Maybe someone... anyone can explain this to me about Schiada's

[RiverDave]

From what I understand the 20, 21 & 22 are basically all the same bottom.

Now I've seen a 20 side by side with a 21 in the water. The 21 is a bigger boat, but it's not dwarfing it by any means.. And again I've seen the 22 next to a 21.. Definately taller, but again it's not that huge of a difference.

I would expect the weight between a 21 and a 20 to be within a couple hundred pds.. And again from a 21 to a 22 to be within 300 lbs if everything is equal (in terms of layup interior etc..)

Why does a 21 require so much more power then a 20, and again a 22 gobs more power then the 21 to get the same speeds?

I'm having a very hard time understanding this. A couple 2 - 300 lbs in a boat shouldn't make that much of a difference in my mind?
RD

 

[Yellowboat]

I'd say it has to do with the wet surface. more surface in the water= more drag.

 

[Flat Broke]

That's actually a pretty good question Dave. I'm going to go with wetted surface area/drag for the reason for the difference in performance between the 3. Even if the running surface of the hulls are identical (I'm not saying they are), there is likely more weight gain from each size increase than you think. Either way, if the running surfaces are similar, we can assume that the lift potential for the 22 is similar to the 20. That means that every added pound over the weight of the 20 not only weighs more, but also negates some of the lift in the hull. This in tern creates more drag, which we all know is the ultimate killer of speed. As the drag increases, that coefficient is multiplied accross the weight difference between the hulls amplifying the scenario.

That's just my guess though and I'm sure Stan and other Schiadaphiles can give more insight into the matter.

 

[djunkie]

Well I know one thing, my friends 21 weighs a whole hell of a lot more than his 22. But the 22 feels more solid and rides better in the rough water. :hmm
________
Mflb Vaporizer

 

[RiverDave]

I'd say it has to do with the wet surface. more surface in the water= more drag.

I asked Lee once how they arrived at the 22.. They took a 21, and added some height to the transom (8 degree angle if memory serves) which adds a few inches of length.. then added some height to the bow (The bow "flares" at the top so this added a little bit of length) and whamo you have 22'. The deck obviously is different but I believe the bottoms of the boat (what actually see's water while running) is identical.

In terms of wetted surface I'd say they are about the same on plane if I had to guess.

My 21 Side Shot / Gary H's 22 Side shot for comparison

Angle shot.. the area where they added length to the bow is just above the bow wench, and on the transom from what I understand. This really shouldn't affect the speed of the boat in my mind? (Unless there is some aerodynamic drags added with the taller deck / gunnels etc?)

 

[Yellowboat]

more wieght= more wet surface. and/or more power to lift the boat out of the water.

 

[RiverDave]

Does anybody have any real world #'s as to what it would take to make a

20 - 100 mph
21 - 100 mph
22 - 100 mph..

RD

 

[hawkes24]

Does anybody have any real world #'s as to what it would take to make a

20 - 100 mph
21 - 100 mph
22 - 100 mph..

RD

throw a bitchin ob on my 20 only about 30 thousand more

 

[djunkie]

Does anybody have any real world #'s as to what it would take to make a

20 - 100 mph
21 - 100 mph
22 - 100 mph..

RD

20-800hp

21-1100+hp

22-Top fuel motor.

Just my guess's. :skull
________
VAAAPP

 

[Tube Sock]

An open bow '24 will be right at 98 with an 850.

 

[RiverDave]

An open bow '24 will be right at 98 with an 850.

V-drive or I/O?

RD

 

[BamBam]

Actually Dave the 22' came first. About 1972 Leonard Schiada came up with the hull design. The "step" in the deck was a carry over from the early 21' (not the same bottom). The 22' sold first in 1973 (I believe) and was a success offshore (Catalina etc.). Then there was Marathon and Circle ski races the length limit was 21' (the 22' is actually 21'7") so Leonard in his infinate wisdom took a 22' boat and cut it down until it measured exactly 21'. So Yes the bottoms of the 21' and 22' started out exactly the same. He built a mold for the new bottom and designed a top. The 20' took way more work to create than just cutting down a 21'. There are more differences between the 20' and 21' than the 21' and 22'. I agree with the prior posts that more boat is wet with each pound added, however with the right set-up you can make a 22' FLY. Just my two cents.

