Plumbing valve question

[WYRD]

Working on changing a fiberglass tub/shower to a full stand-up. Took out the tub and there's this large hole in the slab where the drain is. Is that normal?

Also for the mix-it valve are these Universal or do I have to stick with the brand that was put in there originally. It's a Moen but would we be able to use other brands so I don't have to swap the valve out to change the handle type?

 

[Backlash]

Solid work on that drain! I wouldn't say that's normal.

Why not just heat the fittings, or cut the pipe above, and pull the valve, and replace it with the one you want?

 

[WYRD]

Solid work on that drain! I wouldn't say that's normal.

Why not just heat the fittings, or cut the pipe above, and pull the valve, and replace it with the one you want?

Because I'm an electrician not a plumber. I'm sure I could get it soldered but I wouldn't trust my work buried behind a wall of brand new tile.

 

[lbhsbz]

Because I'm an electrician not a plumber. I'm sure I could get it soldered but I wouldn't trust my work buried behind a wall of brand new tile.

Drain is not normal, but fortunate...lol. I'd leave it like that.

Soldering is easy. Just clean clean clean the pipes, de-burr your cuts, clean the inside of the fittings, the face of the fittings and the outsides of the fittings with emery cloth, flux everything up and go. Heat the pipe and heat the fitting until solder flows into the joint, then wipe off the excess flux after things cool. Turn the water on and test before you start on tile....Just don't use that shit thin wall copper and it'll outlive you.

 

[4Waters]

Because I'm an electrician not a plumber. I'm sure I could get it soldered but I wouldn't trust my work buried behind a wall of brand new tile.

Heat the fitting and the solder will go toward the heat, wipe it with a wet cloth after

 

[Backlash]

@lbhsbz nailed it. It isn't hard to do. Before you do any tile work, you'll be checking your valve anyway. As long as you buy good quality copper tubing, and you debur every cut, and clean every joint, that repair should outlive us both. It's nothing to be afraid of tackling.

 

[CommanderLee]

They are not universal from what I have found. Each manufacture is different. Wife wanted to update the fixtures in the bathroom and I quickly learned this. Since I sell headers and am not a plumber and I didn't want to knock a hole in the tile I created a hybrid to get what she wanted. Crazy part is the old parts that I rattle canned in the backyard have held better than the black pieces that came with the assembly we bought.

 

[Backlash]

If you do decide to tackle this install yourself (Which you should, it's not hard), buy type L copper pipe at the minimum. It's thicker wall tubing than type M and hardly noticeable in the price. If you don't already have plumbing tools, this will give you the reason to buy some. They aren't expensive which is nice. Buy a decent quality tubing cutter and a reamer if it's not attached to the cutter. A wire brush for inside the fittings and tubing, some emery cloth and flux. You can get a quick MAP gas canister and nozzle for cheap. I've also found the small black fireproof square pads to be helpful in tight places. You can run the torch right up against the framing in the home with the pad on place, and don't worry about burning things down. Our house is 110 years old, so that was a huge concern for me. Just like electrical work, take your time, plan everything out and the end results will be a solid install and a newly learned skill.

 

[rrrr]

If you leave the drain at the current location, the shower floor slope will be awkward, and it also needs a p trap.

Break out a path in the concrete to the center of the area, then extend the drain to that point. You'll need to put a p trap at the drain. Pour raised new concrete for the shower area about 3" high, sloped to the drain. Set the drain elevation at the proper height for the tile bed that will top the concrete.

I did this same modification when we rebuilt the interior of our house in Plano, it worked great for 25 years.

 

[Emac]

Kind of looks like a raised foundation but hard to tell. Is a slab or raise? As others have said change out the valve since you don't need the tub fill any more and you only need the shower head. You will also need to add the p-trap in the drain.

 

[lakemadness]

Because I'm an electrician not a plumber. I'm sure I could get it soldered but I wouldn't trust my work buried behind a wall of brand new tile.

I'm not a plumber, either. That's why I pay a plumber to do plumber things. At least if I want to be more confident its done correctly.

 

[lf2]

The drain box and tub drain is 100% normal for slab foundations. Looking at the pic it looks like the drain runs towards the middle of the shower so relocating will be a little easier. Code for a shower drain is 2” though.
The moen valve is universal for most all moen trim kits, but i would replace since wall is open, also to raise it up to shower height.

 

[boatpi]

Mixet is an old valve company. They were used in hundreds of houses maybe thousands in Huntington Beach I had one you could still get parts for them, but the covers and things that sort and handles are not very attractive.


