The insurance industry has become predatory

[HgH Vltg]

You can add USAA to the list of insurers that will not write new home policies for most Ca areas. https://sfstandard.com/2023/08/31/i...home-insurer-to-limit-business-in-california/

So I'm dumb, does this mean they will heavily limit NEW stuff only, or people that have policies may be affected as well? I was lucky to get them to write a policy on my now rental townhouse we moved out of, and my new house.

 

[Mandelon]

I have a rental property that is up against a drainage control channel in the back yard. Lender required me to get flood insurance.

I dragged my feet on it and the lender went ahead and did a "forced coverage" policy on it. The cost wasn't that bad really so I left it for a couple years. I wonder if folks can't get coverage in the market perhaps their lenders will be forced to do that to protect their investment?

 

[77charger]

They must of used a drone at my house also. Paint under the back eave. I just painted the exterior but not the area the addition will be. No way they went in the yard with the locked gates and dog.

They gave him a short deadline then when done actually sent someone to verify. All this tech they spend a few bucks save thousands or make thousands. I wonder how much time they actually spend flying a drone for non to really notice.

 

[NicPaus]

They gave him a short deadline then when done actually sent someone to verify. All this tech they spend a few bucks save thousands or make thousands. I wonder how much time they actually spend flying a drone for non to really notice.

I got dropped. My Allstate agent told me to paint it as none of the underwriting would insure me with flaking paint. Next company was $100+ more for the year.

 

[Taboma]

Going to resurrect this thread since I believe what I have to add, clearly falls within the accusation of the titled subject of this thread.

Not sure how many of you read news ala mass media, but for the sake of a few remaining comic strips, I still subscribe a couple of days a week.

Anyway, ran across this article in this past Friday's edition and I've not read of it's mention here on RDP and I know there's more than a few on here affected or will be.

I honestly don't think this latest news in the battle of Insurance Vs. the "Fire Prone" homeowners in California will shock any but the extremely naive.
At least it provides confirmation to what many of us suspected was the motivation and purpose for the insurance companies staging a coup on our collective asses.
"Extortion", plain and simple, they all colluded and using us as pawns, blackmailed the state into handing over our hard earned dollars.

The good news I suppose is, insurance should be more readily available, the bad news is, we'll all have to get 2nd jobs or sell our boats to afford it.

It's my hopes those RDPers who simply can't resist California bashing for the purpose of some vengeance motivated self-gratification and or some sadistic weapon who enjoy pulling the wings off of those of us still enjoying the weather, will respectfully show class by not.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Going to resurrect this thread since I believe what I have to add, clearly falls within the accusation of the titled subject of this thread.

Not sure how many of you read news ala mass media, but for the sake of a few remaining comic strips, I still subscribe a couple of days a week.

Anyway, ran across this article in this past Friday's edition and I've not read of it's mention here on RDP and I know there's more than a few on here affected or will be.

I honestly don't think this latest news in the battle of Insurance Vs. the "Fire Prone" homeowners in California will shock any but the extremely naive.
At least it provides confirmation to what many of us suspected was the motivation and purpose for the insurance companies staging a coup on our collective asses.
"Extortion", plain and simple, they all colluded and using us as pawns, blackmailed the state into handing over our hard earned dollars.

The good news I suppose is, insurance should be more readily available, the bad news is, we'll all have to get 2nd jobs or sell our boats to afford it.

It's my hopes those RDPers who simply can't resist California bashing for the purpose of some vengeance motivated self-gratification and or some sadistic weapon who enjoy pulling the wings off of those of us still enjoying the weather, will respectfully show class by not.

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"Catastrophe modeling" and taking into account the effects of "climate change" to base projected costs...so basically throw numbers together to assure their profits don't take a hit.

What this will do to the housing market could be bad as well. The payment and insurance may be equal costs. Not to mention, what keeps them from declaring more areas "risks"? Traffic conditions may hinder response, or high density tracts may make spread from one house to another more possible...

 

[Taboma]

"Catastrophe modeling" and taking into account the effects of "climate change" to base projected costs...so basically throw numbers together to assure their profits don't take a hit.

