Sank my boat yesterday

[gqchris]

This is why i sold my 25’ and downsized. I gave up weekend boating and will only do north of Pirates or lower river on weekdays.

When the river from Havasu became the 405 freeway two years ago, that was it for me. The stupidity of everyone rushing to Pirates. Rushing to park. I don’t understand it.

 

[RCDave]

Same here.

 

[sailtexas186548]

Lake boaters.... lol

I’m sorry you lost your boat but a 23’ boat, sinking from a wake... because it “launched the boat in the air” - sounds like operator error to me.

I run my 15’ checkmate in galveston bay in decent chop and handle 50+ foot sport fishing boat wakes without issue, regularly. In fact, I rip up our local creek that’s only 150’ wide or less passing wake surfing boats as well.

 

[Socalx09]

The area this happened in isn't in the main area of the lake and nor is it wide. It is narrow and doesn't allow much room to avoid bad wakes with the sandbars, traffic, etc and he stated he was avoiding a stationary boat. I wouldn't call it a operator error...

Lake boaters.... lol

I’m sorry you lost your boat but a 23’ boat, sinking from a wake... because it “launched the boat in the air” - sounds like operator error to me.

I run my 15’ checkmate in galveston bay in decent chop and handle 50+ foot sport fishing boat wakes without issue, regularly. In fact, I rip up our local creek that’s only 150’ wide or less passing wake surfing boats as well.

 

[RodnJen]

Sorry to hear about your boat but glad everyone is safe. This is a tough one. The guy my be a complete tool, maybe not, but he was just boating.

I agree with Lynch on this one (and that doesn't happen very often), this is nothing new on Havi and Parker. When v-drives became all the rage in the seventies, the outboard guys were up in arms. We had to reinforce our dock at the Sportsman and start using heavier dock lines. They messed up the water compared to most boats that were for watersports.

Unless you outlaw a particular type or a particular size, its not likely to change. If the agencies want to patrol the waterways with that purpose in mind, it will surely lead to expensive litigation and likely more regulation.

 

[RodnJen]

The area this happened in isn't in the main area of the lake and nor is it wide. It is narrow and doesn't allow much room to avoid bad wakes with the sandbars, traffic, etc and he stated he was avoiding a stationary boat. I wouldn't call it a operator error...

You only go as fast as the conditions allow.

 

[Socalx09]

Agree 100% I stated it above in an earlier post about all boats needing to be responsible for their wake. We wait to safely pass all the time and slow down if we can't pass. While others blast past us making unsafe passes. I was only mentioning the location of that area not being wide open like in the main part of the lake.

You only go as fast as the conditions allow.

 

[riverroyal]

R

Lake boaters.... lol

I’m sorry you lost your boat but a 23’ boat, sinking from a wake... because it “launched the boat in the air” - sounds like operator error to me.

I run my 15’ checkmate in galveston bay in decent chop and handle 50+ foot sport fishing boat wakes without issue, regularly. In fact, I rip up our local creek that’s only 150’ wide or less passing wake surfing boats as well.

Impressive. Ha

 

[02HoWaRd26]

Man that’s so sad and scary feel horrible for the loss but as said at least your family was safe.

It’s so sad I’ve been watching these idiots closer and closer on the river and i swear they do some of this solely to be dicks. Was a guy last Sunday dead center of the river putting off ocean waves so i literally just came off plane went to far edge of river and waited the storm. As the guy went by unnoticed there was no one even surfing behind his boat and everyone on the boat pointing and laughing at those of us other boats.

 

[Mariner777]

Wow! Had no clue? Glad your all ok. I call it the one A hole rule it only take one A hole to screw things up for everyone else.
Piece

 

[2Driver]

I have said over and over it is a lack of etiquette and courtesy.

Pretty much sums it up.

 

[Taboma]

And I did. Maybe too slow. The bow took a nose dive after the first swell so maybe more speed would have gotten me across although it may have done damage to the hull instead. It's very narrow right there and path of travel is tricky as the water is shallow in some areas. She was standing straight up under the water with 3 to 4 feet of water over the bow so it must have been 25 to 27 feet deep.

