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Speed UTV take 3

DWC

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Honestly I told him what does this all look like in 5 years? Will Robby still be making cars? Will they be updated? Maybe he gets bored and bails on the project after finishing the initial run? Who will service them or produce parts?
All of this ^^^.
 

NIKAL

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1. I didn't even know they had an energy drink? I suppose that if any race team lost any sponsor, that could definitely be devastating?

2. I would imagine the SxS company (Speed), would be a sponsor of the race team? Not the other way around?

(One brings in money and one spends money. Expense vs. income. Yano?)

3. So speaking of income...

Since Speed has zero income at this point, and definitely hemorrhaging huge dollars, where are those dollars coming from?

And who at this point IS sponsoring the race team? Anyone that has been part of any race team, knows it costs cubic dollars to race. So where is that coming from?

It's hard to imagine any legit business running this way.

Only the board of directors knows the answers to all of these questions.

Which brings up another question...

I wonder who sits on that board? 🤔
Interesting you had no idea about Speed Energy drink? To be honest I don’t think they sell allot of it now, but it’s been around for years.

How do you know that RMG /Speed does not have any income? Even if Speed is only making 10K per car, and if they have delivered 1000 cars to date, that’s $10 million. Now I agree they are in this for allot more then $10 million, But RG’s smart in business. He rarely plays with house money, and owns several other businesses. He’s got Speed tools, Speed RC, SST. He owns some commercial property in Cal & NC. The family still has Gordon Feed, he owns part of the Norra series, he bought & owns Arrington Racing Engines, which he bought when Joey wanted to retire. That building is the old Evernham engine shop that Arrington was building the Dodge NASCAR engines out of. This is the shop where the Speed engine was designed & tested. The NC RGM/Speed employees now work out of that building, and the company still builds performance engines, regional racing engines and sprint car engines. My understanding is nothing changed when Joey retired and Robby bought it. The same people are working & running it.

As far as sponsoring the race team? What race team? They have a few race and production UTV’s that race when they want to, and the race ones don’t even say Speed on them. I think the cost to race these UTV’s is pennies vs what other UTV teams spend and remember they are using mostly production parts even on the race UTV’s, so the production costs are 1/3rd the retail costs.

Now I do agree even with all the outside business ventures, Speed UTV is not sustainable if they don’t start resolving the issues, getting cars in customers hands, and getting the cars reliable where new and future customers want to buy a Speed UTV. I think they need to look at the structure of the company, because you can’t keep going on making it up on the fly. Imo the best thing they could do is bring in a real professional CEO that knows how to scale and build up an automotive type company. At some point you have to start spending money to make money. Let this professional lay out the business plan and bring people in to build & run the different depts. RG has always like to do allot with a little. His NASCAR teams ran on 1/2 the staff other single car teams did. And he had those same people working on Score & Dakar vehicles on top of NASCAR cars. But Speed UTV is way bigger than any business RG has owned or ran, and it’s got the potential to be a $100 million dollar company if run by knowledgeable people who know how to run this sort of business.

Heck find a young CEO or VP that’s trying to prove himself and let them come in. Polaris current CEO Mike Speetzen before coming to Polaris was with Xylem (water pumps) and before that was with Honeywell & GE. So you don’t need to be from the Powersport or automotive industry to know how to structure a Powersport company.
 

rivermobster

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Interesting you had no idea about Speed Energy drink? To be honest I don’t think they sell allot of it now, but it’s been around for years.

How do you know that RMG /Speed does not have any income? Even if Speed is only making 10K per car, and if they have delivered 1000 cars to date, that’s $10 million. Now I agree they are in this for allot more then $10 million, But RG’s smart in business. He rarely plays with house money, and owns several other businesses. He’s got Speed tools, Speed RC, SST. He owns some commercial property in Cal & NC. The family still has Gordon Feed, he owns part of the Norra series, he bought & owns Arrington Racing Engines, which he bought when Joey wanted to retire. That building is the old Evernham engine shop that Arrington was building the Dodge NASCAR engines out of. This is the shop where the Speed engine was designed & tested. The NC RGM/Speed employees now work out of that building, and the company still builds performance engines, regional racing engines and sprint car engines. My understanding is nothing changed when Joey retired and Robby bought it. The same people are working & running it.