What this will do to the housing market could be bad as well. The payment and insurance may be equal costs. Not to mention, what keeps them from declaring more areas "risks"? Traffic conditions may hinder response, or high density tracts may make spread from one house to another more possible...

All valid concerns, but will the housing market suffer worse with expensive insurance vs. essentially none or extremely limited as the only available options either ?

Several fires have proven that you don't have to be near "The Edge" to be exposed to the ravages of a wind flamed fire. Up here on our mountain we sweat bullets over the continuing availability of just having insurance, let alone the cost. As a small collective of voices we're at constant odds with the adjacent San Dieguito River Park management to provide us an open area as the County Fire and Cal Fire mandate.
All they do is whine about their endangered "Native" frigging Chaparral that infests So Cal canyons.

When we took it upon ourselves to clear 300', instead of the barely 100' they give us, we got letters from their attorneys, baring us from touching their property, so we locked their access gate and refused to grant them the use of OUR private roads to access it.
That brought out the Sheriffs as the park said we made threats and had GUNS.
So now when they come to weed whack they bring armed protection from us bad people, I shit you not.

San Diego by the nature of it's terrain that makes it so interesting versus flat-ass LA or areas of Orange County, creates fire risks of varying levels for numerous communities, not just those of us more directly adjacent.
I was stunned after the Witch Creek fire claimed our home, how it had hop-scotched through high density residential neighborhoods of nearby Rancho Bernardo, claiming homes that were no where near any brush. Carlsbad and La Costa learned similar lessons in subsequent fires.

Lahaina is a tragic reminder of this as it raced through neighborhoods far removed from it's brush covered source area.
Doing pre-fire google street view is a horrifying reality check, seeing that these neighborhoods were lush and GREEN with healthy foliage, yet they exploded regardless.

I know one thing, you won't find me leaving here and residing in some damned condominium or assisted living for "Active Adults"

When I leave it will be on a gurney with a sheet covering my face.

 

[arch stanton]

I wish they had held out for not coming back until california went back to old rules for forest management
Insurance companies have to make money like all businesses or they go BK they we’re leaving california because they we’re not making money, in business sometimes you have to Fire customers, i have done it and has helped profitability
The price of properties were going to be hurt by not being able to get insurance or having to use the state insurance that was expensive and may not provide full replacement coverage so price of property in fire areas were going to be affected either way

 

[arch stanton]

Taboma I hear goats are the way to clear brush without getting in trouble
Also weed killer applied To offending area after the rainy season

 

[EmpirE231]

Going to resurrect this thread since I believe what I have to add, clearly falls within the accusation of the titled subject of this thread.

Not sure how many of you read news ala mass media, but for the sake of a few remaining comic strips, I still subscribe a couple of days a week.

Anyway, ran across this article in this past Friday's edition and I've not read of it's mention here on RDP and I know there's more than a few on here affected or will be.

I honestly don't think this latest news in the battle of Insurance Vs. the "Fire Prone" homeowners in California will shock any but the extremely naive.
At least it provides confirmation to what many of us suspected was the motivation and purpose for the insurance companies staging a coup on our collective asses.
"Extortion", plain and simple, they all colluded and using us as pawns, blackmailed the state into handing over our hard earned dollars.

The good news I suppose is, insurance should be more readily available, the bad news is, we'll all have to get 2nd jobs or sell our boats to afford it.

It's my hopes those RDPers who simply can't resist California bashing for the purpose of some vengeance motivated self-gratification and or some sadistic weapon who enjoy pulling the wings off of those of us still enjoying the weather, will respectfully show class by not.

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What you’re reading is propaganda from the state. The insurance commissioner in the state of CA has been a complete failure. This “agreement” discussed in the article is unheard of by the carriers in the state. I deal with reps of most carriers in the state on a weekly basis. The commissioner has not allowed carriers to take rate for over two years (hence why they need such drastic rate now). The commissioners #1 blame for the current insurance environment is climate change. Guy is out of touch, and a mega douche.

 

[Boozer]

A couple things.

