Project StressEliminator Restomod-23 Daytona

[lenmann]

More great progress! That cold beverage was well earned.

A couple of questions. Please understand that I am trying to learn as much as I can about this stuff so some will be fundamental, and no offense is intended in any way shape or form. I am impressed by the scope of the job you have taken on here and the work looks to be top notch.

Are you using surfacing agent in the resin?

Are you sanding grinding between lamination layers or is the resin still tacky from the previous layup?

What is limiting the length of your lamination's? It looks like you are laying up 6 foot long or so sections down the length of the stringer. Why not a 21 foot long piece of CSM or 1808?

Did you consider using a wider piece of cloth and wrapping over the stringer versus up either side?

Thanks again and keep the updates coming.

Len

 

[HydroSkreamin]

More great progress! That cold beverage was well earned.

A couple of questions. Please understand that I am trying to learn as much as I can about this stuff so some will be fundamental, and no offense is intended in any way shape or form. I am impressed by the scope of the job you have taken on here and the work looks to be top notch.

Are you using surfacing agent in the resin?

Are you sanding grinding between lamination layers or is the resin still tacky from the previous layup?

What is limiting the length of your lamination's? It looks like you are laying up 6 foot long or so sections down the length of the stringer. Why not a 21 foot long piece of CSM or 1808?

Did you consider using a wider piece of cloth and wrapping over the stringer versus up either side?

Thanks again and keep the updates coming.

Len

Lenmann, great questions, I'll answer them in order as best as I can.

No to the surfacing agent. The 1808 has strings sewn longitudinally (the long way sorry, it's funny every time) and if you roll the resin out right it dries with a dull shine and the strings hanging out.

I can tell you I'm pretty damn sick of grinding all those layers between every layup. I'm going off my friend Roger's advice, and trying to get it laid while the previous layer is tacky. If it isn't, and it's less than 24 hrs, I'll just grind anything that would prevent a smooth layup of the next layer. If it's more than 24 hours, grind the WHOLE thing. Bummer. Sometimes you just run out of time, and that sucks, because there is a lot more work (filthy work) involved.

The factors that are limiting the length of my layups are the lack of experience, the size of my gonads, and the frustration of a layup kicking before you are finished with it. Guess what you get to do then? More grinding. Ugh. Seriously, being rookies, the 6' pieces were about all we could handle. It definitely would be stronger if we'd laid one long piece like you suggested, but we didn't have the skills at the time to do that. It also depends on how many people are involved. I'm pretty sure anyone that is trying to make a living at it is probably using at least 3 or more dudes or dudettes. It is tough to do by yourself, 2 people makes 2 really hustling people, and 3 seems to be the minimum to feel like you have decent control over things. The other thing that made it tough was working under the deck. We talked numerous times about splitting the deck from the hull, it certainly wouldn't have taken much, but remember the hull wasn't in a mold, and as much as we had ground away, I'm pretty sure the only thing holding the thing from collapsing like a dishrag was the deck holding it together. The last time I weighed the hull and deck, it was 770 lbs, and the stringers and core were still in, so I'm pretty sure it weighed as little as 550 lbs at one point!:yikes That is pretty much just a skin, and it definitely felt like it. If you remember reading early on in this thread, the hull and deck with floor and fuel tanks was 1540.

We did discuss wrapping one piece of cloth from freeboard to top of tunnel, but in order to do that, the tops of the stringers would have to have been rounded for the 1808 to lay over, and we weren't willing to give up the surface area to attach the floor. That would surely also be stronger, but by the time you ground it for floor attachment, we felt we would have ground away most of the strength we were hoping to gain, so we opted for simplicity. We did what the team felt comfortable we could accomplish. Our method of offsetting the seams was our compromise.

I can tell you that you can jump as hard as you want, kick as hard as you want, you will break your ankles before it will even creak. I've taken the floor jack to areas from the bottom to look for deflection, and it will lift the boat first.

We're not done stiffening it, there's more to come.

Thanks again for your interest!

 

[Headless hula]

Yes. More to come...
I haven't finished washing my clothes of this project.


Lmao....

 

[HydroSkreamin]

The starboard sponson process was practically the same as the port, other than with spring in full session there is a lot of kid's school stuff going on, and that takes precedence over about anything I've got going on in the garage short of an emergency repair of a vehicle. We kept at it when time allowed, allowing enough time for a complete lamination. Setting aside a solid 4-6 hrs of time can be a big deal when you are trying to get 3 people's free time lined up. Crash and Headless Hula were gracious with their time, and we made good use of it, although we would spread the sections out over days or a week, getting together when we could.

CSM going down. You can see the starboard pre-cut pieces laying in the port sponson. Each piece got numbered as to which layup and what location it was for, so there was no confusion on the seams. This worked quite well, and we continued to use this process as we did further layups, as many require more than one layer.



1808 going down




Lamination tracking, with comments... You can also see the initial renderings of Headless Hula's graphics at the top of the board.



I'd still love it if someone would educate me on how to turn pics, this is ridiculous...

If you don't hurt your neck reading it sideways, we cut our layup about in half, due to fitting pieces better before layup. That makes the layup go much easier, but it still takes a couple of hours to fit and cut pieces, just not with the added excitement of kicking resin. The other thing you see in there is some time to EAT! My rule is if you are helping me, I am feeding you. Beverages too!

Stringer install with bracing


Stringer installed, ready for layup.



My buddy Kevin owns Motion Metalworks, in Wrens, GA, not far from Augusta(http://www.motionmetalworks.com/home). We used to build street rods together, and he makes all sorts of cool parts with his laser, waterjets, CNC tubing and sheetmetal benders. He made some bottle openers, and sent me an envelope full of them. He also does in-house powder coating, so I gave the uncoated units away and will be doing field testing on the coated version. Pull the trigger and the cap goes flying. Another lamination celebration.



