Project StressEliminator Restomod-23 Daytona

[HydroSkreamin]

What is the sealing tape like? Is it thick? foamy? how much surface irregularity will it accommodate?

Is your resin to glass ratio about the same as open layup or can you glob it on expecting the bag to squeeze out the surplus?

I saw that you rolled the glass out to minimize any trapped air, does this have to be perfect of will the vacuum pull the air out?

Are you going to bag the glass encapsulating the foam rails?

Is that really a 30' Speedster center pod? Where do you get one of those? Pick-a-Part for boats?

Lenmann, glad you’re as excited as me about this stuff.

I’ll answer your questions in order;

Tape-it’s the consistency of Silly Putty, but kind of like butyl without the mess. It’s about the size of your pinky tip, and it’s 1/2” wide by 1/8” thick. We always attach it to a gelled surface for best adhesion and sealing. You wouldn’t believe how much of a leak path a spider crack in gel is. I could hear it whistling with the stereo off.

Here’s a new roll of Tacky Tape.

Resin amount-I didn’t apply it any more wet than normal, but I did roll it out decent, and maybe I could back off on that, but force of habit had me rolling more looking for dry spots that needed more resin than to roll excess resin out. The vacuum bagging should get it better than I can roll it.

Bagging subsequent layups-yes!

Pod-see next installment

 

[HydroSkreamin]

So, to answer @lenmann , I looked and looked at Pick-a-part, but couldn’t find the elusive 30 Speedster center pod

So, I did the next thing that came to mind; called Jake at Eliminator Boats.

Jake is aware of my science experiment, and has helped me with other things along the journey.

I spoke with Jake and Kenny about what I intended to do, and why I wanted to do them that way, and we started talking about laying up a pod from a 255 Speedster, but then I asked for some dimensions of the 30 Speedster pod that I had seen in pictures from the “In the Mold” section here.

The dimensions sounded like something I could make work, and they somehow fit building me a pod into their extremely busy production schedule. I asked that they cut it into 5’ sections for shipping, as I was going to have to splice it onto my hull anyway.

When Kenny sent me pictures of the completed and sectioned pod, I asked him if it felt weird cutting up a brand new part.... He said it sure didn’t feel normal!

They did an awesome job marking, cutting, packaging, and obviously laying up the piece.

Here’s the 5 pieces fresh out of the box

Of course I had to see how they fit together

Here’s the pieces I decided to use.

I have a very specific keel height above bottom that I’m shooting for based on talking to a number of people that own or have run different hulls with V-shaped pod running above the keels. I’ve also looked at a ton of pictures of boat bottoms and pods. Some decisions were also based on video taken from the transom and in the tunnel.

That being said, I marked the aft piece to begin fitting it for my needs.

This is within a 1/2” of what I’m shooting for.

Side view. I’m liking this...

Rear 3/4 view

Kind of fits like a glove, don’t ya think?

Since I’m happy with the first piece, tonight it’s time to get after the next piece.

We’re up to date now. More to come...

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Look what I found...

It’s the bulkheads and floor bracing. My intent is to trim the bulkhead to support the new pod.

It’s still nerve-racking cutting the bottom of your own boat out...there’s a lot of work to be done to make it a floater again.

Here’s where I stopped for the night. I’m happy with the rough-in, but can tell there’s going to be a lot of finessing to get this to fit the way I want it.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Not knowing anything about Mod-VP or Tunnel hulls, did you think about going for a true tunnel and eliminating the center pod? Or does the single engine complicate that prospect?

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Not knowing anything about Mod-VP or Tunnel hulls, did you think about going for a true tunnel and eliminating the center pod? Or does the single engine complicate that prospect?

If the boat was a tick lighter, and had more tunnel angle (compression) I’d certainly entertain cutting the pod, but even with the big notch I had the gearcase was out in the open.

I don’t think it would carry itself as a true tunnel, which is the problem I’m having now.

With the new pod running surface being parallel to the keels, the spray rail and pod lift should be there between 60-80, which is where I want to cruise and where the hop is the worst now.

I’m pretty excited to drive this thing, should be interesting. Gotta finish it first.

I took the day off and should be able to get all the pieces fit today. It’s inspiring that the destruction phase is almost over and we’ll be heading towards strength, sealing, and smoothness.

