Sand Rail vs. SxS

[Joe mama]

Sand Rail vs. SxS,,,,,,
get the SxS,,,when they finally close glamis because of all the assholes out there, you have something you can still use

100%%%correct!

 

[DaveC]

I hope you guys aren't comparing the performance of the older SxS's to the new SxS's? There is a big difference

I have a Rhino and an XP and they are totally different. Plus you don't have to dump a shit ton of money on the new ones, unless you wanted to of course.

someone could get the new XP1K and have a very capable machine that is so much better than the older machines.

I don't live near dunes so I like the dual sport nature of the SxS's for trails and such. I'm sure if I lived in the south my opinion would be different.

BTW my 64 inch XP fits on a 50 inch trail . Just don't ask me to post picture :eek

 

[rivermobster]

I find myself gravitating towards the sxs market.. That being said in 75 my old man bout a vs powered rail from a trapper for 3/4k.. That thing ran every trail in Parker and all we did was change the oil in it for decades.. In 2012 we sold it for 4k.

In 2010 I bought a teryx for 12k.. Had around another 12-15 into it in upgrades etc.. Sold it in 2013 for 12k after 3 motors..

I'm not seeing the low maintenance sxs program.. Compared to a cruiser old school rail.

For the sand only rail all day long.. For desert and occasional sand I would think a sxs hands down.

http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?showtopic=293518

Wouldn't be the fastest car out there, but the fun factor (for the price) would be absolutely outstanding. :thumbsup

 

[rivermobster]

OBO means 25k cash might take it...

No way you can go wrong with this. Absolutely bad azz ride!!!

http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?showtopic=295749

 

[Wicky]

OBO means 25k cash might take it...

No way you can go wrong with this. Absolutely bad azz ride!!!

http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?showtopic=295749

View attachment 301648

Sweet deals out there....that car would flat out crush the sand lice SxSs. 8)

 

[rivermobster]

Sweet deals out there....that car would flat out crush the sand lice SxSs. 8)

If that thing would fit in my toyhauler, id be selling all my quads (and a few other things) tomorrow.

I liked your analogy of comparing a SeaDo to a boat. That is the truth right there. :thumbsup

 

[Cole Trickle]

OBO means 25k cash might take it...

No way you can go wrong with this. Absolutely bad azz ride!!!

http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?showtopic=295749

View attachment 301648

I know funcos dune great but damm there ugly

Nothing about that car screams easy maintenance. Yeah you might score it for 25k but you better have 5-10k in cash lying around when you run into CV,motor or tranny issues.

 

[Racey]

I know funcos dune great but damm there ugly

Nothing about that car screams easy maintenance. Yeah you might score it for 25k but you better have 5-10k in cash lying around when you run into CV,motor or tranny issues.

Exactly, if you are on a "budget" for one, you either better a)Know how to work on them, and have lots of tools and skill. b) have deep pockets.

Even if you have tools and knowledge there are still certain things that are expensive on them that you are going to have to buy anyway, Most of it is between the flywheel and tire tread.

It's not a poor man's sport. If you buy a 25k car thinking you are all dialed and it's care free from there, you're gonna have a bad time

 

[rivermobster]

I know funcos dune great but damm there ugly

Nothing about that car screams easy maintenance. Yeah you might score it for 25k but you better have 5-10k in cash lying around when you run into CV,motor or tranny issues.

LoL. They are funky looking, but you know as well as I do, that's prolly the best built car out there. Might be the best handling too.

Any car is gonna cost you if you break something.

Maintenance will be minimal.

Gotta know how to drive in the sand.

 

[Cole Trickle]

LoL. They are funky looking, but you know as well as I do, that's prolly the best built car out there. Might be the best handling too.

Any car is gonna cost you if you break something.

Maintenance will be minimal.

Gotta know how to drive in the sand.

No doubt funco makes a great car. There is a board member that has a gorgeous Whipple powered gen 4 or 5 minus the low cut doors...bad machine

You are still buying someone else's problem with a 9 y/o car. I have been around too many big cars that were not beat on that had CV and tranny probes after a couple years.

