Howard 22 Offshore Planing

[GregG]

I have the 2nd Gen Howard 1st out of the mold in 1994 non delta, that came after, The 22 offshore from what I heard was a splash off a Hocking, same bottom same deck. Mark

Good info Mark. So you actually have a 1994 22 Offshore? And your 1994 was the first hull that Howard built? That's cool. Yours would be a Generation 1 with the Gen 2 coming in 1997 I believe. Is the HIN on your boat ending with 94 or does it end with 93, just curious. Do you have the twin saddle tanks as well?

 

[MarkC]

Yes, it was the 1st out of the mold, it actually took a year to build and was in the mold for over a month, Brett Park who was with Cole left and partnered with Gene and rigged my boat, I'm good friends with both, the Hull # was 94 even though I took delivery in 95. I thought it was second gen from the 1st one that was re-tooled...

Mark

 

[BasilHayden]

I thought when Recycle Performance said your 220 Offshore has two 40 gallon side saddle tanks that was awfully big. The 1994 220 Offshore I looked at had two 25 gallon side tanks. I think that Howard must have used them to possibly allow for more floor storage in those boats. I'm not sure if the later Gen 2 hulls went to belly tanks.

I think the tanks on mine are so big as it was used a few times in the Catalina race. With the blower albeit small it does drink some fuel.

 

[brendellajet]

This thread has a lot of great info on a boat that I have been dreaming about for the last few months. Unfortunately I think Ill have to pass on purchasing as the 70mph mark is pretty boring to me.had plans to drop my 540 in one but it sounds like that would be a waste. Sounds like there are two versions of the boat, do they both suffer this ill handling at 70?

 

[MarkC]

I certainly would redo the bottom and have it straighten out as any other boat putting big HP.:thumbup:

It really is a fun boat and bullet proof!

Mark

 

[GregG]

Yes, it was the 1st out of the mold, it actually took a year to build and was in the mold for over a month, Brett Park who was with Cole left and partnered with Gene and rigged my boat, I'm good friends with both, the Hull # was 94 even though I took delivery in 95. I thought it was second gen from the 1st one that was re-tooled...

Mark

My understanding was that when Howard took delivery of the Hocking molds (the origins of which were Vaughn circa 1979) they built the first 220 Offshore from them in 1992. BasilHayden has a 1992 220 Offshore and may have the first one ever built for all any of us know! Howard kept that design from 1992 until 1997 at which point they re-tooled and created the Generation 2 hull the bottom of which was a fairly major change. In 1997 they added the Delta Pad while still maintaining 22 degrees of dead rise and the same bow shear. I have never ever heard of a 220 Offshore that was built before 1992, but I could be wrong.

Now a hook in a strake or bottom is easily solved and repaired with modern technology. Just get on your creeper and start laying out the six foot straight edge

 

[GregG]

I think the tanks on mine are so big as it was used a few times in the Catalina race. With the blower albeit small it does drink some fuel.

If your 1992 Howard 220 Offshore was built for Catalina then it makes perfect sense that Howard would have upgraded the side saddle tanks from the stock 25 gallons each to 40 gallons each or 80 total.

 

[Ballyhoo]

The Howard 220 Offshore was not derived from the Schiada 24, it's origins are the Vaughn 22 so I doubt they have similar bottoms. Does your Schiada 24 have a belly tank and how many gallons?

Mine has 30 gallon side tanks = 60 gallons total.

 

[RiverDave]

RD

 

[GregG]

I have personally seen the 24 Schiada, and the 220 Howard directly across from each other at the LA Boat show. I didn't have a measuring tape on me, but they sure damn looked the same. Gene has also said to me on multiple occasions that the bottom of the 22 is in fact a shortened 24 Schiada...So there's always that. The question is very EASILY SOLVED THOUGH. Paul OD1 has a 24 Schiada, and we have several members on here with 220 Howard Offshores. Why don't we put them side x side and do some basic measuring and see what's what? RD

Given the owner of Vaughn Boats said himself that he did not splash a Schiada 24 and his Vaughn 22 had a different bottom, and the lead rigger at Howard said he personally was there when a Hocking 22 (direct splash of the Vaughn 22 under license) was delivered and used to make the mold for the Howard 220 Offshore is it possible that Gene Willen just mixed up his boats when he said that? Also since you did not have a tape measure, it would be really interesting to put a Schiada 24 and a Howard 220 Offshore next to each other on the trailer and start measuring. Also measure the side chine to the top of the gunnel on each boat. Bring a lot of beer lol

Does anyone know what the deadrise on the Schiada 24 is at the transom?