Next installment: We hit a fork in the road before transom building...things get interesting!:hmm

 

[lenmann]

Looking great!

You guys are flying down the learning curve. Soon you will have enough experience and skill to add this craft to your list of possible second or third careers.

I can't wait to follow along through the upcoming transom drama.

The resin and glass supplies arrived this week for my own little project. Not sure how much time I'm going to get in this month with the holidays but I should have some Itchy and Scratchy updates coming soon.

As always thanks for bringing us along on your adventure. I learn a little bit more every time you post.

Len

 

[Headless hula]

Here's a cropped picture of that lamination record. Lololol...

 

[HydroSkreamin]

So, after looking at all sorts of pictures of running and trim angles of 23 Daytonas, and then measuring the differences in angle and height of the center pod and sponsons on my own 23 Daytona, I started asking questions of my boat racer and boat builder friends. Let me tell you, asking bottom questions is like asking for fiberglass advice; EVERYONE will give you different answer!

As I asked for opinions on the center pod, some were "take it out!", others were "do a notch!", some were "raise it....2...no, 4....no, 6 inches!". Of course, there was "leave it the F*(K alone!".

Well, since the center pod was not parallel to the sponsons (-3[SUP]o[/SUP]), leaving it alone was not an option. It didn't make a lot of sense to me to be basically doing the equivalent of dragging a tab trimmed down in the water while trying to obtain top speed. Soooo, after a long discussion with Roger, it was decided to raise the center pod 6", forward 62" from the transom. The 62" comes from shooting for a 52-60" CG, and wanting the break in the running surface to be ahead of the CG. The 6" height came from looking at newer center pod boats and talking to other boat builder/modifier people. The thought was, we are cutting and laminating now, it is easier to add back than to raise it again. I'm ultimately trying to reduce wetted surface at speed to reduce drag, and hopefully add some efficiency in doing so. Using 62.3 lbs/ft[SUP]3[/SUP], we lost about 153 lbs of bouyancy. Kinda like having someone laying on the sunpad all the time. I'm not too concerned about it.

Now we had a plan....basically a 6"x62" notch is what it technically is.

So, I measured 3 or 4 times before laying out the cut lines, and utilizing HeadlessHula's 7" Makita with a diamond wheel, we plunged in (literally!). I'm not gonna lie, it's an exhilarating feeling taking something that floats and making it so it can't! We had a good plan in place before I ever even laid lines out, so I wasn't terribly nervous, but there is something to be said for removing the bottom of your boat!

Measure twice (or 3 or 4 times), cut once!



The HeadlessOne modeling his new line of removable center pods....



Rear view lets a little more light through. See why we put the bracing on?



And a top view...this needs to get fixed!



The reason this had to be done at this time is we were starting to make templates for the transom pieces that needed to be cut out and laminated together, and we certainly weren't going to be modifying the transom as we were building it. We're not turning back now....

We very much enjoyed this journey, hope you enjoy following it along.

Next installment: FIX WHATCHA BROKE!!

 

[lenmann]

Wow, that takes this deal to a whole new level...

 

[Headless hula]

Here's a picture of me cutting a hole in your boat. Lol.. :yikes:yikes

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Here's a picture of me cutting a hole in your boat. Lol.. View attachment 526319 :yikes:yikes

Actually, that's me in my lucky blue Cigarette shirt, you are wearing an orange and white shirt. :fingers:

You did participate in the removal process, I failed to capture your involvement! What were you using to hold the panel from vibrating, is that a dirty beer bottle? Looks weird.

Wow, that takes this deal to a whole new level...

Yes, yes it did. As my friend Roger put it, "Don't be so uptight, it's just fiberglass..."

 

[Headless hula]

Actually, that's me in my lucky blue Cigarette shirt, you are wearing an orange and white shirt. :fingers:

You did participate in the removal process, I failed to capture your involvement! What were you using to hold the panel from vibrating, is that a dirty beer bottle? Looks weird.




Yes, yes it did. As my friend Roger put it, "Don't be so uptight, it's just fiberglass..."

That's the vacuum cleaner attachment. We were keeping the dust down

 

[J.P.]

So you shortened the depth of the center pod 6" and notched it back 5ft? Just curious if you know someone that has done that to the 23 before. There was a guy in Oklahoma that had the 23 molds and called them a "Wyatt Earp" I thought he said he had notched the center pod and it helped the boat to lay down more at speed. I never saw a view of the center pod so I cant say for sure.

 

[Headless hula]

So you shortened the depth of the center pod 6" and notched it back 5ft? Just curious if you know someone that has done that to the 23 before. There was a guy in Oklahoma that had the 23 molds and called them a "Wyatt Earp" I thought he said he had notched the center pod and it helped the boat to lay down more at speed. I never saw a view of the center pod so I cant say for sure.

This is the chunk that was removed.

 

[HydroSkreamin]

So you shortened the depth of the center pod 6" and notched it back 5ft? Just curious if you know someone that has done that to the 23 before. There was a guy in Oklahoma that had the 23 molds and called them a "Wyatt Earp" I thought he said he had notched the center pod and it helped the boat to lay down more at speed. I never saw a view of the center pod so I cant say for sure.

Yessir. 62" to be exact. That's the intent, and no, I don't know anyone that has done that specifically to a 23, but I'm all ears about the Okey version.

I didn't notice it until recently, but it looks like the 25 Daytona had the entire pod lifted about that much.

I know that a friend of mine lowered the center pod and made it a V and it was faster as well, by carrying the load on the center and drying up the sponsons, or using them as "training wheels". My intent was to take the negative angle out of the center pod, and here's where we ended up!

 

[HydroSkreamin]

In order for us to be able to lay down the layers of fiberglass we would need to repair our newly made hole, first we would have to make an insert to support those layers of 'glass. I let the contractors do their thing, and HeadlessHula and Crash went over to the HulaHut and made an insert that would fit in between the jig and the boat, starting with some birch plywood cutoffs the HeadlessOne had left over from cabinetmaking. While they did that, I prepped the area around the hole for the next lamination, grinding the edges thin and giving us enough area to get well onto the tops of the tunnels. I also started making cardboard templates of the transom, as that operation will be next.

