Let’s talk about Quads. Which one to buy?

[rivermobster]

i have a yfz513 i'd love to get rid of. it never gits ridden. needs a clutch, battery, rebuild on the elka shocks and you have 20k banshee killer. 2k. i need the space.

Do you have sand tires and rims for this beast?

 

[OCMerrill]

With that said I suppose it would depend on the experience level of your friends and family.
The LT 400 would be a good all around use machine for those less experienced yet still have some ass to sling around for those that can.
If there’s any beginners in the group a banshee would be the last machine I’d choose to let someone start on. Well, except an ATC 250r

All true. My Ocean Boat partner has two of those LT400's and they were complete running drama until he gave up and threw the factory diaphragm carbs away. Forums are full of how to make them run and start perfect. So if you get one in stock form and let it sit a year, you are not getting it started. Ebay has your huckleberry for super cheap. You can just leave the TPS unplugged makes no difference, so I'm told.

WARNING....Side note 250R the kick starter kicks forward. More of a problem for folks than you would think. Led me to a 400EX which had no power, wife rolled at the top of a dune, said thats it. So a 400ex can kill your marriage...trust me.

 

[stokerwhore]

Do you have sand tires and rims for this beast?

i do but they're 10 years old at least. sand geckos or some such if i remember. just the rears. it just spins the shit out of them.

 

[RiverDave]

stokerwhore's sounds like a crazy good deal to me..

If I was buying one today I'd be looking for a 450. Love the nostalgia of the Banshee, but the 4 stroke electric start wins out.

RD

 

[69hondo]

85 or 86 ATC 250r and smoke them all.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Find a banshee with a 4mm cheetah cub, +2 +1 a-arms a +4 swing arm, good shocks and be done with it. Best bike you will ever own. 90hp all day long and ride amazing.

People that say banshees handle like shit never learned to ride!! Or learned to set-up/tune a bike! Jmo

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

4strokes have just as many problems as a 2stroke. So dont let people tell you they don't!

 

[69hondo]

4strokes have just as many problems as a 2stroke. So dont let people tell you they don't!

and twice as expensive to fix.

 

[Marltony]

Personally, the best for me is the Raptor 700. It proved to be very cool

 

[69hondo]

We are fans of the 250r

 

[Uncle Dave]

700 Raptor for the win. YFZ450 if you’re a more competitive rider.

On long dune rides the 700 works for every rider of every skill and is super comfy and forgiving in everything but a crash when that monster lands on you.

Immediately regretted buying a 700 and 450 and should have bought 2 700's.

 

[rivermobster]

4strokes have just as many problems as a 2stroke. So dont let people tell you they don't!

Speaking from experience are you?

Cause I've owned both. I'll take my electric start EFI over a 2 smoke any ol day.

Especially at altitude. 2 smokes don't do well above 7k ft. Neither do 4 stroke carbs for that matter.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Speaking from experience are you?

Cause I've owned both. I'll take my electric start EFI over a 2 smoke any ol day.

Especially at altitude. 2 smokes don't do well above 7k ft. Neither do 4 stroke carbs for that matter.

Yep, I have a little experience in ATV's

EFI on an atv also runs like crap at altitude. They are not a closed loop EFI system so they have no clue where they are at and do not compensate for elevation, hence no o2 sensor in them. There is a few aftermarket fuel controllers now that will compensate about 20% but still not impressed with them.

A 2stroke or 4stroke carbed, if you know you are climbing that high in elevation or dropping elevation, it is a simple jet change.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Speaking from experience are you?

Cause I've owned both. I'll take my electric start EFI over a 2 smoke any ol day.

Especially at altitude. 2 smokes don't do well above 7k ft. Neither do 4 stroke carbs for that matter.

And yes electric is nice until you are miles from camp and the one-way takes a shit. 660s were the worst for that hence the L&A one-way upgrade.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Speaking from experience are you?

Cause I've owned both. I'll take my electric start EFI over a 2 smoke any ol day.

Especially at altitude. 2 smokes don't do well above 7k ft. Neither do 4 stroke carbs for that matter.

People that bitch about 2strokes think you can richen them up by simply adding more oil to the gas most dont understand the concept and "tuning". Granted you can't just push a button to start a 2stroke atv(unless it's a GasGas) but if it takes more than a couple kicks to start, you are doing it wrong!

 

[rivermobster]

Yep, I have a little experience in ATV's

EFI on an atv also runs like crap at altitude. They are not a closed loop EFI system so they have no clue where they are at and do not compensate for elevation, hence no o2 sensor in them. There is a few aftermarket fuel controllers now that will compensate about 20% but still not impressed with them.

A 2stroke or 4stroke carbed, if you know you are climbing that high in elevation or dropping elevation, it is a simple jet change.

That's odd...

