RANT: Hiring/COVID

[YeahYeah01]

Correct me if I'm wrong here.
On the tax stuff... I'm going to make up numbers for an example since I don't know the actual numbers but it was explained to me like this.
up to $20,000 you get taxed 7%
up to $40,000 you get taxed 9%
It's a progressive system
Lets say you made $28,000.
You don't pay 9% tax on $28K.
So you make $28,000 that year... You get taxed 7% on $20K and taxed 9% on $8k. That's $1400 in taxes on the $20K and $720 on the $8K.
If you made $20,001 you pay 7% tax on $20K and 9% tax on $1. Not 9% on $20,001.
The reason you pay more taxes is because you earned more money. The government is dumb but no way they're going to allow anyone to make more money in OT but only pay regular time tax rate.

That's my understanding as well

 

[530RL]

I remember being asked what I wanted to do around 10th grade by one of the teachers. I said I am not sure but a cross country truck driver would be cool for a few years, get paid to travel the US. She asked if thats what my Dad or family member did and I said no. The teacher was insulted that I would even think of doing something like that. I had to sit with the guidance counselor and explain that I was not interested in college prep classes, I just wanted to graduate HS and I would figure it after that, fun conversation to say the least. The one bright spot was my Auto teacher, cool ass dude, went over a lot of relevant topics about life that did not have anything to do with cars. Also got me first real job at the auto shop down the street from the school at 16.

I took a few college classes focusing on law enforcement but college just was not for me real quick. Started working in the trade industry and never looked back. It's pretty nice being able to say I have 16 years of relevant experience from the ground up at 34 years old.

We are not short accountants, finance people, or lawyers. We are short skilled tradesman.

It takes all kinds to make an economy work. One of the things I was always amazed about England was that although they were a class based societal system, people in general did not look down upon different jobs. People were always just as respectful to the janitor as the CEO.

Unfortunately America has lost that view. And it is a weakness. We need more technical vocational training in this country today and those jobs pay much better than many "college" career jobs especially as all things become more technical.

We are either going to have to have a major shift in how Americans view other Americans job choices and how we deliver education, or we are simply not going to be able to grow the economy as much as we could.

 

[RichL]

That's not how it works.

That is not true.

Tax brackets do not work like that. More income will equal more taxes but will always end up with more income. Income taxes work on a progresive tax rate. I know AZ passed some crazy state income tax laws in the last election that are not progressive but that still does not effect federal income taxes.

I've experienced the same. Admittedly it was a long time ago but was caught up in that scenario more than once.

 

[hawgty55]

If I'm not mistaken, you can opt for the UE bennies tax free (not withheld from your check) but will have to claim the money received during tax time.

Either way. Still hard to get off the beach at that rate. Crazy right.

 

[YeahYeah01]

Agreed. Awesome info about England!

I am in a pretty high position now. Respecting everyone from the brand new laborer to owner is huge for me and that culture is valued here. It's refreshing. I will also still go out in the field and sweat with the guys to to show them that I respect what they do.

I fell like it shifting among some, I've seen posts about trades hosting events at High Schools and they are well received. But as many have said here it's hard to find anyone that wants to work and the generations is soft lol so who knows.

 

[Bpracing1127]

so how does the weight of the lithium compare to the lead acids? lift capacities have typically been based on the weight of the battery for counterbalance, or have the oem's (crown, raymond, etc) started engineering lift specific for lithium and the weight differences?

We add weight to the packs for counter balance. Lithium performs better here for the simple fact is we can put weight where we want it (low) to help here.

 

[Done-it-again]

Either way. Still hard to get off the beach at that rate. Crazy right.

Agreed....Just those people will have reality coming to them.

When the UE bennies end in Sept and it looks like the Fed wont extend it.... they will begging for work at take what they can find.

I believe we will see a swing were we might see too many workers wanting jobs and no one hiring....If I was one of those people on UE I would find the best job i could right now and lock it inn cause it might not be there in 6 weeks. If not then you could be stuck at McD's. Remember the min wage didn't pass, so i also believe wages will drop for the ones holding out.... just my take.

