Pool Build Thread

[E4L]

True. I knew I'd explain it wrong. Glad these guys set it straight.

I really just asked because I was wondering if you were going for that look.

Didn't know any different I had seen the different contrast before but I think it looks cleaner solid

 

[VoodooMedMan]

If you have no coping it never gets ugly and you never have to replace it ....am I missing something here? And this "in NorCal" stuff is starting to piss me off. A pool is a pool whether it's in Havasu or here. We do coping here as well.

No. Just saying some people change their minds. I didn't mean anything about NorCal other than like here it's not the face of the sun. Havasu is and these guys out there are changing to travertine and stuff because cement is too hot and cool deck sucks. Problems that aren't typical in NorCal or SoCal.

I think monolithic provides a really nice modern look. Was just wondering if that was what he was doing. He asked and I tried to explain but did so wrong. You and Aqua Holics jumped in and set it straight. I shoulda just waited. I wouldn't doubt seeing another explanation from MYV too.

 

[E4L]

Well two reasons I think it looks cleaner flowing together and the other actually cost more money.

 

[CobraDave]

My coping and deck were to separate pours. I was going for a seamless look I didn't really know what I wanted. No coping is the look I wanted but I think there is a benefit from actually doing a coping? [emoji848]

 

[Melloyellovector]

Okay okay, I was staying out of this. People like em both ways. Both ways if done correct can work and look great.
I will say yes in a perfect world the pool should not move. The reality is they can and do. The deck can and does. Every structure built regardless of what it is has the potential for some differential movement ( side to side, up and or down). The thickness of walls, floor, rebar, cement all has nothing to do wether a structure will move. Preparing soil can and will help, but on a residential pool show me any builder that over excavates and back fills unless he's required by city or soils report to do so. That's ridiculous and a waste of time and money. If a pool is dug and soil looks to be all matching, pool is built with details to match soil conditions. Most common problem is expansive soil, cut fill transitions, and hillsides, and worst case of all liquefaction. Now with a cantilever deck, any movement in deck resting on pool structure that doesn't move deck fails, any movement in pool and deck doesn't move deck fails. In both cases even with mastic under cantilever edge between waterline tile and deck, usually at some point that gap is compressed and you'll start popping tiles off the walls Both of those tend to happen most in hillside pools where pool is at top of slope. Usually in most pool movement the plumbing isn't sheering off because the pool movement is from soil movement, meaning plumbing and structure usually move at same rates. My personal preference is to have separate coping. Mainly because over time if cantilever face cracks, chips, etches from pool chems, etc..., the only fix is to cut out a section of deck and re pour. If separate coping you can remove one piece, and set or pour new piece and be done. The draw back to separate pour in place, it costs more money for separate pour, form etc. and potential to have coping pieces break or separate from bond beam, and if colored cement likely you will never get a true match.
So there's draw backs to both, E4L you like the look of cantilever deck go with it, the only opinion that matters is yours, your the one looking at it daily, build your dream. Separate thread but Grads get on plane ya big fu$&in vagina

 

[Waterjunky]

Hello all;

I have been following this thread with interest for a while now. I am hoping to be doing a pool in the near future. At the moment I am just working with an above ground metal sided pool. This talk ground instability and shifting pool stuff has got me a little worried about what I want to do. So, I am not trying to highjack this thread but wanted some input on this subject. I am on flat ground and in general the ground it reasonably stable, but it is a high organic matter soil (Remember I am in the Delta). The real issue I see is that I have a water table that seasonally varies from 4'-5' down to 2'-3' in the winter. How do the experts here feel that will effect the stability of the pool and also how the heck do you pour in those conditions? I know it can be done because other people near me with the same issue have non-fiberglass pools.

 

[Melloyellovector]

Hello all;

I have been following this thread with interest for a while now. I am hoping to be doing a pool in the near future. At the moment I am just working with an above ground metal sided pool. This talk ground instability and shifting pool stuff has got me a little worried about what I want to do. So, I am not trying to highjack this thread but wanted some input on this subject. I am on flat ground and in general the ground it reasonably stable, but it is a high organic matter soil (Remember I am in the Delta). The real issue I see is that I have a water table that seasonally varies from 4'-5' down to 2'-3' in the winter. How do the experts here feel that will effect the stability of the pool and also how the heck do you pour in those conditions? I know it can be done because other people near me with the same issue have non-fiberglass pools.