 

[Xring01]

Wow, impressive work, impressive engineering,

Thanks again for keeping us updated on your project. I love reading this thread, but I truly feel like a dumbass when it comes to understanding boats now..

 

[lenmann]

So damn cool!

And good on Eliminator for helping out too. I know they are slammed these days.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

Damn fine of jake and company. Project looks good. Now that you have increased the lift on the outer sponsons i think you will be pleasantly surprised.

This.is the best science experiment ever. Great thread.

 

[HydroSkreamin]

I’d like to thank you guys for your positive comments and for following along.

The reasons I’m documenting this are multiple:

1-For others to learn. I followed all sorts of build threads over the years before starting this project and learned a lot. I’m sharing the good and bad results of everything we’re doing on this project.

I cannot tell you how rewarding it was to read @lenmann ‘s vintage Schiada restoration thread and see what he accomplished adopting tools, materials, and methods used in this thread as well as putting some of his own touches on it. He’s done his research and understands what he’s trying to accomplish.

If there’s anything I’ve learned from this project is not to treat the obstacles as a dreaded task, but as a complete process that needs to be followed start to finish. I’m lucky to have my friend Roger to lean on to bounce ideas and questions off of. He’s proud that I’ve listened and put the work in to get results. Otherwise I have no idea why he answers his phone

2-Documentation-having this whole process documented from beginning to present all in one place with detailed information and pictures lets me go back and review things when questions arise, and rather than relying completely on my memory, I can dig back anytime over the last four years and most likely find the answer to the question. This thread is the only existing complete documentation with details. Obviously I have a lot of pictures, but without details I’m relying on my memory again.

3-Entertainment-admit it, some of you are wondering if it will ever float again, as well as if it would run decent or not. My wife vowed not to get in it last time I cut the pod out, and was pessimistic as to if it would ever float again

It’s fun to speculate on what we think certain changes will do or help, and to see if our reasoning is correct or not. My vented pod system was a gamble and a lot of work to try, but I learned from it and didn’t hide the fact that it made planing worse. After driving with it capped off for a while, if I was keeping the original pod, I’d probably make it actively controlled, because the pod definitely takes a lot more to free up in the 35-50 range. Glad I don’t have to develop that!

So, I enjoy bench racing with all of you, I guess we’ll have to enjoy a virtual beverage sometime.

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Originally, I was fitting the 30 Speedster pod onto the StressEliminator, I was starting from the rear and working forward piece by piece. After roughing all 3 pieces in, I realized the the error of my ways, and started from the other end, as there’s a lot of different shapes, curves, angles, and widths that either need to match or blend.

After multiple fitments and trims, I’m pleased with how the nose piece is getting closer to blending into the existing pod.

All of the pieces are within 1/4” of final dimension. This required some trimming on the original pod on the boat, and some trimming on the new parts.

Overall, I’m pleased with how it’s coming in. Hopefully I can get things final fit today.

My vision of what this whole thing should look like is shaping up nicely.

 

[HydroSkreamin]

I’ve spent a ridiculous amount of time fitting these parts and manipulating them to get a reasonable curvature to blend between them. Due to the curvature of my tunnel being different from the 30 Speedster, I’ve actually had to take length out of mating parts to keep the lines flowing.

Also during this process, I’m shortening the original pod as little as possible, as I want it not only for support of the new part, but to keep strength in the tunnel, as this affects rigidity of the hull. This 1/8” here and 1/8” there approach is tedious, to say the least.

I believe it’s coming in nicely, and I plan on working on the aft piece tomorrow night after work. This has definitely become my second job, but I believe that the persistence will get it done as timely as possible.

Here’s where I left off Saturday night. I don’t know if you can see the difference from previous pics, but it’s starting to look good from every angle.

Had some weather blow through, had Pandora interrupt my music to let me know there was a tornado warning in my immediate area and to take shelter. They weren’t lying, but the rotation was about 10 miles south of where I’m working on the boat. Someone got a nice picture of it over water.

Was cleaning up in my garage today and found “Medium Wally”, patterned after “Big Wally”, but covering half the surface area. I’ve been looking for this tool for weeks! Time to get some longboard paper and start leveling and filling spray rails.

 

[Duramax]

This is definitely a Shawano built boat. It recently turned 29 years old, build date of August 6, 1987.

Frozen tundra season is time to restore boats!

