Max Machine Works whale tail report

[tkrrox]

May not apply to my 22sport(Cole bottom) long big delta pad. And suggested that this hill doesn't like a big block.
Actually ventilates a little under hard accelaration(my 20.5 bahner, and 210 never did this, my 255 some). 20-30 no problem, about 32 -42 porpoises and gets worse unless put into a slight turn. 42 and above rock solid flat smooth. Surprisingly only does high 60's with a stock rebuilt 502(509) I could exhaust and supposed tune by whipper...

Until over 40 can't use any positive trim or starts to cavitate, especially if anyone in bow. Believe its stock bravo and regular drive height.

I have a rev 4 and bravo prop. Both work similar.

Ok my Cole skier, it felt the best with a 5 blade. Next was a 4 blade. Absolutely scary with a 3 blade


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[rrrr]

It's kinda funny these plates are becoming popular with performance boaters. I remember ads for the Doel Fin back in the 70s. There were lots of Johnson 75s on Glastron tri-hulls that had one installed.

 

[BHC Vic]

It's kinda funny these plates are becoming popular with performance boaters. I remember ads for the Doel Fin back in the 70s. There were lots of Johnson 75s on Glastron tri-hulls that had one installed.

Lol our bayliner in the 90’s has one. Wouldn’t plane without one. Was a big cabin boat. I was a little kid dont remember much about it. Just remember helping my nino install it. Or hold tools at least

 

[TomD]

Ran one similar on my OB. Helped getting on plane and stayed on plane longer when slowing down. When on plane it was more or less out of the water so it didn't do too much + or -. That looks very similar to one that Allison Boat used to make.

 

[Cdog]

Just got back. I couldn’t run it hard since I had my kids with me. Looking at the tabs, they are at even plane with the hull/stern. So right off the bat it seems I’m using less tab to minimize the bow slap. Since I don’t have a tab gauge I’m going off what I had seen before the drive plate.

Planes super easy but that was never a problem for this boat. I saw 65 mph with 3/4 full tanks with more to go so it looks like I may ave pick up a couple of mph that I lost with the rev 4 prop.

I still need to test it with 1/2 tank or less and try the bravo 4 prop. I can definitely say this drive plate tamed some of quirkiness with trying to find the sweet spot when driving the boat across the board. Net positive so far.

 

[Headless hula]

Just got back. I couldn’t run it hard since I had my kids with me. Looking at the tabs, they are at even plane with the hull/stern. So right off the bat it seems I’m using less tab to minimize the bow slap. Since I don’t have a tab gauge I’m going off what I had seen before the drive plate.

Planes super easy but that was never a problem for this boat. I saw 65 mph with 3/4 full tanks with more to go so it looks like I may ave pick up a couple of mph that I lost with the rev 4 prop.

I still need to test it with 1/2 tank or less and try the bravo 4 prop. I can definitely say this drive plate tamed some of quirkiness with trying to find the sweet spot when driving the boat across the board. Net positive so far.

View attachment 749028
View attachment 749029

Hopefully you can get that starboard swim step bracket welded and the screws put back in tight.
Glad to see positive results with your new addition.

 

[Cdog]

Curious why the whale tail on what appears to be a Vee ? Didn't want to roll over and plane easily ? Usually with drive trim and tabs, that's not a problem with a standard depth lower. As we all have learned it's all about the compromises versus priorities. My Cole would much prefer a Mach for wringing out a few extra on the top end. I'm pretty sure a -2" lower would aide in that quest as well. But I've never been willing to sacrifice the ability to pop on plane easily and be able to pull up a skier.

Just wondering what you're trying to accomplish ?

Eliminate having to use to much tab to stop the bow slap.

 

[Cdog]

Hopefully you can get that starboard swim step bracket welded and the screws put back in tight.
Glad to see positive results with your new addition.

Ya. Always something new to fix....

 

[wet hull]

I installed mine today. Hopefully the results are worth the PIA to get set right and squared up. No instructions or templates. If they provided a template it would be a 30 min or less install. Does look good on the drive. Went with satin.

 

[Xring01]

Are these aluminum or stainless steel?

 

[Cdog]

Are these aluminum or stainless steel?

Stainless. Brushed or polished.

 

[Xring01]

Reason I asked...

Perma Trims are Aluminum

 

[d4l]

Glad I found this thread.
This is another thing I had never seen before coming to Havasu. Friend who was with me wants to try it on the IMP. Tho getting into plane isnt really a problem, as the boat is so heavy up front. What are the other pros?

Problem with the other Nick is that he sees something he jumps on it w/o any real questions asked lol leaves it to me to seek info, cheer on when needed and pull the break when he are going into the wrong lane!

Good for me for learning a ton!
Bad for when it is something that might not be such a good idea for that boat, costs time and money.


