Just closed a deal on an F34

[JRS1939]

It's yore or you're...

bote.

 

[JRider]

get a straight edge up under either side sponson to check the 'step position' relative to the 'notch' (last riding surface of the sponson) .

The 33' Daytonas had all the steps 'in the same plane' as the notch . This is WRONG and must be changed . The trailing edge of the second 'step' must be moved towards the transom, in order to provide 'transition' from 'full wet' to 'flying high' . If they are all 'in the same plane' the surfaces will react as 'full wet' or 'wallow' at any speeds below top speeds (trimmed up). This design problem also promotes 'outside chine drop', or 'gallop on turns on chop' .

These boats with Bravos have little 'leverage' behind the transom, and they easily RIDE on the strakes of the 'second step' . However, when #6's, trans and big motors are fitted, the entire 'balance, riding and lifting planes' change and move to the rear . Where and at what angle you push the hull (mass) does matter, and these boats are a perfect example of that statement .

My buddy had tried a number of different 'tunnel tabs', and 'drive wings/plates', and the best he ever got was 'ridiculously unsafe', especially in the 81 to 86 MPH range . That's just where the center pod wanted to 'bounce' in and out of the water .

We made measurements of the original design and then I made a diagram with measurements to correct the problems . He fought with the maker for a few months, but finally they agreed to do 'his fixes' .

They extended the 'second step' to the rear 6", this created a 'transition' from 'wet to flying' . Had them CLOSE all the air vents in the keels . The tunnels in these hulls have little usable reduction, and minimal compression, so why 'vent' any of it ?

They built up 4" wide strakes from the transom all the way forward to the step, in line with the existing strakes ahead of them . These changes alone, cured all the control and trim issues, but after testing he wanted MORE SPEED.

He then took the boat over to a local glass shop and had the 'tunnels reduced' . At the transom the tunnels now look like 'half circles', as in the top corners are 'filled in' all the way forward, to compress the airflow more .

I had drawn up plans for a new 'tunnel tab system', but when I told him "they must have side curtains to work", he didn't go forward . Any 'tunnel tab' that actually WORKS, will spill air/pressure out the sides, into the 'notches' . This puts that pressurized air directly onto the PROPS, and so they must have side curtains .

If your boat has 'similar design features', and any of these posts don't make sense, just ask . My buddy with the 33' lives in Havasu, if you need to speak with him .

I would assume compression is lost out the notches below the transom, would there be any advantage to adding "curtains" there?

 

[j-bone]

I would assume compression is lost out the notches below the transom, would there be any advantage to adding "curtains" there?

Not an expert, but I prefer roman blinds.

 

[milkmoney]

Not an expert, but I prefer roman blinds.

Or wood shutters [emoji12]

 

[RogerThat99]

Any day that ends with Y and any hour on the clock!

The newest one I heard was: I only drink on days that start with "T"...Tuesday, Thursday, Today, & Tomorrow.

 

[575cat]

Jrider I bet your glad you started this thread , you wont do it again ha ha .

 

[JRider]

Jrider I bet your glad you started this thread , you wont do it again ha ha .

Some potentially valuable information was posted by Azgeo...so it was worth it. I have been called moron, village idiot, a know it all yada yada...good times. All by these guys who like to give each other the reach around and give "likes" to each others juvenile posts. It really hurts me when they make fun of my boat.:rolleyes

So yeah, I should fit right in (except for the reach around part)

 

[Blown Lavey]

Some potentially valuable information was posted by Azgeo...so it was worth it. I have been called moron, village idiot, a know it all yada yada...good times. All by these guys who like to give each other the reach around and give "likes" to each others juvenile posts. It really hurts me when they make fun of my boat.:rolleyes

So yeah, I should fit right in (except for the reach around part)

It's about the truth, lots BS in here. One thing I will say is there are some good members here from the old HB days, but it gets old reading all the same old BS. I know Dave tries to get a handle on it when it gets ugly, unfortunately you can only do so much with people that have nothing better to do, and a keyboard in front of them.

