My (new) RZR build

[LargeOrangeFont]

LargeOrangeMazda? might be my eyes.... nice build on your rzr..

Correct!

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Thanks again @dspracing for the custom glass in record time. Windsheild came out better than i was hoping. You almost can’t tell it was 2 pieces last week!

I like a little airflow behind the windshield so I set this up with about a 1” gap to the cowl/hood. This will be good for the winter, when it warms back up I may cut a little more of that flap away for more airflow. We will see how it goes. I figured this would be a good place to start.

 

[throttle]

I like it! If you are looking for a seal on the bottom for intermittent use, is there some kind of weather-stripping or flap that could be put in place that could be simply be removed when unwanted? Its prolly not even that big of a deal.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I like it! If you are looking for a seal on the bottom for intermittent use, is there some kind of weather-stripping or flap that could be put in place that could be simply be removed when unwanted? Its prolly not even that big of a deal.

Thanks! It came out so nice I wish I put more effort into smoothing out the welded area. I can still go back and do that later.

I actually like it with no seal at all and a gap as big as you can stand in the cold months. I pulled the seal off my
Old car and never rant it, and also raised the windshield. It helps reduce some of the dust suckback into the cabin area.You get a little cold air in the dead of winter but we find it manageable.

After the ride we did last weekend we remembered how much no windsheild life sucks. I probably should have just cut more off the bottom and told my wife to remember how bad it was with nothing at all.

 

[throttle]

I will not ever know what any of that means anymore with enclosed cab. I did ask wifey to pop the windshield up last week so I could catch her having good time.

 

[DLC]

I will not ever know what any of that means anymore with enclosed cab. I did ask wifey to pop the windshield up last week so I could catch her having good time.

View attachment 1173543

love that pic!

where is that?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I will not ever know what any of that means anymore with enclosed cab. I did ask wifey to pop the windshield up last week so I could catch her having good time.

View attachment 1173543

Yea yea yea don’t remind me .

That car is killer.

 

[throttle]

love that pic!

where is that?

its havasu

 

[DWC]

Saw this Can Am setup at the show today. Definitely tempting considering the temps and wind today.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Saw this Can Am setup at the show today. Definitely tempting considering the temps and wind today.


View attachment 1173827

The company that makes those cab enclosures is 5 mins from my house.

I can’t tell.. does that one have the AC unit on top? They made at least one with a Dometic 1200W AC under the roof rack.

 

[Boatymcboatface]

Went a little different route with the storage box so the kids could get jackets or snacks a little easier. Thanks for the idea!

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Went a little different route with the storage box so the kids could get jackets or snacks a little easier. Thanks for the idea! View attachment 1173958 View attachment 1173959 View attachment 1173960 View attachment 1173961

I like that! How did you secure them? Just straps through the screw in hooks and around those handles?

Nice work!

I have a couple dry bags for kayaking that we use to stow food and clothes.

Generally that gets smashed between the spare tire and the cooler and we keep snacks, and a couple sweaters or whatever in there and I just use the bunjee cords so it does not fly out..

I need to modify my spare tire holder to work with this cage, so I don’t have that on yet.

It worked like that yesterday in Sand Hollow without the spare tire and didn’t fly away!

 

[Boatymcboatface]

Went a little different route with the storage box so the kids could get jackets or snacks a little easier. Thanks for the idea! View attachment 1173958 View attachment 1173959 View attachment 1173960 View attachment 1173961

I like that! How did you secure them? Just straps through the screw in hooks and around those handles? YES

Nice work!

I have a couple dry bags for kayaking that we use to stow food and clothes.
View attachment 1174032

Generally that gets smashed between the spare tire and the cooler and we keep snacks, and a couple sweaters or whatever in there and I just use the bunjee cords so it does not fly out..

I need to modify my spare tire holder to work with this cage, so I don’t have that on yet.

It worked like that yesterday in Sand Hollow without the spare tire and didn’t fly away!

I was planning on copying what you did so I had everything the same except I couldn’t find the Rubbermaid box at home depot so I grabbed this Plano one because of the ability to take the lid off luckily it fits! I do have the set of Costco $99 Dewalt tools under it to raise it up a bit so you can open it if not it sits to low. Going to be in big river/Parker/havasu the next few days to give it a try and see what I want to change.