My LT-R and my buddies 700 Raptor run great at altitude! We've run up to almost 12k ft with no issues at all.

My Z400 craps out bad at about 8k.

P.S. o2 sensors don't compensate for altitude. They compensate for fuel mixture only.

A barometer sensor compensates for altitude changes.

Suzuki calls it a Intake Air Pressure sensor (same thing). That's why they run good at Any altitude.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

People that bitch about 2strokes think you can richen them up by simply adding more oil to the gas most dont understand the concept and "tuning". Granted you can't just push a button to start a 2stroke atv(unless it's a GasGas) but if it takes more than a couple kicks to start, you are doing it wrong!

And if need be I can have my wife come show you how to start a kick start 2stroke in her flip flops
@n2otoofast4u

 

[rivermobster]

People that bitch about 2strokes think you can richen them up by simply adding more oil to the gas most dont understand the concept and "tuning". Granted you can't just push a button to start a 2stroke atv(unless it's a GasGas) but if it takes more than a couple kicks to start, you are doing it wrong!

Clearly you're not familiar with a KTM 300 either.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

That's odd...

My LT-R and my buddies 700 Raptor run great at altitude! We've run up to almost 12k ft with no issues at all.

My Z400 craps out bad at about 8k.

P.S. o2 sensors don't compensate for altitude. They compensate for fuel mixture only.

A barometer sensor compensates for altitude changes.

Suzuki calls it a Intake Air Pressure sensor (same thing). That's why they run good at Any altitude.

That IAP doesn't compensate for fuel at altitude. The main thing on fuel injection in an atv is that the EFI doesnt require air to draw the fuel. It has the same injector pressure no matter were it is at. A carb requires air to pass the venturie on the emulsion tube to draw the fuel from the float bowl. That is why the EFI appears to run better at elevation. The newer stuff in the last few years may compensate but I'm not sure on that as I dont build or work on them anymore.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Clearly you're not familiar with a KTM 300 either.

So KTM is making an electric start 300cc 2stroke atv now??

 

[rivermobster]

So KTM is making an electric start 300cc 2stroke atv now??

Dude. Seriously?

Only since 2008!

When did you say your experience with quads and shit was?? You're a bit behind the times!

 

[rivermobster]

For the 2020 model year KTM began providing U.S. customers both the 300 XC-W and 300 XC with TPI and oil injection, thus eliminating all carbureted 300's from the US market. Both models benefit from updated EFI mapping and a new air pressure sensor

 

[rivermobster]

So KTM is making an electric start 300cc 2stroke atv now??

To clarify...

It's not a ATV, it's a dirt bike. But yeah, electric start 2 strokes have been around for awhile.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Dude. Seriously?

Only since 2008!

When did you say your experience with quads and shit was?? You're a bit behind the times!

Hmm.. you have a picture of a 300 electric start 2stroke atv from KTM?

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

To clarify...

It's not a ATV, it's a dirt bike. But yeah, electric start 2 strokes have been around for awhile.

No shit!! But that's not an atv

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

To clarify...

It's not a ATV, it's a dirt bike. But yeah, electric start 2 strokes have been around for awhile.

Like I said, GasGas is the only one to produce an electric start 2stroke ATV! So now.. where does your experience come from

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

I dont claim I know much and never will. But ATVs and home building I know a thing or 2

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

That's odd...

My LT-R and my buddies 700 Raptor run great at altitude! We've run up to almost 12k ft with no issues at all.

My Z400 craps out bad at about 8k.

P.S. o2 sensors don't compensate for altitude. They compensate for fuel mixture only.

A barometer sensor compensates for altitude changes.

Suzuki calls it a Intake Air Pressure sensor (same thing). That's why they run good at Any altitude.

And yes the o2 does not compensate for altitude, it compensates for "rich and lean" AFR, but what happens as you raise and lower in altitude? The AFR changes and the o2 compensates for that. But I know nothing only have thousands of hours on my old dyno building fuel maps for ATV's sxs and dirtbikes! So I'll just keep quiet.


To the OP good luck with your new purchase. What ever you decide to get I'm sure it will be a great time!!

 

[rivermobster]

Like I said, GasGas is the only one to produce an electric start 2stroke ATV! So now.. where does your experience come from

Sorry. I thought we were discussing technology, not just ATV's.

Man I haven't heard anyone talk about GasGas for ages, you must be as old as me!

My first quad was an OG Blaster. I beat the shit outa that thing, and it's never broke! Except for the top end, but we both know how that sorta thing goes. . In the end, the bottom end finally gave out, so I gave it to a family member.

I have pics of my GPS on the bars of my Z400 Somewhere. It was in July on the Arpeen trail system. We couldn't go any further cause a snowbank covered the trails.

The Z barely ran at that altitude. I was lucky I made it that far. When we went back a couple years later, with my LT-R, that quad ran flawlessly at the same altitude.

