Pilots on the Board

[whiteworks]

Nothing in aviation should be fast tracked. Especially a private pilot or instrument pilot student. The speed at which a student will learn is dictated by their own abilities and a competent CFI will not send their student to a checkride before they are fully prepared. There is a reason why there is a high CFI checkride failure rate. You cannot fast track to this position and then turn around a provide quality flight instruction to a student that is relying on your expertise and knowledge. Experience and knowledge in aviation keeps you safe. Putting someone in an airplane and rushing through the process is dangerous and an injustice to the student. Given the current flight training environment there are buliding blocks put in place to prevent accidents and those don’t always provide a high enough level of protection. Hurrying up to get a rating or certificate is a recipe for disaster later on.

I believe you are misunderstanding my use of the term of fast track and in reality it’s not the term I should have used as it’s obviously been misunderstood here. It’s going to take however long its going to take for each person to learn and become proficient with their skil set. That being said once they are ready for a check ride having to wait 3 months for a check ride is ridiculous in my opinion. When that check ride date finally come up maybe the weather is bad, plane is down, someone is ill, or even worse they’re actually not as prepared as they thought and fail, back in line they go. If you meet and exceed the standard in a checkride then you meet or exceed the standard. Having access to a check ride date when you’re ready is the issue I’m looking to address.

So maybe a better way of saying this would be to create a timely access path for qualified candidates to a checkride when they are truly ready and confident in their ability’s to exceed the standard.

 

[mesquito_creek]

I believe you are misunderstanding my use of the term of fast track and in reality it’s not the term I should have used as it’s obviously been misunderstood here. It’s going to take however long its going to take for each person to learn and become proficient with their skil set. That being said once they are ready for a check ride having to wait 3 months for a check ride is ridiculous in my opinion. When that check ride date finally come up maybe the weather is bad, plane is down, someone is ill, or even worse they’re actually not as prepared as they thought and fail, back in line they go. If you meet and exceed the standard in a checkride then you meet or exceed the standard. Having access to a check ride date when you’re ready is the issue I’m looking to address.

So maybe a better way of saying this would be to create a timely access path for qualified candidates to a checkride when they are truly ready and confident in their ability’s to exceed the standard.

3 month check ride wait would be fast track… Try 8-10 months…

 

[whiteworks]

3 month check ride wait would be fast track… Try 8-10 months…

No shit? That’s insane

Did you really have to wait 8-10 months?

 

[TimeBandit]

3 month check ride wait would be fast track… Try 8-10 months…

I guess no more 10 day IFR courses.... and that's a good thing.

 

[t&y]

Check ride Prep... Great point. I hear you @whiteworks and think the idea behind your plan is awesome. One of the things I benefited from the most was a couple of mock check rides with an instructor other than my CFI. Here is the reality, I got along great with my CFI. Almost too good. I knew the questions he was asking just based on that friendship so I knew how to answer them already. While sitting across from someone not as familiar, who asks questions in a different form, you learn real quick if you truly know the information or just know how to give the proper answer to a known question.

The actual oral part of my real check ride was just as much of a ground school lesson as I ever had with my CFI. In the end of course I had all the info, but if I said I nailed every question right off the bat without some working through it, I would be lying. It was interesting, a bit terrifying, and a ton of fun all at the same time if you can wrap your head around that. Not sure if it is the norm, but he flying part of the ride was by far the easiest with really no pressure felt on my part going through the maneuvers.

I think a program set up to truly check out a student's level in a true to life setting would benefit candidates significantly. If you can somehow arrange for them to be put in line with a "30 day" or whatever timeline date for the check ride, I think you would have solid business model that would gain a ton of traction.

 

[t&y]

3 month check ride wait would be fast track… Try 8-10 months…

No shit? That’s insane

Did you really have to wait 8-10 months?

I remember when this first came up and I was thinking the same thing... that is crazy. Well, I had all of my requirements plus a bit extra in February. 6 months later I got my check ride date.

I'm not sure how much of that delay was based on the line I was in at the school, or a literal shortage of DPE's, but that is how long it took for me to go from a sign off by the CFI to the actual ride. All good with me, I've never been in a hurry about this stuff.