I don't think there's any universal approach or speed. So many variables, sometimes faster works, sometimes slower, sometimes kicking into neutral and bobbing over. Height, how steep, wave spacing and the angle are the variables you mind races to calculate.
If there's room then turning away so the height is diminished by the time you are forced to turn back and cross it often helps

When navigating in a steep following sea, like the videos you see of those channel entrances, you're trying to modulate your speed to stay on top of the wave under you, thereby maintaining a bow up attitude. If you go to slow the wave behind catches you and you end up nose down eating green water, if you go to fast you end up in the same situation.

But going head into them is entirely different, yet if you can you want to keep your bow elevated and don't allow it to drop. Meaning as you come down the back side of the first wave (Which usually isn't the one that gets you), often accelerating into a plow will cause the bow to remain elevated when it hits the second wave (The one that can certainly get you). Sure you'll take a stiff hit, but it's often better then stuffing the wave.
The problem with that method is --- if you don't do it just right, or some other variable wasn't accounted for, your can really stuff that prick.
The other method of chopping the throttle might get your feet wet, but allowing the boats natural buoyancy to work, you won't be driving the boat through the wave or stuffing it hard.

The very best teacher is practice, discovering how your boat reacts to different conditions and throttle input. Start small

 

[Ultra912]

Sorry to hear about your boat sinking. It’s a boat it can be replaced, your family is the important part. Happy you made it through the ordeal okay.


Devils advocate here.....

A persons wake is their responsibility, if you’re floating and the wake sinks your boat that is one thing. If you don’t have a big enough boat or skill set to cross the wake safely that isn’t their fault. You can’t run into a parked car in the mall parking lot and say “you shouldn’t have parked there”. If you make the choice to cross the wake you’ve committed to something that can have very devastating results. Like what happen yesterday.

These people work hard just like the rest of us, they see a different way of enjoying the lake. It’s unfortunate that it involves us as performance boaters because we have to run over their wakes, but they are not trying to sink your boat, rather show their friends and family a good time. Time they probably worked damn hard to afford. In this example if the Ultra deck operator was inconvenienced by slowing down and waiting for a better place to pass the boat would still be a float or undamaged. Instead the Ultra owner chose to go for it, it didn’t end well. He drove over the back of a wave, it drive over him.

We don’t need me more rules or laws telling us how to enjoy or pleasure time, we need to be more diligent in our own actions.

I don't want more rules either but warnings do make sense since the danger is real
Couple of things;
I did lay back with patience until we passed the stationary pontoon boat and wave runners
I did stay about 50 feet behind the ballast and navigate towards the wake with as much angle as I could (Not head on)
I did power up to cross over and I did lay off the throttle after getting on top of the wake,,,I didn't realize it was that tall until I was on top of it
I don't believe the other boat should be liable but at the same time they should've stopped and helped us out of the water and should not have been driving with ballast full at 15 MPH on the entrance of the river where I usually run about 40-50 mph,,,as most of us do
I bought my first boat, and I restored and still own it, in 1989. I bought the Ultra new in 2007. I consider myself to be a 9 out of 10 operator
I have been on Havasu from the beginning
The Ultra Shadow Deck is low to the water on the bow in comparison to the big cats and I believe a v-hull would've survived.
When I'm turning around to retrieve skiers I was always cautious because I've had small swells roll over the bow many times when coming up to the skier but nothing like what happened yesterday. I'm no beginner. IMHO the water tanks should be off-limits in the gorge with water in the ballast and/or anywhere their wakes are gonna do damage. It's that simple in my opinion. If they're on the lake, I go around, but on the river there's no other option sometimes in traffic

 

[Ouderkirk]

What is it that is going to be banned.
Boats with Ballast tanks
Boats that have 14 people loading up one side (Not Exceeding the maximum Weight Displayed)
Boats that have 5 People and bags filled with Lead

Now I like the Rope Dropping regulation.. That will be interesting

I would think that the ballast tank boats will be restricted in some measure in places where the property owners get fed up with them and start to pressure the elected officials.

Your point is valid, those who demand "action" rarely think about how to enforce their demands, and the methods used.

