Laveycraft quality

[OCMerrill]

@OCMerrill

I have a 1991 20.6 Sebring Mod V. Built in August '91...one month before the Camire family purchased the company from Al Lavey.
So a Camire boat I don't have. This boat has been sidelined for an Essex Sterling due to a rotted transom that's every bit the fault of mine.

Reason for the pic...As far as style goes I think back in 1991 this was a very original Lavey style that the Camire Brothers built a boat company on.

 

[NoOtherWay]

I always thought the two best single V bottoms for Havasu was either a 270
( straight bottom) or a 2750.

Comfort vs speed. Both get you through the afternoon chop well. Just use different methods in doing so.

 

[Melloyellovector]

25 Coles were actually known for being pretty fast back in the day.. I remember them having a pro charger kit for a 502 and it ran 96'ish mph!

RD

Was it 50lbs of boost? Lmao
One of my buddies has a Cole 250 world class with a top speed of 47mph. Pretty sure a pro charger ain’t adding 50 more mph I do like the boat regardless of speed.

And yes i like laveys, very solid and well built boats

 

[DRYHEAT]

Was it 50lbs of boost? Lmao
One of my buddies has a Cole 250 world class with a top speed of 47mph. Pretty sure a pro charger ain’t adding 50 more mph I do like the boat regardless of speed.

And yes i like laveys, very solid and well built boats

I’m not sure if you’re just messing with one of your buddies, but if that’s true I’d say he’s got some serious issues with his engine or set up.

 

[Runs2rch]

Lavey will be back for sure. Sounds like Chris is just getting his logistics sorted out.

 

[AZLineman]

Lavey and Schiada

 

[Uncle Dave]

The question was why they don’t have a stronger resale. It is because the brand is not as well known, like I stated above. I don’t think anyone will argue it’s not a quality boat. When someone is looking for a boat for sale, there aren’t many Laveycrafts out there. If someone goes to Havasu and sees all the boats with all the names on the sides, there aren’t as many Laveycrafts. If they then want to buy a boat, they are going to see a Hallett, a Nordic, a Howard, a Eliminator for sale and start there, because that is mostly what they saw out on the water.

Those people are not gonna know Lavey built a handful of larger boats, because they aren’t seen around much.

I posted a thread here a few years ago that compared new MSRP's with retained value and demonstrated that as far as I could see with nada, BUC, and (I think kelley) Lavey held as well as anyone. If I can dig it up I'll repost it as I cut and paste from a variety of sources.

Used boat value is almost always in direct proportion with condition, hours, maintenance regardless of brand.
For sure there are outliers when someone wants off something.

With the shop closed that might effect resale but as far as I know Chris is still servicing them.

Opening a boat shop in California is a very difficult environment if you want an actual AQMD permit in the window.
Some builders risk this and few clients ask, but really need to know they are at risk should something go down.
The AQMD keeps restricting what areas allow manufacturing and where you can even legally run a shop is always shrinking and you get stuck between a shop thats too small and one thats too big. The state and insurance companies rape you - and you take it dry.

For sure the name isnt as well known, and sadly many dont even pronounce it correctly, they also didnt build as many as some others.

As far as durability how many offshore seasons did the other builders run and how competitive were they if they did?
Which builders have won an offshore world championship ? Did any sweep a season? as far as I know that record still stands with Lavey.

How many build boats you can enter and compete in offshore racing right off the showroom floor and still have them last 20-30 years?

This is a double edged sword as racers get hurt, and over the years people have slapped a number on a pleasure boat and put in big mill and kill themselves.

Quality wise they are all excellent. The 2750 and up are particularly innovative with molded cockpits and superb construction with very few parts making for a strong long lasting flex free rig. The last outboard 2750 was really a great machine running low 90s's with 2 300's.

The other thing is boat length manufacturers spec sheets are laughable for the most part - including the nose and any overhand or swim step. Most of not all market the top of the boat . If Lavey makes it back they should market like everyone else and every boat will be a foot sometimes two longer overnight - telling the truth didnt help sales much.

