Teenage boat driving law confusing

[ILSMKU]

I keep hearing conflicting information on this. I was under the impression that kids can drive a boat if they are over 12 under AZ law. So does that mean my 13yr old son can legally drive his parents home from a cove if we drank too much?



The confusing part...

California law says they must be 16 to drive alone. I get that. But it also says 12-15yr olds can drive with adult supervision. Does the "adult supervision" part get voided if the adults are drinking or have been?

I just want to make sure I fully understand the laws. I don't personally drink and drive ever. But there are times I wish I could beer or two with everyone and let my 13yr old kid drive us back to wherever we are going.


Thanks!

 

[RitcheyRch]

BoatCop to the white courtesy phone

 

[HALLETT BOY]

I think you can have a beer or two , but not be over .08 bac ... I don't think I'd let a 13 yo drive a boat around Havasu , maybe
in the middle of Mead ...

 

[Boschma]

I think you can have a beer or two , but not be over .08 bac ... I don't think I'd let a 13 yo drive a boat around Havasu , maybe
in the middle of Mead ...

ya, my biggest worry would be how they might react to some idiot driver out there....but then again, that's why the adult is there too though.

 

[Mr. C]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if you have been drinking and over the limit and your kid is under 16 with no drivers license it would be a big no no to have him drive you around. I would think with you being over the limit they would say that there is no adult supervision being provided.

Just thinking out loud is all. I'll wait for Boatcop.

 

[ILSMKU]

I think you can have a beer or two , but not be over .08 bac ... I don't think I'd let a 13 yo drive a boat around Havasu , maybe
in the middle of Mead ...

Oh, Im not giving him the keys and letting him drive it alone without us. I only meant if we had been drinking. Even then, I don't plan on getting drunk on a holiday weekend and saying, here kid, drive us. I'm only asking so I know the laws and if the once time I do choose to have a few beers, I know what my legal options are.

 

[RiverDave]

I keep hearing conflicting information on this. I was under the impression that kids can drive a boat if they are over 12 under AZ law. So does that mean my 13yr old son can legally drive his parents home from a cove if we drank too much?



The confusing part...

California law says they must be 16 to drive alone. I get that. But it also says 12-15yr olds can drive with adult supervision. Does the "adult supervision" part get voided if the adults are drinking or have been?

I just want to make sure I fully understand the laws. I don't personally drink and drive ever. But there are times I wish I could beer or two with everyone and let my 13yr old kid drive us back to wherever we are going.


Thanks!

According to AZ law, A 12 year old (and older) can drive a boat legally by themselves. If the person is under 12 then they can drive the boat with an adult supervising. There is an exception to this for Emergency situations. So by AZ definitions technically a 12+ year old could drive you back..

CA Law, you have to be 16 to drive a boat. If you are under 16 then you require parent supervision. If you are intoxicated, then you do not qualify as a "supervisor" and what will end up happening is the CA cop will arrest you for DUI (even if the minor is driving) because technically you are in control of the vessel.


Both AZ / CA patrol the lake, so depending on which one you get pulled over from is how that stop is going to go. Both sets of laws are enforced on the water way, and no it doesn't matter if you are on the AZ side or the CA side etc.. The entire lake is enforced by both parties.

RD

 

[ILSMKU]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that if you have been drinking and over the limit and your kid is under 16 with no drivers license it would be a big no no to have him drive you around. I would think with you being over the limit they would say that there is no adult supervision being provided.

Just thinking out loud is all. I'll wait for Boatcop.

My common sense says the same thing. But AZ law seems to be much more forgiving by saying anyone 12 and older can drive without supervision. So which law supersedes which? Does it boil down to what agency pulls you over?

 

[ILSMKU]

According to AZ law, A 12 year old (and older) can drive a boat legally by themselves. If the person is under 12 then they can drive the boat with an adult supervising. There is an exception to this for Emergency situations. So by AZ definitions technically a 12+ year old could drive you back..

CA Law, you have to be 16 to drive a boat. If you are under 16 then you require parent supervision. If you are intoxicated, then you do not qualify as a "supervisor" and what will end up happening is the CA cop will arrest you for DUI (even if the minor is driving) because technically you are in control of the vessel.


Both AZ / CA patrol the lake, so depending on which one you get pulled over from is how that stop is going to go. Both sets of laws are enforced on the water way, and no it doesn't matter if you are on the AZ side or the CA side etc.. The entire lake is enforced by both parties.

RD

Thank you very much. That answers my question perfectly. I appreciate it.