 

[bilz]

On the ot subject, I recall a point where the taxes paid were some crazy amount and it seemed like you were netting less than straight time. Sure you may get a huge tax refund st the end of the year, but that doesn't put gas in the boat.
Having recently retired, I am considering looking at a part time gig. I looked at a few small hardware stores. I was surprised to see they wanted full time and not interested in part time employees.

 

[scottchbrite]

was just talking with my oldest nephew yesterday, think he turns 20 next birthday.. hes an engineering student at uc irvine. he got an internship earlier this year with edison. his interhsip ended and they made him an offer to keep him on and he stuck with it. he loves the culture and the work and the fucker makes $26 an hour as an intern! he worked at all kinds of places in high school, retail, warehousing etc. he said edison is the only place hes worked at that he feels he is valued as an employee.

my middle nephew is just starting junior year of highs school, hes currently knocked out from the rona, but had been working 40+ hours a week at a "part time" job at dairy queen. so there are some kids out there that want to work, but sadly they are few and far between..

I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say it’s the way they were raised, being that I know you and your brother. Btw, I ran into your brother at work the other day. We had a power line down call that was actually legit, and guess who showed up.

 

[TimeBandit]

I visited my High School (class of '78) last year. No more wood shop, no more auto shop, no more metal shop, no more electronics lab.

The college loving dems have made the trades "invisible" and still don't teach anything you can use later in life while in H.S.

You can't find tradespeople? Kids don't know what that is. Now ethnic studies, there are plenty who know about that!

Sad.

 

[Bpracing1127]

I visited my High School (class of '78) last year. No more wood shop, no more auto shop, no more metal shop, no more electronics lab.

The college loving dems have made the trades "invisible" and still don't teach anything you can use later in life while in H.S.

You can't find tradespeople? Kids don't know what that is. Now ethnic studies, there are plenty who know about that!

Sad.

Yep my HS got rid of auto a few years ago. Also got rid of computer science lab

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

it bad at all levels. I am I’m software sales engineering and trying to hire folks 1-3 years out of college with limited finance, accounting or Internal audit / compliance skill sets.

75-80k base with OT. Some of these kids want 125k plus OT, when the w2 they submitted for offer justification show they make less then 65k today. I am over kids wanting everything, but not putting the time in to get it. Told my boss, F the new hire, let me hire a sr guy that realizes you can make 100k a year in OT on top of your base if you work the hours.

That's a better strategy for sure.

 

[Orange Juice]

it bad at all levels. I am I’m software sales engineering and trying to hire folks 1-3 years out of college with limited finance, accounting or Internal audit / compliance skill sets.

75-80k base with OT. Some of these kids want 125k plus OT, when the w2 they submitted for offer justification show they make less then 65k today. I am over kids wanting everything, but not putting the time in to get it. Told my boss, F the new hire, let me hire a sr guy that realizes you can make 100k a year in OT on top of your base if you work the hours.

I’m the senior guy you’ve been looking for.
Fuck your salary, and the bullshit workload.
I have a 2 million dollar 401k, I’m debt free. I work when I want to work, or the money is too great to pass up.
By the way, good luck interviewing my kids. They have watched all the good YouTube videos, and have a solid understanding of their value.
They also know what to look for during an interview.
It’s not just employees. Some of you jackass employers have no clue what you’re doing, and wasting my time.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I’m the senior guy you’ve been looking for.
Fuck your salary, and the bullshit workload.
I have a 2 million dollar 401k, I’m debt free. I work when I want to work, or the money is too great to pass up.
By the way, good luck interviewing my kids. They have watched all the good YouTube videos, and have a solid understanding of their value.
They also know what to look for during an interview.
It’s not just employees. Some of you jackass employers have no clue what you’re doing, and wasting my time.

This is gonna be good.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

it bad at all levels. I am I’m software sales engineering and trying to hire folks 1-3 years out of college with limited finance, accounting or Internal audit / compliance skill sets.

75-80k base with OT. Some of these kids want 125k plus OT, when the w2 they submitted for offer justification show they make less then 65k today. I am over kids wanting everything, but not putting the time in to get it. Told my boss, F the new hire, let me hire a sr guy that realizes you can make 100k a year in OT on top of your base if you work the hours.