 

[67 baron sprint LD 390 FE]

Here's what's going to happen IMO, it's just like anything else there is a percentage of people that are just idiots and ruin for everyone else, like the 3 wheelers, they are fine until you get a jack ass riding one , then they get hurt and end up suing Honda. The issue you is the same with these boats, someone is going to get hurt or killed , and if they get the right lawyer they will sue, it's a matter of time . If you own one of these boats you need to realize what damage can be caused because of your wake. It seems like there are a lot wake related issues with these boats. I don't know what the right answer is , just stay safe and try and watch out for their wakes.

 

[SmilesPerGallon]

How can you be so sure the ballast tanks were full?

 

[Doug Derry]

This is very very slippery slope.. I’d hate to look at the river one day and say “remember when we used to be able to boat on that?”

How big is to big? Who decides that?

Both the tree huggers and the wakeboard boat mfg’s have more money to throw at this then our niche group.

To put that into perspective there are some wakeboard co pansies putting out as many boats in a month then all of the performance boat industry combined

Big wakes aren't much of a concern when they are focused more on vessel registration numbers being located correctly and other easy pickings. I've seen the DCB's and other well designed boats putting out a wake a duck easily handles. Yet we can see these W***B**** clowns continue to cut back and forth creating horrendous wakes in front of the beaches we and so many others are set up at. Sheer stupidity and careless, disrespectful attitudes.

 

[Ultra912]

How can you be so sure the ballast tanks were full?

15 mph sitting low enough in the water to create a wake that large is a no brainer

 

[Andy01]

I don't want more rules either but warnings do make sense since the danger is real
Couple of things;
I did lay back with patience until we passed the stationary pontoon boat and wave runners
I did stay about 50 feet behind the ballast and navigate towards the wake with as much angle as I could (Not head on)
I did power up to cross over and I did lay off the throttle after getting on top of the wake,,,I didn't realize it was that tall until I was on top of it
I don't believe the other boat should be liable but at the same time they should've stopped and helped us out of the water and should not have been driving with ballast full at 15 MPH on the entrance of the river where I usually run about 40-50 mph,,,as most of us do
I bought my first boat, and I restored and still own it, in 1989. I bought the Ultra new in 2007. I consider myself to be a 9 out of 10 operator
I have been on Havasu from the beginning
The Ultra Shadow Deck is low to the water on the bow in comparison to the big cats and I believe a v-hull would've survived.
When I'm turning around to retrieve skiers I was always cautious because I've had small swells roll over the bow many times when coming up to the skier but nothing like what happened yesterday. I'm no beginner. IMHO the water tanks should be off-limits in the gorge with water in the ballast and/or anywhere their wakes are gonna do damage. It's that simple in my opinion. If they're on the lake, I go around, but on the river there's no other option sometimes in traffic

So you chopped the throttle and stuffed the bow.
You wanting or any other speedy guy wanting to go 40-50 in the gorge, mouth of the river or any other area is not surf guys concern, nor should it be. Speedy guy has a decision to make. Hold and wait, or pass and take the risk. You waited till you passed the pontoon, smart and safe move. You then got impatient and passed where the conditions were not ideal for you and your skill set. The accident happen. Chopping the throttle on the top was a huge mistake. Also being that far back put more distance in the wakes allowing the room it took for your boat to fall in between them.
I hope you have great insurance and you get paid properly. I also hope others can see that this does happen. It’s another obstacle to having a good time. Over come it and move on. There’s been boats putting out big waves for years, there’s just more now.

 

[Ultra912]

I'll accept all the comments and opinions, even those that want to push driver error. 40-50 entering is commonplace though and that's not what I was doing because of what was ahead of me stationary. I've never needed to get as close as I was because in the lake I steer clear but the narrow river is different. I agree the swell spacing. It happens to boaters with experience just as well as the dumb shits,,,,,,just not nearly as common.

 

[Ultra912]

I'll accept all the comments and opinions, even those that want to push driver error. 40-50 entering is commonplace though and that's not what I was doing because of what was ahead of me stationary. I've never needed to get as close as I was because in the lake I steer clear but the narrow river is different. I agree the swell spacing. It happens to boaters with experience just as well as the dumb shits,,,,,,just not a common.