If Chris moved the whole thing to Arizona it would be far easier to pull off. Or he could just morph to an extremely low volume builder like Schiada

I hope he can put it together so we as a group continue to have excellent choices in the future.
I was really sad when Stoker stopped even though it was competitive with my Sebring they brought quality and craftsmanship that earned its fanbase.

I really worry this industry will continue to contract and we will be left with only a few options as consumers and brothers in boats.

 

[RiverDave]

Back in the day when pontoons were still slow and cheap

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you know what sucks is not that long ago I coulda bought that boat for less than I paid for my toon..

 

[RVR2SNO]

Absolutely LOVED my 21 XCS and regret selling it. Would buy it back tomorrow if given the opportunity. That said, Lavey SUX. Stick with the others

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I posted a thread here a few years ago that compared new MSRP's with retained value and demonstrated that as far as I could see with nada, BUC, and (I think kelley) Lavey held as well as anyone. If I can dig it up I'll repost it as I cut and paste from a variety of sources.

Used boat value is almost always in direct proportion with condition, hours, maintenance regardless of brand.
For sure there are outliers when someone wants off something.

With the shop closed that might effect resale but as far as I know Chris is still servicing them.

Opening a boat shop in California is a very difficult environment if you want an actual AQMD permit in the window.
Some builders risk this and few clients ask, but really need to know they are at risk should something go down.
The AQMD keeps restricting what areas allow manufacturing and where you can even legally run a shop is always shrinking and you get stuck between a shop thats too small and one thats too big. The state and insurance companies rape you - and you take it dry.

For sure the name isnt as well known, and sadly many dont even pronounce it correctly, they also didnt build as many as some others.

As far as durability how many offshore seasons did the other builders run and how competitive were they if they did?
Which builders have won an offshore world championship ? Did any sweep a season? as far as I know that record still stands with Lavey.

How many build boats you can enter and compete in offshore racing right off the showroom floor and still have them last 20-30 years?

This is a double edged sword as racers get hurt, and over the years people have slapped a number on a pleasure boat and put in big mill and kill themselves.

Quality wise they are all excellent. The 2750 and up are particularly innovative with molded cockpits and superb construction with very few parts making for a strong long lasting flex free rig. The last outboard 2750 was really a great machine running low 90s's with 2 300's.

The other thing is boat length manufacturers spec sheets are laughable for the most part - including the nose and any overhand or swim step. Most of not all market the top of the boat . If Lavey makes it back they should market like everyone else and every boat will be a foot sometimes two longer overnight - telling the truth didnt help sales much.

If Chris moved the whole thing to Arizona it would be far easier to pull off. Or he could just morph to an extremely low volume builder like Schiada

I hope he can put it together so we as a group continue to have excellent choices in the future.
I was really sad when Stoker stopped even though it was competitive with my Sebring they brought quality and craftsmanship that earned its fanbase.

I really worry this industry will continue to contract and we will be left with only a few options as consumers and brothers in boats.

To your point I think they have held their value against the purchase price. You would know better than I but I dont think their “as new” prices had accelerated as aggressively as other brands. A Howard for instance has gone up over $60k just in the last few years. This pulls the resale up of the older ones.

This is taking nothing away from the quality. Again they are probably one of the best kept secrets in custom boats.

 

[WTR&PWR]

Thank you everyone for the Info. I love my eliminator but it’s going to be time to upgrade to a deck boat soon and the fun decks are out of my price range. I am starting to really look at the party prowlers and digging them. Glad to know it seems the RDP folks are actually in agreement on this one.

 

[Uncle Dave]

To your point I think they have held their value against the purchase price. You would know better than I but I dont think their “as new” prices had accelerated as aggressively as other brands. A Howard for instance has gone up over $60k just in the last few years. This pulls the resale up of the older ones.

This is taking nothing away from the quality. Again they are probably one of the best kept secrets in custom boats.

This is good discussion (as always with you). This is a highly nuanced thing.

I participated in a few deals over the last 20 years with the Brothers and I saw both sides of the paperwork (clients turn it all over gladly ) and I cant recall Lavey ever winning by beating someones price for a X foot boat. Lots of cheaper ways to build product.

The product is extremely expensive to build.

I remember one time Chris called me over to look at a couple of pallets of cheap glass and resin showed up at the wrong boat manufacturer...the other builder supposedly used premium components.