 

[GregG]

I recently upgraded to a 2002 Howard 22 Offshore and love it. It's got the 496 HO with a Bravo 1X and runs great, but it seems to take a while to get up on plane with a 4 blade prop

Would be curious to see good pictures of the bottom of your '02 Howard 220 Offshore Chili if you are near it this weekend. Also check out the make and model of your prop. Does your 220 have dual side tanks or a single belly tank?

 

[tony]

Is there the same issues at 70+with the later 22xl offshore say 99 and up? I've noticed that some of the earlier ones dont have the notch in the back of the transom that the later ones do? Also gene told me and my brother personaly that the 22XL was a copy of a 24 schiada and that the first 2/3 of the bullett's are a 22XL? I love the way the22XL look and seem to have a lot of room for a 22 foot boat.. Also wondering if the bullett line have any of these issues?

 

[plaster dave]

Given the owner of Vaughn Boats said himself that he did not splash a Schiada 24 and his Vaughn 22 had a different bottom, and the lead rigger at Howard said he personally was there when a Hocking 22 (direct splash of the Vaughn 22 under license) was delivered and used to make the mold for the Howard 220 Offshore is it possible that Gene Willen just mixed up his boats when he said that? Also since you did not have a tape measure, it would be really interesting to put a Schiada 24 and a Howard 220 Offshore next to each other on the trailer and start measuring like the pic below. Also measure the side chine to the top of the gunnel on each boat. Bring a lot of beer lol

Does anyone know what the deadrise on the Schiada 24 is at the transom?

Gene has said the same thing to me before as he did RD.

 

[GregG]

Is there the same issues at 70+with the later 22xl offshore say 99 and up? I've noticed that some of the earlier ones dont have the notch in the back of the transom that the later ones do? Also gene told me and my brother personaly that the 22XL was a copy of a 24 schiada and that the first 2/3 of the bullett's are a 22XL? I love the way the22XL look and seem to have a lot of room for a 22 foot boat.. Also wondering if the bullett line have any of these issues?

Howard built another 22' model that was a shallow V more for skiing that they named the "22 Sport". The Offshores were a completely different hull. The 220 Offshore XL was the exact same boat as the 220 Offshore I believe. I could never figure out why Howard used so many different names for the model. Those included 22 Offshore Open Bow, 220 Offshore, and 220 Offshore XL. I think Magnum was thrown in there at some point as well. In 1997 Howard re-did the bottom of the 220 Offshore model and incorporated a delta pad and a transom notch of 12" I am not sure of the transom notch came at the exact same time or one year later but I believe both the true Delta Pad and Transom Notch were tooled into the hull for early 1997 models and beyond. As I think about this thread, I bet the delta pad was added to overcome some of the handling issues associated with the Generation 1 boats. Notches were being added by many builders to allow for a higher X dimension on the drive. As far as handling differences between the Generation 1 hulls (1992 thru 1996) and the Generation 2 hulls of 1997 and beyond I bet there are some differences that owners on here can comment on. That said, if they stayed with twin side fuel tanks on the Gen 2's they were not helping the boats handling.

 

[GregG]

If you guys keep talking about boats instead of boobs the site owner is gonna get pissed and ban me

 

[tony]

Howard built another 22' model that was a shallow V more for skiing that they named the "22 Sport". The Offshores were a completely different hull. The 220 Offshore XL was the exact same boat as the 220 Offshore I believe. I could never figure out why Howard used so many different names for the model. Those included 22 Offshore Open Bow, 220 Offshore, and 220 Offshore XL. I think Magnum was thrown in there at some point as well. In 1997 Howard re-did the bottom of the 220 Offshore model and incorporated a delta pad and a transom notch of 12" I am not sure of the transom notch came at the exact same time or one year later but I believe both the true Delta Pad and Transom Notch were tooled into the hull for early 1997 models and beyond. As I think about this thread, I bet the delta pad was added to overcome some of the handling issues associated with the Generation 1 boats. Notches were being added by many builders to allow for a higher X dimension on the drive. As far as handling differences between the Generation 1 hulls (1992 thru 1996) and the Generation 2 hulls of 1997 and beyond I bet there are some differences that owners on here can comment on. That said, if they stayed with twin side fuel tanks on the Gen 2's they were not helping the boats handling.

