Honest truth about Commander Boats

[Tomale]

I'm looking to buying another boat. Its been bout 4 yrs since Ive owned one. I found a 1990 Commander 21ft. closed bow jet and Im going to go check it out in the next couple of days. I've always heard bad things about Commander, but I wanna know why people have so many bad comments about them. Does anyone have anything good to say about them? This isnt my first rodeo, I've had two boats prior. So please keep the Sucks out as much as possible, and if possible give me some good opinions

 

[Ibeplumbing]

I don't get the hate on them. Sure, there are better brands out there. But I feel like for what you pay, you get a solid boat. We had a 1988 21ft with a 350 merc/alpha combo. We had it from 1995-2008, had over 700 hours on it. Took it everywhere from Elsinore to Powell. Most of the hours came on havasu and Parker. Worked great for what we did and never stranded us or fell apart. We eventually up sized to a 25 ft shockwave as budget allowed, but we had a great experience with that boat. Also have friends who still have their mid 90's to early 2000's 21 and 23fters which are still in great shape and they are totally happy with them. You don't have to have a dcb to have a good time

 

[Sharpy]

I'm looking to buying another boat. Its been bout 4 yrs since Ive owned one. I found a 1990 Commander 21ft. closed bow jet and Im going to go check it out in the next couple of days. I've always heard bad things about Commander, but I wanna know why people have so many bad comments about them. Does anyone have anything good to say about them? This isnt my first rodeo, I've had two boats prior. So please keep the Sucks out as much as possible, and if possible give me some good opinions

Is that Boaters Outlet in Upland?

 

[HavasuHaulin]

Buy what you like and can afford, don't worry about what the other people say, Commander sold a lot of boats...

 

[Wheeler]

Buy what you like and can afford, don't worry about what the other people say.

With hair like this, I'm sure he don't care.



Welcome back Tom! :thumbup:

 

[28Eliminator]

Friend of mine bought a new 25' commander in 93 or 94.. Ish. He's got 1400 hrs on it... Been a great boat.

 

[throttle]

there have been many sold, some hot and cold stories. find a boat that makes you happy.

2 more cents...
lake test it
have someone give it a look
if it leans to one side, then add concrete to other side to balance it out

 

[Vmjtc3]

Buy what you like and can afford, don't worry about what the other people say, Commander sold a lot of boats...

What he said^^^^^^^^
Just judge the boat for it's own merit. If its solid, motor and jet check out, if the price is right buy it. I would never buy or not buy a boat based on name, every boat manufacturer built some turds, and some gems.........

 

[JB in so cal]

He's got a commander and I think he's fond of it:cool

 

[throttle]

Is that Boaters Outlet in Upland?

if it is, you might wanna make sure the boat is actually there.

 

[Tomale]

Yes it's the one from boaters outlet in Upland.

Wheeler thanks for the pic

 

[USCFAN]

RD should be along soon to give his opinion about Commanders. If my memory serves me correct, I believe he refers to them as "shit boxes".

 

[rush1]

I have an 89 commander Berkeley jet and love it, it's not the fastest but it's not the slowest, it rides nice and is reliable what more can you ask for its a 454 Hardin marine set up with a killer Sony stereo

 

[LLGirl]

We had a 2000 Commander 2100LX jet from 2004 until about two months ago. It was a great boat, we never had any problems with it. We only sold it because we now boat on Havasu and wanted a bigger boat. If we were still on the lower river, we'd still have it.

 

[Advantage 1]

if it is, you might wanna make sure the boat is actually there.

:thumbsup Right. I thought I saw this in Parker last weekend

 

[JL2Party]

I don't think it was as much the boat as it was the owner of Commander. Bought a boat from Commander and the boat was great, it was all the false promises and bull shit I got from the owner of Commander that made me never go back.

 

[duck660]

Had an 1989 21' Commander that was a solid, fun boat. No complaints about at all. Served us well. `

 

[Bobby V]

I don't think it was as much the boat as it was the owner of Commander. Bought a boat from Commander and the boat was great, it was all the false promises and bull shit I got from the owner of Commander that made me never go back.

