The insurance industry has become predatory

[Ace in the Hole]

Serious question……. Does Arizona have the same insurance problems that California and Florida currently have?

I think we have a big issue with uninsured drivers.. But claims for glass in AZ are covered with no deductible.. If you live in AZ its not if you will get broken glass its when...and since its covered people just have to make a claim. There are a ton of fly by night glass companies now that give "free dinners" or "weekend trips" or just straight cash rebates to let them do it vs say safelite etc. I had a windshield in my old f150 done cash and it was like $200 (not in AZ, so no glass coverage)... these companies are giving $200+ back in cash, so you know they are billing out a ton on the jobs.

property value skyrocketed, SXS's are everywhere now..and they don't get fixed they get totaled...and there are a ton of claims for those etc... We don't have the storm issues...but we do have flooding....which is probably going to be insane this year.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Thank you, that was awesome.

[Insert snarky remark here]
"Go Be Poor Somewhere Else"

The irony of a person who owns a business that primarily gets paid from insurance claims complaining about insurance costs is pure poetry.

That’s true.

But to be fair, Joe is just drying the house out. Not reimagining it and building it back better.

I knew a home insurance adjuster in CA. They had their house remodeled twice in the 6 years we knew them. Their daughter plugged the sink playing around with water, and the family left with the water running in the sink… twice.

The wife was vocal she didn’t like how the first rebuild came out. What do you know, a year later.. another flood .

 

[rmarion]

time for another $600 stimulus payment..

natives getting are awakening..

PS.. im still waiting on my 1st stimulus check.. must of got lost in the mail...

 

[DaveC]

Between cars, health, home, and business insurance, I’m forking out $30K-$35K a year for insurance. No claims, no tickets, nothing.

That’s cheap…. The biz we got a family and two singles on health and just that is $4900 a month …..

We are employees BTW…

 

[spectra3279]

I’m moving to my river house permanently in 2 months. I just switched my auto insurance from Irvine to Mohave Valley, Az. When they told me my new premium I thought they had made a mistake. I have a 2021 Tesla and a 2018 GMC Sierra and the 6 month premium for both cars is $700. Or $49/month for the GMC and $67/month for the Tesla. I was paying triple that in CA. Your insurance premium is closely tied to your zip code. If you live in SoCal there is simply no way around high premiums. I agree with the OP, I don’t see how families are making ends meet these days.

How the hell you fuckers getting this cheap insurance? I have liability on a 97 s500 and a 2003 dodge 3500. No tickets and no accidents since 07 and I'm at 150 a month for them.

 

[SCV2RVR]

Haven't seen anyone mention the plaintiff's lawyers. The payout for simple rear-end collisions is astronomical once a lawyer gets involved and generalized back pain turns into a 4 level discectomy with fusion. I work for Farmers Insurance as a nurse in the Medical Services Unit and see it all day long.

 

[Done-it-again]

I'll tell you right now Liberty Mutual can go fuck themselves.

The fucking worst most sneaky little fucks, They took my shop and business insurance and basically doubled it with no warning. They send the policy packet with no price, then about a month later send you the renewal, 14 days before it's due, so you are pigeon holed from shopping around. I told my agent they can shove it, he hunted around and found me better coverage for like 25% of the price from Sedgwick, Liberty wanted almost 8k a year up from 4k, and Sedgwick was less than 2k....

Plus their commercials are fucking annoying.

We had to ditch liberty mutual as well. What they wanted for GL/WC was crazy so had to switch after many many years.

 

[DaveC]

Just wait a minute here! Why are we listening to the insurance brokers in this thread? They don’t know anything about the insurance market or industry from the decades in their careers. They are just here to tell you anything to get your money and justify their higher profits!

Just like the Real Estate and mortgage brokers in the real estate threads that have spent their careers in the RE industry and we constantly and consistently dismiss their knowledge and experience in RE.

To be fair I tune in to Cole Trickle to see what he does next with LS powered vehicles….

 

[530RL]

Something else to consider is that there is a very high correlation between credit score and insurance claims.

California, Hawaii, Massachusetts and Michigan do not allow the use of credit score in underwriting auto insurance and as a result statistically responsible drivers are paying higher premiums in those states to mutualize this measurable risk.

 

[Cole Trickle]

Something else to consider is that there is a very high correlation between credit score and insurance claims.

California, Hawaii, Massachusetts and Michigan do not allow the use of credit score in underwriting auto insurance and as a result statistically responsible drivers are paying higher premiums in those states to mutualize this measurable risk.