I thought that's what had the planning problem was the 22xl or 22offshore same boat? Also I've seen 22XL with a notch in the transom and no delta pad it was a 1999 there is a Boostpower 22xl video with it going well over 70 and looked stable!

 

[GregG]

Chili Palmer started this thread and has a 2002 Offshore 220 and yes he is evidently having a hard time coming up on plane. I think he has both the Notch and the Delta Pad on his 2002 but his problem getting up on plane could be nothing more than needing a different prop for you particular rig.

As far as the 1999 Offshore 220 you saw that is interesting that it did not have a Delta Pad. Are you sure of that though? The Delta Pad is actually forward not at the stern so unless you got your arse underneath that 1999 is it possible that you missed the Delta Pad? I was always under the impression that the 220 was the Open Bow model and the 220XL was the Closed Deck model but if you are 100% sure that 1999 did not have a Delta Pad then wtf do I know.

Post up that video you found and let's have a look :eek

 

[Outnumbered]

Originally Posted by Vaughn888
There are so many stories that have gone around that I would love to straighten them out. I am Vaughn. I am a retired fireman and I was a boat builder. I built my own boats. They were not splashed from the 24' Schiada. Leonard Schiada sold the molds of the 24' Schiada to someone in Canada by the way. Measurements were taken from a boat that was a 22' that had been one of the few Schiadas that had been built from the 24' mold which ultimately went to Canada. I started working on my molds in 1974. I produced the first one in 1979. Some of the changes I made were different lifting strakes as well as many others. Some boats had delta pads. Some did not. My boats would not have fit into their molds. I stopped production around 1990. Building boats I found out draws out a lot of people who think they know something when often they know nothing at all. I might add that the 22' Schiada which was produced around 1974 was a much more shallow V.

I'm leaning toward RD's opinion here. The way I'm reading this is that he did not splash the entire boat but did take some measurements from a Schiada hull when he designed his hull. Maybe I'm just confused by the way he worded his statement:hmm

 

[GregG]

I think RD feels that the Vaughn was a direct copy of the Schiada 24 as he says below. The owner of Vaughn however says that he took some measurements off a Schiada 22 and then developed his own bottom. Did Schiada shorten there own 24 and do a 22 prototype? Maybe one hull only? As far as the Howard 220 Offshore, Dave is going to line up a 220 Offshore next to a Schiada 24 and measure up.

Howard 220 Offshore Gen 2 1997 - Came from Howard 22 Offshore Gen 1
Howard 220 Offshore Gen 1 1992 - Came from Hocking 22 circa 1990
Hocking 22 licensed splash - Came from Vaughn 22 first produced in 1979 with mold design started in 1974
Vaughn 22 with it's own bottom design - Came from some rough measurements of a 1974 Schiada 22 shallow V ski prototype........maybe?

Howard 220 forensics = priceless :champagne:

The Vaughn 22 is a direct copy of the 24 Schiada shortened, which was used as the mold to make the Howard 22. You can look at them side by side and they are exactly the same until you get to the transom area. RD

 

[GregG]

There is a Boostpower 220XL Offshore video with it going well over 70 and it looked stable!

Lets keep this rodeo going. Why not ask Boostpower whether it was a Gen 1 Howard 220 Offshore or a Gen 2 and what speeds and handling they encountered?