I have never once been asked to submit a w2 or anything else to "justify" my ask... my resume justifies my ask. That goes for recruiters, exec search etc. If you asked me for that during an interview, I'd be inclined to laugh at you while I walk out the door...If it was during the "process" I'd decline to provide it....thats an invasive request...and its not even a thinly veiled attempt to see how low of a number you can throw out to the candidate.

 

[YeahYeah01]

I have never once been asked to submit a w2 or anything else to "justify" my ask... my resume justifies my ask. That goes for recruiters, exec search etc. If you asked me for that during an interview, I'd be inclined to laugh at you while I walk out the door...If it was during the "process" I'd decline to provide it....thats an invasive request...and its not even a thinly veiled attempt to see how low of a number you can throw out to the candidate.

Ya I was with him until he said that part. I thought my resume and experience in my interview justifies the offer. Not how much I've been making.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

Ya I was with him until he said that part. I thought my resume and experience in my interview justifies the offer. Not how much I've been making.

I put in 4 years of "bitch work" under a guy who taught me a lot but held my contractor license sign off over my head. Those years were not pleasant...my license is worth a lot, as is my experience, education, etc. My first job after that one I made over double.... The thought that that would even be ok to ask for is baffling.

 

[attitude]

I’ve been looking for a new job and there seems to be a lot of jobs out there in my field, but most of them are one year contracts. I’m having a hard time stepping away from my solid job to a higher paying job that is not guaranteed after a year.

 

[YeahYeah01]

I put in 4 years of "bitch work" under a guy who taught me a lot but held my contractor license sign off over my head. Those years were not pleasant...my license is worth a lot, as is my experience, education, etc. My first job after that one I made over double.... The thought that that would even be ok to ask for is baffling.

100%. You passed a threshold that not many pass. You previous pay has no bearing on your future pay.

I've been asked to provide a project list with projects that I've managed and values associated with them. That makes sense to me.

I guess I can see asking for college transcripts if that degree is relevant.

 

[YeahYeah01]

I’ve been looking for a new job and there seems to be a lot of jobs out there in my field, but most of them are one year contracts. I’m having a hard time stepping away from my solid job to a higher paying job that is not guaranteed after a year.

The fact that they are contract is probably why they pay more.

Unless is double or triple your pay and still provides the same benefits its not worth it IMO.

 

[Ace in the Hole]

100%. You passed a threshold that not many pass. You previous pay has no bearing on your future pay.

I've been asked to provide a project list with projects that I've managed and values associated with them. That makes sense to me.

I guess I can see asking for college transcripts if that degree is relevant.

Both of those I can see...I won't always disclose values of projects etc...bc pretty much every major employer/investor I've worked with had some form of non-disclosure. I'm pretty proud of most projects I've been involved with so I'll name drop as needed. I have no problems with transcript, and license copy..thats pretty normal.. A w2 though...get fucking lost.

 

[530RL]

Ya I was with him until he said that part. I thought my resume and experience in my interview justifies the offer. Not how much I've been making.

I always justified pay by the results I produced? And if I didn’t produce results I didn’t expect to get paid. And if I did and they didn’t pay me enough I found someone who would. What I did in the past or my experiences meant nothing. It is simply the results produced each day.

It was always a pretty simple formula for me?

 

[attitude]

The fact that they are contract is probably why they pay more.

Unless is double or triple your pay and still provides the same benefits its not worth it IMO.

The contracts only pay a few more an hour than the in house jobs I’m finding, there are just a lot more contract jobs out there. The pay is quit a bit more than I am making currently but I am also extremely underpaid.

 

[YeahYeah01]

The contracts only pay a few more an hour than the in house jobs I’m finding, there are just a lot more contract jobs out there. The pay is quit a bit more than I am making currently but I am also extremely underpaid.

Gotcha. That's stress of not knowing what you're doing after a year would be really rough man. I've done five year contracts and that was stressful lol.

A year goes by so fast.

 

[YeahYeah01]

I always justified pay by the results I produced? And if I didn’t produce results I didn’t expect to get paid. And if I did and they didn’t pay me enough I found someone who would. What I did in the past or my experiences meant nothing. It is simply the results produced each day.

It was always a pretty simple formula for me?