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[2FORCEFULL]

Question???? why not just do tunnel tabs on the cats????

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Glad I found this thread.
This is another thing I had never seen before coming to Havasu. Friend who was with me wants to try it on the IMP. Tho getting into plane isnt really a problem, as the boat is so heavy up front. What are the other pros?

Problem with the other Nick is that he sees something he jumps on it w/o any real questions asked lol leaves it to me to seek info, cheer on when needed and pull the break when he are going into the wrong lane!

Good for me for learning a ton!
Bad for when it is something that might not be such a good idea for that boat, costs time and money.


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If the X dimension is high enough that the cav plate is pretty much out of the water on plane, I don't believe there is much other advantage to it.

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[Ultra247]

I just installed full hydraulic steering on my Magic 28 Deck. I decided to install the MMX top cap and the drive tail. The boat really works to get on plane at 3500 rpm with a 24 pitch Bravo prop and without the tab. The boat is in the garage with the tab. I'll try it out Memorial day and give feedback. I hope that she rolls on plane a lot easier.

 

[wet hull]

I just installed full hydraulic steering on my Magic 28 Deck. I decided to install the MMX top cap and the drive tail. The boat really works to get on plane at 3500 rpm with a 24 pitch Bravo prop and without the tab. The boat is in the garage with the tab. I'll try it out Memorial day and give feedback. I hope that she rolls on plane a lot easier. View attachment 752883

How far from the drive to outside edge was your tail? Mine was 3 3/4". No idea if that is close or not

 

[wet hull]

Update. I baby my drive going to plain as well as coming off plain. Typically I was around 4000 rpm to plain. I would bould up to about 2000rpm and then give more gas to plain. I have 650hp behind a bravo 1 drive. I was able to roll over at 3000 rpm keeping my typical routine in place. Once on plain I did not notice any difference. I definitely did not lose any performance and look to have gained. So far a good purchase. Memorial weekend will be the real test with 4 adults and 3 kids.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

I just installed full hydraulic steering on my Magic 28 Deck. I decided to install the MMX top cap and the drive tail. The boat really works to get on plane at 3500 rpm with a 24 pitch Bravo prop and without the tab. The boat is in the garage with the tab. I'll try it out Memorial day and give feedback. I hope that she rolls on plane a lot easier. View attachment 752883

Hmm

feel as tho i may have seen a Magic with that tail, on Thursday

 

[spectras only]

For what it's worth, I would countersunk the holes in the plate and use SS Allen fasteners for a smooth finish. The Max Machine unit is a nice piece but, if I made my own plate, I would use less lip, [ 1/2" would suffice ] adding rigidity to it.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

For what it's worth, I would countersunk the holes in the plate and use SS Allen fasteners for a smooth finish. The Max Machine unit is a nice piece but, if I made my own plate, I would use less lip, [ 1/2" would suffice ] adding rigidity to it.

The counter sunk hole is actually a great and easy to accomplish idea, but what do you mean by less lip? These are 7/32” thick.

 

[spectras only]

The counter sunk hole is actually a great and easy to accomplish idea, but what do you mean by less lip? These are 7/32” thick.

The lip I refer to is the bent down outer edge on both sides. You don't see that on the M drives, because their tail is thick cast to handle force when getting on plane. I just like sleek looks and wonder if anyone tested these add on whale tails for need of a large lip. It looks in the picture, the plate is at least 5/16 or 1/4 SS, should be plenty strong.

 

[wet hull]

I did contemplate beveling the leading edges to a 45 deg or higher. Then I realized I had not yet bought work beer and that outweighed the benefit. In all seriousness its benefits beyond clean looks are probably non measurable to the common person.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

The lip I refer to is the bent down outer edge on both sides. You don't see that on the M drives, because their tail is thick cast to handle force when getting on plane. I just like sleek looks and wonder if anyone tested these add on whale tails for need of a large lip. It looks in the picture, the plate is at least 5/16 or 1/4 SS, should be plenty strong.

They are actually 7/32” or .216” to be exact so a microhair under.

 

[shippingguy]

This is the one I had on my 2007 Ultra 27 Shadow with TEAGUE 800. Bob did testing and put this one on. A bit bigger than the ones MMW has. Worked amazing!

You can see mine angled down just on the back not on the sides.

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[Ultra247]

Hmm View attachment 752926 View attachment 752927 View attachment 752928 feel as tho i may have seen a Magic with that tail, on Thursday

02Howard26, That looks like my baby in the Max Machine Works parking lot!!

I haven't even seen it yet. It's in the garage. How'd she look??

I'm going through the magic little by little! I've run out of time for this season so I'll have to run it for this year and then keep upgrading next winter.

 

[Ultra247]

Hmm View attachment 752926 View attachment 752927 View attachment 752928 feel as tho i may have seen a Magic with that tail, on Thursday

OK...

