Parkland, Florida shooting

[DaveC]

The problem with the Left is their only solution is more gun control. They don't want to face reality that our society is already heavily armed and there are a lot of crazy people out there.

There are an estimated 300+ million guns already in circulation. Control what?

Well we already have extremely strict gun control laws in CA and that has not helped. The same kind of gun control the left asks for around the country has existed in this state for decades with little to no results in reducing violence.

I seriously doubt that politicians will stop fawking around and actually get to the root of the problem. That would be naive to think that. Besides having a scapegoat is so much easier.

 

[STV_Keith]

Without going to Google first, I'll ask - have any of the school shootings we've seen in the last decade be at a private school or all public schools?

 

[BajaT]

I remember playing a JV basketball game 27 years ago at Long Beach Poly. It felt like a prison back then...... School resource officers or RD's idea of a military recruit center to perhaps supplement armed teachers (optional). Guns are here to stay, so thinking gun control is going to solve the problem is just crazy IMO. GOV could step in and help fund better solutions. But one exit, one entrance like Long Beach Poly did way back when is fairly easy solution with one additional employee. Just like you can't leave you car running when u run in the store, times have changed. If you don't adjust, your left behind. In the cases where a minor has possession of a parent's unsecured firearm, hold the adult accountable...

 

[RodnJen]

And you believe that Rod?

Yes.

 

[MSum661]

Yes.

Do you believe any of this?

https://twitter.com/hashtag/resist?f=images&vertical=news&src=refgoogle

https://gellerreport.com/2018/02/fl....html/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook

Yes.

 

[River Dirt 2]

I recently attended a Active Shooter/Situational Awareness training. This video from the LASD was part of the program. Hurts to watch but its obviously reality, best to make yourself and loved ones as prepared as possible. I have 1 in high school and 1 in college so it hits very close to home. I have had both of them watch it.

http://www.activeshooter.lasd.org/

 

[t&y]

Four people at every school in the United States doing exactly what for 8 hours?

Standing watch. I don't expect you to understand. But ask yourself something real simple... Why do these people target gun free zones?

 

[t&y]

First of all, weapons at a school locked or not make the school an even bigger target. I have nothing against recruitment centers but staffing them at the expense of the military or the local school system will never fly with voters who elect people to appropriate funds. They already have access to our high schools for recruitment.

We had a security assessment performed by a professional team. When we told them that some of our Board members carry, they said regardless of what safeguards you implement, those carrying Board members are your biggest threat. Take that for what you will.

Come on dude... Are you serious? "First of all, weapons at a school locked or not make the school an even bigger target." I have read some really stupid shit on here, but this one might just be the number 1 now. Show me all the take over robberies of police station armory's. Or how about all the daytime take over robberies at Gun Stores? I'll give you sometime to research.

 

[t&y]

I recently attended a Active Shooter/Situational Awareness training. This video from the LASD was part of the program. Hurts to watch but its obviously reality, best to make yourself and loved ones as prepared as possible. I have 1 in high school and 1 in college so it hits very close to home. I have had both of them watch it.

http://www.activeshooter.lasd.org/

That's actually really smart of you. I've been working towards being an instructor at those classes and recently attended an Enhanced Active Shooter scenario. To keep it short, While wearing a very recognizable full marked uniform, I got shot by more unprepaired Law Enforcement (worthless feds) NOT STREET COPS... then I did the bad guys. Bruising and welts for a couple weeks after. Also got to work on sniping the littel f'ers with our AR's. Found I was far more conservative with rounds with the rifle than I was the standard duty carry. Intense, but very practical to what is going on. Force on Force is what is needed. We go into the school at least once a year and discuss this very thing with the staff. So many people are clueless. Pretty scary. You meet those cowards with force and they either turn and run or kill themselves. Or you could just tell them politely it's a gun free zone and they need to stop killing people.

 

[Old Texan]

First of all, weapons at a school locked or not make the school an even bigger target. I have nothing against recruitment centers but staffing them at the expense of the military or the local school system will never fly with voters who elect people to appropriate funds. They already have access to our high schools for recruitment.