 

[DaBank]

I read the first 6 pages and don't have time at this moment to read the rest. I always liked how these boats looked. Are they based off another hull, and if so did that hull have any problems? I know DCB stopped making them but why? Because how they rode and if so why did DCB not correct the problem? Seems like a lot of money wasted by not addressing the problem? Anything can be fix or made better and if we likes this boat and is willing to correct it I think that is awesome to have kind of a one of a kind boat? Last question what has DCB said over the years to correct this hull? Or have they been silent and if so that would be a hard pill to shallow if you where one that bought it new. Frank

 

[JD D05]

Some potentially valuable information was posted by Azgeo...so it was worth it. I have been called moron, village idiot, a know it all yada yada...good times. All by these guys who like to give each other the reach around and give "likes" to each others juvenile posts. It really hurts me when they make fun of my boat.:rolleyes

So yeah, I should fit right in (except for the reach around part)

I would like to see a new thread dedicated to your progress and adjustments. Good luck!

 

[JRider]

I would like to see a new thread dedicated to your progress and adjustments. Good luck!

I did not know that this was going to be any kind of a technical thread, otherwise I would have posted in the tech section. At this point I do not know if it needs any work as I have not driven it.

 

[Member: 71]

Some potentially valuable information was posted by Azgeo...so it was worth it. I have been called moron, village idiot, a know it all yada yada...good times. All by these guys who like to give each other the reach around and give "likes" to each others juvenile posts. It really hurts me when they make fun of my boat.:rolleyes

So yeah, I should fit right in (except for the reach around part)

I say you've been a good sport, 27 pages of boating content and you're still here after all the insults.:thumbup: Welcome to RDP. Dave should be sending you a hat and a T-shirt.

Congrats on the boat!

 

[BHC Vic]

I did not know that this was going to be any kind of a technical thread, otherwise I would have posted in the tech section. At this point I do not know if it needs any work as I have not driven it.

I think the tech section is for the magic box [emoji3]

 

[JRider]

I read the first 6 pages and don't have time at this moment to read the rest. I always liked how these boats looked. Are they based off another hull, and if so did that hull have any problems? I know DCB stopped making them but why? Because how they rode and if so why did DCB not correct the problem? Seems like a lot of money wasted by not addressing the problem? Anything can be fix or made better and if we likes this boat and is willing to correct it I think that is awesome to have kind of a one of a kind boat? Last question what has DCB said over the years to correct this hull? Or have they been silent and if so that would be a hard pill to shallow if you where one that bought it new. Frank

I am not sure what they are based off of, although most molds are derived from existing boats/plugs in some degree or form. The F34 was a deviation from the center pod type west coast boats, although mine does have a pod but it is maybe 3.5". Only 12 to 14 were built according to Dave H, I think that number might be high, so there could be 10 left in service. I think that number is closer to 6 or 7. I know of 3 that are on trailers with no power or drives. DCB did make changes sometime 2002 and also supposedly updated existing hulls. My particular hull was the replacement boat for an ill early 34, so I am assuming it is better...the original owner said it was much better than the one it replaced.

BTW they were built from 2001 to 2006

 

[JD D05]

I did not know that this was going to be any kind of a technical thread, otherwise I would have posted in the tech section. At this point I do not know if it needs any work as I have not driven it.

Right on. I recently purchased a boat and did not get enough seat time in before the cold...I am in Utah though. DS can't come soon enough.

 

[DaBank]

I am not sure what they are based off of, although most molds are derived from existing boats/plugs in some degree or form. The F34 was a deviation from the center pod type west coast boats, although mine does have a pod but it is maybe 3.5". Only 12 to 14 were built according to Dave H. so there might be 10 left in existence. DCB did make changes in late 2002 and also supposedly updated existing hulls. My particular hull was the replacement boat for an ill early 34, so I am assuming it is better...the original owner said it was much better than the one it replaced.

Please keep us that are turly interested on how this replacement hull handles and if and want you do to make it better. Have you ask Dave H. What his input is? Frank

 

[JRider]

Please keep us that are turly interested on how this replacement hull handles and if and want you do to make it better. Have you ask Dave H. What his input is? Frank

I did get ahold of Dave H, he said email him some pics and he would fill me in on the what was done to that hull. Well, never heard back from him. I talked to tony and he did not have much to say.

