Need power of RDP. Call out thread time!!

[DLC]

Another way to look at it is….

Flat Top did the right thing for HIS Customer, he forwarded the boat onto the next guy to make progress on the repairs needed to trailer. He set aside his business rules in order to BEST serve his customer ! Sounds like Flat Top & Kris is an Absolute Stand up guy & a good shop to get work complete.

He could of said NOPE boat won’t be released to the next shop until payment has been made, it can sit outside in the sun, wind and possibly rain as long as it takes…

 

[retaocleg]

worked with and known kris for years and the 2 things i know.......1 he is a stand up guy, and 2 he is not a bullshitter

there are only a few people id believe just because they say, and kris is one of them

 

[Missmy50]

I've been reading this thread since the beginning. I myself didn't care if it was the trailer shop or detailer that got hosed as it was originally stated by accident. Well first off I'd like to say I was the one that worked on the boat. I know this issue first hand, this boat was purchased without a pre-buy inspection and we were asked to service it, and find his intermittent overheat issue. When it came in it was a basket case, and when we found what we did during the service the owner Paul was called and notified of what we found. Paul had said he paid top dollar for the boat and it wasn't inspected but he's a big boy and can handle himself, then continued and asked to keep him posted on any and all other issues.

During the repairs there were numerous pictures taken, texts messages authorizing us to do the repairs needed and many phones with updates, that I heard and seen. I myself went through the boat to make sure NOTHING was wrong with it and it was safe to put his family in it. There was broken fuel lines, drive issues, coupler issue, thermostat and cooler issues. Everything was addressed as requested in calls and texts. He even requested a NEW prop be installed as he wasn't seeing optimal RPMs, and we did that. After the fact that Paul bought a $15k-ish drive from max machine worx, we kinda felt bad for the guy buying the boat that needed so much work, that im not to sure that ALL the hours i had logged into the boat repairs were applied to the bill. NOW after seeing what's been said in texts and not returning calls, that I don't feel so bad anymore. Just pay your bill Paul. You asked us to fix it right , and authorized us to and I did.

 

[Bigbore500r]

Thought it might be time I chime in here to get the facts straight.

First off, Wet Hull is one of my long term customers and friend. We talked Wednesday morning to discuss repairs to his drive and go over scheduled work to his boat.
Topic gravitated to the fact that I believe I had been taken to the sum of $7400. In no way did I solicit him to start this tread on my behalf, simply conversation among friends. He took it and went with it, in hopes of supporting me and protecting this boating community. The only non factually statement from the OP is that he stated a detailer had not been paid when it was actually a trailer shop.

I"ve been in Lake Havasu since 1994 when I came to work for Harry @ Advantage boats. I was the lead rigger there for 10 yrs. Rigged over 600 boats for them in that time period. I left in 2004 to go to work with Magic boats, lead rigger, production manager, head of R&D. Magic closed in April 2009, Had to lay off just about everybody under me. One of the hardest things I ever had to do. Worked for Steve at Flattops for 7 yrs. before he sold and I took over the business in 2015. I know a thing or two about boats.

Mr. Owens called me to discuss his issues with the boat. A 200x 27 Advantage Victory with a 575sci engine. Most notably he was having an overheating issue that had plagued him all summer, along with a service.
Upon inspection of the boat, it was clearly not maintained properly by the previous owner.
Fuel fitting breaking off in my hand, oil cooler completely plugged 90% from old impeller and pebbles. Worst I've ever seen. fuel pump ruptured, engine coupler worn just to the point of failure. Now it's time to contact Mr. Owen.
upon our conservation. I told him he should have done a Prebuy inspection & he responded with "I was too anxious to get the boat, I didn't want to wait, I'm a big boy."