I heard the same. Think his name was Si.

 

[ka0tyk]

whats it got for rigging, motor, gauges, stereo, place diverter, etc? how are the stringers, floor, seat frames? id be more worried about all that than the name on the side of the boat. a 21 jet isnt gonna break any speed records so as long as it fits your needs and has enough room for the family go for it.

what else are you looking at 21' wise? cole, howard, schiada, hallett, bahner, eliminator, yadda yadda? stuck on a jet?

 

[Ziggy]

I've had two, both from brand new.
First one had 10 yrs and sold for $800 less than I paid new. 1994 20' open bow jet, sunstreeker. 454 hardin, berkley. Spent more time in the lower river area back then.
Second boat is coming up on its 11th birthday. I have replaced one gauge that stuck and retightened the front seat bolts once. Its a 2004 23LX with a 6.2/Bravo.
Not the fastest but it does just fine. DaytonaBabe has been in it a few times, ask her unbiased opinion of its ride.
.
One of the knocks it gets is they use some wood screws where some may have used through-bolts. RD loves that one...lol Funny thing is the only screws that have come loose were the through-bolts on the seats and even that took better than 9 years to happen.
.
I use the boat and beach it all the time just being mindful of bigger rocks. Bilge stays dry as popcorn unless I use the onboard floor coolers that drain into bilge.

 

[LowRiver2]

My old neighbor sold his original 1989 21 ft/small block commander with Alpha drive, 400 hours for $5K last summer, any Parker folks from Rio Del would remember the red/white/blue one of Santa Fe auto salvage owner...
Thing was in great shape, as was another friends late 90's 21. The second friend went up to a Commander 28ft. cat. If you ever see "cooling process" on the water, ask the owner about all the BS issues he has had with it in the rear of the hull and follow up years back with SI.

Commander 21's are not much worse than any of the other bigger builders in the 90's, should be fine. I'd test a 205 Carrera Elite if you are looking at jets, there is a difference in ride, on plane time for jet applications and should be in similar price range FWIW.

 

[ScreaminSeaman]

I owned their 26 signature built it from scratch and cust built it to match my truck then for sema and magazine shoots. The boat itself was great for about 2 years then things fell apart fast. And if you don't know me I am VERY OCD about my toys. After realizing that driving the boat all the way back to get fixed it was easier to do myself or have a local shop do it. My biggest complaint about Commander is the people who work there and own it. Afterall we are not just buying a boat we are buying a name and what comes with that is the customer service. The build process with them was the worst I have ever gone through and I have built 4 boats from different manufactures. I could never get anyone on the phone or get an answer so I had to make weekly trips to perris to check on them. Things weren't built as promised either. My experience was not the best there and yes I only spent 70k on a good sized boat but had I realized 5-10 more and got way better product then I would have. Lesson learned.

The boat you are looking at is older so you probably won't have to deal with the company and many of the boat in the early years that I've seen seem to be better builds than new ones. Good luck either way but my advice is always have a used boat inspected/surveyed.

 

[RiverDave]

RD should be along soon to give his opinion about Commanders. If my memory serves me correct, I believe he refers to them as "shit boxes".

I've had two, both from brand new.
First one had 10 yrs and sold for $800 less than I paid new. 1994 20' open bow jet, sunstreeker. 454 hardin, berkley. Spent more time in the lower river area back then.
Second boat is coming up on its 11th birthday. I have replaced one gauge that stuck and retightened the front seat bolts once. Its a 2004 23LX with a 6.2/Bravo.
Not the fastest but it does just fine. DaytonaBabe has been in it a few times, ask her unbiased opinion of its ride.
.
One of the knocks it gets is they use some wood screws where some may have used through-bolts. RD loves that one...lol Funny thing is the only screws that have come loose were the through-bolts on the seats and even that took better than 9 years to happen.
.
I use the boat and beach it all the time just being mindful of bigger rocks. Bilge stays dry as popcorn unless I use the onboard floor coolers that drain into bilge.

