Speed cars hit the assembly Line

[LargeOrangeFont]

I just don't want to go back and forth with you. Thats all

Good. Thank you.

 

[Singleton]

Who cares if they did or not? I’m pretty sure these dealers are not putting deposits for their dealer orders, but I have no idea. Dealers have taken orders for cars, I don’t know what that figure is vs ordering cars for stock.

Like I said, Speed will sell every car they produce. Speed gets paid when a unit hits the dealer floor, not when the dealer sells it to a consumer.

As stated, it does not seem like these are going to be flooding the market this season.

Once again your making an assumption.
You do not know if dealers are setup as sell-in or sell-through!

After the economy crashed last time, flooring financing organizations dried up and most manufactures had to change the model on how dealer inventory is processed. Most have X days from delivery to pay the manufacture (either 30, 60, 90 days). Almost zero cars sitting on a lot are paid in full to the manufacture on delivery. That is why inventory turnover is critical at any dealership.

your $500M figure is based on everyone paying a deposit?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Well, you sure spend a lot of time defending it. Honest question, doesn't it get exhausting making excuses for someone else all the time? You seem to spend a lot of energy and time doing it.

I hope the cars get delivered soon so that we can put this issue to rest.

I’ve said many times, I don’t care when I get the car, other people do, I get it.

I’d like to get it soon, but if it takes another few months it takes another few months.

This is more for entertainment than anything, We are arguing crap on both sides that no one even knows or can provide an answer to in most cases. It is arguing just to argue.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Once again your making an assumption.
You do not know if dealers are setup as sell-in or sell-through!

After the economy crashed last time, flooring financing organizations dried up and most manufactures had to change the model on how dealer inventory is processed. Most have X days from delivery to pay the manufacture (either 30, 60, 90 days). Almost zero cars sitting on a lot are paid in full to the manufacture on delivery. That is why inventory turnover is critical at any dealership.

your $500M figure is based on everyone paying a deposit?

What part of this thread isn’t an assumption? We both have made many.

If you want to argue that powersports dealers want less inventory to sell and not more, go right ahead. They will absorb these cars as they come out and move them, just as they do with other brands.

The $500M is not my figure that is Speed’s figure.

Like I said, Speed will sell every car they make, just like Polaris sells every car they make. 16K cars is not a lot to an addressable market of ~60M people where there are already not enough SXS to go around. Yea that condition will change with the economy, but if the cars delivers on what was sold, it will be the best value on the market.

 

[BIGRED9158]

@LargeOrangeFont let me ask you this if Robby came out this week and said you will not have a car for at least a year are you still a buyer how long are you willing to wait for the product to be delivered before you yourself pull the plug

 

[Singleton]

What part of this thread isn’t an assumption? We both have made many.

If you want to argue that powersports dealers want less inventory to sell and not more, go right ahead. They will absorb these cars as they come out and move them, just as they do with other brands.

The $500M is not my figure that is Speed’s figure.

Like I said, Speed will sell every car they make, just like Polaris sells every car they make. 16K cars is not a lot to an addressable market of ~60M people where there are already not enough SXS to go around. Yea that condition will change with the economy, but if the cars delivers on what was sold, it will be the best value on the market.

The $500M pipeline figure is BS. Direct customer demand is apx 3k units. Those 3k units should be classified as forecast (scheduled to close). Calling it pipeline means it is not a committed sale. $500M in pipeline is a pipe dream, since the only thing that matters is forecast! The 12k in dealership units, is a combination of forecast (scheduled to close) and pipeline (opportunities in play, but unsure if commit will occur).

No dealer is going to absorb extra inventory until they know turn. Dealerships are not going to sit on inventory if they are sell-in (very few flooring companies for recreational vehicles these days and almost no dealer is paying on deliver these days). Sell-through, no risk to extra inventory, since they don’t pay manufacture until sale to customer occurs. Sell-through is still considered pipeline.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The $500M pipeline figure is BS. Direct customer demand is apx 3k units. Those 3k units should be classified as forecast (scheduled to close). Calling it pipeline means it is not a committed sale. $500M in pipeline is a pipe dream, since the only thing that matters is forecast! The 12k in dealership units, is a combination of forecast (scheduled to close) and pipeline (opportunities in play, but unsure if commit will occur).

No dealer is going to absorb extra inventory until they know turn. Dealerships are not going to sit on inventory if they are sell-in (very few flooring companies for recreational vehicles these days and almost no dealer is paying on deliver these days). Sell-through, no risk to extra inventory, since they don’t pay manufacture until sale to customer occurs. Sell-through is still considered pipeline.