What a great thread, HydroSkreamin! Here is a little history for you. I was born and raised in Shawano, Wi. My grandfather and then my father owned a Chevrolet Dealership in Shawano for many years. In 1984, my father was tired of selling a few cars a month and put the dealership up for sale. In 1985, he followed an advice of his old college roomate, and got a job as CFO of a local BMW dealership here is Tucson, Az. My mother and sister and I stayed behind for a year as he saved money and purchased a home for us. In 1986, the dealership also sold, and my family and I all moved and joined my father in Tucson. The company that took over my fathers dealership was Eliminator, operating as Eliminator East. My grandfathers girlfriend was their first secretary I believe! Before we moved I would ride my bike over there and watch them layup boats, although I was sad the dealership sold, it was neat watching the boats being built. The next summer in 87' we came back for the summer and there was a Eliminator party at the County Park on the lake. I got a ride in the first triple engine cat, which I believe was a 23 like yours. I think it was at least!
Not long after, I believe Eliminator pulled out of the east coast and one of the employees splashed a hull or two and started up "Obsession Powerboats".

Thought you would enjoy that!

Great job on your boat!!

 

[98special]

Your dedication and effort is incredible. I thing it's friggin AWESOME!!!!!
A BIG PAT on the back to your friends as well!

 

[HydroSkreamin]

What a great thread, HydroSkreamin! Here is a little history for you. I was born and raised in Shawano, Wi. My grandfather and then my father owned a Chevrolet Dealership in Shawano for many years. In 1984, my father was tired of selling a few cars a month and put the dealership up for sale. In 1985, he followed an advice of his old college roomate, and got a job as CFO of a local BMW dealership here is Tucson, Az. My mother and sister and I stayed behind for a year as he saved money and purchased a home for us. In 1986, the dealership also sold, and my family and I all moved and joined my father in Tucson. The company that took over my fathers dealership was Eliminator, operating as Eliminator East. My grandfathers girlfriend was their first secretary I believe! Before we moved I would ride my bike over there and watch them layup boats, although I was sad the dealership sold, it was neat watching the boats being built. The next summer in 87' we came back for the summer and there was a Eliminator party at the County Park on the lake. I got a ride in the first triple engine cat, which I believe was a 23 like yours. I think it was at least!
Not long after, I believe Eliminator pulled out of the east coast and one of the employees splashed a hull or two and started up "Obsession Powerboats".

Thought you would enjoy that!

Great job on your boat!!

Cool story!! Don’t forget, there was “Eliminator II” before Obsession.

I’m guessing my boat was either ordered or in the mold when you attended that Eliminator party in 1987. I’m also guessing that the triple engine boat was Marv Jorgensen’s (from Chopper City in Minneapolis) or “Wild Bill’s”, also from the Twin City area. Bill still owns his, although I’ve heard it’s got triple 200XS Optimaxes bolted to the transom now.

Here’s Marv’s, and you’re correct, it’s a 23 Daytona like mine.

Thanks for sharing your story, and for the compliments on my build. I’m just the crazy scientist, my friends make it all happen with me. I’m definitely a lucky dude.

If you get back to WI look me up!

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Your dedication and effort is incredible. I thing it's friggin AWESOME!!!!!
A BIG PAT on the back to your friends as well!

Thanks much, glad you’re enjoying it. It should be pretty cool seeing what the changes do. Stay tuned!

 

[HydroSkreamin]

I put “Medium Wally” to use with some 36 grit paper applied straightening the running surface of one of the spray rail bases the other night. There’s a low spot right in the middle that needs filler, but overall the height and shape is to my liking.

Now to get the other side to this stage and start filling both. Should shape up good this weekend.

 

[Duramax]

Cool story!! Don’t forget, there was “Eliminator II” before Obsession.

I’m guessing my boat was either ordered or in the mold when you attended that Eliminator party in 1987. I’m also guessing that the triple engine boat was Marv Jorgensen’s (from Chopper City in Minneapolis) or “Wild Bill’s”, also from the Twin City area. Bill still owns his, although I’ve heard it’s got triple 200XS Optimaxes bolted to the transom now.

Here’s Marv’s, and you’re correct, it’s a 23 Daytona like mine.

View attachment 892816

Thanks for sharing your story, and for the compliments on my build. I’m just the crazy scientist, my friends make it all happen with me. I’m definitely a lucky dude.