 

[DWC]

The company that makes those cab enclosures is 5 mins from my house.

I can’t tell.. does that one have the AC unit on top? They made at least one with a Dometic 1200W AC under the roof rack.

I didn’t see an AC unit. The set-up was a little boxy but kinda cool. The door enclosures came off pretty easily. Wouldn’t take much to convince me to do that for the winter

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I didn’t see an AC unit. The set-up was a little boxy but kinda cool. The door enclosures came off pretty easily. Wouldn’t take much to convince me to do that for the winter

It’s pretty sweet and those guys seem to do nice work.

They were the ones backed up until mid Jan for a windsheild!

 

[Badchoices03]

Looks good man...what is the trick with windsheilds, use glass only and not plexi? Every car I have ever rode in that has a windshield glass or plexi always seems to have a layer of dust on the window that just makes it even harder to see especially at night with any light glare...

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Looks good man...what is the trick with windsheilds, use glass only and not plexi? Every car I have ever rode in that has a windshield glass or plexi always seems to have a layer of dust on the window that just makes it even harder to see especially at night with any light glare...

Glass only but keep it clean. The cleaner it is the less stuff sticks to it. It will get a little dust over time. Dust it off at stops.

If everyone in your group has low mounted front amber dust lights, rear chase lights, and radios, you don’t need to follow as close and hopefully that means a little less dust. But sometimes it just sucks.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Ripped around Sand Hollow on Sat with some friends.Yesterday I pulled the seats and center cover back apart one final time to put the 2” harnesses in the back for the kids, and put in the 2 rear headset connections for them. I mounted the jacks just behind the rear cupholders.

 

[DLC]

Looks good man...what is the trick with windsheilds, use glass only and not plexi? Every car I have ever rode in that has a windshield glass or plexi always seems to have a layer of dust on the window that just makes it even harder to see especially at night with any light glare...

Use this multi coats inside and outside of the glass windshield when you stop use a microfiber to dust it off

the dust doesn’t stick to the glass with this

add a coat or 2 before each ride

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Use this multi coats inside and outside of the glass windshield when you stop use a microfiber to dust it off

the dust doesn’t stuck to the glass with this

add a coat or 2 before each ride

View attachment 1174159

Being in your car for awhile, that stuff works well too.

I use the Spray Away aerosol glass cleaner.

 

[Socalx09]

Yea. I’m going to delete the sliders though. After that I don’t think the seats will move at all. The base has no slop at all now, it’s all in the slider.

We got the prp seats installed last night with the 5 pts harnesses. The cam lock harnesses are a nice upgrade. The seats still wiggle a lot. I’m guessing the factory seat base just isn’t going to cut it. We need to keep the slider aspect though. You mentioned you are going to delete your slider to reduce the play in the seats. Is it worth buying the seat bases if we aren’t going to remove the slider to reduce the play in the seats? Just checking if there’s a lot less play in the better seat bases.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

We got the prp seats installed last night with the 5 pts harnesses. The cam lock harnesses are a nice upgrade. The seats still wiggle a lot. I’m guessing the factory seat base just isn’t going to cut it. We need to keep the slider aspect though. You mentioned you are going to delete your slider to reduce the play in the seats. Is it worth buying the seat bases if we aren’t going to remove the slider to reduce the play in the seats? Just checking if there’s a lot less play in the better seat bases.

Awesome. The cam lock belts are the best. So easy. If I was buying belts I would go that way 100%.

My take on all the seat base stuff -

I have had 2 Bases - Longhorn Fab in my old car, and L&W Fab now. I don't know if the Longhorn ones will work for you with aftermarket seats.. and they don't use sliders. So they are out for you.

So the stock seat bases had a lot of slop in the mount to the frame, but the slider actually had very little slop. So the seat flopped around. I put the L&W Fab seat bases in and they are very tight with no movement. Great. Then I put the seat with the slider on them and it flopped around just like stock.. ugh. There was now a bunch of slop in the slider where there was none before. The metal seat base was not quite as thick as the plastic seat base was. There are little spacers in there you could shave down and tighten it up. More fiddly work.