Lol for sure. That's why I took a predominantly commission-based job. If don't produce I don't get paid. I like steak a lot more than top ramen lol, So I'm going to produce.

 

[attitude]

Gotcha. That's stress of not knowing what you're doing after a year would be really rough man. I've done five year contracts and that was stressful lol.

A year goes by so fast.

If I still lived at home with no family to support I would be all over it, but how much can you trust a recruiter when they say “this company always hires contractors when the contract is up”. It’s like trusting a used car salesman lol.

 

[YeahYeah01]

Both of those I can see...I won't always disclose values of projects etc...bc pretty much every major employer/investor I've worked with had some form of non-disclosure. I'm pretty proud of most projects I've been involved with so I'll name drop as needed. I have no problems with transcript, and license copy..thats pretty normal.. A w2 though...get fucking lost.

That's true to. A lot of the large scale projects speak for then self value wise anyway.

If I still lived at home with no family to support I would be all over it, but how much can you trust a recruiter when they say “this company always hires contractors when the contract is up”. It’s like trusting a used car salesman lol.

Smart man. Lol. The recruiter will get paid after several months of you being there anyway so they just need to make sure you're there for that long lol

 

[Singleton]

I have never once been asked to submit a w2 or anything else to "justify" my ask... my resume justifies my ask. That goes for recruiters, exec search etc. If you asked me for that during an interview, I'd be inclined to laugh at you while I walk out the door...If it was during the "process" I'd decline to provide it....thats an invasive request...and its not even a thinly veiled attempt to see how low of a number you can throw out to the candidate.

If I am offering someone 2 years out of college 80k plus OT (the OT target is 60% of base, so my budget number is 128k) and they say they want 120k plus OT (that is 192k) they better be able to justify the ask. Plus you get performance bonus on top.


Complete different process for experienced hires. These are college hires.

 

[Singleton]

I’m the senior guy you’ve been looking for.
Fuck your salary, and the bullshit workload.
I have a 2 million dollar 401k, I’m debt free. I work when I want to work, or the money is too great to pass up.
By the way, good luck interviewing my kids. They have watched all the good YouTube videos, and have a solid understanding of their value.
They also know what to look for during an interview.
It’s not just employees. Some of you jackass employers have no clue what you’re doing, and wasting my time.

Then you don’t need to apply and if you kid 2 years out of college thinks 130k (80k base plus OT which is targeted at 60% base) a year is not worth it, then you better go look in the mirror.

 

[LBsuperJET]

Fontana, CA. CNC Machining, fabricating, welding, assembly, machine operator, etc. We have lots of varied job opportunities.

When we first moved out here it was great because we could lure in all of the workers that were tired of commuting.

Damn, if you werent that far id beg to come weld for you.

 

[jet496]

We are a very small business, but hiring process and even the reliability of long term employees has me thinking about selling the biz, or just close up shop and me and my partner doing it all ourselves. Dealing with employees has become a burden on business.

This. I don't know how we can stay in business with practically no young blood in the trades anymore. I've made my money so I don't care, I'm ready to go spend it LOL, but my son is taking over & says he'll figure it out.

2 people were scheduled for interviews on Monday, neither one even showed up, called or answered their phone. Hired a guy a month ago who said he was qualified & literally knew nothing about HVAC except how to change a filter. WTF is going to happen!

 

[77charger]

Never in my life have I turned down OT. Baffles me every single time I try to get guys to work extra hours, they just won't do it. Where did the drive to get ahead go?

Back when I traveled I would hire local labor to help with the installations. I had a guy once up in Vancouver BC come in and work the exact number of minutes to earn enough money to buy a pack of cigarettes and he was out!

At my old place I took all I could get. Saturdays during the week etc. easy to make 6-700 cash for a good week in OT.

 

[HBCraig]

This. I don't know how we can stay in business with practically no young blood in the trades anymore. I've made my money so I don't care, I'm ready to go spend it LOL, but my son is taking over & says he'll figure it out.

2 people were scheduled for interviews on Monday, neither one even showed up, called or answered their phone. Hired a guy a month ago who said he was qualified & literally knew nothing about HVAC except how to change a filter. WTF is going to happen!