Moving on, it was decided the engine needed to come out to replace the engine coupler. At that time I advised him that it would be a wise move to replace the gimble housing seal. With the engine out we would save him down the road with an expensive repair. He agreed.
At no time did I ever quote Mr. Owen $2500! This was an ongoing conversation and every issue that arose was talked about price individually. Pulling an engine and replacing a coupler alone would be over that dollar figure. Part #8m0098797 $1183.93

Fact: I have-
67 text messages
15 pictures
23 phone conversations logged with Mr. Owens

At NO time was he not aware of the situation or the costs of these services!
The list goes on...
Bad water pump
Fuel pump rupture took out pump housing, bearings, and seals
No thermostat, T. housing completely clogged with decay, no check balls
Reseal both trim rams
Fix broken fuel fitting
Replace gimble bearing, bellows, and shift cable
Drive had heavy metal particulates on drain plug magnets
Send both steerings rams off to IMCO for resealing. They don't sell the seals any longer to repair shops due to liability issues
Replace steering bushings
Install NEW propeller
Pickup drive from Max. Machine to install.
My guess is any of you reading this would not expect these services for FREE! They add up quickly!
Is Mr. Owens bad at math or did he ever plan on paying?

MY BAD!!
I took him for his word he was good with everything.
I let a boat out of my shop without being paid in full.
I trusted a 27 yr. relationship with Advantage to hold the boat on my behalf.
At no time did I ask for $$ upfront.
Should I have RED flagged a guy that tried to get me to drop my price on the prop and then stated. " Go ahead with the prop I'm going to get my dad to fit this bill anyway." ABSOLUTELY!
That being said, do I deserve to have been stiffed on payment?

I received a text back from Hannah claiming to be his daughter, stating that Paul had had a serious procedure and would not be in contact for a couple of days.
I responded with, I hope everything's ok please have him call me when he is up to it. Her reply back was that he had gone in for a "tuneup" and had a procedure. Also asked "tease" him for it when I next talked to him. still no response.

Advantage was requesting the boat back so they could get started on gelcoat repairs. The steering rams had just come in and I quicking mounted up and bleed the system.
I dropped the boat off, as I was headed out of town for my birthday.
I sent this information to Mr. Owens with copies of the bill asking for payment. No response.

I returned back at my shop on Tuesday, tried calling Mr. Owens. NO response!
Immediately called down to Advantage and discovered the boat had been released without payment. I will not repeat that conversation.
I then proceeded over to Adrenaline Trailers and talked to Joe. He informed me the boat was not there and the situation I was dealing with.
Yes, he said he had been in there in the past and taken care of his bills. As of Tuesday morning, Joe had stated to me "Mr. Owens owed $2000 against his current bill and was on the schedule to come back for the remainder of his work."
Now, did he see this thread and decide to take care of his bill?? Quite possibly, I hope so! This tread would not be in vain as at least another person got paid.
Joe called me later that week. Said, he reached out to Paul from the business phone and no answer. He called Paul later from his personal line and Paul picked up and they set the date for Paul to return to get trailer work completed. Interesting.

Now, I put a nice text into Paul stating that I knew he was alive and well, this wasn't cool and I would like to get payment by the end of this business day.
Also including my banking information for direct deposit.
This is where it gets interesting.
He did respond later that day with a text stating he was in fact alive and well. My boat not so much, "My attorney will be sending you a certified letter"
I asked for what? NO response!

From what I have gathered from this thread that he may have a water leak of some sort?
LET ME ASK YOU ALL THIS?
If you just picked up your boat after having $7400 worth of work and put it on the water and there was an issue of any kind, who would you first be calling??
Your repair shop! no question about it! I would want to know as a business owner!
I posed the question to Mr. Owens and NO response. I HAVE THE TEXTS.

So, I put another call into Mr. Owens and no answer. Mailbox full.
I then give him a call on my employee's phone, no answer.
Then 5 mins. later his phone rings and guess who? Mr. Owens is a bit surprised when I answer nicely asking for payment, only to be told he just got out of a meeting and I would have to call back in 15 mins.
Do you think I ever heard from Mr. Owens again? NO WAY!