State of CA has also found it unfair to give education discounts as well as renewal discounts for long term customers that show a history of keeping active policies....They are trying to mandate socialisim everywhere

All they can go off is driving record, experience and mileage. They have been atttacking the zip code rating system for a long time but it seems they always figure out a way to get around it a tad. If that ever goes away god help the people that live in urban areas nobody will want to touch that business.

 

[Cole Trickle]

To be fair I tune in to Cole Trickle to see what he does next with LS powered vehicles….

I can send you a picture of a really nice supercharged G8 sitting on a lift...lol

Not sure if its a smoked engine or trans at this point. Could be a cracked flex plate if i get lucky but either way it sounds crunchy and pricey....haha

Too many projects taking $$$ right now so we wait to really dive in.

 

[Singleton]

State of CA has also found it unfair to give education discounts as well as renewal discounts for long term customers that show a history of keeping active policies....They are trying to mandate socialisim everywhere

All they can go off is driving record, experience and mileage. They have been atttacking the zip code rating system for a long time but it seems they always figure out a way to get around it a tad. If that ever goes away god help the people that live in urban areas nobody will want to touch that business.

Interesting. I still have a Loyalty discount

 

[Lotoguy]

As an insurance agent myself, my advice is to shop every year or go with a broker that does it for you. There is no loyalty in insurance anymore, and the companies only care about their bottom dollar, so move on to the next company.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I can send you a picture of a really nice supercharged G8 sitting on a lift...lol

Not sure if its a smoked engine or trans at this point. Could be a cracked flex plate if i get lucky but either way it sounds crunchy and pricey....haha

Too many projects taking $$$ right now so we wait to really dive in.

It looks great on the lift!

 

[Cole Trickle]

Interesting. I still have a Loyalty discount

It still shows but it has been reduced to almost zero

Back in the day it was a good discount closer to 15%

 

[Sportin' Wood]

That’s true.

But to be fair, Joe is just drying the house out. Not reimagining it and building it back better.

I knew a home insurance adjuster in CA. They had their house remodeled twice in the 6 years we knew them. Their daughter plugged the sink playing around with water, and the family left with the water running in the sink… twice.

The wife was vocal she didn’t like how the first rebuild came out. What do you know, a year later.. another flood .

I was a California C36 plumbing contractor in a previous life who did work for most of the big production housing developers. I know the cost of drying out leaks and the prices. One of the top five reason, I no longer work in that industry. Another is the topic of this thread.
Mold seems to just be more scary in California I guess.

Extremely thankful to have escaped California. Things that are challenging in that state seem to disappear in other states.

 

[530RL]

As an insurance agent myself, my advice is to shop every year or go with a broker that does it for you. There is no loyalty in insurance anymore, and the companies only care about their bottom dollar, so move on to the next company.

If all one cares about is price, this is solid advice.

If one cares about claims, service and support, there are some companies that charge more but provide a much higher level of service and claims experience as they underwrite to a different demographic.

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

Every property I have sold in the last year has been in a high fire area. Many of these homes are in the middle of 50 year old neighborhoods with no forest or vacant land areas for miles....Allied gardens was a recent one. Its unbelievable.

On a side note, I believe there was a moratorium for insurance companies not to raise rates since COVID happening. Now, many or most people are experiencing 30% increase in rates. Incredible!

 

[Bigbore500r]

What's going to happen when people just stop paying? Yes, we have a 17 year old on our policy but she drives a modest 2016 Ford Escape. We get good students discount because of her 4.5 GPA. We have no accidents, no tickets and no claims.

2016 Escape and 2023 Yukon on the policy and premium with AAA is $5718/year, so shopped with one agent I know and he came back with a premium of $3673 for 6 months!!

Don't even get me started with our commercial policy, workers comp, GL and equipment insurance.

Getting buried alive it feels like and I am just waiting for our house to be considered a fire zone since we were on evacuation watch during the fire out here last year.

The rule in my parents house growing up was - we'll help you with a car, but you are gonna pay gas and insurance". I had to get and hold a part time job or I wasn't driving. I'm planning to do the same with my kids, it may not offset it 100% but hoping it comes close.
Obviously the whole point of it is to make them understand bills and responsibility, and coverage of actual costs is just a benefit lol

 

[EmpirE231]

As an insurance agent myself, my advice is to shop every year or go with a broker that does it for you. There is no loyalty in insurance anymore, and the companies only care about their bottom dollar, so move on to the next company.

This also drives higher rates as well... so as long as nobody cares about rates continuing to climb, this method will work. But be careful who you choose as a carrier, as service varies drastically between different carriers.