Just ask Orange Juice and his 2M 401k. He and his kids watched YouTube videos on getting hired. You are doing it wrong.

 

[rmarion]

Hire people over 50...

THEY WANT TO WORK

 

[Sherpa]

Fontana, CA. CNC Machining, fabricating, welding, assembly, machine operator, etc. We have lots of varied job opportunities.

When we first moved out here it was great because we could lure in all of the workers that were tired of commuting.

I'd sign on for a part time gig with an outfit like yours...... but I'm no way local....

--Sherpa

 

[Icky]

Fontana, CA. CNC Machining, fabricating, welding, assembly, machine operator, etc. We have lots of varied job opportunities.

When we first moved out here it was great because we could lure in all of the workers that were tired of commuting.

Do you have any part time work for a college student?

 

[spark2678]

Medium sized electrical contractor commercial/industrial only located in southern Cali. Hiring carded electricians 42-$50/hr depending on experience. IM me if interested.

 

[dspracing]

Do you have any part time work for a college student?

What is your/their major? I can offer part time work in mechanical engineering or electrical engineering. Any shop floor work I could do as well but would prefer that you/they work a full day. The part time(less than a full day) shop job I could certainly offer is in rubber molding and it’s not the most fun. I’ll try to think of some other tasks as well. Send me a PM.

 

[CarolynandBob]

Back when I worked hourly, I think the last was around 1995. I looked at overtime differently.

I would live below my means so that I didn't need OT to live. If I wanted something extra then I would work it, but not often.

After I went salary, the 40 hr work week went away forever, but I negotiated my salary each year. It was never "we are going to give you this much raise this year" Wasn't a contract position, but we treated it that way.

 

[Vib]

Let me chime in with a different perspective.

Many of you know were trying to complete our new RV resort here in Utah. All I have left is the water system items; water tank install, dist. lines, leach field, etc. Maybe 2 guys 10 days total.

Have had 3 different plumbing subs/GC's f__k us over by promising to be here, making excuses then go ghost. Offering T&M, fixed price, whatever...doesn't matter.

We are now delayed 6 months at least at a cost of over 200k.

These are the same subs/GC's that are bragging how they recd PPP loans amd bought trucks, boats, SxS's etc and not a penny made it to their ee's.

They managed to screw the ee's and the customers while pontificating how hard they work and how great their ethics are.

So it's not just employees, its trade owners as well.

Going plumber rate around here is $85/hr, we offered $150 plus. Still screwed us. I'm now looking to bring in anyine qualified that can even work side by side with me in the field while i cover per diem, all materials, everything.

Ive had to learn to run a skid steer, excavator, build a lift station, install septic systems and grade roads. This work isnt that hard. They dont have to out work me, just keep up. Im old now, busted up, and a finance guy and can still outwork these weanies. It's pathetic.

The long ranting point is that it is both companies and ee's at fault.

 

[Icky]

What is your/their major? I can offer part time work in mechanical engineering or electrical engineering. Any shop floor work I could do as well but would prefer that you/they work a full day. The part time(less than a full day) shop job I could certainly offer is in rubber molding and it’s not the most fun. I’ll try to think of some other tasks as well. Send me a PM.

It's for my nephew, I'm not even sure what's going on with his school schedule due to covid. He wants to do mechanical engineering, but I think at the level of his uncle that works for Boeing.

I would get him a job, but our shop is in the LA area, and there plenty of places in the inland empire that would pay the same without the commute.

 

[nowski]

Hire people over 50...

THEY WANT TO WORK

That is true but only part of the equation. Hiring an older gentlemen (lots of experience and good work ethic) that is also a mentor will be the ultimate hire for any employer. You got to teach these kids good work ethic and get them to be self thinkers / sufficient. The problem with today's kids is all they want to do is collect a paycheck.

I wish all of the employer's on here looking to fill those vacant positions all the best...