 

[Keys22Howie]

I just bought a 2000 22 offshore open bow with a 525hp engine. It has the notched transom, I have no issues getting on plan and I am running a labbed bravo 1 26p prop. I'm seeing speeds around 80mph and it handles great at high speeds. The previous owner built this boat new, and told me the stock size tanks are 25 gallon each and they are indeed side tanks. He upgraded mine to 35 gallon when he built mine. As far as this boat being built after a schiada 24. I have to say I was at parker for a week and my buddies dad has a 24 schiada that was parked next to my boat. There are similarities, but I would have to say there are way to many differences to be even be considered being copies of each other. They are really close in overall length, and the bow sits at the same height, but that's about it. The rear is completely different and the freeboard in the middle and especially the rear is defiantly higher on the howard. The howard appears to turn way sharper and tighter. Anybody that has driven a howard 22 offshore can attest for how hard and sharp these boats turn. It throws people from one side of the boat to the other no problem. You also sit up higher in the seat on the howard. There's more of a rake front to back on the schiada and the howard appears to sit flatter. Again these are just my observations. Next time we get our boats together I can provided detailed measurements, or next time I'm in parker I could meet up with somebody else that has a schiada and figure it out. This is a very solid built boat with great craftsmanship. It handles the rough with ease and still get up and goes. Perfect boat, couldn't ask for more.

 

[GregG]

It looks like the code has been cracked :thumbup:

Howard 220 Offshore Gen 2 1997 and newer (Howard added a Transom Notch) - Came from Howard 22 Offshore Gen 1
Howard 22 Offshore Gen 1 1992 to 1997 (straight 22 Degree V) - Came from Roger Hocking's 22 mold sold to Gene Willen at Howard circa 1990
Hocking 22 hull (licensed splash) 1987 to 1990 - Came from the Vaughn 22 first produced in 1979 in Paso Robles
Vaughn 22 with its own bottom design - Came from Vaughn Boats and was offered as I/O, V Drive, and even pad bottom O/B. The decks are not relevant but the bottom needs to be measured against a Schiada 24 to compare.

 

[tkrrox]

I just bought a 2000 22 offshore open bow with a 525hp engine. It has the notched transom, I have no issues getting on plan and I am running a labbed bravo 1 26p prop. I'm seeing speeds around 80mph and it handles great at high speeds. The previous owner built this boat new, and told me the stock size tanks are 25 gallon each and they are indeed side tanks. He upgraded mine to 35 gallon when he built mine. As far as this boat being built after a schiada 24. I have to say I was at parker for a week and my buddies dad has a 24 schiada that was parked next to my boat. There are similarities, but I would have to say there are way to many differences to be even be considered being copies of each other. They are really close in overall length, and the bow sits at the same height, but that's about it. The rear is completely different and the freeboard in the middle and especially the rear is defiantly higher on the howard. The howard appears to turn way sharper and tighter. Anybody that has driven a howard 22 offshore can attest for how hard and sharp these boats turn. It throws people from one side of the boat to the other no problem. You also sit up higher in the seat on the howard. There's more of a rake front to back on the schiada and the howard appears to sit flatter. Again these are just my observations. Next time we get our boats together I can provided detailed measurements, or next time I'm in parker I could meet up with somebody else that has a schiada and figure it out. This is a very solid built boat with great craftsmanship. It handles the rough with ease and still get up and goes. Perfect boat, couldn't ask for more.

congratulations...i was looking at that boat everyday on craigslist trying to figure how to come up with the coin...beautiful boat.

 

[tony]

I just bought a 2000 22 offshore open bow with a 525hp engine. It has the notched transom, I have no issues getting on plan and I am running a labbed bravo 1 26p prop. I'm seeing speeds around 80mph and it handles great at high speeds. The previous owner built this boat new, and told me the stock size tanks are 25 gallon each and they are indeed side tanks. He upgraded mine to 35 gallon when he built mine. As far as this boat being built after a schiada 24. I have to say I was at parker for a week and my buddies dad has a 24 schiada that was parked next to my boat. There are similarities, but I would have to say there are way to many differences to be even be considered being copies of each other. They are really close in overall length, and the bow sits at the same height, but that's about it. The rear is completely different and the freeboard in the middle and especially the rear is defiantly higher on the howard. The howard appears to turn way sharper and tighter. Anybody that has driven a howard 22 offshore can attest for how hard and sharp these boats turn. It throws people from one side of the boat to the other no problem. You also sit up higher in the seat on the howard. There's more of a rake front to back on the schiada and the howard appears to sit flatter. Again these are just my observations. Next time we get our boats together I can provided detailed measurements, or next time I'm in parker I could meet up with somebody else that has a schiada and figure it out. This is a very solid built boat with great craftsmanship. It handles the rough with ease and still get up and goes. Perfect boat, couldn't ask for more.