Since you have it open and you have a long-term house you live in, then it right my two cents


. I’ve changed the entire valve, something really nice company called Newport brass if you have that kind of budget, I’ve used them the last 10 or 15 years even though they got bought out top quality stuff. Current company is based out of Santa Ana easy to get parts.

Sometimes you can find complete systems one off left over from a custom house builder over order on eBay. I’ve snagged and deals at less than half price there.

I just looked on eBay. They have the entire valve brand new for about $150. It’s pressure control and regulated and the entire system several of them on their chrome summer brass that are normally $800, for about $300.

 

[Sawtooth]

Change the complete mixing valve out since you have it fully exposed. Just get a “threaded” valve and install some MIP-to-Pex fittings, your water supply is already plumed in pex……no soldering needed, just extend the type A pex.
As for the drain that is a completely normal install for a tub, overflow/tub drain tee into the Ptrap and away go troubles down the drain . As said above the drain looks to be headed in the direction of where you will want to center the new shower drain and also is 2” so you would need to install a new Ptrap “down stream” under the new shower drain. This isn’t by chance in Havasu is it?

 

[WYRD]

Change the complete mixing valve out since you have it fully exposed. Just get a “threaded” valve and install some MIP-to-Pex fittings, your water supply is already plumed in pex……no soldering needed, just extend the type A pex.
As for the drain that is a completely normal install for a tub, overflow/tub drain tee into the Ptrap and away go troubles down the drain . As said above the drain looks to be headed in the direction of where you will want to center the new shower drain and also is 2” so you would need to install a new Ptrap “down stream” under the new shower drain. This isn’t by chance in Havasu is it?

No it's in San Bernardino. Thank you for the information. For the Pex piping would it be okay to install the SharkBite connectors in there or because it's concealed in the wall does it need to be a glued connection?

 

[wzuber]

With the drain plumbing where it is why not install a linear drain at the wall? Much cleaner looking imo.

 

[mjc]

No it's in San Bernardino. Thank you for the information. For the Pex piping would it be okay to install the SharkBite connectors in there or because it's concealed in the wall does it need to be a glued connection?

I have shark bite in my whole house and have had most of it for 15 years so far with no problems.

 

[WYRD]

The drain box and tub drain is 100% normal for slab foundations. Looking at the pic it looks like the drain runs towards the middle of the shower so relocating will be a little easier. Code for a shower drain is 2” though.
The moen valve is universal for most all moen trim kits, but i would replace since wall is open, also to raise it up to shower height.

So the main drain line is 2 in. I think I just need to replace the Trap and the drain tailpipe so that it's all 2 in. I was not really wanting to cut the concrete so was planning on leaving the drain where it was. Is that an issue?

 

[DarkJuJu]

Looks like the shitty 20yr old Delta valves I have in my house, PITA to replace/work on.

 

[DLC]

On our remodel in havasu we placed the drain on one end of the shower, we didn’t want to stand on top of the drain grate

The down side to that is you have to slope the floor all the way to the drain and it could be 1 1/2 higher than the drain (depending on how wide your shower is

Swap out valve add a hand wand & valve makes cleaning the shower easier see pic

This shower the grate is in the middle & I always stand on it - feels weird on my feet

 

[lf2]

So the main drain line is 2 in. I think I just need to replace the Trap and the drain tailpipe so that it's all 2 in. I was not really wanting to cut the concrete so was planning on leaving the drain where it was. Is that an issue?

yes correct replace all 1 1/2” pieces with 2” and your good to go.
Plenty of people do the offset drains, i personally am not a fan of the look (to me it looks like you were to lazy to move it) so unless doing a linear drain i will always try and talk my customers into spending the money to move it to the center.

 

[Livewire Fabworks]

As mentioned, you can leave the drain in place and run a linear drain. Depending on what you are planning on for a pan you can buy pre stopped pans that are set up for you location of drain such as Schluters Kerdi pans. Or you can go the old fashion hot mop and float with a linear drain.

 

[Lucky Larry]

We took out the tub and put in a linear drain and changed the valve

 

[Cobalt232]

Mixet is an old valve company. They were used in hundreds of houses maybe thousands in Huntington Beach I had one you could still get parts for them, but the covers and things that sort and handles are not very attractive.


Since you have it open and you have a long-term house you live in, then it right my two cents


. I’ve changed the entire valve, something really nice company called Newport brass if you have that kind of budget, I’ve used them the last 10 or 15 years even though they got bought out top quality stuff. Current company is based out of Santa Ana easy to get parts.