Mike

 

[78 Continental]

V-drive or I/O?

RD

Has to be and I/O. The 24' are heavy and most are I/O's. My brother's 24' schiada does 73mph with and HP500. Cant trim a V-drive like you can an I/O.

 

[Tube Sock]

V-drive or I/O?

RD

I/O.

Although there are some V-drives out there, but I do not know how they run.

 

[MySchi]

The difference between the 21 RC and the 22 is pretty dramatic. 300 lbs might be a bit conservative on the weight difference. The reason it takes so much horsepower to make these hulls run is because they usually run wet and their bottoms are just not that fast. These boats weren't designed with the intent of pulling a skier 100 mph through a ski race. They were designed to be daycruisers.

As you will notice they don't run Schiadas in GN races (except for Justified) because they just don't run like a Raysoncraft or a Rush. They work great for ski racing because they run wet, work well in rougher water and lay a great carpet for the skier, but the fact is they are not a fast hull and it takes 1200 hp to get them to run over 100 mph. Don't get me wrong here, Schiadas are fantastic boats and I wouldn't want to own anything else, but the facts are the facts.

 

[BamBam]

The difference between the 21 RC and the 22 is pretty dramatic.

Difference in weight only. A 21 will fit in the bottom mold for the 22. The bottoms are the same!

 

[LV R SCHIADA'S]

The story goes like this regarding the 20 -21 -22 -24 boats, all having a v-drive set up, and say with an 800 hp blower motor;

The 20' would be like an "e-ticket" ride, but slot car quick on turns, good handling in light chop.

The 21' would be like an IMSA GTP Porsche 962, handles big hp well, handles chop just fine, turns just fine, handling dream.

The 22' would be like a Cadillac Eldorado of past, big, strong, likes big hp for moderate cruzin, handles bigger chop nicely.

The 24' would be like a mini motorhome on roids, throw all the hp you want to it, tear through chop and keep on truckin, handling is still nice and crisp.

Lee & Stan will tell you that there aren't many v-drive 24's out there, they seem to be very stealthy for some reason.
It will be my first choice when I get the necessary funds to build my next Schiada.

This is what i've learned being around Schiada's since 1981.

Scott

 

[SKIA36]

I/O.

Although there are some V-drives out there, but I do not know how they run.

V-drive is the only way to go. Unless you are going with a 6 drive, you are wasting your time trying to make an outdrive Schiada go fast.

20' Schiada v-drive, 900hp 468 tt gentry(Colburn) Kilo record 106mph

21' Schiada v-drive, 1200hp 540 tt gentry (Lynch) 109mph. A few 21s are running over 120mph. None are outdrives.

22 Schiada v-drive, 540 tt @1100hp, 102mph

SR22 (24) v-drive , 540 tt @1500hp, 116mph. THE ULTIMATE SCHIADA.


I dont know of any Schiadas w/outdrives that can go 100mph. Any one have one or know of one?

 

[Dale21RT]

Now you've gone and done it Linder, By your own account we were along side the 22SR at about 100 when RD was riding with you at notta regotta.
21 RT 800hp out drive! Maybe you, me, and RD were all drunk? But it's your story and I'm sticking to it! LOL

Dale

 

[LV R SCHIADA'S]

I'm pretty sure that Scott Ward's Brummett powered T.T. 21, or Steve Hatch's Brummett powered T.T. 21 are fully capable of running the 110 plus numbers, not sure if they wanted to push those speeds, and that was from the boys at Schiada, just sayin...................

 

[Tube Sock]

My 2006 24' with a 15 year old Pfaff producing 640 (blown) HP with a bravo XR will hit 84 - 86.

 

[SKIA36]

Now you've gone and done it Linder, By your own account we were along side the 22SR at about 100 when RD was riding with you at notta regotta.
21 RT 800hp out drive! Maybe you, me, and RD were all drunk? But it's your story and I'm sticking to it! LOL

Dale

Sorry Dale, but Tunnels are a different animal. Apples to apples!

 

[Dale21RT]

Sorry Dale, but Tunnels are a different animal. Apples to apples!