Thanks for posting that information I've been in a couple of 22xl and thay are by far the best turning outdrive that I've been in I just haven't been over 60mph in one so it's nice to know that at around 80mph theres no handling issues. The 22XL's are very good looking boats and are timless in the looks department in my opinion!!! The only question is does yours have a delta pad on the bottom? Thanks for the post...

 

[GregG]

So Vaughn the ex-fireman just happens to tool up a plug for a new boat and the bottom looks exactly like the 24 Schiada? I've got a 2003 Offshore XL (according to Gene the last one ever built) and have had it sitting next to a 24 Schiada and there is no way Vaughn could have got it that close without actually making a direct copy, in my opinion. Final question (rhetorical). Has any boat builder who splashed someone else's design ever admitted it on an Internet boating forum?

I don't know, Conquest30' also has a Gen 2 Offshore 220 and had his right next to a Schiada 24 as well and feels they are different boats. You say they are the same. WTF do I know. The only way to know for sure is to do what RD said which is to put them on the trailer and start measuring. I'm still sticking with the ex-fireman and his story though. The guy has been out of the boat building business since 1990, do you really think he even cares enough to make that stuff up after 23 years? Come on man. My opinion is that no one has shown that the bottom on a Vaughn 22 is identical to the bottom on a Schiada 24 because no one has ever taken a tape to it. Hell, no one even knows what the dead rise is on the Schiada 24 at the transom end which would be an easy enough start. What has been confirmed is that Howard tooled there first 1992 220 Offshores from a Hocking 22 mold.

Btw - is your 2003 a closed deck and does it have side tanks or a belly tank?

 

[RiverDave]

Greg, you are one ffunny dude if you think you have it all figured out. So Vaughn the ex-fireman just happens to tool up a plug for a new boat and the bottom looks exactly like the 24 Schiada? I've got a bridge for sale if you're interested. I've got a 2003 Offshore XL (according to Gene the last one ever built) and have had it sitting next to a 24 Schiada on at least a few occasions and there is no way Vaughn could have got it that close without actually making a direct copy, in my opinion. Final question (rhetorical). Has any boat builder who splashed someone else's design ever admitted it on an Internet boating forum?

Lol.. Well I didn't want to say it, but there it is..

 

[GregG]

I just bought a 2000 22 offshore open bow with a 525hp engine. It has the notched transom, I have no issues getting on plan and I am running a labbed bravo 1 26p prop. I'm seeing speeds around 80mph and it handles great at high speeds. great craftsmanship.

It looks like the Gen 2 Howard bottoms are stable at way higher speeds than 70mph. Great looking boat btw.

 

[Keys22Howie]

Thank you for all the compliments. I love the boat. But my point is with how hard and sharp this boat turns, and from riding in both boats a few times they have completely different handling characteristics. They are close enough that i would think howard took some of the schiada design and measurements but changed things and made it their own. So my thought would be the howard could possibly be loosely based of the schiada 24 bottom, but there is no way they are exactly the same bottom. But then again that is solely based on looks and handling characteristics, not measurements

 

[Chili Palmer]

I

Would be curious to see good pictures of the bottom of your '02 Howard 220 Offshore Chili if you are near it this weekend. Also check out the make and model of your prop. Does your 220 have dual side tanks or a single belly tank?

I may have found the issue here. I've got a 23 prop, not a 24 that everyone else is running:

Also here is a couple of shots of the delta pad on my boat:

Also, I have a saddle tanks - 25 gallons each. Why if 35 gallon tanks fit didn't Gene just install those and just add it to the base cost of the boat?

 

[2FORCEFULL]

Chili,

I have a 92' 22 and it is an interesting boat. Granted I have a lot more motor, about 700hp currently running a 24P( its a nicely built LS6 with a B&M 250 blower and merlin heads), but here is what I discovered after a bit of trial and error with Bob JeanBlanc of BJ's marine.