As far as sponsoring the race team? What race team? They have a few race and production UTV’s that race when they want to, and the race ones don’t even say Speed on them. I think the cost to race these UTV’s is pennies vs what other UTV teams spend and remember they are using mostly production parts even on the race UTV’s, so the production costs are 1/3rd the retail costs.

Now I do agree even with all the outside business ventures, Speed UTV is not sustainable if they don’t start resolving the issues, getting cars in customers hands, and getting the cars reliable where new and future customers want to buy a Speed UTV. I think they need to look at the structure of the company, because you can’t keep going on making it up on the fly. Imo the best thing they could do is bring in a real professional CEO that knows how to scale and build up an automotive type company. At some point you have to start spending money to make money. Let this professional lay out the business plan and bring people in to build & run the different depts. RG has always like to do allot with a little. His NASCAR teams ran on 1/2 the staff other single car teams did. And he had those same people working on Score & Dakar vehicles on top of NASCAR cars. But Speed UTV is way bigger than any business RG has owned or ran, and it’s got the potential to be a $100 million dollar company if run by knowledgeable people who know how to run this sort of business.

Heck find a young CEO or VP that’s trying to prove himself and let them come in. Polaris current CEO Mike Speetzen before coming to Polaris was with Xylem (water pumps) and before that was with Honeywell & GE. So you don’t need to be from the Powersport or automotive industry to know how to structure a Powersport company.

Nice rant.

But as RD was trying to point out...

"Do you think it's all the same money?"

🤔

And IF he is so stupid rich, as you seem to think he is...

Why not do the right thing, and refund all the deposit money he's taking in, when someone asks for it back?

That would make him look So more honorable in the long run.

The car may be (somewhat) impressive, but the business resembles so many failed boat businesses we've all seen come and go.

Once again...

There is no Legit reason for that.
 

NIKAL

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And IF he is so stupid rich, as you seem to think he is...

Why not do the right thing, and refund all the deposit money he's taking in, when someone asks for it back?

That would make him look So more honorable in the long run.

The car may be (somewhat) impressive, but the business resembles so many failed boat businesses we've all seen come and go.

Once again...

There is no Legit reason for that.

I never said he’s stupid rich, even though I bet on paper he probably is due to the valuations of companies and property’s owned. But also he’s smart, it’s all LLC’s and if Speed UTV fails, nothing else is affected.

100% agree about deposits. I’ve said it before, if the car is so good, then they should be confident in the product that another customer will buy it. Why would you want to hold your customers hostage and be a disgruntled customer. Your customers are the best sales person & advertising you can have. And they can also do the most damage to a company’s reputation and future sales.

Plus holding people’s money is illegal, and all it’s going to take is one guy to hire a two bit attorney and when they win the case, which they will, the house of cards will come down.

And I totally agree that Robby, Todd & the Speed brand would be more respected, if they did the right thing and returned people’s money when requested. I’d suspect sales would increase too, as people are now afraid to get involved with Speed as they see how they are treating their loyal customers. My only guess is maybe Speed has some responsibility to a Bank or Hisun to show sales and customers, for them to not be in breach of contract between the two parties? It sounds strange, but that’s my only guess as to why Speed will only willingly refund people after they find a replacement buyer.
 

Pivot

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This is amazing.. someone says “I would guess it’s around this number”. Then the peanut gallery says “that is just unacceptable” and just proceeds to pile on, even to the point of borderline accusing of embezzlement with zero facts..


Are you listening to yourselves?
Wasnt me!!!
 

Todd Mohr

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I never said he’s stupid rich, even though I bet on paper he probably is due to the valuations of companies and property’s owned. But also he’s smart, it’s all LLC’s and if Speed UTV fails, nothing else is affected.

100% agree about deposits. I’ve said it before, if the car is so good, then they should be confident in the product that another customer will buy it. Why would you want to hold your customers hostage and be a disgruntled customer. Your customers are the best sales person & advertising you can have. And they can also do the most damage to a company’s reputation and future sales.

