titles", correct? The registration is the title and a lender secures their security interest by a standardized UCC filing....which would gibe a lender priority over any existing owner, or buyer (if there was still a loan against the boat.) In Az, I think the original owner could be sued in court with the boat in "absentia" if the boat/collateral cannot be found. Have seen that done in Cali too when the repo guy cannot find a boat.

 

[Willie B]

Different states, different laws, yes, what a mess.

Did any of these boats have open loans against them?

I thought in In AZ, there are no "titles", correct? The registration is the title and a lender secures their security interest by a standardized UCC filing....which would gibe a lender priority over any existing owner, or buyer (if there was still a loan against the boat.) In Az, I think the original owner could be sued in court with the boat in "absentia" if the boat/collateral cannot be found. Have seen that done in Cali too when the repo guy cannot find a boat.

...Hmmm???... I get it,...I forgot much of this being Arizona my friend is in California...

 

[Yellowboat]

if the boat was registered with the USCG, they can claim "1st dibs" at will.

 

[Whitecaps]

Talking to World Wide Marine insurance today, the insurance companies are moving away from fraud coverage because of things like this( and in the housing market).
They are aware of this OCM saga and they are in Michigan! :smackhead

 

[RiverDave]

I got a call this am from one of the guys that bought a boat from Tim and just found out it belongs to someone else..

 

[rivermobster]

I got a call this am from one of the guys that bought a boat from Tim and just found out it belongs to someone else..

Jezuz H Christ...

This guy needs to be dealt with accordingly. What a complete asshole. :thumbsdown

I see a truckload of karma bearing down on him soon!!!!!!!

 

[Ziggy]

I got a call this am from one of the guys that bought a boat from Tim and just found out it belongs to someone else..

Aw fock

 

[pkrrvr619]

the thread title is misleading as the OCM saga seems to have just begun. I wonder how many more calls RD is going to get regarding Tim's shady business dealings.

sucks that this pos has fleeced so many....

 

[Old Texan]

the people that legally bought the boat from a broker that was legally given authority to sell...

Question: Is/was Tim a licensed/legal broker? Is there such a thing in AZ?

I don't believe to this point I had heard him actually called a broker. Broker to me, would imply a legal/licensed entity that would have to be bonded. So many assumptions being posted it's confusing as to what his actual status is/was and how he conducted business. I'd appreciate some insight on this....

So many deals gone sour, it's wild in how it got so far with so many. Slick SoB to say the least.

 

[Whitecaps]

Question: Is/was Tim a licensed/legal broker? Is there such a thing in AZ?

I don't believe to this point I had heard him actually called a broker. Broker to me, would imply a legal/licensed entity that would have to be bonded. So many assumptions being posted it's confusing as to what his actual status is/was and how he conducted business. I'd appreciate some insight on this....

So many deals gone sour, it's wild in how it got so far with so many. Slick SoB to say the least.

Yes he was bonded.

 

[plaster dave]

Do boat brokers have to have a bond?
In construction we have to have them.
We were doing work for a guy just like "Tim" and he took 6 clients for over a mil. The jobs were finished under his license and bonds because the permits were pulled under his license. The home owners on these projects had to keep renewing the bonds because everyone kept hitting them to recoup money he screwed people out of. Maybe check his bond if he has one to recoup some money. Just a thought I had.

 

[RiverDave]

His bond was for a 100k so that will get eaten up quick.

 

[Bigbore500r]

His bond was for a 100k so that will get eaten up quick.

Wow. I cant believe that a guy who delt with 1 million dollars worth of boats (at least) at any given time only had a bond for $100,000. Going forward, if I was going to sell my boat through a broker, I would want to see that they were bonded to cover the cumulative value of all their inventory (estimated of course...but not 100,000 if they have 2 M-31's in stock...you get my point).

 

[plaster dave]

His bond was for a 100k so that will get eaten up quick.

What I was trying to say is if I was owed money I would renew it and file a claim against it.

 

[OCMerrill]

OCM is apparently the only part of this that's come to a close. This thread is pure Advil addiction.