We were at 11.7k feet.

So my experience with quads at altitude is real life experiences. The Arpeen Trail System is an an off road paradise.

Arapeen OHV Trail System: Riding in the Heart of Utah

The Arapeen features over 350 miles of high-altitude trails over diverse terrain. There are trails appropriate for various skill levels and machines.

www.rockymountainatvmc.com

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Off topic but based on @TPC recommendation I got a Kayo Predator 125cc Quad for my kid. It is about the size of an normal 80-90cc quad. It is really good and it’s big enough and got enough power to lug an adult around camp.

 

[calkid]

888

All true. My Ocean Boat partner has two of those LT400's and they were complete running drama until he gave up and threw the factory diaphragm carbs away. Forums are full of how to make them run and start perfect. So if you get one in stock form and let it sit a year, you are not getting it started. Ebay has your huckleberry for super cheap. You can just leave the TPS unplugged makes no difference, so I'm told.

WARNING....Side note 250R the kick starter kicks forward. More of a problem for folks than you would think. Led me to a 400EX which had no power, wife rolled at the top of a dune, said thats it. So a 400ex can kill your marriage...trust me.

Sooo.......buy the 400ex?

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Sorry. I thought we were discussing technology, not just ATV's.

Man I haven't heard anyone talk about GasGas for ages, you must be as old as me!

My first quad was an OG Blaster. I beat the shit outa that thing, and it's never broke! Except for the top end, but we both know how that sorta thing goes. . In the end, the bottom end finally gave out, so I gave it to a family member.

I have pics of my GPS on the bars of my Z400 Somewhere. It was in July on the Arpeen trail system. We couldn't go any further cause a snowbank covered the trails.

The Z barely ran at that altitude. I was lucky I made it that far. When we went back a couple years later, with my LT-R, that quad ran flawlessly at the same altitude.

We were at 11.7k feet.

So my experience with quads at altitude is real life experiences. The Arpeen Trail System is an an off road paradise.

Arapeen OHV Trail System: Riding in the Heart of Utah

The Arapeen features over 350 miles of high-altitude trails over diverse terrain. There are trails appropriate for various skill levels and machines.

www.rockymountainatvmc.com

All my experience is real life also. The dyno is just another tool for the end result!

I have built motors to run Pikes Peak motors for Baja and motors to run El Moreeb in UAE. All atv shit!

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Off topic but based on @TPC recommendation I got a Kayo Predator 125cc Quad for my kid. It is about the size of an normal 80-90cc quad. It is really good and it’s big enough and got enough power to lug an adult around camp.

Did they start putting decent size tires and wheels on that stuff yet? The chinese 125s always seemed to have a narrow wheel with tiny tires(same size they had on the 50cc's), which was fun for the adults after the kids went to bed

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Did they start putting decent size tires and wheels on that stuff yet? The chinese 125s always seemed to have a narrow wheel with tiny tires(same size they had on the 50cc's), which was fun for the adults after the kids went to bed

Yea it’s got big wheels, good tires, awesome brakes and decent adjustable suspension.

I just took all the EGR/emissions stuff off with the factory air cleaner and put a regular UNI filter on it. I removed the caps on the carb adjustment screws and put in a different screw with a jam nut for the speed governor. It does close to 20 with me on it in the street, and the governor is only open 2/3.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Yea it’s got big wheels, good tires, awesome brakes and decent adjustable suspension.

I just took all the EGR/emissions stuff off with the factory air cleaner and put a regular UNI filter on it. I removed the caps on the carb adjustment screws and put in a different screw with a jam nut for the speed governor. It does close to 20 with me on it in the street, and the governor is only open 2/3.


View attachment 1044059

That's good they stepped up their rire and wheel game. But probably still depends on brand I'd assume.

I can hear the vid but cant see it, even when I download it

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

That's good they stepped up their rire and wheel game. But probably still depends on brand I'd assume.

I can hear the vid but cant see it, even when I download it

Thats what I get for uploading it from my phone directly. Here are a couple pics.

The Kayo brand seems about at the top of the China food chain. Daughter is 9 and 75 lbs for reference. For ~$2k out the door it beat buying someone’s 15 years old Polaris, Suzuki, Honda etc. for the same price.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Thats what I get for uploading it from my phone directly. Here are a couple pics.

The Kayo brand seems about at the top of the China food chain. Daughter is 9 and 75 lbs for reference.


View attachment 1044066 View attachment 1044068

Ohhh!! That is 10x better than the ol' Kazumas, Tao-Tao, ect 125s.. the e-tons where always a good quad and set up too ,for the kids bit they where a 90cc 2stroke

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Ohhh!! That is 10x better than the ol' Kazumas, Tao-Tao, ect 125s.. the e-tons where always a good quad and set up too ,for the kids bit they where a 90cc 2stroke

Yea it’s legit.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

Yea it’s legit.