 

[rivermobster]

Desert Dynamics builds a great car. Friend had one. Rode like a dream. Power to weight is strong this this one, if you have to have a conventional looking car...

http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?showtopic=295102

 

[gqchris]

You guys got me thinking about the Rails. A couple of questions since we are on the topic:

1 I mainly like to go to Barstow, camp, and putt around out in the desert. Would these types of rails work for this? I just want something to cruise around and maybe handle the woops a little.
2 Being a man of "husky" size, (6,3 280) Can I even fit in one of these ? LOL..

Chris

 

[Cole Trickle]

You guys got me thinking about the Rails. A couple of questions since we are on the topic:

1 I mainly like to go to Barstow, camp, and putt around out in the desert. Would these types of rails work for this? I just want something to cruise around and maybe handle the woops a little.
2 Being a man of "husky" size, (6,3 280) Can I even fit in one of these ? LOL..

Chris

If you are going to run it in hard pack you will want more of a dual sport car...better built

Look at ogshockers DD car in the classifieds. A sand car will break in the hard pack whoops

You should fit no problem

 

[rivermobster]

If you are going to run it in hard pack you will want more of a dual sport car...better built

Look at ogshockers DD car in the classifieds. A sand car will break in the hard pack whoops

You should fit no problem

This ^^^

Dual sport cars are nice, but I'd rather have a Jeep for out there in Barstow. We ran my friends Desert Dynamics dual sport out in the desert, but I'm not a huge fan of eating dirt.

 

[DaveH]

i have a really nice suspensions unlimited sand rail, would consider selling.

4 seater, 5 link rear end, 16" travel, new beard seats with heaters, new 2332VW port injected and distributorless with Autronic engine management,
930cv's with full 091 weddle bus box. HID lights, fox coilover at each corner, really nice and super clean. the V8 cars wont keep up with you in the dunes.

PM me if interested.

 

[Meaney77]

I know funcos dune great but damm there ugly

X100....

 

[Meaney77]

LoL. They are funky looking, but you know as well as I do, that's prolly the best built car out there. Might be the best handling too.

Any car is gonna cost you if you break something.

Maintenance will be minimal.

Gotta know how to drive in the sand.

Best built.... That's up for debate. I know of some Tatum's, Buckshots, Extemes and a few others that would shit all over those funky looking Funco's in handling, building and overall build quality.

 

[Wicky]

I know funcos dune great but damm there ugly

Nothing about that car screams easy maintenance. Yeah you might score it for 25k but you better have 5-10k in cash lying around when you run into CV,motor or tranny issues.

They do get the ugmo award!!!

 

[rivermobster]

Best built.... That's up for debate. I know of some Tatum's, Buckshots, Extemes and a few others that would shit all over those funky looking Funco's in handling, building and overall build quality.

Now nice for you! BTW, how much did they spend on those cars??

You could debate all day about who build the best car out there. Just like you could with boats.

In case you forgot, the discussion was about SxS vs. Rails, and the pros and cons of both. I'm just showing some examples of what you can get for the money the OP has in his pocket.

If you can find something for 25k, that would be a better value than that Funco I posted, why don't you post it up? I'm sure the OP would appreciate it.

 

[rivermobster]

Here are the results of Three qualifying races, and the final results of the fourth race.

http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?showtopic=137434

Here is the link to all of the qualifying races, if you wanna see ALL the cars that were entered.

http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?showforum=250

Notice who came out number one (and also what brand of car dominated all the top spots in every single race)? This was no drag race, it was a fast pace race through the dunes with every terrain thrown in. I helped lay out the track. Everyone had a hell of a time. :thumbsup:thumbsup

 

[Meaney77]

Now nice for you! BTW, how much did they spend on those cars??

You could debate all day about who build the best car out there. Just like you could with boats.

In case you forgot, the discussion was about SxS vs. Rails, and the pros and cons of both. I'm just showing some examples of what you can get for the money the OP has in his pocket.

If you can find something for 25k, that would be a better value than that Funco I posted, why don't you post it up? I'm sure the OP would appreciate it.

You are right we could debate all day long about cars and build quality, etc? sorry for getting off topic. As I mentioned in my earlier post, go look on Glamis Dunes or Race Dezert or The Samba in the classifieds sections- even craigslist. You would be really surprised what you can find for $25K. There is still some great deals out there that would get you around Glamis or wherever that aren?t $100K and are probably still very turnkey and reliable.