You guys crack me up.. LOL You make it sound like all the guys with the Hallett's and Schiada's all stop and give each other high fives once they get around the corner of the cove.

Some of you guys (not necessarily the two I quoted) are also under the impression that it's all about a "name." As in boat A with a good name costs more, but it's just the name, and then there's that "Who cares what people say" buy what you like crowd as well..." Like people are actually picking the brands based upon the idea of it being a status symbol?

If you want the truth here it is.. The "name" or reputation of a manufacturer isn't derived from a bunch of guys getting together and being brand loyal. The names of the top tier builders is earned from years or even decades (or longer) of putting out top quality products. The names of the lower end guys comes from lower end rigging, shitty tooling, unhappy customers, crazy shady stories in business practices etc..

Of all the shit I'd likely sell out on because I'm more of a board owner now then a poster like before.. This particular topic isn't one of them. I used to read it all the time, and still do read it occasionally on here where some guy will say "I got the same thing as that guy, but just saved 30,000." No... No ya didn't. You didn't get the same thing as that guy, that's why it cost 30,000 less.

NOW STICK WITH ME HATERS, because I'm about to say something that should be embossed on your foreheads.. LOL

In terms of resale value, the lower tier mfg's are almost impossible to beat. They don't cost as much going in, and you get a lot going out. In some cases you can purchase one new, run it for a season or two and trade them into the mfg for almost exactly what you paid on a new one again! So there is some major upsides to going with a cheaper boat up front.. That being the BIGGEST upside.

Now for a quick blip on the upper end mfg's.. The resale value on the higher end boats is usually shit comparatively. Guess what.. The resale value on a BMW, Mercedes is shit too. As a matter of fact generally the higher up you go on that ladder the worse the resale gets. Go drive a Ferrari off the lot and bring it back an hour later and see what you'll get for it.

So lets talk about some of the differences between what makes a lower tier boat, vs an medium or upper tier boat. It starts with basic things like materials and quality control. Jim Cole used to say 'If there's splatter paint on the transom they are hiding something." That's not necessarily true on all accounts, but it brings up a point. In the case of a lower tier builder they for the most part don't give a shit. If they are running short on marine grade plywood, send the guys down to the store to buy some regular plywood and keep things moving. Or in some cases, they would just use plywood to begin with.. Splatter paint it (Hey the paint will keep the water off of it right?) and nobody will know the difference!

Lets talk about a single bolt through the transom..

Lower Tier MFG - Step one drill hole. Step 2 Insert bolt with silicone.
Medium MFG - Step one drill hole. Step 2 resin hole. Step 3 Insert bolt with silicone.
Top Tier MFG - Step one drill hole. Step 2 put a small radius on hole where the gel is to prevent stress cracking in the future. Step 3 smooth the hole via a grinder. Step 4 resin the hole and wait for resin to completely dry. Step 5 Insert bolt with silicone..

These are just generalities, and I'm in no way saying every cheaper mfg does things one way, and every top mfg does it the other way.. But I am saying if you ever pull a bolt out of the transom of a DCB, you're going to see what I described in the upper end of things, and if you ever pull a bolt out of a commander you're going to see what I described on the lower end of things. It's fairly obvious that one takes considerably more time and skill.

People can say "I got 1000 hours out of my boat." Well no shit.. Most the boats are running traditional Merc packages, and more to the point most the lower end boats are running low HP traditional merc packages. That really doesn't have much to do with the actual quality of the build. When that standard 3 point was installed, was it installed into whatever was on sale that weekend? Or was it installed in hand picked kiln dried doug fir stringers? Or was it installed into a new woodless composite? Did they make their own motor mounts to strengthen things up? Or in the case like the new Nordics did they actually bandsaw up a complete billet cradle for the front of the motor? Ever heard of a drive alignment? It's part of your annual service.. Go ask the mechanics, which brands of boats typically need to have the drives aligned every year? Which brands of boats never move? Interesting statistic - In all the boats Schiada has built and serviced for their customers since Lee took it over, Lee has never once seen a drive come out of alignment. What does that mean? Well if you are asking ole RD "It means when you use quality shit, and then through bolt the fuck out of it things don't move."