Sometimes you can find complete systems one off left over from a custom house builder over order on eBay. I’ve snagged and deals at less than half price there.

I just looked on eBay. They have the entire valve brand new for about $150. It’s pressure control and regulated and the entire system several of them on their chrome summer brass that are normally $800, for about $300.

+1 on Newport Brass. Good warranty support on our kitchen faucet that sprung a leak in the pull out hose.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

View attachment 1476969 View attachment 1476970

Working on changing a fiberglass tub/shower to a full stand-up. Took out the tub and there's this large hole in the slab where the drain is. Is that normal?

Also for the mix-it valve are these Universal or do I have to stick with the brand that was put in there originally. It's a Moen but would we be able to use other brands so I don't have to swap the valve out to change the handle type?

100% normal on the tub drain. That's a common practice for onslab construction. The space is needed to assemble the waste and overflow during construction.
The prefab on the mixing valve actually looks extremely common for the mid 2000s. It may have been our company that did this, but everyone did it about the same.

If you don't hate the option Moen offers for trim I would stay with that valve, they are readily available for the cartridge replacements.

If you are switching to a shower, you are in luck with the 2" trap and trap arm. Since the arm is coming from under the tub, my guess is that the home was optioned for a shower and the underground prefab was designed to accommodate both options.

If your home is up the hill from the little league playoff ball park in Devore, it's likely I designed your homes plumbing system.

 

[WYRD]

Probably your design. My tile guy says we can leave the drain at the location that it is as long as I change it all out to 2 in for the arm. After reading this thread I am just going to change out the valves in both restrooms since I wasn't even thinking about needing to raise them to shower height. Off to the depot to see what they have available and in stock. Tire guy comes back out on Monday to start the waterproofing of the pan.

 

[TPC]

I have shark bite in my whole house and have had most of it for 15 years so far with no problems.

Yep.
I replaced the guts in one valve in one bathroom no problem. I never seized the guts BTW.
Then, not so lucky with the other bathroom.

The other bathroom the entire assy had to be replaced and with no water in the house as a result, I had to get it done fast. The Shark Bite method worked quick and superb holding for 5 years now..

 

[WYRD]

On our remodel in havasu we placed the drain on one end of the shower, we didn’t want to stand on top of the drain grate

The down side to that is you have to slope the floor all the way to the drain and it could be 1 1/2 higher than the drain (depending on how wide your shower is

Swap out valve add a hand wand & valve makes cleaning the shower easier see pic

This shower the grate is in the middle & I always stand on it - feels weird on my feet

View attachment 1477045 View attachment 1477048

I like that idea just might steal it

 

[havasujeeper]

Stick with Delta or Moen. They provide free lifetime warranty on all parts, including cartridges.

 

[Justfishing]

Looks like a moen positemp. Replace the cartridge. Pull the clip up and pull the cartridge out. They also make a cartridge puller or in extreme cases make your own with a 1/2" bolt. See youtube.

They are still making the valve so cartridges will be around for a long time.

The handle and trim fit specific valves. In this case moen positemp.

Pull the valve right away to be sure it will come out without damaging the be valve

 

[NicPaus]

I would just buy a new shower only valve. If you want brushed nickel. Moen Banbury from home depot or Lindor from lowes is the best bang for the buck. Same positemp like you have but no tub outlet.

Adding a diverter valve is nice. But it will ad a lot to the cost and if a Rental 1 more cartridge that could leak over time. You can just do a ad on 1 and Costco is best place to buy.

 

[CarolynandBob]

You can do it. It is easy. My stepdad (pipefitter) taught me how to sweat pipe at 12 yrs old. Just do as others have said.

 

[Sawtooth]

No it's in San Bernardino. Thank you for the information. For the Pex piping would it be okay to install the SharkBite connectors in there or because it's concealed in the wall does it need to be a glued connection?

I’m not a fan of the SharkBite fittings in a permanent application, they are great to do an emergency repair and get the water back on for the night etc.
I have remodeled a clients house twice in 18 months because of flooding caused by SharkBite fittings, the whole house was plumbed with them, needless to say after the second flood I repiped the complete house.
I reached out to SharkBite as to warranty information and was told “good for 25 years”, well this house was built in 2014 and the second flood was in 2022 . They pretty much told the homeowner to pound sand, was it because the water in Havasu is so bad, or because in the summer the attic space gets into the 140*+ range, it’s anyones guess. All I know is I’ve replaced them in two separate homes for the same reasons, the plastic collar that holds the pipe in place fails and out comes the water, and for that reason I’m out .

Plus they ain’t cheap $$$!