Many clients at other places been sold sold vacuumed bagged boats that weren't - or at least the builds they posted here never showed the process nor could the requisite gear be spotted in the publicly available shop pictures.

Most deals I saw all grew in scope after the order - short tabs became long tabs, External steering, ITS, fiberglass seatbacks, custom fitted bigger tank, customize entry (hard glasswork) Everything takes too long, but everyone is utterly thrilled on delivery.

Lavey seem to miss the "your first nice boat" sale, but picks up clients as a second boat and by then they usually know exactly whet they want because they've been around one. Ocean guys were Lavey staple for decades.

Sadly, I would wager that if you see a new one for sale again you'll find it discouragingly expensive.

 

[Ultra912]

My Shockwave deserves some notoriety, also a well built SoCal custom tank in the chop

 

[LazyLavey]

Not Stylish??? I take offense to that comment!
Sure, It's not a deck or a cat but as stylish as any other V out there and 21 years old
That goes for all their other hull designs as well
l

 

[RiverDave]

Was it 50lbs of boost? Lmao
One of my buddies has a Cole 250 world class with a top speed of 47mph. Pretty sure a pro charger ain’t adding 50 more mph I do like the boat regardless of speed.

And yes i like laveys, very solid and well built boats

There is something grossly wrong with your buddies boat.. lol

 

[NicPaus]

There is something grossly wrong with your buddies boat.. lol

Yep the original buyer was cheap and went with a 350 instead of the 500. It was only a 40k difference in price .

 

[lavey jr]

Lavey 28 vee is unmatched.

the 28 Evo is actually one of my favorite looking boats! Love that boat and it was waaayyy ahead of its time.

RD

It’s also one of the most efficient 28’ single engine deep V bottoms ever made.
This 28 EVO ran 106.4 MPH with an Ilmor 710. The efficiency numbers speak for themselves.

 

[Mandelon]

I think Lavey "missed the boat," if you will please pardon my pun. As the deck boats became popular, Lavey was slow to get on board. ( Another baoating pun!) and eventually put out the gigantic Party Prowler. It earned the term "The Laveycraft Carrier" around here. Just like Hallet missed the mark on their first attempt at a deck boat, the Prowler just didn't have the style it needed. Personally, I think they should have stretched the 27 Sabre and retooled the deck. More along the sexier lines of Conquest's Top Cat and Top Cat II.

Howard scored a hit with their deck boat and immediately sold as many as they could make. On the other side, Eliminator started off weakly in the deck boat market, but figured it out later on. Conquest and Magic obviously nailed the deck design and ran away with the market...at least for a while.

 

[FROGMAN524]

I think Lavey "missed the boat," if you will please pardon my pun. As the deck boats became popular, Lavey was slow to get on board. ( Another baoating pun!) and eventually put out the gigantic Party Prowler. It earned the term "The Laveycraft Carrier" around here. Just like Hallet missed the mark on their first attempt at a deck boat, the Prowler just didn't have the style it needed. Personally, I think they should have stretched the 27 Sabre and retooled the deck. More along the sexier lines of Conquest's Top Cat and Top Cat II.

Howard scored a hit with their deck boat and immediately sold as many as they could make. On the other side, Eliminator started off weakly in the deck boat market, but figured it out later on. Conquest and Magic obviously nailed the deck design and ran away with the market...at least for a while.

I feel like anymore it’s hard to sell anything but deck boats and OB/Twin OB cats. Hallett is not selling a lot of Vs and neither is Nordic. Look at Eliminator, they completely scrapped the Eagle line. They should probably just rename the company Speedster powerboats.


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[DRYHEAT]

I think Lavey "missed the boat," if you will please pardon my pun. As the deck boats became popular, Lavey was slow to get on board. ( Another baoating pun!) and eventually put out the gigantic Party Prowler. It earned the term "The Laveycraft Carrier" around here. Just like Hallet missed the mark on their first attempt at a deck boat, the Prowler just didn't have the style it needed. Personally, I think they should have stretched the 27 Sabre and retooled the deck. More along the sexier lines of Conquest's Top Cat and Top Cat II.