When you open an engine hatch and you see battery boxes half over hanging the stringer being held in by 4 lag bolts on one side it just kind of makes ya think.. When you're buddy the trailer builder is laughing over beers and telling you how they just built this trailer for a lower tier builder, and they measured the tunnel and built the trailer. When they set the boat on the trailer it was crooked, and it took them a minute to figure out that one of the tunnels is an inch and a half deeper then the other side of the boat!! Then it makes ya wonder how much time they really spent on tooling and trying to get it perfect.

There's nothing wrong with a cheaper boat! In many cases there is a lot of upsides to them (resale, entry level pricing.. and for some crazy reason a lot of the time they hold up a long time with little damage even after being abused), but you can't take the mindset of "Baddest mofo on the water, and I just saved 30K over that one" like you are in on some kind of industry secret that nobody else knows about.. LOL That has been a major source of frustration between me and Steve in the past.

The guys with the top tier boats aren't driving around the corner and giving each other high fives.. At the same time though, speaking for myself, I know what a hyndai looks like, what a honda looks like, and what a BMW looks like, and a Mercedes, or in the case of DCB's what a Ferrari looks like. It is irritating as shit when someone with a Chevy comes up and starts explaining to me how it's all just stupid names, and they bought a Ferrari minus the badges. How narcissistic do you have to be to actually take the mindset that somehow someway everyone else is that dumb that they didn't know about this Industry secret, and you're the only guy that figured it out. Might be easier to just realize it's a Chevy.

That's the truth as far as new builds / new boats is concerned..

Tomale, it's an old jetboat. It isn't gonna matter what it says on the side of it. Odds are in time you will likely fix or replace anything that's broken or subpar. If the price is right and you like the hull shape, I say go for it. To me (so long as the hull was solid) I wouldn't care what brand it was.. I'd run it and then in the winter pick out somethings that start changing them and upgrading them. Including taking everything that is drilled through the transom, and cleaning it up, resin the holes etc..

RD

 

[Tomale]

DAMMITTT HE SOLD IT. LMFMAO

 

[RiverDave]

Ya know I spent quite a bit of time on my old school somewhat humerous post and not one person even nibbled on it. No spit the hook.. No nada. Lol.

I need a new screen name..

 

[ka0tyk]

Ya know I spent quite a bit of time on my old school somewhat humerous post and not one person even nibbled on it. No spit the hook.. No nada. Lol.

I need a new screen name..

Tom Brown is taken...

 

[spectras only]

Quote by Dave; "Top Tier MFG - Step one drill hole. Step 2 put a small radius on hole where the gel is to prevent stress cracking in the future. Step 3 smooth the hole via a grinder. Step 4 resin the hole and wait for resin to completely dry. Step 5 Insert bolt with silicone".



Dave, that's how I redone the transom on my chitty old boat but went further. Installed skinny 'O' rings behind the flange on the exh tips to make an even better seal. Does DCB do that?

Look how many effin holes are for equipments in a twin engined boat! They're all resin filled now. Bilge is bone dry at all times.
One thing I hate about my boat is the excecution in wiring that I'll deal with one day. It's a bird's nest behind the helm.Could easily rip all that out and just use the two Smart Craft gauges having a clean look.

 

[RiverDave]

Quote by Dave; "Top Tier MFG - Step one drill hole. Step 2 put a small radius on hole where the gel is to prevent stress cracking in the future. Step 3 smooth the hole via a grinder. Step 4 resin the hole and wait for resin to completely dry. Step 5 Insert bolt with silicone".



Dave, that's how I redone the transom on my chitty old boat but went further. Installed skinny 'O' rings behind the flange on the exh tips to make an even better seal. Does DCB do that?