 

[lbhsbz]

I've had several posts in this thread, but one thing that I failed to mention...is that while a wake is a by-product of a moving boat...up until the wakeboard craze started....no boat designers set out to make an effort to make their little boat produce the biggest wake possible, and of a shape that makes it easier to launch (whatever is crossing it) higher. The day cruisers that showed up at the river to piss of the flat bottom guys were not designed around the size and shape of their wake. Wake board and wake surf boats are designed with one primary objective....to have the largest, sharpest, most destructive wake possible. All other aspects of the boat come secondary...this is where the problem lies and this is where the manufacturers will assume some significant liability I think.

 

[riverroyal]

So after watching this thread a bit I was hoping it wasn’t this ultra owner. I know the guy from years at black meadow and other lake run ins. By no means is he a ‘novice’ operator. The guy know his boat and it’s capabilities. This was not driver error. The flaming torch mob can stop, this ultra owner knows the lake, river and his boat.
Sorry for this nightmare, glad you and family is ok.

 

[WhatExit?]

To the OP, I'm sorry to hear about your boat. I'm sure you must've been freaked out as you and your family went into the water like that. Certainly unexpected and dangerous. While you're all OK, the issue is it could've been much worse. I'm glad you're all unhurt.

This isn't a solution but perhaps boaters should start using dashcams or GoPro type cameras to record what's going on around the boat. At least there'd be a record of who did what when

 

[Wicky]

Fuck Wakeboard boats

 

[Backlash]

Is it possible that both drivers are to blame here?

It takes two to tango.

 

[lbhsbz]

I'll accept all the comments and opinions, even those that want to push driver error. 40-50 entering is commonplace though and that's not what I was doing because of what was ahead of me stationary. I've never needed to get as close as I was because in the lake I steer clear but the narrow river is different. I agree the swell spacing. It happens to boaters with experience just as well as the dumb shits,,,,,,just not a common.

This was a case of driver error...in the sense that it could have been prevented by slowing and following until the river opened up. You may have lost a prop or a drive hitting bottom while coming off plane in the shallow areas, but you wouldn't have lost the boat.

There is no question that you shouldn't have needed to anticipate that level of wake up ahead, but legally speaking, you approached the existing conditions at a speed and in a manner that resulted in the outcome.

Would I have done the same thing you did?...very likely, yes. I've been pitched out before, which is why I put my jacket on almost always any more. IDGAF if I look like a dork...at least I'll be a floating dork. Even the most experienced captains run into situations that cost them their boat / ship. It happens. As I posted earlier, you can't be expected to anticipate something that shouldn't be there, but to be 100% safe, you have to, which means idling around the lake...which isn't gonna happen. Every time any of us put a boat in the water, we take chances...regardless of how careful we are. Most times things work out the way they should, sometimes they don't. That's why I have a cheap boat, and that's why you have insurance on your nice boat.

I can guarantee you one thing...and that is that you, and everyone that has read this thread, will learn something that will result in better split seconds decisions when presented with a situation like you found yourself in...and for that, we thank you for sharing what happened.

Could it have been prevented?, yes. Was it your fault?...not quite.

Get the boat fixed, get back out there and have a good time with your family. It might happen again, but it probably won't.

 

[was thatguy]

Man, I feel for you. Glad everyone is ok.
My little miller would have been gone instantly. We ALMOST lost it way up an arm on Shasta one year. Buried the bow but somehow drove out of it.
Dickweek plowing waves in an area not 100’ wide with lots of traffic.

As far as shutting down the wake tanks, it won’t be personal property damage that finally does it, it will be erosion, imo.

 

[HST4ME]

It's hard to surf after a baseball bat to the knees too, just sayin'.

 

[KENDOG689]

Is it me or do others really think there is a solution to this?Cops,dash cams.....?These boats are in there infancy.

 

[was thatguy]

Is it me or do others really think there is a solution to this?Cops,dash cams.....?These boats are in there infancy.

Yes.
Those pesky environmentalists can shut them down faster than any other entity.
Of course, there could be collateral damage.

 

[FlyByWire]

Edit: you don’t even look cool wake surfing, it’s not graceful, it’s slow, any fat kid could do it, learn to ski or wakeboard.