Howard scored a hit with their deck boat and immediately sold as many as they could make. On the other side, Eliminator started off weakly in the deck boat market, but figured it out later on. Conquest and Magic obviously nailed the deck design and ran away with the market...at least for a while.

Timing and evolution. Remember the original advantage with canvas sides and the original magic that looked like a giant fiberglass pontoon.

 

[DWC]

I don’t know how any boat manufacturer makes money especially in California. I’m not sure what the bigger shops have to do in sales just to cover occupancy and overhead but it’s gotta be staggering. The surviving builders have evolved and found their niche. Sold off or discontinued models and moved one. Most seem to offset slower times with service, repairs, interiors with some merch thrown in.
I was hoping the addition of the RPM helped Lavey but the builds just seemed to drag on with no results or marketing.

 

[Riverhound]

25 Coles were actually known for being pretty fast back in the day.. I remember them having a pro charger kit for a 502 and it ran 96'ish mph!

RD

Most of that was typical Jim Cole hype. Great built boats but they take a cubic shit ton of HP to do anything special. I’ve owned 2 Cole’s, my last one had a vortec supercharged 540 in it that would would barley get into the 80’s.

Talk with Alexi, he’s probably built, rigged or worked on more Cole’s then most and he’ll tell you the same.

 

[90 Laveycraft]

 

[90 Laveycraft]

5th boat, Solid as a rock, never let me down...

Ski rope tow hook sucks...not supported and cracked glass to hell.
Duel 10 gallon tanks...to small...

 

[Bajastu]

I have a buddy with a 26’ and the whole floor needed to be cut out to replace the rotting fuel tank due to standing water in the belly and the forward ski locker. It’s a known issue that Laveycraft admitted to. As soon as he mentioned the fuel smell to Laveycraft, they knew exactly what the issue was. No matter what steep angle you could park the boat at, water could never fully drain from the belly. Workmanship and design under the floor was sub par for sure. It cost a pretty penny to replace this design flaw. Other than that it rides nice and performs well in the chop.

 

[OldSchoolBoats]

I would put a 27 Lavey on the top of my list for a new boat. They don't resale very well though. Never understood why. They are built very well.

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[LargeOrangeFont]

This is good discussion (as always with you). This is a highly nuanced thing.

I participated in a few deals over the last 20 years with the Brothers and I saw both sides of the paperwork (clients turn it all over gladly ) and I cant recall Lavey ever winning by beating someones price for a X foot boat. Lots of cheaper ways to build product.

The product is extremely expensive to build.

I remember one time Chris called me over to look at a couple of pallets of cheap glass and resin showed up at the wrong boat manufacturer...the other builder supposedly used premium components.

Many clients at other places been sold sold vacuumed bagged boats that weren't - or at least the builds they posted here never showed the process nor could the requisite gear be spotted in the publicly available shop pictures.

Most deals I saw all grew in scope after the order - short tabs became long tabs, External steering, ITS, fiberglass seatbacks, custom fitted bigger tank, customize entry (hard glasswork) Everything takes too long, but everyone is utterly thrilled on delivery.

Lavey seem to miss the "your first nice boat" sale, but picks up clients as a second boat and by then they usually know exactly whet they want because they've been around one. Ocean guys were Lavey staple for decades.

Sadly, I would wager that if you see a new one for sale again you'll find it discouragingly expensive.

Great points as usual UD and I think you packaged my thoughts better than I was able to. Laveycrafts are a lot of people’s 2nd boat, after they find out what that dislike with their first boat. They literally have raving fans and a great product.

Honestly I kinda put them in the same “group” if you will as Cobra and Essex. I’m not debating which one is better, but it’s that group of boat MFGs that make quality boats but they just aren’t the popular brands you see everywhere every weekend.

 

[LazyLavey]

I think Lavey "missed the boat," if you will please pardon my pun. As the deck boats became popular, Lavey was slow to get on board. ( Another baoating pun!) and eventually put out the gigantic Party Prowler. It earned the term "The Laveycraft Carrier" around here. Just like Hallet missed the mark on their first attempt at a deck boat, the Prowler just didn't have the style it needed. Personally, I think they should have stretched the 27 Sabre and retooled the deck. More along the sexier lines of Conquest's Top Cat and Top Cat II.