 

[RiverDave]

I think you can have a beer or two , but not be over .08 bac ... I don't think I'd let a 13 yo drive a boat around Havasu , maybe
in the middle of Mead ...

Myself and a lot of other kids in the keys used to drive our old mans boats around that age, with no parents, just friends on board. Some of the luckier kids in the keys had mini boats that they would roll as well (solo) at that age.. Damn near everyone had stand up jetski's etc..

And that was back when Parker was fuckin crazy.. A normal weekend looked about like a holiday weekend now, and a holiday weekend forget about it. I will say my parents never let me roll the boat on holiday weekends when I was that young. At around 14-15 though we were.

RD

 

[prosthogod]

Myself and a lot of other kids in the keys used to drive our old mans boats around that age, with no parents, just friends on board. Some of the luckier kids in the keys had mini boats that they would roll as well (solo) at that age.. Damn near everyone had stand up jetski's etc..

And that was back when Parker was fuckin crazy.. A normal weekend looked about like a holiday weekend now, and a holiday weekend forget about it. I will say my parents never let me roll the boat on holiday weekends when I was that young. At around 14-15 though we were.

RD

RD did you know the Houcks. Dads first name was Dan. They lived next to the fire chief in the keys?

 

[RiverDave]

RD did you know the Houcks. Dads first name was Dan. They lived next to the fire chief in the keys?

I know which house used to be theirs because I remember the sign, and the big 28 sleekcraft that used to sit in the carport. I didn't know them though.. I think my parents did?

RD

 

[prosthogod]

He owned a big asphalt company in Newport. They had two boys, we used to hang there went we went to the river. We would wake up the maid making us bloody Mary's . I miss the keys

 

[McRib]

It's gonna come down to registration numbers. If your boat is CF and the driver is 13 you're screwed. If you have AZ numbers your good to go. Both states have jurisdiction 25 miles into each state. I'd bet a ca cop could take it one further also buy asking to prove az residence with the AZ numbered boat. That could be a catch all considering many have AZ non resident registration to avoid CA luxury taxes.

 

[Dalton]

I think that's the only reason my parents brought me on the boat when I was that age, only time I could get the prop out of the water aswell [emoji322][emoji322][emoji3][emoji3]

 

[kevnmcd]

It's gonna come down to registration numbers. If your boat is CF and the driver is 13 you're screwed. If you have AZ numbers your good to go. Both states have jurisdiction 25 miles into each state. I'd bet a ca cop could take it one further also buy asking to prove az residence with the AZ numbered boat. That could be a catch all considering many have AZ non resident registration to avoid CA luxury taxes.

You don't have to be an AZ resident to register your boat in AZ. As long as you do most of your boating in AZ and not CA then it is perfectly legal to register your boat in AZ....a CA LEO has nothing to say about it. Now towing the boat on a trailer with AZ plates in CA without being a AZ resident is another story....that is a big NO NO.

 

[McRib]

You don't have to be an AZ resident to register your boat in AZ. As long as you do most of your boating in AZ and not CA then it is perfectly legal to register your boat in AZ....a CA LEO has nothing to say about it. Now towing the boat on a trailer with AZ plates in CA without being a AZ resident is another story....that is a big NO NO.

I know that. But when on the water and a 12 yr old is operating a CF registered boat in az he's gona get popped.

 

[BHC Vic]

You don't have to be an AZ resident to register your boat in AZ. As long as you do most of your boating in AZ and not CA then it is perfectly legal to register your boat in AZ....a CA LEO has nothing to say about it. Now towing the boat on a trailer with AZ plates in CA without being a AZ resident is another story....that is a big NO NO.

What if u own a house in az but live full time in Cali

 

[RiverDave]

It's gonna come down to registration numbers. If your boat is CF and the driver is 13 you're screwed. If you have AZ numbers your good to go. Both states have jurisdiction 25 miles into each state. I'd bet a ca cop could take it one further also buy asking to prove az residence with the AZ numbered boat. That could be a catch all considering many have AZ non resident registration to avoid CA luxury taxes.

I know that. But when on the water and a 12 yr old is operating a CF registered boat in az he's gona get popped.

Incorrect..

 

[FreeBird236]

Incorrect..

I don't know the answer, but your explanation doesn't make sense. How can a 15 yr. old AZ. resident, with a AZ. registered boat be ticketed by a Cal. sheriff, and how can they enforce it anyway, I'd never pay the ticket.

 

[2Driver]

I checked the common sense crystal ball and it said:

If your kid gets pulled over driving your boat and all the adults blow anything, you are going to be in a holding cell reading about it on the front page of the newspaper.