I'm not sure that the o-rings would be a good idea if you don't have a groove cut into the hole or the mating part.. Transoms of boats aren't perfectly flat, and you might have created a leak point. I will say I always kind of wondered why they didn't put a little groove on the backsides of stringer washers for that purpose though so you could use a traditional o-ring.

RD

 

[spectras only]

I chamfered the holes on the outside surface of the fiberglass so the 'O' rings would bed in it being squashed anyway, plus I used some silicon on the flange as well. No way water would pass by. Besides the inside of the hole is resin filled.:thumbup:

 

[RiverDave]

I chamfered the holes on the outside surface of the fiberglass so the 'O' rings would bed in it being squashed anyway, plus I used some silicon on the flange as well. No way water would pass by. Besides the inside of the hole is resin filled.:thumbup:

Was it resined before you started?

 

[spectras only]

No, it wasn't.The transom was pretty solid before I dismantled the hole thing due to a mishap hitting a log, braking the drive hat. Upon removal of the drives, I've noticed discoloration in the drive openings with only slim gel coating in the cutout [ remember the boat was built in 1990] so I decided doing the resto my way. Rest of the boat is pretty stout, built with inner liner and everything through bolted with s/s fittings. The bolster seats have s/s inserts in the wood, seats mounted using machine bolts to attach to the s/s legs. The s/s legs were screwed to the floor so it wasn't up to snuff in my book, so I made large s/s plates with number of screws to spread the load and bolt them through holding the seats. I could have drilled some inspection holes to access under the floor using through bolt method but the bolsters seem to be holding rock solid, running rough in the ocean most of the time.

 

[Dalton]

Havnt seen it in person yet by my friend says it runs and rides great, and to me the boat is beautiful, love the over all design, reminds me of a Carrera but maybe slightly shallower, which I like.

 

[HALLETT BOY]

quote by Dave :There's nothing wrong with a cheaper boat! In many cases there is a lot of upsides to them (resale, entry level pricing.. and for some crazy reason a lot of the time they hold up a long time with little damage even after being abused), but you can't take the mindset of "Baddest mofo on the water, and I just saved 30K over that one" like you are in on some kind of industry secret that nobody else knows about.. LOL That has been a major source of frustration between me and Steve in the past.
This was hilarious , I knew exactly who you were talking about before I ever got to the end of the sentence !

 

[Abc123]

It looks like you're thinking about buying a boat from Ted. RUN!!!!!!

 

[28Eliminator]

Ya know I spent quite a bit of time on my old school somewhat humerous post and not one person even nibbled on it. No spit the hook.. No nada. Lol.

I need a new screen name..

I happen to like Splatter Paint Dave

 

[Ziggy]

Ya know I spent quite a bit of time on my old school somewhat humerous post and not one person even nibbled on it. No spit the hook.. No nada. Lol.

I need a new screen name..

nibble.
I decided on small power 6.2 back in 2003 because I speculated rising gas prices not because they recommended it. Gas was still under $2 when I built the boat.
The attention to detail you bring up most people don't give a shit about. Better long term? sure, but it doesn't make it perform differently? Not really.
After 2 seasons my drive needed aligning, rather expectable.. Since then it has been checked but not needed another.
.
In today's market I would highly consider a new Hyundai Equus over a BMW or Benz. A majority of people won't keep it long enough to notice the long term quality difference and even then every kind of vehicle will require some sort of servicing and repairs. Guess which will be less expensive to fix back up?
.
Customer service: You'd think every make would want to do its best when a potential buyer walks into the store. Most of the 6 or 7 we went to did leave a good impression . One in particular did just the opposite, we felt like we had been rushed out as fast as possible, couldn't or wouldn't answer any questions. Completely turned us off of the brand so many of you guys bow too. Si and his staff made us feel welcome. I know a few who did not get along well with Si but I feel that was more a personality conflict than anything else. Business is business, he chose not to be cordial to those few. I did the same when running my dealership. Not much different than you Dave banning someone stirring up shit.
.
Bottom line is still, Buy what you feel comfortable with and makes you happy. But, if you're worried about what your neighbors think buy an Eliminator/dcb.....or a BMW.