I elected not to mess with it and just took the slider out. Stock seats are now locked down and don't move. The seat still does slide if needed, you just have to pop it out and loosen 4 bolts if you needed to move it front to back. Not ideal , but my wife and I like the same driving position.

For the PRP seats I would not get these L&W bases as they did not work quite right with PRP seats.

@Bpracing1127 just gave me these L&W bases for that reason. He now has PRP seats with bases that worked better with those aftermarket seats. Let him comment here, I don't recall if he has sliders or not still.

 

[Bpracing1127]

Awesome. The cam lock belts are the best. So easy. If I was buying belts I would go that way 100%.

My take on all the seat base stuff -

I have had 2 Bases - Longhorn Fab in my old car, and L&W Fab now. I don't know if the Longhorn ones will work for you with aftermarket seats.. and they don't use sliders. So they are out for you.

So the stock seat bases had a lot of slop in the mount to the frame, but the slider actually had very little slop. So the seat flopped around. I put the L&W Fab seat bases in and they are very tight with no movement. Great. Then I put the seat with the slider on them and it flopped around just like stock.. ugh. There was now a bunch of slop in the slider where there was none before. The metal seat base was not quite as thick as the plastic seat base was. There are little spacers in there you could shave down and tighten it up. More fiddly work.

I elected not to mess with it and just took the slider out. Stock seats are now locked down and don't move. The seat still does slide if needed, you just have to pop it out and loosen 4 bolts if you needed to move it front to back. Not ideal , but my wife and I like the same driving position.

For the PRP seats I would not get these L&W bases as they did not work quite right with PRP seats.

@Bpracing1127 just gave me these L&W bases for that reason. He now has PRP seats with bases that worked better with those aftermarket seats. Let him comment here, I don't recall if he has sliders or not still.

I put PRP bases with my prp seats. The lowering/recount bases were way to reclined for me. The new seats are more reclined then stock hence not needed recline/lowering bases. The sliders would have worked on my seats too but I took them out as they don’t slide easily and I never move it anyways.

 

[Havazoo]

Good job, you're ready to roll

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Good job, you're ready to roll

Thank you. Long pole in the tent now is the shock valving.. trying to get that lined up and knocked out before Desert Bash Poker Run!

 

[Mikes56]

You gonna be able to get to your fuel pump? .

Sorry bud, had to jump on the bandwagon.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

You gonna be able to get to your fuel pump? .

Sorry bud, had to jump on the bandwagon.

No, there is a giant cover over it .

I think they finally fixed those lol.

 

[ArizonaKevin]

I have a very similar tool roll (Bucket Boss) and love it. The only thing I struggle with is organization of my sockets in one of the pouches. Any bright ideas? Feels like I inevitably have to pull every single socket out before I find the one I'm looking for.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I have a very similar tool roll (Bucket Boss) and love it. The only thing I struggle with is organization of my sockets in one of the pouches. Any bright ideas? Feels like I inevitably have to pull every single socket out before I find the one I'm looking for.

Agreed.

I put the shallow sockets on a cheap socket rail - one metric, one standard.

The deep sockets are just floating around in there loose. I just have metric deep sockets though.

Not perfect, but better than nothing.

This style so I could make them as compact as possible, and chopped off the excess rail.

 

[Bpracing1127]

I fit all my sockets on a HD socket rail too

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Another 90 miles this weekend with some friends.

So much for the budget… bought everything else I wanted on Black Friday sales.

New MPI wheel came Saturday.

Ordered a few more parts that are on their way. Will update when I get them installed, but the car is basically complete now once I get the parts installed.

 

[DLC]

way better to spend the cash now and get years of use out if it ….

rather than dump cash in it to sell it….

car looks great ! Really digging that steering wheel….

Another 90 miles this weekend with some friends.
View attachment 1175871

So much for the budget… bought everything else I wanted on Black Friday sales.

New MPI wheel came Saturday.
View attachment 1175872

Ordered a few more parts that are on their way. Will update when I get them installed, but the car is basically complete now once I get the parts installed.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I grabbed some aftermarket front lower arms from Houser Racing on a Black Friday sale. These are much stronger than the factory arms as you can see, and high clearance. Not too much more weight either.

Talk about a pleasure to install.. these assembled smoothly and fit perfectly. They have sealed needle bearings in the pivots, and are greaseable.