And I am not saying don?t buy a SxS but do your research before pulling the trigger. My wife and I were pretty hot on buying one until one night out in the Pismo dunes we lawn darted one ass over tea kettle pretty easily. I am not new to Pismo, dunning or driving and we waded it up pretty good luckily with no injuries and minor damage. That was my turning point.

I also have 2 different friends that went out and pulled the trigger on new SxS?s and spent a good amount of money on aftermarket components and its still wasn?t enough for them. At the end of the day they have a SxS that they are into for $20-25K, it wasn?t fast enough, they are still chewing dirt, and still cold, and isn?t street legal. Only to find out that if they would have looked a bit harder and longer they could have found a nice legitimate dual sport car, with windshield, race radios, and a license plate.

At the end of the day it doesn?t matter what you get as long as you and your family are having fun, that?s what its all about. There is always going to be somebody with bigger, better, faster and their own opinion on what to buy and what not to buy.

 

[Meaney77]

Always another option.... These pop up periodically for sale for around $18-20K

http://www.predator-offroad.com/

 

[Cole Trickle]

Always another option.... These pop up periodically for sale for around $18-20K

http://www.predator-offroad.com/

Junk.....

 

[Hammer]

Junk.....

Curious to why they are junk ?

 

[Cole Trickle]

Curious to why they are junk ?

Mostly china built components.

Put together here by people I wouldn't want to put my car together.

They tried to race the buggies years ago in the Baja 1000 and had tech problems because the roll bar tube wall thickness wasn't to tech standards.

My uncle got fucked over pretty good by the owner. Sold him a car and promised him a supercharged eco tech would work fine with the CVT. Needless to say it didn't work and my uncle ended up having to back half the car and install a built 091. Cost him a lot of $$$ headaches and 2 lost seasons.

I don't have any experience with the newer cars.

 

[DaveC]

I know nothing about rails but have always wondered about these?

Light package, Honda V6 reliability, almost 300 hp. Seems like a recipe for some fun.:thumbsup

Desert Dynamics builds a great car. Friend had one. Rode like a dream. Power to weight is strong this this one, if you have to have a conventional looking car...

http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?showtopic=295102

 

[WTMFA]

Mho............I have both a long travel buggy and rzr. The rzr is bad ass and I love it for everything but running the DUNES hard. My buggy only has about 500hp and I could make you piss your pants compared to running the dunes in the rzr. The sxs' s do everything very well but................If you wanna REALLY tear up the dunes.............A long travel buggy is the ONLY way to go. ..............

 

[LowRiver2]

Mho............I have both a long travel buggy and rzr. The rzr is bad ass and I love it for everything but running the DUNES hard. My buggy only has about 500hp and I could make you piss your pants compared to running the dunes in the rzr. The sxs' s do everything very well but................If you wanna REALLY tear up the dunes.............A long travel buggy is the ONLY way to go. ..............

Agreed,...so...when you get married, have a couple kids, a Harley, boats, river pad....something's gotta give for some of us. I gave up the rail part, just was the smallest "piece of the pie" of what I can spend my free time doing.

 

[LowRiver2]

Junk.....

Agreed, they ate belts like crazy.

On another note,my father in law runs a "stock" CBM ECO tech in his mid travel Chenowth at 180 HP/ that thing runs great around the desert.

I'll get a pic up after Tday, It was family built from the frame up, about $20K total, and is about as dual purpose as one could get for that price range with bus box.

The Chenowth frames are stout, one of the reasons the SEALS used them in the 80's:thumbsup.

 

[Wicky]

You are right we could debate all day long about cars and build quality, etc? sorry for getting off topic. As I mentioned in my earlier post, go look on Glamis Dunes or Race Dezert or The Samba in the classifieds sections- even craigslist. You would be really surprised what you can find for $25K. There is still some great deals out there that would get you around Glamis or wherever that aren?t $100K and are probably still very turnkey and reliable.

