The insurance industry has become predatory

[batterup]

Here are a few of my thoughts and update on commercial insurance:

-Mercury took a much needed 15% rate increase on 2/1/23 and removed their pay in full discount. The good news is that there are several competitive alternatives.
- Progressive is pretty much pulling out of CA and Arizona including their commercials, so say bye to Flo.
- if you have an ex-mod, learn how it works and know what your primary threshold is.
- make sure if you have claims that your broker is conducting a unit stat review.
- I always recommend business owners to call their broker and ask if they know what a unit stat filing is and why the primary threshold is important. If they can’t answer both on the spot…run!
- if you have any non-admitted policies, make sure the broker and/or wholesaler aren’t charging broker fees. The only reason for them is so your broker can make more money. Also, if it’s a gl policy, make sure you have a 90% earned premium and/or a stepped up rate negotiated.
- if you premium finance any of your policies, check the interest rate. I still see brokers using 16-18% or more to make points off of it.
- property insurance is almost as bad as personal lines, but with fewer large increases

The bottom line is to expect more. My industry has done a great job lowering companies expectations.

 

[HALLETT BOY]

Here are a few of my thoughts and update on commercial insurance:

-Mercury took a much needed 15% rate increase on 2/1/23 and removed their pay in full discount. The good news is that there are several competitive alternatives.
- Progressive is pretty much pulling out of CA and Arizona including their commercials, so say bye to Flo.
- if you have an ex-mod, learn how it works and know what your primary threshold is.
- make sure if you have claims that your broker is conducting a unit stat review.
- I always recommend business owners to call their broker and ask if they know what a unit stat filing is and why the primary threshold is important. If they can’t answer both on the spot…run!
- if you have any non-admitted policies, make sure the broker and/or wholesaler aren’t charging broker fees. The only reason for them is so your broker can make more money. Also, if it’s a gl policy, make sure you have a 90% earned premium and/or a stepped up rate negotiated.
- if you premium finance any of your policies, check the interest rate. I still see brokers using 16-18% or more to make points off of it.
- property insurance is almost as bad as personal lines, but with fewer large increases

The bottom line is to expect more. My industry has done a great job lowering companies expectations.

What’s an ex-mod ?

 

[Done-it-again]

What’s an ex-mod ?

It’s a multiplier against your workers comp due to claims against you. The higher your ex-mod is, the more you are paying for WC.

 

[THE WIDGE]

This is criminal, 2 years ago $1900, last year $2800, today $8600. Zero claims in my life. In fire area, but a 200% increase, it’s like charging $20 a gallon of gas in hurricane or $20 for a gallon of water. Where is the media or watch dogs. Unreal!

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

This is criminal, 2 years ago $1900, last year $2800, today $8600. Zero claims in my life. In fire area, but a 200% increase, it’s like charging $20 a gallon of gas in hurricane or $20 for a gallon of water. Where is the media or watch dogs. Unreal!

I'm not going to lie, but the conspiracy theorist in me has been coming out with the talk of fire insurance. We have very little inventory of homes for sale right now because nobody wants to sell with their 2-3% mortgages. However, I know there is no factual information for it, but I almost think the insurance companies are using that to rationalize huge increases.

 

[CLdrinker]

Spoke to my wife and her friend who both work for a very large insurance company.

They are having a very hard time getting coverage for their clients in HFRA.

They have 1 client that they can not get covered and has had no property insurance for months.

If they find coverage the costs are insane.

Businesses are getting effed, so the price of goods will be going up up up.

 

[shintoooo]

This is criminal, 2 years ago $1900, last year $2800, today $8600. Zero claims in my life. In fire area, but a 200% increase, it’s like charging $20 a gallon of gas in hurricane or $20 for a gallon of water. Where is the media or watch dogs. Unreal!

Same thing happened to me because we are in a fire zone. Insurance tripled. I switched everything over to state farm and it went back down to what I was paying before.

 

[Cole Trickle]

I'm not going to lie, but the conspiracy theorist in me has been coming out with the talk of fire insurance. We have very little inventory of homes for sale right now because nobody wants to sell with their 2-3% mortgages. However, I know there is no factual information for it, but I almost think the insurance companies are using that to rationalize huge increases.