Just to be clear... I personally installed the full hydraulic steering. I took it to Max Machine works and had them install the plate, top cap and new drive shower. They did a drive service while it was in there.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

This is the one I had on my 2007 Ultra 27 Shadow with TEAGUE 800. Bob did testing and put this one on. A bit bigger than the ones MMW has. Worked amazing!

You can see mine angled down just on the back not on the sides.

View attachment 753124


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Very interesting, do you still have it, and still have that boat?
If so i think it’d be bad ass, take your boat and run with yours, then the MMW one, id remove mine and just let you use it, as well the small stock size IMCO plate. Just to make a legit one boat three plate test.

 

[02HoWaRd26]

02Howard26, That looks like my baby in the Max Machine Works parking lot!!

I haven't even seen it yet. It's in the garage. How'd she look??

I'm going through the magic little by little! I've run out of time for this season so I'll have to run it for this year and then keep upgrading next winter.

Yea, that’s Aaron’s hand. I showed up to drop mine off as they were hooking up to deliver yours.
I picked up a plate for @wet hull and dropped it at his house and took photos of yours to show him the install location etc.

 

[Singleton]

Very interesting, do you still have it, and still have that boat?
If so i think it’d be bad ass, take your boat and run with yours, then the MMW one, id remove mine and just let you use it, as well the small stock size IMCO plate. Just to make a legit one boat three plate test.

Mike sold his boat a couple seasons ago.

 

[shippingguy]

Very interesting, do you still have it, and still have that boat?
If so i think it’d be bad ass, take your boat and run with yours, then the MMW one, id remove mine and just let you use it, as well the small stock size IMCO plate. Just to make a legit one boat three plate test.

Yeah I sold it two summers ago. I had a MMW MXS-1 Billet Drive on it as well.


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[JDizel]

UPDATE!!! 2006 ultra shadow 27 with 700hp and Imco SC drive. Installed one last weekend and it didn't do shit. Boat still planes at the same rpm and rides the same throughout the trim settings. Machined finish, will sell for $225.00 if anyone wants it.

 

[Ballyhoo]

Will do y’all! The howard & Schiada I/o’s suffer from a terrible bow slap when u are trimmed out and trying to get speed out of the hull when you hit a wake or mixed water. I was told by some old timers this was because the stern angle is not ideal for the I/o as the molds were V drives. A drive wedge will fix the problem but I have yet to see something like this available on the market.

I put a revolution 4 prop on the boat and it improved the ride exponentially. Much smoother ride with the stern lift the prop provides. I lost 5mph on the top end but it was worth it.

The boat has never had an issue getting on plane with the drive down but I assume this plate should help it work even better.

I’ll update on Sunday. If you see me around Parker tomorrow or havi Sunday with two kids say hi! Pulling dad duty while wife is on a work trip on the east coast.

Cheers!

My 24 Schiada I/O doesn't bow slap at all.

 

[RiverDave]

UPDATE!!! 2006 ultra shadow 27 with 700hp and Imco SC drive. Installed one last weekend and it didn't do shit. Boat still planes at the same rpm and rides the same throughout the trim settings. Machined finish, will sell for $225.00 if anyone wants it.

That is pretty surprising to me..

 

[RiverDave]

Will do y’all! The howard & Schiada I/o’s suffer from a terrible bow slap when u are trimmed out and trying to get speed out of the hull when you hit a wake or mixed water. I was told by some old timers this was because the stern angle is not ideal for the I/o as the molds were V drives. A drive wedge will fix the problem but I have yet to see something like this available on the market.

I put a revolution 4 prop on the boat and it improved the ride exponentially. Much smoother ride with the stern lift the prop provides. I lost 5mph on the top end but it was worth it.

The boat has never had an issue getting on plane with the drive down but I assume this plate should help it work even better.


I’ll update on Sunday. If you see me around Parker tomorrow or havi Sunday with two kids say hi! Pulling dad duty while wife is on a work trip on the east coast.

Cheers!

Both the Howard and Schiada have extremely long keels and a good entry. The Schiada has more deadrise then the Howard. Both boats like to run flat. If you trim them up then you are eliminating the long keel and entry and basically counting on a 12 degree v to cut through the chop and that isn’t going to work that well.

In my experience both hulls don’t really go any faster on smooth water running fairly flat (neutral trim) than trimmed up and on the tale.

When I rub my 21 it’s about neutral on trim and the tabs are about even with the bottom of the boat just to extend the hull. If the water gets rough the tabs go down just a hair. Depending on which prop I’m running depends on where the trim goes in various circumstances. Some like a little tab and positive trim. Some like neutral etc.