We had a security assessment performed by a professional team. When we told them that some of our Board members carry, they said regardless of what safeguards you implement, those carrying Board members are your biggest threat. Take that for what you will.

Threat to who or what??????? Board members aren't in the school......Makes no sense

 

[RodnJen]

Come on dude... Are you serious? "First of all, weapons at a school locked or not make the school an even bigger target." I have read some really stupid shit on here, but this one might just be the number 1 now. Show me all the take over robberies of police station armory's. Or how about all the daytime take over robberies at Gun Stores? I'll give you sometime to research.

Comparing a guarded school to a police station is a stretch at best. So you are seriously talking about turning a neighborhood school into a paramilitary institution? Even if you could get federal, state and local officials to support the notion of a militarized school, is that the United States and the freedom I read so much about?

The shooter had a history of gun sales. He had school administrators that expelled him due to his behavior. There are people in his life that were aware of his actions. This is where we must ask ourselves the question, again, how hard and how fast do you go in. I posed the question with the school shooter in Norcal that killed his wife, buried her under the floor then shot up the school. Family, neighbors and police were aware of his behavior but chose to look the other way in the name of freedom. The question was largely ignored. Do we give our law enforcement the ability, and orders to, aggressively engage a potential threat, and are you as gun owners and "enthusiasts" willing to be the object of that level of policing? The answer for me is YES, but that is big government no matter how you slice it.

Local law enforcement already subcontracts out school patrol to marginally trained, private sector staff I my area. Resources are strained at best. I don't like judges releasing criminals anymore than anyone else but it will take commitment from the electeds, law enforcement and buy in from the community to facilitate change and accountability. That buy in is not likely to include an armory even in the most "conservative" communities.

 

[RCDave]

Threat to who or what??????? Board members aren't in the school......Makes no sense

But maybe, just maybe....they might show up and go awall at some school....right

 

[GRADS]

I'm having a tough time posting and not posting in this thread. I want to say all sorts of stuff but all I can think about is the families where their child won't be coming home tonight.

 

[RodnJen]

Threat to who or what??????? Board members aren't in the school......Makes no sense

Yes it does. We are talking about "trained" people who have taken classes and been awarded the right to carry in public. They are still considered the biggest threat by experts in the field.

 

[ToMorrow44]

The only issue with the military recruitment center on school grounds is we’ve made military recruitment centers gun free zones much like all military bases!

I agree with having a police officer on campus. No it wouldn’t stop someone who really wanted to inflict harm, but we’re not talking about ISIS, it’s a deterrent, and I think a small deterrent is all you need. Second benefit is the community interaction with police...maybe kids won’t grow up fearing the police and thinking they’re the enemy if they see them and interact with them daily...

 

[ToMorrow44]

Yes it does. We are talking about "trained" people who have taken classes and been awarded the right to carry in public. They are still considered the biggest threat by experts in the field.

People who are willing to receive training and undergo an FBI background check in order to carry in public aren’t the enemy...

 

[RodnJen]

People who are willing to receive training and undergo an FBI background check in order to carry in public aren’t the enemy...

I didn't say they were the enemy I said they were a threat. I'm quite sure you know the difference.

 

[was thatguy]

I didn't say they were the enemy I said they were a threat. I'm quite sure you know the difference.

Wtf??

 

[ChumpChange]

But maybe, just maybe....they might show up and go awall at some school....right

I'm a Board member of a Charter School and am on campus once per month for meetings. I'm there for business and needed decisions. I go as little as possible.

 

[shueman]

43 school shootings since the start of 2018 ... geez

 

[Activated]

Just showed up a sports fee to follow.

https://247sports.com/college/michi...l-coach-stepped-in-front-of-shooter-115137004

 

[TCHB]

Not sure what should be done but something has to change. Very sad for all the families and friends of the victims.

 

[rrrr]

Once again those who would be victims fail to help themselves. This asshole was expelled from the school for violent behavior. He made multiple posts on Facebook, etc. indicating he was unstable and dangerous.

But no one flagged this. None of his friends said "Ya know, this guy is serious and maybe we should call the cops".

I'm certainly not blaming them for his actions, but perhaps people should consider it a duty to involve law enforcement when it tips the scales to real danger.