Howard scored a hit with their deck boat and immediately sold as many as they could make. On the other side, Eliminator started off weakly in the deck boat market, but figured it out later on. Conquest and Magic obviously nailed the deck design and ran away with the market...at least for a while.

good point.. I agree......the prowler was pretty funky

 

[RCDave]

Great points as usual UD and I think you packaged my thoughts better than I was able to. Laveycrafts are a lot of people’s 2nd boat, after they find out what that dislike with their first boat. They literally have raving fans and a great product.

Honestly I kinda put them in the same “group” if you will as Cobra and Essex. I’m not debating which one is better, but it’s that group of boat MFGs that make quality boats but they just aren’t the popular brands you see everywhere every weekend.

Lavey is a few steps up the chain versus Cobra and Essex. Imo. I spent many weekends at laveys shop. And rode and drove many of the models.

Lavey was top notch in every respect. Imo

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Lavey is a few steps up the chain versus Cobra and Essex. Imo. I spent many weekends at laveys shop. And rode and drove many of the models.

Lavey was top notch in every respect. Imo

I would agree from a construction perspective on the smaller boats. I was speaking more from a name recognition perspective.

 

[CobraDave]

The question is where are the molds and could a Lavey still be built today?


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[RadHazard]

We loved our Lavey…

 

[Flying_Lavey]

5th boat, Solid as a rock, never let me down...

Ski rope tow hook sucks...not supported and cracked glass to hell.
Duel 10 gallon tanks...to small...

Yup... I love my little interceptor. Runs in the rough like a much larger boat once I put the tabs on (closed bow with the outboard set 10" back doesn't have enough weight up front to cut through much).

I do wish it had bigger tanks though. Although I can squeeze 12 gallons into each side from bone dry. If I ever have the money to redo some stuff on it, I'd like to look into getting longer tanks to maybe get it to 15 gallons each.

The question is where are the molds and could a Lavey still be built today?


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Chris still owns the company and the molds.

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[Riley1]

We love ours. Handles Mohave and Mead great. It likes to be driven. 55+ and it starts feeling light and agile. I’ve never had a boat with equal power pull away from me.

 

[PlanB]

Had a guy is a small Lavey run with me from Oceanside to Catalina and back. That’s over 110 miles round trip, and I was in our 38’ Top Gun. The lavey obviously got hammered compared to my Gun, but it ran very well out in the big blue. It’s been a while, and I don’t remember the guys name, but he ended up racing a Lavey not long after that. Lavey built a damn good boat IMO…

 

[Melloyellovector]

There is something grossly wrong with your buddies boat.. lol

Well his “speedo” shows I believe close to 70. My gps running parallel with him in my vector, says my toon will beat him. LMAO! I will say I don’t think he has 502 I believe it’s 454 non mag. Open bow. And a tank. Iv never driven it so can’t say if it has more speed avail. He did buy one of my motors for vector AJ has and will eventually drop in it, lol

 

[lavey jr]

Had a guy is a small Lavey run with me from Oceanside to Catalina and back. That’s over 110 miles round trip, and I was in our 38’ Top Gun. The lavey obviously got hammered compared to my Gun, but it ran very well out in the big blue. It’s been a while, and I don’t remember the guys name, but he ended up racing a Lavey not long after that. Lavey built a damn good boat IMO…

Was it this boat?
It’s a 24 NuEra MCOB that the guy raced offshore in and did a lot of his boating in the ocean. There was actually two 24 NuEra’s both MCOB boats that raced, one guy was Brian Devlin and I can’t remember the other guy.
Then there’s Brad Stern in his 21 XCS with a Merc 400r that does the Catalina ski race and also has won the Parker Enduro.

 

[PlanB]

Was it this boat?
It’s a 24 NuEra MCOB that the guy raced offshore in and did a lot of his boating in the ocean. There was actually two 24 NuEra’s both MCOB boats that raced, one guy was Brian Devlin and I can’t remember the other guy.
Then there’s Brad Stern in his 21 XCS with a Merc 400r that does the Catalina ski race and also has won the Parker Enduro.

View attachment 1024113 View attachment 1024114

It was Brian Devlin.