Plus holding people’s money is illegal, and all it’s going to take is one guy to hire a two bit attorney and when they win the case, which they will, the house of cards will come down.

And I totally agree that Robby, Todd & the Speed brand would be more respected, if they did the right thing and returned people’s money when requested. I’d suspect sales would increase too, as people are now afraid to get involved with Speed as they see how they are treating their loyal customers. My only guess is maybe Speed has some responsibility to a Bank or Hisun to show sales and customers, for them to not be in breach of contract between the two parties? It sounds strange, but that’s my only guess as to why Speed will only willingly refund people after they find a replacement buyer.
The deposits were made with the knowledge that they were not refundable, we all signed up for that. I knew it was a risk to put one down for an unproven car and company, the other brands really didn't appeal to me in 2020. I'd most likely get a new CanAm 2 seater with the DCT trans if I needed a car now. They are 47k and my price on the El Diablo is 33k.
 

rivermobster

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I never said he’s stupid rich, even though I bet on paper he probably is due to the valuations of companies and property’s owned. But also he’s smart, it’s all LLC’s and if Speed UTV fails, nothing else is affected.

100% agree about deposits. I’ve said it before, if the car is so good, then they should be confident in the product that another customer will buy it. Why would you want to hold your customers hostage and be a disgruntled customer. Your customers are the best sales person & advertising you can have. And they can also do the most damage to a company’s reputation and future sales.

Plus holding people’s money is illegal, and all it’s going to take is one guy to hire a two bit attorney and when they win the case, which they will, the house of cards will come down.

And I totally agree that Robby, Todd & the Speed brand would be more respected, if they did the right thing and returned people’s money when requested. I’d suspect sales would increase too, as people are now afraid to get involved with Speed as they see how they are treating their loyal customers. My only guess is maybe Speed has some responsibility to a Bank or Hisun to show sales and customers, for them to not be in breach of contract between the two parties? It sounds strange, but that’s my only guess as to why Speed will only willingly refund people after they find a replacement buyer.

I worked for Penske for over five years. Greg and Roger built a HUGE empire by treating people with over the top service.

Those, are smart guys.
 

NIKAL

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The deposits were made with the knowledge that they were not refundable, we all signed up for that. I knew it was a risk to put one down for an unproven car and company, the other brands really didn't appeal to me in 2020. I'd most likely get a new CanAm 2 seater with the DCT trans if I needed a car now. They are 47k and my price on the El Diablo is 33k.
The actual deposit was noted as non refundable, but in many states like California they can’t keep your deposit. Plus that’s only for the initial $1500. Any more money put towards the principal, or for accessories was not part of the deposit and they have not been willing to return those moneys to those who have asked. Plus Speed is in breach of contract as they have missed multiple deadlines, and multiple times sent letters saying you need to do your final build and accessories purchase as we are placing your build order with the factory. Leading people to think they need to buy now as the car is coming.
 

MonkeyButt70

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The actual deposit was noted as non refundable, but in many states like California they can’t keep your deposit. Plus that’s only for the initial $1500. Any more money put towards the principal, or for accessories was not part of the deposit and they have not been willing to return those moneys to those who have asked. Plus Speed is in breach of contract as they have missed multiple deadlines, and multiple times sent letters saying you need to do your final build and accessories purchase as we are placing your build order with the factory. Leading people to think they need to buy now as the car
The people that put money down and payments for the Tesla Roadster are in the same boat. There is not much they can do from what I understand other than hope their cars get built.
 

Romans9

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The deposits were made with the knowledge that they were not refundable, we all signed up for that. I knew it was a risk to put one down for an unproven car and company, the other brands really didn't appeal to me in 2020. I'd most likely get a new CanAm 2 seater with the DCT trans if I needed a car now. They are 47k and my price on the El Diablo is 33k.


Not today. They are $37,500.00 Smart Shock

IMG_5072.jpeg
 

NIKAL

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The people that put money down and payments for the Tesla Roadster are in the same boat. There is not much they can do from what I understand other than hope their cars get built.
Actually the Tesla deposits are fully refundable. The Roadster deposit is is a bit different then the other Tesla deposits. It’s a $5000 deposit, and bal $45K deposit due within 10 business days. Both deposits are fully refundable up to the day of signing. I think they did this to control who orders and how series a buyer is. Other Teslas used to be a $100 deposit, and I think the Cybertruck was $1000, but all are refundable.
 