 

[Justfishing]

I’m not a fan of the SharkBite fittings in a permanent application, they are great to do an emergency repair and get the water back on for the night etc.
I have remodeled a clients house twice in 18 months because of flooding caused by SharkBite fittings, the whole house was plumbed with them, needless to say after the second flood I repiped the complete house.
I reached out to SharkBite as to warranty information and was told “good for 25 years”, well this house was built in 2014 and the second flood was in 2022 . They pretty much told the homeowner to pound sand, was it because the water in Havasu is so bad, or because in the summer the attic space gets into the 140*+ range, it’s anyones guess. All I know is I’ve replaced them in two separate homes for the same reasons, the plastic collar that holds the pipe in place fails and out comes the water, and for that reason I’m out .
View attachment 1477203 View attachment 1477204
Plus they ain’t cheap $$$!

Was this slow drips or a bigger leak. Personally i dont think they should behind and enclosed wall where a small leak will go unnoticed.

Am i right I see 3 shark bites that had leaked.

 

[Mike Honcho]

The drain vault is standard on slap floors allows some space to align the drain if its off, if this is concerning you can pack it with silica sand toward the end. If you use a kerdi system Floor and decor sell everything and stock it with the drain pans on a side pre sloped and the curb and walls you just attach and then use their mortar and tape sorta speak to waterproof it all.
The valve can be swapped with whatever you want just remember cause its cheaper on Scamazon doesn't mean that you may find parts for it in five years if needed Also I always make sure to match the sinks with the shower valve.

As for plumbing there is so many variations if you're not comfortable with soldering/sweating you can convert to pex and use a crimp tool and threaded connectors, I would not recommend shark bite connectors they are more of a repair versus replace deal. Sweating the copper would prob be the easiest for you but maybe you can find a handyman to do it for you if you're not comfortable with it but just test it for leaks prior to him leaving.

Good Luck

 

[77charger]

Normally they fill those drain boxes with sand and pack it down.

If your changing to a full tile shower you will need to swap that drain out to a two piece drain and remove the overflow. Then fill the box with sand within a couple inches from top and then use some ready mix for the top layer is common.

 

[77charger]

I’m not a fan of the SharkBite fittings in a permanent application, they are great to do an emergency repair and get the water back on for the night etc.
I have remodeled a clients house twice in 18 months because of flooding caused by SharkBite fittings, the whole house was plumbed with them, needless to say after the second flood I repiped the complete house.
I reached out to SharkBite as to warranty information and was told “good for 25 years”, well this house was built in 2014 and the second flood was in 2022 . They pretty much told the homeowner to pound sand, was it because the water in Havasu is so bad, or because in the summer the attic space gets into the 140*+ range, it’s anyones guess. All I know is I’ve replaced them in two separate homes for the same reasons, the plastic collar that holds the pipe in place fails and out comes the water, and for that reason I’m out .
View attachment 1477203 View attachment 1477204
Plus they ain’t cheap $$$!

I had a valve cartridge go out at my house right before I had to leave to go to work for a week. I had to shut water off cause valve was stuck open.

Got cutter out cut the valve out and used shark bites to cap off. It was only a week and I was worried about it.

When I got back I got my solder stuff out and cleaned up valve got it fixed. Cut some copper and sweated pipes. IMO it ain’t hard to do if you have some decent mechanical skills. I learned years ago when I had to change a spigot. Plumber on job set me up with extra flux and solder showed me real quick the basics.

Went home got it done and was good. I see Sharkbite fittings on jobs I cringe.

 

[Sawtooth]

Was this slow drips or a bigger leak. Personally i dont think they should behind and enclosed wall where a small leak will go unnoticed.

Am i right I see 3 shark bites that had leaked.

Both floods were running water, like turning on a hose bib 3/4 of a turn. The ones that show signs of leaking in the picture were dripping. Those were in the attic, the two big leaks were in the walls.

 

[n2otoofast4u]

I just redid my daughter’s bathroom and am getting ready to do our master. Here is how we do them.

Valve 9” offset from center. Cap top of valve a put drop ear on tub side of valve at give or take 9” from center of stem. Slide bar placed where it centers the head in the enclosure.

Doing it this way allows easy access to valve from outside the shower, gives nice uniform sweep of the hose and looks good when standing in and using the shower. Also give good hose reach to clean shower or wash the dog.

 

[RichL]

I just redid my daughter’s bathroom and am getting ready to do our master. Here is how we do them.

Valve 9” offset from center. Cap top of valve a put drop ear on tub side of valve at give or take 9” from center of stem. Slide bar placed where it centers the head in the enclosure.