They glued, nailed, routered, sanded and varnished the insert, and brought it back to my place, where we checked fitment, and they put 5 coats of mold release wax on it.

Here's the piece before varnish



Here it is varnished



Here it is waxed and in place for lamination. You can see one of the pieces of transom cut out and checking for fitment here as well.



Now that we had something to support the fiberglass, we started cutting and fitting 6 layers of 1808, making each layer 1" narrower than the last, numbering and marking each piece so when we went to wet it out, we could have it precisely in place so it laid properly and the seams were in the correct location.



This shows the tails cut in different locations to prevent them from ending in the same spot



In the front, the situation was a little different, as the corner bends the opposite direction, making the material non-overlapping. We added rectangular strips in here to tie everything together and add strength.



The layup took quite a while for us, as it was 6 layers thick, and wetting out all the intersecting corners is a work requiring a bunch of patience. I can't stress enough how important the fitting and marking of the pieces is. It really makes a difference when you locate the piece and know that the corners will all fit together in a decent fashion.



I've never waxed anything up for release before, and apparently I didn't follow instructions very well, as we had a little technical difficulty removing the insert. It "sorta" came out....must not have buffed it enough?



This is where the jig is in the way, because of the sheeting I have in there to square it up, you can't get in there with anything, so I tried jumping as hard as I could on top of the new layup where the insert was still attached, and this is how I know you'll break your ankles before you'll go through that. It's ridiculously rigid. It totally beefed the boat back up, the boat is starting to get a "ring" to it when you get in it. This stiffening stuff just might work!

Up next: transom (FINALLY!!!)

 

[Headless hula]

Hula hut.... noted... lmao!

 

[coolchange]

!!!!!.
Cant wait for the water tests to see the effect.
Thanks for taking the time to document and post the build.

 

[HydroSkreamin]

!!!!!.
Cant wait for the water tests to see the effect.
Thanks for taking the time to document and post the build.

You and me both!! With the temp at zero as I write this, it's going to be a while, but I'm bound and determined to have it on the water in spring of 2017. We'll see what it does in April or May. There's still ice on the water here in March. Guys are still ice fishing in March...:thumbsdown

Glad you like the build thread, I've never done a thread in my life, so this is a first, but I've read so many other rebuild threads on this forum and screamandfly and I've always appreciated the fact that someone shared their experience, good or bad, so others can learn. I guess I figured since I'm using what I've learned from those posts as well, it's my turn to contribute. I am a little surprised how little commentary there is, probably because people don't know me? Or think I'm crazy to do this? I don't know, but I'll keep updating when I have the chance. This thread is about 6 months behind where we are right now, and there has been a lot of stuff going on, I'm pleased with the way it's turning out. Now if we can just make it run! :thumbup:

Thanks for your interest and comments!

 

[n2otoofast4u]

I think there are lots reading, and waiting for the next installment. Myself included!

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Sorry for the slow updates, it takes a chunk of time to document this properly. Thanks for bearing with me.

This is the point of the project where I am starting to feel like it might actually turn into something usable.

It's coming up on Memorial Day Weekend 2016 now, and I had grand visions of actually using it in 2016. I put everything else in life aside that I possibly could (You know, like mowing the lawn, maintaining vehicles, and sleeping!:skull), and it was full steam ahead on the StressEliminator. While it did make progress happen quickly, there is so much to do if you don't cut corners that it just takes a LOT of time.

Speaking of it being Memorial Day Weekend, Headless Hula was thinking maybe he'd actually like to boat during the summer (a short 3-4 months in WI) of 2016, and was prepping his boat for paint at the same time. He was working on two boats, his and mine. His generosity with his time and shop space were key in making all of this happen. I'd do my thing until I needed help, and he'd help me, and if he needed a hand while something of mine was curing, I'd help him. We made it work.

So, after the center pod was laid up, we started making cardboard patterns for the transom pieces. I fit the cardboard tight, transferred it to wood, and then trimmed the wood to fit. After a trip to Dollar General for a load of Sharpies, we put the first layer of transom in and using the marker against the fiberglass as our clearance, traced the edges to match the hull and trimmed from there.



Starboard side


Port side


Here's a glimpse of my buddy Crash holding the first layer trimmed and routered.


We needed a place to build and layup this transom, and the HeadlessOne wanted a sturdy table that was square and level for woodworking projects of his own, so we built one out of extra birch plywood he had around one Friday night. It has 2" strips every foot between the two layers, glued and nailed quite heavily.


It was a few 36 mile round trips back and forth between the HulaHut and my place, but things were fitting and progressing nicely. All three layers were fit and ready for lamination.

Roger had a plan for a very strong transom, using materials and processes he had used before with great success. The transom would be 3 layers of 3/4" marine plywood, with a layer of 1808 between each layer, wetted with West System Epoxy. Externally, the completed transom would get three layers of 1808 on each side, wrapped around the edges to tie the front and the back, and wetted with the poly resin to match that of the boat. This would give the transom incredible strength utilizing the 3 layers of plywood, the total of 8 layers of 1808, and the West System Epoxy as a binder for the wood.

I'm sure some of you are wondering why I would use wood in this, it's pretty simple: economics! Wood is strong, and good if you keep it dry. The first transom lasted 20+ years with poor care, this one will always be stored inside, and the only overnights spent in the water will be on vacation. Also of note, this will have every single through hole and screw hole coated with resin, believe me!

Wetting out the first layer...Hula in the background getting ready for paint


Aligning the second layer. I have the same look in my eyes that my dogs have when I have the tennis ball...now I know where that comes from.


