Russia and Ukraine

[JDKRXW]

Please post a copy of this treaty?

I mis-spoke and used the word treaty. Apologies.
'Declaration' is the accurate description.

NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard | National Security Archive

Western leaders gave multiple assurances against NATO expansion to Gorbachev in 1990-1991 according to declassified American, Russian, British, Germans documents

nsarchive.gwu.edu

I fully expect you to now say 'Gorbachov should have got it in writing'.

 

[530RL]

I mis-spoke and used the word treaty. Apologies.
'Declaration' is the accurate description.

NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard | National Security Archive

Western leaders gave multiple assurances against NATO expansion to Gorbachev in 1990-1991 according to declassified American, Russian, British, Germans documents

nsarchive.gwu.edu

I fully expect you to now say 'Gorbachov should have got it in writing'.

Just so I understand,

Putin had every right to invade Ukraine, displace 44 million people, commit war crimes against civilians and annex an internationally recognized country because Gorbachev 33 years earlier had discussions about his concerns of NATO expansion?

Because the former leader of the USSR who is dead, a country which doesn’t exist anymore, may have been led to believe but such agreement was never included in any treaty, that there would be no NATO expansion? That justifies the extermination of a country?

Following that logic, is Iran now right in developing a nuclear device because Trump pulled out of a signed treaty. Do you back Iran having nuclear weapons for as you said “one side flushed said treaty in toilet”? Or is that a different standard?

I get people say fuck it, Ukraine is not worth defending. Or say fuck it, who cares if Russia takes back its former empire. Or say, communism isn’t so bad, it keeps me from having to compete. But to say Russia is entitled to roll through Ukraine? To say that America fucked Russia and so the Ukrainians deserve it? To say that Russia is doing the right thing?

That’s a real head scratcher.

 

[rmarion]

Just so I understand,

Putin had every right to invade Ukraine, displace 44 million people, commit war crimes against civilians and annex an internationally recognized country because Gorbachev 33 years earlier had discussions about his concerns of NATO expansion?

Because the former leader of the USSR who is dead, a country which doesn’t exist anymore, may have been led to believe but such agreement was never included in any treaty, that there would be no NATO expansion? That justifies the extermination of a country?

Following that logic, is Iran now right in developing a nuclear device because Trump pulled out of a signed treaty. Do you back Iran having nuclear weapons for as you said “one side flushed said treaty in toilet”? Or is that a different standard?

I get people say fuck it, Ukraine is not worth defending. Or say fuck it, who cares if Russia takes back its former empire. Or say, communism isn’t so bad, it keeps me from having to compete. But to say Russia is entitled to roll through Ukraine? To say that America fucked Russia and so the Ukrainians deserve it? To say that Russia is doing the right thing?

That’s a real head scratcher.

says who?..

MSM...
gotcha


btw... do you get any kick back??

 

[rmarion]

Telegram: Contact @TheVoiceOfQ

t.me

 

[regor]

I was trying to get you to consider where we were in March and April of 21 when Russia began amassing troops and equipment against Ukraine? That was two years ago, not one year ago.

We can’t change what happened, Troops were being amassed. He was clearly going in and made his intent clear he was going all the way in.

Those were the cards that were dealt and are now having to be dealt with. There were only two plays then, let Russia blitzkrieg, or arm Ukraine? I accept people think arming Ukraine was wrong and allowing Russia to roll Ukraine over was the better choice.

I’m just curious what they would then do with 300,000 Russian troops on the border of 5 NATO allies. What was their move then? What was their move if Russia did go past Ukraine? And how is the strategy of giving Ukraine to Russia less risky/costly given our NATO obligations than arming Ukraine?

“Those were the cards we were dealt”

Honk honk

 

[monkeyswrench]

Amassing troops?...Russia amassed a whole 300k on the border of Ukraine? Wow, we only keep between 70 and 100k troops in NATO countries, at all times...even when Russia doesn't back wars and corrupt regimes. We park American troops at over 750 bases across the globe. Our soldiers account for roughly 10-15% of the NATO forces, meaning at any given time, Russia has an army of over 1 million built up on it's western borders. A total of 150-200k troops in total are permanently deployed abroad.
Why? What do they do? We have never been struck by Russia. In fact, we have armed many to fight them, and bribed many leaders to keep countries loyal to us.