Losses/future speculated loss are causing the increases....They can't raise rates for no rewason.

When a premium goes to 8k they are telling you they don't want the risk but are forced to keep it.

Regular stuff is becoming unprofitable....You should see the claims I see on the daily. Just got off the phone with a long time client. Left on vacation came home and upstairs pipe let go. 72k paid out thus far. That 1 claim has just eliminated 72 years of premium as a break even point and we see multiple weekly.

Just got off the phone with a 85 year old client that i love talking to..He just received a a notice that he is being sued by his mail man. His old 8lb dog bit the guy on the ankle and barely broke skin. he said no way it would have required stiches.

I think you are going to see a huge issue with condo coverage moving forward that makes home rates seem normal. Premiums are lower than homes but claims are the same. We were just notified of a 45% rate increase coming.

It's going to get worse.

 

[Done-it-again]

Same thing happened to me because we are in a fire zone. Insurance tripled. I switched everything over to state farm and it went back down to what I was paying before.

What were you paying before? Mine has doubled with SF in 2 years.... Was 1100 now 2300

 

[shintoooo]

What were you paying before? Mine has doubled with SF in 2 years.... Was 1100 now 2300

Started out at $1700 then went to $2600 which I was still ok with because we did have fires and then it went to $6K. I switched to State Farm and I'm at $2,600 again. Let me know if you want my agent's info.

 

[Orange Juice]

Here are a few of my thoughts and update on commercial insurance:

-Mercury took a much needed 15% rate increase on 2/1/23 and removed their pay in full discount. The good news is that there are several competitive alternatives.
- Progressive is pretty much pulling out of CA and Arizona including their commercials, so say bye to Flo.
- if you have an ex-mod, learn how it works and know what your primary threshold is.
- make sure if you have claims that your broker is conducting a unit stat review.
- I always recommend business owners to call their broker and ask if they know what a unit stat filing is and why the primary threshold is important. If they can’t answer both on the spot…run!
- if you have any non-admitted policies, make sure the broker and/or wholesaler aren’t charging broker fees. The only reason for them is so your broker can make more money. Also, if it’s a gl policy, make sure you have a 90% earned premium and/or a stepped up rate negotiated.
- if you premium finance any of your policies, check the interest rate. I still see brokers using 16-18% or more to make points off of it.
- property insurance is almost as bad as personal lines, but with fewer large increases

The bottom line is to expect more. My industry has done a great job lowering companies expectations.

I’m watching California, to see how homeowners handle their home investments, when there are no options to insure property for fire. How is the mortgage insurance handled?

If the property never burns, that’s 10’s of thousands in savings over the homeowners life. What’s the real risk if the property’s paid off?
Hurricane insurance in Florida? Do they run without it?
Earthquake insurance?
Flood insurance?
Mold insurance?
Health insurance?

Can America run on a policy of “self insured only”?

 

[EmpirE231]

This is criminal, 2 years ago $1900, last year $2800, today $8600. Zero claims in my life. In fire area, but a 200% increase, it’s like charging $20 a gallon of gas in hurricane or $20 for a gallon of water. Where is the media or watch dogs. Unreal!

The media should be putting the CA DEPARTMENT OF INSURANCE on blast... they are single handedly taking down the insurance industry in CA, and causing lots of havoc to the consumers.

 

[THE WIDGE]

I'm not going to lie, but the conspiracy theorist in me has been coming out with the talk of fire insurance. We have very little inventory of homes for sale right now because nobody wants to sell with their 2-3% mortgages. However, I know there is no factual information for it, but I almost think the insurance companies are using that to rationalize huge increases.

Not going to lie, thinking the same, first thought was to sell

 

[THE WIDGE]

Started out at $1700 then went to $2600 which I was still ok with because we did have fires and then it went to $6K. I switched to State Farm and I'm at $2,600 again. Let me know if you want my agent's info.

Please!!!!

 

[EmpirE231]

I'm not going to lie, but the conspiracy theorist in me has been coming out with the talk of fire insurance. We have very little inventory of homes for sale right now because nobody wants to sell with their 2-3% mortgages. However, I know there is no factual information for it, but I almost think the insurance companies are using that to rationalize huge increases.