The pool would be engineered to match your soil conditions. Don't let fear of potential movement be deciding factor. Those are worst case scenarios. But can and do happen. The point I was making of movement, in most cases as little as 1/8-1/4in. 99% of the time one would never know otherwise. Flat areas tend to be safe. Top or toe of slopes are usually most common for movement. As far as building w high water table, costs will go up. But still very do able. When we dig near ocean many times below sea level, and lake side pools where pool floor below lake level. We dig a hole throw basically a bucket with holes with pump in it, with a line plumbed to waste. Fill with gravel and plug in pump. It will turn on and run as long as water remains. If water enters faster than pump we add more pumps. Pumps are left in ground and working until pool Shotcrete or Gunite. We usually will over excavate the pool and throw another pump in, 3/4 rock the entire floor. So now it not a swamp in floor, able to plumb and do steel etc. The shell would likely be shot with 6-12in weeper holes so ground water can enter the pool until it's ready for plaster. At plaster they would install a hydrostatic valve, to let ground water enter pool if pool ever emptied later. Basically it's a check valve that would let ground water in if empty but closes when pool level is higher then ground water. This releases the pressures put on the structure and keeps the pool from popping out of the ground. The pool once full equalizes pressures from water table. Soooooo it can and is done.

 

[Waterjunky]

Interesting, so the idea is just to de-water the hole as everything is done. That could be entertaining to see in its own right given the soils and that I am only a couple of hundred yards from the Sacramento River. De-watering is not as simple here as in other areas. My well is only about 15 or 20 feet of 3" pipe perforated on the last 6-10', driven into the ground sometime in the 50's. I regularly pull 20+ gpm out of it for hours at a time. I'm just thinking of how to do that on a pool scale, that could be a big pump.......... I think I would have to talk to my neighbor about "disposal" of water into his alfalfa field. That could run irrigation for a few acres.

 

[GRADS]

Interesting, so the idea is just to de-water the hole as everything is done. That could be entertaining to see in its own right given the soils and that I am only a couple of hundred yards from the Sacramento River. De-watering is not as simple here as in other areas. My well is only about 15 or 20 feet of 3" pipe perforated on the last 6-10', driven into the ground sometime in the 50's. I regularly pull 20+ gpm out of it for hours at a time. I'm just thinking of how to do that on a pool scale, that could be a big pump.......... I think I would have to talk to my neighbor about "disposal" of water into his alfalfa field. That could run irrigation for a few acres.

I've built quite a few pools on the river so it can be done. One thing that will happen before you start building is the county will come out and set a benchmark as to what the minimum elevation of the pool can be. You might have to end up building up the yard to install it.

 

[Ziggy]

What about elevating the pool some? As in the side walls are 18-24" above grade.

 

[E4L]

Sign my contract tomorrow can't wait for this new journey in life. It will be different I have been on a boat my whole life.

 

[VoodooMedMan]

Sign my contract tomorrow can't wait for this new journey in life. It will be different I have been on a boat my whole life.

Very very cool. Different but so nice to be right there. Congrats.

 

[Melloyellovector]

Interesting, so the idea is just to de-water the hole as everything is done. That could be entertaining to see in its own right given the soils and that I am only a couple of hundred yards from the Sacramento River. De-watering is not as simple here as in other areas. My well is only about 15 or 20 feet of 3" pipe perforated on the last 6-10', driven into the ground sometime in the 50's. I regularly pull 20+ gpm out of it for hours at a time. I'm just thinking of how to do that on a pool scale, that could be a big pump.......... I think I would have to talk to my neighbor about "disposal" of water into his alfalfa field. That could run irrigation for a few acres.