Thank you, Wet hull, for trying to get the right thing accomplished.
Thank you, Joe, Adrenaline trailers.
Thank you, Dave, for this forum.
Thank you, to RDP Members, lots of good ones out there.
Thank you, to any and all of my customers for your support and kind words.

I will not be sharing any actual pictures or texts, as it looks like I will have to be proceeding legally with this.
I have covered everything in-depth here. This is all very accurate account of the situation.
You will most likely not see another post from me on this topic.

I take this business very seriously. It's rough, big $$, high responsibility. I'm entrusted with your valued possessions, your boat. even more, your family's well-being.
There are times that I have to make calls of the safety factor regarding repairs, as with fuel systems. Nothing can be left to chance and your safety is a top priority.
No matter how hard we try in this business, there's always going to be those 1 or 2 customers per year that you just don't see eye to eye. I think I'm caught up for the next few years!

Thank you,
Kris

This is the Kris I know.

I have been a Flat Top's customer for the 12 years I have owned by boat. I've dealt solely with Kris since he took full ownership in 2015.

Kris is the kind of guy that will save your ASS and your trip if he can, and he has always been 100% upfront and fair with all costs. If he's doing service and finds something unexpected, you get a phonecall / text advising you what was found, estimated cost and asking if you want to proceed. Kris works with the other shops in town and I trust leaving my stuff with him under all circumstances.

As others have posted, Flat Top's is a reputable solid business, and I am personally mad as hell that they have been screwed over by a serial thief.

Kris - I hope you get made whole, see you this season for a service.

JH

 

[dribble]

Fact. This douche is not going to pay. I don’t know about Arizona but in California per the civil code, you have a valid Mechanic’s Lien until you release possession of the vehicle, boat, trailer etc. This is likely the case in AZ as well. This was done when it was sent to the second shop. Meaning it would be illegal to find the boat and take it back. His best alternative is to go to small claims court and to do it now.

 

[dribble]

That was one of the signs in my shop and I made sure EVERBODY saw it. Guess what, in 25 years I got stiffed 1 time and it was my Fault!! A lawyer no less!!!

Got stiffed by a lawyer in the 80’s in our shop. Never collected and this slimeball got a new factory Honda Carb on us.

 

[Dan Lorenze]

Paul needs to step up and pay his bill to Flat Tops Marine. No excuses!

 

[Done-it-again]

Just wait now..... I see Flat Tops getting busier. You ready Kris?

If we get another lake sled Flat Tops would be my first choice...... Glad @YoPengo turned me on to them.....

 

[Travmon]

Are we back to hanging this ass hat ? Is the trial over ? Did we convict ?

 

[rrrr]

Another way to look at it is….

Flat Top did the right thing for HIS Customer, he forwarded the boat onto the next guy to make progress on the repairs needed to trailer. He set aside his business rules in order to BEST serve his customer ! Sounds like Flat Top & Kris is an Absolute Stand up guy & a good shop to get work complete.

He could of said NOPE boat won’t be released to the next shop until payment has been made, it can sit outside in the sun, wind and possibly rain as long as it takes.

I agree with this opinion. It illustrates that Kris is committed to running his business in a manner that best benefits his customers. His decision to release the boat to another shop for other repairs was an earnest effort to do what was required to get the boat back in the water quickly.

An effective answer to the thief would be transmitted if every performance boat business in LHC, Phoenix, and Southern California would band together and refuse to work on his boat, even if and when he pays for the repairs.. There probably aren't that many shops that are competent to perform service on blue engines.

It's safe to say many owners of those businesses have seen this thread. The shops all know each other, and reaching an agreement among them to blackball the shitbag shouldn't be difficult.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I agree with this opinion. It illustrates that Kris is committed to running his business in a manner that best benefits his customers. His decision to release the boat to another shop for other repairs was an earnest effort to do what was required to get the boat back in the water quickly.

An effective answer to the thief would be transmitted if every performance boat business in LHC, Phoenix, and Southern California would band together and refuse to work on his boat, even if and when he pays for the repairs.. There probably aren't that many shops that are competent to perform service on blue engines.