MonkeyButt70

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Actually the Tesla deposits are fully refundable. The Roadster deposit is is a bit different then the other Tesla deposits. It’s a $5000 deposit, and bal $45K deposit due within 10 business days. Both deposits are fully refundable up to the day of signing. I think they did this to control who orders and how series a buyer is. Other Teslas used to be a $100 deposit, and I think the Cybertruck was $1000, but all are refundable.
From what I have been seeing online with some people that the deposits have been very difficult to get back.

Here is one example i watched on it.

 

zhandfull

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As much as I think this is high risk.

I’m willing to gamble and take over someone’s $1,500.00 deposit. Really only interested in a base speed car without all the fancy shit. 😁
 

Deckin Around

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As much as I think this is high risk.

I’m willing to gamble and take over someone’s $1,500.00 deposit. Really only interested in a base speed car without all the fancy shit. 😁
I think it's a good gamble on a deal to get a car locked in at the $30k price if you don't care when it shows up.

That's like the order I still have left, #3200 base model with no options paid for. I have other utv's so I am fine waiting. The more time that goes by, the more confident I actually am that they will get all the big problems worked out before my car is built.
That order I placed 9/2021 and 7/2022 (During Covid for all you with the covid timeline excuse) I got the email that it was time to finalize my options because the car was going into production. 😄 I now expect the car in 2026 at best.

The base model is really the way to go imo now that they finalized what the package options were. I priced out doing the same "Base model" to "LE model" to "RG" upgrades myself which would be; custom PRP seats with heaters, 5 pt harnesses, aluminum roof, beadlock wheels/tires, radio and window nets and it was much cheaper than the $15k sticker price difference at the time. I'd rather make the car more custom than all factory options anyway so it was a no brainer. The only upgrades from the LE to the RG is a radio and window nets and I 100% did not want an orange cage and suspension so the RG model was out from the start. Previously there were specs for internal bypass shocks and non bypass shocks on the cheaper cars which warranted a price difference but there is no mention of that anymore on the order website. I am thinking they just decided to use the same shocks on all cars to streamline parts and manufacturing and so some videos don't show up on youtube looking like the cars ride like shit.
 
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NIKAL

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I think it's a good gamble on a deal to get a car locked in at the $30k price if you don't care when it shows up.

That's like the order I still have left, #3200 base model with no options paid for. I have other utv's so I am fine waiting. The more time that goes by, the more confident I actually am that they will get all the big problems worked out before my car is built.
That order I placed 9/2021 and 7/2022 (During Covid for all you with the covid timeline excuse) I got the email that it was time to finalize my options because the car was going into production. 😄 I now expect the car in 2026 at best.

The base model is really the way to go imo now that they finalized what the package options were. I priced out doing the same "Base model" to "LE model" to "RG" upgrades myself which would be; custom PRP seats with heaters, 5 pt harnesses, aluminum roof, beadlock wheels/tires, radio and window nets and it was much cheaper than the $15k sticker price difference at the time. I'd rather make the car more custom than all factory options anyway so it was a no brainer. The only upgrades from the LE to the RG is a radio and window nets and I 100% did not want an orange cage and suspension so the RG model was out from the start. Previously there were specs for internal bypass shocks and non bypass shocks on the cheaper cars which warranted a price difference but there is no mention of that anymore on the order website. I am thinking they just decided to use the same shocks on all cars to streamline parts and manufacturing and so some videos don't show up on youtube looking like the cars ride like shit.
I think your car number is so high they have not even thought about you. I say this because the base model car was eliminated (Yes I know it’s still on the website, but that websites a joke) I know two people who ordered Base cars, and were told they needed to upgrade to the LE car as they were not going to make base models, or 72 inch Bandit models, even though the said they were and took deposits on them. My friend who had a base Diablo on order was given the option to get the LE at the price it was at that time or be refunded his deposit. But who knows maybe by the time they get to 3000, they will have made all the base parts like standard shocks, which were not going to be IBS or 3.2 diameter. The plastic seats & steering wheel, and non beadlock wheels.
 