As complicated as you think it is, it's not that difficult. I can guarantee you building in sand near ocean is more difficult then delta. 20gpm is fountain pump flow rates , with multiple pumps were typically pulling 200gpm plus, and that's with traditional pumps, we can break out the commercial stuff and pull 650gpm + if needed.

And yes raising pool is an option and may be required, if your truly interested talk to a local builder in your area, they should be able to explain options avail for your conditions

 

[VoodooMedMan]

Yeah. Talk to Grads. He's the NorCal expert. [emoji16]

 

[skav]

What about elevating the pool some? As in the side walls are 18-24" above grade.

I like this look. Our pool will have a 12" raised bond beam around the perimeter with an 18" raised bond beam at the spa.

I'll post pictures when the coping start going in.

 

[E4L]

Pulling a permit Monday

 

[E4L]

 

[VoodooMedMan]

View attachment 476725

Way cool. Is that tanning bench a spot that comes up higher to only 9 inches deep?

 

[Ziggy]

Way cool. Is that tanning bench a spot that comes up higher to only 9 inches deep?

I'd guess it's the equivalent to a Baja Shelf.

 

[VoodooMedMan]

I'd guess it's the equivalent to a Baja Shelf.

Yeah it's just that the words "tanning bench" are in a rectangle but with no depth measurement. I was wondering if it was just notating the entire shelf that is at -21 or if that spot raised to -9 for s couple chairs.

MYV made a great point earlier in the thread. -9 is where it's at for putting lounge chairs.

Like this plan I stayed with -21 as my daughter is going to have a blast up there. Seems to me -21 is great for kids and just fine for upright chairs. -9 is the ticket for an adult pool and laying out in lounge chairs.

Either way just wondering what that meant. Real nice looking design E4L has.

 

[Melloyellovector]

Yeah it's just that the words "tanning bench" are in a rectangle but with no depth measurement. I was wondering if it was just notating the entire shelf that is at -21 or if that spot raised to -9 for s couple chairs.

MYV made a great point earlier in the thread. -9 is where it's at for putting lounge chairs.

Like this plan I stayed with -21 as my daughter is going to have a blast up there. Seems to me -21 is great for kids and just fine for upright chairs. -9 is the ticket for an adult pool and laying out in lounge chairs.

Either way just wondering what that meant. Real nice looking design E4L has.

The -21 is the baja, tanning shelf, same thing. The box around note is just to highlight note, not a seperate area
Engineers require baja, steps, beach entries etc to be at min 18in dig depth in ground. So to raise back up to -9 costs more money because it has to be solid Shotcrete/Gunite to get back up to that depth, that is why most builders put at -21 to save on build costs. Both ways are correct, just depends on budget and expectations of use.
E4L congrats, nice design :thumbsup

 

[E4L]

Thanks guys and as everyone says its at 21. This pool is for the kids.

My pool has a swim up bar pueblo bonito emerald bay Mazatlan Mexico.

 

[FlatNv]

I like this look. Our pool will have a 12" raised bond beam around the perimeter with an 18" raised bond beam at the spa.

I'll post pictures when the coping start going in.

this is what we did:thumbsup

 

[skav]

Your ahead of us now. We were ready to shoot gunite last Thursday but the county engineer stopped by and didn't like the retaining wall and turned everything into a major cluster. We had 8' to slope for the 6' wall and he wanted 8' back from the bottom of the back side.

I was like really? What's the point of a retaining wall then!



A couple day at the Buiilding department and we are back on track again.

The trucks rolled up at 6:45am and just left at 6:00pm. Talk about a long day!




I'm ready to say screw it to the rest and fill it up this weekend

We're still pushing hard for the second week of May.

 

[E4L]

Permit was requested Tuesday still waiting hopping to have approval tomorrow. Everyone has came to mark the utilities except for pge and electricity. Bought a pool fence of the neighbor score[emoji41]

 

[Melloyellovector]

Your ahead of us now. We were ready to shoot gunite last Thursday but the county engineer stopped by and didn't like the retaining wall and turned everything into a major cluster. We had 8' to slope for the 6' wall and he wanted 8' back from the bottom of the back side.

I was like really? What's the point of a retaining wall then!