 

[JRider]

Right on. I recently purchased a boat and did not get enough seat time in before the cold...I am in Utah though. DS can't come soon enough.

Supposedly going to snow 4" or 6" in chicago saturday...that is where I pick the boat up next week.

Then I have to immediately winterize it.

 

[RiverDave]

Some potentially valuable information was posted by Azgeo...so it was worth it. I have been called moron, village idiot, a know it all yada yada...good times. All by these guys who like to give each other the reach around and give "likes" to each others juvenile posts. It really hurts me when they make fun of my boat.:rolleyes

So yeah, I should fit right in (except for the reach around part)

Well in their defense you did get a little cross with a couple of guys offering you some input based upon experience before that.

I would like to see a new thread dedicated to your progress and adjustments. Good luck!

x2

 

[JRider]

Well in their defense you did get a little cross with a couple of guys offering you some input based upon experience before that.



x2

In my defense I was 6 or 8 beers deep...3 hours later here

 

[RiverDave]

It's about the truth, lots BS in here. One thing I will say is there are some good members here from the old HB days, but it gets old reading all the same old BS. I know Dave tries to get a handle on it when it gets ugly, unfortunately you can only do so much with people that have nothing better to do, and a keyboard in front of them.

I do wish the threadcrappers would stick to the non technical threads.. If I banned every single person that ever jacked a thread though I'd have to ban everyone including myself. But you are right some of it gets old.. I could clip 10+ pages out of this thread, and it would be for the better.

RD

 

[Tommy Gun Images]

In my defense I was 6 or 8 beers deep...3 hours later here

Pretty much everyone here knows how that goes [emoji16].

 

[JRider]

Observe the difference in steps and length of the last step to the transom

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Observe the difference in steps and length of the last step to the transom

View attachment 448461
View attachment 448462

From what I see, using the trailer as the reference, the distance appears to be the same. I can see there is a difference in the notches themselves but the location appears to be extremely similar in those pics. At least what it looks like on my phone and the frame of reference I can see.

 

[JRider]

From what I see, using the trailer as the reference, the distance appears to be the same. I can see there is a difference in the notches themselves but the location appears to be extremely similar in those pics. At least what it looks like on my phone and the frame of reference I can see.

Go vertical to the back of the canopy

 

[RiverDave]

In my defense I was 6 or 8 beers deep...3 hours later here

I was hopped up on NyQuil, airborne and some other shit when I was talking about geezer meth.. Lol.

 

[460]

You can never have to much threadcrapping.

 

[Nord]

I'm seeing a difference. It looks mine the boat in tip has one more step than the boat on the bottom. Also the bot in the bottom does look like there is more distance between the last step and transom.

 

[JRider]

I'm seeing a difference. It looks mine the boat in tip has one more step than the boat on the bottom. Also the bot in the bottom does look like there is more distance between the last step and transom.

Also look at the feature line directly above the notch on the corner. My boat it is 1.5", the top boat is 4" or more...that is the difference in tunnel depth.

 

[BHC Vic]

Pretty much everyone here knows how that goes [emoji16].

Not me [emoji3] I actually hate that excuse now [emoji106]🏽

 

[Tommy Gun Images]

Not me [emoji3] I actually hate that excuse now [emoji106]

You don't need that excuse...

 

[Flying_Lavey]

Go vertical to the back of the canopy

I'm not seeing it. To me the possible distance difference appears to be more attributed to the angle that the pics are shot at. They are both slightly different angles. I will take your word for it though and I absolutely can see a visual difference in the size and shape of the steps between them.

 

[bocco]

So after finally making it to the end of this thread I only have one question. Doesn't Dave or somebody from DCB test drive these boats before they decide to go into production. Seems like they should have test driven the first one out of the mold and said "shit we can't sell this until we make it right.

I have this same gripe with Eliminator. I had a 1981 sport cruiser V-drive. Pretty stock power. Top speed was 60mph. Right at 60 the boat would start to lean to the left. The only way to stop it was to lift off the pedal. I've read that with bigger power it gets even more fun. Lots threads in the V-drive sections about this boat. Some guys have finally worked out the solution but I keep thinking that Eliminator should have seen and fixed this problem before they ever delivered one to a customer. Or, since it was rigged by Connelly maybe they were responsible.