 

[beertruck]

Although I have had no luck so far finding and recovering my boat, ( think it left around June 2014 based on info I am putting together) I have a attorney friend with connections in the justice dept. He thinks he can get the federal prosecutors involved in this case.
What we need to show them is that this ( my boat) is not a isolated event, and that he has a pattern of doing this type of thing to others. I know the many threads here, and on OSO show this, but I would also like to gather names and type of theft to present to them also
For those of you interested in participating in this action please PM me your name, contact info, and what Tim or OCM did to you, and I will include this along with my information.

I don't have high hopes of recovering my boat, or if I do what condition it will be in if I do, Put I do think we can put Tim behind bars where he belongs.

Thanks

Don Bellis

beertruck

 

[TeamGreene]

Do boat brokers have to have a bond?
In construction we have to have them.
We were doing work for a guy just like "Tim" and he took 6 clients for over a mil. The jobs were finished under his license and bonds because the permits were pulled under his license. The home owners on these projects had to keep renewing the bonds because everyone kept hitting them to recoup money he screwed people out of. Maybe check his bond if he has one to recoup some money. Just a thought I had.

Hey speaking of "Tim" did you ever get that situation taken care of? And I hope this isn't the "Tim" we've spoken about.

 

[plaster dave]

Hey speaking of "Tim" did you ever get that situation taken care of? And I hope this isn't the "Tim" we've spoken about.

No that piece of shit stopped making payments. Then I caught up with him in a parking lot and he tried to run me over with his truck so I swung on him. He called the cops on me for socking him up. Nothing ever came of it because there were witnesses of him trying to run me over.
I didn't get the full amount closure but I definitely got close to it. Lol

 

[tunnel vision]

Anyone seen Tim around town? Ruby still in town? I find it interesting someone said they seen Tim around town with his son, I wonder why he's not with his mom...

 

[TeamGreene]

No that piece of shit stopped making payments. Then I caught up with him in a parking lot and he tried to run me over with his truck so I swung on him. He called the cops on me for socking him up. Nothing ever came of it because there were witnesses of him trying to run me over.
I didn't get the full amount closure but I definitely got close to it. Lol

Wow! Well I'm glad you got close to what you were owed. He's getting his now, wife left him took their kid with and he's now working for a electrical contractor by the hour and not allowed to set foot in a wholesale house to "buy" material.

 

[boatsntoys]

Although I have had no luck so far finding and recovering my boat, ( think it left around June 2014 based on info I am putting together) I have a attorney friend with connections in the justice dept. He thinks he can get the federal prosecutors involved in this case.
What we need to show them is that this ( my boat) is not a isolated event, and that he has a pattern of doing this type of thing to others. I know the many threads here, and on OSO show this, but I would also like to gather names and type of theft to present to them also
For those of you interested in participating in this action please PM me your name, contact info, and what Tim or OCM did to you, and I will include this along with my information.

I don't have high hopes of recovering my boat, or if I do what condition it will be in if I do, Put I do think we can put Tim behind bars where he belongs.

Thanks

Don Bellis

beertruck

Putting him behind bars gets no one their money. Fraud conviction with probation until restitution is paid works well. I got one one a guy over 5 years ago. My $15k gains interest and he has to report every month or go to jail for violating probation. I get a % of his weekly pay. Sometimes a couple hundred along and sometimes only $50 or so. He has paid me over $5000 in 5 years and still owes me over $18k with the interest. The people who were defrauded have quite a bit to say when it comes to sentencing. Our guy owed about $150k total and we all decided to keep him on the outside paying us, instead of him on the inside and us paying for him to live.

 

[tb230razor]

Although I have had no luck so far finding and recovering my boat, ( think it left around June 2014 based on info I am putting together) I have a attorney friend with connections in the justice dept. He thinks he can get the federal prosecutors involved in this case.
What we need to show them is that this ( my boat) is not a isolated event, and that he has a pattern of doing this type of thing to others. I know the many threads here, and on OSO show this, but I would also like to gather names and type of theft to present to them also
For those of you interested in participating in this action please PM me your name, contact info, and what Tim or OCM did to you, and I will include this along with my information.

I don't have high hopes of recovering my boat, or if I do what condition it will be in if I do, Put I do think we can put Tim behind bars where he belongs.

