I'm sick of CA taxes!

[Ironmike]

I advise you get your Montana LLC. I do not understand why keep the trailer regged in cal.. AZ was permanent as well as MT. Do yourself a favor and get MT LLC.
Company that did mine has been good. Boat & trailer were initial fee of approx 2-300 i think? & then never again..... Permanently

 

[Roosky01]

Guessing this is part of the reason we see so many high end boats with MT registration numbers..

You see many high end "everything" with MT plates. Dont hate the player...

 

[Taboma]

How many tickets did he have for the same violation prior?

You need to have a story other than, “Yea I’ve had my AZ registered trailer at my CA house for 5 years now and it’s never been a problem.

Again, all you need to do is break the chain of custody directly to you and say the thing registered out of state will be in CA less than 20 days.

Other states have similar laws, some are not as punitive as CA. So what state’s law are you going to break?

This guy doesn't fuck around with conjured up stories. Not everybody lies their way through life in order to get their way or save a few dollars because they don't like some law or regulation.
He told the cop the truth, he simply didn't realize as do many, that it was illegal.
There's really no dollar value or other benefit I'm aware of for having AZ plates on a trailer.

The only law I'm aware of breaking is my desire to occasionally drive faster than those pesky posted speed limits. The extent normally depends on if I'm alone and what I'm driving.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

This guy doesn't fuck around with conjured up stories. Not everybody lies their way through life in order to get their way or save a few dollars because they don't like some law or regulation.
He told the cop the truth, he simply didn't realize as do many, that it was illegal.
There's really no dollar value or other benefit I'm aware of for having AZ plates on a trailer.

The only law I'm aware of breaking is my desire to occasionally drive faster than those pesky posted speed limits. The extent normally depends on if I'm alone and what I'm driving.

And yet the results of ignorance ended up the same as baing prepared with a backstory on that day… maybe worse.

There is a dollar value on the trailer in the form of sales tax for CA because they didn’t get the tax. Possibly a large dollar value for your friend if he bought it from a private party and didn’t pay sales tax by registering it in AZ.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

The high degree of California taxes should be considered weather taxes. I once saw a great YouTube video explaining this topic, be it tongue in cheek.

The increase in people from California posting grievances about policy and tax costs on RDP should be a subtle example of one of the driving forces citizens of other states find themselves in various levels of frustration concerning the state. Policies developed in California have a habit of affecting the rest of the country in some form—gas blends, emission standards, education policy etc etc etc. Even the GD gas can filler nozzle is a byproduct of California legislative policy. (FWIW, I once knew the guy who invented that POS, and he was well aware it was a POS, but his strategy was to get a legislative mandate and not make a better nozzle)

Those of us citizens who are California natives know all too well the overbearing quality of life attacks developed in California influence the rest of the country. When I hate on California, it is in a generalist sense and not directed at any individual. The legislative policies are what most hate with vigor. However, you can point out California citizens in the grocery store without seeing a license plate based on expectations, personality, and outward projections. Sitting in four hours of traffic every day has a negative impact on people. It certainly did me.

The Montana LLC deal is grossly undervalued. It is incredibly cheap to establish and maintain. At some point, an ExPat California Native who gains influence in Montana will figure out that the Montana LLC out-of-state registration can provide a readily available pool of high-net-worth individuals who will gladly tolerate a significant increase in the costs to maintain this trick to tax savings. Montana could massively increase these costs, and the people who don't want to pay registration and sales tax on their half-million-dollar toys could help our citizens. Our state road construction projects have been backlogged for ten years. This means a project that is deemed necessary today will not be completed any time soon.

 

[Taboma]

And yet the results of ignorance ended up the same as baing prepared with a backstory on that day… maybe worse.

There is a dollar value on the trailer in the form of sales tax for CA because they didn’t get the tax. Possibly a large dollar value for your friend if he bought it from a private party and didn’t pay sales tax by registering it in AZ.