Insurance companies don’t make money on the policies they write. They actually lose money, they make money on investment vehicles that they purchase with the revenue they generate from their loser policies. Most investment vehicles have been struggling and market volatility has made it extremely difficult to choose where to invest the money.

Insurance claims are completely out of control.

I just replaced the roof on my house due to hail damage. $7K deductible. There was a supplement added to the claim and I may be out even more money. The roof cost $40K to replace (prior to supplement). My insurance policy cost $4K a year.

4 years ago the same roof was replaced. The replacement cost was half with a $3K deductible on a policy that cost $3K.

I had a flood in my basement due to a faulty toilet between roof replacements. That flood cost my insurance company $30K. I had another flood due to a faulty sewer line that I ate out of pocket so I didn’t become uninsurable.

My insurance company has paid out nearly $100K in claims in 4 years. I’ve paid them around $15K in premiums over that same time period. $85K loss, it makes no sense for them to continue losing money protecting my investments. I am not alone, every house in my neighborhood just got a new roof, most of those houses got a new roof 4 years ago as well.

This problem is much more deep rooted than insurance companies trying to screw people over. I’m not sure what the answer is, I’m not even sure there is one. What I am sure of, this is just the tip of the iceberg and this thing is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.

 

[Taboma]

What you’re reading is propaganda from the state. The insurance commissioner in the state of CA has been a complete failure. This “agreement” discussed in the article is unheard of by the carriers in the state. I deal with reps of most carriers in the state on a weekly basis. The commissioner has not allowed carriers to take rate for over two years (hence why they need such drastic rate now). The commissioners #1 blame for the current insurance environment is climate change. Guy is out of touch, and a mega douche.

Well it would seem that his political future will grow far dimmer if after releasing this lates news, and the insurance industry gets this extremely large rate increase, and it isn't followed by or coincide with various major players returning to write policies.
Guess we'll see how it plays out.

 

[King P.V.]

For 26 years, I've had Oregon Mutual has provided mortgage insurance on my home. Just got a letter that they are dropping every residential policy they have on the books. They are afraid of the pending earthquake potential and rather than take that hit... they're just leaving the home mortgage business. And dropping ....thousands of clients.... its up to each customer to seek out a replacement company to provide coverage. I did get an agent, who was certain that he could get coverage w/o breaking the bank. He's still trying to find someone. I'm certain that any new company will 1) be additional dollars on top of my currant mortgage insurance rates and 2) they'll want to inspect for items they feel i need to bring up to their standards. Hense, just more $$$ I'll need to spend. Where the "F" am i supposed to find that kind of money...?
BTW, Washington has its share of volcanoes, but I live smack dab in thr middle of the Columbia Basin. It's been about 180 million years since we've had any earthquakes or lava flowing thru my back yard.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

Orange County Office Sells at 66% Loss

Southern California is now home to another example of sharply deflated office values.

commercialobserver.com

The full article is behind a paywall but you get the point. Huge losses are being felt by investors of cmbs. The only reason why an investment firm would sell a large office building at a loss is that it cannot afford the debt.

An insurance company has to invest it's collected premiums into assets that return a profit to cover losses on claims. After the 08 crash the only assets that were rated AAA were government bonds and and commercial mortgage backed securities.

Government bonds had an interest return of just above zero due to the emergency reduction of interest rates. The only bonds available with any semblance of return were cmbs (commercial mortgage backed securities) this lead to a huge loosening of credit standards across the commercial lending space as they had to qualify more borrowers to deploy all of the funds that were mandated as residential mortgage backed securities were now a dirty word. It also drove up the prices of commercial buildings as credit was cheap and plentiful.

This led to a huge cmbs boom. Similar to what happened in 2001 when Clinton repealed glass steagall allowing banks that take deposits to invest in asset backed securities giving the rmbs market more money than it new what to do with. Which resulted in bad loans and the 08 crises.

Mix in covid work from home mandates, which completely destroyed office occupancy rates. Incredibly fast interest rate hikes, which have destroyed profitability on long term returns on any investments made in the past 15 years.

Inflation driven collateral costs have made insurance loss payouts much higher, the average vehicle purchase price for a new car is 48k, the used car average in CA is 36k. We all know the rapid rise of housing prices nationwide.