In the state of CA, which continues to burn every year. You have a state not willing to do anything to mitigate fire risk (other than force us to get solar and electric cars to offset climate change). The state does not do enough brush clearing, forest clean up etc to help control the risk.... heck most of our freeway median landscaping is all weeds and a brush hazard. Combo that with a very litigious state in which people that live 2 miles away from a fire are putting in smoke damage claims because they got a post card in the mail, along with all their neighbors, to file claims....... here we are today. most carriers would rather not insured these areas or anywhere within a 5 mile radius.

on the commercial side.... how many structure fires are we all seeing now due to homelessness?

auto side.... when was the last time you got on a freeway and not seen at least 1 accident or debris from a previous accident? or seen someone passing on a shoulder / driving crazy.

The game has changed.... insurance carriers are playing catch up or leaving town. Mix in a crap load of bad politics and here we are.

 

[BUDMAN]

Just got word that my general liability will be dropped at end of month. They are no longer offering policies for any types of emergency road service in California. Just another way to shut down the small business.

 

[Done-it-again]

Just got word that my general liability will be dropped at end of month. They are no longer offering policies for any types of emergency road service in California. Just another way to shut down the small business.

Damn that sucks, just call it preventative maintenance road service. Lol

We switched our GL a couple of years ago due to massive hoops to keep the policy and increase rates. Nope.

Shopping our WC now.

 

[Singleton]

This is criminal, 2 years ago $1900, last year $2800, today $8600. Zero claims in my life. In fire area, but a 200% increase, it’s like charging $20 a gallon of gas in hurricane or $20 for a gallon of water. Where is the media or watch dogs. Unreal!

Holly hell.
I think increases need to be capped at a certain %

 

[LuauLounge]

Had a tree fall at my rental. $2k claim, premium doubled following year, just renewed it, another 400, so, $500 to $1,400 in two years. Too cheap two years ago but they caught up quick

 

[zhandfull]

Had my wife talking to a broker getting a quote for homeowners insurance. Fifty year old mobile on deeded land in Havasu. Quote came in at $1,200 a year. Thought that was high. Noticed wife was primary and I was listed as secondary on policy quote. Asked wife to call back and put me in primary position. New quote came back at $600 per year. Same company, same property, and same coverage. My wife needs to work on her credit score I guess.

 

[THE WIDGE]

Clearly FARMERS wants to get rid of me on my primary, or at least the fire portion of it. I think everyone needs to LEAVE Farmers then. I guarantee you can find cheaper and with better. I posted a separate thread last month re my havasu policy with Farmers . I saw a 29% increase after a 20%, 22% year over year prior with zero claims. Long story short I left after 18 years w Farmers on the Havasu house. State Farm tripled my extended structure amount for my detached garage, and was still 200 a year cheaper with less deductible. Just leave! A $5800 increase at once is not a company I want to do business with ever, just like the car dealership marking a truck up 15k plus over msrp, a gas station selling a gal of gas for $15 after a hurricane, or same with basic needs.

 

[Mikes56]

I just got a Notice of Non-Renewal from Allstate for our homeowners policy. Allstate sent a third party inspector to my house last month. Get this, among other things, the notice mentions loose and broken roof tiles, plants under the eaves, etc. I called and told them the loose and broken roof tiles are where they are in the middle of installing a new roof over my new garage. How fucking stupid can they be???? Also there’s missing siding on the house. Yea no shit, there’s new siding being installed on the new garage. Dumb fuckers, the construction permit is posted on the front of my house.

Allstate also wants me to box in my eaves or remove the plants near the house so there’s a 5’ clearance. Yea blow me!

Ive had Allstate for 45 years with one small claim 25 years ago. My parents had Allstate before that.

Just got off the phone with AAA, I’ll be changing my coverage to them.

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

Holly hell.
I think increases need to be capped at a certain %

Agreed. Even an adjustable rate mortgage has a cap on how much it can increase. This behavior by the insurance industry is flat out criminal.

I think the big issue that they aren't talking about is that they have all taken massive losses on their bond investments. It's all being swept under the rug and again, the consumer is the one getting railed because of their poor investment choices.

 

[FCT]

It’s a complete joke what they charge. Between medical, business, workman’s comp, auto/boat, life, and homeowners I pay just over $63k a year I know people that pay way more than I do too It literally pisses me off every month I see it going out!