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

The rule in my parents house growing up was - we'll help you with a car, but you are gonna pay gas and insurance". I had to get and hold a part time job or I wasn't driving. I'm planning to do the same with my kids, it may not offset it 100% but hoping it comes close.
Obviously the whole point of it is to make them understand bills and responsibility, and coverage of actual costs is just a benefit lol

She understands the costs involved, but is also a 4.5 GPA student, who has huge demands from an academic standpoint. She plans on taking summer school to get her GPA to 5.0 and has aspirations to get into the medical field. She wants to be an anesthesiologist. Thinking that this may be a good investment on my part hopefully.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

This also drives higher rates as well... so as long as nobody cares about rates continuing to climb, this method will work. But be careful who you choose as a carrier, as service varies drastically between different carriers.

Yea it makes the rates for the suckers that stay higher.

Why do you think people have to keep shopping for better rates? If I don’t have claims historically, do I really care about service all that much if the rates are 30-40-50% cheaper?

 

[EmpirE231]

Yea it makes the rates for the suckers that stay higher.

Why do you think people have to keep shopping for better rates? If I don’t have claims historically, do I really care about service all that much if the rates are 30-40-50% cheaper?

you will care when you have a claim with a subpar insurance carrier........ Just saying

I've had clients with decent net worth, nice homes etc want to switch their Travelers insurance policy to Hippo or Lemonade (online based, less preferred carriers) fine with me... as we still wrote the policy, but I had to give them the huge disclaimer to let them know that IN the case of a claim, they will not get the same level of service from the claims department. That is just the way it goes.... take your Nissan in for service vs your Lexus or Mercedes and see which level of service you prefer. Needless to say by the next renewal, those carriers had raised their rates drastically as well. Insurance rates tend to be an "all tides rise" scenario since it is all statistical. It is common to find something within 10-15% variance..... if you are finding something 30-40% cheaper, more than likely that program is running hot (high loss ratios) and will be filing for rate increases shortly.

I have no problem with people shopping around , heck that is how we get most of our business. The problem is most consumers think insurance is a commodity and it is created equal.... do not expect Mercedes level service with your Nissan level price point is all I'm saying. In some scenarios you can save money and still end up with a quality carrier.

but to explain why it causes rates to continue to rise across the board is that insurance actuaries base rates on average lifespans of policies and factor in expected "earned premiums" If everyone switched carriers every year... this causes a lot less "earned premium" over the expected life of a policy... and if you still have the same level of claims activity, this then causes overall rates to continue to rise.... because they are never capturing enough premium to cover the claims activity.

 

[2Driver]

Insurance is our number 1 expense, and second isn’t even close.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

you will care when you have a claim with a subpar insurance carrier........ Just saying

I've had clients with decent net worth, nice homes etc want to switch their Travelers insurance policy to Hippo or Lemonade (online based, less preferred carriers) fine with me... as we still wrote the policy, but I had to give them the huge disclaimer to let them know that IN the case of a claim, they will not get the same level of service from the claims department. That is just the way it goes.... take your Nissan in for service vs your Lexus or Mercedes and see which level of service you prefer. Needless to say by the next renewal, those carriers had raised their rates drastically as well. Insurance rates tend to be an "all tides rise" scenario since it is all statistical. It is common to find something within 10-15% variance..... if you are finding something 30-40% cheaper, more than likely that program is running hot (high loss ratios) and will be filing for rate increases shortly.

I have no problem with people shopping around , heck that is how we get most of our business. The problem is most consumers think insurance is a commodity and it is created equal.... do not expect Mercedes level service with your Nissan level price point is all I'm saying. In some scenarios you can save money and still end up with a quality carrier.

but to explain why it causes rates to continue to rise across the board is that insurance actuaries base rates on average lifespans of policies and factor in expected "earned premiums" If everyone switched carriers every year... this causes a lot less "earned premium" over the expected life of a policy... and if you still have the same level of claims activity, this then causes overall rates to continue to rise.... because they are never capturing enough premium to cover the claims activity.

I don’t need to pay for someone to smile at me while they are screwing me, but no one said anything about a taking a subpar carrier in this equation. I’m not getting any better service for paying 30% more year over year am I?

You are literally penalized for loyalty. Until that stops, customers are going to shop around. That screws the company I’m leaving, not the one I’m going to. It is their pricing model, not mine. Consumers are forced to shop around.

I get that there are a lot of regulations.. but these companies are also out to make a profit.. and are not exactly motivated to innovate or cut costs.

I’m involved directly or indirectly with several insurance carriers at a corporate level. The government looks efficient by comparison.

 

[Done-it-again]

We are shopping our WC now, will see what rates we get back. Renewal is in July....

 

[bk2drvr]

This thread is depressing.