Backstory ?
The truthful backstory is he wasn't aware it was a problem. Any other backstory wouldn't be a backstory, it would be a lie.
So if there was money owed, then he stepped up and met his obligation.
This is how honest adults of good character are supposed to act, isn't it ?

 

[FROGMAN524]

Backstory ?
The truthful backstory is he wasn't aware it was a problem. Any other backstory wouldn't be a backstory, it would be a lie.
So if there was money owed, then he stepped up and met his obligation.
This is how honest adults of good character are supposed to act, isn't it ?

I’ve been saying that, but people make fun of me here for being a sucker. But I’ll say it again, I sleep like a baby.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Backstory ?
The truthful backstory is he wasn't aware it was a problem. Any other backstory wouldn't be a backstory, it would be a lie.
So if there was money owed, then he stepped up and met his obligation.
This is how honest adults of good character are supposed to act, isn't it ?

And he paid the consequences of his ignorance. Ignorance is no excuse either.

Once again, How did he obtain said trailer? Was it purchased via a private party and he avoided paying sales tax? That is really the only reason you'd leave something registered in AZ anyway according to the details of your story. If that is the case your friend is not a honest adult of good character.

Also, shouldn't honest adults not willfully break the law and drive at an excessive speed? You said you occasionally engage in law breaking as it relates to speed limits and you KNOW you are breaking the law but you do it anyway. Putting yourself and others at risk does not sounds like good moral character either.

 

[Singleton]

And yet the results of ignorance ended up the same as baing prepared with a backstory on that day… maybe worse.

There is a dollar value on the trailer in the form of sales tax for CA because they didn’t get the tax. Possibly a large dollar value for your friend if he bought it from a private party and didn’t pay sales tax by registering it in AZ.

As you know, CA has some unique laws. One being if you are a CA resident anything with wheels owned by you and driven or towed on CA roads, must be CA registered. To try and rationalize why, it would take way too much energy.

The funny part, that makes zero sense.

• I am a CA resident, SUV registered in my name, boat trailer registered in AZ, in my wife‘s name, I am driving = 100% legal.
• Wife is a CA resident, SUV registered in my name, boat trailer registered in AZ, in my wife's name, wife driving = 100% legal
• Yet if that SUV is registered to both of us, it is illegal.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Also, shouldn't honest adults not willfully break the law and drive at an excessive speed? You said you occasionally engage in law breaking as it relates to speed limits and you KNOW you are breaking the law but you do it anyway. Putting yourself and others at risk does not sounds like good moral character either.

Punishable by fine is just another way of saying legal for a fee.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I’ve been saying that, but people make fun of me here for being a sucker. But I’ll say it again, I sleep like a baby.

If you complain about taxes and don't leverage what is lawfully and legally available to you to reduce your tax burden, you might be a sucker... Or just don't complain.

Everyone with a Montana LLC sleeps like a baby too with their wallet as a pillow.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

As you know, CA has some unique laws. One being if you are a CA resident anything with wheels driven or towed on CA roads, must be CA registered. To try and rationalize why, it would take way too much energy.

The funny part, that makes zero sense.

• I am a CA resident, SUV registered in my name, boat trailer registered in AZ, in my wife‘s name, I am driving = 100% legal.
• Wife is a CA resident, SUV registered in my name, boat trailer registered in AZ, in my wife's name, wife driving = 100% legal
• Yet if that SUV is registered to both of us, it is illegal.

This exactly. I have a home in AZ, and a car registered there. If the car is there in AZ more than 90 days I am to register it in AZ. If my AZ car is in CA more than 20 days I have to register it there.

Unless I go to the MVD or DMV on every trip back and forth, what state law am I supposed to break as a honest adult of moral character?

CA is the only one that seems to punitively seek you out for this. As I said, all you have to do is break the chain of custody and you are fine on the roadside with a LEO.

 

[Singleton]

This exactly. I have a home in AZ, and a car registered there. If the car is there in AZ more than 90 days I am to register it in AZ. If my AZ car is in CA more than 20 days I have to register it there.

Unless I go to the MVD or DMV on every trip back and forth, what state law am I supposed to break as a honest adult of moral character?

