Ozempic or ? anyone here using it for weight loss ?

[gqchris]

What I do not get is why it is so much cheaper to eat crap food vs healthy food. Probably cheaper to manufacture than healthy.

Makes No Sense why Salads are $15.00+. I dont get it.

We only buy natural, organic and clean food now such as Sprouts and Joels Meat. It is a HUGE expense but I don't want to regret to continue eating processed shit that kills me.

 

[BabyRay]

I’m about 20 lbs. overweight, am struggling to lose the weight (and losing the battle), and would be interested in trying Ozempic or such. But, everything I’ve read says it’s risky for seniors (70 here).

I suppose I could ask my doctor about it, but I’m pretty sure he’d discourage it, so I need to be fully informed before I go. If any of the old farts around here have any experience or knowledge, or anybody can point out sources of positive information regarding the age issue with these drugs, I’d love to hear it.

Please don’t preach about how to eat, or how much water. It’s all been said. Plus, my food choices aren’t too bad…..I’m just hungry all the damn time.

 

[Justfishing]

So you’re a registered dietician? That’s a great addition the the board if so… mind if I ask where your degree is from and where you’re registered to practice?

Maybe I misinterpreted and you are an endocrinologist? Same questions.

You probably dont want to take advice from a registered dietician. The governing body gets most of thier funding from big pharma or big food. Do you think they going to tell you not to eat twinkies. Do you think they would show you a diet that would reverse diabetes or prediabetes. I can show you a diet that would work.

Go back and look at pictures from the 1930s and count the fat people. Look at a similar picture from today. Most will be over weight or obese. The diet your dr , dieticians etc recommend is the problem.

This is a diet problem. Sugar, grains/flour and vegtabale oils. Cut those out of your diet and you loose weight and get healthier.

You dont need to be a dietician to recognize that

 

[Floaterboat]

I sat on this for a day or so... I have no qualms about where I am...and you have no knowledge of it. If you are sincere I appreciate the sentiment..

A negativity has infected this forum in areas...often by "new" posters. A piece of advice, whether you take it or not (or stay). Many of us know eachother offline, hang out, do lake/desert/snow stuff together. Some of us have kids who are in the same classes, grandkids who associate whatever... While this board is big...many of the core "frequent" posters are not hidden behind a screen name. They are helping each other with RDP Express, kids fundraisers, events, a beer in the garage, a solution to a problem, advice, and yes in this case health discussions...even if inmates don't know eachother offline some epic friendships have been formed, favors done, fundraisers you name it..this board is full of some of the greatest men (and women) I've come to know in life. I don't honestly care what your opinion of me is...nor my choices on a health or fitness journey... Some others on here yea I may care a bit..because they are people I associate with..and their thoughts/encouragement matter... Some random noob who bashes people who realize there is an issue and want to do something about it? Yea no...but the negativity by a select few is a cancer that I hope is addressed.. I'm going to follow some other recently departed friends this year and take a break, idk if permanent or not..but the fucking negative energy infecting this place gets old.

I've gotta ask... "did someone shit in your cooler bro?"

Can be anything.. The negativity is getting really old. I'm proud AF of anyone in this thread that realized they had a problem and dealt with it regardless of the method...those that bashed people?

Anymore..good threads go south and the same people seem to piss in them.. Everyones solution, health, timeline, etc are different.. Stupid AF to bash anyone trying too better themselves...and I doubt they'd have the stones to say the same shit in public.

I’m glad you sat on it and put some thought into a response.

Challenging someone’s thinking is not being negative. My initial response was not directed to you, you responded to it and I asked you a direct question in kind.

I’ll ask the initial question more directly - Why given everything we have learned in the last several years would you trust Big Pharma with much of anything regarding your health?

There was not an obesity problem in this country 50 years ago. The life expectancy in this country is shrinking, not growing. We have been lied to about drugs and food. That is not our fault, but at some point you either live with it and die unhealthy and young, or take things into your own hands, do the research, and do the work to improve. No one is perfect, it is a journey for everyone.

These drugs were initially for Diabetes. Now they are being applied to weight loss. The thread here is pertaining to weight loss. Why would they market these drugs for weight loss? Because of $$$ as we all know.

We are all adults here and have been around awhile. What miracle weight loss drug has come out and not been pulled off the market? I can think of half a dozen easily. They all caused everything from nausea, “loose stools” to cancer and death.