 

[530RL]

Good body shops, good restoration companies, good flood damage companies and good contractors are like good doctors. They don't take all types of insurance as they have plenty of business and would rather work with the insurance companies that don't do everything primarily on price.

Something to consider when someone is buying the absolute lowest priced insurance they can find.

 

[EmpirE231]

I don’t need to pay for someone to smile at me while they are screwing me, but no one said anything about a taking a subpar carrier in this equation. I’m not getting any better service for paying 30% more year over year am I?

You are literally penalized for loyalty. Until that stops, customers are going to shop around. That screws the company I’m leaving, not the one I’m going to. It is their pricing model, not mine. Consumers are forced to shop around.

I get that there are a lot of regulations.. but these companies are also out to make a profit.. and are not exactly motivated to innovate or cut costs.

I’m involved directly or indirectly with several insurance carriers at a corporate level. The government looks efficient by comparison.

It was only a matter of time before you figured out the whole ins and outs of the insurance industry

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

It was only a matter of time before you figured out the whole ins and outs of the insurance industry

We should just pay more because it’s cheaper right?

 

[Roosky01]

Greaaaattttt….I’ll have to double check my stuff. USAA has always been so affordable

So reading this thread made me curious.
I went into my USAA home page and checked all my insurance data.
Zero increase, no change in stated mileage, no nothing.
I have 3 vehicles on there, including the corvette, all full coverage. I just added a homeowners policy as well.
My annual premium bundled is a FRACTION of the numbers you guys are throwing out.
I got a damn criminal speeding charge in CA in the Vette (106 mph) and USAA didn’t even flinch.
When I lived in CA Val was on our car insurance. It barely went up at all. When she moved out I tried to remove her and they said they automatically keep minors on the policy for a year or whatever it was. That’s when she was in that accident that killed her friends. She was a passenger. USAA paid her $100K unsolicited and without even a claim as an injured passenger in an underinsured crash.
My new homeowners policy is less annually then some of you guys stated dinner outings. On a brand new never lived in home in a brand new neighborhood.
USAA has never done a single negative thing as my primary insurer for over 20 years.
Is all this gloom and doom about CA only?
My shit is all AZ.

When does your policy renew?

 

[ChumpChange]

My daughter turns 16 next month. This doesn’t sound fun.

 

[530RL]

Insurance is our number 1 expense, and second isn’t even close.

Consider yourself lucky. Taxes are the number one expense for many in America. Insurance doesn’t come close.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

My daughter turns 16 next month. This doesn’t sound fun.

Buy her a bicycle or a bus pass.

 

[Singleton]

My daughter turns 16 next month. This doesn’t sound fun.

My 22yo step-son never got his. Saved my wife and I a ton. He had zero interest in learning to drive after his dad took him driving on weekend and he totaled his dads car. Found out last year, his dad went nuclear on him and that was the reason he stopped wanting to drive

 

[ChumpChange]

My 22yo step-son never got his. Saved my wife and I a ton. He had zero interest in learning to drive after his dad took him driving on weekend and he totaled his dads car. Found out last year, his dad went nuclear on him and that was the reason he stopped wanting to drive

We already have the appointment scheduled for her birthday.

 

[Todd Mohr]

I have gotten several quotes today from AAA and Liberty Mutual saving about 3000 per year. Geico really does not care about keeping clients. I'm going to try a local broker tomorrow and see what he can do. I'll post my final savings when I make the switch. Todd

 

[2Driver]

Consider yourself lucky. Taxes are the number one expense for many in America. Insurance doesn’t come close.

I didn’t consider taxes as an “expense” but rather as a function of income. LOl yes the government gets my largest portion of earned income.

 

[was thatguy]

When does your policy renew?

Auto in August, homeowners is locked in for a year.
2014 Z51 Vette low miles is cheaper per month than my 2014 Explorer work rig.
Toying with dropping full coverage on my 2002 beater tahoe launch rig. But it only costs a few dollars to keep full coverage.

But at about $50 a month (each) full coverage on the Vette and explorer with $500 deductibles it could literally double and I’d still be clean.
When I had the 4 acres in Anderson we swapped from USAA to AAA on homeowners. AAA was the better deal and coverage AND they paid off a few claims we submitted.
The Oracle is right.
Paying the cheapest premium can be just contributing money to meet minimum requirements.
Having REAL coverage is more important in my experience.

 

[DaveC]

I didn’t consider taxes as an “expense” but rather as a function of income. LOl yes the government gets my largest portion of earned income.

Agreed…

I was gonna say….as expensive as insurance is thats chicken shit money compared to taxes.