Now throw in urban sprawl into the only open areas in California which continue to push into what have historically been areas that are a high fire risk. Probably more impactful than the actual houses are the electrical lines that are now running through areas without proper forest management due to letting the environmentalists dictate policy. Meanwhile in Florida they are building into areas that was previously, low lying swamp land, Florida is notorious for its general lack of sense when it comes to building codes and big money developers. At the end of the day you get the perfect storm for an insurance company.

This has nothing to do with global warming or any other media buzz words. It all comes down to what everything comes down to. Money.

Losses on the investment side combined with higher payouts on the business side and insurance companies are scrambling to protect their stock price. The number one and two states with the highest insurance payouts? California and Florida.

Insurance company profits are still showing record highs due to the majority of these investments sitting on the books as unrealized losses. But as more of these commercial buildings can't meet their bond interest payments that will change.

 

[ChumpChange]

Well I say this thread had me freaked out until I got my homeowners insurance premium renewal in the mail the other day. Up 50 bucks from last year.

 

[Havasu Rehab]

Well I say this thread had me freaked out until I got my homeowners insurance premium renewal in the mail the other day. Up 50 bucks from last year.

You just won the lotto. Congrats!

$50 is “chump change” (pun intended).

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Got my a landlord insurance switched over from Liberty Mutual to Geico. Saved about $1600 over my renewal quote with LM on 1 Havasu property.

 

[EmpirE231]

Got my a landlord insurance switched over from Liberty Mutual to Geico. Saved about $1600 over my renewal quote with LM on 1 Havasu property.

Through what carrier? Geico typically brokers out their home insurance policies, as they don't have their own home insurance program.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Through what carrier? Geico typically brokers out their home insurance policies, as they don't have their own home insurance program.

Travelers

 

[Taboma]

Taboma I hear goats are the way to clear brush without getting in trouble
Also weed killer applied To offending area after the rainy season

I wasn't laughing at your content, it's what I imagined the San Dieguito River Park Ranger doing when they spotted a herd of goats on their belove "Endangered" chaparral. At least that's their excuse for not giving us more clearance.
This is that Coast to Crest park and they pack a lot of political wallop under the JPA (Joint Powers Authority). When our local hostility (Their words) caused them to feel threatened, they started sending Sheriffs and armed security to watch over their Whacking Crews, least we citizens shoot somebody.
Seriously, two sheriffs with them and another in a car parked up our road. I had no idea us bunch of grumpy old farts were so intimidating.
Next time I see the Ranger I'll have to inquire about the Goats deal, I know that Laguna Beach uses them as do other areas.

 

[zhandfull]

Thought about this thread yesterday when reviewing new rate sheets for open enrollment at work. Big increase in my family heath plan cost in 2024. Works out to about a 20% premium increase in total. My portion of contribution going up 140% to cover the entire increase.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

Thought about this thread yesterday when reviewing new rate sheets for open enrollment at work. Big increase in my family heath plan cost in 2024. Works out to about a 20% premium increase in total. My portion of contribution going up 140% to cover the entire increase.

Nothing to see here…we built back better! Bidenomics is working!!!!!

 

[Done-it-again]

Thought about this thread yesterday when reviewing new rate sheets for open enrollment at work. Big increase in my family heath plan cost in 2024. Works out to about a 20% premium increase in total. My portion of contribution going up 140% to cover the entire increase.

Our business plan for employees jumped for the 23-24 year some 18%. Its crazy, and pretty soon I believe some will start to drop it...

 

[EmpirE231]

Thought about this thread yesterday when reviewing new rate sheets for open enrollment at work. Big increase in my family heath plan cost in 2024. Works out to about a 20% premium increase in total. My portion of contribution going up 140% to cover the entire increase.

Thanks Obama!

 

[EmpirE231]

Just an update from your state of CA elected commissioner

"“There is no doubt that because of climate change, our planet, country, and state are at an insurance crossroads. Our current path is unsustainable. In California, our ongoing partnership with the Governor and Legislature to improve conditions for the consumers, homeowners, and businesses that make up our insurance marketplace is critical to crafting lasting solutions."