CA is the only one that seems to punitively seek you out for this. As I said, all you have to do is break the chain of custody and you are fine on the roadside with a LEO.

What state are you a resident of?
That 90 day rule, is only applicable to AZ residents when the vehicle is own by the same person. If the vehicle is owned by a LLC from another state and stays in AZ over 90 days, I am not sure it applies (Could not find anything online about that last night).

 

[FlyByWire]

Punishable by fine is just another way of saying legal for a fee.

Ooh. I LOVE this!

 

[JL95]

I never even knew about this tax. Shows I don't have a boat lmao. This state just strips your soul, pockets first though. So that $2400 will be an annual occurrence? Would def have to pencil that into the equation looking at boats.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Punishable by fine is just another way of saying legal for a fee.

Yes. Pay the fine and move on with life. These aren’t criminal matters that will trip you up in the future.

Equating morality to what at its core is a parking ticket for state laws that essentially entrap you seems to be a stretch.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

Ooh. I LOVE this!

It was a comment my son made about my practice of riding my E-MTB on trails that are posted as restricted to non motorized travel.

It is my new mantra.

 

[GreenEnergy28]

If you spent over $20K in sales tax, you have RDP money. Quit crying poor.

School fees on a boat? Seriously?

I have a loan on the boat, so by RDP standards, that makes me poor! LOL.

Yes, this is a county "unsecured property" tax. So, I pay my property tax on my house, ($10k/year) that includes the school fees, then I pay the unsecured property tax for the boat that is parked on the property that I already paid taxes for... also paying school fees. I believe the schools fees were around $80 for the boat.

 

[FlyByWire]

It was a comment my son made about my practice of riding my E-MTB on trails that are posted as restricted to non motorized travel.

It is my new mantra.

I seriously love it, and I’m going to use it every time I’m called a road pirate.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

What state are you a resident of?
That 90 day rule, is only applicable to AZ residents when the vehicle is own by the same person. If the vehicle is owned by a LLC from another state and stays in AZ over 90 days, I am not sure it applies (Could not find anything online about that last night).

I think in AZ you are correct regarding residency. I need to look at what the law here is in UT again. I looked at the registrar laws when I moved and it was different than AZ. Different states are different it seems. Out of state residents in UT are able to register their cars here if they wish.

I am breaking the law with my AZ registered car here in UT.. but again police are not actively seeking people out for what equates to meaningless BS unless they have you on the roadside for breaking other laws.

And then the registration itself is only a few bucks anyway.

 

[Singleton]

I think in AZ you are correct. I need to look at what the law here is in UT again. I looked when I moved and it was different than AZ. Different states are different it seems. Out of state residents in UT are able to register their cars here if they wish.

I am probably breaking the law with my AZ registered cars here in UT.. but again police are not actively seeking people out for what equates to meaningless BS unless they have you on the roadside for breaking other laws.

And then the registration itself is only a few bucks anyway.

You are a bad person, breaking the law
Throw in SXS’s and it gets even worse

 

[angiebaby]

I have a loan on the boat, so by RDP standards, that makes me poor! LOL.

Yes, this is a county "unsecured property" tax. So, I pay my property tax on my house, ($10k/year) that includes the school fees, then I pay the unsecured property tax for the boat that is parked on the property that I already paid taxes for... also paying school fees. I believe the schools fees were around $80 for the boat.

But you have a $250K boat. 90% of the nation thinks that's pretty wealthy, even if you didn't pay cash for it.

 

[Taboma]

And he paid the consequences of his ignorance. Ignorance is no excuse either.

Once again, How did he obtain said trailer? Was it purchased via a private party and he avoided paying sales tax? That is really the only reason you'd leave something registered in AZ anyway according to the details of your story. If that is the case your friend is not a honest adult of good character.

Also, shouldn't honest adults not willfully break the law and drive at an excessive speed? You said you occasionally engage in law breaking as it relates to speed limits and you KNOW you are breaking the law but you do it anyway. Putting yourself and others at risk does not sounds like good moral character either.