And I am not saying don?t buy a SxS but do your research before pulling the trigger. My wife and I were pretty hot on buying one until one night out in the Pismo dunes we lawn darted one ass over tea kettle pretty easily. I am not new to Pismo, dunning or driving and we waded it up pretty good luckily with no injuries and minor damage. That was my turning point.

I also have 2 different friends that went out and pulled the trigger on new SxS?s and spent a good amount of money on aftermarket components and its still wasn?t enough for them. At the end of the day they have a SxS that they are into for $20-25K, it wasn?t fast enough, they are still chewing dirt, and still cold, and isn?t street legal. Only to find out that if they would have looked a bit harder and longer they could have found a nice legitimate dual sport car, with windshield, race radios, and a license plate.

At the end of the day it doesn?t matter what you get as long as you and your family are having fun, that?s what its all about. There is always going to be somebody with bigger, better, faster and their own opinion on what to buy and what not to buy.

Funny, I didn't see any SxSs racing the rails....I forgot, they are in a class of their own...

 

[Meaney77]

Agreed, they ate belts like crazy.

On another note,my father in law runs a "stock" CBM ECO tech in his mid travel Chenowth at 220 HP/ that thing runs great around the desert.

I'll get a pic up after Tday, It was family built from the frame up, about $20K total, and is about as dual purpose as one could get for that price range with bus box.

The Chenowth frames are stout, one of the reasons the SEALS used them in the 80's:thumbsup.

220 hp out of an ECO, is it aspirated? Just curious. I have a 2.2 in my car and it puts out right around 180 hp which isn't bad but my car is a heavy girl and like every other guy I want more! Eventually want to do the turbo which puts you right at 300 hp or the Honda 3.5 VTEC. Doing the turbo would be minimal if any fab work.

 

[DaveH]

220 hp out of an ECO, is it aspirated? Just curious. I have a 2.2 in my car and it puts out right around 180 hp which isn't bad but my car is a heavy girl and like every other guy I want more! Eventually want to do the turbo which puts you right at 300 hp or the Honda 3.5 VTEC. Doing the turbo would be minimal if any fab work.

the turbo ecotec is a great way to go. i had a friend who had that setup up in a mid travel car and it was scary fast.

another great package is the subaru JDM ej25 turbo. you can buy the base motor for $900, bolt on the turbo and it will make 300hp on 7lbs.

i have a friend with a SU honda 3.5 turbo.... pulls the wheels off the ground.

 

[Wicky]

the turbo ecotec is a great way to go. i had a friend who had that setup up in a mid travel car and it was scary fast.

another great package is the subaru JDM ej25 turbo. you can buy the base motor for $900, bolt on the turbo and it will make 300hp on 7lbs.

i have a friend with a SU honda 3.5 turbo.... pulls the wheels off the ground.

I bought a second rail for the wifey and I'm seriously considering the ecotec for her car.
Here's my bro Beckley in his Red Hot poker SCU 3.5 car...
[video=youtube;d7F8AOWDJl8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7F8AOWDJl8[/video]

 

[Meaney77]

the turbo ecotec is a great way to go. i had a friend who had that setup up in a mid travel car and it was scary fast.

another great package is the subaru JDM ej25 turbo. you can buy the base motor for $900, bolt on the turbo and it will make 300hp on 7lbs.

i have a friend with a SU honda 3.5 turbo.... pulls the wheels off the ground.

Ya I hear the ecotec with turbo is a bullet proof set up if you run the good forged internal parts. It's the easier way to go for me, no fab work. The Homda package is appealing and not to expensive to do the swap it's just all of the fab work that follows to make it all fit. I am just waiting for the money tree to start harvesting $100's and then I am good....

 

[BajaMike]

I bought a second rail for the wifey and I'm seriously considering the ecotec for her car.
Here's my bro Beckley in his Red Hot poker SU 3.5 car...
[video=youtube;d7F8AOWDJl8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7F8AOWDJl8[/video]

Rails are so much cooler than SXS in the sand....that one is very nice!!!

 

[LowRiver2]

220 hp out of an ECO, is it aspirated? Just curious. I have a 2.2 in my car and it puts out right around 180 hp which isn't bad but my car is a heavy girl and like every other guy I want more! Eventually want to do the turbo which puts you right at 300 hp or the Honda 3.5 VTEC. Doing the turbo would be minimal if any fab work.