Glued and screwed, we decided that the little 3/8" radius routering we had done originally wasn't going to cut it, and Crash showed up with a 3/4" radius bit, and we used that to router all the way around both sides. This was one of the best moves we made, as it allowed us to wrap all 3 layers of 1808 around from both sides, and with a little attention, it laid quite nicely.


I had grinding to do on the center pod and inner transom on the boat yet, so I hauled the transom back home with me and put it in the sun to cure while I worked inside. There were threats of rain, and I wanted the transom to cure in the sun, but did not want it to get rained on, that's why I brought it with me.


After taking the transom back to the HulaHut, we laid up the aft side with 1808.

We flipped the transom, and prepped the forward side by removing the rest of the screws and filling the holes with Marglass.


At this point in time, I ran out of 1808, and did some quick calcs and ordered enough to finish the transom, and the top and bottom of the floor, as well as both sides of the bulkheads we would be making. I placed the order with Express Composites, and it showed up the next day. Unfortunately, the delivery driver decided that three more steps on to my porch to put the material out of the rain was too much extra effort, and I was not a happy camper when I got home that evening.



I went to the HulaHut to cut pieces of 1808 for lamination, but they were wet. Since the next day was Friday, and I had taken it off to have 3 solid days of progress on the StressEliminator, I was desperate to make this work. So, we cut pieces, and I had the bright idea that if I got home by 1 AM, and got it in the oven at 250[SUP]o[/SUP] it would evaporate and I'd be able to get it out of the oven, my wife wouldn't even know it had been in there, and I could still make my layup in the AM. Well, that sounds good, right?:rolleyes Let me tell you, there's nothing like the smell of fresh baked 1808 in the morning, and describing what all of those shiny white strands are in the oven is a tough sell. The best part?!? I went to do the layup, and the pieces had SHRUNK, like a wool sweater! OOOOOH, I was hot! A day off, a long weekend, and no material! I was ready to make the 4 hour ride to Minneapolis to get new material, but instead the folks at Express Composites sent a new batch out, on their dime, expressing how sorry they were for the mishap. It wasn't even their fault, and after calming down a bit, we changed vector on our forces and I helped the HeadlessOne get his ride to the body shop for it's 3-1/2 day makeover. There was plenty of grinding I could do, anyway. Yay, more grinding!

The following week the new material arrived, and we took one evening to cut and fit material, and another to do the 3 layups.











Needless to say, I was very pleased to finish this task, and it really turned out nice. You can see the detail of the layups in the last pix.

Next installment: Transom install party!

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Just an interjection here on how hard the HeadlessHula was working as well.

He wanted the colors similar to an older boat like mine, but with today's metallic. I helped him search for colors on local parking lots, and we played with tape to get the lines he liked.



Here's Friday of Memorial Day Weekend about 3 PM





Monday, 5 PM. The bodyshop is a mile from my house, so I was able to enjoy the daily progress as well.



I kind of think we were feeding off each other's progress, it was definitely exciting at the time.

Thanks for all of your help, HeadlessHula, you unstable, 72 MPH Baja owner sonofabitch!

 

[pwerwagn]

I've enjoyed this thread so far. Well written, good pics, entertaining.

I'm curious to see how she runs. I was on the fence about a 23' about a decade ago that had zero power but everyone told me it was heavy and slow. I wanted to put a pair of 2.4 200's I had on it.

Hoping for great results on yours!

 

[lenmann]

Holy cow, that's a substantial transom right there! Its gotta be getting pretty heavy too. I guess that's why your throwing a transom install party, gonna take some help to muster that beast about.

Thanks for all the detail on the thread too, you guys are doing a great job.

Len.

 

[Headless hula]

Yup. Unstable 72 mph. Lol... with a small block.

 

[HydroSkreamin]

I've enjoyed this thread so far. Well written, good pics, entertaining.

I'm curious to see how she runs. I was on the fence about a 23' about a decade ago that had zero power but everyone told me it was heavy and slow. I wanted to put a pair of 2.4 200's I had on it.

Hoping for great results on yours!

Glad you like it, that's what it's about.

Believe me, after all this modification, I'm ready for a ride myself! Everyone told me the 23 was front heavy, and I'm believing it felt that way due to the negative center pod angle; just my theory. There were a lot of them running around with 2.4's and 2.5's. I know a guy on screamandfly that had a really clean one with 260's and remote water pickups that said his was in the 105-108 range. The last owner of this boat that had power on it and ran it had 200 JohnnyRudes on it, and it was high 80's, according to him.

Thanks for the well wishes, you'll know on this thread as soon as we run it!

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Holy cow, that's a substantial transom right there! Its gotta be getting pretty heavy too. I guess that's why your throwing a transom install party, gonna take some help to muster that beast about.

Thanks for all the detail on the thread too, you guys are doing a great job.

Len.

The whole idea of a substantial transom is to be able to hang 600 HP worth of outboards on it at some point in time, as that would be a nice running piece.

You're right, it is stout, weighing in at 133 lbs as seen in the last picture. I can tell you the wet wood that came out of there was quite heavy, too, except there wasn't any strength there. I'm really hoping we can keep the hull weight at 1500 with tanks and floor; I think we'll be close.

Glad you are enjoying the thread, there's some more detailed stuff coming after the transom install. Unfortunately, I only have time to update the thread on the weekends. I'll keep plugging along, though. Thanks for your interest!

 

[coolchange]

With 5000 views there's plenty of interest. 98 percent of the people reading wouldnt know where to start asking questions or comment.
Like my dad says, 90 percent of the people that buy plans to build something never intend to do it, they just want to see how its made. As for those scream and fly guys, the'll cut the deck off the hull to change the carpet lol. Waiting to see what if any kind of knee you use.

 

[HydroSkreamin]

With 5000 views there's plenty of interest. 98 percent of the people reading wouldnt know where to start asking questions or comment.
Like my dad says, 90 percent of the people that buy plans to build something never intend to do it, they just want to see how its made. As for those scream and fly guys, the'll cut the deck off the hull to change the carpet lol. Waiting to see what if any kind of knee you use.