The front plastics look like a cross between the Polaris Predator 90 and newer raptor 700

Looks like a solid bike!

Now I wonder if that motor is the same motor mount configuration as the Piranha or Daytona motors? now that would be a fun swap, well for the adults anyway

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

The front plastics look like a cross between the Polaris Predator 90 and newer raptor 700

Looks like a solid bike!

Now I wonder if that motor is the same motor mount configuration as the Piranha or Daytona motors? now that would be a fun swap, well for the adults anyway

This chassis could handle a little more power easily . Like I said once we checked them out, I was pretty impressed. They have a parts depot for them locally in Ontario CA as well. Ours had a small issue after we got it, I got it fixed and it has been great since.

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

This chassis could handle a little more power easily . Like I said once we checked them out, I was pretty impressed. They have a parts depot for them locally in Ontario CA as well. Ours had a small issue after we got it, I got it fixed and it has been great since.

I've been out of it for a few years, but. Check out the Piranha and Daytona motors, they are clutched 4 speeds up to 190cc, they are a blast! Would make a hell of a pit bike when your daughter is done with it.

 

[rivermobster]

All my experience is real life also. The dyno is just another tool for the end result!

I have built motors to run Pikes Peak motors for Baja and motors to run El Moreeb in UAE. All atv shit!

You musta worked in one bad azz dyno room that was able to simulate barometric pressure changes...

The only dyno I've ever seen like that was at SEMA head quarters, and of course at the AQMD Vehicle testing facility.

Very cool!

 

[JUSTWANNARACE]

You musta worked in one bad azz dyno room that was able to simulate barometric pressure changes...

The only dyno I've ever seen like that was at SEMA head quarters, and of course at the AQMD Vehicle testing facility.

Very cool!

no. Nothing like that by no means.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

450r with a couple grand in parts from lone star is the ticket. Extended a arms is a must no matter what you buy.

Of the bikes you mentioned the 250r is my favorite for riding. Get a banshee if you plan to sit at comp or olds all day. 250r if you want to dune.

 

[CLdrinker]

Find a banshee with a 4mm cheetah cub, +2 +1 a-arms a +4 swing arm, good shocks and be done with it. Best bike you will ever own. 90hp all day long and ride amazing.

People that say banshees handle like shit never learned to ride!! Or learned to set-up/tune a bike! Jmo

+4 swing arm? Guess you like turning like a school bus.

Yup I never learned to setup up a bike. Funny thing is I never saw anyone else going down the hill at Dumont 5th gear pinned through the whoops at the bottom hitting the lip and jumping close to 100’.
That’s on a holiday weekend where the kicker and whoops were bigger from the sand cars racing.
Bike handled like shit I tell ya...

 

[badgas]

This thread is making me want to sell my Raptor 700's and get a 250R or a 450 again.

 

[SW_GLASS]

+4 swing arm? Guess you like turning like a school bus.

Yup I never learned to setup up a bike. Funny thing is I never saw anyone else going down the hill at Dumont 5th gear pinned through the whoops at the bottom hitting the lip and jumping close to 100’.
That’s on a holiday weekend where the kicker and whoops were bigger from the sand cars racing.
Bike handled like shit I tell ya...

School Bus lol. I run a +6 swingarm on my banshee and can turn it no problem in the small dunes in glamis or tight turns. Paddles make the most difference not swingarm. Want to turn use a v paddle. The best are sand skate II from STU if you can find them as they are discontinued. want to go straight us a straight blade like haulers.

Personally if you are a good rider and know how to use the throttle you can turn anything. I run a 22 inch 7 paddle hauler on a banshee with a +6 swingarm and can slide the ass end around every dune i want. just need to know you bike and how to ride. I will say having wider arms and axle do help with stability especially on a banshee or 250r

 

[DUNERDR82]

I have a 2006 yfz450 I'm about to put on the market. Shoot me a text if your interested. 858-864-3560

 

[D19]

450r with a couple grand in parts from lone star is the ticket. Extended a arms is a must no matter what you buy.

Of the bikes you mentioned the 250r is my favorite for riding. Get a banshee if you plan to sit at comp or olds all day. 250r if you want to dune.

Thanks. Yes I like to dune. We usually have a good size group when we are out there. I want something that I can enjoy, that my wife won't hate riding and I can put a beginner on. It would be primarily used in the sand. I usually skip the dirt trips.

 

[RCDave]

Thanks. Yes I like to dune. We usually have a good size group when we are out there. I want something that I can enjoy, that my wife won't hate riding and I can put a beginner on. It would be primarily used in the sand. I usually skip the dirt trips.

View attachment 1044217

That's a tall order having one quad to this variety of riders. I'd get two if you can. A yamaha raptor 250r and a Yamaha raptor 450 EFI