Planing, It jumps up pretty good, but I need the drive all the way down, I mean all the way. As it planes I have the trim switch in hand and start pouring on the trim until it has quite a bit. If I don't have the drive ALL the way down it will take a few seconds to roll over. In addition, you have to get on the power pretty decent, If I don't it starts leaning like crazy, perhaps you've seen this as well at lower speed. By the way, speed more than anything is what cures the lean. But if the lean is bothering you as it was me, I swear there were times I thought I was going to drop out of the boat. BJ discovered a significant fix was available by reversing the rotation of the prop. BJ accomplished this, so at the helm I don't put it in reverse to go forward, or visa versa, but god help the bastard that puts a standard rotation prop on this boat and tries to blow out of the marina, lol.

Trim tabs, well I have big dana tabs that are flat to the water, yes we tried them at the angle of the bottom, just don't do it, trust me. I hope BJ will chime in with his 2 cents. Now I barely use tabs other than to balance the load of the passengers. After talking with Gene at Howard, he mentioned "you know, once on plane that boat is very stable, it just doesn't like to go slow...". Well after a few years with it, I absolutely agree. This boat cruises from 40 to 60 like a much bigger hull, it should, according to Gene it was a 24 schiada :eek (seriously look at it next to the ultimate 24 schiada, he wasn't joking), with the rear 2 feet cut off to meet class for the catalina race. However under 30 it wants to fall off plane, at 2500 rmp I can barely keep her on plane. At 3000 rpm Im doing around 40. But be careful over 70, she does chine walk a bit, in fact ask BJ, he was a bit twitchy after we took it past 75. Gene kind of chuckled when I mentioned that, he said, yes you have about all the motor you need in that hull. Yes it will do 80 as is, but it gets interesting!

Anyways I love this boat, and laughed as "player" was looking for his ultimate boat. In this size range the Howard is close to as good as it gets. I grew up on a 22 schiada day cruiser, it was great, but I have to say the Howard is pretty f...ing good.

Oh yeah, enjoy my desert storm pic, courtesy of Pink Taco, I love this boat, even with the pink stripe!

View attachment 287379

thanks for the great honest review.... i tryed a couple of these boats, never put it together that they did the same thing I didn't like about the 24 schiada.... makes sence now,..

 

[tony]

I

I may have found the issue here. I've got a 23 prop, not a 24 that everyone else is running:

Also here is a couple of shots of the delta pad on my boat:

Also, I have a saddle tanks - 25 gallons each. Why if 35 gallon tanks fit didn't Gene just install those and just add it to the base cost of the boat?

And from those pictures theres no delta pad on that boat which is like the one I had for a short time....

 

[2FORCEFULL]

And from those pictures theres no delta pad on that boat which is like the one I had for a short time....

habit of mine is to call the notched trans some , a delta pad, rd always corrects me:rolleyes


i have a 24 bravo if you are in havasu and wanna try it...

 

[Runs2rch]

habit of mine is to call the notched trans some , a delta pad, rd always corrects me:rolleyes


i have a 24 bravo if you are in havasu and wanna try it...

24 B1 should run nicely

 

[2FORCEFULL]

I

I may have found the issue here. I've got a 23 prop, not a 24 that everyone else is running:

Also here is a couple of shots of the delta pad on my boat:

Also, I have a saddle tanks - 25 gallons each. Why if 35 gallon tanks fit didn't Gene just install those and just add it to the base cost of the boat?

is the 23 slipping?? or too much bite...

whats the w. o, t. numbers??? ive had pretty good luck with those solas

 

[2FORCEFULL]

one other thing i wanted to mention, those boats sit bow high, and have the feel that they are running bow up...

have someone video the boat getting on plane and running cruise speed, i was really surprised at how wet I was running when I thought it was aired out...

 

[Chili Palmer]

habit of mine is to call the notched trans some , a delta pad, rd always corrects me:rolleyes


i have a 24 bravo if you are in havasu and wanna try it...

Steve, I appreciate the offer, but we'll be at the lower end of Havasu today and we're heading out around 1:00 today since my youngest (15) starts school tomorrow.

My boat doesn't have any serious lean issues, but does lean a little under way that can be corrected with the trim tabs.

