Howard 22 Offshore Planing

[hallett21]

I'm being dense here, so I should be running a 22 prop and not stepping up to a 24?

Let me see if I understand this correctly - a numerically smaller numbered prop will give me more grunt out of the hole, but I will lose it on the top end. And a numerically larger prop will take longer to plane, but will give me a faster top end?

So being that my boat doesn't plane until around 2300 rpm, a 22 prop would bring me on plane faster? Is this because the engine would rev faster, therefore bringing me up on plane faster? Much like a numerically higher gear ratio?

You got it. Higher pitch prop equals better top end, to a point. Lower pitch prop equals better holeshot and higher WOT rpm.

 

[hallett21]

How far out are you trimming your out drive?

 

[Chili Palmer]

You got it. Higher pitch prop equals better top end, to a point. Lower pitch prop equals better holeshot and higher WOT rpm.

So I will be losing some of my top end? Or will it be about the same since I should be able to pick up 400-500 rpm with the smaller prop?

 

[BajaMike]

So I will be losing some of my top end? Or will it be about the same since I should be able to pick up 400-500 rpm with the smaller prop?

You got it, you may actually get better top speed because you will have more RPMs, you will definitely get on plane faster. It would be like if you were in your truck, pulling a boat, and you pulled away from a stop light with the tranny in overdrive or in 4th gear in a manual tranny.

Regardless, it is very hard on your engine to be over-propped like that. I know 2 guys who have busted their cranks when they were chasing speed with props that were too high.

Good luck!

 

[BajaMike]

How far out are you trimming your out drive?

That's a good point also....the drive should be all the way in when you start out....once you are on plane you can lift it up for more speed and efficiency.

 

[GregG]

Plenty of good advice for you Chili. I would not overthink things just yet as propping is an art and a science. Start by dropping down to 22 with whatever is easy for you to grab and try for free like a Bravo 1 four blade or a Rev4 or Solas. Run that '02 220 Offshore with just you and half or more tank of fuel and see if the 22 Pitch brings you to 5,000 - 5,025 RPM. Don't take it further than that as no reason to hit the limiter. If you get those RPM's take a speed reading as well. A pleasant by-product of the smaller wheel will be coming out of the hole a little easier and faster. Be sure as BajaMike and hallet21 mentioned that your drive is tucked all the way in at launch. Sometimes you think it is but there is still 1/4" to go which means a lot.

Once you get a baseline you can start adjusting from there with PVS holes and rings etc but as has been pointed out, you don't want to lug that engine :thumbsdown

 

[RiverDave]

I have never heard of breaking cranks, or over propping being exceptionally bad for a motor.. I just can't hardly imagine it would do anything to a motor other then make it not run in it's max RPM range.

RD

 

[GregG]

So I will be losing some of my top end? Or will it be about the same since I should be able to pick up 400-500 rpm with the smaller prop?

You may find out that you actually go just a touch faster with the 22 versus the 23 if you are getting to the proper RPM's

 

[GregG]

I had a Howard 22 Offshore and I think I ran a 4 Blade 22 Pitch prop which planning was never a problem.

What power did you have in your 220 Offshore?

 

[GregG]

I may have found the issue here. I've got a 23 prop, not a 24 that everyone else is running, Also, I have a saddle tanks - 25 gallons each. Why if 35 gallon tanks fit didn't Gene just install those and just add it to the base cost of the boat?

Did you get a chance to try a 22 prop yet Chili? should be interesting to see if it helps you with getting on plane quicker and what it does to top speed :hmm

 

[Chili Palmer]

Did you get a chance to try a 22 prop yet Chili? should be interesting to see if it helps you with getting on plane quicker and what it does to top speed :hmm

I'm not heading to the river until the weekend of the 21st next month now that the kids are back to school. In the meantime I'm going see if I can find a place that will let me borrow or rent a prop then apply that cost to the purchase of a new one.

 

[GregG]

I'm sure that there is a couple of great prop shops that will do a "try and buy" for you so you can test 'em out

 

[GregG]

My 24 Schiada is the full V all the way to the transom, 540 HP, B1, with a 24P Bravo prop. It will get on plane real quick with 60 gallons of fuel, 5 adults and loaded with wakeboards and a big ice chest.