There are people that feel Russia has become both too powerful, and their land mass too large, and they must be broken apart. Like the Ottoman Empire, they must be divvied up and parsed out.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Oh happy day, multiple news sources saying two Ukrainian pilots are undergoing "skills evaluations" on F-16's. The best part, in Tucson...

Two Ukrainian pilots are in the U.S. for training assessment on attack aircraft, including F-16s

The Ukrainians' skills are being evaluated on simulators at a U.S. military base in Tucson, Arizona, the officials said.

www.cnbc.com

 

[sprintcvx]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1632101956557869056

 

[regor]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1630608463494627332

hahahaha "I'm a Conservative" hahahahahaha

That lying bitch is claiming Putin's doing EXACTLY what our government does!!!!!

 

[monkeyswrench]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1632101956557869056

But, but...that was in 2013! It obviously has nothing to do with what is happening now! That was a long time ago!

Seeds were planted before that, then we started dumping fertilizer like Miracle Grow on it...

 

[rmarion]

 

[TPC]

really ? did you get that right from CNN?

Here it is. He’s gained some wealth I’ll concede but not from corruption as claimed and not the crazy numbers the fringe right media claims:

President Zelensky Is Not A Billionaire. So How Much Is He Worth?

Despite social media reports claiming he’s a billionaire, Volodymyr Zelensky doesn’t come close to making Forbes’ global wealth rankings.

www.forbes.com

 

[TPC]

What is the Actual Net Worth of Zelenskyy and is it Linked to His Political Career?

On June 19th, 2022, a Georgian-language Facebook user published a fragment of the story by "Channel One" of Russia, which

mythdetector.ge

 

[monkeyswrench]

The big news in Russia today is a bomb plot on some oligarch. The guy is the head of the "Tsargard Companies". Looked them up, and they appear to be security contractors. A guy was filmed placing something under his car. I don't know why this guy would be targeted and not the Wagner guy...unless he was targeted by the Wagner guy or he has financial ties to international people that make him a threat?

 

[monkeyswrench]

Oh happy day, multiple news sources saying two Ukrainian pilots are undergoing "skills evaluations" on F-16's. The best part, in Tucson...

Two Ukrainian pilots are in the U.S. for training assessment on attack aircraft, including F-16s

The Ukrainians' skills are being evaluated on simulators at a U.S. military base in Tucson, Arizona, the officials said.

www.cnbc.com

Wondering about this more last night. They say they are only doing simulator training at this point. In Tucson, the only base I am aware of for such would be Davis-Monthan. Massive base, heard it said that base alone would be the 5th largest airforce. Why there though? Luke AFB I thought does all the foreign force pilot training, and also has simulators and such. Kind of weird seeing fighter jets with other flags, but also pretty cool. Just wondering why they'd "test" them at a base not really known for it.

 

[Sandlord]

Wondering about this more last night. They say they are only doing simulator training at this point. In Tucson, the only base I am aware of for such would be Davis-Monthan. Massive base, heard it said that base alone would be the 5th largest airforce. Why there though? Luke AFB I thought does all the foreign force pilot training, and also has simulators and such. Kind of weird seeing fighter jets with other flags, but also pretty cool. Just wondering why they'd "test" them at a base not really known for it.

The AZ National Guard trains with F-16’s at DM. If they’re training Ukrainians, I wonder if it had to be approved by Hobbs?

 

[monkeyswrench]

The AZ National Guard trains with F-16’s at DM. If they’re training Ukrainians, I wonder if it had to be approved by Hobbs?

Actually, my thoughts were in housing and location. Luke is not the most "liberal" area, and housing is right there from the road. DM is in a more "culturally diverse and inclusive" area, and the base is pretty massive.
Basically, keep the Ukrainians away from rednecks.

 

[JBS]

Wondering about this more last night. They say they are only doing simulator training at this point. In Tucson, the only base I am aware of for such would be Davis-Monthan. Massive base, heard it said that base alone would be the 5th largest airforce. Why there though? Luke AFB I thought does all the foreign force pilot training, and also has simulators and such. Kind of weird seeing fighter jets with other flags, but also pretty cool. Just wondering why they'd "test" them at a base not really known for it.