Now it is you are making assumptions on how they classify their pipeline

You need to decide what side of the fence you are on.. are they going to make 100 units a month or 1200 a month in perpetuity . Production figures completely change everything you just said.

Neither figure changes the fact that every car they build will at some point convert to sale.

I don't think there will be enough of these coming out in the next 4-6 months to meet demand.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

@LargeOrangeFont let me ask you this if Robby came out this week and said you will not have a car for at least a year are you still a buyer how long are you willing to wait for the product to be delivered before you yourself pull the plug

In that scenario the MSRP keeps going up and my price stays the same, I'm in for however long it takes. I'm not missing anything, I still have a car.

 

[Lavey5150]

Just in -Speed demo model

 

[JayBreww]

Just in -Speed demo model
View attachment 1158055

That’s a gen 3 obviously….

 

[Laguna]

@Laguna what are your thoughts on Todd R. Yea believe he is in charge of ops over there

Don't know him personally or what his role is. They need a CEO to handle things. If they have the orders they claim they can easily justify the expense. And in the end that person will make more for the company then what's spent. RG seems to like the R&D side of things that's what he should focus on.

 

[Singleton]

Now it is you are making assumptions on how they classify their pipeline

You need to decide what side of the fence you are on.. are they going to make 100 units a month or 1200 a month in perpetuity . Production figures completely change everything you just said.

Neither figure changes the fact that every car they build will at some point convert to sale.

I don't think there will be enough of these coming out in the next 4-6 months to meet demand.

I have not made 1 assumption in this thread, besides saying all cars will be 2023 models or later .

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I have not made 1 assumption in this thread, besides saying all cars will be 2023 models or later .

Was it a guess or an assumption that there will be no new cars at SSSS, 2021 or 2022 ? Only one of those was in this thread though.

 

[Singleton]

Was it a guess or an assumption that there will be no new cars at SSSS, 2021 or 2022 ? Only one of those was in this thread though.

That was my opinion and I believe I said, no customer cars would be at the show.

My 60 minutes of cardio is almost done. Time to work, I will be back to debate later

 

[Laguna]

Who cares if they did or not? I’m pretty sure these dealers are not putting deposits for their dealer orders, but I have no idea. Dealers have taken orders for cars, I don’t know what that figure is vs ordering cars for stock.

Like I said, Speed will sell every car they produce. Speed gets paid when a unit hits the dealer floor, not when the dealer sells it to a consumer.

As stated, it does not seem like these are going to be flooding the market this season.

Once again your making an assumption.
You do not know if dealers are setup as sell-in or sell-through!

After the economy crashed last time, flooring financing organizations dried up and most manufactures had to change the model on how dealer inventory is processed. Most have X days from delivery to pay the manufacture (either 30, 60, 90 days). Almost zero cars sitting on a lot are paid in full to the manufacture on delivery. That is why inventory turnover is critical at any dealership.

your $500M figure is based on everyone paying a deposit?

I agree I know this is how Temecula Motosports worked with the manufacturers. And I saw the audits come out every few weeks scaning all the vehicles to make sure things were in line. Not saying Speed won't have dealers out the gate ok with paying up front. But long term they will have to floor vehicles.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

That was my opinion and I believe I said, no customer cars would be at the show.

My 60 minutes of cardio is almost done. Time to work, I will be back to debate later

Enjoyed having you!

 

[rivrrts429]

If it comes out before the end of the year, that’s 3 years. That is about 6 months longer than it took Textron to develop the WildcatXX it took Polaris longer than 2 years to do the new Pro R and Turbo R.

Both of those companies weren’t starting a new brand from scratch, nor were they building the cars 100% new from the ground up on their own.

3 years from concept to full company debuting an functional product is still damn fast.

The ProR was more like three years. It was long before Covid that Polaris was testing two of them in the boonies east of Havasu.

 

[DLC]

And for record you said

Get them to post right now

I would Not want my car at a show where everyone can push the buttons, sit and fart in My seats, open close the doors 1,000 times! Nope.

that’s not for me!

 

[RVR SWPR]

I agree 100% but I don't think he has hired the right people to take it where it should have been by now or where it ultimately could go.

For sure you are correct. Speed UTV definitely a one man show. RG no doubt in total control and unable to delegate.

 

[Havasu blue label]

Go to work guys

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The ProR was more like three years. It was long before Covid that Polaris was testing two of them in the boonies east of Havasu.

Agreed. That car took 3 years, and they only needed to design 2/3 of a car and not start and entire brand and business.