If this drug causes you problems later in life, then what? There is a high probability it will given the past history of these types of miracle drugs.

As I said, there was not an obesity problem 50 years ago. How most people got there is probably very obvious when you look at their habits and how society drives behavior.

You can’t dismiss the concerns and questions of the collective that have to pay for your choices as negativity. If we replaced obesity with smoking, and if you don’t smoke, you would obviously say no, you don’t want your individual costs to go up because of the poor choices of others that smoke.

Nevertheless, It is a free country, and that is the sandbox we are stuck in. The collective pays for the bad choices of the individual. If your insurance covers it, go for it. If you want to buy Ozempic outside insurance and use it, great. If it gets you where you want to be in 6 months, a year or whatever it takes, perfect.

If it comes out this stuff kills you slowly if you use it too much or too long, don’t say people are being negative when they point out they asked those questions at the beginning.

My point is that if you are paying out of pocket, and used the money to buy better food and create better habits instead of the drug, it would probably take longer to get there, but you would have better results over the span of your life. That’s not negativity.

 

[Boatymcboatface]

The best thing to these diet weight loss threads is all the excuses.

My friend was fit and died young

I don’t have time

Dr full of crap

I know some people truly have a problem losing weight but it’s a very small percentage.

It’s no secret if you crush a medium pizza, slam a 12 pack of coors light you won’t lose weight.

And yes I was fat before not 400lbs fat only 260lbs fat but if I didn’t change something I was well on my way!

 

[Riverbound]

You probably dont want to take advice from a registered dietician. The governing body gets most of thier funding from big pharma or big food. Do you think they going to tell you not to eat twinkies. Do you think they would show you a diet that would reverse diabetes or prediabetes. I can show you a diet that would work.

Go back and look at pictures from the 1930s and count the fat people. Look at a similar picture from today. Most will be over weight or obese. The diet your dr , dieticians etc recommend is the problem.

This is a diet problem. Sugar, grains/flour and vegtabale oils. Cut those out of your diet and you loose weight and get healthier.

You dont need to be a dietician to recognize that

Eating real food is key.

One of the pages I follow had a post the other day. That simply said instead of counting calories count ingredients.

We have been doing that and are seeing a huge change in my house. We eat Joel’s beef, use real butter, salt and are slowly cutting foods and condiments with too many ingredients.

Eating out less and less and doing much more meal prep. When we do eat out we can really feel the effects when we eat bad.

Eating “heathy, low fat, sugar free, etc etc” foods are actually the worst for you due to all the chemicals.

 

[bentprops]

And how might you get all of your protein needs? Assuming you want to build or at minimum maintain.

I did intermittent fasting for a while. Stopped and went to breakfast, lunch, and dinner. Small snacks mixed in. 1+ gram of protein per body pound. I quickly saw more gains and reduced fat. (I keep track with an inbody scan regularly) I could not hit those goals (protein and calories) by fasting.

At the end of the day, you need to eat healthy and clean.

With fasting, at 16 hours your body makes HGH, at 20 it makes stem cells, these are the thngs the altra elite are paying 100,s of thousands to have injected into them. So they live longer, look younger and be healthier. Lots of benifiests from fasting you can't get from eating healthy. Including killing cancer.

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

It’s about $1k/mo without insurance. My mom was on it and it probably saved her life. She lost ~50 pounds.

Generally, woman doesn’t admit to being on it. I grew up on balboa island, I knew the type. Their world is shattered the first time they have to pay for a drink and it’s all downhill from there.

JaJaJa... truth. This chicks a different breed than those OC gals though she did a marriage there for a bit... Nebraska gal originally and on her 3rd husband down here and already bought two houses. She's a badass and her husband strikes me as a 3 year long guy who so far stays the fuck outta her way just happy to have his deal. Those Newport princesses would never last a month in Baja.

 

[HubbaHubbaLife]

They are not comparisons, they are reality.

Thus, a balance for me on both. My family, despite many members being diabetic, has longevity (90+). In my situation, I don't go overboard on either because death due to car accidents and other circumstances is no stranger in my life.

I have a friend who can care less about his health. He drinks and smokes and does lines and who knows what else. All he cares about is having a good time, and everybody loves him for it.