 

[minijeep]

I don't know the answer, but your explanation doesn't make sense. How can a 15 yr. old AZ. resident, with a AZ. registered boat be ticketed by a Cal. sheriff, and how can they enforce it anyway, I'd never pay the ticket.

I'm no lawyer, but I have a feeling it comes down to who stops you regardless of the where the boat is registered. I think of it like this, if you tow a boat in California >55MPH you'll get a ticket regardless of your vehicle registration. like wise, if I'm doing the speed limit (>55MPH) in AZ with California plates I'm not going to get pulled over because I'm doing the speed limit. It's just the way I see it.

 

[FreeBird236]

I'm no lawyer, but I have a feeling it comes down to who stops you regardless of the where the boat is registered. I think of it like this, if you tow a boat in California >55MPH you'll get a ticket regardless of your vehicle registration. like wise, if I'm doing the speed limit (>55MPH) in AZ with California plates I'm not going to get pulled over because I'm doing the speed limit. It's just the way I see it.

I'm not saying they can't be stopped or ticketed for a doing something wrong, just saying can't be ticketed for under age driving.

 

[Jed-O]

Just found this on google. It might help.
http://havasumagazine.com/boating.htm

Edit: Nevermind, they are just as confused as we are...

 

[Andy01]

I'm no lawyer, but I have a feeling it comes down to who stops you regardless of the where the boat is registered. I think of it like this, if you tow a boat in California >55MPH you'll get a ticket regardless of your vehicle registration. like wise, if I'm doing the speed limit (>55MPH) in AZ with California plates I'm not going to get pulled over because I'm doing the speed limit. It's just the way I see it.

If you pull a AZ registered trailer across the desert with a Ca plated truck and a CHP passes you, reassured you will be pulled over. Az doesn't have elected officials pissing money out the window on trains that go no where, and water diverting pipes. So Az doesn't care about your reg, Ca CHP gets paid off of registration. They are securing their own pay check by making sure everything that should be registered in Ca is registered in Ca.

 

[FreeBird236]

Just found this on google. It might help.
http://havasumagazine.com/boating.htm

Edit: Nevermind, they are just as confused as we are...

Thanks, I think that pretty much answers it.

 

[BoatCop]

Let's clear up a few misconceptions. First the variances in CA and AZ law.

State of registration and/or residency has no bearing on whether the 12/16 year old operator law is enforced. CA will enforce their laws anywhere on the River and AZ will enforce theirs. As an example, let's go back a few years when the OUI BAC was .08% in CA and .10% in AZ. If a CA cop stopped an AZ boat and the driver was .09%, do you think he'd just let him go? No. Also back when the age for life-jackets was 8 in CA and 13 in AZ do you think it mattered to me what state they lived in? No. If the 10 year old wasn't jacketed up, they got cited.

There also is no law in AZ requiring a sound producing device. (horn, whistle, bell, etc). But California, (or Nevada or Utah or the Coast Guard) will cite you if they stop you and you don't have one. No matter if you're an AZ registered boat, AZ resident or whatever.

As far as letting a kid drive when you're drunk. The concept behind allowing underage kids to drive with an adult on board is to allow the child to gain experience while the adult is right there to take control of the vessel in emergency situations or when the kid gets in over his/her head. In that light, the adult is in "actual physical control" of the vessel and, if impaired, can be arrested and charged with OUI even if the underage kid is actually driving. (as long as there isn't another sober adult on board). Remember that the law says "adult", not just an authorized driver. A child under 12 (or 12-15 in CA) cannot operate with his older, of age sibling (under 18) on board.

And it all depends on who stops you. The compact between the states allow each state to enforce their laws and courts to prosecute violations of law anywhere on the River/Lakes up to the normal high water mark on the opposite shoreline. The 25 mile inland provision allows the other state's peace officers to respond to emergency situations, provide back-up, and pursue violators into the other state and still maintain their law enforcement authority. It DOES NOT allow them to enforce their own state laws within the other state, nor does it allow them to bring a violator, against their will, back into the other state, if they are on dry land. However, they CAN arrest, cite and release the violator for an offense committed in the other state or on the boundary waterway. They can also detain a violator in the other state and book them into that state's jail or turn them over to that state's officers, if the offense is in violation of that state's laws. They can also detain (jail) the violator for up to 3 (business) days in the other state awaiting a warrant authorizing extradition back to the original state. At that time, normal extradition laws and compacts/agreements apply.