Deckin Around

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I think your car number is so high they have not even thought about you. I say this because the base model car was eliminated (Yes I know it’s still on the website, but that websites a joke) I know two people who ordered Base cars, and were told they needed to upgrade to the LE car as they were not going to make base models, or 72 inch Bandit models, even though the said they were and took deposits on them. My friend who had a base Diablo on order was given the option to get the LE at the price it was at that time or be refunded his deposit. But who knows maybe by the time they get to 3000, they will have made all the base parts like standard shocks, which were not going to be IBS or 3.2 diameter. The plastic seats & steering wheel, and non beadlock wheels.
Oh I got an email from Karla for a "discount upgrade", and then another better upgrade and I still replied no.
Hopefully I get to drive away something at the $30k mark.
 

Todd Mohr

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I think your car number is so high they have not even thought about you. I say this because the base model car was eliminated (Yes I know it’s still on the website, but that websites a joke) I know two people who ordered Base cars, and were told they needed to upgrade to the LE car as they were not going to make base models, or 72 inch Bandit models, even though the said they were and took deposits on them. My friend who had a base Diablo on order was given the option to get the LE at the price it was at that time or be refunded his deposit. But who knows maybe by the time they get to 3000, they will have made all the base parts like standard shocks, which were not going to be IBS or 3.2 diameter. The plastic seats & steering wheel, and non beadlock wheels.
I had a base car and was told I needed to upgrade to LE and they were not ever going to build a base car. So I upgraded to the LE, if I ever get a car the upgrade will be worth it.
 

SJP

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Update - Gigi and I had dinner last night with my friend *1800 something his lovely wife. Wife did not realize they are 20K down and still no date in sight. I would not want to owe her a stick of gum… I think things went sideways here with this deal when they required accessories to be purchased. I will let you know how this plays out with him but he was given the green light to go buy something. I told them what @Racer56 said about going down there and seeing about jumping slots. Crickets. I would have a bank check ready when she visits the shop. LOL
 

rivermobster

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Update - Gigi and I had dinner last night with my friend *1800 something his lovely wife. Wife did not realize they are 20K down and still no date in sight. I would not want to owe her a stick of gum… I think things went sideways here with this deal when they required accessories to be purchased. I will let you know how this plays out with him but he was given the green light to go buy something. I told them what @Racer56 said about going down there and seeing about jumping slots. Crickets. I would have a bank check ready when she visits the shop. LOL

Same situation as my friend...

Bought every option they had. Hard sell style...

"If you don't order it now, it may not be available later on!"

Now all these years later, he has zero interest in the car anymore. It's just a sore spot for him, cause he knows he was stupid.

But the service! 🙄
 

sandshark1

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1. I didn't even know they had an energy drink? I suppose that if any race team lost any sponsor, that could definitely be devastating?

2. I would imagine the SxS company (Speed), would be a sponsor of the race team? Not the other way around?

(One brings in money and one spends money. Expense vs. income. Yano?)

3. So speaking of income...

Since Speed has zero income at this point, and definitely hemorrhaging huge dollars, where are those dollars coming from?

And who at this point IS sponsoring the race team? Anyone that has been part of any race team, knows it costs cubic dollars to race. So where is that coming from?

It's hard to imagine any legit business running this way.

Only the board of directors knows the answers to all of these questions.

Which brings up another question...

I wonder who sits on that board? 🤔

Speed racing is a business expense for R&D for Speed UTV.
 

Bpracing1127

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So max came in 2nd out of 4 total in his class 30 min behind first at the Parker dam 500 this weekend. If they raced in pro turbo would have been 11th out of 18 cars (12 finished) he more than 1 hour behind first place in pro turbo class.

This is their backyard too.