 

[702sandman]

The ProR was more like three years. It was long before Covid that Polaris was testing two of them in the boonies east of Havasu.

The major difference here was Polaris did not take a cent from a customer for a “deposit” and they also did not say hey here’s a new car we built and it will be out on such and such date. Two differences on how both companies are doing things.

 

[702sandman]

Agreed. That car took 3 years, and they only needed to design 2/3 of a car and not start and entire brand and business.

It was dang near 100% new design, including the motor. It’s not the same motor in the sling shot things were changed.

 

[DLC]

Doesn’t carb have a little bit more pull than just California? Hence all new vehicles have to be 50 state legal which CARB drives correct?

That I don’t know, I would think that any manufacture would make a 50 state legal product.

i would also think that I would do EPA approval prior to Carb approval

 

[DLC]

Over-under on LOF posts in this thread today is about 22

Lol

What only 22! This thread needs to get to 100 pages, we need more like 30-35….

 

[EmpirE231]

hard to weed through the back and forth here, but have any cars been delivered to customers yet?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

It was dang near 100% new design, including the motor. It’s not the same motor in the sling shot things were changed.

Interior is mostly the same, engine architecture is the same as the slingshot. A GM V8 truck engine and Corvette engine are same architecture.. A lot less work than a new engine from scratch.

Agreed that most everything else is new. And that took Polaris 3 years right?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

hard to weed through the back and forth here, but have any cars been delivered to customers yet?

No. Customers have paid or obtained financing, and Speed said payment will be when cars are 1 month out.

 

[EmpirE231]

No. Customers have paid or obtained financing, and Speed said payment will be when cars are 1 month out.

Gotcha... I thought I remembered reading cars will start being delivered a week after the sancho.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Gotcha... I thought I remembered reading cars will start being delivered a week after the sancho.

Problem is/was EPA and CARB rubber stamps.

 

[Bigbore500r]

They better hurry......

 

[JayBreww]

Gotcha... I thought I remembered reading cars will start being delivered a week after the sancho.

You did.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

For sure you are correct. Speed UTV definitely a one man show. RG no doubt in total control and unable to delegate.

Something this big can't be successful with a handful of people. I would love to peel back the curtain and see what his team looks like. Even if he had 100% outsourced production, he would need some competent people. My guess is that Hisun owns a lot more of this than advertised. That is not a dig on RG, I would still consider that success dependent on License agreements. Visionaries don't like sustaining and maintaining work traditionally, so that seems a win-win. Love RG or Hate him the guy is like a bull to a red cape. When he wants something he chases it with everything he has. If you don't admire that you are not a capitalist.

There is a Harvard Business Case study here IMHO.

 

[RVR SWPR]

What these threads need right now is RG himself posting response. There should be no question RG reads RDP.
Speed definitely RG creation,whatever the details of RG / Hisun Motors might be seems incredible he able to put it all together & do business with them. Not many of us could pull it off. Right now if RG were to become incapacitated in any way Speed UTV would be done. RDP membership full of Type “A” self made people. I cannot understand all the negative towards RG efforts. Check out this guys videos competing,he does not lift.

 

[rivrrts429]

The major difference here was Polaris did not take a cent from a customer for a “deposit” and they also did not say hey here’s a new car we built and it will be out on such and such date. Two differences on how both companies are doing things.

I don’t have a speed car on order and I’ve got no skin in this deal which is why I rarely post in this thread. I was just sharing my experience seeing the ProR model being tested after it was discussed how long it was in development.

 

[Blackmagic94]

Dealers don’t put deposits on cars. They have a flooring company to make a payment too after typically 90-180 days of it being on the lot then they get a balloon payment to pay off to the flooring company. This is why dealers make deals on “over-agers” I doubt the flooring company puts a deposit on the inventory as well. All this stuff is done just like a street dealer to a distributor

 

[RiverDave]

Lots of good points made and they’re along the same lines and questions others in these threads have made.

Waiting for you to be called haters for making strategic points and asking great questions.

All of this goes to a couple key questions: when will the cars actually be able to be delivered and will they do as well in the dirt as the investors hope?

Im Pretty sure I gave the answers on my first car, but I don’t think anyone listens because they are too busy arguing with LOF

 

[RiverDave]

Dealers don’t put deposits on cars. They have a flooring company to make a payment too after typically 90-180 days of it being on the lot then they get a balloon payment to pay off to the flooring company. This is why dealers make deals on “over-agers” I doubt the flooring company puts a deposit on the inventory as well. All this stuff is done just like a street dealer to a distributor

That’s the typical biz model.. I’d wager in this case the dealers put the deposits for the same reason I did.. it was cheap to do so.