 

[mesquito_creek]

public safety officials are just the messenger and report taker of any particular event, at which point you are assumed innocent until convicted of a crime. You will end up in a courthouse with jurisdiction to enforce the laws of that particular state in which the LEO wrote your ticket or issued your arrest.

People boat in Havasu with registrations from all over the country, so it really doesn't matter one bit who you are an what state you register your junk. If you are written a ticket by a CA officer you will end up in a CA court subject to CA Law. If you get a ticket from and AZ Cop you will end up in AZ court subject AZ law... Its that simple...

When I boat on lakes completely contained by AZ, (Saguaro, Pleasant etc..) I fully am confident that my 14 year old child can drive the boat all day and night long without any regard to the impairment of its passengers...

When I boat on any lake with multi jurisdictional enforcement, I obey the laws of the most stringent possible enforcement encounter.

 

[FreeBird236]

Let's clear up a few misconceptions. First the variances in CA and AZ law.

State of registration and/or residency has no bearing on whether the 12/16 year old operator law is enforced. CA will enforce their laws anywhere on the River and AZ will enforce theirs. As an example, let's go back a few years when the OUI BAC was .08% in CA and .10% in AZ. If a CA cop stopped an AZ boat and the driver was .09%, do you think he'd just let him go? No. Also back when the age for life-jackets was 8 in CA and 13 in AZ do you think it mattered to me what state they lived in? No. If the 10 year old wasn't jacketed up, they got cited.

There also is no law in AZ requiring a sound producing device. (horn, whistle, bell, etc). But California, (or Nevada or Utah or the Coast Guard) will cite you if they stop you and you don't have one. No matter if you're an AZ registered boat, AZ resident or whatever.

As far as letting a kid drive when you're drunk. The concept behind allowing underage kids to drive with an adult on board is to allow the child to gain experience while the adult is right there to take control of the vessel in emergency situations or when the kid gets in over his/her head. In that light, the adult is in "actual physical control" of the vessel and, if impaired, can be arrested and charged with OUI even if the underage kid is actually driving. (as long as there isn't another sober adult on board). Remember that the law says "adult", not just an authorized driver. A child under 12 (or 12-15 in CA) cannot operate with his older, of age sibling (under 18) on board.

And it all depends on who stops you. The compact between the states allow each state to enforce their laws and courts to prosecute violations of law anywhere on the River/Lakes up to the normal high water mark on the opposite shoreline. The 25 mile inland provision allows the other state's peace officers to respond to emergency situations, provide back-up, and pursue violators into the other state and still maintain their law enforcement authority. It DOES NOT allow them to enforce their own state laws within the other state, nor does it allow them to bring a violator, against their will, back into the other state, if they are on dry land. However, they CAN arrest, cite and release the violator for an offense committed in the other state or on the boundary waterway. They can also detain a violator in the other state and book them into that state's jail or turn them over to that state's officers, if the offense is in violation of that state's laws. They can also detain (jail) the violator for up to 3 (business) days in the other state awaiting a warrant authorizing extradition back to the original state. At that time, normal extradition laws and compacts/agreements apply.

Thanks, I still think the age thing is pretty ridiculous. If I were a parent of a 15 year old AZ. citizen and the watercraft was registered in AZ. and they got a ticket from Ca. authorities for nothing more than the age, I would tell CA. to shove it where the sun don't shine.

 

[ILSMKU]

Let's clear up a few misconceptions. First the variances in CA and AZ law.

State of registration and/or residency has no bearing on whether the 12/16 year old operator law is enforced. CA will enforce their laws anywhere on the River and AZ will enforce theirs. As an example, let's go back a few years when the OUI BAC was .08% in CA and .10% in AZ. If a CA cop stopped an AZ boat and the driver was .09%, do you think he'd just let him go? No. Also back when the age for life-jackets was 8 in CA and 13 in AZ do you think it mattered to me what state they lived in? No. If the 10 year old wasn't jacketed up, they got cited.

There also is no law in AZ requiring a sound producing device. (horn, whistle, bell, etc). But California, (or Nevada or Utah or the Coast Guard) will cite you if they stop you and you don't have one. No matter if you're an AZ registered boat, AZ resident or whatever.

As far as letting a kid drive when you're drunk. The concept behind allowing underage kids to drive with an adult on board is to allow the child to gain experience while the adult is right there to take control of the vessel in emergency situations or when the kid gets in over his/her head. In that light, the adult is in "actual physical control" of the vessel and, if impaired, can be arrested and charged with OUI even if the underage kid is actually driving. (as long as there isn't another sober adult on board). Remember that the law says "adult", not just an authorized driver. A child under 12 (or 12-15 in CA) cannot operate with his older, of age sibling (under 18) on board.