#not impressed
 

SkyDirtWaterguy

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Idk why anyone is screwing around anymore with these Speed cars? I walked into AZ West last weekend and picked up a New 2025 RZR PRO R 4. Had them put 35” tires on it and drove it out two hours later. The thing is badass and imagine it would hold its own against anything else in its class. What is with 205 pages of Speed Car ranting about again??
 

sandshark1

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So max came in 2nd out of 4 total in his class 30 min behind first at the Parker dam 500 this weekend. If they raced in pro turbo would have been 11th out of 18 cars (12 finished) he more than 1 hour behind first place in pro turbo class.

This is their backyard too.

#not impressed
There was at least one UTV in the n/a class that finished with a better time than Max. Max probably lost 30 or more minutes just on belt changes.
 

sandshark1

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As much as I think this is high risk.

I’m willing to gamble and take over someone’s $1,500.00 deposit. Really only interested in a base speed car without all the fancy shit. 😁
There are Speed UTVs for sale in the $30K range with little to very low miles. Problem with most that are trying to sell their spots is they have a shit ton of accessories that they want the buyer to pay for at cost.
 
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River Dirt 2

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The first car we ordered just came in, 884!
My son and wife have decided to sell this one and keep the 176 car. I like the 884 but I’m partial to the red 🙂
 
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River Dirt 2

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The teal one is your son's, yes?

So what colors did you end up with?

🤔
Yes, the teal one is my son and my wife’s car. She loves driving and riding in it. She wanted to have something she could drive easier. The Lothringer can be a handful and a bit intimating for her to drive.

In total we had orders for 3 cars, kept the 176 and sold the other 2.
 

rivermobster

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Yes, the teal one is my son and my wife’s car. She loves driving and riding in it. She wanted to have something she could drive easier. The Lothringer can be a handful and a bit intimating for her to drive.

In total we had orders for 3 cars, kept the 176 and sold the other 2.

Understood. 👍🏼
 

RiverDave

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I’m starting to think the girls just want to drive my speed car. lol



They’d probably enjoy it more if they went more than 10 mph. 🤪

RD
 

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Drove a Speed car this weekend in Havasu, a friend of mine needed some miles put on his car. He lives out of state and needed to have 250 miles on the car for its first service. I normally would never drive something I did not own, but I could not pass up driving one of these cars to get the low down on how they really are. We hit the trails heading to the hole in the rock, my wife was in the passenger seat and when we started hitting the whoop section at a fast click she was amazed on how the car sucked up the whoops and sat on top, she said we need to get one of these. I own a 2020 RZR XP4 Turbo for comparison which has been setup nice Overall I was very impressed with the car I had very few complaints for sure, the few I had were brakes were sub par but I could live with them over time, the steering wheel feedback was strange, but again could live with it not a deal breaker and the last thing is I would do is raise the seats up slightly to get a better view over the front end, going over crests were spooky if you did not have a lead car to watch their whips and Im 6ft. The car was amazing and I would not hesitate to buy one even with the"issues" they are having. Car was so confident and stable, the power was on point.
 

Wizard29

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Does Robby want to hire me as a proofreader? I'm seeing so many errors in those posts, it's not even funny.

"When you register you can let us know if someone in your group the birthday in March."

They having their posts manufactured in Vietnam too?

Yeah, yeah, grammar nazi and all that. I just happen to think a business that is posting stuff should be as correct and as professional as possible.
 

rivermobster

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So like...

What are the odds of more than 10 people showing up?

Or maybe I should say...

10 Speed Cars?

🤔
 

Bigbore500r

Well-Known Member
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Does Robby want to hire me as a proofreader? I'm seeing so many errors in those posts, it's not even funny.

"When you register you can let us know if someone in your group the birthday in March."

They having their posts manufactured in Vietnam too?

Yeah, yeah, grammar nazi and all that. I just happen to think a business that is posting stuff should be as correct and as professional as possible.

I think they left the sample text from whatever template they used :D

1742322964650.png


1742323000696.png
 

HullofaTime

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Does Robby want to hire me as a proofreader? I'm seeing so many errors in those posts, it's not even funny.

"When you register you can let us know if someone in your group the birthday in March."

They having their posts manufactured in Vietnam too?

Yeah, yeah, grammar nazi and all that. I just happen to think a business that is posting stuff should be as correct and as professional as possible.

They are always testing, so these things are made from the passenger seat while eating the whoops.
 
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