 

[rrrr]

43 school shootings since the start of 2018 ... geez

Maybe you should read this list. It says there have been 18 events , and about half aren't what I would call a "school shooting"

A bullet hole in a window?

Where did you get 43?


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/school-shootings-year-article-1.3821162

 

[Ricks raft]

Four people at every school in the United States doing exactly what for 8 hours?

Providing some level of protection for our kids, at minimum a deterrent.

 

[DaveC]

Anyone can be considered a threat but that doesn't mean they are a threat!

Lets not kid ourselves here. Generally speaking, school administrators are not interested in having armed people on their campus. They are just looking for any justification for their position. So they went and got one.

I really understand their position though. Who wants to be the guy that authorizes the armed guard to be present and then the armed guard deal goes sideways. Then everyone points the finger at the guy that hired the guard.

They are just covering their ass.

I don't agree but I do understand their point of view

I didn't say they were the enemy I said they were a threat. I'm quite sure you know the difference.

 

[RitcheyRch]

Not to take this shooting lightly but find it odd that we know so much about this shooter and have seen videos of inside the class and him being arrested. However, we still know very little if anything about the Vegas shooter.

 

[ToMorrow44]

Once again those who would be victims fail to help themselves. This asshole was expelled from the school for violent behavior. He made multiple posts on Facebook, etc. indicating he was unstable and dangerous.

But no one flagged this. None of his friends said "Ya know, this guy is serious and maybe we should call the cops".

I'm certainly not blaming them for his actions, but perhaps people should consider it a duty to involve law enforcement when it tips the scales to real danger.

While I agree, and almost every other mass shooter has all these warning signs, the problem is that not any single person knows all of those warning signs, it’s pieced together after the fact. But, even if someone did know, what can law enforcement do? He didn’t commit a crime, you can’t put surveillance on him 24/7...

Just a shitty helpless situation

 

[ToMorrow44]

I didn't say they were the enemy I said they were a threat. I'm quite sure you know the difference.

I’m not sure you even know what you’re arguing anymore...

 

[Sandlord]

sounds like the FBI knew about the killer in advance. yeah, that FBI.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/briannasac...-threat-from?utm_term=.jra78bmor1#.ugERWLE97N

 

[BajaT]

Once again those who would be victims fail to help themselves. This asshole was expelled from the school for violent behavior. He made multiple posts on Facebook, etc. indicating he was unstable and dangerous.

But no one flagged this. None of his friends said "Ya know, this guy is serious and maybe we should call the cops".

I'm certainly not blaming them for his actions, but perhaps people should consider it a duty to involve law enforcement when it tips the scales to real danger.

Asked my son, who is in 8th grade, if the teachers ever talk about these events. He said no.....Perhaps having assemblies to bring awareness would go a long way to help prevent future events from happening.

 

[TCHB]

Asked my son, who is in 8th grade, if the teachers ever talk about these events. He said no.....Perhaps having assemblies to bring awareness would go a long way to help prevent future events from happening.

I know they do in high school. They talke about and train for a lock down.

 

[RiverDave]

Thats a win win. Military service needs to be mandatory for at least two years for everyone.

As much as I am for freedom for the government, I tend to agree with that statement.

 

[beaverretriever]

Comparing a guarded school to a police station is a stretch at best. So you are seriously talking about turning a neighborhood school into a paramilitary institution?

I'm not sure you know what paramilitary means. If the school is housing a state/federal funded military or police source it wouldn't be paramilitary.

 

[STV_Keith]

The shooter had a history of gun sales.

Please post a link to the substantiating data.

 

[TCHB]

As much as I am for freedom for the government, I tend to agree with that statement.

Yes I agree with this one. Most likely this guy would have been kicked out.

 

[CLdrinker]

[GALLERY=][/GALLERY]

 

[Flyinbowtie]

I’ll throw this out one more time. I’m breaking my own rule even reading these threads as some of the posts infuriate me, even though it is, “just the internet” as I frequently remind myself.

All the laws on the books, nor any the "most progressive” among us will could dream up will cure what ails this nation.