 

[JDKRXW]

hard to weed through the back and forth here, but have any cars been delivered to customers yet?

You win this thread today

 

[OCMerrill]

Just in -Speed demo model
View attachment 1158055

What just a dam minute....I've been looking for something to match my 70's bell moto 4. With that I can film "On any Sunday 1 1/2"

 

[OCMerrill]

I still need to get out on a run with the RDP crew, the stars have never aligned on scheduling

I would imagine constantly stopping to pee.

 

[Backlash]

Im Pretty sure I gave the answers on my first car, but I don’t think anyone listens because they are too busy arguing with LOF

He's too busy arguing with everyone else about everything else. Half the reason people don't post up in the thread anymore. Now, most of us just check in once in awhile to see who he's arguing with and what they're arguing about.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

He's too busy arguing with everyone else about everything else. Half the reason people don't post up in the thread anymore. Now, most of us just check in once in awhile to see who he's arguing with and what they're arguing about.

You are catching on. We are breaking them down one by one.

We are actually getting more information from other people now that it’s not a constant cry fest.

 

[WhatExit?]

I don’t think anyone listens because LOF is too busy arguing with everyone, calling them names and trying to win instead of discussing a startup companies promises

Fixed it for ya

I’m curious if anybody is reading the news about Trevor Milton’s trial. He’s the former CEO at Nikola Motor, another start up company some of you may have heard of

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I would imagine constantly stopping to pee.

We would issue him a catheter. The rental sign up sheet is right next to the trailer rental sign up sheet.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Fixed it for ya

I’m curious if anybody is reading the news about Trevor Milton’s trial. He’s the former CEO at Nikola Motor, another start up company some of you may have heard of

Pot meet the the crying kettle.

What does Nikola have to do with Speed?

 

[Deckin Around]

opinions please

I can change models on an existing order if I want and I'm thinking about it. Note: I really don't want the color orange on my car.
On this order the buy in price compared to current prices is -2500 Base model, -4500 LE model and -3500 RG model

Common sense says for Re-sale I should buy the LE as it is the biggest discount but what do you guys think has the best potential for upside? I think most people buying second-hand that don't have to have the RG will jump on a lower price more than picky about price vs options. I'm thinking about just buying the base model, adding the roof and doing a custom/color wrap like the blue car.

If I keep the car, Window nets and Radio are a must $4100 in extras
If I upgrade the LE with nets and a radio, it's cheaper (3500) just to get the RG model so that is a no brainer except for the orange part

 

[WhatExit?]

Pot meet the the crying kettle.

What does Nikola have to do with Speed?

You clearly don’t know as much as you should. Google “Trevor Milton trial” and learn something that just might be relevant (I’m sure you’re hoping it’s not)

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

opinions please

I can change models on an existing order if I want and I'm thinking about it. Note: I really don't want the color orange on my car.
On this order the buy in price compared to current prices is -2500 Base model, -4500 LE model and -3500 RG model

Common sense says for Re-sale I should buy the LE as it is the biggest discount but what do you guys think has the best potential for upside? I think most people buying second-hand that don't have to have the RG will jump on a lower price more than picky about price vs options. I'm thinking about just buying the base model, adding the roof and doing a custom/color wrap like the blue car.

If I keep the car, Window nets and Radio are a must $4100 in extras
If I upgrade the LE with nets and a radio, it's cheaper (3500) just to get the RG model so that is a no brainer except for the orange part

I think you are spot on with regards to the LE. The roof is expensive and you are stuck buying it. I have not seen anything in regards to the plastic seats in the Base car, and the Base will have lower end shocks depending on your master number. Also no bead lock wheels if you care about that. I don’t want the car any wider so the OE beadlocks I’m happy with. About any aftermarket wheel out there will make the car wider.

The Speed comms setup in the RG isn’t really a deal on price, it is just plug and play. But does represent a good value with the window nets for the $3500. I did t want the RG because of the alcantara seats and steering wheel.

If you can get your base car with the good shocks because of your master number, you might be on to something with keeping the base car and doing your own wrap.

I think the LE has the most upside because of the semi custom wraps.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

You clearly don’t know as much as you should. Google “Trevor Milton trial” and learn something that just might be relevant (I’m sure you’re hoping it’s not)

I’ve been following.

Again, it has nothing to do with Speed as Speed is not a public company, or was RG attempting to buy a ranch with Speed cars?