 

[FreeBird236]

For $340,000.00 I wonder what technique DCB uses to mount those plastic drive reservoirs on the transom...

 

[t&y]

Ya know I spent quite a bit of time on my old school somewhat humerous post and not one person even nibbled on it. No spit the hook.. No nada. Lol.

I need a new screen name..

Sorry, hang on.... You suck Dave. It it isn't a Schiada you talk down about. What a hater!

 

[RiverDave]

For $340,000.00 I wonder what technique DCB uses to mount those plastic drive reservoirs on the transom...

I for the life of me don't know why a couple of people have said something about that.. It's an option, if you want it upgraded pay for the billet drive reservoirs and they'll put em on.. LOL What is it 150.00 ea or something?

Sorry, hang on.... You suck Dave. It it isn't a Schiada you talk down about. What a hater!

Not sure I follow. I think you were saying if it isn't a Schiada I talk down about it? Not the case at all, if that's what you were trying to say.. There's always Howard and DCB..

RD

 

[boatnam2]

The old owner back in the day was a straight shister, he made the devil look honest!

 

[RiverDave]

The old owner back in the day was a straight shister, he made the devil look honest!

Speaking of the Devil... That 2750 Lavey you had was so fucking clean you could perform major surgeries in the engine bay without fear of infection!

RD

 

[boatnam2]

Speaking of the Devil... That 2750 Lavey you had was so fucking clean you could perform major surgeries in the engine bay without fear of infection!

RD

Yea it was lol! You seen my ole party prowler running havasu anymore?

 

[RiverDave]

Yea it was lol! You seen my ole party prowler running havasu anymore?

I saw it a few times after you had it, but I haven't seen it recently that I can remember..

RD

 

[FreeBird236]

I for the life of me don't know why a couple of people have said something about that.. It's an option, if you want it upgraded pay for the billet drive reservoirs and they'll put em on.. LOL What is it 150.00 ea or something?




RD

Maybe it's just me, but at that price it shouldn't be an option:rolleyes

 

[RiverDave]

Maybe it's just me, but at that price it shouldn't be an option:rolleyes

I'm sure you could use some negotiating skills and get them thrown in if ya tried.. LOL The customer didn't ask for them, he doesn't get em. Simple as that? My boat doesn't have them.. But it will on MONDAY!! LOL

RD

 

[dribble]

To me if you want to really see how much care different builders use when rigging a boat, just looking under the dash will give you a real good idea..

 

[RiverDave]

To me if you want to really see how much care different builders use when rigging a boat, just looking under the dash will give you a real good idea..

Used to be that way, but now even the mid level builders are doing some pretty clean wiring jobs, or they are putting solid screwed in panels to cover everything so you can't see it at a glance anymore.

RD

 

[troostr]

Ok, my first boat was a new 97 sun streaker open bow, merc454 and jet. You could stuff more life vests under the front and into the bow than you could carry people. With 10 people, it took the London Jet wake and went airborn - no problem besides the loose nut behind the wheel. Always turn key, and held up well. -To serious 20-ish young dumb abuse at the time and stayed sound through 2 kids into my 30's and sold it 13 years after I bought it for 5k less than I paid for it! I upgraded the stereo, and as mentioned before fixed some wood screws w through bolts and locktite. For how it was never babied on the water (1manshow ans neversatisfied can verify) it was a killer ride! The one you are looking at is a copy of the Carrera hull and is a proven hull design. Don't be scared- buy it. FWIW- I had far less trouble with my Commander then with my Advantage that replaced it.

 

[Paul65k]

Ya know I spent quite a bit of time on my old school somewhat humerous post and not one person even nibbled on it. No spit the hook.. No nada. Lol.

I need a new screen name..

Right.....nothing in a name at all :rolleyes.....................this from the man who's naming his next child Schiada.....nothin in a name at all :cool

 

[RiverDave]

Right.....nothing in a name at all :rolleyes.....................this from the man who's naming his next child Schiada.....nothin in a name at all :cool

LOL..

RD