Yeah, I think you are probably right. Now you have me thinking, this had carpet, did I do things out of order and I forgot to cut the deck off?!?:yikes

I don't know if this thread is the place to learn how to do ANYTHING, we're just fumbling around with fiberglass, beverages, and advice!

The design intent of Roger's is to not use a knee. I'm probably going to pussify and make some beefy "curtains" that will hide the rigging of the batteries, power steering pump, and jackplate pump.

Thanks for checking out our little project.

 

[Headless hula]

Just an interjection here on how hard the HeadlessHula was working as well.

He wanted the colors similar to an older boat like mine, but with today's metallic. I helped him search for colors on local parking lots, and we played with tape to get the lines he liked.

View attachment 527748

Here's Friday of Memorial Day Weekend about 3 PM

View attachment 527749

View attachment 527750

Monday, 5 PM. The bodyshop is a mile from my house, so I was able to enjoy the daily progress as well.

View attachment 527751

I kind of think we were feeding off each other's progress, it was definitely exciting at the time.

Thanks for all of your help, HeadlessHula, you unstable, 72 MPH Baja owner sonofabitch!

It was very difficult to be working on both boats, and only posting the progress of mine. I am very proud to be a part of your project, and thankful for your help on mine. You've touched on it here a couple times, and I agree. Working on these together, at the same time made things go well for both of us. Thanks for the mention bud. The hula hut is yours anytime you need it.

 

[SBMech]

Man the scope of this repair and the fact that you are both learning as you go and kicking ass is just incredible!

You give me inspiration, since I was ass deep in my own problems with my Spectra, before I was unable to continue since I fucked up my shoulder.

Now I am back at work, healing as I go and looking forward to gettting back to her, this thread has got me pumped! :thumbup:

You and Hulu deserve every bit of praise, that's some serious work you both have tackled!

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Man the scope of this repair and the fact that you are both learning as you go and kicking ass is just incredible!

You give me inspiration, since I was ass deep in my own problems with my Spectra, before I was unable to continue since I fucked up my shoulder.

Now I am back at work, healing as I go and looking forward to gettting back to her, this thread has got me pumped! :thumbup:

You and Hulu deserve every bit of praise, that's some serious work you both have tackled!

Wow, SB, we actually inspired someone, that's cool! :thumbup:

Get healed up and get back on it! I know how that is when you just CAN'T, but really want to. I looked to these very pages for inspiration and ideas as well. This is such a cool place to hang out, gather knowledge, and share information.

If you liked what we've done so far, more detailed creations will be coming soon that you'll probably like. Let's get through Christmas first!!

Also, I have to give a shout out to everyone that helped on this project, it couldn't have been done without every one of them. I'll give a detailed list when I post the transom install here sometime between Christmas and New Years. My wife is having a 3rd back surgery in 4 years the day after Christmas, so I have other things on my mind beside this boat at this very moment.

 

[HydroSkreamin]

So, I have to say, this is the part I was most nervous about on this whole project, as its structure, integrity, and installation are so important to strength and reliability. I was really leaning on my friend Roger on this topic, as I wanted as close to perfect outcome as I could possibly achieve. I asked Roger to be the foreman for the install, and got the help of HeadlessHula, Crash, and two other friends, and scheduled Saturday, June 4, 2016 as Transom Install Party Day. All agreed to Noon on Saturday. Unbeknownst to me, June 4 was Roger's 60th birthday, and unbeknownst to him, his family had planned a surprise birthday party for him, so when his wife found out he was going to be spending the day at my place, she got a little excited. While Rog was in the shower, she got my number out of his phone, and called me. I ignored the call, as I didn't know the number. Good thing she left a voice message, and I called her back immediately. We concocted a plan that I would call Rog and ask him if we could move the date for the transom install to Sunday, as I'd been invited to a graduation party that I had to attend. We didn't want to say it was a birthday party for fear he'd catch on.

I called Rog on the evening of May 28th, a week before the transom install party, and he was so happy to move the date, as his daughter had bought time at the trap club for them to go shoot as a birthday present to him, and he was going to skip it as he had a prior engagement with me. Talk about dedication! He did not know that the trap club ruse was to get him out of the house and off the property so they could set up tents, lights, and a canoe full of ice and beverages at his awesome spot on the Wolf River. He was quite surprised to see my wife and I when he walked into his surprise party! It was cool catching up with our old race buddies and acquaintances. In true boatworking buddy fashion, I gave him a gallon of West System epoxy for his birthday, as he said his supply was dwindling and getting old. I didn't even attempt to wrap it, my wife found a cool ribbon with a card and it was presented like that. The unbelievable thing is that I didn't get a picture of it!

So, Rog showed up with minimal or no hangover from his awesome party, and took the reigns immediately. We had Roger, HeadlessOne, Crash, Dave, Erv, and myself. Rog and I were doing the tasks inside the boat, HeadlessOne was chemist, mixing resin for 2 teams of guys, and Crash, Dave, and Erv were cutting CSM and 1808, and laying up a single layer of CSM on the face of the transom that would meet the inner transom of the hull.

The previous evening, HeadlessOne, Crash and I checked the transom for final fit. You can see where the edges were ground for the CSM to have a good bite. The opposite side was ground completely.



Rog didn't like the way the deck and hull met, and it had numerous attempts at repairs over the years, so he decided to remove the joint and we could cap it. Crash fired up my dust collector and I ran the business end of the hose while Roger cut with the 7" diamond wheel.