I STAND corrected, 180HP, (not my car/lol). Anyways, CBM builds it for $6k ish, I DID do a LOT of "maintenance" on the former 2180 VW that was in it/LOL!

4 years of turn key performance, This car even FELL BACKWARDS off a 20ft CLIFF!, and still was able to start, carry my injured father in law back to his house. That landing was proof to me how strong little Chenowth frames are, 4 adults in the car, only stitches to heads for not having their 5 points tightened all the way.

This car weighs around 1500lbs., plenty of power for this set up. One of CBM guys used to be a Cadi tech, They have the Ecotec mapping/performance perfected.

I do know certain Honda V6's in particular are the ones to have for dirt cars. Don of Sand Cars Unlimited knows the right years, turbo apps for Hondas.

 

[Wicky]

I traded an AR15 for this lil mid engine car. Gun cost me $700. Trans is brand new Rancho pro sand...oil hasn't even been added. Brand new sway away axles. New paddles. New Marvin Shaws. CBM ecotec is going to be about $5k. Can't buy a SxS for this much money.

 

[rivermobster]

Looks like we need and RDP St. Anthony's trip with all the cool hardware around here...

 

[glamis0812]

I bought a second rail for the wifey and I'm seriously considering the ecotec for her car.
Here's my bro Beckley in his Red Hot poker SU 3.5 car...
[video=youtube;d7F8AOWDJl8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7F8AOWDJl8[/video]

That's a SCU Sandcars Unlimited

 

[thmterry]

Baja 1000 last weekend 19 UTV's entered

Farm implements Kicking Ass and Taking Names

UTV Class Winner's time of 27:16:57

Would have won all the following classes:
class 4000
1700
2, 3, 5, 8, 9, and 11
Baja Challenge
Pro Truck
stock full
7200
5-1600

Would have placed:

2nd place in TT Spec, Score Lite, 7SX, 7

5th place in Class 10, 1/2-1600,

8th place in Class 1

13th place in Trophy Truck

Godspeed Kurt Caselli


But if you only run sand a rail is better then a UTV no question about it..

 

[EmpirE231]

If you have 25K cash to spend... rail is the way to go.
If you need financing... SxS is the way to go.

For dunes = rail , dunes & desert = dual sport rail ... the SxS can do both of those too, but not nearly as well... but they do take the cake when it comes to 4X4, crawling / climbing scenarios, tight trails, and street legal in AZ. Over all they are well rounded, but so is a bayliner compared to a hotboat Don't get me wrong, I like SxS... and would like one in addition to my rail... but not to replace it.

 

[EmpirE231]

lol that was supposed to say "hot bote" but got switched.

 

[77charger]

I STAND corrected, 180HP, (not my car/lol). Anyways, CBM builds it for $6k ish, I DID do a LOT of "maintenance" on the former 2180 VW that was in it/LOL!

4 years of turn key performance, This car even FELL BACKWARDS off a 20ft CLIFF!, and still was able to start, carry my injured father in law back to his house. That landing was proof to me how strong little Chenowth frames are, 4 adults in the car, only stitches to heads for not having their 5 points tightened all the way.

This car weighs around 1500lbs., plenty of power for this set up. One of CBM guys used to be a Cadi tech, They have the Ecotec mapping/performance perfected.

I do know certain Honda V6's in particular are the ones to have for dirt cars. Don of Sand Cars Unlimited knows the right years, turbo apps for Hondas.

I plan on going with an ecotec someday as well.Main reason is it aint much heavier than a vw i think 20 pounds more at most.My 2275 weighs 258 turn key ready with oil in it and it will have a lil more power.

My current motor is very reliable but vws are just getting to expensive to build i like the simplicity of them though and i do have all the good internals but now quality of parts is dropping and prices are rising.

But overall i still think the hondas are one of the best ways to go overall as far as keeping decent power and reliablity on the drivetrain without blowing up the budget.

 

[LowRiver2]

I plan on going with an ecotec someday as well.Main reason is it aint much heavier than a vw i think 20 pounds more at most.My 2275 weighs 258 turn key ready with oil in it and it will have a lil more power.