 

[Badchoices03]

I'm surprised your OCD is letting you run with black lowers and blue uppers...lol

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I'm surprised your OCD is letting you run with black lowers and blue uppers...lol

I figure it now matches the back with blue trailing arms and black radius rods

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Well good news, I got in the queue to get my shocks revalved next week by DC Shock Services in Havasu. Justin and Kurt over there has been very helpful as a sounding board, and this will be my first time using them. But many friends have had work done with them and been happy with their services.

The car has already been resprung with Shock Therapy springs. The springs ST gave me are 50 lbs stiffer all around on the main springs, and 50 lbs softer on the top springs than my old car.

The stock shock valving is too stiff for sure. It has little compliance over small bumps. The car (not the wheel) falls into ruts, and the car bounces up on bumps. The suspension is not absorbing or compliant with the terrain at slow to medium speeds. It is affecting the ride, cornering and drive.

When I push the car hard it works well, but this is at full soft on the clickers, so I have no options for adjustment. It seemed baffling to me that the stock valving would be that much different than a XP1000. An XP1000 is actually pretty good with springs only. DC confirmed that the Turbo XPs are valved stiffer from the factory than the XP1000s.

I have my bigger 2.5” front shocks to replace the 2.0” units up front. The consensus is that if you push the car for long periods these are a worthwhile upgrade. We have experienced that in our group and have cooked the stock 2.0” shocks more once. So the stock rears and the new fronts will be given to DC for a performance rebuild and revalve.

So that brings us into new stuff I want to try. SDI makes a dual adjuster conversion for all Walker 2.5” shocks. This turns the single compression knob into a high and low speed compression adjustment. I always thought my old car needed this, I just never did it. If I adjusted the shocks to run on washboards, it was too soft over big bumps at speed and vise versa. This will give a wider range of compromise to handle both conditions better.

So the shocks will be done the day before the Havasu Desert Bash Poker Run. So that will be the first ride with the bigger front shocks, the valving changes and the dual adjusters. After 70 miles of all kinds of terrain, I should have them mostly figured out. .

 

[dirtslinger2]

Well good news, I got in the queue to get my shocks revalved next week by DC Shock Services in Havasu. Justin and Kurt over there has been very helpful as a sounding board, and this will be my first time using them. But many friends have had work done with them and been happy with their services.

The car has already been resprung with Shock Therapy springs. The springs ST gave me are 50 lbs stiffer all around on the main springs, and 50 lbs softer on the top springs than my old car.

The stock shock valving is too stiff for sure. It has little compliance over small bumps. The car (not the wheel) falls into ruts, and the car bounces up on bumps. The suspension is not absorbing or compliant with the terrain at slow to medium speeds. It is affecting the ride, cornering and drive.

When I push the car hard it works well, but this is at full soft on the clickers, so I have no options for adjustment. It seemed baffling to me that the stock valving would be that much different than a XP1000. An XP1000 is actually pretty good with springs only. DC confirmed that the Turbo XPs are valved stiffer from the factory than the XP1000s.

I have my bigger 2.5” front shocks to replace the 2.0” units up front. The consensus is that is you push the car, these are a worthwhile upgrade. So the stock rears and the new fronts will be given to DC for a performance rebuild and revalve.

So that brings us into new stuff I want to try. SDI makes a dual adjuster conversion for all Walker 2.5” shocks. This turns the single compression knob into a high and low speed compression adjustment. I always thought my old car needed this, I just never did it. If I adjusted the shocks to run on washboards, it was too soft over big bumps at speed and vise versa. This will give a wider range of compromise to handle both conditions better.

So the shocks will be done the day before the Havasu Desert Bash Poker Run. So that will be the first ride with the bigger front shocks, the valving changes and the dual adjusters. After 70 miles of all kinds of terrain, I should have them mostly figured out. .

View attachment 1176785

Kurt is great, he's been doing my Class 11 shocks for a long time.

 

[K-DOG]

Found some brand new big bore 2.5” front shocks on n EBay for half price! I can’t believe it, these never come up for sale.

These 2.5” shocks are the shocks Walker Evan’s originally speced out for this platform, and Polaris bean counters elected to go 2” front shocks.