View attachment 477910

A couple day at the Buiilding department and we are back on track again.

The trucks rolled up at 6:45am and just left at 6:00pm. Talk about a long day!

View attachment 477911
View attachment 477912

I'm ready to say screw it to the rest and fill it up this weekend

We're still pushing hard for the second week of May.

Why didn't you just shoot raised bond beam on pool new grade level wouldn't of required anything other than 75 buck detail, more steel, and more Shotcrete?? Then run your retaining walls into each corner of pool where bond beam ended, Prolly could of saved some money and head aches w city. Or are you building wall set back from pool to carry deck between wall and pool?

 

[Rsqfxr]

Looks nice, my gunite starts tomorrow, had a slight delay with weather and inspection

 

[E4L]

Permit has been approved [emoji120][emoji120][emoji106][emoji106][emoji1340][emoji1340][emoji1340]

 

[VoodooMedMan]

Permit has been approved [emoji120][emoji120][emoji106][emoji106][emoji1340][emoji1340][emoji1340]

We're there any issues or is your process just not over the counter?

 

[E4L]

We're there any issues or is your process just not over the counter?

Well any builder has to pull a permit so it's legal. So maybe I don't understand your question.

 

[VoodooMedMan]

Well any builder has to pull a permit so it's legal. So maybe I don't understand your question.

Wondering why it took a few days for approval. Lots of cities are over the counter for a pool permit. I walked in got sent to the zoning counter for their check and then I went back to building and the engineer had me write in a couple things and then stamped approved. Went to cashier and paid. All in all about 15 minutes.

Maybe your city doesn't do that. Not all do. Just wondering if that's the case or if they didn't like something that took a few days for approval.

 

[E4L]

3 days is a blessing where I live they have waited up to three weeks before

 

[Melloyellovector]

3 days for most cities is a blessing, over the counter isn't as common as you think. Iv got 2 currently in la Habra that were submitted in December, 1 just approved last week still waiting on the other. City of LA Iv had take as long as a year for permit.

 

[VoodooMedMan]

3 days for most cities is a blessing, over the counter isn't as common as you think. Iv got 2 currently in la Habra that were submitted in December, 1 just approved last week still waiting on the other. City of LA Iv had take as long as a year for permit.

Yikes. Certainly sounds like LA isn't exactly quick to get anything done.

 

[VoodooMedMan]

3 days is a blessing where I live they have waited up to three weeks before

Very cool. Was just wondering and hoping you didn't have any issues.

As you can see by MYV over the counter apparently isn't that common.

Glad it's going forward smoothly.

Finishing up some other projects in the back and I can post some more pics. Dealing with neighbors and walls and Samoans sucks. Built a whole dang pool faster.

 

[BHC Vic]

Very cool. Was just wondering and hoping you didn't have any issues.

As you can see by MYV over the counter apparently isn't that common.

Glad it's going forward smoothly.

Finishing up some other projects in the back and I can post some more pics. Dealing with neighbors and walls and Samoans sucks. Built a whole dang pool faster.

That island guy was a handful too [emoji16][emoji12]

 

[Melloyellovector]

Very cool. Was just wondering and hoping you didn't have any issues.

As you can see by MYV over the counter apparently isn't that common.

Glad it's going forward smoothly.

Finishing up some other projects in the back and I can post some more pics. Dealing with neighbors and walls and Samoans sucks. Built a whole dang pool faster.

I hope your not talking about Samoan contractors! If so for any of them within a 50 mile radius good luck.
Out of 50 plus I know of maybe 2 that do quality work. The rest :yikes

 

[VoodooMedMan]

That island guy was a handful too [emoji16][emoji12]

That was a bro deal. Can't complain. I might be late tomorrow though as payback. [emoji23]

 

[Rsqfxr]

Here is the latest

 

[VoodooMedMan]

I hope your not talking about Samoan contractors! If so for any of them within a 50 mile radius good luck.
Out of 50 plus I know of maybe 2 that do quality work. The rest :yikes

Biggest problem stemmed from neighbors. I just wanted vinyl. Neighbor to south wanted block. Settled on block in back and then the portion between houses as vinyl and he kicked in first 500 on block. Got a recommendation for this guy with a good price and couldn't get other guys to call back. Neighbor was doing this. I wanted an extra row of block and a cap on back wall to further obscure view of not so nice neighborhood on other side. The work has actually been good. Just slooooow. They freaking work on island time.