Things they are doing to help...

Climate Response:
• Created first “Climate and Sustainability Branch” in country.
• Established “Climate Insurance Working Group” generating CA’s first-ever Climate Insurance Report.
• Partnered with United Nations to launch “CA’s Sustainable Insurance Roadmap”

 

[WildHorses24]

Just an update from your state of CA elected commissioner

"“There is no doubt that because of climate change, our planet, country, and state are at an insurance crossroads. Our current path is unsustainable. In California, our ongoing partnership with the Governor and Legislature to improve conditions for the consumers, homeowners, and businesses that make up our insurance marketplace is critical to crafting lasting solutions."

Things they are doing to help...

Climate Response:
• Created first “Climate and Sustainability Branch” in country.
• Established “Climate Insurance Working Group” generating CA’s first-ever Climate Insurance Report.
• Partnered with United Nations to launch “CA’s Sustainable Insurance Roadmap”

I read this entire memo as "The state program Fair Plan can't handle insuring all the bad risk" "Companies....please come back we'll make it easier/faster to adjust rates"

..."the strategy seeks a commitment from insurance companies to write a minimum of 85% of homes and businesses in destressed areas, where normal insurance is hard to find. This will reverse the trend of a growing FAIR PLAN and make sure insurance is available, especially in high risk areas"

Also, interesting SCE sent out notices for up coming rate increases....wildfire mitigation costs? Maybe Newscum will stop waving his protective wand and let Ins Companies subrogate against PG&E for fires they caused instead of making Ins companies eat the loss.

 

[boatnam2]

I got about 8 things insured with State farm , called to add used wave runner, my agent said they no longer do Fire insurance which pwc falls under.

 

[King295]

Let's go ahead and bump this one up. Annual homeowner's insurance policy in Orange County (CA) with Farmers came in at an increase of 35% year-over-year and on a two year basis 63%.

Had a chat with my agent and the reasoning (1) California is passing all proposed rate increases from insurance companies with the intent to squeeze consumers to force a state run insurance program, (2) catching up on losses incurred due to COVID delayed/expensive claims, and (3) inflation.

 

[CLdrinker]

I read this entire memo as "The state program Fair Plan can't handle insuring all the bad risk" "Companies....please come back we'll make it easier/faster to adjust rates"

..."the strategy seeks a commitment from insurance companies to write a minimum of 85% of homes and businesses in destressed areas, where normal insurance is hard to find. This will reverse the trend of a growing FAIR PLAN and make sure insurance is available, especially in high risk areas"

Also, interesting SCE sent out notices for up coming rate increases....wildfire mitigation costs? Maybe Newscum will stop waving his protective wand and let Ins Companies subrogate against PG&E for fires they caused instead of making Ins companies eat the loss.

Just a heads up the utilities are paying out on fires.
If it’s your impression that Newsom is protecting them from lawsuits, he is doing a shity job.

 

[FishSniper]

We just switched from Farmers to Travelers on the Havasu property. The Farmers increases the last two years was just absurd. Switched to Travelers and saved over 800 for the year.

 

[WildHorses24]

Just a heads up the utilities are paying out on fires.
If it’s your impression that Newsom is protecting them from lawsuits, he is doing a shity job.

I haven't heard of any subrogation against PG&E, how else would they be protected? I know that State Farm only received 1/10th of what they paid out in the Camp fire alone from PG&Es insurance before it maxed.

 

[EmpirE231]

Let's go ahead and bump this one up. Annual homeowner's insurance policy in Orange County (CA) with Farmers came in at an increase of 35% year-over-year and on a two year basis 63%.

Had a chat with my agent and the reasoning (1) California is passing all proposed rate increases from insurance companies with the intent to squeeze consumers to force a state run insurance program, (2) catching up on losses incurred due to COVID delayed/expensive claims, and (3) inflation.

re: reason #1

The carriers would not put themselves out of business. The issue is that the state has not allowed the requested rate increases to be approved, which ha caused most carriers to stop writing new business in the state, and then this forces more people to have to go with the state program. So the problem isn't that they are passing the rate increases,.... the problem is that they are not passing them fast enough.

even the state program (CA FAIR PLAN) has had huge rate increases this year

 

[EmpirE231]

currently, the average hold times to get service from the CA FAIR PLAN, are 3-4 hours

welcome to CA DMV level service, in the insurance world.