It's safe to say many owners of those businesses have seen this thread. The shops all know each other, and reaching an agreement among them to blackball the shitbag shouldn't be difficult.

Seems easier just to kill the guy. I've seen that prescriptive approach brought up so many times here I figure it has to work.

 

[RiverDave]

Seems easier just to kill the guy. I've seen that prescriptive approach brought up so many times here I figure it has to work.

??

 

[4Waters]

??

A poke at the normal RDP witch hunt

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

??

"The penalty for theft should be death." It's all over the site proclaimed by many members in almost all theft related threads.

Seems no one calls for death when you see a picture of the guy, or he is a member of the site.

 

[44Inside]

bump

 

[rivrrts429]

This thread went waaaay sideways...

 

[02HoWaRd26]

This thread went waaaay sideways...

Idk I’d still personally love to hear Paul’s side, not because i don’t believe Flattop fully, but to see what kind of excuse and reason why he’d need a lawyer. I call bullshit on that and believe it to be a bluff. I hope the end outcome is he makes right but well i do t see that happening, so hopefully he gets blackballed in Havasu not only from the shops but from the fellow boaters that see him in the channel acting all cool, or more the Havasu Jester! Hell that’s a good screen name for him.

 

[RiverDave]

Idk I’d still personally love to hear Paul’s side, not because i don’t believe Flattop fully, but to see what kind of excuse and reason why he’d need a lawyer. I call bullshit on that and believe it to be a bluff. I hope the end outcome is he makes right but well i do t see that happening, so hopefully he gets blackballed in Havasu not only from the shops but from the fellow boaters that see him in the channel acting all cool, or more the Havasu Jester! Hell that’s a good screen name for him.

I would bet dollars to donuts no lawyer..

The bill Would be cheaper than litigation. If you read flat tops post he mentioned where the guy was gonna have his dad pay the bill anyways..

 

[rrrr]

If you read flat tops post he mentioned where the guy was gonna have his dad pay the bill anyways..

His dad? Looking at a photo of him you wouldn't think he's just an eighth grader.

 

[MPHSystems]

A poke at the normal RDP witch hunt

If this thread was a scene from a movie…..

 

[Nanu/Nanu]

Nice advertising ploy guys. fabricate a story to get some new customers. I LIKE IT!!

Just messing around. This sucks you got a bad seed. I think you've handled it best you can aside from using traditional methods (but it's apparently not cool to use those methods anymore). If I goes to court sounds like you got your ducks in a row. I tip my hat to @wet hull and @Flat Tops Marine.

 

[RiverDave]

This isn’t ever going to court

 

[FROGMAN524]

I would absolutely take it to small claims because guys like this need to be held accountable. Whether or not that happens is yet to be determined but at least you’ll be a pain in his ass.

 

[BingerFang]

??

Typical LOF thread hijack with a useless comment, fishing for a reaction. Such a standup moderator he is.

 

[rush1]

i 2nd that.....been going there for 15 years and never had a "unexpected bill"!! communicates everything !! goes out of his way to not have a blown weekend and has even came to the boat on the water to fix and issue!! this guy is full of shit!

I agree Kris has fixed my boat and 4 friends boats did exactly what he said when he said it , and everything was exactly what he said. Never an issue and great work .

 

[Yldboyz]

This is going to be fun and memorable boating season.

 

[DiamondDave]

Is this the same Paul Owens that bought River Dave's old Hallet?

Reason I ask is IF so, before purchasing that boat he was all set up to buy mine. Talked back and forth a few weeks or longer about it. When he finally decided to buy it, I sent him a bill of sale for his bank or whatever and all the info he asked for. He claimed he was literally leaving the next day on a road trip to come buy my boat I even took time off work for it. He didn't show up and ghosted me. The next thing I know he's posting pics of the Hallet he just bought a day or two afterwards on FB. NOT a man of his word but a TOTAL S#&% BAG!!!