If we both die tomorrow, he wins. I was the dumbass always preparing for tomorrow.

My ears were burning......

 

[Badchoices03]

Man, RDP is wild, we can argue about anything....lol...

 

[Justfishing]

The best thing to these diet weight loss threads is all the excuses.

My friend was fit and died young

I don’t have time

Dr full of crap

I know some people truly have a problem losing weight but it’s a very small percentage.

It’s no secret if you crush a medium pizza, slam a 12 pack of coors light you won’t lose weight.

And yes I was fat before not 400lbs fat only 260lbs fat but if I didn’t change something I was well on my way!

We need to quit blaming the individual. You have government dietary guidelines that are at the heart of the problem. You have drugs companies profitting in so many ways. You have the medical association that treats illness but doesnt prevent.

We have kids that go to school and through lunch programs are fed garbage and taught it is the proper way to eat.

The dietary guidelines say to eliminate fat. We take out natural healthy fats and replace them with industrial lubricants i.e vegetable oil (they were originally developed for industrial use). We removed fat and replaced it with sugar. Pick up any processed food and they have surgar oil and flour.
At one time fatty liver disease was Called alcoholic fatty liver disease. Now kids get it because sugar is in every thing. Give them fruit juice and they get as much sugar as a coke. Give your kid a gogurt and it has 33 grams of sugar. Ketchup has 5 grams of sugar. What about peanutbutter and jelly. The health journey of our kids starts young. Fruit is mostly sugar and is not the healthy treat you think it is. A small apple has 19 grams of fructose. Ad that to the sugar load you already consume.

Lets talk about nutrition from carbs. Carbs provide no esstienal nutrients. You can live without carbs. If carbs are so essential how is it that you can litterally eat zero carbs and be healthy. Look at pictures of dr baker who has won body building contests in his age groyo. Look at dr ken berry who is in his 50s. Dr chaffee is another.

Fats and protien provide essential nutrients. Carbs do not. Protien are the building blocks of muscle and bones. The fuel is provided by carbs and fats. Fats will make you feel full, eat a pound of fatty steak and you will be full. How many of us ate a big meal of say pasta and soon we in the pantry looking for a bedtime snack.

If the american populace continues following dietary guidelines you get from your doctor and government we will continue to be sick

More and more people questioning what the estabt is pushing. Keto and carnivore is growing but it wont be promoted by those who have something to loose. It grows by those of us who have adopted a keto or carnivore diet and share how we achieved our success.

Dont blame yourself or look down on others. Dont think you are meant to be fat and cant do anything. It is never to late to change your diet. If you are one that has tried regular diets and failed dont be discourgaged. Give it a 30 day try. What do you have to lose.

 

[Justfishing]

 

[RitcheyRch]

Port strike fallout: Blockbuster weight-loss drug supply from Wegovy to Ozempic, Mounjaro, Zepbound, caught up in East Coast trade shutdown​

https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/01/port-strike-blockbuster-weight-loss-drug-supply-trade-shutdown.html

 

[clarence]

 

[jetboatperformance]

Got approval from two of my doctors for Wegovy or Mounjaro or Zepbound waiting to see if Insurance will approve based on overweight and heart health as I'm not diabetic , Those that warn about long term effects (even my PHD Daughter ) when you mid seventies and need to control weight and BP the potential "long term" side effects and pretty much outweighed by the need and desire to simply loose some weight , much past 70 there isnt alot of meaning to "long term"

 

[jetboatperformance]

What an ordeal , anyone considering this LMK , so far I have found that the "online programs" are you paying a membership , not actually buying the "juice" and generally they are a rip off (more on this later) Also My Medicare and HC supplements wont pay for any of the scripts $$$ so after weeks of BS I got the legit hook up, I'll let that person chime in here if they want to . Today I start my treatments after fed ex gets here i'm at 230 and have a ways to go I'm already in the "mindset" to do this and have dramatically cut my portions and consumption. The reality is when I married my wife I was 165 not sure I'll get back there but ya gotta have goals . As for the naysayers , when your 70+ and overweight and work two jobs , simple diet and exercise is not in the cards , as for side effects I'll take them as they arise Wish me luck

 

[Done-it-again]

What an ordeal , anyone considering this LMK , so far I have found that the "online programs" are you paying a membership , not actually buying the "juice" and generally they are a rip off (more on this later) Also My Medicare and HC supplements wont pay for any of the scripts $$$ so after weeks of BS I got the legit hook up, I'll let that person chime in here if they want to . Today I start my treatments after fed ex gets here i'm at 230 and have a ways to go I'm already in the "mindset" to do this and have dramatically cut my portions and consumption. The reality is when I married my wife I was 165 not sure I'll get back there but ya gotta have goals . As for the naysayers , when your 70+ and overweight and work two jobs , simple diet and exercise is not in the cards , as for side effects I'll take them as they arise Wish me luck

Good for you....Good luck!