 

[CLdrinker]

I haven't heard of any subrogation against PG&E, how else would they be protected? I know that State Farm only received 1/10th of what they paid out in the Camp fire alone from PG&Es insurance before it maxed.

They have Paid a billion to State Farm and another 117 million to I believe a trust set up for fire victims.
Your post says the Newsom needs to stop waving his wand over the utilities protecting them.

Yet we all pay out on fires.

Riddle me this. Why don’t Newsom maintain the forests and not let them become such a hazard.

I’m an avid hunter and have walked a few different forests. There is a massive difference in maintenance between states.

Maybe if the state would let the forests go to shit the fires wouldn’t be so catastrophic.

Also since I’m in the business I can tell you one thing. Some utilities don’t maintain infrastructure near as much as others. That is also a problem.

Lucky for me I’m in the utility business and my wife is in insurance.

Plenty of job security

 

[King295]

re: reason #1

The carriers would not put themselves out of business. The issue is that the state has not allowed the requested rate increases to be approved, which ha caused most carriers to stop writing new business in the state, and then this forces more people to have to go with the state program. So the problem isn't that they are passing the rate increases,.... the problem is that they are not passing them fast enough.

even the state program (CA FAIR PLAN) has had huge rate increases this year

I saw the ~16% increase under the FAIR program last month. Tack on inflation and cost of repairs it at least has some sense to it but 63% in two years is brutal. Agent told me people are pushing deductibles way up to try and reduce their premiums.... I'd bet that the people doing that will have difficulty covering deductibles if the need arose.

Chock this one up to price of admission in the state of CA. My wife wants to move back to her native state, it is not out of the question at this point.

 

[EmpirE231]

I saw the ~16% increase under the FAIR program last month. Tack on inflation and cost of repairs it at least has some sense to it but 63% in two years is brutal. Agent told me people are pushing deductibles way up to try and reduce their premiums.... I'd bet that the people doing that will have difficulty covering deductibles if the need arose.

Chock this one up to price of admission in the state of CA. My wife wants to move back to her native state, it is not out of the question at this point.

the 16% for the fair plan is just the beginning. They have also made the application process much more difficult. Remember it is a state run program, and the state is very good at losing money, meaning they are way behind on necessary rate adjustments.

yep 2500 deductibles are the new norm. Just switched mine to a 5K, starting to see that becoming very common.

 

[King295]

the 16% for the fair plan is just the beginning. They have also made the application process much more difficult. Remember it is a state run program, and the state is very good at losing money, meaning they are way behind on necessary rate adjustments.

yep 2500 deductibles are the new norm. Just switched mine to a 5K, starting to see that becoming very common.

The last thing I want is ANY of my insurance through a state run program. I have mine set at $3K, maybe I'll bump it up as the deductible is of no concern and see what that does for my annual rate.

 

[WildHorses24]

They have Paid a billion to State Farm and another 117 million to I believe a trust set up for fire victims.
Your post says the Newsom needs to stop waving his wand over the utilities protecting them.

Yet we all pay out on fires.

Riddle me this. Why don’t Newsom maintain the forests and not let them become such a hazard.

I’m an avid hunter and have walked a few different forests. There is a massive difference in maintenance between states.

Maybe if the state would let the forests go to shit the fires wouldn’t be so catastrophic.

Also since I’m in the business I can tell you one thing. Some utilities don’t maintain infrastructure near as much as others. That is also a problem.

Lucky for me I’m in the utility business and my wife is in insurance.

Plenty of job security

Didn't the $1bill come from their insurance policy which capped at $2bil? We paid out over 17 Billion in that fire which was also only 1 of the 15+ fires linked to utilities over the past 8 years alone.