If you get back to WI look me up!

That's the boat!!! That's it!! Wow! I was wedged in the love seat, looking back at the engines. I loved how they shook and almost growled at you. The reason I have an outboard Eliminator today is because of this boat and my fathers dealership. Thank you so, so, much!

We are planning a week stay next year at Shawano Lake. My aunt and uncle have a home on the water next to the County Park.

 

[Duramax]

I put “Medium Wally” to use with some 36 grit paper applied straightening the running surface of one of the spray rail bases the other night. There’s a low spot right in the middle that needs filler, but overall the height and shape is to my liking.

Now to get the other side to this stage and start filling both. Should shape up good this weekend.

View attachment 892821

View attachment 892823

View attachment 892824

View attachment 892825

The biggest issue on used Skaters, bigger ones at least, is the spray rail. Skaters sit on their trailer using the spray rail, and after years of sitting on wet bunks, the weight eventually pushes moisture through and the rot begins. We had to cut 10ft out of each side of mine. This looks so fantastic though, and you won't have that problem. It's going to run great!

 

[Luv2gofast]

Is that blue Dykem you're using as a guide coat? Another amazing extension to your already amazing project!! I thought that I was subscribed but somehow missed this whole chapter. I'm caught up now and won't miss another awesome minute! You are doing a great job of documenting all of these processes and most importantly the reasoning behind it. I'm riveted.

 

[HydroSkreamin]

That's the boat!!! That's it!! Wow! I was wedged in the love seat, looking back at the engines. I loved how they shook and almost growled at you. The reason I have an outboard Eliminator today is because of this boat and my fathers dealership. Thank you so, so, much!

Here’s another angle on Marvelous Marv’s triple 2.4L powered 23 Daytona

Marv went on to use those engines with a good dose of laughing gas to set the snowmobile speed record multiple times.

Marv Jorgenson | Snowmobile Hall of Fame

A speed run competition icon known throughout the sport for his many accomplishments in high-speed snowmobile performance.

www.snowmobilehalloffame.com

I’m glad I got to trigger some memories for you, that’s way cool

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Is that blue Dykem you're using as a guide coat? Another amazing extension to your already amazing project!! I thought that I was subscribed but somehow missed this whole chapter. I'm caught up now and won't miss another awesome minute! You are doing a great job of documenting all of these processes and most importantly the reasoning behind it. I'm riveted.

That is blue Dykem mixed with isopropyl alcohol, 10% Dykem and 90% alcohol. The alcohol evaporates and the Dykem remaining isn’t quite so sticky, and plugs the sandpaper less. I use one of my wife’s hairspray bottles to apply it (well, I wait until she’s done with it ) and it stretches out quite a way.

Glad you like the project. I’m pretty proud of the results after scheming, plotting and working so long on it.

I absolutely cannot wait to drive it with the changes, and you can count on it being documented here...

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Been working on blocking out both spray rails for flatness and straightness. Lots of shoulder work.

Ready for P-14 filler.

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Starboard side is filled, blocked, and filleted, ready for lamination.

We were all set to laminate on Thursday, but when Hula was Prepping for the lamination, pouring the batches of resin we would need, he discovered we were a bit short, so we elected to reconvene on Tuesday when we have enough resin.

I flattened off the port spray rail on Friday, and filled the remaining low spots. Taking the 4th of July off, will be back on it the 5th.

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Got the three layers of 1808 cut for the starboard spray rail lamination with help from the wife.

Got port rails sanded and filleted. It is really straight.

Ordered the resin from Express Composites. Will be cutting the port rail material tonight.

If the resin shows up like expected tomorrow, we’ll laminate the starboard side tomorrow night and the port side Wednesday.

 

[lenmann]

Holy crap! I thought bagging the foam was a big lamination. Three layers of 1808 that long is a serious load of resin! has the weather still not warmed up there yet or is this an early morning job now?

I see you in a residential neighborhood too. Is there less styrene stink when you vacuum bag?

I am blown away by your intestinal fortitude on this deal. You're taking big swings on major running surface modifications, huge laminations using poly resin, and just flat out going for it! Just blown away and in awe.

 

[n2otoofast4u]

It's Tuesday. Is it laminated yet?? LOL

Tell Hula we say hello, and hope things go well today!