Did all Schiada 24's have full V's?. I wonder what the side measurement is on the Schiada 24 as compared to the Vaughn 22. I believe it is 26" on the Vaughn's at the bucket seat location.

 

[GregG]

Side by side shot. The Howard is a closed deck 1994 220 Offshore Gen 1. The closed decks come with jumper seats that are under the deck as well as a small bed. I'm not sure if the Schiada closed deck 24's have the seats under the deck as well. Good looking hulls.

 

[Ballyhoo]

Did all Schiada 24's have full V's?. I wonder what the side measurement is on the Schiada 24 as compared to the Vaughn 22. I believe it is 26" on the Vaughn's at the bucket seat location.

I dont know what the breakdown is with 24s, but they have made 24s in full vees, vee with a delta pad and a couple vees with a step. Everything is a trade off. I think they are back to building more full vees these days. My full vee rides like a battleship in any nasty Havasu chop.

 

[GregG]

That is interesting Ballyhoo, thanks for the info. I know you said your 24 Schiada has a full V. Does it have any jumper seats under the front deck? :thumbup:

 

[GregG]

I'm assuming that over the years they were built some of the Schiada 24's had the small under bow kid seats and some did not .......

 

[Ballyhoo]

I'm assuming that over the years they were built some of the Schiada 24's had the small under bow kid seats and some did not .......

No jumper seats on mine. 2 buckets and a bench.

 

[GregG]

Cool, thanks. There is a picture of a 1993 Howard 220 Offshore Gen 1 with twin wackers. These had small twin jumper seats under the dash area.

 

[GregG]

40 gallons? I wish. Mine on my Howard are only 25 gallons each. At a 1/2 tank it's 12-13 gallons to top off.

I think the standard side gas tank size Howard used on there 220 Offshores were 35 gallons each. I'm not sure why they would have cut back to 25 gallon size on your '03 220. That sucks :thumbsdown

 

[Keys22Howie]

The person I bought my boat from was the original owner and told me the 35gal tanks were a upgrade

 

[GregG]

Thanks. That is really surprising that 35 gallon tanks were an upgrade when you think of how much Howard liked to install big power and that the 220's were set up for rougher water. It does not take long to go through 50 gallons of fuel. What year is your boat?

 

[Chili Palmer]

Thanks. That is really surprising that 35 gallon tanks were an upgrade when you think of how much Howard liked to install big power and that the 220's were set up for rougher water. It does not take long to go through 50 gallons of fuel. What year is your boat?

My boat's a 2002.
Unless the tanks have a huge remaining 2nd half (which I haven't pushed yet), they seem to be 25's.

 

[Keys22Howie]

Mine is a 2000. I could tell the tanks were larger because the cup holders for the rear seats were cut down shorter and welded back together. They are very shallow cup holders

 

[GregG]

Mine is a 2000. I could tell the tanks were larger because the cup holders for the rear seats were cut down shorter and welded back together.

Goodbye cup holders, hello 35 gallon saddle tanks. I wonder if the transom width of the Howard 220 Offshore is the same as the Vaughn 22.

 

[GregG]

I have a 92' 22 Offshore and it is an interesting boat. But if the lean is bothering you as it was me, I swear there were times I thought I was going to drop out of the boat. BJ discovered a significant fix was available by reversing the rotation of the prop. Oh yeah, enjoy my desert storm pic, courtesy of Pink Taco, I love this boat, even with the pink stripe!

View attachment 287379

Someone I know just bought a 1992 220 Offshore Open Bow. He has not splashed it yet but it'll be interesting to see if it also has the lean you mention.

 

[BasilHayden]

Someone I know just bought a 1992 220 Offshore Open Bow. He has not splashed it yet but it'll be interesting to see if it also has the lean you mention.

Spoke to someone another owner at the Regatta, his was a 93' as i recall and he definitely has the issue. I think he plans to try the reverse prop, honestly its a huge difference.

That said, had a blast and ran it harder this trip than ever. We ran it from Steamboat to Topack and rarely dropped under 3700, 50mph on the phone gps, ran for a good while north of 4200 which was what it took to stay with the 28's though I know they weren't on it. Anyways I stay with the statement, it is awesome up to 70!, even in the mess we had due to all the Howard's passing everyone on the river.