Thanks

Don Bellis

beertruck

It really isn't cool that any of you guys had to/ or have to go through this. I hope this gets handles soon for all parties involved. I can't imagine the stress and headaches that would come from all of this. Sucks

 

[Mini Kat]

Although I have had no luck so far finding and recovering my boat, ( think it left around June 2014 based on info I am putting together) I have a attorney friend with connections in the justice dept. He thinks he can get the federal prosecutors involved in this case.
What we need to show them is that this ( my boat) is not a isolated event, and that he has a pattern of doing this type of thing to others. I know the many threads here, and on OSO show this, but I would also like to gather names and type of theft to present to them also
For those of you interested in participating in this action please PM me your name, contact info, and what Tim or OCM did to you, and I will include this along with my information.

I don't have high hopes of recovering my boat, or if I do what condition it will be in if I do, Put I do think we can put Tim behind bars where he belongs.

Thanks

Don Bellis

beertruck

Here you go.

 

[RiverDave]

Although I have had no luck so far finding and recovering my boat, ( think it left around June 2014 based on info I am putting together) I have a attorney friend with connections in the justice dept. He thinks he can get the federal prosecutors involved in this case.
What we need to show them is that this ( my boat) is not a isolated event, and that he has a pattern of doing this type of thing to others. I know the many threads here, and on OSO show this, but I would also like to gather names and type of theft to present to them also
For those of you interested in participating in this action please PM me your name, contact info, and what Tim or OCM did to you, and I will include this along with my information.

I don't have high hopes of recovering my boat, or if I do what condition it will be in if I do, Put I do think we can put Tim behind bars where he belongs.

Thanks

Don Bellis

beertruck

See if you can get a copy of the report submitted to the County attorney from detective fuller.

 

[ArizonaDCB]

Wow! Well I'm glad you got close to what you were owed. He's getting his now, wife left him took their kid with and he's now working for a electrical contractor by the hour and not allowed to set foot in a wholesale house to "buy" material.

If he's working for and Electrical Contractor maybe someone should make a call to his new Employer and let them know what kind of scumbag they have hired and tell them to read the threads about his Business practices. It's about time people start messing with his life the way he has messed with others.................post who he's working for and let the people on this Board make a few calls.

 

[cicchetti_24]

If he's working for and Electrical Contractor maybe someone should make a call to his new Employer and let them know what kind of scumbag they have hired and tell them to read the threads about his Business practices. It's about time people start messing with his life the way he has messed with others.................post who he's working for and let the people on this Board make a few calls.

Can you even legally do that? Could there some type of counter suit for defamation of character? I'm just asking because that just sounds like a slippery slope

 

[Yellowboat]

Can you even legally do that? Could there some type of counter suit for defamation of character? I'm just asking because that just sounds like a slippery slope

if you can tell the truth( stuff you can back up in court) you are fine. if not yes you could get sued.

like I can legally say my ex is a drug addict and some one that commits purgury while under oath. i can and have proved all of those things in court.


i could not say she is a cheater, cuase i can not prove it. nor can i say what i think she is taking. as i could not prove it.

 

[BHC Vic]

Can you even legally do that? Could there some type of counter suit for defamation of character? I'm just asking because that just sounds like a slippery slope

I thought defamation was spreading lies? This would be true. And I believe a member on this board called another members boss.

 

[hvnfun]

If he's working for and Electrical Contractor maybe someone should make a call to his new Employer and let them know what kind of scumbag they have hired and tell them to read the threads about his Business practices. It's about time people start messing with his life the way he has messed with others.................post who he's working for and let the people on this Board make a few calls.

Put me in line, I would love the opportunity to add to his woes.

 

[hvnfun]

If he's working for and Electrical Contractor maybe someone should make a call to his new Employer and let them know what kind of scumbag they have hired and tell them to read the threads about his Business practices. It's about time people start messing with his life the way he has messed with others.................post who he's working for and let the people on this Board make a few calls.

It would be great if someone could post who he is working for and any information about where he can be found.

 

[TeamGreene]

If he's working for and Electrical Contractor maybe someone should make a call to his new Employer and let them know what kind of scumbag they have hired and tell them to read the threads about his Business practices. It's about time people start messing with his life the way he has messed with others.................post who he's working for and let the people on this Board make a few calls.

Not the same Tim. Plaster Dave and I were talking about a guy named Tim that ripped him off.