 

[Luv2gofast]

I don't know much about layup schedules on boats so I looked up 1808 to see what it is. At almost .050 per layer of raw glass my guess is about 3/16" final thickness if you get it rung out good. Is that about right? Should be solid as a rock! I hope it goes smooth and for sure a team project to handle that much glass! Thanks for keeping the great posts coming on this project!

 

[Headless hula]

It's Tuesday. Is it laminated yet?? LOL

Tell Hula we say hello, and hope things go well today!

Im just fine and dandy.

 

[Headless hula]

There isn’t another person on the planet that I’d let do a project like this in my shop.
I also wouldn’t have this particular project happen anywhere else.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

There isn’t another person on the planet that I’d let do a project like this in my shop.
I also wouldn’t have this particular project happen anywhere else.
View attachment 896881

I was gonna say something about it being in your shop the other day. I notice the paint on the walls!! But just decided not too.. good to hear from you!

And you guys are doing a phenomenal job!!

And @HydroSkreamin is doing a great job keeping us updated!!

 

[n2otoofast4u]

There isn’t another person on the planet that I’d let do a project like this in my shop.
I also wouldn’t have this particular project happen anywhere else.
View attachment 896881

Was hoping you’d say hello. I knew it was in your shop. Hope it went down good today, this is one of the best threads on RDP.

 

[HydroSkreamin]

OK, boys and girls, not a lot of time for a full update but I want to satisfy those following this build. Getting ready for the second lamination tonight. Yes, Tuesday came and the lamination got done

Hula kicked the first batch of resin at 6:05 PM, and with four guys full time on the boat and Hula mixing resin and filling in wherever necessary, we were off the boat prepping for bagging at 6:51 PM. Seven 24 oz batches of resin were used.

I forgot to mention that we installed air conditioning in the shop and it does a great job of keeping it cool. I’d really be nervous if we were working in outside temps, as it’s been hovering around 90° and 70-80% humidity (or more!)

I can’t thank my crew enough, this was a first shot at bagging an exterior surface and I couldn’t be any happier.

Lamination in process

Getting the bag situated

Pulling 19” of vacuum

Resin catch reservoir

Bag fully pulled down, resin pulling through the peel ply and bleeder cloth

Finished product, front view. I probably didn’t leave enough bag to stretch over the entire awkward shape at the front, and it didn’t pull down all the way, causing this resin puddle on the bottom surface. This will be addressed when I start doing finish work.

Finished product, rear view. Looks awesome in person; hopefully pictures do it justice.

Lather, rinse, repeat for the other side.

Cross your fingers it works that way...

 

[HydroSkreamin]

We were short two guys from the previous evening, so I called up my old pal Eddie. We used to race, modify, and ride snowmobiles together in the 80’s and 90’s, but live just far enough apart now that we usually only get together 3-4 times per year.

Well, I called Eddie up and told him he’s playing first string tonight, get off that bench and get warmed up! He drove 2 hours to help me on this heap, and helped me cut all of the bagging and lamination material. With this better preparation on my part, even though we only had four guys, we actually had the lamination done and vacuum pulled on the bag in one hour! Prep really is everything on this deal, right down to how accurately you fit and cut everything.

Bag installed, pulling vacuum after the lamination.

Peeling off the bag, peel ply, and bleeder cloth after everything exothermed

Peel ply after everything kicked. Think of this as the screen to allow resin out

Bleeder cloth full of resin. Think of this as the flow path for resin to follow the bag to the vacuum port

Side view of the rail profile

Front 3/4 view

And then there were two!

Trying to show straightness from the front view

Trying to show straightness from the rear view

Overall, I’m ecstatic with how this came out. Persistence and diligence do pay off, but the real credit goes to my friends who have absolutely no reason to show up and get full of resin, other than they’re my friends. I’ve helped all of them over the years, and appreciate their friendship and comraderie.

Back on the pod. Let’s get this thing done...

 

[monkeyswrench]

Holy crap! That is a massive science project going on...i didn't know you could bag like that either. Learn a lot looking at what the smarter people do.

Learning more about tunnels and their miscellaneous designs as well.

 

[Luv2gofast]

You got me looking up bleeder cloth, peel ply and bagging videos...that led to carbon fiber and next thing I know it's dinner time and the day is gone! Thanks for sparking my interest in a completely new field' Your project is coming along nicely!!