This is what I think every time I see a video of a wake surfer getting tossed / drinking a beer. Really? You need a 150 thousand dollar boat, for THIS??!

 

[KENDOG689]

Yes.
Those pesky environmentalists can shut them down faster than any other entity.
Of course, there could be collateral damage.

Less government.Respect on the water would be good.

 

[warlock250]

They should just Ban them. They always tow right by our beach camps up on Powell when they have all kinds of places to go play. Never fails. They suck.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Waffles]

So after watching this thread a bit I was hoping it wasn’t this ultra owner. I know the guy from years at black meadow and other lake run ins. By no means is he a ‘novice’ operator. The guy know his boat and it’s capabilities. This was not driver error. The flaming torch mob can stop, this ultra owner knows the lake, river and his boat.
Sorry for this nightmare, glad you and family is ok.

What kind of reply is that?
How many "experienced" operators have lost their lives in the last couple of years because they thought they knew the lake and their boat?
Even pros make mistakes.

Sent from my FRD-L14 using Tapatalk

 

[94essex]

As for those saying ban or outlaw these wake boats, my first thought goes to ban this ar-15 "who even needs that many rounds for this gun". Its a slippery slope with asking for more regulation and banning/outlawing a certain boat. Once you give a little youll never get it back. Starting banning wake boats then soon its speed limits. Best solution is just people be aware and use better etiquette. Which isnt an easy thing to enforce.

 

[Bigbore500r]

Is it me or do others really think there is a solution to this?Cops,dash cams.....?These boats are in there infancy.

Going down that path is bad for everyone. Wake boats chew up the water, but so does a big V bottom, and so does the dream catcher boat, etc etc. Pushing to enforce rules on certain boats and create rules to control conditions is what will kill the boating scene for all. It sucks that a wakeboard boat created a huge roller, but the decision to pass that boat and go faster in a relatively narrow part of the river is at the discretion of the operator. We know ultimately, we should not pass if conditions are not safe to do so, and regardless of the wake the other boat was creating, he had the right of way. The wake boat could have been a Formula cruiser rolling at 25mph, or a large Donzi, or a houseboat creating a sizable wake. I know the wake boats create some gnarly rollers, and it does suck, but it's a condition to deal with out there on the water, if we are to retain our freedoms.

 

[Bigbore500r]

As for those saying ban or outlaw these wake boats, my first thought goes to ban this ar-15 "who even needs that many rounds for this gun". Its a slippery slope with asking for more regulation and banning/outlawing a certain boat. Once you give a little youll never get it back. Starting banning wake boats then soon its speed limits. Best solution is just people be aware and use better etiquette. Which isnt an easy thing to enforce.

Y E S

 

[KENDOG689]

The London jets put off some good wakes also.

 

[stephenkatsea]

Sorry to hear about your boat sinking. It’s a boat it can be replaced, your family is the important part. Happy you made it through the ordeal okay.


Devils advocate here.....

A persons wake is their responsibility, if you’re floating and the wake sinks your boat that is one thing. If you don’t have a big enough boat or skill set to cross the wake safely that isn’t their fault. You can’t run into a parked car in the mall parking lot and say “you shouldn’t have parked there”. If you make the choice to cross the wake you’ve committed to something that can have very devastating results. Like what happen yesterday.

These people work hard just like the rest of us, they see a different way of enjoying the lake. It’s unfortunate that it involves us as performance boaters because we have to run over their wakes, but they are not trying to sink your boat, rather show their friends and family a good time. Time they probably worked damn hard to afford. In this example if the Ultra deck operator was inconvenienced by slowing down and waiting for a better place to pass the boat would still be a float or undamaged. Instead the Ultra owner chose to go for it, it didn’t end well. He drove over the back of a wave, it drive over him.

We don’t need me more rules or laws telling us how to enjoy or pleasure time, we need to be more diligent in our own actions.

The law is already there. You are responsible for your wake. Period. I wonder how many LEOs are aware of that law. They sure don't enforce it. Throwing a large wake in a tight area of general boat traffic is creating a hazard to navigation. Totally illegal. Now you're going to ask, "What is a Large Wake". So it's a gray area? That would be determined by the LEO enforcing the law and any/all witnesses. Taking a photo/video of the boat and the wake would be helpful. Again, the law is there, on the books, nothing new. But, not enforced.