 

[blacksockdown]

So after finally making it to the end of this thread I only have one question. Doesn't Dave or somebody from DCB test drive these boats before they decide to go into production. Seems like they should have test driven the first one out of the mold and said "shit we can't sell this until we make it right.

I have this same gripe with Eliminator. I had a 1981 sport cruiser V-drive. Pretty stock power. Top speed was 60mph. Right at 60 the boat would start to lean to the left. The only way to stop it was to lift off the pedal. I've read that with bigger power it gets even more fun. Lots threads in the V-drive sections about this boat. Some guys have finally worked out the solution but I keep thinking that Eliminator should have seen and fixed this problem before they ever delivered one to a customer. Or, since it was rigged by Connelly maybe they were responsible.

I had the same thought.I couldnt blv what i was reading of RDs opinion on the 34 in a thread awhile back.(handling like shit) Dude has to be one of their biggest fans.How was the handling situation never fixed? Yet they still continued to build them? Help me here..

 

[AzGeo]

Observe the difference in steps and length of the last step to the transom

View attachment 448461
View attachment 448462

The top boat has a deep first step, and it appears to have such a small second step (or two), that it will do nothing .

The lower boat has 'more equally sized 1st and 2nd steps, but the rear of the sponsons have 'rocker' in them .

'Rocker' makes no lift, it only allows the boat (if balanced correctly) to ride 'harder' on the tail . (at high speeds)

With no strakes under the rear of the hull, how does anyone expect to 'lift' 3800+ lbs of motors, drives and trans, 'up off' of the little center pod? Now also consider the #6 'leverage point', on the boat (gross mass) .

As to your question about 'curtains along side the notches', YES, they will help IF you get the boat to pack some air, they hold very little naturally . I'm calling the 'notch' under the transom 'the notch', and yes the 'air vents' at all the steps should be closed too .

Mr. Bocco, your thoughts on 'finished products' are the same as mine, everything should operate correctly at ALL SPEEDS when I sold you a 'turn key boat' . Some people don't operate that way, sorry you had to learn 'the expensive way' .

Your Eliminator 20.5 Sport Cruiser also has a problem when fitted with a V-drive and moderate to big power . A few of them were built with 'delta pad insert', in the mold, it helped, but never really cured the actual problem .

The problem is that the 'two center strakes' are too far apart, or too far up from the keel line . The 22'/23' Dana suffers from this same problem, mainly because that's where the front half of the bottom came from .

Hull needs another set of strakes between the keel and the original first strake . This would cure the 'lift and roll over' problem, and probably give the boat another 15 to 40 MPH depending on power .

Building the FIRST of any boat always includes plenty of R&D, by the manufacturer or the guy who buys the hull and rigs it himself . A 'proven hull' with jet or Bravo becomes 'a one off prototype' when you install a V-drive or some #6's . I've been told on this site; "if going fast were easy, everyone would be doing it" . I agree .

Every boat I sold 'turn key' got a full demo ride, multiple prop testing, verified speeds, and NEW DRIVER CHECK OUT, maintenence list, before I took anyone's money . I suggest it's a good safe way to do business .

You'll see when I start building boats again .

 

[460]

So after finally making it to the end of this thread I only have one question. Doesn't Dave or somebody from DCB test drive these boats before they decide to go into production. Seems like they should have test driven the first one out of the mold and said "shit we can't sell this until we make it right.

I have this same gripe with Eliminator. I had a 1981 sport cruiser V-drive. Pretty stock power. Top speed was 60mph. Right at 60 the boat would start to lean to the left. The only way to stop it was to lift off the pedal. I've read that with bigger power it gets even more fun. Lots threads in the V-drive sections about this boat. Some guys have finally worked out the solution but I keep thinking that Eliminator should have seen and fixed this problem before they ever delivered one to a customer. Or, since it was rigged by Connelly maybe they were responsible.

I was told my sport cruiser had big power in it at one point. It was to weird on the big end so they put stock power in it after that. Not the first time I've heard that.