 

[franky]

Most of that was typical Jim Cole hype. Great built boats but they take a cubic shit ton of HP to do anything special. I’ve owned 2 Cole’s, my last one had a vortec supercharged 540 in it that would would barley get into the 80’s.

Talk with Alexi, he’s probably built, rigged or worked on more Cole’s then most and he’ll tell you the same.

I have had a lot better experience than you with the Coles that I have and have had....on my 3rd and 4th now.

 

[Mandelon]

Had a guy is a small Lavey run with me from Oceanside to Catalina and back. That’s over 110 miles round trip, and I was in our 38’ Top Gun. The lavey obviously got hammered compared to my Gun, but it ran very well out in the big blue. It’s been a while, and I don’t remember the guys name, but he ended up racing a Lavey not long after that. Lavey built a damn good boat IMO…

Brian has moved to Idaho, I think. We used to work at the same bank years ago.

 

[schweeng]

I've had many Laveys.... Many of them went to the ocean often and none of them cracked or broke. Best west coast V made for all around boating....

 

[riverbrian]

good point.. I agree......the prowler was pretty funky

What kind of boat do you have so I can talk shit on it ?

 

[evantwheeler]

I think Lavey "missed the boat," if you will please pardon my pun. As the deck boats became popular, Lavey was slow to get on board. ( Another baoating pun!) and eventually put out the gigantic Party Prowler. It earned the term "The Laveycraft Carrier" around here. Just like Hallet missed the mark on their first attempt at a deck boat, the Prowler just didn't have the style it needed. Personally, I think they should have stretched the 27 Sabre and retooled the deck. More along the sexier lines of Conquest's Top Cat and Top Cat II.

Howard scored a hit with their deck boat and immediately sold as many as they could make. On the other side, Eliminator started off weakly in the deck boat market, but figured it out later on. Conquest and Magic obviously nailed the deck design and ran away with the market...at least for a while.

My boss has a party prowler and it is such a solid boat, I would own one in a heartbeat. Does just fine with a 525 in it and you could literally store a house worth of crap in those things, there is so much room in them. It feels pretty damn heavy and won't win any races, but I think 2FF said it once, the only person who likes hauling serious ass in a deck boat is the driver.

I'd love to own a 21 or 24 Lavey v-hull someday when prices come back to earth....the 21's seem to have a lot more room in them than my current 23XS Ultra, and I absolutely hate not having a molded in swim step.

 

[LazyLavey]

What kind of boat do you have so I can talk shit on it ?

you're adorable

 

[Bigbore500r]

Yep the original buyer was cheap and went with a 350 instead of the 500. It was only a 40k difference in price .

6.2?

 

[Bigbore500r]

I really like the smaller laveys, I can't remember which model 21' it was but it was tall with a healthy deadrise angle and quite a bit of freeboard. Looked like it could slice thru the water pretty well.

*Edit* - Saw a pic posted above, it is a 21 XTSki

 

[boatnam2]

I had a lavey party prowler built with a teague 620, i didn't think it was even close to the best looking deck boat around but at the time there weren't many to choose from and thing rode so solid. I rode in a magic twice on test rides at Havasu and just couldn't get past the rattles and flex it had in mid afternoon chop. Conquest didn't want to test ride in wind that day i was there so i went with the LAVEY. Looking back i wish i would of bought 2 magic's as they soon became the boat of Havasu and now are the new lake bitcoin.

 

[Gelcoater]

View attachment 1023738

Lavey provided a bit of factory support, but a few privateers raced a custom 2750 off shore for a few years, and did quite well. I am not aware of any other West Coast boats that did that. They are built tough for sure.

That open cockpit 2750 set Kilo records of 90+mph with a single Merc Racing 525, sealed engine.
And as far as I can remember it was laid up the same as any other 2750.

Kevin had 2 hatches for that program.
A race hatch that covered the entire rear bench and cockpit, and had a ducted air intake straight to the air cleaner, and a recreational hatch, a standard engine hatch that rendered the back seat and cockpit useable as a pleasure boat.

 

[Albert]

Still love my ol girl

 

[riverbrian]

you're adorable

Not cool to dump on anyones boat I say.

Keep your adorable.