And it all depends on who stops you. The compact between the states allow each state to enforce their laws and courts to prosecute violations of law anywhere on the River/Lakes up to the normal high water mark on the opposite shoreline. The 25 mile inland provision allows the other state's peace officers to respond to emergency situations, provide back-up, and pursue violators into the other state and still maintain their law enforcement authority. It DOES NOT allow them to enforce their own state laws within the other state, nor does it allow them to bring a violator, against their will, back into the other state, if they are on dry land. However, they CAN arrest, cite and release the violator for an offense committed in the other state or on the boundary waterway. They can also detain a violator in the other state and book them into that state's jail or turn them over to that state's officers, if the offense is in violation of that state's laws. They can also detain (jail) the violator for up to 3 (business) days in the other state awaiting a warrant authorizing extradition back to the original state. At that time, normal extradition laws and compacts/agreements apply.

Thank you as well.

 

[NicPaus]

So in Parker they must be 16 as they can possibly be pulled over by CA LEO ? Boat has AZ numbers and my Nephew is at that age where he needs to start learning how to drive.

 

[RiverDave]

Let's clear up a few misconceptions. First the variances in CA and AZ law.

State of registration and/or residency has no bearing on whether the 12/16 year old operator law is enforced. CA will enforce their laws anywhere on the River and AZ will enforce theirs. As an example, let's go back a few years when the OUI BAC was .08% in CA and .10% in AZ. If a CA cop stopped an AZ boat and the driver was .09%, do you think he'd just let him go? No. Also back when the age for life-jackets was 8 in CA and 13 in AZ do you think it mattered to me what state they lived in? No. If the 10 year old wasn't jacketed up, they got cited.

There also is no law in AZ requiring a sound producing device. (horn, whistle, bell, etc). But California, (or Nevada or Utah or the Coast Guard) will cite you if they stop you and you don't have one. No matter if you're an AZ registered boat, AZ resident or whatever.

As far as letting a kid drive when you're drunk. The concept behind allowing underage kids to drive with an adult on board is to allow the child to gain experience while the adult is right there to take control of the vessel in emergency situations or when the kid gets in over his/her head. In that light, the adult is in "actual physical control" of the vessel and, if impaired, can be arrested and charged with OUI even if the underage kid is actually driving. (as long as there isn't another sober adult on board). Remember that the law says "adult", not just an authorized driver. A child under 12 (or 12-15 in CA) cannot operate with his older, of age sibling (under 18) on board.

And it all depends on who stops you. The compact between the states allow each state to enforce their laws and courts to prosecute violations of law anywhere on the River/Lakes up to the normal high water mark on the opposite shoreline. The 25 mile inland provision allows the other state's peace officers to respond to emergency situations, provide back-up, and pursue violators into the other state and still maintain their law enforcement authority. It DOES NOT allow them to enforce their own state laws within the other state, nor does it allow them to bring a violator, against their will, back into the other state, if they are on dry land. However, they CAN arrest, cite and release the violator for an offense committed in the other state or on the boundary waterway. They can also detain a violator in the other state and book them into that state's jail or turn them over to that state's officers, if the offense is in violation of that state's laws. They can also detain (jail) the violator for up to 3 (business) days in the other state awaiting a warrant authorizing extradition back to the original state. At that time, normal extradition laws and compacts/agreements apply.

So to basically add to that, once the child is 12 and older in the state of AZ technically they can drive the boat by themselves, and are considered an operator. Where as in CA they are not under 16 years of age. So CA adult would get a DUI if the kid was driving and the adult was over the limit. In AZ they would not get the DUI.

However though in an ironic twist regarding lifejackets the AZ law is 12 AND under.. So technically a 12 year old could drive a boat, but would have to wear the life jacket until he was 13..

Thanks, I still think the age thing is pretty ridiculous. If I were a parent of a 15 year old AZ. citizen and the watercraft was registered in AZ. and they got a ticket from Ca. authorities for nothing more than the age, I would tell CA. to shove it where the sun don't shine.

And eventually that would catch up with you at some point.

So in Parker they must be 16 as they can possibly be pulled over by CA LEO ? Boat has AZ numbers and my Nephew is at that age where he needs to start learning how to drive.

Well technically anywhere on the water where they "could" get pulled over by CA water cops. Personally I wouldn't worry about it too much if there's an adult supervising the program.

I mean technically my kids riding on my lap and "steering" when they are 2-3 years old is "illegal." There's some law about passengers being in front of the captain.. Then you factor in the kid technically being in control of the boat.. I couldn't tell you the actual #'s, but I'm sure boatcop could rustle some up from memory.