 

[Bigbore500r]

Is this the same Paul Owens that bought River Dave's old Hallet?

Reason I ask is IF so, before purchasing that boat he was all set up to buy mine. Talked back and forth a few weeks or longer about it. When he finally agreed to buy it, I sent him a bill of sale for his bank or whatever and all the info he asked for. He claimed he was literally leaving the next day on a road trip to come buy my boat I even took time off work for it. He didn't show up and ghosted me. The next thing I know he's posting pics of the Hallet he just bought a day or two afterwards on FB. NOT a man of his word but a TOTAL S#&% BAG!!!

Not the 270 right? I see that's for sale right now but its a different guy selling.

 

[ChiliPepperGarage]

"You'll hear from my Attorney" is the pussy adult equivalent of saying, "My dad can beat up your dad".

 

[DiamondDave]

Not the 270 right? I see that's for sale right now but its a different guy selling.

Sorry I'm not familiar with Hallet models but was River Dave's according to the FB posts he made a twin small bock app if I remember?

 

[hallett21]

"You'll hear from my Attorney" is the pussy adult equivalent of saying, "My dad can beat up your dad".

People who are serious usually let the attorney do the talking lol

 

[Bigbore500r]

Sorry I'm not familiar with Hallet models but was River Dave's according to the FB posts he made a twin small bock app if I remember?

I see RD's old Hallet listed now on FB, unmistakable with the twin Merc scorpion SBC's - but it isn't Paul Owen selling it. Some other guy.
Did Paul buy it before the current owner got it?

 

[DiamondDave]

I see RD's old Hallet listed now on FB, unmistakable with the twin Merc scorpion SBC's - but it isn't Paul Owen selling it. Some other guy.
Did Paul buy it before the current owner got it?

Yes a guy named Paul Owens bought it 100%. Maybe there is more than one shady Paul Owens buying, selling and screwing people around in your area I'm not sure, but I'd bet it's the same moron.

 

[wallnutz]

Sorry I'm not familiar with Hallet models but was River Dave's according to the FB posts he made a twin small bock app if I remember?

I thought the Outlaw boat transport guy bought Dave's Hallet, and His name isn't Paul.

 

[hallett21]

I thought the Outlaw boat transport guy bought Dave's Hallet, and His name isn't Paul.

Different Hallett. That was a 340. Guy above you is referencing the 270 with scorpion motors

 

[Multi Mech]

Wow, I really cant believe this type of crap still goes on out there in 2022. Just pay the f**king bill, Paul!! You knew you were bringing the boat in to have inspections and repair work done and now it appears it was a bit more than you originally anticipated, daaaaaaaah! It happens all the time, especially in the boat world, just call the guy and discuss it. If you enjoy your lake time as much as we do then you have to take care of your shit and pay for work that gets done, period! We work hard and we play hard shit breaks, we fix it and move on. its really just that simple. Until that guy who comes around who thinks he's going to screw someone over or short change a shop in the in the final hour. That is why the verbiage of Dueschbag is now in the threads!!

Man, I have known Kris for years now and I will tell you one thing he is not, is a liar. He is definitely a man of his word that I can testify to. I have had thousands of dollars spent at Flat Top Marine on a couple twin 700's that Kris and Steve both rebuilt for me a couple years back. I cringed at the bill, cried like a baby and complained a little but knew everything he was saying to do needed to be done and for that I am grateful. Things didn't go 100% perfecto, a few unknown's happened that cost me a few bucks more but what we did do, that this guy is not doing.............WE COMMUNICATED, and that is something I know Kris 100% does when it comes to work like this. Kris was even kind enough to workout an exchange for services that I could provide him with, to help me with the cost of the bill. As anyone who has rebuilt a couple of motors it isn't a simple 123 here's your new motor back process. Communicating is what this f**king world is lacking these days and it needs to return big time. Turn off your Insta this and Facebook that shit and pick up the phone.