 

[Waterheater]

UPDATE!!! 2006 ultra shadow 27 with 700hp and Imco SC drive. Installed one last weekend and it didn't do shit. Boat still planes at the same rpm and rides the same throughout the trim settings. Machined finish, will sell for $225.00 if anyone wants it.

If you're serious, I would be interested in it.

 

[wet hull]

Can someone let me the distance from drive to outer edge of tail? Curious if mine is mounted at right distance. I installed mine. No directions

 

[Cdog]

Both the Howard and Schiada have extremely long keels and a good entry. The Schiada has more deadrise then the Howard. Both boats like to run flat. If you trim them up then you are eliminating the long keel and entry and basically counting on a 12 degree v to cut through the chop and that isn’t going to work that well.

In my experience both hulls don’t really go any faster on smooth water running fairly flat (neutral trim) than trimmed up and on the tale.

When I rub my 21 it’s about neutral on trim and the tabs are about even with the bottom of the boat just to extend the hull. If the water gets rough the tabs go down just a hair. Depending on which prop I’m running depends on where the trim goes in various circumstances. Some like a little tab and positive trim. Some like neutral etc.

Since we last spoke about all this last season I’ve had some time to add the prop & drive plate we discussed.

I’m able to get the boat to ride on the back 1/3rd of the hull. Starting About where the skag on the bottom of the boat is. This allows me to skip over the majority of the chop I run into now which has made the ride much smoother & comfortable. This was more or less my goal. With the size of some of the wakes & rollers out there now days i wanted this figured out so I don’t scare the shit out of my kids.

I shouldn’t really go any faster than 70 mph until i get hydraulic steering.

Time to start saving cash for a 27 Speedster.

 

[Cdog]

My 24 Schiada I/O doesn't bow slap at all.

I was referring to the 21 I/o’s but thats good to know because my dads in the market for a 24.

 

[JDizel]

If you're serious, I would be interested in it.

Yep i'm serious. Boats in Needles and i will be back out on the 31st. Let me know

 

[mjc]

I just installed full hydraulic steering on my Magic 28 Deck. I decided to install the MMX top cap and the drive tail. The boat really works to get on plane at 3500 rpm with a 24 pitch Bravo prop and without the tab. The boat is in the garage with the tab. I'll try it out Memorial day and give feedback. I hope that she rolls on plane a lot easier. View attachment 752883

So how did this work? My broke drive is a Max now and he says I need one on my 28 magic.

 

[mnakunz]

Yep i'm serious. Boats in Needles and i will be back out on the 31st. Let me know

Did you ever sell your Cav Plate? Id be interested and can pick up local So Cal or out in needles / Havasu area, LMW

 

[Sherpa]

I'd go a step further and counter sink the holes from the bottom up and use counter sunk allen
head screws in it. get it close enough and ZERO drag effect or turbulence underwater.

--Sherpa

 

[Ultra247]

So how did this work? My broke drive is a Max now and he says I need one on my 28 magic.

I ran the magic with the plate this weekend. It ran well with 8 people on the boat. I didn’t see a “massive difference” but it was probably a little better. I’d say worth doing but don’t expect a miracle. 28’ decks just need time and hp to plane!!
I’m installing tabs next...

 

[mjc]

I ran the magic with the plate this weekend. It ran well with 8 people on the boat. I didn’t see a “massive difference” but it was probably a little better. I’d say worth doing but don’t expect a miracle. 28’ decks just need time and hp to plane!!
I’m installing tabs next...

Ok I already have tabs so not sure I need this. Thanks for the info.

 

[Havasu Rehab]

Be careful with these. They are havoc on gimbal rings and other trim/steering components which are costly repairs.

In the short term, yes your boat will perform better. On the long term, they will wear out the transom components about 10x faster because of the extra load forces being translated through the drive.

I recommend the extra few dollars for a set of proper trim tabs

So it’s been a few years since this thread was posted. Anyone have any long term reviews?

Anyone have any problems stated by @shlbybtro mentioned above?

 

[Singleton]

So it’s been a few years since this thread was posted. Anyone have any long term reviews?

Anyone have any problems stated by @shlbybtro mentioned above?

I have had one for almost 10 years.
Zero issues and my shop checks those wear components annually.
That said, I don’t mash the throttle getting up and going

 

[Havasu Rehab]

I have had one for almost 10 years.
Zero issues and my shop checks those wear components annually.
That said, I don’t mash the throttle getting up and going

Awesome. Thanks for the review. This was recommended to me by Flat Tops Marine during the annual service. Just wanted to do some homework.

 

[yard dog]

I have one for sale 150.00 ,pick up in Fort Mohave .

 

[Ladsm]

If Rehab isnt interested in it @yard dog i will take 2nd in line for it. I want to be able to stay on plane at lower speeds for running from Bullhead down to Needles in the shallow areas