What is wrong with us is what we have allowed ourselves to become. I you are a true student of history you know that the founding fathers assembled the Constitution after the Declaration and followed by the Bill of Rights, based on some assumptions. Assumptions that we, the people, as citizens, would do our part. That we as people, would not falter in our attention to the state of our union, and guard against the creeping tentacles of government, and it’s false promise of goodies..in exchange for nothing…nothing except the very control of our lives. They further hoped that we would not only maintain our level of morality and even grow it…with the tools they left us. Grow it, improve it, and refine it, always looking towards our past, and the past of humanity as a guide to right and wrong. They hoped our sense of community, and yes, religious and spiritual compasses would stand true, and we would avoid falling into the morass we now face.

And we did pretty good for a long time.

However, somewhere along the line, (and we can debate the exact point of tipping elsewhere) we let things slip. We never look past the symptoms of the problem, we always try to fix the symptoms. Never…not once…do many of us nor the leading darlings of the popular folks in government of the day want to face the core of the problem. Doing so would be political suicide for many, because the light would then shine on them… and as long as the focus is on the symptoms those who seek more centralized power can continue their march toward corrupting what is left of the core values of the country.

Therein lies the problem. The problem is us. It is what we have allowed ourselves to become. It is what we have tolerated, what we have allowed to become culturally acceptable.

We no longer demand personal accountability. In fact, government is held accountable for our behavior. We demand it. There used to be a concept called shame. There used to be a concept by where parents were accountable for their personal actions, and the actions of their children whom they were responsible for raising, teaching how to be good citizens, with a moral compass and the sense of responsibility the comes with being a citizen of a Republic like ours. Parents were expected to set an example. Children were expected to follow it.

There were repercussions, culturally and sometimes legally for failing at either duty. Another old fashioned word. Duty. Where is our sense of duty?

It is now fashionable to laugh at those who seek an, “old fashioned” way, touting personal responsibility and accountability.

Those concepts are now laughed at. Becoming a victim, or being offended, and the expectations of today are the direct result of the sea change that came about when we allowed these fundamental shifts to take place. It started long ago. Our education system began failing in the sixties, and by the time my boys were in sports the participation trophy had arrived. Revisionist history was coming into play. I saw it. I fought it. I have yelled about it repeatedly here.

Just 25 years ago a rifle in the visible rack of a pickup in the local high school during deer season wouldn’t create a second glance. Think about that. Not a second glance.

Today, it would be grounds for arrest, probably cause all classes to be dismissed, and a full on media circus fearing the worst…or would they secretly be wishing fervently for the worst to happen?

And yet, 25 years ago, that rifle laid in that rack day in and day out and nothing happened. No one was offended. No one was victimized by its mere presence. People walked by it, plainly visible, and others in other racks in other trucks, every day, and nothing happened. They were not touched. They were not stolen. They were not taken into campus and used to commit murder.

The people who owned them wouldn’t think of it. They couldn’t think of it. They had no concept of it. The students were not afraid of it, the parents knew it the rifle was there and had taught the personal responsibility and accountability that came with owning it. The culture demanded it. The community would accept nothing less, because it was our duty as citizens. We demanded accountability from ourselves, and then from the judicial system when we had someone fail.

It is us, the people who have changed.

And that high school is changed, a ton. The people who run it, the people who pay for it, the community in which they live have changed. The standards…almost all of them, have changed. It has changed because we have let it, and some of us, either knowingly or just buying what the changers are selling have gone along.

Since we allowed ourselves to get this far off course theoretically we should be able to get back on course. Frankly, I don’t think that it will happen. Too many generations have been indoctrinated into the new ways, into believing in government as the source of all the answers, into the new world of victimhood, of the concept that we have a right to never be offended, into the collapse of the culture as being a good thing.

Frankly, I think maps on the internet of areas to avoid in major cities due to human waste on the streets, and the subsequent cry for more government to fix the problem is a sign. Those cities, most run by True Believers, claim to be the great source of enlightenment. Indeed.
Where one deposits such items is apparently the last line of responsibility to fall. I wonder if said Believers are ever offended when they step in the pile of human excrement on the way to work?

Of course, they avoid those areas personally.