Must be a new program


NEWS | June 27, 2011

First Moroccan F-16 pilots to complete training with Arizona Air Guard​

First Moroccan F-16 pilots to complete training with Arizona Air Guard

TUCSON, Ariz. - Next Month, the Kingdom of Morocco, a strategic partner for U.S. forces in North Africa, will become the 25th country to own and operate F-16 Fighting Falcons. The pilots tapped to

www.nationalguard.mil

 

[monkeyswrench]

I don't know much about Moldova, but people there are protesting their governments involvement in the war.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Georgia: Brief rundown, the "president" is head of state, but not the head of the elected government. The current president was born in France, and has been in the service of both NATO and Georgia for some time. She is currently in the US, as "protests" are erupting at home. You see, her position is mostly symbolic, a figurehead. The rest of her government is anti-war.
The protesters throwing molotovs happen to be pro NATO and Ukraine.
The US state department has already condemned the actions of the riot police using water cannons, and threatened sanctions to those responsible.

Who wants to bet there are some American ties trying to start another "color revolution"?

 

[traquer]

I understand your position. Let’s chat about it objectively.

So your American policy if you were in charge in 22 is to let Vlad invade Ukraine with its 300,000 troops and 2,000 tanks, 1,000 APC’s and untold numbers of artillery and other lethal munitions. I think we would agree there would be limited resistance due to lack of munitions in Ukraine as we and other NATO members are not supplying them. Vlad mops up pretty quick. There will be some pockets of resistance but I think that is an outcome we would agree upon.

You as the America leader now have 300,000 troops and countless pieces of battle equipment amassed on the borders of 5 NATO members. You have no idea what Vlad will do but you do have an obligation under Article 5 to defend NATO as if it is the US homeland.

Those in Ukraine who pledge to support Russia are clearly fine. The others, those who believe in their former homeland, well we know what happens to them. C’est la vie.

Now that Russia has rolled over Ukraine, how many US troops do you call up in the Guard to deploy to these NATO member countries in the event Putin actually follows through on his speeches to rebuild the great Soviet Union. How much equipment do you move to these countries. How many active battalions do you move to help defend the thousands of miles of NATO borders with Russia now. How many Navy assets do you move into the Black Sea to now insure free access to international waters by NATO allies?

Or do you stick to the position that Russia has made no threats and there is no reason to improve NATO defenses in those countries who border an former internationally recognized county that Russia just invaded, destroyed and ended? That sending troops to defend Article 5 will just provoke Russia and sending troops as a sign of strength is just a provokation?

And lastly, if the policy of the US under your leadership would be to simply let Russia roll through Ukraine, that it is not our business, not our problem or concern. It would naturally follow that your position with respect to Taiwan would be consistent. Let China invade Taiwan and take it. Those who support China live, those who do not deserve a traitors death? C’est la vie?

An analogy that would work would be that the US was a concealed carry holder who was throwing their weight around then when he got challenged, he wasn't quite ready to pull out his gun so he got himself and his little neighbor buddy in a bloody fist fight. Basically if the US wasn't screwing around with Russia for years, this wouldn't have happened. Now that it did happen, we had no choice but to make a half-ass effort to help Ukraine, but we can't help them enough to actually win, so everybody loses.

Not sure if it's true or not but supposedely in the early days of the war Ukraine was ready to surrender and give the East part of the country to Russia in exchange for being left alone. US talked them out of it. It's looking like that's gonna be the outcome anyway 1 year later, but a bunch of people on both sides had to die for it.

I guess two things are for sure. NATO won't ever shoot at Russians, and Russia won't ever shoot at NATO. Everybody knew that from the start, yet we thought it'd be fun to try war, Ukrainian lives be damned since they're not NATO.

 

[spectras only]

Interesting bits about Vindman
The report stated that last year, Vindman, who was born in Ukraine, pitched a project worth $12 million that his company said would address the country's problems with managing the readiness, repair and maintenance of its weapons systems by developing a center within the country to essentially operate as a middle-man between NATO and the Ukrainian military.
According to Breitbart News, Vindman appeared to confirm Human Events' report in a now deleted tweet.
According to a report by Human Events, a conservative digital newspaper, Vindman has been pitching the government of Ukraine to obtain defense contracts through Trident International LLC, of which he is the CEO.

"Thanks for the advert. I’m trying to get logistics in place to help Ukraine win the war and secure America. Looking for philanthropic contributions to get it going. Reach out if you support the cause of democracy and US National Security," Vindman allegedly tweeted.

Some interesting facts in the comment section about Vindman, Just another Ukranian tool/clown
brass-rat
4 hours ago

Vindman portrays a Ranger Badge and Parachutist Badge that in his mind is all too likely intended to mislead those who observe it on his dress blues.