My current motor is very reliable but vws are just getting to expensive to build i like the simplicity of them though and i do have all the good internals but now quality of parts is dropping and prices are rising.

But overall i still think the hondas are one of the best ways to go overall as far as keeping decent power and reliablity on the drivetrain without blowing up the budget.

I think the hondas are fine, I just think the Ecotecs are a better torque/HP ratio in a non turbo set up. VW parts are getting pricey. One of my bro in laws picked up a second Chenowth Explorer with 2275 vw for $5K. He has noticed a rise in prices for all vw stuff in last year.

He got a hell of a deal for a mid travel.

But even HE says no rail/duall sport car can carve a trail in Earp like a 800 or bigger SXS/LOL!

 

[LowRiver2]

Baja 1000 last weekend 19 UTV's entered

Farm implements Kicking Ass and Taking Names

UTV Class Winner's time of 27:16:57

Would have won all the following classes:
class 4000
1700
2, 3, 5, 8, 9, and 11
Baja Challenge
Pro Truck
stock full
7200
5-1600

Would have placed:

2nd place in TT Spec, Score Lite, 7SX, 7

5th place in Class 10, 1/2-1600,

8th place in Class 1

13th place in Trophy Truck

Godspeed Kurt Caselli


But if you only run sand a rail is better then a UTV no question about it..

Nice....
I have to say, those posting thinking a RZR1K is the same as a rhino really need to ride in a 1K, or they'll just find one they can't shake off thier tail on a Dune run Tday weekend.

I'm just wondering,

What RDP members own BOTH a plus 25ft. performance boat, 500+HP in it, AND a LT/LS powered sand or dual sport car? Thinking it's a small group these days?

 

[Cole Trickle]

Nice....
I have to say, those posting thinking a RZR1K is the same as a rhino really need to ride in a 1K, or they'll just find one they can't shake off thier tail on a Dune run Tday weekend.

I'm just wondering,

What RDP members own BOTH a plus 25ft. performance boat, 500+HP in it, AND a LT/LS powered sand or dual sport car? Thinking it's a small group these days?

I don't think people understand what the newer sport sxs are capable of.

What does you're average vw motor put out HP wise?

The newer rzr 1000 are 110 HP in a car that weighs 1400lbs and have what 15" of travel?

Now factor in creature comforts and 4x4 and you have a very capable multi purpose toy.

 

[Meaney77]

Nice....
I have to say, those posting thinking a RZR1K is the same as a rhino really need to ride in a 1K, or they'll just find one they can't shake off thier tail on a Dune run Tday weekend.

I'm just wondering,

What RDP members own BOTH a plus 25ft. performance boat, 500+HP in it, AND a LT/LS powered sand or dual sport car? Thinking it's a small group these days?

I would think there are several people these days... Seems like we all have the same comin interest- boating and the river during the summer. Off road cars, SxS'S, dirt bikes, quads, desert, dunes, and camping during the winter! Sounds like we all have shit figured out if you ask me!

 

[lf2]

The biggest question is what do your camping buddies have? If they all have buggies get a buggy if they have sxs's get a sxs. the two are different and dont mix that well, you will have the most fun with same thing as your group does.

 

[Wicky]

I don't think people understand what the newer sport sxs are capable of.

What does you're average vw motor put out HP wise?

The newer rzr 1000 are 110 HP in a car that weighs 1400lbs and have what 15" of travel?

Now factor in creature comforts and 4x4 and you have a very capable multi purpose toy.

My 2332 is right at 250hp. Total weight is less than 950lbs. Just re-read what you wrote about "average vw" lol.
Jim Hale (Hi desert VW) who built my motor charged $10K for the exact motor he built for me. I was selling his motors for him up here in Idaho.

 

[Cole Trickle]

My 2332 is right at 250hp. Total weight is less than 950lbs.

I don't believe HP ratings for anything in a rail....lol its the only industry where you take the motor out of a car and it gains 70-100hp

I don't even want to know what retail pricing for a 200+ HP vw is. My uncle has owned/ built some very nice turbo and non turbo big dollar vw motors and personally I think there are better options both price and reliability wise.