The guys cut the 3 layers of CSM using the transom as a pattern. I bought some titanium scissors to use for cutting the fiberglass, and they seemed to do a decent job. While the guys were doing this, Rog and I were laying strips of 1808 that the guys had cut for us into the corners to add strength where things had spider cracked. The guys also laid out and drilled the angle iron we had for the transom for screws to squeeze the outer transom and inner transom into a tight sandwich. We decided to let the 1808 kick, and went to Culver's for lunch, my buy. I'm sure we looked like a hell of a crew dressed for fiberglass work coming in there on a Sunday, but we were in and out and back to work in less than an hour. It helps that it's less than a mile from my house.



After lunch, we started wetting the 2 layers of CSM on the inside of the hull, and the single layer on the transom itself.



In order, from left to right: HeadlessHula, Crash, Dave, and Erv. Without all of their help this would not have gone anywhere near as smooth as it had. I think Dave was the only one without some fiberglass experience at this point, he can't say that anymore!



Moment of truth! The guys handed the ~135 lb transom into the boat, and we slipped it under the deck and against the hull.



It proved to be a handful, and Dave saw us struggling and without hesitation jumped up into the boat and lent a hand. With the three of us pushing on it, the remaining guys were running screws with multiple screw guns, pulling the transom from the middle outword, trying to squeeze out any air that may have gotten trapped in there.



Here's a view of the angle iron screwed to the transom.



You'd think that at this point, the beer would start flowing, but not yet! Rog had the guys cutting what he calls "fluff", basically 1/4"-3/8" squares of CSM, cut from scrap and cutoffs. He had HeadlessHula mix in some microspheres and resin, and it was a hell of a soup, more like dough, or really chunky peanut butter, for filling the voids around the edges. Rog and I packed this in while the guys made it for us and cleaned up the rest of the mess left over from the transom install.

Here is what the inner transom looked like after curing.



This is what it looked like after letting it cure a week, then pulling the screws:



What a relief! I cannot describe the feeling having that solid transom installed and not coming out without the aid of a small nuclear device. It was at this point that I realized we had turned the corner and were on the path to really putting the boat back to a usable state.

I want to thank my 13 year old daughter, Grace, as she took a lot of these pictures without getting in the way, using her iPadMini. She has an interest in photography, and I think she did a great job. Some of the shots were from HeadlessHula's phone as well.

Now we're stoked!!

 

[Headless hula]

That was a good day man. It really felt like we accomplished something. Definitely a milestone event in the course of the project.

 

[coolchange]

Looks great. You're lucky to have a crew like that.
Props to Grace for the technical photos!

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Looks great. You're lucky to have a crew like that.
Props to Grace for the technical photos!

You know, Rog didn't know any of these guys before this, and he said the same thing. Something to the effect of "You guys can be my crew anytime!!" I truly am lucky, and I know it.

I'll let Grace know you approve, she'll be ecstatic.

 

[Headless hula]

Looks great. You're lucky to have a crew like that.
Props to Grace for the technical photos!

Every guy on that crew has a performance boat, with maybe the exception of Erv. We're boaters! Helping boaters! Lmao....

 

[lenmann]

Wow, helluva job!

Great to have a team of like minded friends to help out as well.

Did you use all screws into the transom ply assembly or was the angle iron through bolted?

So after the angle iron and screws were removed did the transom come out/stay straight and flat?

Keep the updates coming, they have become one of one of my early week highlights...

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Every guy on that crew has a performance boat, with maybe the exception of Erv. We're boaters! Helping boaters! Lmao....

Erv has owned a number of Checkmates over the years, all of them running in the mid 70's. He's one of us....

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Wow, helluva job!

Great to have a team of like minded friends to help out as well.

Did you use all screws into the transom ply assembly or was the angle iron through bolted?

So after the angle iron and screws were removed did the transom come out/stay straight and flat?

Keep the updates coming, they have become one of one of my early week highlights...

We did not want to through bolt it in order to keep the 1808 intact on both sides.

You can definitely see where the angle iron was, it is nice and flat there. It's less than a 1/16" of warpage, nothing that won't sand off with the board file.

 

[HydroSkreamin]

After the transom install, it was time to get the rest of the structure fabricated and installed. I chose to use 3/8" marine grade plywood instead of the 1/2" and 3/4" that was originally used for the bulkheads, frames, and floor, as it would save about 100 lbs out of the boat. The floor was 70 lbs alone. In order to do this and have the strength I wanted, both sides of all pieces got covered with a layer of 1808. You would not believe the strength added to 3/8" plywood with a layer of 1808 on each side, it's stout. I'm not going for ultra-light here, I would have used composite for that, but this is within my budget and with a little thinking and effort it is pretty good strength and bang for the buck. What I can tell you is that when all of this layup was done, I weighed the original bulkheads and my bulkheads, and they were 20 lbs lighter than the originals, and all of these frames weighed 30 lbs, so all of this extra material only added 10 lbs overall. I'd say for the amount of rigidity I have over original, I'll take that 10 lbs in the very bottom of the boat! Once these were installed, not even glassed in, you would not believe the difference in sound and feel. It's impressive, and it should equate to a decent handling boat.

The original hull only had bulkheads up front, at the cabin, and each end of the fuel tanks. I decided to add frames on 2' centers, similar to those which you would see in an airplane wing to add rigidity, and add floor support overall and at the seams. Roger said this would be a lot of work, but if we were willing to put in the effort, we'd be rewarded for it in performance.

I saved a lot of large pieces of cardboard in the preceding year knowing I would need it for these templates. In retrospect, HeadlessHula has a source from a garage door installer, that would have been a better route, but I didn't know at the time, so there was a large stash of cardboard behind a table in my shop. I highly recommend not storing cardboard if you don't have to; it's cumbersome and takes up a lot of room.