The Ranger Badge merely represents having underwent Ranger school at Benning. Being tabbed simply means Ranger qualified, as is the case with Vindman. It absolutely does not constitute the Ranger scroll, which requires RASP I & RASP II successful qualifications followed by selection into one of the Ranger Battalions of the 75th Ranger Regiment.

The same is true for BAC, or Basic Airborne School, which merely declares a soldier airborne qualified and designated by award of the Parachutist Badge and not assignment to an airborne unit. Such training, however, can permit a solider to participate in airborne operations merely as a particular means of deployment.

By the manner in which Vindman portrays himself generally, I would not be surprised in the least if he seeks to portray himself as having participated in special operations as an airborne ranger. Just for the record, he never did so. He is all about titles, constantly correcting legislators to address him as Lt. Col. Vindman when he testified at Trump's ridiculously concocted impeachment trials.

 

[Danger Dave]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1633512395770404868

 

[Danger Dave]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1633596730867347456

 

[monkeyswrench]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1633512395770404868

On Russian social media they had pics of the headline last night. Their comment: Well, isn't the US Government a "pro-Ukraine" group?

I guess some European investigative journalists looked into things, saw 2 Ukraine oligarchs own a yacht that was rented, and hung around that area...

 

[monkeyswrench]

International Women of Courage Award recipient:
Mrs. Yuliia Paievska – Ukraine

Yuliia “Taira” Paievska has demonstrated extraordinary moral and physical courage in defending Ukraine against relentless Russian aggression. She provided medical treatment to Ukraine’s Revolution of Dignity protestors in 2013, and as head of Taira’s Angels, a volunteer unit of paramedics, she provided tactical medical training on the Donbas front lines from 2014 to 2018. Mrs. Paievska is best known for her work secretly filming and smuggling out videos documenting atrocities committed by Russia’s forces in Mariupol. Russia’s forces detained Mrs. Paievska on March 16 as she attempted to evacuate women and children from Mariupol to Zaporizhzhya, despite her clear non-combatant status. During a three-month imprisonment, Mrs. Paievska lived in a tiny cell with 22 other women, losing 20 pounds and enduring torture and beatings. Moreover, the Kremlin’s propagandists falsely maligned her internationally as a fascist and war criminal. Yet Mrs. Paievska refused to be silenced, and since her release has compellingly advocated for Ukrainian democracy and independence both at home and abroad.

"...clear non-combatant status."
POW in Mariupol...
This is how nurses and aid workers dress in Ukraine I guess...at least the nuns that hang out with the AZOV crew

 

[Taboma]

International Women of Courage Award recipient:
Mrs. Yuliia Paievska – Ukraine

Yuliia “Taira” Paievska has demonstrated extraordinary moral and physical courage in defending Ukraine against relentless Russian aggression. She provided medical treatment to Ukraine’s Revolution of Dignity protestors in 2013, and as head of Taira’s Angels, a volunteer unit of paramedics, she provided tactical medical training on the Donbas front lines from 2014 to 2018. Mrs. Paievska is best known for her work secretly filming and smuggling out videos documenting atrocities committed by Russia’s forces in Mariupol. Russia’s forces detained Mrs. Paievska on March 16 as she attempted to evacuate women and children from Mariupol to Zaporizhzhya, despite her clear non-combatant status. During a three-month imprisonment, Mrs. Paievska lived in a tiny cell with 22 other women, losing 20 pounds and enduring torture and beatings. Moreover, the Kremlin’s propagandists falsely maligned her internationally as a fascist and war criminal. Yet Mrs. Paievska refused to be silenced, and since her release has compellingly advocated for Ukrainian democracy and independence both at home and abroad.

"...clear non-combatant status."
POW in Mariupol...
This is how nurses and aid workers dress in Ukraine I guess...at least the nuns that hang out with the AZOV crew
View attachment 1207435
View attachment 1207436

US Military medics are generally indistinguishable from other infantrymen and carry small arms. In reality, non-combatant status is rarely honored on the modern battlefield.

 

[monkeyswrench]

US Military medics are generally indistinguishable from other infantrymen and carry small arms. In reality, non-combatant status is rarely honored on the modern battlefield.

I think honoring the nurses with the apron of the red cross probably went out about the Civil War. Not just here, globally. As a whole, I'm good with both sides medics carrying guns (honestly, medics and firemen stateside should be allowed to, especially in these times) With this lady in particular, my dislike of her is any ties to AZOV. Just like the OUN, they are being used as tools. When their usefulness is over, they will be cast aside. The problem is, their ideology is what has made them useful idiots. They already hated the Russian speaking populace, so we gave Ukraine money to arm them, and Ukraine in turn promoted them.