 

[mesquito_creek]

No shit? That’s insane

Did you really have to wait 8-10 months?

Yes… but I was part 61 not in a school. The 141 schools lock up all the DPEs with 2000 dollar rides and 10 a week guaranteed….

 

[SkyDirtWaterguy]

Damn! You guys are making me think about becoming a DPE. A couple of my buddies do it and I’m gonna talk to them. More than a 30 day wait for a check ride is unacceptable.

 

[n2otoofast4u]

Just and Update... Passed the check ride for PPL so now I'm official! Right around 120 total hours with close to 80 of those being dual instruction (CFI). Obviously I put way more than the minimums into learning this skill set. That was on purpose. On that note, the wait for a DPE in SoCal was fucking stupid!!!! Any of you pro's out there need a side gig, there is a huge market for them right now.

Plan is to move forward with the IFR then Commercial ratings. I'll throw in complex early in the process and I'd like to mix up the planes a bit too. Everything up to this point has been low wing Pipers.

So for now, the 100-dollar burger flights is where I'll be for a bit building some knowledge of the semi local SoCal spots. Going to be nice having a bit of freedom to fly around without having to fight the school schedule. This Friday will be my first official Cross Country as a Private Pilot. Just need to lock down a location. Once it cools down I plan on scooting out to Havasu a couple times for breakfast.

No plane purchase in the near future... but you never know.

HELL YEAH!!!!

 

[whiteworks]

I’m really trying to figure out this DPE bottle neck issue, my pee brain sees that 23% that are failing as a big part of the issue. It’s gonna take a few months to get the data in place to prove or disprove my concept is valid. At that point another 6 months of running and refining the program to get it dialed in. I really don’t know if DPE’s would get onboard with it or just go on doing what they do. One thing I know to be fact in this world is no one really gives a shit about anything that does not directly effect their bottom line until they see it directly effects there bottom line LOL

On Thursday night I have 50 CFI/CFII’s coming out for a hosted event to show them what I have figured out over the last 9 months of running this access business model. Each one will leave the event with three things.

1. A full belly.
2. Exposure to an additional and more effective pedagogy.
3. A business model to help them make more money by effectively, efficiently, and economically providing quality instruction to their clients.

What I’m not selling is DPE access, the mock checkride program will need to carry its own weight and the data will show if it survives or not. It will need to create the availability for more check rides on a monthly basis by freeing up the DPE’s from retests of its going to survive.

Does that make sense?

 

[Sleek-Jet]

I think you meant this for @t&y… but I agree because I fly a beech!

He isn't talking about one of those....

But a mouse flies better than either a 172 or a PA-28.

The DPE thing is crazy, it takes a couple of months to get a check ride out here and it isn't getting any better from what I understand. Back when I took all my check rides it took a couple weeks at most to get a ride scheduled.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

Congrats on the successful check ride t&y!

 

[t&y]

He isn't talking about one of those....

But a mouse flies better than either a 172 or a PA-28.

The DPE thing is crazy, it takes a couple of months to get a check ride out here and it isn't getting any better from what I understand. Back when I took all my check rides it took a couple weeks at most to get a ride scheduled.

Hey now... That might 140hp pulls me along at a solid 95mph GS... with a slight tail wind

 

[t&y]

I’m really trying to figure out this DPE bottle neck issue, my pee brain sees that 23% that are failing as a big part of the issue. It’s gonna take a few months to get the data in place to prove or disprove my concept is valid. At that point another 6 months of running and refining the program to get it dialed in. I really don’t know if DPE’s would get onboard with it or just go on doing what they do. One thing I know to be fact in this world is no one really gives a shit about anything that does not directly effect their bottom line until they see it directly effects there bottom line LOL

On Thursday night I have 50 CFI/CFII’s coming out for a hosted event to show them what I have figured out over the last 9 months of running this access business model. Each one will leave the event with three things.

1. A full belly.
2. Exposure to an additional and more effective pedagogy.
3. A business model to help them make more money by effectively, efficiently, and economically providing quality instruction to their clients.