And as was stated before, you must have the drive down all the way when you take off or you'll just sit and "spin your wheels" and go nowhere.

All in all, I love this boat, it runs so much better than my previous boat ran (Howard 22 Sport), but then again, it's got a completely different hull design and a big block engine.

The more I drive this boat I'm familiarizing myself with the way it differs from my last boat. And that's a good thing.

 

[GregG]

Chili, really nice offer from 2FF to try out the Bravo 1 4 Blade 24. My opinion with a 23 pitch wheel and the 425HP HO package I think you may want to drop down one pitch and try a 22. Now that I know you came off a 22 Sport, you are probably just adapting to the very different bottom on the 220 Offshores. The 22 Sport was 18 degrees I believe and was designed more as a ski boat. The transom notch that you show the picture of on your Gen 2 hull was added by Howard to the 220 Offshores in 1997 and beyond to help run a slightly higher X dimension and provide better handling at higher speeds. I had a 21' Superboat (actually two over time) with the same 22 degree dead rise. When I sold that particular boat, the new owner wanted to experiment and added a notch to it and found that the handling improved versus the older bottom. The other thing your '02 Offshore 220 could have is a true Delta Pad. However, the Delta Pad as I remember on the Offshores are actually very unique and located forward on the hull. Most pads will terminate at the transom but as you see your hull holds its 22 degree V right back to the Notch. If you look at the front of the hull instead of the back then you should be able to take a picture of that pad if it exists. If you DO NOT have that pad on your '02 I would be surprised and that would indicate Howard maybe built three Generations of the 220 Offshore. Here is a picture of my Ultra's bottom. J West used a small keel notch that makes the transition into the pad. I'm not sure how Howard handled the transition on the Gen 2 Offshores. Thanks for the clear pics btw :thumbup:

 

[tony]

I hope chili would take a picture of the keel of the boat my 99 didn't have a delta pad it did have a notched transom but no delta pad.. I don't know why a delta pad would end before the transom..

 

[RiverDave]

I hope chili would take a picture of the keel of the boat my 99 didn't have a delta pad it did have a notched transom but no delta pad.. I don't know why a delta pad would end before the transom..

It wouldn't...

 

[GregG]

I hope chili would take a picture of the keel of the boat my 99 didn't have a delta pad it did have a notched transom but no delta pad.. I don't know why a delta pad would end before the transom..

I'm sure RD is right but I always thought there was a flat spot Delta Pad on the keel line of the Gen 2 Offshore 220's at some point. If the keel starts at the bow as a sharp "V", continues under the buckets coming to a sharp "V", and ends at the transom Notch in a sharp "V" then I am wrong and stand corrected.

 

[Chili Palmer]

is the 23 slipping?? or too much bite...

whats the w. o, t. numbers??? ive had pretty good luck with those solas

I ran it today wide open, trimmed out and it ran up to 4600 rpm at 65 on the speedo (60 mph on the iPhone GPS app).

I hope chili would take a picture of the keel of the boat my 99 didn't have a delta pad it did have a notched transom but no delta pad.. I don't know why a delta pad would end before the transom..

I wish I had service at Havasu Springs, I would have taken a pic under the hull to see if I do had a "delta pad". I didn't pull my phone out until I got home and was waiting in line at In-N-Out.

Oh well, I'll be back out there in a couple of weeks - I'll check it out then.

 

[GregG]

I ran it today wide open, trimmed out and it ran up to 4600 rpm at 65 on the speedo, 60 mph on the iPhone GPS app

You are getting to your answer. The 496HO 425HP motor has a RPM limiter set at 5150 revs. I would prop it to 4900-5000 at WOT and see how your hole shot improves also.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

I ran it today wide open, trimmed out and it ran up to 4600 rpm at 65 on the speedo (60 mph on the iPhone GPS app).




I wish I had service at Havasu Springs, I would have taken a pic under the hull to see if I do had a "delta pad". I didn't pull my phone out until I got home and was waiting in line at In-N-Out.