You must be like me…. I don’t even consider the income budgeted for taxes as mine…..it was theirs before I even made it…we are just the middle man……this outlook just saves us heartache. Lol

 

[77charger]

Investigate insurance company losses over the last couple quarters.

They have been getting killed.

Billions lost

Nobody turns in claim’s except for all the people that do. Companies are fleeing the state due to regulations and no longer having the ability use the same statistics they did 20 years ago.

Cell phone has ruined car insurance and people thinking homeowners policies are maintenance policies is insane. Nobody knows how to fix simple issues anymore and cars have gotten so fancy they cost a fortune to fix after minor accidents. (Do a search for the 42k rivian claim in a parking lot type accident)

It’s bonkers 25+ years in the business and I have never seen these kind of issues or the claims we see turned in on the daily….very not fun over the past 9 months.

Just like sxs look at how they’re proud of their crashes like a badge of honor. Most response is well I have insurance they’ll cover it. years ago good luck crashing an off road toy and having someone else pay for it. We did it ourselves so we learned not to fuck shit up.

I had to get insurance on my buggy for az plated. I told them it’s a buggy they asked if it has handlebars or steering wheel. Said steering wheel and 4 wheels lol they came back and said off road is either atv motorcycle or sxs. Luckily with enough pics and explaining cost I got a break she told us the sxs claims are insane

 

[Hardly Satisfied]

She understands the costs involved, but is also a 4.5 GPA student, who has huge demands from an academic standpoint. She plans on taking summer school to get her GPA to 5.0 and has aspirations to get into the medical field. She wants to be an anesthesiologist. Thinking that this may be a good investment on my part hopefully.

Enjoy the rates now Joe. It’s going to cost a lot more when your boys start driving. I’m glad I only had 1 boy.

 

[lbhsbz]

The problem is much like gov entitlements....people are willing to put more effort into getting something for free than they could have simply working to pay for it. I'll never understand it.

Insurance claims are a pain in the ass. Anything under $1000, I'd much rather just pay for it myself and and spend the rest of the day earning that money back than spending countless hours dealing with adjusters, agents, and whatever other asshole I need to argue with to get them to do what I'm required by law to pay them to do. It's just not worth the time. Stepping over dollars to pick up dimes is stupid. If people just handled their shit, and someone cracked down on fraud, insurance would be cheap.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Just like sxs look at how they’re proud of their crashes like a badge of honor. Most response is well I have insurance they’ll cover it. years ago good luck crashing an off road toy and having someone else pay for it. We did it ourselves so we learned not to fuck shit up.

I had to get insurance on my buggy for az plated. I told them it’s a buggy they asked if it has handlebars or steering wheel. Said steering wheel and 4 wheels lol they came back and said off road is either atv motorcycle or sxs. Luckily with enough pics and explaining cost I got a break she told us the sxs claims are insane

With financing comes insurance…

 

[C-2]

Gouging by everybody in the food chain is insane.

Daughter's 2014 Jeep. Plastic clips to hold the jeep fenders on. 16 X $112 = $1800 a the body shop.

On Amazon they cost $7 each.

The overhead costs, insurance costs, costs to do business spill is not gonna work on this butt-rape.

 

[77charger]

With financing comes insurance…

I guess so lol and in some cases insurance means no responsibility while driving just send it.

 

[EmpirE231]

Gouging by everybody in the food chain is insane.

Daughter's 2014 Jeep. Plastic clips to hold the jeep fenders on. 16 X $112 = $1800 a the body shop.

On Amazon they cost $7 each.

View attachment 1226612

The overhead costs, insurance costs, costs to do business spill is not gonna work on this butt-rape.

well that's because the insurance company is paying the bill

kinda like home claims. Minor slab leak? contractor knocks it out for 8-9K to repair damages.... get servpro involved, and it's 75K, but the insured gets all new floors and baseboards... maybe even a new couch.

 

[MeCasa16]

Our boat insurance went down from $2k/yr to $1200/yr. I was pretty excited about that.

 

[HALLETT BOY]

You guys could all save a boatload of money if you didn’t buy new cars , trucks etc every 2-3 years . Pay off the loan and drop or reduce the comp part of Ins .

 

[JD D05]

To give you an idea of how bad this is. United Healthcare has a pharmacy and care delivery side and they push most of there profits to that side. Humira is drug that costs 90k a year with a rebate of 80k. So the Employer gets charged 90k but the insurance company keeps the 80k as pure revenue. And when a drug gets an alternative that is exactly the same for example Humira has 8 available the insurance won't add it to the approved list or offer it etc. We structure plans to unbundle and carve out the pharmacy which means the employer gets charged the 10k and retains all the rebates.

4th quarter profit last year was 4.1B for optum the pharmacy side.