I am going to try a little different setup on this car than my old one. I will be having the valving reworked but I am converting the stock shocks to double adjustable units (high and low speed compression) from the factory stock single adjustment.



View attachment 1170603
Here is the difference in size from the OE front shocks to the 2.5” units.. this is from my old car.

View attachment 1170604

Those shocks look nice. I have a 1000 xp4 with a +3 long travel kit on it. It has the walker evans shocks with eibach coils and does good but I’m always wondering how much better it would be with upgraded shocks. I know they are expensive, not sure I can justify it.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Those shocks look nice. I have a 1000 xp4 with a +3 long travel kit on it. It has the walker evans shocks with eibach coils and does good but I’m always wondering how much better it would be with upgraded shocks. I know they are expensive, not sure I can justify it.

I will update how these do. The dual adjusters seem like a good way to up-level the shocks a bit without a huge cost. It is never gonna be a internal bypass shock, but I don’t know that I need that for this car.

These dual adjusters will also fit the Walker Velocity shocks on the Turbo S. Those were dumbed down with single adjusters. If you buy velocity shocks from Walker, they come with these 2 way adjusters.

 

[CLdrinker]

Looking good. Almost like it’s up to Speed.

 

[PlanB]

Nice work. Looks great!

 

[BIGRED9158]

Looking good. Almost like it’s up to Speed.

I see what you did

 

[Socalx09]

How are you liking the rt320s?

Thinking of tensors 33’ DSRs as well. Friends run tensors 35s with no problems, but not sure we want to do that. Heard good things about the rt320s.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

How are you liking the rt320s?

Thinking of tensors 33’ DSRs as well. Friends run tensors 35s with no problems, but not sure we want to do that. Heard good things about the rt320s.

So far I am liking them. They seems to last well, and are fairly light. They did well in loose dirt and sand and also did well crawling.

I know they last longer than the Tensors from the experiences in our group.

My cars slides a bit more on hard pack than I would like, but I’m not ready to blame the tires yet, I think it is more the shocks causing that, because friends that also have been running them don’t seem to have that issue.

If you can run the 33x9.5 I think that is the perfect tire for a RZR. I will be putting those on when these 32s wear out.

 

[t&y]

Serious Question, no bullshit. You have a Speed car on order and are obviously expecting it to arrive. I don't doubt it will arrive eventually. But for this one you are dumping a ton of money and time into it, so what are your plans for this car when your Speed car shows up? Is it that bad out of the box that it needs a bunch of upgrades to ride nice, or is it more you just need to tinker with shit like most of us?

 

[Socalx09]

So far I am liking them. They seems to last well, and are fairly light. They did well in loose dirt and sand and also did well crawling.

I know they last longer than the Tensors from the experiences in our group.

My cars slides a bit more on hard pack than I would like, but I’m not ready to blame the tires yet, I think it is more the shocks causing that, because friends that also have been running them don’t seem to have that issue.

If you can run the 33x9.5 I think that is the perfect tire for a RZR. I will be putting those on when these 32s wear out.

We still have the stock wheels/tires -Coyotes on the RZR. We really want beadlocks, but until we are doing a longer ride in the desert, we are going to run it as it is since the previous owner only used the car three times before us with a spare. We have dumped so much money in this car in the last three months. But, I still look for deals on used tires or beadlocks constantly. Good to know the rt320s are good tires. I’ll search for those as well. We have the bfg mud terrain on the yxz and it’s just too heavy and I think we should have got the all terrain version.

On a previous note- the seat bases didn’t move as much as I thought while we were in Glamis. It seems sketchy that they move so much when I shake them with my hands, but I didn’t notice it on the ride as much. Not sure if that’s the prp seats helping or the fact we were in sand and not hard pack.

I was bummed that both s3 and cognito didn’t offer any sales yet for the double shear radius cage.

Really appreciate this build thread and your input!

 

[Cole Trickle]

Serious Question, no bullshit. You have a Speed car on order and are obviously expecting it to arrive. I don't doubt it will arrive eventually. But for this one you are dumping a ton of money and time into it, so what are your plans for this car when your Speed car shows up? Is it that bad out of the box that it needs a bunch of upgrades to ride nice, or is it more you just need to tinker with shit like most of us?