Coming back down just below the sandbar there had to have been 15 - 20 kayaks spread across the river, a la bicyclists who want to make sure you know they own the road. Well when a few of the big boys were bearing down on them, I'm pretty sure there were some bio hazards in the river. No one got hit, but it scared the hell out of a few of us. We came to idle past these clowns and then nailed it. I honestly don't know what goes through some of these clowns minds. Sure kayaking is fun, but really a good idea on a Saturday to roll down the middle of the river side by side from shore to shore?

 

[GregG]

I will let him know BH seeing as his is also a 1992. He has a stock 502 making 415hp in his Howard.

One thing that is interesting is that the transom width of the Howard 220 Offshore Gen 1 and the Vaughn 22 is identical at 92". I wonder what the width is on a Schiada 24 Mini Offshore as a comparison?

 

[RiverDave]

I will let him know BH seeing as his is also a 1992. He has a stock 502 making 415hp in his Howard.

One thing that is interesting is that the transom width of the Howard 220 Offshore Gen 1 and the Vaughn 22 is identical at 92". I wonder what the width is on a Schiada 24 Mini Offshore as a comparison?

Are you still under the impression they are different boats Greg?

 

[GregG]

Are you still under the impression they are different boats Greg?

Don't know, but it is interesting that Vaughn built there 22's for 10 years before they leased the molds to Roger Hocking to make the Hocking 22.

 

[GregG]

Howard 220 Offshore ........

 

[GregG]

Hmm. I'm the first guy to want to learn something but now I'm confused badass. Here are two Howard catalog ads. One from 1994 which would be a Gen 1, and one from 1999 which would be the Gen 2. Both are calling the boats "220"' yet you're calling it "22". That is why I referred to the boat above as a 220.

 

[Crazyhippy]

Listen Gregass, you have completely shit in the OP's thread with a bunch of speculation and misinformation. This was about a handling problem and you turned it into a conversation with yourself about something totally different. Cant wait to meet you someday and knock the pocket protector out of your shirt pocket as a payback for changing my name to "Badass".

It's what he does... He will take this information to another website and present it as fact... I have watched it happen with Bernico boats, and the Nordic 21'.

The fun part is the absolute lack of awareness that this is on any way wrong:banghead:

 

[Chili Palmer]

This thread has gone completely sideways of my original query. I think a smaller, probably 14x21 prop would solve my problem. I've got a demo heading my way in a couple of weeks when I can make back out to the river again. I'm heading out this weekend, but didn't think far ahead enough to order the prop in time.

On the questions I didn't ask - Why not call Gene Willen at Howard? I'm sure he'd give all the info that everyone has been speculating on and give you the reasons he did what he did and clear up all this hull design BS.

 

[GregG]

Actually you are all right, and I stand corrected. Sorry for the subject derail and good luck with the prop change to fix your problem.

 

[DomesticDrifter]

Howard 220 Offshore ........

Where did you get this picture? Just randomly on the internet or did you know the owner?

 

[Ballyhoo]

What ever happened with the get on plane issue regarding the Howard?

@2FORCEFULL : When you had a 24 Schiada, what issues did you notice?

 

[Chili Palmer]

What ever happened with the get on plane issue regarding the Howard?

@2FORCEFULL : When you had a 24 Schiada, what issues did you notice?

My buddy has a 22 Offshore closed bow, but his also puts out another 150+ more horsepower than mine, so that kind of made me think that mine was slow getting out of the hole and up on plane, but it seems to do just fine. It'll get up to about 63-65 mph at about 4900 rpm with the 23p Solas prop which is just fine for me.

It's a much better boat than my previous boat - a Howard 22 Sport openbow. It was a very shallow V that hated rough water, it just beat the crap out of you, plus it had the 350, not much of hot rod. One time I had it all trimmed out and running on (what felt like) the ragged edge and the speedo showed us going 61 mph. I asked my son to get my phone out and see what the GPS speed was on it........he said do you really want to know? Yeah, tell me............47mph. Ugh! Couldn't even break 50 mph.

This boat is definitely a serious upgrade.