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Holy crap! I thought bagging the foam was a big lamination. Three layers of 1808 that long is a serious load of resin! has the weather still not warmed up there yet or is this an early morning job now?

I see you in a residential neighborhood too. Is there less styrene stink when you vacuum bag?

I am blown away by your intestinal fortitude on this deal. You're taking big swings on major running surface modifications, huge laminations using poly resin, and just flat out going for it! Just blown away and in awe.

lenmann, sorry I didn’t respond to this sooner; I’ve been burning the candle at both ends.

To answer your temperature question, we’ve had record consecutive days above 90°, which in tundra land is warm. If we weren’t in the air conditioned shop, early morning laminations would definitely be necessary. I always wonder how the AZ, CA, and FL boatbuilders do it. I’m guessing more people is the key.

As to your styrene question, it’s obviously the same while you’re laying it up. The thing we’ve seen with the bagging process is if we leave and let it kick and run up the road for burger and a beer, when we come back there’s a fog in the shop. At this point we open the garage door and let that out before re-entering. I’m pretty sure that’s not something you want in your lungs.

As far as process difficulty, you are correct, we are swinging for it; thanks for noticing! It is coming out really nice, and since it is a running surface, I’d like to make sure it all stays intact, and I feel this is really a great bonding insurance policy.

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Holy crap! That is a massive science project going on...i didn't know you could bag like that either. Learn a lot looking at what the smarter people do.

I don’t know about including myself in the smarter people; I like to hang with people smarter than me. You wouldn’t believe what you can learn when you’re the dumbest guy in the room!

 

[HydroSkreamin]

You got me looking up bleeder cloth, peel ply and bagging videos...that led to carbon fiber and next thing I know it's dinner time and the day is gone! Thanks for sparking my interest in a completely new field' Your project is coming along nicely!!

Glad we piqued your interest in the process. That’s the whole point of this thread. Documenting it has been fun, and I’m by no means an expert, but am learning along the way as well.

 

[monkeyswrench]

I don’t know about including myself in the smarter people; I like to hang with people smarter than me. You wouldn’t believe what you can learn when you’re the dumbest guy in the room!

One of the smartest men I ever knew had met Einstein, and worked with Wernher Von Braun. Guy was F'ing amazing. He always told me that you should try to keep learning everyday. Anything new is a gain, no matter how trivial.

Being the dumbest guy in the room gives you the chance to be the one who learns the most

 

[lenmann]

Those rails came out really nice, and from a structural perspective they are bullet proof. You've got a great crew of friends there, really the only way this could happen.

All of my glass work is done (thank god), but I will admit I feel myself wanting something I can try vacuum bagging. You make it look pretty easy.

Cant wait for the next chapter, keep up the great work!

 

[HydroSkreamin]

To be truthful, the idea of bagging these laminations wasn’t mine, it was Roger’s. He offered up his pump and told me what components I needed to get, and I did the math and bought them.

Some of that was a pain because the bag material doesn’t come in the length I needed, so you can see the splice in pictures of each lamination we did.

The lamination itself is really the easy part, the major time involved is all in the quality of the surface prep and accurately cutting your materials. Cutting these weird shapes takes two people, one to hold the pieces in place and another to get the material to hug the corners and lay properly for marking, then cutting and storing each layer without disturbing or stretching the crap out of it. You want everything to lay exactly as you have cut it so the overlap and edges end up where they’re supposed to.

The first thing you have to establish is where the bag tape will run, then the bag shape and size, then for this situation, the 5 layers of material; 3 layers of 1808, each 2” wider than the previous, and the bleeder and the peel ply. It’s a lot of fitting, marking, cutting, and storing. Working fast it takes about 2-1/2 hours for these 20’ laminations to mark and cut material. As opposed to the hour to laminate and bag. Let’s not even get into surface prep . Grinding is time consuming.

Grinding is the next step on the pod. The pod pieces themselves need to be ground where they’ll be tabbed together and where they’ll be tabbed onto the hull.

After that I’ll be making internal braces out of my remaining foam. Once each piece is individually suspended exactly where it needs to be, I’ll tab the joints of the pod together to make it one unit.

Then I’ll remove the complete unit, grind the snot out of it on the inside and do multiple layers of tabbing internally to put some strength back in it.