Now my vinyl guy is awesome and all the pool stuff was great. Got a great roofer too that changed our patio covers from lattice to solid and roofed.

Vic built an island and I've got a guy to tile it. Got a great painter we've used for 10 years. When he finishes off the patio covers and my wife does her landscaping the yard will be good to go for years.

Good thing because with my new job I won't have time for any of this.

 

[BHC Vic]

That was a bro deal. Can't complain. I might be late tomorrow though as payback. [emoji23]

[emoji15]

 

[VoodooMedMan]

[emoji15]

You might be able to bribe me. [emoji16]

 

[VoodooMedMan]

this is what we did:thumbsup

View attachment 476861

Are you putting in a bunch of those in floor cleaners or something?

 

[CobraDave]

A little motivation. Just cleaned the pool. It's a three beer job btw.

Drinking College street beer for the occasion.

Looks great so far!

 

[ONE-A-DAY]

Making some progress, finally

 

[Melloyellovector]

Biggest problem stemmed from neighbors. I just wanted vinyl. Neighbor to south wanted block. Settled on block in back and then the portion between houses as vinyl and he kicked in first 500 on block. Got a recommendation for this guy with a good price and couldn't get other guys to call back. Neighbor was doing this. I wanted an extra row of block and a cap on back wall to further obscure view of not so nice neighborhood on other side. The work has actually been good. Just slooooow. They freaking work on island time.

Now my vinyl guy is awesome and all the pool stuff was great. Got a great roofer too that changed our patio covers from lattice to solid and roofed.

Vic built an island and I've got a guy to tile it. Got a great painter we've used for 10 years. When he finishes off the patio covers and my wife does her landscaping the yard will be good to go for years.

Good thing because with my new job I won't have time for any of this.

Wall guy, if Samoan, I'd suggest if not to late, do not pay a dime til complete, they're famous for taking the money and running. Your back wall should have been able to be built demo and new in 2 - 3 days start to finish

 

[VoodooMedMan]

Wall guy, if Samoan, I'd suggest if not to late, do not pay a dime til complete, they're famous for taking the money and running. Your back wall should have been able to be built demo and new in 2 - 3 days start to finish

Thanks. It's all done except for the cap. Being finished tomorrow. If not then off to file a complaint with the CSCLB to light a fire.

 

[Melloyellovector]

Thanks. It's all done except for the cap. Being finished tomorrow. If not then off to file a complaint with the CSCLB to light a fire.

At least it's pretty much done
Cslb, lol, I think I know of 1 Samoan out this way that's actually licensed.
Fingers crossed they come back on cap for ya, also look and make sure they filled all cells with vert bars in it ( as in if you didn't see it done, knock on areas you know have vert bars and make sure solid all the way down and cement bond beam entire top. Otherwise you don't have a wall, you have blocks stacked pretty
Not trying to scare, I'm just very familiar with all the Samoan Tongan guys out here

 

[VoodooMedMan]

At least it's pretty much done
Cslb, lol, I think I know of 1 Samoan out this way that's actually licensed.
Fingers crossed they come back on cap for ya, also look and make sure they filled all cells with vert bars in it ( as in if you didn't see it done, knock on areas you know have vert bars and make sure solid all the way down and cement bond beam entire top. Otherwise you don't have a wall, you have blocks stacked pretty
Not trying to scare, I'm just very familiar with all the Samoan Tongan guys out here

Cars says licensed and insured. Could be BS.

But yeah thanks for the tips. The wall that was built the definitely did that. And the back wall either code was different back when it was built or shortcuts were taken. So after they added another row to the top they filled the wall vertically with the required spacing.

Two complaints. Slow as molasses and messy.

Neighbors. Gotta deal with it staying in SoCal.

 

[GRADS]

VoodooWallMan.