But it's a Schiada! But it's an outdrive! But it's red like an apple! So you are saying I'm DQ'd on a technicality? Dammit!

 

[SKIA36]

But it's a Schiada! But it's an outdrive! But it's red like an apple! So you are saying I'm DQ'd on a technicality? Dammit!

Technically speaking, yes, your boat still runs really good. Some blower motor 22 Stokers are claiming 130-140mph. Tunnels are fast but I cant say they are that fast.

800hp with an outdrive is pushing the reliability envelope for the drive. Have you had any outdrive problems?

 

[Racey]

Spanjin had a 20' schiada with a naturally aspirated, under 500cu-in (468 i think), hilborn injected, high compression, gasoline BBC, that ran 101 in the kilos. I'm guessing it made maybe 600hp tops...... this is back 15 years ago before cnc ported heads and all that good stuff.

As for the horsepower differences to get each one to go faster, i'd say some has to do with weight, and holding the wetted surface in, but i'd also say that front cross section, and wind drag is a huge factor. a 20' looks like a dart compared to a 21, stick your hand out into the fresh air when you are going 100, there has to be differences in drag of hundreds of pounds between each of the sizes.

 

[Dale21RT]

Technically speaking, yes, your boat still runs really good. Some blower motor 22 Stokers are claiming 130-140mph. Tunnels are fast but I cant say they are that fast.

800hp with an outdrive is pushing the reliability envelope for the drive. Have you had any outdrive problems?

Man what a tough crowd, to be fair and honest I think a 100 in my boat is on the edge of whats realistic, but this boat spends most of it's time at 35 to 45 mph either pulling skiers or just cruising. That being said I have had no drive problems! You've seen the motor, the same care has been taken with the drive, all Teague platinum gears, shafts etc. (But the thread said 100 mph it did'nt say for how long, but I guess thats a whole other can of worms.) Anyway let me know when that 140 stoker runs I wanna see that!

Cheers!
Dale

 

[SKIA36]

Man what a tough crowd, to be fair and honest I think a 100 in my boat is on the edge of whats realistic, but this boat spends most of it's time at 35 to 45 mph either pulling skiers or just cruising. That being said I have had no drive problems! You've seen the motor, the same care has been taken with the drive, all Teague platinum gears, shafts etc. (But the thread said 100 mph it did'nt say for how long, but I guess thats a whole other can of worms.) Anyway let me know when that 140 stoker runs I wanna see that!

Cheers!
Dale

Dont get me wrong Dale, your boat is awesome! It has just been my experience that Bravo outdrives have a higher failure rate with blower motors, especially at high speeds and when the prop loads/unloads when it leaves the water. You keep the boat in immaculate shape and I am sure you drive it with kid gloves, Kudos!

 

[SKIA36]

Spanjin had a 20' schiada with a naturally aspirated, under 500cu-in (468 i think), hilborn injected, high compression, gasoline BBC, that ran 101 in the kilos. I'm guessing it made maybe 600hp tops...... this is back 15 years ago before cnc ported heads and all that good stuff.

As for the horsepower differences to get each one to go faster, i'd say some has to do with weight, and holding the wetted surface in, but i'd also say that front cross section, and wind drag is a huge factor. a 20' looks like a dart compared to a 21, stick your hand out into the fresh air when you are going 100, there has to be differences in drag of hundreds of pounds between each of the sizes.

If a 20 is a dart, what is an SR22/24?

 

[Dale21RT]

If a 20 is a dart, what is an SR22/24?

In your case I'm thinking freeekin missle!!!!!!!!!

 

[FrznJim]

Thanks for that earlier post Dale, I'm happy you are a voice of reason. You had me concerned about doing 100 in a RT.

Last fall in Parker, I was running alongside my friend in his 21RT, we left him at 85 in our 21RC, and his boat looked like it was ready to fly. That thing was bouncing from sponson to sponson, didn't look good to us. We kind of shook our heads and went on by....

 

[Dale21RT]

Thanks for that earlier post Dale, I'm happy you are a voice of reason. You had me concerned about doing 100 in a RT.

Last fall in Parker, I was running alongside my friend in his 21RT, we left him at 85 in our 21RC, and his boat looked like it was ready to fly. That thing was bouncing from sponson to sponson, didn't look good to us. We kind of shook our heads and went on by....