 

[90 Laveycraft]

What an ordeal , anyone considering this LMK , so far I have found that the "online programs" are you paying a membership , not actually buying the "juice" and generally they are a rip off (more on this later) Also My Medicare and HC supplements wont pay for any of the scripts $$$ so after weeks of BS I got the legit hook up, I'll let that person chime in here if they want to . Today I start my treatments after fed ex gets here i'm at 230 and have a ways to go I'm already in the "mindset" to do this and have dramatically cut my portions and consumption. The reality is when I married my wife I was 165 not sure I'll get back there but ya gotta have goals . As for the naysayers , when your 70+ and overweight and work two jobs , simple diet and exercise is not in the cards , as for side effects I'll take them as they arise Wish me luck

Keto diet here...62 years old, have lost 30 pounds in 4 months...food change only.
1600 calorie/10 carbs day. Zero exercise.

 

[DRYHEAT]

Keto diet here...62 years old, have lost 30 pounds in 4 months...food change only.
1600 calorie/10 carbs day. Zero exercise.

The hard part with keto is staying on it, it’s really easy to stray. I almost hate the holidays now because people are shoving goodies in my face all the time and I’m like a drug addict looking for his next fix.

 

[liquid addiction]

I started last week. I just took my 2nd shot today. We are going on a 7 day cruise in a couple weeks. I’ll have to see how this goes.

 

[Nosocks]

What an ordeal , anyone considering this LMK , so far I have found that the "online programs" are you paying a membership , not actually buying the "juice" and generally they are a rip off (more on this later) Also My Medicare and HC supplements wont pay for any of the scripts $$$ so after weeks of BS I got the legit hook up, I'll let that person chime in here if they want to . Today I start my treatments after fed ex gets here i'm at 230 and have a ways to go I'm already in the "mindset" to do this and have dramatically cut my portions and consumption. The reality is when I married my wife I was 165 not sure I'll get back there but ya gotta have goals . As for the naysayers , when your 70+ and overweight and work two jobs , simple diet and exercise is not in the cards , as for side effects I'll take them as they arise Wish me luck

I thought my primary care said there was a combination of manufacture rebates and stuff that would drag the cash price to 500-600/month but i may have misunderstood that or it was regarding a different drug.

There are some companies selling the drugs as dissolving tablets that you hold in your mouth and they absorb through the mucus membrane of your mouth.

I get the pens as my insurance covered it. $30 copay usually but my out of pocket was already hit due to a surgery this year so it's $0 for now.

 

[Nosocks]

I thought my primary care said there was a combination of manufacture rebates and stuff that would drag the cash price to 500-600/month but i may have misunderstood that or it was regarding a different drug.

There are some companies selling the drugs as dissolving tablets that you hold in your mouth and they absorb through the mucus membrane of your mouth.

I get the pens as my insurance covered it. $30 copay usually but my out of pocket was already hit due to a surgery this year so it's $0 for now.

Here's the one I was thinking of. No clue if the place is any good.

Oral Tirzepatide (Zepbound® Active Ingredient), Prescribed

Enjoy the benefits of oral Tirzepatide: affordability, no needles & more. Get sublingual Tirzepatide delivered to you, if prescribed. Talk to a provider.

henrymeds.com

 

[Nosocks]

I started last week. I just took my 2nd shot today. We are going on a 7 day cruise in a couple weeks. I’ll have to see how this goes.

Bring some allergy meds including some topical versions just in case. Some folks get an itchy flare up at the injection site as a mild allergic reaction - though some aren't so mild.