After we were satisfied with the cardboard, I did transfer the shape onto some Masonite, as it is stiffer and cheap ($11/sheet), not flopping around during handling and fitting, THEN we transferred the pattern to the plywood, after the guard dog let us have the special order pieces. Too bad the forklift driver broke my interior piece....:grumble:



Here's the front bulkhead



Here's the cabin bulkhead



At this point, I had originally planned to leave the tanks on top of the floor as they were originally, but to move them back a bit. Since we were this far in, and it would actually help with room behind the side panel for storage and speakers, I decided to drop the tanks 7", making miniature frames to support a narrow floor for the tanks outside of the stringers. I moved the rear tank bulkhead back 7", but put the front tank bulkhead in its original location, giving me freedom to move the CG a little bit after we get it running.



Reasonably level...



Here's the rear frames and bulkheads cut and in location for fitment.



Here's the fronts.



Just looking at these pictures makes me think of how many times I've crawled in there and it makes me cringe....:grumble:

Now that the frames and bulkheads were cut out and fit, Crash came over with his tablesaw and router, with a handy little jig for converting his tablesaw into a router table. I bought some different router bits and modified them so the bearing would be flush with the carbide of the cutter, allowing us to use a 3/16" radius bit on 3/8" plywood without digging in or leaving a line. It worked pretty well.



We radiused the edges to allow the Marglas a positive place to locate the bulkheads before glassing.



Next I laid out various sizes and locations of holes to allow bay to bay breathing and to lighten the frames as well. When I was done, I figured Santa would have enough wooden wheels for about 8 trucks, unless some of them were duallies!



At this point, we had marked the stringers with magic marker on the centerlines every 2' from the transom. This allowed precise location, and I came up with a simple naming convention to keep the pieces in order, as they were starting to look very similar at this point. This also allowed me to keep track for counting purposes, as I needed one of everything every 2'. Here, you can see this piece is (S)tarboard, (8)foot, (I)nside of the stringer. I didn't need a forward and back side, as that is pretty self explanatory. I was very pleased with the radius job!



Here's the center pod frames. You can see at the front the bulkheads are 1' apart instead of 2'. This is because I made the decision to move the cabin bulkhead rearward 1'. It felt awkward where it was originally, a little too far forward, quite a crawl to the cabin, and I'm pretty sure its location was decided by where the 4'x8' sheets of plywood ended. I didn't have a problem shortening one piece, as I needed a 1' piece at the front bulkhead anyway, so it all worked out. The extra support in the center pod at the bulkhead was to support the focused weight when you are crawling into the cabin; I want a sturdy feel to this boat.



Here's what I refer to as the "skeleton" of the boat; kind of reminds me of bird skeleton or something. I originally was just laying things out to account for them before I took them to the HulaHut for glassing on the worktable, and realized if I put them in order I'd not only be able to account for everything, but it would make a cool picture. I stood on top of a 6' ladder to take this. It's actually one of my favorite work pics of this project, as it represents a lot of work just to get to this point. Note that all of the corners at the low points were cut off at 45[SUP]o[/SUP] to allow water drainage all the way to the bilge pumps and drains in the rear.



Once at the HulaHut, our time was spent laying out the shapes of the various pieces on scraps of 1808, marking each piece with the location ID to its respective part, although we did have to add a (F)ront and (B)ack at this point.

Here, HeadlessHula and I are laminating pieces, and yes, I have my black socks on!!



The HeadlessOne had some cool steel racks that were from a bakery or something, and were about 4' square if I remember right, and we set the pieces on the edges for curing, as well as the concrete behind his shop for the bulkheads.

Once both sides were laminated and cured, I clamped each piece to Hula's forklift and belt sanded the edges and the holes. This made them ready for placement in their permanent location. This was a ridiculous amount of work, but it definitely did add the rigidity I was looking for.

Again, special thanks to Crash and HeadlessHula!

Next installation: Installation!

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Well, if you think it's getting old handling all these small pieces, you are right! They came out like I expected, and as mentioned in the previous post, nice and light.

The plan was to basically "cement" each piece in place using Mar-Glass, a short-strand fiberglass/polyester filler. http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/3m-marson-mar-glass-short-strand-fiberglass-filler-p-10953.aspx It is handy to use as you can mix very small batches, but the downside is that the cure time is very short; about 10 minutes depending on how "hot" you mix it. My buddy Crash came over and mixed for me, after I had placed and marked all the frames in their respective locations.

We started with the front bulkhead, and I knew it was going to be good when I checked it with the digital level.



Here's a shot of the center and starboard frames glued in place, port awaiting anchoring.



I thought this was a cool shot of everything lined up. Since you'll never see it again once the floor is in, why not?



Here's a shot of the starboard tank floor fitting inside the tank supports. I'm really happy with how everything is fitting and coming out.



I wanted to add some center support where we will be walking between the front seats, so I added these vertical center braces as an afterthought. They will definitely take any flex there might have been in the span of the 3/8" floor. This is just the test fit, they will get glassed last, as it will be easier to tab the frames first, then tab the vertical center braces. I had originally wanted to do a built in cooler here, but I decided I prefer not to have doors in the floor.



After the pieces were all installed securely, it was time to add a decent fillet for the 1808 to lay into so the pieces are tabbed in, adding strength to the hull. The fillet was made with the same material the stringers were set with, polyester resin and microspheres. These in this picture were filled with a bondo spreader, then struck with a hand radiused corner on the bondo spreader. HeadlessHula had an idea to use a bag to dispense faster/less handling, then strike with the bondo spreader. Well, I cleaned out our pantry of frosting bags, then went to the store for more! I don't think the ladies were impressed... They worked great, I highly recommend them!



The dash was Swiss cheese from all of the gauges from the twin engine setup. I'm going to run a VesselView7 as the only interface to the engine, and we're going to do a cool laser cut dash with backlighting, so I ground the backside of the dash in preparation for a new slab of plywood. Here's the cut and routered piece.



Test fit successful! To add stiffness to the dash, I'm tying it to the deck as you can see here. Once it has a layer of 1808 on each side and gets tabbed to the deck, it will be very stiff. I added a rigging hole there as well.



Let's hope the fortune is accurate...

 

[Toffen Gunnufsen]

Hi!