What I’m not selling is DPE access, the mock checkride program will need to carry its own weight and the data will show if it survives or not. It will need to create the availability for more check rides on a monthly basis by freeing up the DPE’s from retests of its going to survive.

Does that make sense?

Did you say free food??? I'm thinking an RDP fly/drive in

 

[whiteworks]

Did you say free food??? I'm thinking an RDP fly/drive in

If you are free and want to attend you’re more than welcome. I’d say it will be insightful for you to see behind the curtain of “CFI life” a bit. Most of these guys and girls had no idea they were going into business for themselves as flight instructors when they started pursuing aviation, and here they are on the path to 1500 hours grinding it out in the trenches learning how to successfully run their own CFI business the hitters are flying 100 hours a month and treating it like a business, they are proficient at instructing and keeping their students engaged and moving them forward. I see instructors come through that are also stalled out, they don’t have solid students and you can see them struggling to keep both their own and there students training cadence moving along.

It’s going to be interesting putting 50 of these cats together in the same room LOL the reality is the ones that stick it out and make it to the airlines are gonna be crossing paths with each other globally for the next 40 years. Some may wash out, some may just instruct on the side as a way to mess with airplanes and stay sharp. The hitters are knocking it out in 36 months or less, and getting picked up by the regionals, 1000 hour hitter is a unicorn, they are the ones you want instructing you, all traction, all the time.

 

[whiteworks]

Yes… but I was part 61 not in a school. The 141 schools lock up all the DPEs with 2000 dollar rides and 10 a week guaranteed….

Did you know that a 141 with a check ride pass rate of 90% or higher can become eligible to self certify and do their own check rides? Rates around socal are at $1000. I had a student trying to get into our mock checkride program just to get a date, she said she was ready and didn’t need any more training or assessment and to put her on schedule for check ride asap, I said can you be here tomorrow morning at 8:00 am, she then said she wasn’t ready for that LOL. I told her I have no spots in this program right now and she should have her CFI reach out to the local DPE’s she figured she could just buy her way in, that’s 100% not what we’re doing here. It’s been eye opening seeing people scramble for checkrides. I do feel bad for the international kids who have a student visa that is going to expire and need to leave the country on X date with a rating after attending a high dollar flight school. I’ve pulled up to my hangar to see one standing in front of it crying after failing a check ride. DPE access is a real issue. A good CFI or flight school will have a track record with a DPE and be able to get their students check rides from what I have seen.

 

[mesquito_creek]

Did you know that a 141 with a check ride pass rate of 90% or higher can become eligible to self certify and do their own check rides? Rates around socal are at $1000. I had a student trying to get into our mock checkride program just to get a date, she said she was ready and didn’t need any more training or assessment and to put her on schedule for check ride asap, I said can you be here tomorrow morning at 8:00 am, she then said she wasn’t ready for that LOL. I told her I have no spots in this program right now and she should have her CFI reach out to the local DPE’s she figured she could just buy her way in, that’s 100% not what we’re doing here. It’s been eye opening seeing people scramble for checkrides. I do feel bad for the international kids who have a student visa that is going to expire and need to leave the country on X date with a rating after attending a high dollar flight school. I’ve pulled up to my hangar to see one standing in front of it crying after failing a check ride. DPE access is a real issue. A good CFI or flight school will have a track record with a DPE and be able to get their students check rides from what I have seen.

I am not on a career path, just a money burning hobby, so the DPE issue isn’t as much of a problem now. But last year the DPE I used who was a friend of a friend told me he was getting offers from flight schools for 2500 dollar check rides as long as he could do 2 a day for a couple weeks straight. My CFI was doing part 61 and decided to quit and move over to a 141 school because he had a 1/2 dozen students stuck in check ride purgatory. Fortunately for him he now is training in an Air conditioned Sirius instead of the 110 degree Sundowner we were training in!

 

[mesquito_creek]

1000 dollar check ride with about 200-300 in plane rental…. I am glad that is behind me.