Agree with you on the rest but it was explained differently to me when I visited with legislators back in 17' after the Tubbs fire. A hand full of agents spent a weekend in the Franz valley/Santa Rosa/Calistoga/Napa Area talking about utilities/insurance/wildfire issues. I was given the impression that our gov wouldn't let insurance companies cripple utilities. I was also enlightened on how little Sacramento actual knows about how the industry works. I don't even think Richardo Lara could pass the licensing exams.

The short story is the consumer will pay no matter what... either through higher ins premiums, higher taxes or higher utility costs. It just comes down to who the state wants to make the bad guy.

 

[Taboma]

They have Paid a billion to State Farm and another 117 million to I believe a trust set up for fire victims.
Your post says the Newsom needs to stop waving his wand over the utilities protecting them.

Yet we all pay out on fires.

Riddle me this. Why don’t Newsom maintain the forests and not let them become such a hazard.

I’m an avid hunter and have walked a few different forests. There is a massive difference in maintenance between states.

Maybe if the state would let the forests go to shit the fires wouldn’t be so catastrophic.

Also since I’m in the business I can tell you one thing. Some utilities don’t maintain infrastructure near as much as others. That is also a problem.

Lucky for me I’m in the utility business and my wife is in insurance.

Plenty of job security

Have you looked at a forest map to see what little acreage the state is responsible for by comparison to federal ? Or Private ?

Are you suggesting that Californians should foot the bill to maintain the federal forests ? or Private ones ?

Hell I'd just be thrilled if they cut the weeds along our local highways so there's not so many vehicular caused fires.

But I certainly do agree the forests need to be better maintained to mitigate fires, but the feds should be responsible for their own.

 

[angiebaby]

Have you looked at a forest map to see what little acreage the state is responsible for by comparison to federal ? Or Private ?

Are you suggesting that Californians should foot the bill to maintain the federal forests ? or Private ones ?

Hell I'd just be thrilled if they cut the weeds along our local highways so there's not so many vehicular caused fires.

But I certainly do agree the forests need to be better maintained to mitigate fires, but the feds should be responsible for their own.

View attachment 1312249

It is my understanding that CARB won't allow controlled burns on USFS land. It might cause some smoke and pollute the air. Much better to have a super fire last for weeks and kill ALL of the forests and animals that live within it. It's a risk they are willing to take.

 

[Taboma]

It is my understanding that CARB won't allow controlled burns on USFS land. It might cause some smoke and pollute the air. Much better to have a super fire last for weeks and kill ALL of the forests and animals that live within it. It's a risk they are willing to take.

I'm not aware of that, as there's prescribed burns in our local National Forests and USFS managed forests regularly conducted during the winter seasons. There are certainly weather considerations that must be accounted for.
If you go Watch Duty ---- https://app.watchduty.org/ and scroll towards the northern portions of California you'll find listings of dozens of RX or prescribed burns most all of those on Federal Forest property.

Here's a screen shot from it that's current

 

[angiebaby]

https://www.propublica.org/article/they-know-how-to-prevent-megafires-why-wont-anybody-listen

It's a great article and worth the read, but here is the relevant part for this discussion:

"Planning a prescribed burn is cumbersome. A wildfire is categorized as an emergency, meaning firefighters pull down hazard pay and can drive a bulldozer into a protected wilderness area where regulations typically prohibit mountain bikes. Planned burns are human-made events and as such need to follow all environmental compliance rules. That includes the Clean Air Act, which limits the emission of PM 2.5, or fine particulate matter, from human-caused events. In California, those rules are enforced by CARB, the state’s mighty air resources board, and its local affiliates. “I’ve talked to many prescribed fire managers, particularly in the Sierra Nevada over the years, who’ve told me, ‘Yeah, we’ve spent thousands and thousands of dollars to get all geared up to do a prescribed burn,’ and then they get shut down.” Maybe there’s too much smog that day from agricultural emissions in the Central Valley, or even too many locals complain that they don’t like smoke. Reforms after the epic 2017 and 2018 fire seasons led to some loosening of the CARB/prescribed fire rules, but we still have a long way to go."