Hi there Jim; Thanks for the info about JT's it worked out nice for us at notta regotta. As far as speed is concerned we've never made any claims,we just go with what people say! Ha Ha! We like to ski and the tunnel has a great wake for us. They do like fly the nose but that chine walking sounds like overtrim not any fun! Anyhow thanks for the kind words hope to see you in Sept!

Cheers
Dale

 

[RiverDave]

Thanks for that earlier post Dale, I'm happy you are a voice of reason. You had me concerned about doing 100 in a RT.

Last fall in Parker, I was running alongside my friend in his 21RT, we left him at 85 in our 21RC, and his boat looked like it was ready to fly. That thing was bouncing from sponson to sponson, didn't look good to us. We kind of shook our heads and went on by....

I had a buddy with an RT.. Blower motor deal (Dunno the HP) but he claimed his ran One teens pretty easily.

RD

 

[River Lynchmob]

V-drive is the only way to go. Unless you are going with a 6 drive, you are wasting your time trying to make an outdrive Schiada go fast.

20' Schiada v-drive, 900hp 468 tt gentry(Colburn) Kilo record 106mph

21' Schiada v-drive, 1200hp 540 tt gentry (Lynch) 109mph. A few 21s are running over 120mph. None are outdrives.

22 Schiada v-drive, 540 tt @1100hp, 102mph

SR22 (24) v-drive , 540 tt @1500hp, 116mph. THE ULTIMATE SCHIADA.


I dont know of any Schiadas w/outdrives that can go 100mph. Any one have one or know of one?

Mine ran 106 on GPS with that last motor...1080 hp...this one dynod at 1312 hp and I have seen 111...i might be able to get a couple more out of it tops...it's a very heavy 21...laid up for ski racing plus has a ballest tank and a 17 gallon belly tank

I know a few of the 21s have Brummett fuel injected TT that run right at 120

 

[RiverDave]

I still want to make a pass in the PPE Lynch.. :swear

RD

 

[River Lynchmob]

I still want to make a pass in the PPE Lynch.. :swear

RD

I'll be out next weekend

 

[RiverDave]

I'll be out next weekend

I don't think I'll be out again until the 4th.. mabye the weeekend befoer the 4th.

Call me back by the way..

RD

 

[River Lynchmob]

I don't think I'll be out again until the 4th.. mabye the weeekend befoer the 4th.

Call me back by the way..

RD

Ill give you a ring when I leave the office.

 

[highlimit9000]

Does anybody have any real world #'s as to what it would take to make a

20 - 100 mph
21 - 100 mph
22 - 100 mph..

RD

Dave, I can tell you my numbers for the 22'. First off this boat was layed up very heavy, so i bet the weight is more than normal. The bottom was checked for hook and speed coated from Prime. My 598 made 990 HP and 1013 Ft pounds of torque at 5600 RPM. I am running 48's and a Kinsvator 2 blade 11 7/8 X 15 Steel prop. The blower is an 8-71 overdriven 11.9% making 8.5 pounds of boost. The boat is hitting 90 on GPS, not bad for a heavy cruiser! The boat is very smooth at speed and is not very wet according to photos and video. I have room for more over drive and boost should i Choose Av gas. I am thinking of going to 18% overdrive on the blower and trying an 11 7/8 X 16 prop leaving in the 48 gears. I spoke with Tom bentley about it, Will see, maybe see 93-95?...:hmm

 

[RiverDave]

Just reread the post again.. nevermind. LOL

(At first I was thinking you were going to change the prop to a 16 and the gears in the v-drive to 18's.. took me a minute to realize you were talking about upping the boost on the blower to 18%)

So we have a 20'er on here that runs 99 with 850HP
And a 22 that runs 90 - with 990 HP..

I guess it does take gobs more power to push the bigger ones..

RD

 

[highlimit9000]

Just reread the post again.. nevermind. LOL

(At first I was thinking you were going to change the prop to a 16 and the gears in the v-drive to 18's.. took me a minute to realize you were talking about upping the boost on the blower to 18%)

So we have a 20'er on here that runs 99 with 850HP
And a 22 that runs 90 - with 990 HP..