I'm many things, and not many of them good. One thing I am not though, is racist. I tend to hate everyone equally, but also open to helping those that need it. Breeding hate against people for where they come from makes no sense. All it does is perpetuate a cycle of violence. The children born over the last 20 years in Eastern Ukraine, will know it was NATO and the US that funded the people that tried to kill their family. Even the children of the AZOV troops killed, will know who helped them, to a point. Those kids will grow up. No different than the children of those killed by the Russians in Afghanistan, or killed when we pulled out this last time. It seems as thought every 10 or 15 years there is a crop of people we've spawned, that wants us dead...at least in my lifetime.

 

[Taboma]

I think honoring the nurses with the apron of the red cross probably went out about the Civil War. Not just here, globally. As a whole, I'm good with both sides medics carrying guns (honestly, medics and firemen stateside should be allowed to, especially in these times) With this lady in particular, my dislike of her is any ties to AZOV. Just like the OUN, they are being used as tools. When their usefulness is over, they will be cast aside. The problem is, their ideology is what has made them useful idiots. They already hated the Russian speaking populace, so we gave Ukraine money to arm them, and Ukraine in turn promoted them.

I'm many things, and not many of them good. One thing I am not though, is racist. I tend to hate everyone equally, but also open to helping those that need it. Breeding hate against people for where they come from makes no sense. All it does is perpetuate a cycle of violence. The children born over the last 20 years in Eastern Ukraine, will know it was NATO and the US that funded the people that tried to kill their family. Even the children of the AZOV troops killed, will know who helped them, to a point. Those kids will grow up. No different than the children of those killed by the Russians in Afghanistan, or killed when we pulled out this last time. It seems as thought every 10 or 15 years there is a crop of people we've spawned, that wants us dead...at least in my lifetime.

Sorry, I mistakenly thought your post was questioning her job description not aligning with her weapon packing image.

Out of respect you're certainly deserving of, I'll leave it at that.

 

[regor]

Oscars Reject Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy’s Bid to Appear on Telecast (EXCLUSIVE)

For the second time, Ukraine President Volodymyr Zelensky has been turned down by the Oscars

variety.com

@530RL they MUST be Putin stooges!!!!!!

 

[530RL]

@530RL they MUST be Putin stooges!!!!!!

Hollywood is a bunch of commie far left liberals.

Like some of the commie Russia supporters in here.

 

[rmarion]

who are the enemies...

 

[bonesfab]

Hollywood is a bunch of commie far left liberals.

Like some of the commie Russia supporters in here.

View attachment 1207602

It would be 10x better than what we have now.

 

[sprintcvx]

@monkeyswrench Are you hearing the same from your sources?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1634189973061529601

 

[bonesfab]

@monkeyswrench Are you hearing the same from your sources?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1634189973061529601

And I am sure they don't have the bureaucracy in the way like we would. Epa, and other gov agencies.

 

[monkeyswrench]

@monkeyswrench Are you hearing the same from your sources?

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1634189973061529601

Russia claimed no missiles were intercepted, Ukraine said they took down thirty. My normal thinking, I'd think between 10-15 were probably intercepted?

We know a couple weeks ago, dummy drones and balloon held decoys were sent by Russia into Ukraine. Although the Kremlin says this was in response to the Ukrainian incursion into the village and the civilians killed, I think this was planned before.

The infrastructure targets, as pointed out in the video, were mostly power generation and transmission. I don't think it was to discomfort the people, I think it was to try and slow the transport of heavy equipment from the port in Poland. Two of the other targets were listed as chemical plants, but the videos looked like refineries. I'm wondering if they were fuel depots, the flames were massive. Tanks run on diesel, as do most every other piece of equipment.

There was an interview with Zuhlzany(sp) on Ukrainian TV yesterday. He admitted that they have no way to stop the "Daggers". That's the name of the hypersonic missiles. He doesn't believe anything offered yet can. I believe Russia had only used 2 of them before. This was leading to speculation that they didn't have many, or still in development and those were tests. Both sides claimed 8 were used the other night. This should get everyone's attention. They have a long range, and are nuclear capable.