We all work hard to make a living some more than others and Kris is a honest, hard working cat with integrity with a "what ever it takes attitude" to get your ass back on the water. I know this as fact as I have interrupted a few of his weekends just so my family and I could enjoy our weekend on the water. So Paul, the 40-50 yr old tongue photo guy who thinks he's pulling one over on an honest shop, YOUR NOT!! I respectfully ask you to just pay your f**king bill like a man and be the cool guy that you think you are. To many people have read this thread and know exactly what you and your boat look like. I would hate to see anything happen to you or your boat over something this dueschbag of a move, like not paying for services rendered. It's a crazy crazy world out there and $7-8,000 is a lot of money. Especially when labor and materials are at their finest right now. Pay your bills and let's move on to bigger and better things.

 

[wallnutz]

Different Hallett. That was a 340. Guy above you is referencing the 270 with scorpion motors

Oh ya, ok I remember now.

 

[RogerThat99]

Different Hallett. That was a 340. Guy above you is referencing the 270 with scorpion motors

That 270 was my own personal "spare bedroom" at RD's. Loved that boat.

 

[PRORACER7474]

Go to the police station and file a report and ask for charges, If you can prove/ or they can that it was done intentionally it is a crime. look up Defrauding a innkeeper law "The use of fraud to obtain goods or services without paying for it" How do I know I have used it a few times to recover money owed me for products people bought with fake checks, fake cards or wrong personal info.

 

[outboard_256]

This isn’t ever going to court

This would be a slam dunk in small claims court. Problem is usually the max is low like 2-5k so he may not get all his money back.

 

[Roosky01]

So did this dude buy RD's boat or not?

 

[LGETT]

??

WTF......

Dude needs to consider a filter between brain and keyboard

 

[RiverDave]

Is this the same Paul Owens that bought River Dave's old Hallet?

Reason I ask is IF so, before purchasing that boat he was all set up to buy mine. Talked back and forth a few weeks or longer about it. When he finally decided to buy it, I sent him a bill of sale for his bank or whatever and all the info he asked for. He claimed he was literally leaving the next day on a road trip to come buy my boat I even took time off work for it. He didn't show up and ghosted me. The next thing I know he's posting pics of the Hallet he just bought a day or two afterwards on FB. NOT a man of his word but a TOTAL S#&% BAG!!!

It’s the same guy.

This is why I used a broker to sell the boat. So I don’t have to deal with people

 

[RiverDave]

So did this dude buy RD's boat or not?

Yes and since resold it. He told me he had bought and sold 16 boats last year

 

[Runs2rch]

Not the 270 right? I see that's for sale right now but its a different guy selling.

Dave sold it to someone else before current owner Nic. @MariosMetalworks on here ran into the guy on Pleasant I think. Said he was a super douche. Sounds like that lines up here.

 

[Runs2rch]

It’s the same guy.

This is why I used a broker to sell the boat. So I don’t have to deal with people

Shitty people anyways. Good people do still exist.

 

[Roosky01]

It’s the same guy.

This is why I used a broker to sell the boat. So I don’t have to deal with people

 

[DLC]

This would be a slam dunk in small claims court. Problem is usually the max is low like 2-5k so he may not get all his money back.

In Ca it’s up to $10,000

Az is only $3500, which is really low that should be updated !

 

[rrrr]

In Ca it’s up to $10,000

Az is only $3500, which is really low that should be updated !

In 2021 the Texas small claims court limit was raised to $20,000. In 2020 I sued a former tenant for damages to a rental home. The limit then was $10,000.

I won a judgement of $9,880. The judge said "I see you're asking for damages up to the $10,000 limit. Did you manufacture these numbers?"

I had receipts that totaled almost $20,000, and cherry picked through them to get close to $10K. Not that I'll ever see the money. At least I put something on his credit that'll be there a long time.

 

[DiamondDave]

Yes and since resold it. He told me he had bought and sold 16 boats last year

What he should have said was "I bought one boat but dicked around 15 sellers because I'm a lying d-bag" What a lying tool...