 

[RCDave]

One of my biggest pet peeves regardless of boat type is: Either idle or get up on plane. Plowing is stupid

 

[Racey]

Just checking in from Mead here, how's everything in Havasu?!

 

[ArizonaKevin]

The law is already there. You are responsible for your wake. Period. I wonder how many LEOs are aware of that law. They sure don't enforce it. Throwing a large wake in a tight area of general boat traffic is creating a hazard to navigation. Totally illegal. Now you're going to ask, "What is a Large Wake". So it's a gray area? That would be determined by the LEO enforcing the law and any/all witnesses. Taking a photo/video of the boat and the wake would be helpful. Again, the law is there, on the books, nothing new. But, not enforced.

I think the issue that most of us are running into is, lets say I am running up river in my pop's 23ft chaparral deck. It throws a decent sized wake that has the potential to attract lake lice. If one of them decides he wants to jump my wake and wads his shit up, am I responsible because it was my wake?

 

[mesquito_creek]

I started with a 16 foot outboard, moved up to a 21 foot tourney skier, moved to a 26 foot V hull .... Now I am at a 30 foot 12,000 lbs closed bow cruiser.... When will it end???

The close spaced and sharp peak wake surfing wakes will smash around a 30 foot cruiser enough to pitch a passenger out of the seat if you are not perfect in your crossing...

 

[Jonas Grumby]

I don’t like rollbar boats, but I don’t want them band. Because next they will come after me for going 100, because we all know the libs will attribute large waves to speed. And a Daytona at 100 nearly makes a tsumami, ask any tree hugger.

 

[Ultra912]

Wow, almost 200 posts. I really do appreciate everyones take on the incident. I can tell you;
Hope my 496 mag survived because that will dictate a total loss or not
I won't do that again
Lots of years and memories with all my kids growing up on her will be hard to swallow
Update is
no hull damage. Upholstery, carpet, electronics are gone and if the motoe survived I'll be back on the water next year.
Looks like I'll be in my 19' 200 ob the rest of the season but I think I'll be launching on the river, Moabi, since crossing the lake on her will be a challenge. Thanks to all

 

[stephenkatsea]

Since the area is a "no ski/no wake board area", why in the hell would the operator be traveling there with full ballasts to create a maximum wake. Further, leaving the scene of this accident would likely be a legal problem for the wake boat operator.

 

[stephenkatsea]

I think the issue that most of us are running into is, lets say I am running up river in my pop's 23ft chaparral deck. It throws a decent sized wake that has the potential to attract lake lice. If one of them decides he wants to jump my wake and wads his shit up, am I responsible because it was my wake?

Wake jumping is already illegal within certain distances. It is illegal for a PWC to go airborne jumping a wake, while within 100 feet of the other vessel. No Wake Jumping at all within 150 feet of the other vessel.

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Just checking in from Mead here, how's everything in Havasu?!

Oh like you ever have time to get out on a boat anymore. You're not fooling anyone! Lol!

The law is already there. You are responsible for your wake. Period. I wonder how many LEOs are aware of that law. They sure don't enforce it. Throwing a large wake in a tight area of general boat traffic is creating a hazard to navigation. Totally illegal. Now you're going to ask, "What is a Large Wake". So it's a gray area? That would be determined by the LEO enforcing the law and any/all witnesses. Taking a photo/video of the boat and the wake would be helpful. Again, the law is there, on the books, nothing new. But, not enforced.

This is exactly what I'm thinking too. No new rules or laws are needed. Just enforce the others that are already there as written.

Sent from my LM-G710VM using Tapatalk

 

[ibdagimp]

Had something similar happen to me when I was out last year. Same spot too. Right past the "no skiers" pylon. Boat with the bow 10 feel up loaded ballast and one guy struggling on a board. Luckily I saw the wake and had room to adjust and get the bow up to take the hit. Even though I did that I still came out of the water and almost lost my woman and the dog. Happy to hear no one was hurt. Boats are repairable and replaceable. People can't be replaced.