I'm not going to play your game and make this personal.
The direction you're attempting to steer this conversation is no longer relevant to the original topic.

 

[FROGMAN524]

If you complain about taxes and don't leverage what is lawfully and legally available to you to reduce your tax burden, you might be a sucker... Or just don't complain.

Everyone with a Montana LLC sleeps like a baby too with their wallet as a pillow.

I guess you missed the part 530 posted about Arizona having a task force that actually goes out looking for tax cheats.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I'm not going to play your game and make this personal.
The direction you're attempting to steer this conversation is no longer relevant to the original topic.

There is nothing personal about it.

I’m just asking you where does knowingly breaking laws for your pleasure or gain end, and taking the moral high ground begin?

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I guess you missed the part 530 posted about Arizona having a task force that actually goes out looking for tax cheats.

With a Montana LLC and your affairs in order, you aren’t “cheating”. You are leveraging what is available to you.

There are no laws saying how much a business has to do in revenue.

There are no laws saying when you have to collect revenue as a business

There are no laws saying you have to run a profitable or successful business.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

You are a bad person, breaking the law
Throw in SXS’s and it gets even worse

I have a car and a SXS registered in AZ right now.

I’m immoral because to have a UT street legal UTV I need blinkers. Mine does not have blinkers. In AZ you do not need blinkers for street legality, but UT recognizes AZ street legal status. So I registered my SXS at my AZ home for AZ street use.

The car was registered in AZ to avoid CA smog.. there is no smog in my county either, but I paid 2 year AZ registration on the car, and don’t drive it much here.

I will probably switch it over when the time comes.

 

[Taboma]

There is nothing personal about it.

I’m just asking you where does knowingly breaking laws for your pleasure or gain end, and taking the moral high ground begin?

I suppose we all have that "Line" we won't cross. In my life that line has moved in both directions as I've progressed through my life lessons.
I have no right or obligation to stand on any high moral grounds.
I appreciate and respect honesty in others, and expect nothing less of myself.
Last time I was pulled over for exceeding the speed limit was about 25 years ago, I didn't create any backstory, I was fully honest with the officer, I suppose he appreciated it and nicely reduced the amount I was over.

 

[SJP]

I am not a tax attorney in any state so I am not qualified to give advise on this matter. Great thread and everybody does what they think is best for them or their business(s).

Funny story growing up a farmer’s son. We lived three miles from our farm. My dad did not register any of our toys (boats, jet skis, quads etc). Summer cars had plates but old inspection cards (NY state thing). I remember my dad taking a snowmobile trip and just grabbing a plate off of the garage wall for the trailer on the way out the door. You ask what happens if a cop pulls you over in between your house and the farm? It may have happened a time or two on that back road (Black Creek Road) pronounced Black Crick Rd. “Hey Danny how is your mom and dad? Is Sheriff Chet treating you OK? See you guys at the department clambake next weekend. Take care and we both drive off.”

I am sure things are different now my brother is still there and his program is pretty straight. Last summer he asked me if I had my NY boating license… Just never thought I would be reading stories on splitting hairs regarding what state people are paying taxes and fees to. If everything is current I am a little perplexed. I mean the spirit of it was to prevent theft originally. I understand it is a money grab but I do not have to like it or go along with it.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

With a Montana LLC and your affairs in order, you aren’t “cheating”. You are leveraging what is available to you.

There are no laws saying how much a business has to do in revenue.

There are no laws saying when you have to collect revenue as a business

There are no laws saying you have to run a profitable or successful business.

I'm giving this mindset a lot of thought right now. I even considered a thread on the topic, but I know it will just digress into a shouting match.

Inflation being a silent tax, I am now considering revisiting the aggressive strategy of leveraging tax loopholes. The last many years it was not worth the effort to jump through the hoops. Now that my income yields less, I have to look for ways to increase its value, and paying less tax now seems worth the effort.

Some may cry foul, and others may say you should have practiced this all along, but one thing I'm pretty sure of is that the fastest way to increase my revenue is through exercising tax-saving opportunities.