 

[Driptruck]

Not that it is an answer but my sons new school was setup so you have to enter through the office to enter after school has started. All doors have automatic locks that lock when the bell rings. At least this helps to reduce "outside threats" I don't feel "safe" but it is far better than nothing. I for one believe that every school should have one unnamed staff member fully trained (special training) and everyone should know it. I would spare no expense on that program, give the person the resources they need and I feel it would reduce these tragedys.

I also believe that kids in publis schools are not taught the value of human life like those in private school. I am not putting this on the school I am talking about the parents. I know my brothers kids go to private school and through religion they are taught to value eachother. I believe the internet devalues human live in general. Just look at the way we talk to eachother online, kids are worse than we are.

 

[j21black]

They need to put military recruitment centers in the schools with a small armory. Trained / armed security for free, puts them in front of their target audience.. Saves military from paying rent in strip malls etc.

RD

Boom! #mindblown

 

[HOOTER SLED-]

These are the types of sick fucks that need to be executed by public hanging or firing range. Take that shit old school. If they have video....there is no mistaking him. No boo hoo he was troubled....no victim of circumstance..just boom, he straight up did it. And if I were a parent of one of the kids murdered....I'd volunteer to kick the chair out from under that bitch or be on the firing squad. Fuck that muther fucker.

 

[j21black]

Yes it does. We are talking about "trained" people who have taken classes and been awarded the right to carry in public. They are still considered the biggest threat by experts in the field.

When was your last mental evaluation?

 

[wsuwrhr]

Hear, hear sir.

As always.

Brian

I’ll throw this out one more time. I’m breaking my own rule even reading these threads as some of the posts infuriate me, even though it is, “just the internet” as I frequently remind myself.

All the laws on the books, nor any the "most progressive” among us will could dream up will cure what ails this nation.

What is wrong with us is what we have allowed ourselves to become. I you are a true student of history you know that the founding fathers assembled the Constitution after the Declaration and followed by the Bill of Rights, based on some assumptions. Assumptions that we, the people, as citizens, would do our part. That we as people, would not falter in our attention to the state of our union, and guard against the creeping tentacles of government, and it’s false promise of goodies..in exchange for nothing…nothing except the very control of our lives. They further hoped that we would not only maintain our level of morality and even grow it…with the tools they left us. Grow it, improve it, and refine it, always looking towards our past, and the past of humanity as a guide to right and wrong. They hoped our sense of community, and yes, religious and spiritual compasses would stand true, and we would avoid falling into the morass we now face.

And we did pretty good for a long time.

However, somewhere along the line, (and we can debate the exact point of tipping elsewhere) we let things slip. We never look past the symptoms of the problem, we always try to fix the symptoms. Never…not once…do many of us nor the leading darlings of the popular folks in government of the day want to face the core of the problem. Doing so would be political suicide for many, because the light would then shine on them… and as long as the focus is on the symptoms those who seek more centralized power can continue their march toward corrupting what is left of the core values of the country.

Therein lies the problem. The problem is us. It is what we have allowed ourselves to become. It is what we have tolerated, what we have allowed to become culturally acceptable.

We no longer demand personal accountability. In fact, government is held accountable for our behavior. We demand it. There used to be a concept called shame. There used to be a concept by where parents were accountable for their personal actions, and the actions of their children whom they were responsible for raising, teaching how to be good citizens, with a moral compass and the sense of responsibility the comes with being a citizen of a Republic like ours. Parents were expected to set an example. Children were expected to follow it.

There were repercussions, culturally and sometimes legally for failing at either duty. Another old fashioned word. Duty. Where is our sense of duty?

It is now fashionable to laugh at those who seek an, “old fashioned” way, touting personal responsibility and accountability.

Those concepts are now laughed at. Becoming a victim, or being offended, and the expectations of today are the direct result of the sea change that came about when we allowed these fundamental shifts to take place. It started long ago. Our education system began failing in the sixties, and by the time my boys were in sports the participation trophy had arrived. Revisionist history was coming into play. I saw it. I fought it. I have yelled about it repeatedly here.

Just 25 years ago a rifle in the visible rack of a pickup in the local high school during deer season wouldn’t create a second glance. Think about that. Not a second glance.