Pretty sure LOF bought the RZR for home usage....He can drive the car on the street and he has 100's of trail miles right out the garage and all his neighbors have cars.

I also think he picked up the old rzr for deal and sold it for a decent chunk and then smoked a deal on the new Turbo car. LOF shops deals and does his own work so i think you would be surprised how deep he is into the new car compared to people that pay retail and can't turn a wrench

I also think he likes to tinker with shit

Last time I talked to him the Speed Car would be his Havasu car. I actually thinks he has a couple on order and will sell 1.

 

[Boatymcboatface]

I’m

We still have the stock wheels/tires -Coyotes on the RZR. We really want beadlocks, but until we are doing a longer ride in the desert, we are going to run it as it is since the previous owner only used the car three times before us with a spare. We have dumped so much money in this car in the last three months. But, I still look for deals on used tires or beadlocks constantly. Good to know the rt320s are good tires. I’ll search for those as well. We have the bfg mud terrain on the yxz and it’s just too heavy and I think we should have got the all terrain version.

On a previous note- the seat bases didn’t move as much as I thought while we were in Glamis. It seems sketchy that they move so much when I shake them with my hands, but I didn’t notice it on the ride as much. Not sure if that’s the prp seats helping or the fact we were in sand and not hard pack.

I was bummed that both s3 and cognito didn’t offer any sales yet for the double shear radius cage.

Really appreciate this build thread and your input!

Cognito RZR Sway Bar links, Rod Cage, Sway Bar Mount - atvs, utvs,...

These parts were used for 2 trips, Cognito rear sway bar links, rear rod cage and rear sway bar mounts. These came off my 2021 Polaris Rzr Turbo S4, they will fit other models, please check website....

inlandempire.craigslist.org

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Serious Question, no bullshit. You have a Speed car on order and are obviously expecting it to arrive. I don't doubt it will arrive eventually. But for this one you are dumping a ton of money and time into it, so what are your plans for this car when your Speed car shows up? Is it that bad out of the box that it needs a bunch of upgrades to ride nice, or is it more you just need to tinker with shit like most of us?

Good questions. @Cole Trickle is on point.

So I now live in 2 states that allow these on the streets. Half the people on my block have machines, and we go out on rides. When we go to Havasu we also meet up with friends and go on rides. I also use it as a car there because I don’t keep a vehicle at my house. So unless we are dragging a UTV back and forth we are missing times with friends and neighbors.

I don’t want to tow a UTV across the desert every trip we make to Havasu. Some quick math revealed that a used UTV will lose about the same amount in depreciation that I’d spend in extra gas towing a UTV back and forth, so we made the decision to just have 2.

The Speed car is going to be a less popular car, but there will be parts in Havasu. There probably won’t be parts in Southern UT for a bit. You can get parts and pieces for these RZRs everywhere, and I don’t feel like I need that level of car here in UT anyway.

I have 2 on order and will be selling the first one. I will keep the 2nd Speed car for Havasu.

Some of the stuff I’m doing is just tinkering and trying new stuff. These cars in particular need springs and really benefit from shock work. When you spend 20 or 30k on one of these. And can spend a couple more grand to transform it from a consumer grade UTV into something truly impressive that performs well, drives well and you can be comfortable in all day, why not?

I consider radios, GPS, and the front and rear facing lights a necessity as well. I got all the electronics pretty cheap scouring for deals, and bought everything else on sale. I’m done at this point. I bought the last couple items on Black Friday sales. It is just maintenance items from here on out.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Yesterday I put on a set of Shock Therapy tie rods I got on their Black Friday sale. These guys make nice parts and pieces.

Some of these machines have quite a bit of toe change through suspension travel. Eliminating the bump steer makes the car a lot more consistent, stable, and less fatiguing to drive.

Their outer tie rod pins are adjustable to eliminate bump steer. I made up a little setup to measure the bump steer with my laser level attached to the brake caliper. The laser level shined a light onto my cabinet where I stood up some cardboard. I then just cycled the suspension and made marks on the cardboard at full compression, full droop and ride height. I then played with the outer tie rod shim stack that came with the kit and did that several times until I got the tightest measurement, and there is almost no toe change now.