 

[badgas]

Correct me if I'm wrong here.
On the tax stuff... I'm going to make up numbers for an example since I don't know the actual numbers but it was explained to me like this.
up to $20,000 you get taxed 7%
up to $40,000 you get taxed 9%
It's a progressive system
Lets say you made $28,000.
You don't pay 9% tax on $28K.
So you make $28,000 that year... You get taxed 7% on $20K and taxed 9% on $8k. That's $1400 in taxes on the $20K and $720 on the $8K.
If you made $20,001 you pay 7% tax on $20K and 9% tax on $1. Not 9% on $20,001.
The reason you pay more taxes is because you earned more money. The government is dumb but no way they're going to allow anyone to make more money in OT but only pay regular time tax rate.

Correct and paying 9% on $30 per hour vs 7% on $20 per hour is not a diminishing return. I know some employers might yank way too much taxes out of the OT. My employer take WAY too much out of commission checks. In the end you will get the money back when you file taxes but it does suck. I would rather have my withholding set so I get no return. I don't want to give the fed an interest free loan until my taxes are done.

 

[cakemoto]

It's not when can you start it's how long will you last???

I’m only gonna work for 20 more years and I’m done.I guarantee you I can out work two people on average but I drink Coors light every other night so

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Correct and paying 9% on $30 per hour vs 7% on $20 per hour is not a diminishing return. I know some employers might yank way too much taxes out of the OT. My employer take WAY too much out of commission checks. In the end you will get the money back when you file taxes but it does suck. I would rather have my withholding set so I get no return. I don't want to give the fed an interest free loan until my taxes are done.

Adjust your withholdings?

 

[Flying_Lavey]

I’m only gonna work for 20 more years and I’m done.I guarantee you I can out work two people on average but I drink Coors light every other night so

Every other? come on now...... lol!

 

[ChumpChange]

i just know from my personal experiances..

my paychecks proved it to me. the more ot i worked over a certain amount of hours, more percentage it was taxed. also had a job out of highscool where i got a 10cent raise per hour, i took home less after that raise. ive always tried to keep it where i got a small to zero refund at end of year. id rather keep my money for myself than let them borrow it for ayear

Understandable on what you experienced. The progressive tax doesn't always balance out until you file your tax returns. So by working more overtime, the payroll company withheld more tax as that paycheck on an annual basis would have you in a higher bracket. When your checks were smaller they had you at the lower bracket.

All would have been taken care of at the end of the year but you still felt a temporary hit per paycheck when OT was high.

 

[Wedgy]

We are not short accountants, finance people, or lawyers. We are short skilled tradesman.

It takes all kinds to make an economy work. One of the things I was always amazed about England was that although they were a class based societal system, people in general did not look down upon different jobs. People were always just as respectful to the janitor as the CEO.

Unfortunately America has lost that view. And it is a weakness. We need more technical vocational training in this country today and those jobs pay much better than many "college" career jobs especially as all things become more technical.

We are either going to have to have a major shift in how Americans view other Americans job choices and how we deliver education, or we are simply not going to be able to grow the economy as much as we could.

The Construction Trades programs within the Sweetwater Union High School District were initiated by a Union partnership with Montgomery Adult school, and were held at the Montgomery High School campus in 1999. Union Trades classes, open to the Public, ran continouously there up until 2010. Since that time, my Dear Friend Paul Chilson, Paul Chilson Plumbing, Plumbing Instructor at San Diego Job Corps, started the program up on a Districtwide scale and brought the Trades classes into participating High Schools for Students in the Sweetwater Union High School District. Sadly, Paul passed away not long after realizing his dream.

Coming from a Recievers Coach part time at Montgomery High School, to Initiating the Construction Trades program within his Home District, and bringing the Trades into the High Schools. Teaching Plumbing full time at his old High School. RIP and take a break, Paul.

 

[Spudsbud]

Until Creepy joe & his minions cut to the bone, the unemployment & minority bennies across the board, nothing will change.
No matter what you offer $$$ No doubt alot. They'll always figure they can do better OR... just plain dont want to/need to, work.
Hard to compete with free $$$.

 

[Cobalt232]

I visited my High School (class of '78) last year. No more wood shop, no more auto shop, no more metal shop, no more electronics lab.

The college loving dems have made the trades "invisible" and still don't teach anything you can use later in life while in H.S.

You can't find tradespeople? Kids don't know what that is. Now ethnic studies, there are plenty who know about that!

Sad.

They turned our woodshop into a dance/yoga studio 'less liability' they said.