 

[Cole Trickle]

I was told my sport cruiser had big power in it at one point. It was to weird on the big end so they put stock power in it after that. Not the first time I've heard that.

Yeah I heard they get spooky above 50 mph. Luckily you will never have to worry about that[emoji85][emoji41][emoji14]

 

[plaster dave]

The top boat has a deep first step, and it appears to have such a small second step, that it will do nothing .

The lower boat has 'more equally sized 1st and 2nd steps, but the rear of the sponsons have 'rocker' in them .

'Rocker' makes no lift, it only allows the boat (if balanced correctly) to ride 'harder' on the tail . (at high speeds)

With no strakes under the rear of the hull, how does anyone expect to 'lift' 3800+ lbs of motors, drives and trans, 'up off' of the little center pod? Now also consider the #6 'leverage point', on the boat (gross mass) .

As to your question about 'curtains along side the notches', YES, they will help IF you get the boat to pack some air, they hold very little naturally . I'm calling the 'notch' under the transom 'the notch', and yes the 'air vents' at all the steps should be closed too .

Mr. Bocco, your thoughts on 'finished products' are the same as mine, everything should operate correctly at ALL SPEEDS when I sold you a 'turn key boat' . Some people don't operate that way, sorry you had to learn 'the expensive way' .

Your Eliminator 20.5 Sport Cruiser also has a problem when fitted with a V-drive and moderate to big power . A few of them were built with 'delta pad insert', in the mold, it helped, but never really cured the actual problem .

The problem is that the 'two center strakes' are too far apart, or too far up from the keel line . The 22'/23' Dana suffers from this same problem, mainly because that's where the front half of the bottom came from .

Hull needs another set of strakes between the keel and the original first strake . This would cure the 'lift and roll over' problem, and probably give the boat another 15 to 40 MPH depending on power .

Building the FIRST of any boat always includes plenty of R&D, by the manufacturer or the guy who buys the hull and rigs it himself . A 'proven hull' with jet or Bravo becomes 'a one off prototype' when you install a V-drive or some #6's . I've been told on this site; "if going fast were easy, everyone would be doing it" . I agree .

Every boat I sold 'turn key' got a full demo ride, multiple prop testing, verified speeds, and NEW DRIVER CHECK OUT, maintenence list, before I took anyone's money . I suggest it's a good safe way to do business .

You'll see when I start building boats again .

This is really cool of you to post up so the op and all of us could get an understanding of bottom designs. [emoji106]🏻[emoji106]🏻

 

[Skinny Tire AH]

:lmao:lmao

Yeah I heard they get spooky above 50 mph. Luckily you will never have to worry about that[emoji85][emoji41][emoji14]

 

[460]

Yeah I heard they get spooky above 50 mph. Luckily you will never have to worry about that[emoji85][emoji41][emoji14]

55 set on kill all day.

 

[460]

:lmao:lmao

No one asked you lol.

 

[Cole Trickle]

55 set on kill all day.

Cheetah water pick up speedo?

 

[Shortdeck]

The top boat has a deep first step, and it appears to have such a small second step, that it will do nothing .

The lower boat has 'more equally sized 1st and 2nd steps, but the rear of the sponsons have 'rocker' in them .

'Rocker' makes no lift, it only allows the boat (if balanced correctly) to ride 'harder' on the tail . (at high speeds)

With no strakes under the rear of the hull, how does anyone expect to 'lift' 3800+ lbs of motors, drives and trans, 'up off' of the little center pod? Now also consider the #6 'leverage point', on the boat (gross mass) .

As to your question about 'curtains along side the notches', YES, they will help IF you get the boat to pack some air, they hold very little naturally . I'm calling the 'notch' under the transom 'the notch', and yes the 'air vents' at all the steps should be closed too .

Mr. Bocco, your thoughts on 'finished products' are the same as mine, everything should operate correctly at ALL SPEEDS when I sold you a 'turn key boat' . Some people don't operate that way, sorry you had to learn 'the expensive way' .

Your Eliminator 20.5 Sport Cruiser also has a problem when fitted with a V-drive and moderate to big power . A few of them were built with 'delta pad insert', in the mold, it helped, but never really cured the actual problem .