 

[jetboatperformance]

I saw this about Ozempic today and found it poignant after two knees and a hip .... https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/ot...S&cvid=ff6375372f734439b2d6107129266485&ei=70

BTW I'm down about 8 pounds in three weeks since starting Mounjaro

 

[OC Daytona]

Nice update Tom. Clinical trials have also shown a 38% reduction in strokes and heart events even in ppl that haven't lost a lot of weight.

 

[jetboatperformance]

Nice update Tom. Clinical trials have also shown a 38% reduction in strokes and heart events even in ppl that haven't lost a lot of weight.

Just saw this too , a similar med GDF15

MSN

 

[gqchris]

Just checking in: I am down 35 lbs. only 100 more to go!!!

 

[H20 Toie]

Just checking in: I am down 35 lbs. only 100 more to go!!!

Way to go, i'm kind of bummed, Walgreens has been backordered on my Mounjaro so ive missed a week, now i'm going to key west, and i have such good self control plus with the drinking it's sure to be big step back. hopefully get some before i go,

 

[boatnam2]

Way to go, i'm kind of bummed, Walgreens has been backordered on my Mounjaro so ive missed a week, now i'm going to key west, and i have such good self control plus with the drinking it's sure to be big step back. hopefully get some before i go,

I got 3 10MG you can have

 

[OC Daytona]

Just checking in: I am down 35 lbs. only 100 more to go!!!

That's a great start Chris. How long have you been on it?

 

[H20 Toie]

I got 3 10MG you can have

Thats awesome but i'm not to that level yet

 

[boatnam2]

Thats awesome but i'm not to that level yet

You get to that level you eat a peanut and your full. Well if anyone else needs them let me know, trade for a 12'er of CL'S

 

[cofooter]

You get to that level you eat a peanut and your full. Well if anyone else needs them let me know, trade for a 12'er of CL'S

Ohhh, the irony, haha

 

[CLCookie]

I have been fighting Diabetes now over ten years, Metformin has been helping along with changing my diet, but we can't get my A1C below 7. Today I take my 2nd shot of Ozempic. I am not taking it for weight loss, but I could lose 20lbs and be at my weight 30 years ago. I go back into the doctor in 3 months, we will see if we can get this lower.

FYI, my father died of kidney failure (during a back surgery), and my younger brother is on Dialysis (waiting on Kidney transplant) at 50 years old. I need to get this in control. 50 years ago, people never even worried about this disease.

 

[OC Daytona]

You might also want to look at Berberine, an over the counter supplement you can get at Costco and on Amazon. It helped me get my A1c from 6.5 down to 5.2.
My doc recommended it over Metformin. Less side effects and worked faster for me and my brother.

 

[spark2678]

32 lbs here, 38 more to go. Started Tirzepatide August 15th. I'm at 11 weeks so that is around 2.9lbs per week. So far fairly simple, few side effects but not bad. I also on a mostly high protein/keto diet. I take 1/2 doses every 3.5d instead of the full dose at 7. The GLP-1 meds just don't allow you to eat as much and I am also rarely hungry, I almost have to force myself to eat at times. I also have very little craving for any type of alcohol, that has been cut WAY back.

I am using Fella Health, they have been great. Around $350/mo. Probably saving that on food!

 

[TimeBandit]

You might also want to look at Berberine, an over the counter supplement you can get at Costco and on Amazon. It helped me get my A1c from 6.5 down to 5.2.
My doc recommended it over Metformin. Less side effects and worked faster for me and my brother.

At what dosage? how many mg / how often??

 

[jetboatperformance]

32 lbs here, 38 more to go. Started Tirzepatide August 15th. I'm at 11 weeks so that is around 2.9lbs per week. So far fairly simple, few side effects but not bad. I also on a mostly high protein/keto diet. I take 1/2 doses every 3.5d instead of the full dose at 7. The GLP-1 meds just don't allow you to eat as much and I am also rarely hungry, I almost have to force myself to eat at times. I also have very little craving for any type of alcohol, that has been cut WAY back.

I am using Fella Health, they have been great. Around $350/mo. Probably saving that on food!

​

Half doses a week @ 3.5 ?

 

[spark2678]

​

Half doses a week @ 3.5 ?

1/2 doses every 3.5 days @ 3.75 units. I am at 7.5 units per week. Don't plan on moving up anytime soon.