 

[THE WIDGE]

This is criminal, 2 years ago $1900, last year $2800, today $8600. Zero claims in my life. In fire area, but a 200% increase, it’s like charging $20 a gallon of gas in hurricane or $20 for a gallon of water. Where is the media or watch dogs. Unreal!

I wanted to provide an update. Found a reasonable policy through State Farm in Chino. $3350 with more coverage and not $8600 like Farmers quoted my renewal. I did not have to get a separate fire plan. F FArmers, that’s two policies in a month converted to State Farm from Farmers!

 

[Gripside80]

Started out at $1700 then went to $2600 which I was still ok with because we did have fires and then it went to $6K. I switched to State Farm and I'm at $2,600 again. Let me know if you want my agent's info.

I want your agents info. My insurance is at $6k right now. I hear State Farm isn’t taking any new customers/policies. Please send me his info. I’d love to talk to him.

 

[c_land]

I want your agents info. My insurance is at $6k right now. I hear State Farm isn’t taking any new customers/policies. Please send me his info. I’d love to talk to him.

Just saw this, no more new State Farm policies in CA

 

[Gripside80]

Just saw this, no more new State Farm policies in CA

View attachment 1235264

I got in two days ago by the skin of my teeth.

 

[LuauLounge]

So State Farm is losing billions on Auto in California and they stop writing Homeowners Insurance, which is making money. Am I missing something?

LA Times

State Farm is no longer accepting property insurance applications in California

The company blames 'increases in construction costs outpacing inflation, rapidly growing catastrophe exposure and a challenging reinsurance market.'

www.latimes.com

"State Farm last year posted a net loss of $6.7 billion, driven largely by losses in the auto division. The company’s homeowner division recorded $849 million in underwriting gains."

 

[bonesfab]

So State Farm is losing billions on Auto in California and they stop writing Homeowners Insurance, which is making money. Am I missing something?

LA Times

State Farm is no longer accepting property insurance applications in California

The company blames 'increases in construction costs outpacing inflation, rapidly growing catastrophe exposure and a challenging reinsurance market.'

www.latimes.com

"State Farm last year posted a net loss of $6.7 billion, driven largely by losses in the auto division. The company’s homeowner division recorded $849 million in underwriting gains."

The 6.7 billion was probably just sxs claims.

 

[lbhsbz]

The 6.7 billion was probably just sxs claims.

Or stolen cat claims….

The insurance industry is big enough to get LE to start doing their jobs again…but I guess it’s easier to just say fuck it and quit

 

[CoolCruzin]

Our san dimas house is in a fire zone now so it increase in price .(State Farm) totally green around us .
The Havasu house insurance company ( State Farm)took a fly by photo and said I need a new roof or no renewal .
Just a way to increase the premiums.

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

My car insurance went up 40%! Same carrier, same coverage. Pretty amazing!

 

[Danger Dave]

 

[77charger]

I just got a Notice of Non-Renewal from Allstate for our homeowners policy. Allstate sent a third party inspector to my house last month. Get this, among other things, the notice mentions loose and broken roof tiles, plants under the eaves, etc. I called and told them the loose and broken roof tiles are where they are in the middle of installing a new roof over my new garage. How fucking stupid can they be???? Also there’s missing siding on the house. Yea no shit, there’s new siding being installed on the new garage. Dumb fuckers, the construction permit is posted on the front of my house.

Allstate also wants me to box in my eaves or remove the plants near the house so there’s a 5’ clearance. Yea blow me!

Ive had Allstate for 45 years with one small claim 25 years ago. My parents had Allstate before that.

Just got off the phone with AAA, I’ll be changing my coverage to them.

Guy that does some machining for me out of his garage had all state for 50 years for everything they came by sent a drone over his house sent him letter saying he will not be renewed because his roof is old and worn. He called and notched about it he ended up having to redo the roof.

 

[77charger]

The 6.7 billion was probably just sxs claims.

Crazy how today the ones who off road think insurance has to pay for their stupidity off roading. That’s the price of sign and drive. IMO the only thing insurance should cover for them is damage to others in accident or theft. Not crashing. The. You have these guys posting their crash like a badge of honor vs a stupidity trophy.