But who the hell is going to pull over and cite a dad that is making memories with his toddlers and encouraging boating in their lives? Answer - no one. So I don't worry about it.

RD

 

[prosthogod]

So to basically add to that, once the child is 12 and older in the state of AZ technically they can drive the boat by themselves, and are considered an operator. Where as in CA they are not under 16 years of age. So CA adult would get a DUI if the kid was driving and the adult was over the limit. In AZ they would not get the DUI.

However though in an ironic twist regarding lifejackets the AZ law is 12 AND under.. So technically a 12 year old could drive a boat, but would have to wear the life jacket until he was 13..



And eventually that would catch up with you at some point.



Well technically anywhere on the water where they "could" get pulled over by CA water cops. Personally I wouldn't worry about it too much if there's an adult supervising the program.

I mean technically my kids riding on my lap and "steering" when they are 2-3 years old is "illegal." There's some law about passengers being in front of the captain.. Then you factor in the kid technically being in control of the boat.. I couldn't tell you the actual #'s, but I'm sure boatcop could rustle some up from memory.

But who the hell is going to pull over and cite a dad that is making memories with his toddlers and encouraging boating in their lives? Answer - no one. So I don't worry about it.

RD

To answer your question Dave, most cops who need to gain revenue and are on a power trip.

 

[Bobby V]

If you pull a AZ registered trailer across the desert with a Ca plated truck and a CHP passes you, reassured you will be pulled over. Az doesn't have elected officials pissing money out the window on trains that go no where, and water diverting pipes. So Az doesn't care about your reg, Ca CHP gets paid off of registration. They are securing their own pay check by making sure everything that should be registered in Ca is registered in Ca.

Does anybody have the vehicle code for this law. Just yesterday I was telling my neighbor this same exact thing and he said I was full of it.

 

[HALLETT BOY]

Shit , between mussel laws and every other boating law , you're probably breaking about 10 -12 laws before you even
put the boat in the water , might as well drive right over to the jail and surrender .

 

[BoatCop]

No cop is going to pull over a boat where the Dad is teaching the kid, of any age, to drive. (Except those with a quota and/or have something to prove) The only time that this would be a scenario would be in case of collision or a close call, witnessed by the officer. The law was meant primarily for PWCs and children operating by themselves.

We have been trying for several years to get the age limit raised in AZ. However, there aren't the accident statistics involving minors in AZ to get it past the legislature. They don't want to hear the numbers from other states. Only what's occurred in AZ, and the numbers just aren't there. (We weren't upset that the numbers aren't there, just worried about when the numbers catch up with us). And it's also possible that the CA law is keeping a lot of kids off boats/PWCs on the Colorado River and its Lakes, which have historically had the most accidents of any other waterway in the state.

As far as the two different laws and enforcement, it falls under constitutional issues and equal protection. Take a case of two 14 year old cousins, one a CA resident operating a CA registered PWC and the other an AZ resident operating an AZ registered PWC. While side by side on the River, they are stopped by a CA officer, who cites just the CA resident. That wouldn't pass the concept of the "equal protection" clause of the Constitution.

Absent a specific statutory exemption, if a particular act is illegal for one, it's illegal for all.

And for anyone wanting to allow their 12-15 year old teenager to operate their PWC, would you turn the kid loose alone on a motorcycle, capable of 65+ MPH on the 91 Freeway with no brakes? Probably not.

Then why would you turn them loose on the Parker Strip or Lake Havasu on Memorial Day weekend on the same type of vessel/vehicle?

 

[Riverson]

No cop is going to pull over a boat where the Dad is teaching the kid, of any age, to drive. (Except those with a quota and/or have something to prove) The only time that this would be a scenario would be in case of collision or a close call, witnessed by the officer. The law was meant primarily for PWCs and children operating by themselves.

We have been trying for several years to get the age limit raised in AZ. However, there aren't the accident statistics involving minors in AZ to get it past the legislature. They don't want to hear the numbers from other states. Only what's occurred in AZ, and the numbers just aren't there. (We weren't upset that the numbers aren't there, just worried about when the numbers catch up with us). And it's also possible that the CA law is keeping a lot of kids off boats/PWCs on the Colorado River and its Lakes, which have historically had the most accidents of any other waterway in the state.

As far as the two different laws and enforcement, it falls under constitutional issues and equal protection. Take a case of two 14 year old cousins, one a CA resident operating a CA registered PWC and the other an AZ resident operating an AZ registered PWC. While side by side on the River, they are stopped by a CA officer, who cites just the CA resident. That wouldn't pass the concept of the "equal protection" clause of the Constitution.