My annual payroll increases are not keeping up with inflation, so hustlers gotta hustle.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I'm giving this mindset a lot of thought right now. I even considered a thread on the topic, but I know it will just digress into a shouting match.

Inflation being a silent tax, I am now considering revisiting the aggressive strategy of leveraging tax loopholes. The last many years it was not worth the effort to jump through the hoops. Now that my income yields less, I have to look for ways to increase its value, and paying less tax now seems worth the effort.

Some may cry foul, and others may say you should have practiced this all along, but one thing I'm pretty sure of is that the fastest way to increase my revenue is through exercising tax-saving opportunities.

My annual payroll increases are not keeping up with inflation, so hustlers gotta hustle.

This, and I agree 100%.

Those 3 basic tenants are the first things my accountant said to me when I met her and became a client.

There are reasons the rich stay rich and others seem to be treading water to survive. I too do not leverage every single loophole I can, but I try to get the low hanging fruit, and the biggest bang for the buck.

FWIW I do not have a Montana LLC. I have not needed one to date.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

This, and I agree 100%.

Those 3 basic tenants are the first things my accountant said to me when I met her and became a client.

There are reasons the rich stay rich and others seem to be treading water to survive. I too do not leverage every single loophole I can, but I try to get the low hanging fruit, and the biggest bang for the buck.

FWIW I do not have a Montana LLC. I have not needed one to date.

I don't have a Montana LLC today either, but I have had them as well as S-Corps in the past. I don't currently own a business, but in the new year, I will be back on that bus, and I am currently exploring multiple opportunities.

It has been nice the last ten years to take a break from that grind, but it is time to get back in the ring.

 

[COCA COLA COWBOY]

If your boat is worth more that 10k it makes sense to register it anywhere other than California. My pontoon was purchased for $500 so I registered it in CA. I'm still trying to figure out why I am still in California....

 

[dread Pirate]

You see many high end "everything" with MT plates. Dont hate the player...

No hate. I'm just paying attention as I would still like to join that club.

 

[C_J_J_C]

I subscribe to the Shawshank Redemption theory, "Do you trust your wife?"

My wife owns the Arizona house and vehicles. Accountant told us if ever asked we are "separated." California taxes and smog can suck it.

 

[checkrdpast]

If you complain about taxes and don't leverage what is lawfully and legally available to you to reduce your tax burden, you might be a sucker... Or just don't complain.

Everyone with a Montana LLC sleeps like a baby too with their wallet as a pillow.

How can on do a Montana LLC if they don't have a business? We do have 3 homes but we don't rent out.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

How can on do a Montana LLC if they don't have a business? We do have 3 homes but we don't rent out.

Lots of options.. you just have to get creative.

Maybe you do some kind of consulting.

Maybe you import custom toothpicks.

 

[Sportin' Wood]

How can on do a Montana LLC if they don't have a business? We do have 3 homes but we don't rent out.

Marketing. LOL

 

[GreenEnergy28]

Added note to this topic.

I was having dinner with neighbors last night and asked Mike if he had been getting his property tax on his boat. (I found the boat for him, took him to go look at it, and helped him make the deal. I know what he paid for it) He told me yes, he had gotten his tax for the last two years. This year, the county taxed him $800. Knowing they tax 1% + school fees in my county, that means they appraised his 2019 Yamaha 242 at just under $80,000! WHAT THE FUCK!

How TF does the county tax you on what they decide the boat is worth? He didn't pay anywhere near $80k for that boat.

 

[FROGMAN524]

I have a car and a SXS registered in AZ right now.

I’m immoral because to have a UT street legal UTV I need blinkers. Mine does not have blinkers. In AZ you do not need blinkers for street legality, but UT recognizes AZ street legal status. So I registered my SXS at my AZ home for AZ street use.

The car was registered in AZ to avoid CA smog.. there is no smog in my county either, but I paid 2 year AZ registration on the car, and don’t drive it much here.

I will probably switch it over when the time comes.