 

[3queens]

Absolutely BS
My auto AAA went from $5200
They added $4300

$9500 a year WTHH
No claims multi policy
How the hell are they getting away with this
I’ll be shopping in the am

 

[EmpirE231]

So State Farm is losing billions on Auto in California and they stop writing Homeowners Insurance, which is making money. Am I missing something?

LA Times

State Farm is no longer accepting property insurance applications in California

The company blames 'increases in construction costs outpacing inflation, rapidly growing catastrophe exposure and a challenging reinsurance market.'

www.latimes.com

"State Farm last year posted a net loss of $6.7 billion, driven largely by losses in the auto division. The company’s homeowner division recorded $849 million in underwriting gains."

We had a fairly mild “fire season” last year. Every other carrier had already stopped writing anything near a fire zone, but State Farm didn’t. Meaning they took on a whole lot of new business in fire zones (hence the profits) but they next time we have an active fire season again (most likely this year) they’re in line to take a massive hit.

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

Absolutely BS
My auto AAA went from $5200
They added $4300

$9500 a year WTHH
No claims multi policy
How the hell are they getting away with this
I’ll be shopping in the am

I swear man, that is straight criminal.

 

[Danger Dave]

 

[angiebaby]

Maybe we need to start emailing and calling our elected officials and asking what they intend to do about it.

 

[Cole Trickle]

Just saw this, no more new State Farm policies in CA

View attachment 1235264

Looks like Allstate has joined the party....

I'm guessing more to come.

Allstate stops issuing new homeowners insurance policies in California

Another insurance giant recently stopped new sales

www.insurancebusinessmag.com

 

[ArizonaKevin]

I'm so glad to be out of this dumpster fire of an industry. My insurance license lapsed last year and when we got the notice in the mail my wife asked if I wanted to renew it as a "just in case," I said hell no, I'll go re-instate my CDL before I do that job again.

 

[Bpracing1127]

I'm so glad to be out of this dumpster fire of an industry. My insurance license lapsed last year and when we got the notice in the mail my wife asked if I wanted to renew it as a "just in case," I said hell no, I'll go re-instate my CDL before I do that job again.

The offroad industry misses you tho!!! Was so easy the.

 

[ArizonaKevin]

The offroad industry misses you tho!!! Was so easy the.

Still don't know how Liberty hasn't taken rate on the UTVs, back when I was still there loss ratios on that line of business was ~250% (for every dollar of premium that was brought in, they paid out $2.50 in claims)

Not sustainable at all, my grandpa's rzr was with SafeCo (owned by liberty) and they totaled it out with a preposterous payout. A 2015 XP1k Desert Edition with 4k miles for $26k!! After seeing that, I don't have much sympathy for them anymore. These wounds are self inflicted, but unfortunately the rest of us are paying the price in the end.

 

[Bpracing1127]

Still don't know how Liberty hasn't taken rate on the UTVs, back when I was still there loss ratios on that line of business was ~250% (for every dollar of premium that was brought in, they paid out $2.50 in claims)

Not sustainable at all, my grandpa's rzr was with SafeCo (owned by liberty) and they totaled it out with a preposterous payout. A 2015 XP1k Desert Edition with 4k miles for $26k!! After seeing that, I don't have much sympathy for them anymore. These wounds are self inflicted, but unfortunately the rest of us are paying the price in the end.

With my new rzr Liberty wouldn’t even quote it. Ended up with geico uggg

 

[JL95]

Not going to lie this Insurance thread has worried me since i read it initially. The big house on the hill with a few acres and a gate dream just keeps getting harder and harder lol. Ok you can afford your dream house but no one will insure it because its in a wild fire area

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

With my new rzr Liberty wouldn’t even quote it. Ended up with geico uggg

When I sold my RZR I kept my Liberty Mutual policy for this reason…I got the new one and they just switched the VINs for me and it went from $180 to $280.

I was satisfied with that.

 

[Orange Juice]

Just renewed my 2022 Dodge Charger GT, and it’s $2325 for 6 months. No tickets, no crashes, no kids, no problems.

 

[Mandelon]

This is why we can't have nice things...

Between health insurance, car insurance, rental property insurance, workers comp insurance, liability insurance, life insurance, property+fire insurance and a balloon policy I pay an insane amount every month.