Absent a specific statutory exemption, if a particular act is illegal for one, it's illegal for all.

And for anyone wanting to allow their 12-15 year old teenager to operate their PWC, would you turn the kid loose alone on a motorcycle, capable of 65+ MPH on the 91 Freeway with no brakes? Probably not.

Then why would you turn them loose on the Parker Strip or Lake Havasu on Memorial Day weekend on the same type of vessel/vehicle?

It seems to me equal protection concept would allow only the least stringent laws to be enforced in the case of joint jurisdiction. I know this isn't the fact, but in your example using the least restrictive law would allow "equal protection".

Under that doctrine, it just seems more clear to use the least restrictive state law during enforcement?

Alan, please don't take this as an argument, it isn't. Just wondered what you thought about that take on the equal protection example.

 

[Feelin Nauti]

Let's clear up a few misconceptions. First the variances in CA and AZ law.

State of registration and/or residency has no bearing on whether the 12/16 year old operator law is enforced. CA will enforce their laws anywhere on the River and AZ will enforce theirs. As an example, let's go back a few years when the OUI BAC was .08% in CA and .10% in AZ. If a CA cop stopped an AZ boat and the driver was .09%, do you think he'd just let him go? No. Also back when the age for life-jackets was 8 in CA and 13 in AZ do you think it mattered to me what state they lived in? No. If the 10 year old wasn't jacketed up, they got cited.

There also is no law in AZ requiring a sound producing device. (horn, whistle, bell, etc). But California, (or Nevada or Utah or the Coast Guard) will cite you if they stop you and you don't have one. No matter if you're an AZ registered boat, AZ resident or whatever.

As far as letting a kid drive when you're drunk. The concept behind allowing underage kids to drive with an adult on board is to allow the child to gain experience while the adult is right there to take control of the vessel in emergency situations or when the kid gets in over his/her head. In that light, the adult is in "actual physical control" of the vessel and, if impaired, can be arrested and charged with OUI even if the underage kid is actually driving. (as long as there isn't another sober adult on board). Remember that the law says "adult", not just an authorized driver. A child under 12 (or 12-15 in CA) cannot operate with his older, of age sibling (under 18) on board.

And it all depends on who stops you. The compact between the states allow each state to enforce their laws and courts to prosecute violations of law anywhere on the River/Lakes up to the normal high water mark on the opposite shoreline. The 25 mile inland provision allows the other state's peace officers to respond to emergency situations, provide back-up, and pursue violators into the other state and still maintain their law enforcement authority. It DOES NOT allow them to enforce their own state laws within the other state, nor does it allow them to bring a violator, against their will, back into the other state, if they are on dry land. However, they CAN arrest, cite and release the violator for an offense committed in the other state or on the boundary waterway. They can also detain a violator in the other state and book them into that state's jail or turn them over to that state's officers, if the offense is in violation of that state's laws. They can also detain (jail) the violator for up to 3 (business) days in the other state awaiting a warrant authorizing extradition back to the original state. At that time, normal extradition laws and compacts/agreements apply.

so if im following the law as stated for az residents and boat is registered in az but somehow run afowl of a CA law I can be cited and go to court even though what I did is legal in az???????? what about carrying on a boat? is a Ca cop going to arrest me if I have a firearm on my az boat?

 

[BoatCop]

so if im following the law as stated for az residents and boat is registered in az but somehow run afowl of a CA law I can be cited and go to court even though what I did is legal in az???????? what about carrying on a boat? is a Ca cop going to arrest me if I have a firearm on my az boat?

When I was Coast Guard on the River I cited scores of AZ people who didn't have sound producing devices (whistle, horn, etc) while AZ did not require them. Each agency enforces the law as it applies in their state, or in the case of the Coast Guard, on a Federal Waterway.

The compact actually states that a person cannot be prosecuted for conduct that is legal in one state and occurs entirely within that state. It also states that the compact does NOT authorize or legalize conduct that is illegal in either state.

It's worded rather ambiguously, as there is no part of the River that is entirely within one state, so the AZ "legal" conduct would be illegal anywhere on the River, since anywhere on the River (or Lake) is also California waters. However the key point is that it prohibits conduct illegal in EITHER state.

Until a court rules otherwise, the more restrictive law is what should be followed.

 

[77charger]

I would think if you are worried about being an az boat or res and worried about getting nabbed by a ca law then best would be to stay in an inland az lake.