For a job! Coming together nicely indeed

Soon spring now! I feel it my foot

Cheeers, Toffen

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Toffen, great to hear from you! Hope all is well in the frozen fjords of Norway. Can't wait to hear how your Phantom runs with the new 400R!

 

[HydroSkreamin]

With all of this heavy duty boat restomodding going on, I decided I'd better try to get as many components on hand for mock up as possible as we were moving along at a pretty good pace. I wanted to make sure we could fit everything where it made sense, or move things around now to accommodate them as best as possible.

My buddy had a nice Nordic 29 Deck boat with a kick ass stereo from Nordic, so I looked at his stereo and took pictures of all of the components and did a little background on all of them, seeing what each component's specs were, and trying to find components with similar specs that fit the areas I have available. I'm not putting together as extensive of a system as he had, but probably 2/3 of it, as I don't have the open bow.

After several evenings shopping online, I just decided "screw it" and ordered everything from Amazon. I have to say, the one stop shopping was quite easy, and everything was on my doorstep in 2 days or less!

The components are as follows:

Receiver-JBL PR175-This is a round dash unit that fits a 3-3/8" gauge hole. Weight-1.8 lbs. https://www.amazon.com/JBL-PRV-175-digital-receiver-Bluetooth/dp/B00JJXBBSY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1465625702&sr=8-1&keywords=jbl+marine+stereo

I like the simplicity, and the Bluetooth compatibility. This will allow me to drive while the teenage daughters can fight over what's playing without my input.

Amp-Polk Audio PA D5000.5-I chose this as a "middle of the road" amp, with possibility of upgrading down the road, but this will get the show on the road. I wanted a digital amp to consume less power for those hours at the sandbar, even though there will be a dedicated house battery. This will get mounted up in the cabin out of sight of the cockpit. Weight-4.4 lbs. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005ZKFZEQ?_encoding=UTF8&ref_=de_a_smtd&showDetailTechData=1#technical-data

Subs-Polk Audio db1040DVC- I got 2 of these, as I like my bass. I will bridge the speakers and run them @1ohm. These will be in boxes in the cabin as well, mounted to the bulkhead high and forward facing. Weight-9 lbs each, 18 lbs total. https://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-db1040DVC-10-Inch-Subwoofer/dp/B0016GT6OI/ref=sr_1_14?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1465617973&sr=1-14&keywords=10%22+marine+speakers

Front speakers-Infinity Reference 612m-I went with 6.5" rounds, as they will go in a coaming with drink holder on each side. They are rated for 225W peak/75W RMS. Weight-5 lbs
https://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Reference-612m-High-Performance-Loudspeaker/dp/B00292XT2I/ref=sr_1_46?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1465617550&sr=1-46&keywords=jbl+marine+speakers

Rear speakers-Infinity Reference 6912m-I got the matching 6x9's for the rear, don't know if they'll go recessed in sides above fuel tanks or in rear seat base. 300W peak/100W RMS. Weight-5 lbs
https://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Reference-6912m-High-Performance-Loudspeaker/dp/B0029Z2WZU/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1465618375&sr=1-1&keywords=6x9+marine+speakers

I may buy the matching wired remote for the head unit to be able to control the volume from the transom, as the idea of me having my phone on me in the water doesn't sound too smart. If I do get it, I'll probably make a plate for the top of the jackplate and run the wires with the engine rigging so I don't have to cut any holes in my boat for an odd shaped remote that won't be relevant in a few years.

Here it all is-



I'm happy with the total weight at 35 lbs.

If anyone has experience with this amp or any of these components, I'd love to hear about it, good or bad. I usually go to an audio store and listen to all the different components and source it there, but I didn't have time on this one.

 

[SBMech]

Man with all those bulkhead and hull supports your Daytona is going to be super bad ass!

So impressed with your project! :thumbup:

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Man with all those bulkhead and hull supports your Daytona is going to be super bad ass!

So impressed with your project! :thumbup:

Hey, SB, glad you like it. I've never done this before, but have been around a lot of race cars and stiffening the hull up just made sense to me, similar to adding a cage or a tube chassis to a car. I also understand why it's not really done unless it's a race boat. The difference in tone when you bump the hull or get into it is wild. It really does have a "ring" to it now. I've been told by a few guys now that it'll be noticeable driving it, and riding in it. I'm telling you, I can't wait!

This is taking way longer than I ever imagined, but know in my heart it is going to be worth the wait.

Thanks for following along.

 

[mesquito_creek]

All I can say is crazy ambitious and awesome!

 

[HydroSkreamin]

All I can say is crazy ambitious and awesome!

I'll agree with the crazy part! This, coming from the guy whose boat floor is nicer than my living room floor!:skull Seems you may have the disease too. We're all a little nuts, check out HeadlessHula's intake project in his thread. He's converting his mad wood skills into metal skills. Pretty neat and ambitious that his first serious aluminum welding project is an EFI plenum for his boat. I've always told him "Wood's fer burnin'!".:skull

In all seriousness, thank you, and I'm guessing by your thread and the quality we're seeing in your work, you have an understanding and appreciation for what this all takes. I always have, just was naive on what to expect under that floor. I'm so very appreciative to my buddies Crash and Headless Hula. It's pretty cool how efficient we became when working on this thing. Work and life has kept this project from rolling like it was, but we are due to put the floor in soon, and then it will go to interior. That's GOTTA happen in the next month to month and a half, or we miss our tiny window of boating here, and I will be a crabby old man!

I can't wait to see how the rest of your boat turns out, and one of these days lenmann is gonna surprise us with his project. He's paying attention....

 

[cicchetti_24]

This is incredible! I just spent the last hour reading this and totally enjoying it! You guys seem like a great group of dudes! I have zero talent, so watching guys do this who do is just mind blowing! Can't wait to see more progress :thumbsup

 

[RCDave]

Those subs and the Infinity components will sound great. Awesome project