As for the mud slowing the Ukrainian's retreat down, and not the advance of Russians, not seeing that at all from either side really. Bakhmut is a clusterf'k. The retreat is covered by artillery on any "decent" road, and the heavies were pulled out 2 weeks ago. The slow advance is house to house fighting. The videos coming out are brutal.

 

[Wedgy]

Hahahahahah the pretzel factory running 3 shifts

As is the munitions factory.

Ohhh Sick burn. Sooo edgy!!

 

[monkeyswrench]

OK, aside from banks closing, and all the normal happy horse shit, here's the highlights:

*USAF conducted two mock runs with B52's. "NOBLE61" did an approach over Europe, lined up with StPetersburg. "NOBLE71" did the same type of run, inline with Tehran. Both planes did what would be expected of a cruise missile type run, and both had high altitude recon probably measuring response and radar magic stuff. I'd assume more threat than anything. B52's are pretty badass, but far from cutting edge.

*Anti-war protests are growing in a lot of countries...even the ones we're told are "pro-Ukraine". A lot of anti-NATO protests, with some violence between groups.

*Some in the US government want to declare "Wagner PMC" as a terrorist organization. The White House does not want to. The general consensus is if they are declared a terrorist group, the US is supposed to declare sanctions on all countries doing business with them. Many countries in Africa have ties with Wagner. I assume the White House is either seeing military aspirations there or natural resource money...don't know.

*Most heard, but just in case, a lone missile strike took out a building in Kiev. This was a couple days after the missile onslaught. This one missile hit a reported "residential structure". Primary news released was intended to show civilian target. More news came out, it seems it was the NATO type headquarters. There really hasn't been any fatality numbers released. If there were CIA and such in country, they had a presence there.

*Missile strikes on civilians in Donbas. Grocery store yesterday. Really not big news, just more upsetting because the shrapnel has english now. HIMARS are being used more frequently than the Soviet era GRADS.

 

[Danger Dave]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1635447532326199297

 

[bonesfab]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1635447532326199297

I wonder if Zelensky choreographed it? It what experience he does have.

 

[monkeyswrench]

Yesterday, an American drone went down over the Black Sea. Now, conflicting reports from US, and Russia. US says a Russian mig repeatedly buzzed it, and dumped fuel on it "using poor judgement" and "environmental damage" (I shit you not, the Air Force commander in Europe sighted environmental concerns) He ended saying he "believed" the mig went down after clipping the drone.

Russian story is they scrambled fighters for an unidentified plane, with no beacons. They claim it was brought down with no weapons...both intercepting migs were landed.

Now, the drone in question landed in international waters. A helicopter was dispatched from a NATO country to recover the wreckage. The only problem, the drone landed not far from the Russian navy base in Crimea, and they had a ship out to get it quick.

US says it was a Reaper. Not many Reapers that far "north", and not the best recon platform. There was a Global Hawk making a path along the Russian border a few hours previous, lit up and beaconed. It's flight record was scrubbed by noon local time. Drone downing was 9:30am.

 

[Danger Dave]

 

[Letsride22]

Oh happy day, multiple news sources saying two Ukrainian pilots are undergoing "skills evaluations" on F-16's. The best part, in Tucson...

Two Ukrainian pilots are in the U.S. for training assessment on attack aircraft, including F-16s

The Ukrainians' skills are being evaluated on simulators at a U.S. military base in Tucson, Arizona, the officials said.

www.cnbc.com

Smoke and mirrors. Even if Ukrain gets a handful of F16's it isn't going to mean shit. Russia has state of the art ground to air, and air to air technology.

 

[Racey]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1636138511341330432

Who's that asshole in the background? he looks kinda familiar

 

[monkeyswrench]

Smoke and mirrors. Even if Ukrain gets a handful of F16's it isn't going to mean shit. Russia has state of the art ground to air, and air to air technology.

I think they will send the fighters for two reasons. One, to start a larger war. Two, to deplete our inventory more.
Both of these will ensure massive spending/pilfering of the money that is left.

 

[regor]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1636754167170564100

Hahahaha fuck’em all Vlad, turn the motherfuckers into glass!!!!

 

[WhatExit?]

Ammunition shortage?

Why the West Is Getting Nervous About Ammunition Shortages for Ukraine​

To date, the U.S. has supplied Ukraine with more than 1 million 155-millimeter shells, the NATO-standard artillery shell. The U.S. army is planning to boost the current production rate of about 14,000 155-millimeter howitzer shells per month to 20,000 by this spring and up to 90,000 by 2025.