 

[GRANT@FUNCO]

GLP-1 through Amino Asylum
3 cc every 3.5 days
Down 65 lbs since May
No side effects

 

[HotRod82]

GLP-1 through Amino Asylum
3 cc every 3.5 days
Down 65 lbs since May
No side effects

What do you think is your calorie intake now vs. before GLP?
My neighbor has been on it for 6 months or so and she just doesn't eat anymore. The GLP has destroyed her appetite, for better or for worse.

 

[GRANT@FUNCO]

Been on every diet imaginable my whole life , and I suck at regimented diets. Keto ,Carnivore , Jenny Craig etc . I just won't folllow . I also don't count calories , carbs
Trust me when I tell you I am doing it all wrong. During the week I eat a small dinner and that's it. Weekends , traveling dunes, boating . I eat normal only in small portions. Only because everybody else does.

The single biggest thing is in the evening while watching TV or reading I just don't have the urge to POUND the PANTRY . That trigger is just switched off

 

[spark2678]

Been on every diet imaginable my whole life , and I suck at regimented diets. Keto ,Carnivore , Jenny Craig etc . I just won't folllow . I also don't count calories , carbs
Trust me when I tell you I am doing it all wrong. During the week I eat a small dinner and that's it. Weekends , traveling dunes, boating . I eat normal only in small portions. Only because everybody else does.

The single biggest thing is in the evening while watching TV or reading I just don't have the urge to POUND the PANTRY . That trigger is just switched off

I feel the same way in all aspects Grant. Also, I mainly eat just dinners as well and they are still way smaller portions. Where before if I fasted all day, I would come home and "pound the pantry." I just don't have that urge to eat.

"Weekends , traveling dunes, boating . I eat normal only in small portions. Only because everybody else does." Same here.

 

[90 Laveycraft]

Keto diet here...62 years old, have lost 30 pounds in 4 months...food change only.
1600 calorie/10 carbs day. Zero exercise.

Don't want, or believe in the magic pill or shot - you are what you eat!

 

[Caydens Cat]

Don't want, or believe in the magic pill or shot - you are what you eat!

Meow

 

[CLCookie]

GLP-1 through Amino Asylum
3 cc every 3.5 days
Down 65 lbs since May
No side effects

And you look amazing XOXO

 

[jetboatperformance]

I’ve been down that road, too. My joints started limiting my workouts, and I gained weight faster than I expected. I looked into both Ozempic and Wegovy and ended up giving Ozempic a try after talking it over with my doctor. The appetite control was the real game changer—it wasn’t overnight, but over a few months, I felt a noticeable difference. It let me manage my portions better without feeling like I was constantly battling hunger. It also worked well alongside lighter exercises that didn’t put too much strain on my knees and hip.

Theres a post I made earlier in this thread about benefits for Arthritis sufferers too I believe

 

[jetboatperformance]

5 Weeks in lost about 12 lbs food has no appeal now but I still eat , beer is probably my down fall cause it still tastes good , no real side effects except my minor patches of plaque psoriasis that I've struggled with for several years is gone ? (no I'm not Diabetic)



AI : Glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1) receptor agonists (RAs) may improve psoriasis symptoms, and may be used to treat both psoriasis and type 2 diabetes

 

[OC Daytona]

5 Weeks in lost about 12 lbs food has no appeal now but I still eat , beer is probably my down fall cause it still tastes good , no real side effects except my minor patches of plaque psoriasis that I've struggled with for several years is gone ? (no I'm not Diabetic)



AI : Glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1) receptor agonists (RAs) may improve psoriasis symptoms, and may be used to treat both psoriasis and type 2 diabetes

Congrats Tom. Glad you're seeing some benefits. Prob see more with less beer, but ya gotta enjoy life too

What dose are you taking now? How many mg per week?

 

[Howardflat]

Ive been on Monjaro a few months. Im type 2 diabetic so its covered 100% by my insurance. I worked my way up in mg to finally get the weight loss and my numbers in check. Ive lost 20 lbs and my A1C is 5.7 with a fasting blood sugar of 94. Which is awesome for me. Im the lightest Ive been my adult life. My advice is to lift weights. You lose a bunch of muscle while on these drugs. For some reason only the 7.5mg dose gave me side affects. Cramps and the shits and wasnt losing any weight. Went to 10mgs and had no more side affects.