Then we’ll bond it onto the hull.

So when someone asks me how much longer, what do you tell them, having never performed this operation? I’ve learned to say “I don’t know”, and “When it’s done”.

I’ll let you know when it’s done

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Ok, back on it. Had some guests from out of state this weekend and enjoyed seeing them, but didn’t get anything done in the last 4 days.

Just to be safe before I start grinding the gel on these pieces, I decided to wipe them again with wax and grease remover, just to ensure that I don’t grind any wax right into the fiberglass and create any bonding issues. Just for safe measure, I hit each piece 3 times, each time with a fresh rag.

After the thorough cleaning, I set each piece in its designated location and shimmed them so the keel is even for the last 9’. It wasn’t a dimension that I was shooting for specifically, but I did want 8’ or longer, so we’re in business.

I marked off both sponson keels in 1’ increments from the wetted transom so that I can repeat measurements as I’m final fitting the pieces. Everything is currently shimmed within 1/16” over the last 9’.

Hopefully you can see the last three panels lining up; the fit between part one and two will definitely need massaging, but it’ll come right in line when I get after it.

Trying to show a close-up of the keel over the last three pieces, as well as part match-up. I think we can work with this!

 

[lenmann]

Looking good man, the fit up is coming in really nice. Whats your theory on the planned height of the pod and how its going to effect the porpoising deal?

I am really looking forward to see how you go about supporting the underside (or is it the topside?) of the pod before you glass it in place. I gotta believe it will see some pretty good loads as the boat starts to plane and pack air.

As always, thanks for the ride.

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Looking good man, the fit up is coming in really nice. Whats your theory on the planned height of the pod and how its going to effect the porpoising deal?

My plan is to have the pod dried up by about 5 mph beyond the end of the current porpoise speed. I have photos of what height the boat is at from the side, and can determine where it is running at that speed.

If anything, I might get it a little high, but remember the spray rails will add lift, even though they are not riding directly on the horizontal surface at that speed, but will be adding lift just from the water running up the inside of the sponson and hitting it. The spray rails will also direct that water out from touching the tops of the tunnel, which will also relieve some drag.

I'm also adding reflex (think chine or strake) to the outside edge of the pod, to do a similar job as the spray rail; adding lift. The trick is to not make it too harsh so it slams when in rougher water. I'm also putting a bit of downward angle on it to reflect the water back down and keep it off the tunnel. If the water from the pod reflex and the water from the spray rails intersect in the middle of the tunnel, it acts like it's packing more air because water is denser than air. The exact reason you don't want to ride up someone's roost. This would be a bit more controlled than that. Remember, this old girl doesn't have the tunnel angle of the newer cats, so it doesn't have the gound effect that the steeper angle has on the newer designs.

I am really looking forward to see how you go about supporting the underside (or is it the topside?) of the pod before you glass it in place. I gotta believe it will see some pretty good loads as the boat starts to plane and pack air.

That support is exactly what I'm working on next. I'm just making foam bulkheads like the plywood ones inside the original pod, and 'glassing them in on the outside of the pod. So the strength added inside the original pod is part of the equation as well.

Hope this makes sense. We'll see if practice follows theory

 

[Luv2gofast]

So not sure if it will help but I spliced a new LF 1/4 corner on a Lotus Europa many years ago and the way I got it aligned was to carefully shim it up like you have done then pop riveted strips over the seams. That allowed me to grind the back side and tab it half way through without it moving. I then removed the strips and ground/glassed the top the other half way through. I used strips of the edge that I had trimmed off of the old part to pop rivet because it matched the contours of the fender and nose/hood lip. It kept everything in place and lined up the top surfaces perfect so required very little finishing. Just thought it might spark an idea for you to make the sectioned tunnel back into one piece.

 

[lenmann]

So, you wrapped up your advanced degree in hydrodynamics up in Madison over this past winter?

You are taking it to a whole new level here, I love that your sharing it so we can all learn little bit as you take us along. I am glued to every technical thread on RDP and this one is amazing for the detail you are providing and the fact that you aren't just restoring a boat, you're reengineering it.

Thanks again.