Doing it this way allows easy access to valve from outside the shower, gives nice uniform sweep of the hose and looks good when standing in and using the shower. Also give good hose reach to clean shower or wash the dog.


View attachment 1477614

What shower base are you using here?

 

[n2otoofast4u]

What shower base are you using here?

That is a Mincey Marble. I’d never use them typically in a residential setting, but one of my PM and/or foreman ordered (2) incorrectly on a hotel project we just wrapped up, so they found their new home at this dump of a house we bought.

 

[WYRD]

I just redid my daughter’s bathroom and am getting ready to do our master. Here is how we do them.

Valve 9” offset from center. Cap top of valve a put drop ear on tub side of valve at give or take 9” from center of stem. Slide bar placed where it centers the head in the enclosure.

Doing it this way allows easy access to valve from outside the shower, gives nice uniform sweep of the hose and looks good when standing in and using the shower. Also give good hose reach to clean shower or wash the dog.


View attachment 1477614

Any pictures of the valve and Plumbing in the wall? Assuming you capped the top valve but if wanted you could run that up to a rainfall shower head?

 

[Smupser]

Because I'm an electrician not a plumber. I'm sure I could get it soldered but I wouldn't trust my work buried behind a wall of brand new tile.

Just test it before closing up the wall, if your smart enough to be a sparky im sure you could be a plumber I have faith in you

 

[n2otoofast4u]

Any pictures of the valve and Plumbing in the wall? Assuming you capped the top valve but if wanted you could run that up to a rainfall shower head?

I don’t have a pic at rough in.

Yes, you could run the top through a diverter and up to a rain head. We do very little single family work, but in my experience the rain head deal is a novelty that wears off quickly.

 

[Orange Juice]

View attachment 1476969 View attachment 1476970

Working on changing a fiberglass tub/shower to a full stand-up. Took out the tub and there's this large hole in the slab where the drain is. Is that normal?

Also for the mix-it valve are these Universal or do I have to stick with the brand that was put in there originally. It's a Moen but would we be able to use other brands so I don't have to swap the valve out to change the handle type?

Here are a few from mine. I had the same project. You need to get the drain dug out and replace a couple black fittings to match your new drain location.

I carefully removed the p-Trap and replaced it, while aligning the new drain location.

 

[Orange Juice]

This is what I pulled out. I believe I went with delta.

 

[boatpi]

Also take a hard look at the height of the shower where the pipe comes out of the wall houses made 30 or 40 years ago have a much lower shower, head height because people were shorter then.

anyone doing remodel now ends up ,if they don’t do one out of the ceiling, they’ll raise it by 6 to 9 inches at the least.

 

[WYRD]

Just test it before closing up the wall, if your smart enough to be a sparky im sure you could be a plumber I have faith in you

Well I think I got the hang of it. After 3 or 4 trips to the hardware store I finally learned the difference between PEX a and PEX B, and expansion versus clamp fittings

Might not be the prettiest Plumbing work ever but there's no leaks

I think I'll stick to conduit and wire though.

This is the before and after for the Jack and Jill bathroom. Next will be the tub shower conversion.

Constructive criticism always welcome but don't laugh it's paid for

 

[Smupser]

Well I think I got the hang of it. After 3 or 4 trips to the hardware store I finally learned the difference between PEX a and PEX B, and expansion versus clamp fittings

Might not be the prettiest Plumbing work ever but there's no leaks

I think I'll stick to conduit and wire though.

This is the before and after for the Jack and Jill bathroom. Next will be the tub shower conversion.


View attachment 1478161
View attachment 1478160

Constructive criticism always welcome but don't laugh it's paid for

Well I think I got the hang of it. After 3 or 4 trips to the hardware store I finally learned the difference between PEX a and PEX B, and expansion versus clamp fittings

Might not be the prettiest Plumbing work ever but there's no leaks

I think I'll stick to conduit and wire though.

This is the before and after for the Jack and Jill bathroom. Next will be the tub shower conversion.


View attachment 1478161
View attachment 1478160

Constructive criticism always welcome but don't laugh it's paid for

Drill holes and use isolators next time. And for the stubouts use a 2x4 instead of those flimsy brackets. By the way, I have no idea what I’m talking about, I deliver cardboard for a living.

 

[Spudsbud]

Retired Fitter. 42 yrs.
Always choose MOEN.
Since the wall was open, replace all but you would be just fine with a rebuild cartridge.
ALL sweat copper. nothing else. Period. hire the right guy.