The problem is that the 'two center strakes' are too far apart, or too far up from the keel line . The 22'/23' Dana suffers from this same problem, mainly because that's where the front half of the bottom came from .

Hull needs another set of strakes between the keel and the original first strake . This would cure the 'lift and roll over' problem, and probably give the boat another 15 to 40 MPH depending on power .

Building the FIRST of any boat always includes plenty of R&D, by the manufacturer or the guy who buys the hull and rigs it himself . A 'proven hull' with jet or Bravo becomes 'a one off prototype' when you install a V-drive or some #6's . I've been told on this site; "if going fast were easy, everyone would be doing it" . I agree .

Every boat I sold 'turn key' got a full demo ride, multiple prop testing, verified speeds, and NEW DRIVER CHECK OUT, maintenence list, before I took anyone's money . I suggest it's a good safe way to do business .

You'll see when I start building boats again .

What purpose does the notched transom serve?

 

[AzGeo]

What purpose does the notched transom serve?

The notch acts as an 'off transom bracket' for the outdrive . The notch 'shortens the keel line' and this allows the drive or O/B to be mounted higher up, relative to a 'normal X dimension' . Even V-bottoms use a notch, trying to keep water on the prop, while allowing the drive (s) to be raised .

In the past, high performance O/Bs would mount the motor on an 'off transom bracket', to get the higher propeller line . Bass boats were some of the first to use the 'notch' built into the fiberglass, while it acted like an 'off transom bracket' .

Seeing how bass boats used the fiberglass, I/O builders copied that same idea, and created the 'notch' to allow higher 'X' dimensions with I/Os .

If the fiberglass hull does not have a 'notch', some riggers will use a 'stand off box', to move the prop UP and farther behind the hull's keel line .

 

[Shortdeck]

The notch acts as an 'off transom bracket' for the outdrive . The notch 'shortens the keel line' and this allows the drive or O/B to be mounted higher up, relative to a 'normal X dimension' . Even V-bottoms use a notch, trying to keep water on the prop, while allowing the drive (s) to be raised .

In the past, high performance O/Bs would mount the motor on an 'off transom bracket', to get the higher propeller line . Bass boats were some of the first to use the 'notch' built into the fiberglass, while it acted like an 'off transom bracket' .

Seeing how bass boats used the fiberglass, I/O builders copied that same idea, and created the 'notch' to allow higher 'X' dimensions with I/Os .

If the fiberglass hull does not have a 'notch', some riggers will use a 'stand off box', to move the prop UP and farther behind the hull's keel line .

So generally speaking, the notched transom is more for performance than ride comfort? I would thinking you wanted ride comfort, a longer keel would be more desirable.

I ask because with a notched transom its a bitch to mount a set of tunnel tabs.

 

[was thatguy]

I had that many posts my first week [emoji12]

All while "on the clock" too!!

 

[JRider]

The top boat has a deep first step, and it appears to have such a small second step (or two), that it will do nothing .

The lower boat has 'more equally sized 1st and 2nd steps, but the rear of the sponsons have 'rocker' in them .

'Rocker' makes no lift, it only allows the boat (if balanced correctly) to ride 'harder' on the tail . (at high speeds)

With no strakes under the rear of the hull, how does anyone expect to 'lift' 3800+ lbs of motors, drives and trans, 'up off' of the little center pod? Now also consider the #6 'leverage point', on the boat (gross mass) .

As to your question about 'curtains along side the notches', YES, they will help IF you get the boat to pack some air, they hold very little naturally . I'm calling the 'notch' under the transom 'the notch', and yes the 'air vents' at all the steps should be closed too .

My boat does not have rocker, I think you may be seeing the bunk or the other side of the trailer.

What about filling the notch? Wouldnt that help carry the load of the #6s + add compression?

 

[JRider]

The pic angle is slightly different but good enough to see the difference in step placement.

 

[was thatguy]

Unless your little sissy rage goes north of 120, no chance I will own it. Only way it will ever come near that is if you drop it out of a C130

Wrapped in bacon...

 

[Taboma]

Not seeing the rocker either