From the SF Chronicle:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/califor...burn-more-of-its-forests-to-save-15829961.php

“In the past, we’ve done smaller-type burns,” said John Exline, director of ecosystem management for the U.S. Forest Service’s Pacific Southwest Region. “We really need to look at larger, landscape-type burning — really start looking at thousands of acres at a time, not hundreds of acres at a time.”

The number of burns has recently increased, due to the harsh realization of what is needed coupled with public demands for action.

 

[hallett21]

https://www.propublica.org/article/they-know-how-to-prevent-megafires-why-wont-anybody-listen

It's a great article and worth the read, but here is the relevant part for this discussion:

"Planning a prescribed burn is cumbersome. A wildfire is categorized as an emergency, meaning firefighters pull down hazard pay and can drive a bulldozer into a protected wilderness area where regulations typically prohibit mountain bikes. Planned burns are human-made events and as such need to follow all environmental compliance rules. That includes the Clean Air Act, which limits the emission of PM 2.5, or fine particulate matter, from human-caused events. In California, those rules are enforced by CARB, the state’s mighty air resources board, and its local affiliates. “I’ve talked to many prescribed fire managers, particularly in the Sierra Nevada over the years, who’ve told me, ‘Yeah, we’ve spent thousands and thousands of dollars to get all geared up to do a prescribed burn,’ and then they get shut down.” Maybe there’s too much smog that day from agricultural emissions in the Central Valley, or even too many locals complain that they don’t like smoke. Reforms after the epic 2017 and 2018 fire seasons led to some loosening of the CARB/prescribed fire rules, but we still have a long way to go."

From the SF Chronicle:

https://www.sfchronicle.com/califor...burn-more-of-its-forests-to-save-15829961.php

“In the past, we’ve done smaller-type burns,” said John Exline, director of ecosystem management for the U.S. Forest Service’s Pacific Southwest Region. “We really need to look at larger, landscape-type burning — really start looking at thousands of acres at a time, not hundreds of acres at a time.”

The number of burns has recently increased, due to the harsh realization of what is needed coupled with public demands for action.



View attachment 1312571

This happened in Calabasas and Malibu. 10-20 years ago we had controlled burns but the greenies got pissed. Well Woosley Fire caused Billions in damage and god knows how much pollution. Way. To. Go.

 

[EmpirE231]

Allstate approved for double-digit rate increases in California, New York and New Jersey

Allstate announced Thursday double-digit rate increases for auto insurance in California, New York and New Jersey, following comments CEO and President Tom Wilson made last week that the company wo…

www.repairerdrivennews.com

"California approved a 30% increase, New York a 14.66% increase and New Jersey a 20% increase"

 

[Cole Trickle]

Allstate approved for double-digit rate increases in California, New York and New Jersey

Allstate announced Thursday double-digit rate increases for auto insurance in California, New York and New Jersey, following comments CEO and President Tom Wilson made last week that the company wo…

www.repairerdrivennews.com

"California approved a 30% increase, New York a 14.66% increase and New Jersey a 20% increase"

I'm so confused by the market and approvals...lol

I review 30%+++ increases daily.

 

[angiebaby]

This happened in Calabasas and Malibu. 10-20 years ago we had controlled burns but the greenies got pissed. Well Woosley Fire caused Billions in damage and god knows how much pollution. Way. To. Go.

You'll notice that the numbers and acreage of prescribed burns increased exponentially during the Trump administration.

 

[530RL]

State Farm discontinuing 72,000 home policies in California in latest blow to state insurance market

The Illinois-based company, California's largest insurer, cited soaring costs, the increasing risk of catastrophes like wildfires and outdated regulations as reasons it won’t renew the policies on 30,000 houses and 42,000 apartments, the Bay Area News Group reported Thursday. “This decision was...

www.yahoo.com

 

[JL95]

2% of it's policies just in this state is amazing

 

[530RL]

2% of it's policies just in this state is amazing

The increased frequency and severity of fires, flooding, and wind events is making parts of America economically uninsurable.

Going to get even tougher for some homeowners and a real problem.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

The increased frequency and severity of fires, flooding, and wind events is making parts of America economically uninsurable.

Going to get even tougher for some homeowners and a real problem.

it's almost like stopping prescribed burns....backfired??? Liberals.