If you like to gamble, go right ahead and do it. Let's say you own a Sport Chassis or a Lambo and you live in Scottsdale and piss off your neighbor, if he turns you into AZDOR because he knows you live here and have your vehicle here more than 90 days of the year, you'll end up with an expensive headache is my guess.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

If you like to gamble, go right ahead and do it. Let's say you own a Sport Chassis or a Lambo and you live in Scottsdale and piss off your neighbor, if he turns you into AZDOR because he knows you live here and have your vehicle here more than 90 days of the year, you'll end up with an expensive headache is my guess.

Sounds like you have the money to deal with it is my guess.

When the headache or ticket is cheaper to deal with, is it really a headache?

 

[FROGMAN524]

Sounds like you have the money to deal with it is my guess.

When the headache or ticket is cheaper to deal with, is it really a headache?

I have enough going on in my life between work, wife, kids and family and friends. Don't need anything else to think about, I pay it and move on. Just paid all 3 of my Arizona motor vehicle registrations yesterday.

 

[Singleton]

If you like to gamble, go right ahead and do it. Let's say you own a Sport Chassis or a Lambo and you live in Scottsdale and piss off your neighbor, if he turns you into AZDOR because he knows you live here and have your vehicle here more than 90 days of the year, you'll end up with an expensive headache is my guess.

This 90 day rule only applies to AZ residents and based on my research, it is 100% focused on NEW vehicle sales tax.
Since used vehicles in AZ pay no sales tax, it is not an issue. After purchase and payment of sales tax, it is perfectly legal to transfer ownership of said RV to your Montana LLC to limit future registration costs.

If you’re an AZ resident and want to purchase a new RV, go for it and pay the 8.9% in sales tax.
100% legal ways to do this using a Montana LLC.

 

[FROGMAN524]

This 90 day rule only applies to AZ residents and based on my research, it is 100% focused on NEW vehicle sales tax.
Since used vehicles in AZ pay no sales tax, it is not an issue. After purchase and payment of sales tax, it is perfectly legal to transfer ownership of said RV to your Montana LLC to limit future registration costs.

If you’re an AZ resident and want to purchase a new RV, go for it and pay the 8.9% in sales tax.
100% legal ways to do this using a Montana LLC.

I’ve spoken to several boat builders who won’t even deliver out of state to dodge the tax. They leave it up to you to figure out. If financing is involved, as mentioned, it becomes much harder to do.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

I’ve spoken to several boat builders who won’t even deliver out of state to dodge the tax. They leave it up to you to figure out. If financing is involved, as mentioned, it becomes much harder to do.

Yes there is nothing in it for them to deliver out of state.

 

[Singleton]

I’ve spoken to several boat builders who won’t even deliver out of state to dodge the tax. They leave it up to you to figure out. If financing is involved, as mentioned, it becomes much harder to do.

Same principles applies to CA residents. CA dislikes not getting sales tax on new vehicle sales.
Huge reason the RV I am looking at, is located outside of CA. It will be purchased without a loan and titled directly into a Montana LLC which is owned by my trust.

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Same principles applies to CA residents. CA dislikes not getting sales tax on new vehicle sales.
Huge reason the RV I am looking at, is located outside of CA. It will be purchased without a loan and titled directly into a Montana LLC which is owned by my trust.

Oh the immorality!

 

[Singleton]

Oh the immorality!

Two things in life you can‘t avoid. Death and Taxes.
Yet, everyone tries to avoid death as long as possible without being called immoral, yet avoid taxes and you are unethical.

Go figure

 

[LargeOrangeFont]

Two things in life you can‘t avoid. Death and Taxes.
Yet, everyone tries to avoid death as long as possible without being called immoral, yet avoid taxes and you are unethical.

Go figure

From people that call themselves conservative and claim to want smaller government no less.

 

[Taboma]

Two things in life you can‘t avoid. Death and Taxes.
Yet, everyone tries to avoid death as long as possible without being called immoral, yet avoid taxes and you are unethical.

Go figure

Certainly not immoral or unethical so long are you're not committing fraud to accomplish either.