 

[HydroSkreamin]

So not sure if it will help but I spliced a new LF 1/4 corner on a Lotus Europa many years ago and the way I got it aligned was to carefully shim it up like you have done then pop riveted strips over the seams. That allowed me to grind the back side and tab it half way through without it moving. I then removed the strips and ground/glassed the top the other half way through. I used strips of the edge that I had trimmed off of the old part to pop rivet because it matched the contours of the fender and nose/hood lip. It kept everything in place and lined up the top surfaces perfect so required very little finishing. Just thought it might spark an idea for you to make the sectioned tunnel back into one piece.

I’m doing something similar to what you did, but I happen to have gravity on my side (for once!!) and plan on just tabbing the pieces together right in place to get placement (length, height, centered), then remove the newly joined pod after full curing and grind scarf joints at each joint and put 4-6 layers at each joint, building them back to original thickness.

If I have to resort to mechanical means of fastening, I will, but am trying to not have to repair anything other than what I’ve already wrecked...

 

[HydroSkreamin]

So, you wrapped up your advanced degree in hydrodynamics up in Madison over this past winter?

You are taking it to a whole new level here, I love that your sharing it so we can all learn little bit as you take us along. I am glued to every technical thread on RDP and this one is amazing for the detail you are providing and the fact that you aren't just restoring a boat, you're reengineering it.

Thanks again.

This is second semester hydrodynamics except there’s no classroom, just real world experiments.

I’m lucky to have contacts that allow me to bounce crazy ideas off them, and once in a while I get a raised eyebrow or a perplexed look; then I know I asked the right question ...

This entire thread is a documentation with a bunch of rambling and life journey interjected. Hopefully I’ve thought things through thoroughly and come to a viable conclusion. I’ll share the results regardless of the outcome.

After all this effort and time, let’s hope I was paying attention in the lab session, because I believe this experiment counts toward my entire grade!

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Here’s an overview of the pod exactly where I intend it to end up, minus a trim of the last piece.

Setting height. Dummy styrofoam is cut for test fitting. Looks good, so I’ll cut the real deal from the structural foam, marking where each piece goes and laminating them inside the pod. Then when I go to set the pod on, I’ll put wetted CSM on the interfacing surfaces and lay the pod in place with weights strategically placed for initial bonding.

These bulkheads will be 2” thick and placed about every 2’. I believe this will give me plenty of support for the pod running surface. Once that’s cured, we’ll bag the remaining layers on each side and the rear.

The intent of using the V-shaped pod is for better ride in rougher water, and to dry out easier at speed without the suction I’ve got going on right now.

 

[HydroSkreamin]

Well, I’ve been thoroughly getting my ass kicked.

After taking the time to make support pieces from regular insulation styrofoam and then transferring them to structural foam, the structural foam doesn’t have the compression that insulation foam does, so I ended up making them multiple times.

Previously I’d push down on each part to set it in its place, but it was compressing on the boat surface AND the pod surface, making it seem like it fit, but really it was just confirming to the cracks and crevices it needed to. Remember, the inside of the pod is a laminated part (B-side) with irregularities. After grinding lumps and seams out, I had a surface that was more true and would conform to a saw cut.

All I’m going to say is it’s harder to suspend a part accurately in space than you think...

Anyway, each piece is fit and supported to be centered and at height, so now I can grind the gel off of the surfaces we’ll be laminating, and I’ve also already started grinding the scarf joints on the inside.

My intent is to grind the external joints and tab the pod pieces where they lie currently with CSM, just to lock the location to each other. After curing, I’ll attach a 2x10 on edge externally right on the keel of the pod. This hopefully will keep the angular relationship of each piece, so when I remove it from the boat, flip it over and laminate the scarf joints, everything will stay reasonably in place. I fully expect some shrinkage, but am trying to minimize it.

Here’s the internal support bulkheads to keep the old pod walls from flexing and to add vertical support for the new pod. These will get filleted and laminated in. Because of the previously mentioned irregular surface, I made these about 4 times, because I would cut one either at a slightly wrong angle, or just a bit too short

Here’s a shot of the support for the rearmost piece. Because the Vee isn’t centered perfectly in the part and the angles are just slightly different, I probably made 3 of these.
Probably shouldn’t have a machinist mind for working on this stuff...

Here’s all of the pieces of the pod suspended and located where they’re supposed to be. Hopefully they stay exactly like this when I join them.

I have to say, I am pleased to finally get to this phase. My vision is becoming a reality.