Today, it would be grounds for arrest, probably cause all classes to be dismissed, and a full on media circus fearing the worst…or would they secretly be wishing fervently for the worst to happen?

And yet, 25 years ago, that rifle laid in that rack day in and day out and nothing happened. No one was offended. No one was victimized by its mere presence. People walked by it, plainly visible, and others in other racks in other trucks, every day, and nothing happened. They were not touched. They were not stolen. They were not taken into campus and used to commit murder.

The people who owned them wouldn’t think of it. They couldn’t think of it. They had no concept of it. The students were not afraid of it, the parents knew it the rifle was there and had taught the personal responsibility and accountability that came with owning it. The culture demanded it. The community would accept nothing less, because it was our duty as citizens. We demanded accountability from ourselves, and then from the judicial system when we had someone fail.

It is us, the people who have changed.

And that high school is changed, a ton. The people who run it, the people who pay for it, the community in which they live have changed. The standards…almost all of them, have changed. It has changed because we have let it, and some of us, either knowingly or just buying what the changers are selling have gone along.

Since we allowed ourselves to get this far off course theoretically we should be able to get back on course. Frankly, I don’t think that it will happen. Too many generations have been indoctrinated into the new ways, into believing in government as the source of all the answers, into the new world of victimhood, of the concept that we have a right to never be offended, into the collapse of the culture as being a good thing.

Frankly, I think maps on the internet of areas to avoid in major cities due to human waste on the streets, and the subsequent cry for more government to fix the problem is a sign. Those cities, most run by True Believers, claim to be the great source of enlightenment. Indeed.
Where one deposits such items is apparently the last line of responsibility to fall. I wonder if said Believers are ever offended when they step in the pile of human excrement on the way to work?

Of course, they avoid those areas personally.

 

[GRADS]

The gunman.

 

[wsuwrhr]

Society in general should be prepared to do exactly that.

These are the types of sick fucks that need to be executed by public hanging or firing range. Take that shit old school. If they have video....there is no mistaking him. No boo hoo he was troubled....no victim of circumstance..just boom, he straight up did it. And if I were a parent of one of the kids murdered....I'd volunteer to kick the chair out from under that bitch or be on the firing squad. Fuck that muther fucker.

 

[Advantage 1]

Thats a win win. Military service needs to be mandatory for at least two years for everyone.

As much as I am for freedom for the government, I tend to agree with that statement.

Not exactly sure what you two are saying. You think everyone in the United States needs to spend 2 years in some sort of military service?

 

[lbhsbz]

Not that it is an answer but my sons new school was setup so you have to enter through the office to enter after school has started. All doors have automatic locks that lock when the bell rings. At least this helps to reduce "outside threats" I don't feel "safe" but it is far better than nothing. I for one believe that every school should have one unnamed staff member fully trained (special training) and everyone should know it. I would spare no expense on that program, give the person the resources they need and I feel it would reduce these tragedys.

I also believe that kids in publis schools are not taught the value of human life like those in private school. I am not putting this on the school I am talking about the parents. I know my brothers kids go to private school and through religion they are taught to value eachother. I believe the internet devalues human live in general. Just look at the way we talk to eachother online, kids are worse than we are.

My son's private school is similar...I was shocked the first time I went to drop off something that he'd forgotten at home. All the rooms are locked, and all the windows covered so nobody can even see in the rooms from the outside. Knocking on the door accomplished nothing. I had to go find the principal's office, then she escorted me to the room, and made a call on her radio, back to the office, so the office could call the room and have the teacher open the door. I guess it's a good precaution, but I hate that it has to be this way.

 

[GRADS]

Not exactly sure what you two are saying. You think everyone in the United States needs to spend 2 years in some sort of military service?

And then everyone can have free health benefits for the rest of their lives!!! Sweet! It would definitely solve the healthcare crisis.

 

[j21black]

These are the types of sick fucks that need to be executed by public hanging or firing range. .

Nah - Screw hanging them....Skin them alive...On PPV - Revenue is applied to the National Debt....

 

[RiverDave]

Not exactly sure what you two are saying. You think everyone in the United States needs to spend 2 years in some sort of military service?

Yes