For their part, E.U. countries have provided Ukraine with about 350,000 155-millimeter shells in total, according to POLITICO.

But these deliveries have come at the price of both the U.S. and Europe’s own ammunition supplies. “They’ve got to work out how much they’re willing to sacrifice their own stocks and defensive ability in order to help Ukraine,” says Trevor Taylor, professor emeritus at Cranfield University in the U.K., who heads a research program on defense and industry at the Royal United Services Institute think tank.

What Ammunition Shortages Mean for the War in Ukraine

Ukraine is using far more ammo than the West produces. Here's why allies are worried.

time.com

 

[WhatExit?]

Yesterday, an American drone went down over the Black Sea. Now, conflicting reports from US, and Russia. US says a Russian mig repeatedly buzzed it, and dumped fuel on it "using poor judgement" and "environmental damage" (I shit you not, the Air Force commander in Europe sighted environmental concerns) He ended saying he "believed" the mig went down after clipping the drone.

Russian story is they scrambled fighters for an unidentified plane, with no beacons. They claim it was brought down with no weapons...both intercepting migs were landed.

Now, the drone in question landed in international waters. A helicopter was dispatched from a NATO country to recover the wreckage. The only problem, the drone landed not far from the Russian navy base in Crimea, and they had a ship out to get it quick.

US says it was a Reaper. Not many Reapers that far "north", and not the best recon platform. There was a Global Hawk making a path along the Russian border a few hours previous, lit up and beaconed. It's flight record was scrubbed by noon local time. Drone downing was 9:30am.

Interesting (to me anyway) part of this is the Black Sea...

Described by some as “a potential powder keg,” the Black Sea is slightly larger than California and has six countries on its coast: NATO members Turkey, Romania and Bulgaria as well as Georgia and Ukraine, which are considered U.S. partners but are not part of the alliance. The 6th country is Russia.

Russia's shoreline looks to be about ½ of the Black Sea

Google Maps​

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And until I looked at the map, I wasn't sure a ship could sail from the Black Sea to the Mediterranean - yes it can...the Black Sea connects with the Mediterranean Sea through the Bosporus Strait and then through the Sea of Marmara and the Dardanelles Strait. The Black Sea links with the Aegean Sea and the Sea of Crete before meeting the Mediterranean.

And then there's Biden...

At one time, the U.S. helped allies match its presence in the Black Sea and performed exercises there, but the Biden administration pulled American ships from the area when it appeared the Russians were preparing to invade Ukraine. Turkey is now stopping warships from entering the sea through the Bosphorus Strait, which it controls and can close during times of war.

That means the U.S. has no means to recover the drone, which the U.S. said it brought down in the Black Sea on Tuesday after a Russian fighter jet collided with it.

“It points to the lack of a comprehensive approach to a region that is important, not just to our allies and to the countries bordering the Black Sea, but it’s important to the United States’ security as well,” Sen. Jeanne Shaheen, D-N.H., told NBC News of America’s diminished military role in the area.

The U.S. does not have a ship in the area to recover the wreckage, and the only NATO ally that borders the Black Sea and has a navy robust enough to potentially approach the crash site is Turkey, which has tried to remain relatively friendly with Moscow in its war with Ukraine.

 

[just_floatin]

Happy Friday. Smile for the camera FJB.

 

[bonesfab]

Ammunition shortage?

Why the West Is Getting Nervous About Ammunition Shortages for Ukraine​

To date, the U.S. has supplied Ukraine with more than 1 million 155-millimeter shells, the NATO-standard artillery shell. The U.S. army is planning to boost the current production rate of about 14,000 155-millimeter howitzer shells per month to 20,000 by this spring and up to 90,000 by 2025.

For their part, E.U. countries have provided Ukraine with about 350,000 155-millimeter shells in total, according to POLITICO.

But these deliveries have come at the price of both the U.S. and Europe’s own ammunition supplies. “They’ve got to work out how much they’re willing to sacrifice their own stocks and defensive ability in order to help Ukraine,” says Trevor Taylor, professor emeritus at Cranfield University in the U.K., who heads a research program on defense and industry at the Royal United Services Institute think tank.

What Ammunition Shortages Mean for the War in Ukraine

Ukraine is using far more ammo than the West produces. Here's why allies are worried.

time.com

Over a million sent so far?? Is that one for every individual?? Holyshit. Where are they wherehousing all these?