 

[whiteworks]

It was hot here the last few weeks, had a couple CFI’s figure out the air was on in the sim facility and move in LOL

 

[mesquito_creek]

It was hot here the last few weeks, had a couple CFI’s figure out the air was on in the sim facility and move in LOL
View attachment 1429767

Pussys…. How is that going to prepare them for the real world. (Joking)

The only feed back I remember from my CFI is when he told me the best decision I ever made was to call off our training and land the plane when it was 109 in the cockpit at about 7 am in August.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

It was hot here the last few weeks, had a couple CFI’s figure out the air was on in the sim facility and move in LOL
View attachment 1429767

The main problem I see there is the arm on the window is still attached. Unscrew that fucking thing and fly with the windows open...

 

[Cobalt232]

I've heard it is a several year wait to become a DPE in certain areas.

Riggin Flight service in Madison South Dakota has an in house DPE. Usually a 2 week wait if you are willing to travel. And you can do your tailwheel endorsement there while you are at it.

 

[rivrrts429]

Congrats @t&y . That’s a huge accomplishment.

I took my kid on a helicopter ride last week in Hawaii and now she’s thinking a career path in helo’s rather than fixed wing.

This shit isn’t cheap and is not easy. You should be very stoked about your accomplishment.

 

[SkyDirtWaterguy]

There is a severe backlog in all areas within the FAA right now. From DPE certification to medical certification reviews. I know a few people out on medical leave and the backlog at the FAA aeromedical office is up to a year and a half to review cases and this is with priority for Airline type pilots. Frustrating for everyone.

 

[rivrrts429]

There is a severe backlog in all areas within the FAA right now. From DPE certification to medical certification reviews. I know a few people out on medical leave and the backlog at the FAA aeromedical office is up to a year and a half and this is with priority for Airline type pilots. Frustrating for everyone.

… and then the airlines wonder why there’s such a pilot shortage…

 

[SkyDirtWaterguy]

… and then the airlines wonder why there’s such a pilot shortage…

That’s a whole other story that would take me 6 pages to explain….

 

[rivrrts429]

That’s a whole other story that would take me 6 pages to explain that….

I’d be interested to hear your take if you ever decide to share as my 15 year old has an interest going that direction and I don’t know a thing about the aviation industry.

I’m sure, like any massive industry, there’s a bit of Tom Foolery involved.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

… and then the airlines wonder why there’s such a pilot shortage…

Blame congress... What has happened is the US government put restrictions on who can be hired at a scheduled airline. This instantly shortened the line on whom could get a job at an airline, but there is no shortage of willing and able pilots.

Maybe that is a distinction without a difference but it proves the adage that if you want less of something regulate it.

 

[rivrrts429]

Blame congress... What has happened is the US government put restrictions on who can be hired at a scheduled airline. This instantly shortened the line on whom could get a job at an airline, but there is no shortage of willing and able pilots.

Maybe that is a distinction without a difference but it proves the adage that if you want less of something regulate it.

Makes sense now, thanks!

 

[Cobalt232]

Blame congress... What has happened is the US government put restrictions on who can be hired at a scheduled airline. This instantly shortened the line on whom could get a job at an airline, but there is no shortage of willing and able pilots.

Maybe that is a distinction without a difference but it proves the adage that if you want less of something regulate it.

Yep, it started with the Colgan accident. After that happened, it was determined that Part 121 pilots needed 1500 hours to fly. In reality, the crew had hours well in excess, but reacted improperly in the stall. The FO is also sick and fatigued as she had slept in the crew room the night before.

 

[whiteworks]

Had a room full of CFI/CFII’s tonight, solid turn out and we’re definitely cultivating a community. I think this is gonna be a quarterly activity. It was a nice mixer and very cool to see all these folks networking.

Funny thing about this whole aviation career pursuit is not one of these guys knew they were signing up to run their own flight instruction business in order to become a professional pilot, and now here they are neck deep in entrepreneurship fueled by self motivation

I ran into a buddy while I was ordering the food for the event, he stoked me out and rolled up with a camera crew and is gonna put together a little piece for his local business highlight deal he does. That was pretty rad, small town type stuff.