Oh well, I'll be back out there in a couple of weeks - I'll check it out then.

hit me up when you come out, best way I've found is to try a different prop and see what dirrection it takes you...
i just went through this with my 240 hallett.... I think the solas are more true to pitch
then bravo's ... i was at R & R with Kevin , we fould that my bravo props were all over the place when he checked pitch

i just went from a 26 bravo to a 26 solas,, it's a whole different boat now,...

only bad was its a little slower getting on plane... but it did it at 2000 rpms,

one thing for sure the solas have way more bite...

the other thing I was gonna try was vent holes,... maybe start with 1/4'' holes in front of the blade to slip it a little ...

the huge differance was the prop has no defuser ring..... boat just rides softer...
no more bow steer.... no more side to side harsh rocking....
you can let go of the steering wheel and it tracks dead on... before it would have been suicide

 

[hallett21]

hit me up when you come out, best way I've found is to try a different prop and see what dirrection it takes you...
i just went through this with my 240 hallett.... I think the solas are more true to pitch
then bravo's ... i was at R & R with Kevin , we fould that my bravo props were all over the place when he checked pitch

i just went from a 26 bravo to a 26 solas,, it's a whole different boat now,...

only bad was its a little slower getting on plane... but it did it at 2000 rpms,

one thing for sure the solas have way more bite...

the other thing I was gonna try was vent holes,... maybe start with 1/4'' holes in front of the blade to slip it a little ...

the huge differance was the prop has no defuser ring..... boat just rides softer...
no more bow steer.... no more side to side harsh rocking....
you can let go of the steering wheel and it tracks dead on... before it would have been suicide

2ff have you tried a prop with over hub exhaust like the trophy plus? Has no diffuser ring but with the over hub exhaust it lets you spin the wheel up faster and get the boat to roll over quick. Looking at the prop you just tried it has very similar shape. Carries the bow well too!!

 

[Crazyhippy]

2ff have you tried a prop with over hub exhaust like the trophy plus? Has no diffuser ring but with the over hub exhaust it lets you spin the wheel up faster and get the boat to roll over quick. Looking at the prop you just tried it has very similar shape. Carries the bow well too!!

Kevin will take care of him. He knows his stuff better than any prop guy I have ever met. :thumbup::thumbup:

 

[hallett21]

Kevin will take care of him. He knows his stuff better than any prop guy I have ever met. :thumbup::thumbup:

:thumbsup

 

[2FORCEFULL]

2ff have you tried a prop with over hub exhaust like the trophy plus? Has no diffuser ring but with the over hub exhaust it lets you spin the wheel up faster and get the boat to roll over quick. Looking at the prop you just tried it has very similar shape. Carries the bow well too!!

my prop is pretty much dead on for what i want it to do, as mention, might be 1 size big

but that was in extreme heat and humitity....

the bravo get out of the hole quicker... but need to spin up to do it

the solas roles over at slower rpm, but takes a bit longer to do it..

the solas is im sure a rev 4 copy with out the vents...

 

[BajaMike]

I ran it today wide open, trimmed out and it ran up to 4600 rpm at 65 on the speedo (60 mph on the iPhone GPS app).

With full gas and beer and ice chests and full of people, on a hot day, you should be able to easily get to 5000 rpm. You are over propped. This is why it is slow to plane. You need a lower prop.

Being over propped is very hard on your engine.

 

[2FORCEFULL]

With full gas and beer and ice chests and full of people, on a hot day, you should be able to easily get to 5000 rpm. You are over propped. This is why it is slow to plane. You need a lower prop.

Being over propped is very hard on your engine.

he might need to just trim up more though, when you first drive those they seem like you are driving bow up when you are plowing....

 

[Chili Palmer]

With full gas and beer and ice chests and full of people, on a hot day, you should be able to easily get to 5000 rpm. You are over propped. This is why it is slow to plane. You need a lower prop.

Being over propped is very hard on your engine.

I'm being dense here, so I should be running a 22 prop and not stepping up to a 24?

Let me see if I understand this correctly - a numerically smaller numbered prop will give me more grunt out of the hole, but I will lose it on the top end. And a numerically larger prop will take longer to plane, but will give me a faster top end?

So being that my boat doesn't plane until around 2300 rpm, a 22 prop would bring me on plane faster? Is this because the engine would rev faster, therefore bringing me up on plane faster? Much like a numerically higher gear ratio?