I guess it does take gobs more power to push the bigger ones..

RD

yah I see what you mean after reading it again, I edited it to make more sense. John

 

[W.O.T MARINE]

my two sence on the different rides in the 3 boat yet 2 of 3 have same bottom.

I am on the running surfaces the cockpits in all these boats are different so im guess the c/g are different weight and balance etc. at least i know the 20 has a much smaller one than the 22.


i think its all in the weight and balance Todds old 21 schiada o/b ( #627) is about 80 mph with a built 2.5 merc has back seat but lightest schiada ever built.

just my thoughts.

 

[aaronschiada]

you show me a 24ft schiada that does 98 with 850hp on radar, and i'll show you a 21 that does mach 1 with a briggs and straton on pump gas!

regarding the issue as to how they came up with the 21 and 22, i was told that they had they cut the 21 from the 22. its the same hull, with the free board cut down, which in turn, shortened the length like 10 inches, and of course a squattier top.

 

[aaronschiada]

...and the 20 and the 19 are just two different animals all together.

 

[River Lynchmob]

An open bow '24 will be right at 98 with an 850.

Whos 24 open bow ran 98 with 850 hp?

 

[FrznJim]

Lynch, I second that about the 24. BTW my red 21RC will do a buck also with 1049hp so don't know where everyone is coming up with 1100 to 1200 to get to 100 with a 21.

 

[LV R SCHIADA'S]

I believe that guy that owns the almost all white 24' v-drive (was at the last regatta) with the blown motor (540+, if memory serves) noted that his 24' was only running in the mid 90's, if memory serves correctly.......he is the second owner of the boat.

Now if you were say running a 1075 Mercury setup with a #6 drive, maybe you might see 95-100 ????, and don't know of any 24's that have had this combo, mostly 525's ???

But someone could give Lee a call and ask him the scoop on what he believes a 24 will safely run with big hp (1000+) and either in v-drive config or stern drive config ??????

 

[Racey]

Don's blue open bow 24' with an extension box and a 525 that runs up here at mead, 87mph with a bravo, ask Lee, Lynch you know Don, Danny Aldrich's best friend.

 

[Tube Sock]

you show me a 24ft schiada that does 98 with 850hp on radar, and i'll show you a 21 that does mach 1 with a briggs and straton on pump gas!

regarding the issue as to how they came up with the 21 and 22, i was told that they had they cut the 21 from the 22. its the same hull, with the free board cut down, which in turn, shortened the length like 10 inches, and of course a squattier top.

Dave Mirabella's 24 (BTW he is the owner of the MTI that Schiada did the rigging and the tilt trailer). It was tested by Powerboat Magazine 4 years ago at Parker, Tomlinson driving and Teague with the radar gun. It was set up with a Teague 850 and an IMCO I/O. I was on the water when they were testing and saw the results post test. It also had the fastest 0-30, 30-60 and etc. times of any of the boats tested in that issue and a lot of the subsequent issues.

Can I now have a ride in the Mach 1 21'

 

[River Lynchmob]

Don's blue open bow 24' with an extension box and a 525 that runs up here at mead, 87mph with a bravo, ask Lee, Lynch you know Don, Danny Aldrich's best friend.

Not buying it Stenton...not with 525...75 MAYBE. Talking to Carson he says he doesn't know of 24 out there that has run over 85 v drive, I/O or other...other than Linder's. Not saying I don't like 24s...I love them just repeating what Carson has said and everyone knows he doesn't bull shit about anything.

 

[Racey]

I have ridden in the boat, you know I am the biggest skeptic around when it comes to bullshit HP and MPH numbers, i didn't believe it till i rode in it.

Extension box and trimmed to the max on glass absolute ringing the thing out for every penny and nothing in the boat i could see it, i rode in the boat back to the ramp with 5 other people, after linder's boat flung a blade at mead, full load of coolers, skis, gas, etc, it cruised 50mph with the bimini up not even breaking a sweat. Absolutely surprised the shit out of me, i know Don lurks the boards here, maybe he'll see this and chime in , the last time i heard from him he called me in tears after watching that video of me being a drunk badass at Daves