The downside to multiple agencies is "their laws"will be enforced.

My son in 13 now and i wouldnt mind him driving me around if i drink a beer but have known it wont fly if pulled over.My wife on the other hand does not drink but dont care to drive the boat but if i let my son drive she would be the "responsible adult"to supervise and i would then be ok.

 

[Patyacht]

So what checks and balances are there to stop that Rogue CA cop wanting to move to the head of the class? And how about an AZ CCW permitted individual carrying a weapon on their boat and the get "Safety" checked by a CA cop?

 

[BajaT]

Isn't the only question at what age does a kid have to have an id? Your kid is 16....Good to go!

 

[mesquito_creek]

So what checks and balances are there to stop that Rogue CA cop wanting to move to the head of the class? And how about an AZ CCW permitted individual carrying a weapon on their boat and the get "Safety" checked by a CA cop?

I would think that you would approach this situation in the same manner that you would handle any traffic stop regarding how you communicate with the officer your legally armed status. i probably wouldn't say anything if I could comply with the safety inspection without compromising anyone's safety. If my gun was in the same location as my registration and I planned on accessing it for the officer I would have the same discussion that I would have in my vehicles before I accessed that area. Having said that, I can't say I have ever pressed the gun/river/border issue before... I just haven't ever thought to carry on my boat in a bathing suit..

 

[RiverDave]

So what checks and balances are there to stop that Rogue CA cop wanting to move to the head of the class? And how about an AZ CCW permitted individual carrying a weapon on their boat and the get "Safety" checked by a CA cop?

Pat during the safety check you just have to show them the equipment.. I have never been boarded and searched before. ??

Isn't the only question at what age does a kid have to have an id? Your kid is 16....Good to go!

I would think that you would approach this situation in the same manner that you would handle any traffic stop regarding how you communicate with the officer your legally armed status. i probably wouldn't say anything if I could comply with the safety inspection without compromising anyone's safety. If my gun was in the same location as my registration and I planned on accessing it for the officer I would have the same discussion that I would have in my vehicles before I accessed that area. Having said that, I can't say I have ever pressed the gun/river/border issue before... I just haven't ever thought to carry on my boat in a bathing suit..

x 100.. I'm all for carrying, and support peoples rights to arms. But I have never felt the need to carry a gun on a boat before? I can't even imagine why I would need a gun while I'm out in my boat?

RD

 

[Outdrive1]

Pat during the safety check you just have to show them the equipment.. I have never been boarded and searched before. ??





x 100.. I'm all for carrying, and support peoples rights to arms. But I have never felt the need to carry a gun on a boat before? I can't even imagine why I would need a gun while I'm out in my boat?

RD

They have the right to search a vessel on navigable waters without probable cause.

http://www.uscg.mil/legal/cgho/cghoart/INFORMATION/HOA1ART1.htm

 

[vegasandy]

x 100.. I'm all for carrying, and support peoples rights to arms. But I have never felt the need to carry a gun on a boat before? I can't even imagine why I would need a gun while I'm out in my boat?

RD[/QUOTE]

River Pirates?

 

[primetime]

In order to operate a boat in AZ and born after a certain date you also need to have taken the boaters course online. My kid is 13, took his course (and passed). We asked a ranger at lake Mohave and they said he is allowed to drive with no adult supervision as long as he has his boater cert.????? Not that I would let him but this is what they said

 

[Riverson]

Until a court rules otherwise, the more restrictive law is what should be followed.

2 people are pulled over by 2 different agencies and enforcement of the more restrictive law would violate the equal protection doctrine. It follows that the least restrictive law should be enforced by all agencies on federal waterways. I'm only assuming the issue has never been litigated to conclusion .

 

[Bradsrvrtoy.]

In order to operate a boat in AZ and born after a certain date you also need to have taken the boaters course online. My kid is 13, took his course (and passed). We asked a ranger at lake Mohave and they said he is allowed to drive with no adult supervision as long as he has his boater cert.????? Not that I would let him but this is what they said

There is no required boat certification in AZ 12 and older they are good to go be a boat or pwc by themselves...not to say that having your son take the course and learn somethings is not a good thing. I will definitely have my kids pass the course and be trained by me before operating a jetski or boat alone:thumbup:

 

[primetime]

There is no boat certification in AZ 12 and older they are good to go be a boat or pwc by themselves...not to say that having your son take the course and learn somethings is not a good thing. I will definitely have my kids pass the course and be trained by me before operating a jetski or boat alone:thumbup:

I forgot where I read it but it said AZ and NV require a course after a certain birthdate.